To Niche Or Not To Niche?

Welcome to Creative on Purpose Live. This is a show that inspires difference makers like you to take intentional action so that you can make a better living and a bigger difference doing work that matters with people you care about. This is a series of broadcasts called Close the Gap, which is intended to help share ideas and promote my upcoming book called Close the Gap: Build a Fulfilling Business That Funds and Fits Your Ideal Lifestyle. It's what I'm billing it as the ultimate guide for solopreneurs to help you clarify your direction, craft your path, and collapse time to target so that you can make a better living and a bigger difference doing work that matters with people you care about. Today we're gonna talk about what the virtues and the perils of niching. This is inspired in part by a lot of things I've been seeing on Substack. Uh, there are, are a number of influencers on Substack that are making these kind of dogmatic statements that if you wanna succeed as a solopreneur, you're going to have to choose a niche and you're going to have to speak to a very specific ideal avatar. Like most dogmatic advice, this kind of advice really just encourages people to act like dogs and promotes something that's not absolutely true. And so what we're gonna discuss today is a little bit of my thinking as to why you may may not want to pick a niche. And I'm gonna kind of really just start with an anecdote from my own personal experience, and then I'll share some examples from what I've seen working with other people or what I've observed just in looking at people whose work I really admire. So when I began my coaching business, it was almost by accident. I had spent a couple of years just talking about things I wanted to talk about on broadcasts like this, oftentimes with other people whose work I admired. And I was blogging about ideas that were interesting to me. Didn't really have any kind of clear offer. Certainly didn't have anything resembling a power offer. And I wasn't really speaking to anybody in particular. I was just sharing things that were interesting to me. I did have a couple of benefits. One of them I would call an authority loop. And that was because I was associated with Seth Godin and Akimbo Workshops as a head coach. I actually had a lot of visibility amongst the kind of people that I like to associate with in terms of just being able to be useful and be helpful to people that were in the Marketing seminar or the Story Skills workshop, the Bootstrappers workshop, the Freelancers workshop, which I head coached for a number of years, and the Creatives workshop, which I also head coach for a number of years. And over time, as I was trying to figure out, like, what am I going to do? Like, how am I going to turn this stuff that I like to write and talk about into a business? Basically, I responded to what people were asking me to help them with, which was, "Hey, you're a great coach. You've coached me in the Akimbo workshops. I would like to hire you as a coach to help me solve whatever problem it is that they wanted me to solve." No ideal avatar. I've worked with all sorts of people, people that were coaches, people that were freelancers, people that were creatives, people that were trying to recover from personal challenges around, uh, relationships and divorce, or just trying to figure out what they were going to do with the rest of their lives. And when I got started, I simply put an offer on a Google Doc. With a PayPal link and said, hey, you know, I reached out to people that have been saying, I'd like for you to coach me. I said, here's a coaching offer. I don't know if it's going to work, but I'm— you tell me that you want to work with me, you want me to be your coach. Here's a very affordable offer. These are the terms. Here's the PayPal link. If you want me to coach you, just sign up now and I'll coach you. And I actually began my business That simple. No power offer, no niche, no ideal avatar, just helping people out who had reached out to me. So what was actually in play here was a positioning move, and I wasn't positioning, positioning myself around a specific avatar, a specific, uh, domain or business or, uh, anything else. I was simply positioning myself based on some authority I had based on my association with Akimbo Workshops, the trustworthiness, the goodwill, and the reputation I had built within that domain, and some excellent word of mouth. And I created a very profitable, sustainable business. And then I listened to all the people, all the coaches, all the gurus, all the digital marketers that told me, hey, if you really want this business to take off, you're gonna have to pick a niche. And here's what happened. I picked a niche of coaches because I was coaching and had built a profitable, thriving business as a coach. I thought, well, I'll just teach other coaches how to build a profitable, thriving business by showing them how to do the kind of things that I had done to build that business. And by choosing a niche as kind of a business coach to coaches, I found myself talking a lot about things that I don't generally like to talk too much about, which is, you know, the tech— technical elements of creating a blog, building a website, starting a YouTube channel, a podcast, creating content for social media, and so forth. And ended up working with people basically that were in a lot of pain and looking for a solution, some— something that would alleviate that pain through tool-based, technical, or maybe strategic ways of fixing that problem. But here's the thing: you can't fix an adaptive problem, a behavioral problem, with technical solutions. So I found myself at odds with the kind of work I was doing, meaning I'm doing work I don't really like to do with people that I'm having a really difficult time connecting with and serving in a way that was helpful. And so even though niching helped me make a lot of money really quickly, because