Sean Everett, Nick, Chin and others design a storytelling product built on a three-part narrative: "I am this because of that." They sketch a tin-toy-like artifact with glowing eyes and gear motifs inspired by Patek Philippe watches that prompts users to explain why they are who they are, surfacing perspective shifts and personal epiphanies.
Chapters
So yeah, we should definitely start this call right now because there's a lot. Let me get my headphones.
Yeah, I think this is, um, this question is actually since, well, since version whatever. The earliest version, we've been circling around like, what is this, right?
It's like the most important piece.
Yeah, it's not, but because of our process, I feel like the way we're doing it is we're letting the gravity of Like our curiosities start to create the core of the galaxy or the solar system the way it naturally happens.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, when you asked that question, it made me think, well, if we represent this properly, because I think it is these kind of things you're talking about, Sean, like how do you tell a story? In the most basic fashion. I mean, the last place I remember us leaving it at was we were trying to constrict it to some kind of a process or framework, and then we realized people just told them more organically, and we didn't want to control that as much. I think that's where we left it last time we kind of played around with this question. We wanted to make it so that people would have a blank, a blank space to put data in, and as they added space, it would keep expanding. Do you remember that?
Yeah, I actually remember that talk. I think originally we said we would have like whatever amount, like 3 as what we showed you, but if you wanted to add more, you could add more.
Yeah, because the thing is, is that there are going to be some days where, like, I'm just looking at my iPhone, some days I'll just take like a, you know, 3 or 4 pictures, but other days I'll take like 200 200.
So my—
maybe, you know what, what is interesting is like when I was putting together the top 20 photos from the last— or not top 20, just storytelling photos from my blog post. The way I was thinking is I've got 700 photos here, but before I started to pick photos, I started to imagine in my mind What was kind of the beginning, the middle, and the end of that whole trip. So I started to kind of cluster images in my mind to kind of fit around what those 3 were. And then, and then once I had them, I started— and I even eliminated a couple photos and added a few. But it did start with that 3. Um, So maybe that's what it is. Maybe— actually, the original idea we had is that it's one shape on the door and then you keep adding and it keeps expanding. But maybe what it is is 3 shapes and those 3 have the ability to expand, like as you add data to them. And then the thing I'm thinking of is that Maybe what's missing also is, I think, a lot of interactions like this. The engagement of it is done by some type of, you know, we hadn't really done a gamifying overpass on any of these mechanics. And I almost see that if I hear some satisfactory noise or even hear some or see some type of animation on the screen, Yeah. That gamifies the experience of adding the data. Like they'd almost be like these Pavlovian tripwires that would signal me to know that, you know, adding more data into this is a good thing. It's actually fun. I don't know why I'm thinking this, but all of a sudden I imagine Tetris and I don't know why. But it's almost like in Tetris, you have different shapes, right? And they interconnect to create a row. So whenever you make a match, you can interconnect different shapes, but in the end, it's making a solid shape out of that shape. And I almost feel like when you're telling a story, to tell it correctly, what you're kind of trying to do is taking this data that are different shapes, you can You're trying to equate them to different shaped Tetris blocks, and you're trying to fit them together so they feel like a solid column, like of a story. I don't know where I'm going with that, but for some reason that seemed interesting to me.
Yeah, I think that piece is sort of like the satisfying interaction of, you know, how you build the story almost can be like building blocks.
Yeah.
I was thinking last week and I drew this out was I was trying to think of, you know, the real problem with like Facebook Yeah. And Twitter and Instagram and all these other social stories is that they aren't really stories. Like, engaging stories have a setup, an anticipation, a reversal, some sort of climax, a punchline at the end, a before and after. And I was thinking, like, maybe there was really just 3 concepts of where you start, or maybe this is how it grows out, where Just one, like one image is simply like a moment, right? So it's like an interesting moment because, and you can upload the photo and then describe why. Another option would be like a before and after, and then you describe sort of what happened in between. And then the third one is almost like a comic where you set up this beginning, middle, and end, and where the And almost has this punchline.
Yeah, I like this.
Because the problem is like we have to find some structure so it doesn't just, you know, for better or worse, like take a picture of food, right? That's not as interesting as I took a picture of this food because or whatever. It's like there's no— like Jack Dorsey calls Twitter a story in 140 characters. 40 characters. It's not a story. It's like a thought or a moment and it's not engaging. It's just data, right? So how do we turn data into—
Yeah, what he's describing, that's not a story. That's a blur. And you're absolutely right, Sean. And actually what you're talking about right now just got me really excited because no one's doing this. Like what you just described there, no one Well— Now, the thing— I just got this image in my head, and I think it might be effective in some way to what you're saying, because it's kind of based off a lot of stuff we've been circling around, like the Fibonacci sequence, the idea of the golden mean. And if you ever look at the way it's plotted, it's just bisecting lines in a space, and then the space keeps bisecting Right. So, for some weird reason, I see these 3 broad things you're talking about as not as Tetris blocks, that's more like the interconnection, but like there's a primary drive of each one of those 3 functions and then there's a breakdown. So, I almost imagine that once you add the primary piece of data, like then what you're doing to actually add flourish, and this is actually what I do when when I do art is when I'm drawing a character, I'm thinking of the broad shape first and then it becomes more specific. So good character design, as taught, is shape. It's pure shape interaction. Like the physicality of what you're creating is actually not about— it's not about what those Shapes represent, it's actually about the interaction of those shapes in space, right? So I'm thinking about broad shape interaction first, and then once I have that figured out, I start to put little flourishes on, like what does the hair look like, and, you know, what do the teeth look like in the mouth, you know? And I go almost through each kind of part of the anatomy and I analyze and I think of that, like, like how does this shape contribute towards the broad thing I've laid It's almost like when you put the first picture in, the 3 pictures, it's the beginning to the Fibonacci sequence. And then any more you add should be— it should intensify the meaning in some way of those original 3 pictures, of the original 3 primary ones. It's like adding extra flourish or extra passes onto a painting, right? So I think that these mechanics, like because, it's like saying that. I think that that is— I don't know why, but whenever you said that— well, I think I do know why. But I can tell you when you said that, I had a very visceral reaction to it as in, wow, I can't think of anyone that's done that before. Like put that— I think it's a one-word thing. That really makes it simple where it's literally on this door, you You've got the cube where you can enter in the data, and it's like kind of like one-word kind of instructions or 2 words, but no more than that. They leave the person with very, very simple, very simple kind of linguistics. I really like that. Because. Because. Because.
