In this interview, host Scott Levin talks with financial advisor Jennifer Lee about navigating the financial complexities of divorce, especially for women and non‑moneyed partners. They outline a practical 30/60/90‑day roadmap for newly separated clients, emphasizing the need to quickly gain control of one’s financial picture—identifying income, assets, liabilities, and personal goals such as keeping a home or relocating. The conversation dives into the trade‑offs of retaining the marital house versus liquidating it, highlighting costs like realtor fees, taxes, and the risk of being cash‑poor for future expenses. They discuss how a low mortgage interest rate can be viewed as an asset, but stress that the decision depends on mortgage assignability, equity buy‑out ability, and the comparative cost of a new loan. Jennifer compares long‑term growth expectations for real‑estate (3‑4% annually) versus diversified investment portfolios (6‑7% for a 60/40 mix), noting risk tolerance and tax brackets shape the optimal choice. The interview also covers post‑divorce financial planning, the importance of a multidisciplinary support team (attorney, financial advisor, therapist/coach), and how emotions and knowledge gaps drive costly mistakes. They address the common fear of hidden assets, suggesting that significant undisclosed wealth is rare except in high‑income or contentious cases, where forensic accounting may be warranted. Finally, Jennifer shares how prospective clients can schedule a free introductory call, and both hosts stress that gaining financial clarity early can reduce fear and improve settlement outcomes.
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Hey everyone, this is Scott Levin, Chief Peacekeeper. I'm here with Jennifer Lee today. Hi Jennifer, how are you?
I'm great, Scott. Thanks for having me.
Can you give a little bit of an introduction about yourself? I know I could, but you'll probably do a little bit better than I can.
No, I appreciate that. I appreciate that. I am an advisor. I've been an advisor for going on 30 years now, but I focus now on working with people in financial transition, primarily women, although not exclusively. Typically the non-moneyed party. And if it's amicable, you know, we can, we can help on both sides. So I really like to try to help clients create a path forward when it comes to their money, because it's an intimidating process sometimes.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, a couple decades together, and now all of a sudden, you know, you got a lot of, a lot of worry, a lot of concern, a lot of, hopefully a lot of money to go about and divide. But Um, I guess taking it from there, like, if you're, if you're working with, like, let's just assume there's a lot of women that, that are the higher earners, obviously, these, you know, for a long time now. But let's assume that, like, you're working with someone that's, uh, you know, kind of, um, more of a stay-at-home or, or they've had a, a less, lesser income. The first, you know, when they come see you, they're, they're, they've told their spouse that they want a divorce or the other way around. And now what? It's the first, you know, 30, 60, 90 days. What, what are some of the critical steps people need to be aware of or things to, to consider?
Yeah, well, the first one is actually getting in the door. So I'm happy that they're there, right? Um, there's such an elevated stress point and anxiety point about not knowing what you don't know. You know, in relationships, we divide and conquer different tasks. So I like to look at it like, hey, I was the person who didn't handle handle all the money. Now I need to really get a grip on it. So I like to try to give them an education about, you know, I say financial planning is simple. It doesn't have to be really complicated. It feels overwhelming, but it boils down to what do you have? What are your income? What are your assets? What are your resources? You know, do you guys have IRAs? Do you own property? And then what do you want? Well, I want to keep the house. I want to move to a different state. I want to make sure I have custody of the kids, whatever it is, whatever it is you want. Then we got to figure out whether or not you got enough resources to make that happen now in a divided household.
Yeah, and every case is really different, right? Jennifer, like, if you're 40 and you want to keep the house and give up a lot of assets in exchange, you got, you know, 20, 25, 35 years of, like, you know, earning potential to make up that. You know, I'm working with a couple right now that are in their early 60s. She wants to keep The home, um, it's worth a lot. Uh, and if she keeps the home, there's cost. If she turns around in 4 years and sells it, it's a huge financial mistake, in my opinion, because the market's not— you know, doesn't look like the housing market's going to explode, but who knows, right?
Right.
If you're selling, you know, 2, 3, 4 years after a divorce, you're paying 100% of the sales costs. So you're paying 100% of the realtor fees instead of selling now and splitting it with your spouse. You got 100% of the taxes on the gain.
That's right. You're missing $250,000 of a capital tax-free capital gain on the WUSBND.
Do you, do you do that sort of analysis with clients?
Oh, sure. I mean, we talk about, you know, it's divorce is financial therapy too, right? So it's, it's not my job to tell you what asset you can keep. It's my job to kind of explain what are the consequences of that choice. Right. And for this, you know, I've had clients in a similar situation, and the, um, the woman said, hey, I want to keep the house. It's the kids' home. They grew up here, all these things. And I get that, the emotional connection there. Well, what happened? Fast forward, their divorce. He's in a 2-bedroom condo, and he has extra money, and he takes the kids skiing every weekend. Well, she can't afford to do that because all of her assets are tied up in the house. So you really have to think through, um, you know, when I'm detached from the emotion of their house, it's a little bit easier for me to lay out those things for them to, to consider. Hopefully they do.