that is a benefit of niching, is that when you are specific about the, the avatar and the problem that you solve, it is a way of talking directly to people that are in a lot of pain and willing to pay someone to help alleviate that pain. But it was— it painted me into a corner in terms of doing work I didn't really care that much about with people I didn't really like that much. So I ditched that business, and I went back to just talking about things that I like to talk about, sharing a lot of principle-based ideas around what it means to be a thriving human being and build a thriving business of some sort. And Lo and behold, over time, again, people were coming to me with all sorts of problems saying, hey, here's what's going on in my life. Here's the problem I have. Here's the problem I have with my business. Is that something that you can help me with? And using just fundamental ideas like reasoning from first principles and system reliability and this idea of microsipping, I was able to determine whether or not I could help them if I said I could help them. I helped them based on all the principles that I had learned through my own experience and through the, the study I did with other mentors. So just a cautionary tale. Nicheing is— this is the fundamental takeaway— nicheing is a marketing tactic and tactical solutions to adaptive problems. Are not usually going to be the best way to solve the problem that you have. The best way that you can establish yourself as a coach or a freelancer or a creative is to get really good at your craft. And in order to do that, you have to spend a lot more time practicing your craft than you do learning marketing tactics and implementing marketing tools and tactics. So niching is not a fundamental principle of marketing. It's not something that everyone has to have. It's not a foundational thing that everybody has to, to start with. You can start by simply positioning yourself as a caring, considerate, compassionate human being with a set of skills or talents and an interest in serving people who share your values, need your talents, and are in places where you belong. And if you want to start from a niche and then broaden out, you— it's certainly a way that you can approach it. But you can also start very broad and principle-based and narrow your offer, your business, whatever it is that you do. To a particular niche or multiple niches in a marketplace. So that's, uh, my little spin on whether or not niching is necessary and whether or not it's something that you should be considering. I've got Cato in the waiting room. We're going to bring her in. I saw Anna pop in for a second. Anna, if you're popped out to watch elsewhere, inviting you to, uh, come back in. Hey, Cato, good to have you here. Any, uh, happy to hear any reflections or questions or opposing points of view on what I just shared.

Now I'm just realizing on StreamYard, if I— what that creative thing pops up is Cato Creative. Anyway, I thought it was just the shorthand for your— for the title of your thing, but now it looks like it's my profession. Perfect, you know, which is what, what everyone in my family I think believes. I really like— that's what I was thinking about, this idea of niche, is because I'm a— I come from the world of playwriting and character creation, uh, and theater and writing and other— and now illustration— that it's important in whenever that idea of the specific thing in the niche when you're creating characters, when I'm creating these things like that, because that helps drive. And I started thinking about just even famous stories, like everybody's got their niche when they're in a story and how those create— and they— it kind of acts as this, um, the way they see the world is this prism. And as you were speaking, Scott Perry, it made me also wonder that sometimes the people who are thinking in the niche terms are like, you know, the people that are out looking who find you. And then they also think about, well, what is the niche? Or it's a cat— it's a, it's a way of simplifying, uh, words and forms and who is what and how things fit into a world. And, and then as I was also listening to you, as far as that creating the, the plan or my market or my pitch, and what are those things about what is a niche And one of the things that I really liked is how doing things across many platforms always brings me something interesting, or many, many courses of study, or that way of just inquiry, a practice that is always about following the curious. What am I curious about? And then getting that point of, you know, practicing talking about it. Which, because this is— I'm thinking about like niche stuff, like say something like, um, like I'm using Substack right now to learn how to talk about myself in this, in, in a new role that I'm taking on, and, and finding the way I'm going to describe myself and what I'm doing. It helps me focus the practice of writing, and then also knowing later I'm going to throw some of those things away, but it's the exploration around it and And I, I just think sometimes it helps people find you, especially in the way we've created algorithms, right? And how niche seems to play into that. So it's, it's like this really interesting question. There's the very specific way of when you're told or, or things like that, or when someone— when it occurs, when you start figuring out, well, what are, what are these things and what is the niche? And I guess it depends on whether you think the niche is you're building a homestead, in which case you can get really stuck in it, or is a niche something you go in and you explore a little bit? It's like clearing a little space on a shelf, and then you're gonna slide in the— you're gonna make a little room for new volumes of whatever you've learned, and then you're gonna go find another little— that idea of the niche. So I just started kind of rambling around about what different ways to think about that.