Yeah, it's like, how do we give someone a turn this into a movie button or something?
Yeah.
So it's, you can't not be interesting or engaging or immersive.
Well, I think you're right though. The thing that you touched on is I'm thinking about all the One of the most amazing, interesting moments of my own life. And it's because this, because that.
Huh.
This, because that. That's actually 3 words describing it. Because this is my— yeah, this is almost like what will happen afterwards. Because is the center, and That is the past. It's the state before. So, it's almost like a state change, right? It's 0, 1, and then in between 0 and 1, it's the state change between the 0 and 1. So, we're defining— it's weird. We're actually defining binary, but like the center state binary at the same time.
So, are we coming full circle here? Is this really the perspective shift in the moment of change?
Yes, it is. Holy shit, it is. That's holy shit. It's not just about the perspective change you're consciously aware of. They're actually happening every time you have an experience. I never even thought of it that way before. That just blew my mind.
And we surface that so that actually leads you to live outside your comfort zone?
Oh my God. I just got tingles. I've never thought of life like that before. That's fucking crazy, man. That gave— I'm like literally like the hairs on my arm are standing up. I've never thought of it in terms of its constant perspective. It's constant.
Yeah.
Wow. That just kind of blew my mind a bit.
And that would force quality, right?
Yes.
If it's forced to say, only use the ones where you perspective shifted, it's really the epiphanies, the insights to connect the dots in your own life.
Oh my God, that's so beautiful. Do you ever hear the phrase, the only thing constant is change? I'm never going to see that, I'm never going to interpret that. That quote in the same way ever again. Who said that? I don't know. I heard it in a hip-hop song.
I heard it in a hip-hop song. American education.
See, that actually is a story right there. The only thing constant is change. Who said that? I don't know. I heard it in a hip-hop song. Right. And because there was a perspective shift, that's really the punchline. That's really the The reversal. That's the essence of the reversal, is the perspective shift.
I mean, why am I getting so excited right now talking about perspective shifts? It's because I just had one, and that's my story to you. Wow, this is it, man. So it's something about, I think, Adam, like, this is interesting. Guys, because this just made me think of like a lot more. Think about the icon, right? It's a chevron and I placed it in a circle, but what that can also represent is actually standing at the top of the chevron and looking at your choices within almost like your line of sight, right?
Mm-hmm.
It's almost like rotating to To assume a new position somewhere, which would be perspective shifts. Like, imagine yourself at the center of that circle twirling around and looking at all the possibilities. It's not just before and after the situations though. That's— see, when I did the original model of this perspective shift, Sean, I was only seeing it outside the cluster of things that were happening, not the fact that it actually happens within the stories as well. That's what's kind of mind-blowing about this, is that in the stories it's happened. So it is set in stone, right? So that's why I'm telling it to you, because this— I was in this state, 0. There was a switch, switch, and now I'm a 1 over here. I'm here for this reason of the switch, and here's my story about why.
Well, the switch is really the invisible. So again, we're making the invisible visible.
That is correct.
And that's what we're focusing everyone on.
Yes, and that is like the thing my friend posted on my Facebook link about how they're able to— they're claiming they could see Schrödinger's cat now because they could hover between between 0 and 1 in like a quantum state, which is bonkers. I'm like, what? But that's what we're doing because we're talking about wanting to get into— we realize the direction this AGI is only going to be developed in some type of quantum computing. So it's like we're starting to go there already with the way that we're seeing how the logic kind of threads together for our main mechanic.
Yeah.
It's in one state or another hovering That's the important part.
Yeah, the AGI is really human. Humanity is really that, that which is in between.
Dude, this is nuts. Ah, that's weird.
Think about what that means. Humanity is that which is in between.
Oh my gosh.
So yeah, so we are actually in— if you correlate it to like purgatory, right, that would say we're sort of like in purgatory state right now or something. There's not even like a word to describe it.
Well, let's break this out more meta. So, you know, let's look at our lives, right? All of us have a beginning point and end point, almost like so to like a— this is kind of weird. Oh shit. Okay, so it's like an atheist—
I have this recorded.
They would see their beginning point as a 1 and they would see their endpoint as a 0 because they don't think there's anything after, right? But someone who's more spiritual sees their actual beginning point as a 0 state and their endpoint as a 1. And then their death is an actual transition to another on/off state.
Yeah, well, death actually is the epiphany, right? Like, if that guy, that neuroscientist, Neuroscientist or whatever who told the story of like being dead and experiencing heaven. He came back with a perspective shift.
Yes.
Because he saw, he saw, he saw 1. We're actually in 0.
He, he— Yes.
0 ended, he went to 1, and because he was at 1, he realized the switch. Is that right?
I don't think— I think the epiphany doesn't have to be death though. I mean, there's things that make people change their whole life, like a birth of a grandchild.
Yes, I was going to get to that, Shin, but that's not the meta zero and one. Yeah, the ultimate. Our life is a fractal. So your broad life is a big switch from one to zero, zero to one, however you want to see it. And then these things you're talking about, Shin, are within your life. Those are fractals that break out within that.
Mm-hmm.
Okay? So, you can take— so, let's break it out like a Fibonacci sequence. You can bisect your life halfway, which is always extending. So, imagine, if you will, this growing Fibonacci spiral that is your life, like the spiral that we're creating with these planets out in space with our UI. As it grows, All the fractals grow inside of it. It's like this really beautiful kind of orchid or flower that's growing in a spiral, and like the stems are growing inside that spiral. And that's kind of the way I see the UI growing in the planet, but the experience of our lives growing, and then how each one of our experiences break down.
Because I—
Sean, like when you said, isn't it a switch within each situation? That, holy shit, like everything made sense then.
Yeah, it's every moment added together, right? It's every switch in every moment. Every minute has 60 moments, but I mean, the moment can go ad infinitum.
Yeah, it can go down to a micron. Like it can keep going. I mean, where does it stop?
