Tired of Content Grinding? Here's What Actually Works

We're live. Um, hello, hello, Substack! Have you ever thought that you could achieve success without all the usual marketing BS? What about making a difference and running a business with purpose? Are you ready to define success on your terms? Yes? Well, you are in the right place. Today I'm pleased to introduce Scott Perry, a book author previously an akimbo coach, a grandpa, and a dude who likes to run in cemeteries. Scott, welcome to the show.

Shannon, it is always a thrill and a pleasure and a privilege to spend time with you, and now we're going to do it out loud and in public, so who knows what mayhem may ensue.

Who knows? So one of the things that I looked up when I was Googling you was that you write about Funding a— building a business that funds and fits your ideal lifestyle. What's, what's that about?

What that is about is probably what any independent business owner, developer, solopreneur, freelancer, creative imagines. Oh, I'm gonna do my own thing. So that I can live the life that I want to live. And so what you are essentially asking is, how do I do this in a way that helps me make enough money today to do it again tomorrow without sucking my entire— all of my time, energy, and effort? And along the way, you know, you start your business because you know you have some talent, you know you have this difference that only you can make, and in the way that only you can make it. You know there are people out there that need you to show up with the skills and talents you have so that their lives may be enhanced by the difference you can help them make. And then somewhere along the line, we decide that we have— that the only way that this thing is gonna really run or scale or optimize is if we become full-time digital marketers as part of the bargain. And, uh, it's impossible to become the very best in the world at doing what you do in the way only you can do it if you're spending most of your waking hours grinding out content, refining your ideal customer avatar, tweaking your power offer, and trying to plug all the holes in a leaky funnel that will, even when it works, at the very best of its capability is going to be about 6% effective. So would I—

I have like 5 questions from everything that you just said. So, so first of all, because everything that I've read as an author is that like we have to have a platform and you're not going to get traditionally published unless you can show that you're engaged on social media, all that stuff. So I am interested about that and the 6%, and I'm also interested what you mean by The difference you can make, that the difference only you can— I forget how you said it, but you know, the difference you can make that only you can make. And, um, what about those of us that we're like, well, we know we want to make a difference, but we're not exactly sure what only we can do? What about our viewers? Oh, and let's say hi to them really quick. We have Alan, Melanie, Christina, and Vera. Thank you for being here for the conversation, and anybody who listens later.

So you're asking the fundamental question. Like, you know, the first thing is, if you're going to— if you're going to start an endeavor of your own, do you want to play someone else's game on their terms and enroll in a game that you can't win because it's not your game and you have to play it by somebody else's rules? Or do you want to play your game on your terms without compromise? If you're going to choose the later rather than the former, then you're going to have to know who the hell you are. Like, what are your values? What are your guiding principles? What are your non-negotiables? Uh, you're gonna have to know what your actual, uh, innate abilities are, your unique abilities, your— the skills and talents that you bring this unique edge to that nobody else can bring. You're going to have to figure all that out. And the best way to figure it out is to just start doing that work with and for people who already either know, like, and trust you or already asking you for it. Once you have that, then it's, it's how do I get more of the right people? And yes, I have heard that to get a traditional book publishing deal, you have to have 100,000 Instagram followers. Do you know why? Because if 2% of your Instagram followers buy a book, you just barely will make enough sales to be worthwhile to somebody, uh, to a traditional publisher. If that's the game, you— if you want to be a slave to Instagram so that you can have the reputation of being published by Random House or Penguin Books or whoever's still around, Fine, play that game. If you would rather just work on your craft and become the very best writer you can and get better at telling the stories that you want to tell, you can accomplish the same numbers that you would get if you spend all your time building a following on Instagram by just writing for the people that are already interested in hearing from you. And Delight— that's super interesting.

I think— sorry to interrupt, but I think that's super interesting because every author on the planet is like Really? Can we really do that and still make a living?

Why? Well, I can tell you that, uh, I have done that. I mean, I've, I've written a whole bunch of books. None of them have been, uh, Washington Times— or what is it, Washington Times bestseller or, uh, what have you. All of them have sold more than enough copies to keep all of my programs and all the backend offers that I use to actually make a living full, uh, and, and on autopilot. And I didn't have to waste any time trying to, to dance on TikTok or, uh, become a viral Instagram celebrity or any of that. Like, I totally get it if that's, if that's really what you want, if you want to be that, you know, famous per— and I hope it works out for you, but you're playing a lottery. That very few people win, and it's probably not going to be you.

Um, just love it. If you just love dancing on TikTok, then go for it, or Instagram or whatever.