There's something really interesting also that comes to my mind just in thinking about your domain around playwriting and production of plays and so forth, which is, um, what kind of actor do you want to be? Like, if you look at, you know, there's movie stars that just appear to play themselves regardless of whatever role they have in a movie. I'm not going to mention any names, but, you know, I'm sure we can— we've all seen, you know, like, oh, there's that guy again. He's always that kind of guy or that kind of gal. But then there's— and maybe I mean I may be using the wrong terminology, but then I think of people that are, you know, you know, there are character actors that always kind of play a very specific type of character. And there are, then there are people that, actors that seem to take, take roles based on, on challenging whatever they've done in the past, you know, that, that want to play the villain, want to play the action hero, want to play the dramatic role. So you can't let the, you know, there are actors that want to act, which means they want to pretend, they want to convey and portray themselves as something that they are not. And then there are other actors that simply want to keep being being able to be the way that they are in, in whatever role they have to be in a play. And I love your— and I'm not at all surprised that you looked at it this way— there, there is this way of being where you can just say, well, here's a niche that I want to explore, that I want to play around with. Here's something that's interesting to me, and I'm just going to see, like, is that a thing that I could do? Is that an area that's worth exploring, because that feels much more aligned with the way that I am doing things right now, which is I went for at least a year and a half without any clear niche. And but now that I'm working, uh, writing a book about solopreneurship, I'm going into this kind of solopreneur niche right now. It doesn't mean I'm going to live there for the rest of my life. It's an area I'm enjoying exploring. It's an area where I can be helpful to the kind of person that wants to stop being drug around by the nose by gurus and digital marketers that are telling them about the tools and tactics that they have to use if they're gonna succeed and helping them explore who they are, what they're good at, and where they belong so that they can find, craft a fulfilling business because it's meaningful to them. It connects them with people that they actually care about. And it actually serves a greater purpose around funding and fitting around a lifestyle that, that is meaningful, um, and, uh, and fulfilling to them. I don't know if any of that makes sense, and I'd love to— for you to correct anything I said about acting which is wrong, because obviously I'm not an actor and I don't play one on TV or anywhere else.