Yeah, that's the essence of an idea, that's the basic building block, right?
Right, so where the idea is, this is really weird, and this kind of gets into some of my personal philosophy, but I believe that when people are creative, I believe they're actually channeling energy from other dimensions. Like, I actually believe this. So this is the weird I think that's a good thing about the kind of discussions, Sean, you and I have had about the idea of why people believe in this idea of God. To me, the idea of God is something that's like an overmind of ridiculously ordered intelligence, like that's self-evident whenever you analyze the data in front of you.
Okay.
So, it's almost like to be creative, you're channeling Almost like a God mind from another dimension. And it percolates in the chain of these very basic elements and then it grows these states of 1 and 0. This kind of sounds kind of weird stuff, but it's weird because the stuff that we're saying about these situations, It just brings my mind back there again. It makes so much sense. Yeah. So, based on what you said, Sean, I think the mechanic is, our core mechanic is, dude, it's moments. It's the state between. That's what it is, man. That's what we're exploring. Because when people just put up their crappy photos on Facebook, they're not in between. Those states, they're not exploring what that is.
Right.
That's where we are. They're not there, because they're only putting almost the results or parts of that state, or parts of what construct what that is, but no one has ever been mindful of that whole, that kind of whole system, the hovering between those states and how important that is. And once again, we come back to 3s. It's one state. I am this. I'm this because that. It's literally that simple. I am this, which is almost like the end result. Because is the middle state.
And that was the state before.
OK. It's like a really simple— it's the simplest way of saying, I'm this because of that. I'm this because of that.
What does that mean? Exactly. That's why. I like that a lot.
So maybe the— maybe the—
What?
In the UI or the UX or somehow in the way we frame this to the investors and stuff. It's somehow in a very approachable, easy-to-digest way, that phrase is somewhere there.
That's right.
It's like kind of saying, what's the point of all of our products? What's the point of telling stories? What's the point of getting an avatar? What's the point of watching a movie? What's the point of What's the point of going to a door to meet other people? What's the point of doing anything? It's this, I am this because of that. That's the point. The point is, is I'm traveling from one state to another, from birth until death, I'm traveling from one state to another, and every situation that makes up that entire journey, that's the point. It's the experience. That's it.
Okay. So take Wings Castle, the thing you did. How would you tell this in this structure? Because you almost have to think about like, what did I learn or something, right? Like when did my perspective shift and why?
Well, I think, when I think of— do you mean the castle used as a metaphor for this, or like the structure of the castle?
No, no, no, like very practically. Like if this mechanic existed in an iPhone app, how would you set this up? It would be like this picture. So if you were going to say, I am this because of that, in ADaM using The Wings Castle story, how would you do that?
It's interesting, 'cause I think that was a broken man coming back from the war, like kind of in the head, right? And because it's him actually building the entire castle, and this is where he presently is continuing to build the castle. But I feel like the big because that led him to this— or wait, yeah, I'm this, as in like in the future, I'm this because of that. But that in the beginning in his story was, yeah, like I told you, he went to Vietnam, he came back to the States. He was messed up in the head. He saw a lot of things he didn't see.
So if it was linear, you know, past, present, future, it would say, because I went— because of that, I am this, right? So because of the terror I experienced in Vietnam, I built the castle.
That's right. You just put it together there. That's a structure, Sean.
So that's his story. Okay, so let's go more meta. Because you're telling the story, right? So what did it mean to you? So you went there, it affected you. If you were telling the story of your trip there, how would you say it? Because I went to Wings Castle, I learned— I mean, I don't know.
Because I went to Wings Castle, it's funny, because I went to Wings Castle, I felt I learned more about myself, actually. I never told you guys about this, but it was really weird. There are a few people I meet in my life where I feel like I'm kind of staring in the mirror. And it was weird. I felt like, in a weird way, I was staring in a mirror when I was talking to this guy. It was very weird.
See, that's engaging. All of a sudden, you just got me hooked. I'm like, well, what do you mean?
Yeah, because Sean, Your question was good because it made me. I can't stop saying because. Holy crap! Because it's out of me. I'm telling another story, Sean. This is the right question. It's the right question because it can't even shake it. I couldn't get away from it, Sean. This this is brilliant. Holy crap! Um, I I can't stop shaking it because when I met Wing at his. When I got to the castle and started talking to him, I felt like I understood him.
Ha!
That's— wow.
That was powerful.
So the understanding comes in.
It was huge, man. Whenever I cracked that joke back at him, and Jared said he saw Mr. Wing laugh, and Jared said, what? He said, what the hell did Fragnark just say to Mr. Wing? He's laughing, smiling.
Yeah, what, what did What did you say?
So again, I'm hooked. I can't even remember. He was making fun of me and I just— but for some reason, when he was saying the joke, it didn't bother me because I knew why he was saying it. I was like, he's not saying it to make me angry. He's saying it to— he's like probing to see what kind of person I am.
Right, he's testing you.
And I could see right through And in a spark in my mind, I could see the reason why he was doing it because— oh man, see, I'm giving you story on story, man. This is the right mechanic. Holy shit.
It's a fractal.
It is a fractal, which is what I was saying before. It's because I've done the same thing. Even you, Sean. Even you. I think you told me You told Jared that, or you told Mr. Wing. No, you told Mr. Wing that. You said to him, you said— Oh, I was describing you.
Yeah.
Yeah, Tragnark gets you. He's like, because— oh man, this is crazy. He said Tragnark gets you because he does that to other people to test them. Dude, this is it.
Yeah.
Holy crap.
Yeah, each stopping point in that, you left me with a hook, like between a chapter, like I wanted to keep turning the page.
I wasn't even trying though. I can't get away from it, Sean. I can't get away from the structure. Once you send me down that path, the story just keeps rolling out the same way. You know when someone gets you on something and you try to get away from it, but you can't because it's too right?
Yeah.
That's what just happened to me. Because I tried—
Isn't that how kids talk too? They're like, why is the sky blue? And you're like, well, because the sun shines through our atmosphere.
Why is that?
Space is black. Yeah, and they keep asking why, why, why, and you keep saying because. And then eventually it's like, I don't know the answer anymore, just because.