I mean, emotions are obviously a huge part of divorce, so you need someone to, to, to, to really, uh, almost like represent the numbers, right? Like, you're, you're on, on the— you're on the team of the balance sheet. What's best financially? And then you can make whatever decision you think is, you know, But, um, uh, what do you— what are your thoughts about like the, the, an interest rate being like an asset? Like a 2.9% interest rate, that's an asset essentially in divorce. It's not necessarily quantified, but like, what do you think? Do you like— if the interest rates are 5.5% or 6.5% and it's a 2.9%, is that something that like really should be considered?
Well, I mean, I think you have to, right? So it boils down to the numbers. So a couple questions. One is, is the mortgage assignable? So can you get one of the parties off of the mortgage and retain it? Second question is, do you have the assets to buy out the spouse of their equity if there is equity? Third question is, can you afford the monthly mortgage payment of what it is? And then if you were to buy something new at a current interest rate, we need to compare, like, what does that look like? You took your equity, you put it down on a new property. What's that property look like, look and feel like? Does it cost more? And then on top of it, you have an interest rate. So there's lots of factors in there. Not just, you know, I have this rate I want to keep. Well, you know, we gotta, we gotta really understand if it's worth keeping it.
Is there a— I don't know if this is— I've actually never really asked this question to anyone, but like, if there's one person considering like keeping the house and the other person in turn would keep more You know, retirement and taxable investments 5 years from now, is there a more likely path that ends up with a higher net worth in that situation? I mean, I know it depends on a million things, but is there a general—
No, I mean, I think that if you look at those 2 asset classes as what's their opportunity for growth, you know, with a house, it's everything is over time, right? And So you're probably looking at a 3 to 4% growth rate on a house. Okay. On your investments, depending on how you invest, if you're in a 60/40 portfolio, you know, 60% equity, 40% bonds, you know, over time you're probably doing 6, maybe 7%. If you're in something more aggressive, you're doing something better. If you're super conservative, you're doing less. So there's a lot of factors. So we gotta assess. Who they are, what their tolerance for risk is, what their tax bracket is. There's a lot of different parts.
Yeah, of course. Yeah. What do you stay with? Do you offer like services post-divorce? Like, will you stay as their financial advisor?
Well, that's really— I mean, that's really what I do professionally, right? It's help people create a path forward and then implement that and structure that throughout their life. And go on. But this, this financial triage, while they're in the middle of this contemplating, do I— what kind of attorney do I hire? Do I use a mediator? What's this going to look like? Is it amicable? They don't need a financial plan. I mean, to talk about their asset allocation. They need me to be real with them and help them understand what life is going to look like economically for them. After, and can they live with that? And then they can make solid decisions. I think to me that's that's the critical point of my you know of what we do is helping them make that pivot. Time and time again, people will say, "Where were you when I was going through my divorce?" Right? I made this mistake. I forgot this. I left. I left too early. I was aggravated, and I just let him have it or let her have it. I just gave up.
And so, do you think that emotions play, like, when people make mistakes? Do you think it's driven by lack of knowledge, bad advice, or like advice that's more immediate thinking? Like, rather than looking at, like, how does this look 3 or 4 or 5 years down the road, just looking at day 1? Or is it, is it that their emotion, like their feelings are driving their decisions? Is it all of the above?
Yeah, that's a great question. So it's a combination project and dependent on the person, um, dependent on their knowledge base, right? So you can intellectualize your divorce and your assets and all those kind of things if that's— you're that numbers person. Um, uh, and then it probably is more dependent on what advice you're getting. But if you don't have, um, the knowledge and the expertise and the understanding of what your choices are and what the impact is, your emotions are gonna run, uh, run you. So I always say it takes a village to get through a divorce. So it takes an attorney, uh, whether they're, uh, you know, in a mediator role, whether they're, um, just helping you write up what you've already agreed to, whether they're in litigation— hopefully you don't have to go there— it takes a financial person to help you make decisions that are Based on fact to, to, to look at what your life's going to look like. And it probably takes a divorce coach, a therapist, a couple best friends to get you through the emotions of it. And those are all at different rates, right? So the least expensive is the divorce coach or the therapist. The next least expensive is the financial person, and the most expensive is the attorney.
So, you know, the last thing you want to be doing is having a therapy session with your attorney. That's the last thing they'll let you do it. They'll put the phone on mute and continue to type away, and then they'll respond when there's a lull.
But they're not $5.50 an hour.
Yeah, exactly. They're, they're happy to do it, but it's just not productive most, you know, to do that.