Well, sometimes in that it is like, like someone is seeking out a particular type, or they create the type. Let's say Charlie Chaplin, who created a character and then went and explored all kinds of aspects of that. But the Little Tramp is really where, where he would be. And sometimes he would start there and move into other spaces, especially once talking started to happen. Actually, I was surprised. I just read it. I just saw a documentary about him, a very good one, and it talked about how long it took him to start doing talking movies. Like, he, he just said, we're doing silent movies, because that was his brand and his thing. And he, he made— which is now a classic, but at the time it failed because it was one of the few that didn't— it still was in the old form. And this very interesting City Lights, which is a very famous film now, but at the time— anyway, but, uh, but sometimes actors wind up being cast too type, and they know actually when they're taking on some role that winds up being the breakthrough. But you don't know what the breakthrough is going to be, but once it breaks through, then then you get sent scripts like that for the next bunch of years, and you have to decide, am I going to turn down this lucrative work? Or now that you finally got there and got that thing that you wanted to get going, and, or are you going to break and do this other thing, which may or may not prove in the end to be the wisest choice? And it can be a frightening thing when you're thinking, well, I've got this amount of time to make some dollars to help do what you see. It's all kinds of calculations, and it depends who you're listening to and what group you're in. Uh, but so much of what you said also maps on to— for me, it's like an adjacent thing, but it's the same problem of working with artists to help them get better at doing their art. And there's the idea of practice, but there's that deliberate practice, and how do you keep learning about The things— who's doing what in the space? How do you do things in response? Are you going to move in alignment with that? Are you going to move up against that? Are you going to do something that's in the other direction so that yours is very different? Or are you going to do the thing that's in line with what just sold recently? You know, where are you going to make that happen? And, and the trap that so many artists get into where they're looking at the veneer— if they hear the stuff They make their letters look great. They think they need to go make the connections at the parties, and those things can help, but it's really not about so much about networking. It's about who have you really worked with in the room, and that's what drives the conversation, not necessarily me being at some magic party. But also, if that does happen, luck favors the prepared. So if I've got the thing that I can then send to you the next day if you're curious. That's, that's where it comes through, like, what is— what does that mean? But also, how are you moving into creating stronger, more dynamic work that eventually will become very much your voice? That's how you develop it. But it's scary at first because you need it to be in alignment enough to get looked at but still be individual enough to really jet and become the thing that you'll bring. Uh, and I see a lot of artists get stuck in the trap of they want to create this in the safe space, do the safe thing, or they don't— or they also don't want to enter into the harder or larger spaces where they are going to be uncomfortable for a little while. They, they don't know the people yet, they don't know the lay of the land, but instead we'll just choose a much easier path, which but isn't going to lead to stronger art down the road. So how are you growing and how are you doing that? And helping people begin to learn how to have conversations about that. What is the language you use to start doing that? And how do you come into rooms together? And that's that also that idea of invitation, like how do you invite people in, get them going, and then find out is this going to work well to learn how to be artists together and help have good honest conversations about the work and help each other propel into what's next.

So, well, I think there's a really important point that you're making that I'll highlight, is there's not really a right or wrong approach to any of this. Like, there are plenty of times when I've done the work I have to do because I have responsibilities I need to take care of, financial and otherwise. Um, doesn't mean that I sold my soul or that I sold out on my art just meant that, you know, I had an immediate need and I had an, uh, and I had work that I could do to do that that was not out of alignment with, you know, my ultimate values or character. That freed me up then to explore, you know, art that mattered to me more, or art, but a direction I wanted to go in. So there's, you know, I think there's there's, there shouldn't, there doesn't have to be dissonance between the work that you want to do and the work that you have to do. Like we all have, not all of us, some of us are in situations where we don't have to do anything. But I mean, in general, most of us, you know, we, we have to make a living. We would like to do more, more work that matters with people that we care about. And you can leverage one to work your way into another. I think my entire career has been you know, sticking with teaching, being a school teacher until my music career could take over as the primary revenue source, maintaining my career as a professional musician until I could build a guitar studio that would allow me to spend more time at home, maintaining the studio while I built a coaching business until I didn't need to have the You know, so there's, there's, there's ways that you can transition. And so, but what I was hearing fundamentally in what you were saying is this idea of intent, like, do what you do on purpose and make sure that you're maintaining your integrity at the same time. You, you know, you're capable of doing a lot of things without acting out of alignment with your