Because God made it that way. Well, that's an interesting insight, Kim, because— oh man, this is messing with my head now. I'm never going to see the way I think in the same way. This is actually messing with my head. People default back to God because, in a human sense, it's the ultimate fractal. We don't understand it all, so let's refer back to Let's refer back to the source code. Holy crap. This is blowing my mind. I'm telling you guys, this is really blowing my mind.
The question is, can it— yeah.
Are you recording this, Chen?
What's that?
You're not recording Oh no, yeah, it's recorded.
Are you kidding? I've recorded every single conversation I've been on.
This is one of— do you know who I am? This is one of the biggest breakthroughs we've ever had since we started building this.
You know what, never mind, I didn't record.
I'm kidding, I forgot it. Because why?
Because I was so drawn into Frag Narc's story, I forgot.
Here's the thing, Chan, I'm really happy now, but if I found out you Because of that, I'd be very sad. And that's my story to you.
So the button isn't I understand. The button is why, question mark.
It's a little kid question. It's like what little kids ask.
Yeah, like, duh.
You know, holy— oh, I'm clapping. I wish you guys could see me clapping here. Because it should be that question mark. Because it's getting at— I almost see the beginning of this software.
Just like an artifact.
Yes! Yes! This little child with beginner's mind, they're asking you questions. They're asking you questions like your child. Oh my goodness.
And that's where curiosity comes in.
Yes! It all ties together.
Finally. Fuck.
This is it.
That circle took a long time, guys.
This shit took like 5 months.
I'm holding a Triforce above my head right now.
I am.
I'm like, what? I'm like holding it and it's glowing and I'm smiling my ass off because we just figured out the source code of all this. Holy shit.
Yeah, no, I think that solves a lot of things actually. I was thinking We were talking about yesterday with the confide thing, and I kept saying like, you know, you talk and then you say, I understand, but it's not I understand, it's why. And you keep asking the question why until they're ready to talk. Like, this bleeds into everything.
That's what the psych— that's, that's what a shrink does. That's what it's like when you go to a psychologist. They keep asking you why. Yeah, that's how they get— that's how their mental therapy works, is you'll start to talk And what the therapist will do, they'll ask you why, or how did that make you feel? But the how did that make you feel is actually a why. How? It's a why.
Yeah, and everyone, everyone likes to have— everyone has the answer, right? Or likes to feel like they do. Everyone likes to give advice.
No, yeah, this is, you know, when I was— you know what happened with Kirby and me, right? And then I was saying, oh yeah, we broke up and whatever. And it's like, why?
Why? Why?
And it became this whole, you know, it's that same, I think, process right there.
You know what makes it, what is gonna make it approachable? Is it just, it's just not this. Now this is gonna blow your guys's mind if you haven't thought of this already. Is the why question is a kind of, it's a very engaging one. But if you don't trust the person asking it, it can be a put-off type of question. Like, I feel like you're being pushy with that question. But if it's a little friendly tin toy that you have an attachment to, oh man, that doesn't feel like a put-off at all. It's, it's like your little kid.
Yeah, he has access to everything.
This is crazy because— Because?
Why? Tell us why, Nick. Why is it crazy?
Why is it so crazy?
Because you feel like you're instructing the child robot, but you're actually learning about yourself.
Yeah. And that's all introspection is. That's how you explore the final frontier, right?
Yes. That's philosophy.
That's archaeology into your own mind.
I can't believe this. This is amazing.
You want to teach the artifact all these things.
That's the first step because you want to answer the question. It's like just sitting there blinking because blink, blink. You know the answer, just fucking type it in. Yeah. So, okay, could it even start with So Nick, you just took a picture of your cheesecake or your chocolate cake.
Yeah.
Why?
Well, because—
Cheesecake because?
Because one of my friends made it and it was the last time I had it. It was actually at a party and she put cherries on it. I don't really like cherries, but I would try it because she's really good at making She's actually— her name's Ariel. She's really good at cooking. Every time she has a party, like, she always cooks something, and I always feel guilty because I start— I can't stop eating. This is actually a true story. This happened to me. I'm not making this up.
Why couldn't you stop eating?
When the chicken was sitting there, I actually looked at it like a couple times. I was like, oh man, I don't know if I can do this. Oh no. I was like, I really want that cheesecake, but it's like 10 o'clock. And then I kept circling it and eventually I just gave in and had the cheesecake. Now how much more engaging is that than just a stupid picture?
Yeah, and I laughed at the end.
Yeah, because I admitted the fact that I'm a failure at controlling my eating habits. It's funny.
We didn't have to teach you anything. It was very human. Even if I didn't know you, I could relate to that, right? It was just— it just started with a picture of bullshit food that I don't care about.
That's right. I relate to it. Let's apply this thought experiment, okay? This is crazy. So all of us on Skype, we have photos of each one of our icons. This is so fun. Chin, why did you take that picture?
That was the first time Kirby and I went away together. I think that was the first time we Really connected.
Oh my God, this is so amazing! Keep going!
Yeah, uh, this is real talk.
Oh, this is so real!
Blood!
I can't help it!
It's going everywhere!
We figured it out! We did figure it out! Oh my goodness! Holy shit, keep going!
I wish we got to videotape you.
Oh, oh man, you should see me. I'm like actually My eyes are watering. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Keep— please keep going with the story. I want to know.
Uh, yeah, because, uh, I've never taken her anywhere, and I really— we had, I think, a couple months left, and I really wanted to bring her someplace and just spend, uh, the weekend while I had off for work.
And, uh, yeah.
Where, where was that?
Baltimore.
Why Baltimore?
Because that's all I could afford.
It's so funny. Awesome.
But she'll never know because we got the Hilton.
Oh my goodness, this is great. You know, Sean, you've been doing this for a while already though.
Yeah.
You told me the big change with you, Sean, is, um, the reason why you were able to start engaging all these new kind of opportunities, I'd say quote-unquote business because it's not really business, is whenever you'd always say, I just want real talk. But the funny thing is that it wasn't— the solution was in front of us the entire time. We just never asked Sean, what is real talk actually? And probably if we dug into that a bit more, you would have just said, I just— well, you had already told us. You just ask questions and you don't say anything really other than that. You let them ask the question or you let them answer it, but we never stopped and thought, well, what was that question you asked?