No, it's not. So, you know, oftentimes when I meet somebody who's new into the process, it's, it's raw. It's, you're, you're feeling anxious. And so I say to you, Are you prepared to go speak with an attorney? Right? You know, I want you to walk in there and say, okay, I have been married for 22 years. We have 3 children. We have this in assets. We live in this county, in this state, and we want a divorce. And what does that look like? What's my best case, worst case scenario? Give me some parameters what I can expect. And then And then come to me and let's narrate a bunch of different scenarios.
Yeah, I love that. Um, you know, the fear that people have, uh, I actually tell people like, you got to build a team and you got to build the team that fits your situation. But, uh, you know, Hollywood teaches us to run off and, you know, talk to a lawyer. Um, lawyers are, are, you know, there's— it's a 2— a year and a half, 2-year-long divorce process. They're not looking to solve anything at the beginning. So I always tell people, hey, if you can only afford one thing right now to get control of your, of your fear so you're not driven by it and consumed by it, a financial understanding is really the key to kind of feeling better about your situation, I think.
And I think that does give you the mindset, and it may be the opposite. It may be, it may be telling you that this is not going to be good, you know. Slow your roll on the divorce, right? Or get your ducks in a row so that you'll be better prepared when you do exit or get support. And, and so on. Hopefully there's plenty of assets and, and you just feel good.
Yeah. Last question for you. When someone talks about, like, their fear of hidden assets, in your experience, like, if you could put a percentage on it, how, like, what percentage of cases would you say there That, that hidden assets in excess of $50,000 have been found.
I think that, you know, and, and, and I'd be curious to hear your feedback on your experience with, uh, divorce cases. And since you're doing a lot of mediation, you know, probably you're not dealing with so many narcissistic people. But my experience has been most divorces are because of one person is a narcissist. The next highest reason for divorce is drug or alcohol addiction or gambling addiction.
Absolutely.
And then the last one is, hey, somebody cheated, right? So I think if you're in the first 2, you have a much higher propensity for, you know, for assets to be a little sketchy. I think if one person has a business and the other— and there's cash involved and the other party is not the moneyed person or involved intimately, there's risk there. So I think it really depends if you have, you know, John and Judy and they both have jobs, you know, what are you hiding? You're hiding $5,000 maybe that you take out of the grocery money. I just don't see massive amounts of money there.
I mean, it takes— you got to be earning like $600,000, $700,000, $800,000 for there to be enough money to To disappear it without someone going, you know, where is it?
And look, if we really think that's happening, certainly in with, with some, you know, more complex cases when there's, when it's contentious and there's lots of assets, you got to bring in a financial forensic accountant and you can find it. You can see the money.
Yeah. I mean, my experience is that they're very, very rarely do people find significant assets hidden. Misuse of funds. Sure.
Yeah.
Mislabeling, like a business that, you know, one person owns has retained earnings of $200,000 and they're just hoping that no one says anything about them. Like, yes, like that's a mislabeling or a kind of a— but a drug, you know, drug addiction, probably money was spent inappropriately on women and drugs during that time and needs to be accounted for. But just straight up, like, I've planned this divorce and I'm going to hide $400,000 from this person. It's pretty rare, I think.
I would agree with you.
But, you know, until in my practice in mediation and when someone raises the issue, it's hard. It's hard to eliminate their fear that there might be hidden assets out there because we're not doing, like, you know, a lot of formal discovery. We're just looking through statements to see if there's You know, withdrawals or transfers to accounts that weren't labeled. But I think that it's a— in my experience, consumes people to the point where they can't focus on the settlement.
Yes.
And I kind of wish— I, you know, wish less people were consumed with it because it's usually not as critical of an issue. Again, misuse of money or mislabeling, but just straight up, I'm hiding assets. It's hard to find real significant assets that are hidden. Pretty rare in my litigation experience. Pretty rare that I think I found 1 or 2 cases in my— when I was litigating that where they— where there was real money found stashed away. So, yeah, but I really appreciate your time. Great conversation. Can you— can you let people know how to find you?
Sure. I think that what I like to say is that if, if we left you with a question that's specific to, to your case or your situation, I'm certainly happy to have a squeeze the juice call. So I have a Calendly, it's just Jennifer Modern Wealth, and you could just schedule 15 minutes and no cost, no obligation. We just have a conversation.
And you can work all nationwide, or?
I can. Initial call I can have, and then if we decide to work together, then I need to get licensed in that state, and I can do that in a matter of 24 hours, not even.
Awesome. You have a tremendous reputation, and I was all over the website the last couple of days. It's really, really a lot of wealth of information. So I really appreciate you joining me today. Hopefully people learn something. These conversations aren't intended to answer things in finality. They're designed to raise questions, give you some insight about, you know, our ideas and how things kind of go in our practices. But then from there, You know, reach out to, reach out to one of us. Jennifer on the financial side. If I'm in, I work just in California on the legal and mediation side, but wishing you the best, Jennifer. Hopefully we'll have another conversation down the road.