Oh, plenty of people that feel like having whatever, 10,000 people, uh, like their TikTok video feels like success to them. And when you ask them, well, how many of those people bought your book? And they say zero, it's like, okay, well, what are you actually What's the game that you're playing? Are you playing the TikTok dance-a-thon, or are you playing— or dance-off? Are you playing, uh, I am going to become the very best writer that Shannon or Scott or whoever you are can become?

And, and shout out for your, uh, I haven't read your other books, but I did read Intrepid and I loved it. I really, I really loved it. The, the questions and the, the one that stuck with me, as you know, because I've talked about it, is do the hard part first. And my husband has been teasing me because he's like, well, how was your writing today? And I'm like, I got 1,000 words in. And he's like, oh, you did the hard part first. And I'm like, yeah, yes, I did. Yes. So that has become a measure for me of success. And the momentum is very interesting. It's been, it's been really, really good.

Well, so you, you're actually just gave a perfect example of what we're talking about is becoming the best writer that you can become a function of getting 1,000 words a day down, or would you become a better writer by dancing on TikTok and performing on Instagram and trying to trick a bunch of people into giving up their email address to join your list by giving them some sort of bullshit lead magnet that they're never even going to actually look at? I mean, I'm like, when you say you read my book and and loved it, I'm like, that was— for me, that's, that's all I would need to know that I— it was worth it to write a book. Writing a book, as you know, is, is a huge lift. It's a marathon. It's a pain in the ass. It's one of the hardest things you'll ever do. But if I— but I have, you know, before I even launched the book, I had 15 people that had read it and told me how much they had loved it and And they all got featured in the opening credits of the book and the acknowledgments. And that was good enough. I was already winning before the book even got publicly published to the world. And then 100 people bought the book on the day it launched. Is that—

that's huge for indie publishing. That's, that's big.

More than enough. It's more than enough. And that's what you have to decide. Like, what's your real enough number when it like, What's a good enough vision of the life you want to live look like? Does it really mean you have to make $10,000 a month and have a mansion on the beach with the Lamborghini in the driveway? Really? Or do you just want to be able to wake up every day and do whatever the hell you want to do with your time, given that you're going to dedicate a couple hours to doing work that matters with people you care about and make a very good living doing that, more than enough to fund the life? You actually want to live.

So here's a question then that I have for you, like 3 questions. So do you feel like— I feel like that question lands differently with our generation than, say, my grandson. So my grandson lives with us right now. He's 18, and he is so focused, and he's going to do very well, and he's ready, and he's going. And I'm, you know, 55, and I'm like, okay, how much time do we have left? Like, I'm still healthy. Let's go. Let's have fun. Let's get out in the sunshine. And I am curious about this habit that you have of running in cemeteries. I was kind of teasing you at the start, but you post about it and you put pictures of yourself in cemeteries. Tell us about that.

Well, I wrote about why I run at the cemetery at the conclusion of my book Onward. So you can check out the origin story. You can also find it on my Substack publication as one of the articles. But, uh, I guess what's more important than why I run at the cemetery or what, like, why I started is why do I continue to run there? Which is, uh, you know, I turned 60. I think I turned 62 this year. It might be 61. I can't really remember. I'm, I'm still in my young 60s. Early '60s. Um, and, uh, as you say, you know, you get to a certain point, you realize you, you've lived most of your years already and probably, uh, most of your, you know, happiest year or healthiest years, right? And there's still plenty of time.

Yeah, yeah.

And I go, when I go to the cemetery every morning to get, you know, what's now a combined walking and running, uh, 3 miles in, I am at one of the most beautiful places in the county. I mean, I can, I get there and there's usually some fog rolling, you know, that's starting to dissipate. I can see a very extensive view of the Blue Ridge Mountains. On the horizon. Uh, there's, or there's, there's flowering fruit trees right now. There's deer prancing around. Every once in a while I see a red fox or a gray fox or a bear, or, and always deer prancing around. Uh, and then there's these tombstones. So like, there's all the beauty and majesty of nature and just that, you know, the awe and the wonder that just comes from, wow, this is where I live and this is like what I get to see every day. And then there's the tombstones reminding me, and at some point I'm going to be joining my friends underground. And it's a reminder to me, uh, of, you know, what, what the ancients called memento mori, right? Remember that you die. And remembering that I have a finite amount of time left and that nobody is really going to remember me when I'm gone, that, you know, Although personally my life is of the utmost personal significance, and universally, uh, the cosmos considers me one of the most insignificant things there is, and I'm happy holding those two concepts in my head at the same time. Any meaning my life has is going to come from what I do with it today.

Yeah.