Yeah, because it wasn't like I was not wanting to listen or I was just letting them talk. I was actually engaged. Yeah, because the stuff they were telling me was fascinating. Why was it fascinating? Well, because they actually have real stories to tell.
And why is everybody fascinating? Because everyone, all 7 billion people on this planet, have interesting stories to tell.
That's why. What out of your life is the most interesting, immersive, and engaging stories that I can relate to? It's the hardest ones. So it drives— it leads you down that path. Even if you start with cheesecake, you end up at my best friend tried to commit suicide.
Yeah, it's true. You're right.
Start at suicide, like start at cheesecake, I don't care. You're going to end up where we want you to end up. Yeah, because the system forces you that way.
That's right. Well, what I like is I see— I— what I see is the upload Where it says grab any image, almost like the mechanic, grab any image that you really enjoy, right? Or something that has some type of meaning or some moment in your life that mattered. Even if it's a piece of food, it could be a piece of food. This is a thing. We were trying to eliminate photos before. Now it's anything. Yeah, movement matters.
I like that.
Yeah. And you have them, you say every moment matters.
Why? Share your moment.
And then they put it up. Yes. And then as soon as you drop it on the door, the door, or maybe the little robot— sorry, the little tin toy says why. He asks why like a little kid.
And you can, you can voice record, you can upload another image.
Oh man.
You can keep telling the story. And you can go as long as you want. You can tell a novel if you want.
I can take— I could put this sketchbook— I think let's take a picture of that. I could take a picture of any one of my hats. I could take a picture of this cup here.
This is so engaging, man.
Like, I just—
I'm looking—
Hello, Sean?
Yeah.
Your life. Sean's excited. Yeah, what did you say?
Like, I'm looking around in my room right now and I'm looking at all the objects and the clothes that I have and every single one of them tells a story.
Yes, the story is in everything. Gentlemen, do you realize what we've just done? We've unlocked a mechanic to infinite. Huh? It's infinite. You know what you did? We have unlocked the mechanic To tell stories, engaging stories about anything, period or end. That is what we figured out today. This is amazing. Sean brought real talk to the platform. We just brought real talk to everything. Just, just try to wrap your brains around that word. Everything has a story. We've always said that. We just We just didn't know the simple way of approaching it, of extracting what is there, the energy that's waiting to be released, right? It's like vision. That's what we've done. We've created vision with everything, storytelling vision.
It's so simple. This is so elegant.
This is beautiful. This is beautiful because it's not just a question, but it's this This little friend, this little, this little toy that's asking you the question, that you— it feels like your child.
This is like that puzzle piece that got hidden under the couch that you've been searching for for months, and the puzzle's sitting on the table, and you're like racking your brain trying to find this puzzle piece, and it's like the most critical element. It's like the main character's face. And so you know, like, what the puzzle is, but you're missing the last facial expression to actually finish telling the story of the puzzle.
Yeah, you're tired.
You found the key under the couch and you put it in and fucking light exploded out of the workshop and then you died.
Yeah.
Because you passed it on. This is insane.
Right?
And so think about our trailer that Jared drew up. The big thing is he put the key, he was making a key.
Why?
He put it into the door.
Why?
He died. Why did he do that? It's leaving open these hooks. And imagine this, what if you— it teaches you to like, what if you set up a situation And you didn't give them the why right away. Think about how teaching it would be if you sent them a key to the why.
That's what master storytellers do, right? They start to play around with these things.
No, yeah, it's like that chick from the Arabian Nights, right? She left all those stories with a why, and so she survived.
It's the moment in between telling, giving them the setup and giving them the because that is actually the game, I think.
This is insane. Really what's on my mind is I don't think we would have come to this too if we didn't have the artifact figured out because, there we go, back in the story again. Because the artifact is the vehicle for the why. It frames the why in a way that doesn't feel intrusive. You feel like it's coming from a child, a beginner's mind, someone who cares about you.
Yeah, he really, he really wants to know. It's not just somebody going, oh, why? I don't really give a shit. I'm not gonna listen.
Right.
He's sitting there on the edge of his seat asking why.
And you know why I like Jared's brother so much, Justin? Because whenever I'm talking to him, he looks like he's really paying attention to your answers. I don't know if you've noticed that about him, but he'll like look directly at you, like all his attention is on you.
Yeah, that's— if you think about why people actually divulge information. It's because why we've been able to have real talk is because we've really listened.
Yeah.
Saw us really listening and caring.
Yeah.
Kept asking probing questions about it. Because why is just the basic one, but it becomes more granular, right?
To infinity.
Right.
And you know, this is crazy. So I've been saying that so much lately, this is crazy, but this whole idea is insane. insane. I love it. Um, it's so— so when I kind of finish, when I refine the design of this, uh, artifact a little more today, because, uh, we like the shape on the front, the wooden kind of face.
Love that.
Um, it's this little kind of— I kind of modeled it after Pinocchio. And if you think of Pinocchio, he is the beginner's mind, like the why, why, why.
Yeah.
But the cool thing is on the back of his head So, the front side is the humanity. The back side is the technology, right? That's driving it. But he never sees that technology because it's back-facing. Unless he looked at himself in a mirror from behind. But normally, he'd look at it from the front, right? Whenever this little artifact is talking, is asking you why, it's so weird. I see this in real life. I see 40-year-olds I feel like Ray Bradbury as I'm describing this to you. I see a little robot sitting there at your desk in thinking man pose on a little chair asking you why, asking me why. And when I tell him why, he's recording. He is the software. He is a—
it is—
it's not he. It's a reflection of me. And every time I engage with it, the circuits on the back of its head—
That's right.
That looks like an amalgam of a quantum computer and a Patek Philippe watch begin to glow and project holograms out of the back of his head. I imagine all this as clear as day.
Well, yeah, I mean, people talk like this. They say, yeah, I can see his gears are turning.
Yes.
And that's the simplest motion that we need to show. When it's recording, the user feedback is the gears are turning.
Yes.
It's just like a tape deck, right? You know it's on because you see it moving and you see it listening. That's what you see from the artifact. You see it listening.
Yes.
Now, the deeper you go, the brighter it glows.