core values, your your core beliefs and guiding principles. The other thing that I'd like to just touch on for a minute here, because I, you know, really just used my own, my own journey as an example, but, you know, people will say, well, that's all well and fine for you, Scott, but, you know, a lot of us need to do this niching thing in order to have a successful business. And there are plenty of other examples. For people that have been fans of the show for a while, and it's available in replay now. I had a great talk with Randy Massingale. Nobody knows who Randy Massingale is. He does not have a website. He does not have a social media presence. Um, he does not have a power offer and he doesn't speak to any kind of particular niche. But Randy is a very smart guy who is, has worked with some incredible, recognizable leaders and businesses. He was for many years in the '90s, a, one of the key advisors to Bill Gates and Microsoft. So, but, you know, if you Google Randy, the only thing that you'll find is that he teaches at, at The University of Seattle. That's about all you're going to find. He's, again, not— didn't pick a niche, didn't create an ideal avatar, didn't create a power offer. Simply uses his skills and the talents that he has honed and does work with people who he aligns with in terms of values and disposition and goals and so forth. Looking, you know, there's, there's also a conversation that I've been involved in on Substack around the idea of obsession, because there's, I think his name is Tim Dunning, who's, who claims that you, if you're going to succeed in anything, you have to be obsessed. It's like, okay, well, immediate invitation to shame and guilt and suffering for most people colliding with that, because most people have a— when the polls show that more than 80% of people, when asked, can't identify a passion or an obsession that they have. So you just shamed 80% of the people that are trying to figure out who they are, what they're good at, and where they belong. The other thing to think about is, when you look at the people who seem to have to be obsessed with their definition of success, Is that the kind of person that you want to be? You know, Steve Jobs was clearly obsessed with design and aesthetics and as he was building the Apple brand. Do you want everything that goes along with building a brand as successful as Apple, which you're probably not going to do anyway, you know, but is it worth the cost to your relationships, your marriages, your kids, and all the other things? Elon Musk, obsessed with getting to Mars, populating Mars. Do you want Elon's lifestyle? My guess is most of us couldn't handle it, and even if we could, most of us wouldn't achieve that level of success. So, you know, again, dogmatic advice. This whole idea of niching, you have to remember in the context of what it's really for and then you have to decide if it's really for you or not. Nicheing is a marketing tactic that can help you create a very specific kind of power offer that will solve a problem for people in that niche, and it may help you get traction quickly that you can amplify and catalyze through funnels and ads and all the other thing. Is that the kind of business that you want to build? Do you want to build a business where you're, um, more or less a technician or a tactician, uh, and that you're just interested in selling as much of a thing to as many people as you can? Or are you a purpose-driven difference maker who has a vision of the world that you're trying to create, or has a specific kind of thing that you like to do with a specific kind of person that has less to do with demographics or even psychographics, but around values and so forth. What I would say is that at some point, if you are, you know, this is, again, Randy is a perfect example. Randy has created a, you know, I have no idea, but I'm guessing a multi-seven-figure business without a power offer, without a niche, without an ideal avatar, without a website, without a social media presence or anything else that all the gurus and digital marketers tell you you have to have. If you're going to create that kind of business where you are just doing work that you actually love with people that you actually care about, that lets you do enough of that work to become the absolute best in the world at doing that in the way that only you can do it, then you're not going to be able to waste your time trying to define a niche, define, create a power offer, and spend all your time figuring out how to continue to market that power offer to that niche. So decide what kind of business it is that you want to build, what that business is for, whether or not that business needs to align with your values, beliefs, and guiding principles, whether it matters to you, what kind of people that you're doing that work with and for, and then decide whether or not niching is necessary. Because it's not absolutely necessary. It's a tactical choice that you can make. It's also a tactical choice that you can avoid so that you can play your game on your terms, all in and full out. All right, Kano, I really appreciate you hopping on. Anna, I know you were trying to get in here. It looks like you were maybe having some technical difficulties. Penny, if you're out there, I did try to send you the StreamYard link so you could join us. I apologize if it got to you too late. But again, this has been another in a series of Close the Gap. These are special episodes of Creative on Purpose Live where we're just talking about things that are related to solopreneurship based upon the things that I'm sharing in my book, Close the Gap. Build a Fulfilling Business That Funds and Fits Your Ideal Lifestyle, Clarify Your Path, Find Your Direction, and Collapse Time to Target. And, uh, we'll be back next Thursday. I don't know what the topic is going to be yet, but if you're looking for resources that to go further with the idea of niching and, and curious about the book and so forth, there'll be links down below really, really soon. Thanks again, Cato, and thanks everyone else for tuning in. We'll see you really soon.