And so once I get that exercise in, once I've, you know, cleared my head and done what I can to maintain my, my health and my mobility, uh, I, I go home and I, and I lean in and I start doing the work that matters— work that matters to me, work that matters for the people that I do it for, work that provides me with a sense of fulfillment and significance and meaning. And then when I'm done in a couple hours, my grandkids arrive and I get to do what I really want to do, which is—

and speaking of your grandkids, because I have 5 grandkids, and you say that you're insignificant. I think your spouse, your children, your grandkids, I think there are some folks that would disagree with that and say—

well, I'm saying on a cosmological level.

Yeah, that's fine. You can say it. Each one of us are insignificant and Yes, but you make a big difference within your family, within your circles, within—

yeah, exactly. And that's— and again, it's about defining what's— what is meaningful enough. Meaningful enough to me is being the world's best grandpa. That's it. To my two grandsons. I don't care about the kid next door, you know, his grandpa can do his job. But I want to be the— I want to show up and be there, be present. And, and be a gift to these two young men that are a actual biological legacy that I am a part of.

Um, and so, and so I would say you can't be a gift if you're not alive. So my, my father died when he was 50. We, I actually experienced a lot of, I'm, I'm I can relate to your running in cemeteries because me personally, in our family, we had a lot of death. My dad, my sister, my nephew, my sister's fiancé, in the span of about 15 years. If the phone rang after 10 o'clock, we just didn't want to answer it. In the '90s, it was really rough. And most of my friends had not experienced death. And then so later in years, they're like, oh, oh, I didn't know. Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't there for you. And I'm like, Well, how could you? You don't know. So for, as a grandpa, to be there for those two kids, part of that run is taking care of yourself so that you can watch them get married, watch them graduate high school, watch, you know, like be around.

And I don't, I don't have any desire to rush things when it comes to my ultimate demise. And exactly, I want to, and while with whatever time I have left, I want to be as aware and present. And useful as I can be.

Yes.

And, you know, I, you know, that part of my background is I, I was a musician for almost 30 years, a professional performing musician. That's how I paid the mortgages and the car payments and put kids through college. I started that in my very late 20s mostly because I didn't want to be the age I am now and wonder if I could have ever done it. And along the way, I, I'd learned, like, my job is to just put on the very best show that I can, you know, to help the venues register ring and to make the people that got babysitters and, and are spending money on, on food and drink have a really good time. And I did that with, like, feeling like there was nothing else I ever wanted to do with my life for 25 years before I started to think, oh, maybe there's something else I want to do now. Um, but that would— like, that was enough. Like, I, I was surrounded by people that were getting signed to major record deals and were really becoming big names in the business, and, and that was great. Like, good for them. They all, you know, got something that, again, they, they won the lottery. I won the lottery just by getting away with it for 30 years and being able to maintain a happy marriage and good, you know, educating good kids and, and, and all that sort of thing. That's enough. And I would say that, you know, if, if, uh, if something terrible happened, um, and I wasn't around after tomorrow. I, I feel really good about everything I've already done in my life as a musician, as a community leader, as a father, as a husband, as a grandfather. It will be enough. Like, do I want to be around for— to see my grandkids grow into young men and, and get married and have kids and do all that? Sure. Um, I don't think they're gonna— I don't I don't think they're gonna forget me right away, you know, if I, I don't make it. You know, I've done, I've done enough. I've had enough of an impact. Um, and you can do that in a day. You can do that in a moment. Like, I'm sure you can think back to teachers and, and friends and, and mentors, uh, and people that were an influence in your life. And they, you know, it just takes one person to say one thing that can change and enhance the trajectory of your whole life.

Um, so that makes me think of— so you talk a lot about, uh, be a blessing when you're talking about marketing. So relating that, like, what you just talked about and having that influence, and like, I love it the most when I write something and people write to me. Sometimes, like, my relatives will be like, oh, I read this piece that you wrote, and they didn't comment on it, they didn't like it, they didn't respond to it, but they'll tell me later 'Oh, that was really good timing. I needed to hear that at that time.' And you're like, 'Well, that feels like—' I love that feeling of feeling like you're— the thoughts that you're putting out there are helping somehow. So how do we— how do you do the marketing part, the Be a Blessing marketing, without being weird and salesy? Like, I just had an interaction with somebody I know on Instagram, and she put something on Instagram. I sent her a private message because we're friends, and the question I got back was such a canned question. I was like, oh God, you're trying to get me to buy something. I don't want to. I just wanted to converse. So how do we be a blessing and try to also market what we're doing and stay authentic without being salesy?