Yes. And in the future, in the future, I mean, I can think of ways that we could viably I do it now because I've been researching robotics actually. And don't laugh at me. This is an exam.
Don't laugh at me.
No, it's funny.
This is what happens when you're in love with something. You just like can't get enough of it.
I was researching the new Furby toys. Don't laugh at me. And the new Furby toys, the eyes use LED. They use an LED screen and giant pixels. to animate the facial expressions. And I was like, that's very interesting, because they've mixed digital with this furry toy. It's a new Furby.
Mm-hmm.
So, it has a wider range of expressions. From what I can see, this artifact thing is kind of about the same size as the vinyl toys I have. And then on the back of the head, it has this LED screen that has the animation. So, it has gears on the back of it or something projected that feels like gears or maybe real gears, but I'm talking about in a way that would be kind of sustainable to build and mass produce. If you had it digitally displayed as gears in the back of the head and then have the animation of the gears turning, like as you're talking with it more, that's something that we could actually manufacture now at cost.
That'd be so fucking dope, man. I actually am not a huge toy guy, but that would be so fucking cool. Like, I'm actually hyped to buy that.
Yeah, so imagine this, Sean. Imagine a toy about maybe 4 or 5 inches tall, made of wood, constructed of wood and ball socket joints, the same kind of the marionette thing you sent over, but the proportions that I've made the characters in, like, more appealing. The head is wooden and the back has an LED screen, and that tells you as you're interacting with it, And recording what its status is.
Yeah, a little iPod Nano in the back of its head.
Eyes would light up. It'd be like Teddy Ruxpin, but a more advanced version that listens to you. And it could tell stories. It could record things and tell them back.
Yeah, I mean, we basically did. We made Teddy Ruxpin just not so creepy.
And you could pose the little toy, you know? Because it would have like the ball and socket joint articulation, so you could pose him on your desk and just have him sit there. And dude, just imagine how much of a mind— oh man, I don't like to use swear words, but I have to now— a mindfuck it would be to have this little toy on your desk knowing it's the same type of toy that the Thor maker had on his desk when he was designing it. Yes.
Yeah, humpier.
This is amazing.
Yeah, it's not just I get it, it's I need it.
Yeah, I need it. That— I am telling you, the toy design I just described to you, if we made that, they would sell.
Oh, they would sell like hotcakes.
So bad. They would I'm thinking of like what I was drawn to when I was a kid.
Yeah, that'd be something I'd buy in a heartbeat.
Look, it would be a wooden toy, but get clothes for it, man. You could get little, like, little sweaters.
Like a little cardigan, a little sunglass.
The best part about it is the interaction is completely universal. Doesn't matter what culture, language, No. It just listens. And you— I love the user feedback. It's so simple that it just, uh, you just know.
And we can make different versions. So the more expensive one, you know, would be fully articulated and have a larger screen on the back. And then we can figure out ways of scaling down the same version of that for like a second or third world country, where it could be as small as the one the little girl had in her pocket and it could have a simple kind of like solid or like a flash drive in there, right? And an LED that whenever you talk in it, the back of the head would just glow. It would just be a scaled-down version. It won't be as complex, but it would be the same thing.
Wait, what did you just say about the back of the head?
It would just glow.
Oh, I thought you said flow.
Oh, yeah, that too. It would just flow. I mean, same thing, right?
Yeah.
We could make different versions of it. It would basically be the same thing available depending upon price point. But dude, I'm telling you, this guy, like, you know, you'll meet sometime, is this Clem guy, Sean, that you— I introduced— we were talking to, he would shit his pants over a project like this.
Yeah, man, like, if the fully upgraded version, the most advanced version, was Like a, like a fine watch movement on the back. Oh God, I would, I would fucking save up my money for that. The watch collectors who are like insane quality movement aficionados, like you could get, you could get someone from Patek to do this.
I was just gonna say that. I, I Actually, when— holy crap. This is art imitating reality. It's going on everywhere with this project. Is that when the time comes that we release like a super limited edition version, I would want to approach Patek Philippe about designing a limited edition of this where they actually do one, whatever you call it. A limited edition. Uh, gear, whatever, one complication or two complication type thing that would set— that would set in the back of the head of this thing.
Man, that would be cool.
Oh no, imagine— remember we said the world, you're terraforming your world, but it's actually your life clock?
It is.
That is it. That's the grandest complication of all. Yeah.
Is it—
as the gears turn, it's telling the story of your life and It's like you have to— the mechanic is you have to catch up to it because it's ticking away. Your life is ticking away.
Mm-hmm.
Like, I'm sitting here in my office and there's this little clock. It's about a foot wide, a foot tall, circular, and you just hear it going tick, tick, tick, tick, and everything else is quiet. And the feeling you get from it is, wow, this is Precious. Every moment is slipping by. I better use every moment and focus on exactly what I want to do in this life because it's slipping away.
It's funny because every moment matters, and within every moment, embedded in it like a beautiful pearl in a clamshell, is why. Why? Why? Why? Oh, and how are you going to answer that? What are you going to tell people?
It's crazy.
I can't believe it. This is the biggest gap we had left and we just, we not only filled it, but we put a fucking pyramid in that gap. Like a glowing one, like radiant. It does feel like the Triforce. Like when Link picks it up and he's just smiling and it's bigger than him and it's glowing and then it starts to hover in the air and energize.
This is gonna be a good day. Apple releases their new thing in like an hour.
I heard the, the, the— what's that? The new Airs are like $2,000 almost.
Yeah.
No.
And so, so basically that—
basically my mind is freaking blown, man.
Yeah, so that's, that's the core. That's the core of the product. Yeah, just have to keep thinking about how we can build it out and keep making it engaging.
Yeah, the core is this because that. And the because is the why, is answering why. So it's this in one state, that was before, because is the reason, and why is the question. Do you still remember that?
4 words.
Actually, 3 words. Holy crap, it's 3 words. This, Which is now because middle state, that the 4, and why is the 4th element that evolves out of the 3?
That's what drives you, right?
It's the center thing. It's the center thing that the 3 words are surrounding, that energize into a circuit, that create the 4th element that appears there. It's the center of the triangle, man.
Why?
Yeah, there's, there's nothing— this does not exist in the, in the laws of man. It's the thing that combines movies, comic books, TV, radio with the bullshit on social media, but is easy to produce. So it's the immersiveness and easiness.
I actually—
so the reason I actually came up with all this stuff because I was watching that Steve Jobs thing when he first released the iPhone. Because he said 3 things and then he started going through the problem statement and he drew that graph, that those 4 quadrant graphs where it said, um, he was describing like the UI interface. It was like all the buttons were hard to use and the phones weren't very smart.
Mm-hmm.
Then he put iPhone in the upper right. So I tried to do the same thing for us. I realized that movies, TV, all that other stuff, the great immersive stories, books are hard to read because they take— well, they're not hard to consume, it just takes a long time, but they're hard to produce. So that doesn't work. Then social media, it's easy to produce, but they're not very much fun.
Yeah, no quality.
To either make or read or view. So how do we Combine the two, and this is how, in the upper right-hand corner. This is Adam. Adam reinvents storytelling.
It does. It's funny because it reinvents it, but it brings it so close to back home. It makes it feel so humble because it's just a little— it's just like a little kid asking you why. It's so funny. It's so funny. Oh man, the elegance of it just— I don't even know what to say. I'm speechless. Because who wouldn't want to answer why to an innocent-looking artifact looking at you, sitting on the desk and just looking at you kind of like a puppy with its head kind of tilted and just going, why? And then whenever you start to answer it, you feel like it's looking at you and it really wants to know.
Mm-hmm.
Like it really does care. Because it's your friend.
Yeah.
Pokémon, you're my best friend. It's like a little Pokémon, but it's a philosophical Pokémon.
Philosophical.
It's a philosophical one.
It's an Aristotle-mon.
Philosophimon. Holy crap, making a Philosophimon.
You know, you know, I, I was looking for quotes about storytelling last night, and you know which one I found. I'm gonna give you 2, and the first one, I'm gonna read you the quote, and then I'm gonna tell you who said it. So listen to this. This is absolutely insane. It blew my mind. So here it is: We keep moving forward, opening new doors and doing new things because we're curious, and curiosity keeps leading us I mean, that sounds like Steve Jobs.
Is that him?
No, that's Walt Disney.
Oh my God. It sounds like they sound the same.
He's describing Adam, like to a T right there. We came up with it separately.
Oh yeah, let me blow your mind again, Sean. Are you ready? Are you ready? Hold on. I'm gonna send you a picture that as you were saying that, I kid you not, I was just looking at. Okay? Now when you see this, both you guys are both— are you ready to shit your pants again?
Mm-hmm.
Okay, hold on a second. Because this photo I was looking at, and I didn't realize this until I looked at it longer, because one of my animation friends actually had it on his Facebook. Okay? Now, I want you to look at this and study it. Because when you look at it, I want you to think about what other movie modeled this.
Oh yeah, this was totally out of Iron Man.
That's right. They modeled—
His dad and like the, the The campgrounds, yeah.
Tony Stark's dad modeling the theme park, which was actually a hidden message to find a new element because his technology didn't have the time to find it yet. What is each generation doing for the new generation? They're pushing forward. They're pushing forward into frontiers, knowing very well when they pass away, there's still more.
Yep.
Doors, baby. There you go. That's the mind-blowing thing. Right as you were talking about doors, I was looking at that photo.
Yeah, he built Disney World. Ours is just called something different.
That's right.
So here's, here's the other quote.
This one's a lot shorter.
Those who tell stories rule the world. Wow. You know who said that? We're gonna take it way back.
Plato. Plato? Plato. Wow. Damn.
Like those two, it's like those two quotes that I want to put on our site. It's like, wow, Plato had it right. Don't even think this.
Yeah, you gotta front up. Are you, you're gonna front up Plato?
And, and Walt Disney. Disney, like, shame on you, son.
You know what's great about this? Why I'm so happy? Because when you put something like that, like a quote, and then a person's using the software and they go, I can tell a story, like, they— the level of empowerment a person gets, like, just feeling like they matter.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah, everybody can do it, already does it. All we're doing is Adam's just helping you tell it a little bit better.
Actually, I would—
Adam makes you look better.
Yeah, and not even just better, but I'd venture to say 10, 20x better, because the moment you start to see these things, you start to where your actual perspective shifts happen, and what has meaning. And because of that, your growth, it becomes exponential.
Mm-hmm.
Because you start to see the meaning in those moments, the answers to those whys. Like, it doesn't— it's not something that's just routine anymore. Like, here's the thing, something I learned in I learned art when I would draw still lifes. Because I had to do that for years before I even— when you guys are asking me, how do you learn to draw? It's like the roadmap for that for me started way back when I was in grade school. I took art classes. The first art class I took was at a library, public library. And it was because my mom had me do it. She put me in those classes. Holy shit, I just completely lost my train of thought. I don't know where I was going with that. That's the end of it.
I have a question. Yeah. I was asking my friend Anthony a while ago, like a couple months ago when we were trying circling around this stuff too. I go, what did Jesus say to people? Like the actual words that got them to like break down like their entire shell with one thing. And he told me there wasn't really any specific words, it was just right on point to exactly what they needed to know when they needed to know it. So my question is, did— is this present in any religion?
No.
Any religious texts or anything like that? Like the why, the because, like the how you engage I don't think it is. I've never heard anything like this.
Not really, no.
Like the generalities, not the specifics of one-on-one.
No, I agree with you. Here's the thing, and this is why I equate this to not a religion but a philosophy, because what this allows a person to do, and I think I've probably told you and Tim this already, is that And we've had discussions about this, Sean, is, you know, I believe different things, you believe different things, you know, we all have our beliefs. And I think what's really, what's really special about this idea is that it doesn't get in the way of what those beliefs are. It allows each person the best version of that that they can.
Mm-hmm.
It enhances. So, like, if someone's like a Buddhist, right, it's like Star Wars. right? Everybody saw Star Wars around the world and they loved it because a Muslim could see Star Wars and go, I identify with Luke Skywalker, like fighting for the galaxy. Like a Jewish person say, I identify with like Luke Skywalker. You know, Christian say, I identify, or whatever, or yogi or whatever, because everybody wants to feel like they're fighting for something, right, that's right. And I think with What's really cool about Adam is what we're doing is we're extrapolating like really kind of granular simple mechanics that when you apply it to whoever you are right now, it doesn't—
it's not like a big finger pointing at you like, you need to be like Adam.