Well, we're talking a lot about this, uh, in the recent weeks because the Be a Blessing marketing book is in the works. It will probably be published before the summer is over, and it's, uh, an approach to, uh, promoting your work to the right people and attracting the right customers or clients to your product, service, cause, or idea that does not involve any of the usual digital marketing bullshit. And I'm saying that as someone that was a masterful digital marketer for a number of years. I built a very successful business from a revenue point of view, you know, achieved the coveted $10,000 a month and sustained that for a long time by becoming an expert digital marketer, only to find that I built a business doing work I didn't like with people I didn't care about and spend my time, like 80 or 90% of my time on digital marketing BS, like grinding out content and tweaking my funnel and, uh, dealing with onboarding and refunds and, and people that had buyers from, like, all the things that come along with doing it that way. Um, and I just, in a period of 9 months, after 9 months of what everybody else would have called raging success, I just said, this, I can't do this anymore. And I literally blew up the business. And when I started over, I started over on Substack. I didn't really have an idea yet of what I was, you know, what the business was going to be. I just started writing about things that I cared about, and I, and I was writing to be a blessing. I was writing to be helpful and useful. I was sharing principles and beliefs and strategies that I had honed through all sorts of experiences. In multiple businesses and domains. And over time, just that, by just showing up and being helpful and useful, people started to say, well, I love the way you approach this. How can I work? How can I get more? How can I work with you? Do you have a community? Do you know? And so I just, like, person by person said, well, they would tell me what they wanted help with And I'd say, yeah, I think I could help you with that. Here's what it would look like. Are you interested? And if they said yes, we got going and there was no buyer's remorse or there was no complicated onboarding or no, uh, retention strategy. I just kept showing up and helping them get close, clearer about and closer to what they wanted. And they just kept giving me money. And so over the last 3 years here on Substack, I've been really refining this whole approach so that people can learn how to do it in 90 days as opposed to 9 months or 3 years, which is essentially what it's taken me. Um, but it, it really literally comes down to just be a blessing. Just show up with what you have wherever you are, do what you can with whoever's around, and your people will find you. And the right ones, the ones that need— want that proximity and access that's necessary to catalyze their experience, they'll ask you how they can do that. Or you can lightly invite them, hey, if you want to continue to do this, we can talk about what that might look like. And if you don't, that's fine. Like, it's just like you said, like, there are these ways of doing it that sound like what I'm talking about, but they all are following some sort of script or template or, you know, system that's worked for somebody else in the past, and it doesn't really work for them because you're not the person you bought it from, and it's no longer that time where it worked for that person. And so this is a way— Be a Blessing Marketing is a way that you show up as you are with what you have, do your thing, and trust that your people will find you. Play your game on your terms without compromise, and everything else will work out as a natural occurring side effect of just showing up and actually giving a shit and doing good work with people you actually care about.

Yeah, I do like, I like the way that you have a, um, you have some of your marketing stuff, some of your writings about the marketing, and some of it's the more deeper reflections on the Stoics. That I would not say is related to marketing. It's more just about like that, who you are as a person. Like, I, I love those reflections, and I don't know that that's necessarily teaching people how to market, but it definitely, I think, has drawn in a particular— so just for our viewers, I'm in the Inner Circle. I paid money to be in part of the Inner Circle, and I've been a member since like, uh, December. And what I love the best is that we're all so different The character and the integrity of the people there. So we've got somebody that teaches how to practice music, somebody that's a playwright, somebody that's, um, you know, as a teacher. It's, it's all over the map, but the, that glue that kind of keeps us together is that we all want to make a difference and we all want to have purpose and we want to do it with integrity. So the conversations that you drop into, you don't have to go through, I mean, the usual like if you're at a party and you're having that small chit-chat, small talk, like you don't have to do that. You're like, I know these are my people, we can talk, we can just jump right in and go to, to the good stuff. It's really, it's really remarkable.

Well, I really appreciate that feedback. And, you know, I've been, I've been working on becoming a better community facilitator since 2018. The, the group that you are a part of has literally been together in some way, shape, or form since January of 2018. Um, you know, and in terms of online communities, that's actually a pretty long time. And you just, uh, articulated exactly what I want to accomplish. Like, when you show up for your first call, or when someone invites you to join us as a guest, you should feel like you just found home, like you just found your— yeah, yes. And there's— and when you, when you're surrounded with people that get you and are rowing in a similar direction, even though it might be on a different ship, uh, then you don't have to— like, there's— then you don't have to negotiate all the usual bullshit, and it doesn't feel like an icky networking event when you're actually— or like, or like, or something.

I feel like you have to look a certain way and like, well, I'm really successful. Like, everybody's just like, well, here I am, here's my win, here's my struggle. And then the supporting cheerleading that happens is just— I, I, and I love that nobody there— of course we all like money, we would love more money, but nobody there is like, must get rich at any cost. Money is the only thing. It's like, no, no, no, that's not what it's about. Um, can you believe that we're already to the 27-minute mark?

Of course not. And that was so fast. He was like breathing.

Oh God, it went so fast. So, um, where can people find you? What's the name of your Substack? Um, what, uh, where can people— where can people find you?

Uh, well, you, you used to be able to Google Scott Perry and I was the first person that showed up. And then this, uh, guy from Pennsylvania became a member of the House of Representatives, and this guy started coaching the Knicks, and they both had the same name. And it turns out that politicians and basketball coaches get better Google love than washed-up musicians who are now coaching. Um, but if you go to Creative— if you Google Creative on Purpose or you go to the Creative on Purpose Substack, you will find most everything that we have been talking about is available for absolutely free. And if you want to get in touch with me, I'm very, uh, open to having people reach out by DM or by dropping comments in the, in the articles that I publish every week. Uh, and if you want to hang out with cool people like Shannon, uh, a couple times a week. We do a Monday and Friday On Purpose call. It's 30 minutes to just bookend your week with some insightful conversation that inspires intentional action, that gets you clearer about and closer to whatever it is that you want, uh, in the next chapter of your life.

And I'll put that in the show notes too. I'll put those things in the show notes because it is, it is a great community. Now, now I'm like I know that I can't leave my family now. Forget about Scott Perry, whatever, whatever. He's teaching something, I guess. I don't know.

I got, I gotta talk to my peeps. Well, that's the, the thing about the Monday and Friday calls is the best conversations are the ones that Scott Perry's not a part of, and I'm not a part of.

I'm just joking. The teaching's good too, but I do love the community. Um, so I would like to know what imagine, believe, discover means to you?

Well, I love the question. I love the question. My answer is probably different from other folks that you've talked to in that Imagine is one of my favorite songs from my least favorite Beatle, uh, but it's a song that I repurposed as one of the ukulele numbers in my act, so So if you Google Scott Perry Imagine, or my band at the time was Front Porch Swing Imagine performance, you'll find plenty of performances of me singing John Lennon's Imagine while I bang away at the noblest instrument on the planet, which is the little ukulele. Believe. Well, belief is, um, an interesting word because belief is important. We need to believe in ourselves. That's what trust actually is, is belief in yourself. And most of us believe what we believe simply because we believe it, uh, which is another way of saying we're all kind of delusional. Um, so I think, you know, the, the difference between, um, belief in yourself, which is how you earn the clarity and confidence that you can accomplish the things that you want to accomplish, and believing what you believe simply because you believe it is— um, believing what you believe simply because you believe it is delusional because it feels like certainty and not. Belief in yourself is something that— it's the antidote to the sin of delusion, and it is the beginning of the virtues of receptivity and restraint and responsibility and everything that goes into building a meaningful life, whether that's through a meaningful business or meaningful relationships or whatever, whatever. And then Discover is, is just, it's one of those things that's funny about human beings. We're programmed for novelty. We're programmed to be explorers. We're programmed to be adventurous. We're programmed to seek the edges of our understanding and abilities. And we are also programmed for trying to feel safe and secure by fitting in and doing what's expected. And so, you know, we all go back and forth on that spectrum, like, oh, I got to be safe and sound, and, and I want to know where I stand and what's expected, and I want to stay there. And then there's these things that we also really want to strive for. And just to conclude with your testimony about the community, becoming the kind of person that um, that seeks to discover and seeks the edges of their understanding and ability so that they can be and do more and better for themselves and people they care about. It happens through community. It happens by surrounding yourself with more of the people that get it. Yeah. And spending less time with people that don't get it. I'm not saying ditch all your loser family and friends that, um, aren't seekers and explorers and, and supporting and encouraging your adventures. But you can choose how much time you spend with them. You can choose how much, um, how much, uh, of your energy and your sense of well-being is invested in those people. And come hang out with people like Shannon in the Circle, where you will definitely get all the support you need to, to define what success is on your terms and play your game on your terms. Without compromise in order to accomplish it.

Yes, that— yes, come, come join us. And I don't even get anything extra for saying that.

Well, you get more cool people.

That's true, that's true. Well, um, it's— we're, we're at our 30 minutes. Thank you, um, thank you, thank you so much for your time. And thank you to Alan and Melanie, Christina, Vera, Kyra, Claire, Amanextel, Feed Your Mind, Brian, it's so good to have you here, and everybody else that listens to the replay. Um, and remember to imagine, believe, and discover.

Be well, do good, have fun. Thank you so much, Shannon. Thank you.

Bye.