You know that feeling you get? It's not lecture. It's like, it's almost saying it's not lecturing us on how we should be It's how can we become more of a better version of what we are. That's what Adam is doing.
Yeah. Which I love.
I love that.
Yeah.
No, I mean, to Sean's point about religion, right? I really don't think at this moment any of them are solving, or they don't have any immediate answers. I think the reason why most of the older generations is into religion is because it answers a question that they are looking for, is, you know, what happens when I die?
Yeah.
You know, either you get reborn or you go to heaven or whatever it is. That's, that's why I think the older generation connects with religion, is because it gives them a reason to live on and then continue to do what they're doing and then be at rest when they, you know, they leave Earth. There's something else that's going to happen. But I think other than that, like, there's no other real answer that's being answered.
Yeah.
Like, I went to Catholic school. I think the only thing I never learned about what religion could do for me, I always learned about what Jesus did. But this happens, and if you do good, you go to heaven. That's all I learned. I never learned what it can do. Why, why is religion good, you know?
Which is interesting. Interesting, because that's actually my— that's the viewpoint I always had about religion most of my life. But then I, kind of when I had my huge breakdown after the divorce, I actually, a lot of my growth I could actually attribute to a deep spirituality. And I learned that there's a big difference between faith and religion. Religion is organization and rules. And a lot of the bullshit, you know, a lot of the structure that people do that have no meaning. Faith and spirituality is saying, I feel a direct connection to something bigger than me. It's a very different thing. It's something where it's personal, right?
Mm-hmm.
It's saying that I feel personally led to help people, or personally led that I need I need to stop being such an asshole or not be as angry all the time and try to be more transparent with people. So that to me is the difference between— look, religion is I'm going to go to this building and say a bunch of things I memorized and then leave.
And the thing is, like, here's the thing about religion, right? They teach you things about what Jesus did, right? It's like, you know, love each other. Do all this other stuff, right? Well, then you look at the religion's history, it's like, you guys fucking killed people, you persecuted, you did all this shit. Like, how can you? And the funny thing is, you learn this as, you know, you're learning all these philosophies at the same time you're taking like history class. So it's like it conflicts each other. It's like, I'm supposed to do good, but then you killed like millions of people. Like, what the fuck, right? So it's like you can't You can't teach somebody and you can't believe in a religion that doesn't— you know, you can't do what someone else says if they're not following it.
Right, so the way I separate that is that when people kill millions of people, like, those are people's— that's kind of how people— that's people acting on a belief about things, but I think it's the wrong way. Because it's not so much about, to me, like any type of faith, you know, whether it's Buddha or Muhammad or Jesus or, you know, the Dalai Lama. It's the person that is kind of espousing those philosophies. I analyze what they're saying, but I also know that many people in history have taken that and twisted it a bit to do very terrible things.
No, yeah, you're completely right, dude.
The bad side of religion, which is awful, and I think it's terrible. But I think that if you just look at some of the lessons in themselves from these spiritual teachers, it's incredible. If you just look at it one-on-one and you don't think about how all the other people interpret it, but just think, like, what meaning does this have to me? How does this help me today? Like, what does it really mean to love one's neighbor? another, right? If someone says, they said Jesus said love one another, okay, it's a lesson he told these guys thousands of years ago if he lived, or if he existed as a historical figure. But apart from whether he even existed or not, what I started doing is just asking these questions and just really thinking about them. Like, what does it really mean to love one another?
Mm-hmm.
Love your neighbor as yourself, you know? That's hard to do. It's like, That's hard as shit, man. Like, that's something I'm not good at, I'm telling you. But I know I try every day to get better at that because I know it's the right thing to do.
Well, that takes a whole lifetime.
Yeah, because doing the right thing is hard, and that's hard. I mean, it's also hard to kill millions of people too, so I guess Mao Zedong could use that excuse.
No, it's easy to It's easy to do it when you're not doing it, right? You're telling other people to do it and all you're doing is spouting shit. Like, it's easy to do that.
Yeah.
So, I mean, it's— what's funny is, is these kind of questions could all come from pictures, man. Like, you could take a picture of like a— like you in Catholic school when you're You're a kid, right?
Yeah.
And why, why are you dressed up like that?
Because Mom made me transfer out of public school.
I love public school.
Why do you love public school?
Because all my best friends were there.
Why is that?
Because we were— we had all the same classes together, and then we did all the sleepovers together. Over shit and all that stuff. And we liked all the same stuff. Actually, I've never had friends like that till like college, like that same type of friends.
This is awesome.
I don't know about you guys, but I'm so happy right now.
I am too. I mean, I think this is the one thing that— it's funny because this is something that we've been doing But we just never really saw it until we got the artifact, right? Because we've been doing this whole process, especially Sean.
I'm telling you, the artifact is what brought this all together. Because it's easy for me to think of innocent questions in terms of a beginner's mind, but we never personified that. And the moment that It was weird actually, Tim, because I imagined from the get-go, for some weird reason, I imagined the robot just looking like you. And so it was easy because I— so for me as a designer, it's easy to tell the story if I start to imagine real-life people I know as those characters. So I don't know if I told you this, but I imagine— all I imagine when I see Adam or the Doormaker now is Jared's dad. That's it. Yeah, no, me too. He looks like him. He's got the bushy eyebrows. He had this twinkle in his eye. And I'm like, if he was sitting at a desk and carving something and lovingly constructing a humanoid to record, what would it look like? What kind of personality would it have? I'd be like, well, it kind of looked like Chin and kind of act like him. So it was kind of weird. I imagined this small wooden version of you on a desk. And Jared's dad carving the back of your head. They're pulling your head out and putting gears in your head. That's what I was imagining yesterday. Cool.
Yeah. I like all those goofball shots of Chin throwing his hands in the air on one— standing on one leg on top of the spire and peeking out from behind the door.
Yeah, he's like the little artifact. Right? It's like Adam's trying to build his door and the little artifact's running around and being goofy.
With huge oversized glasses.
Yeah, with huge— now, if you guys noticed, I couldn't transfer in the latest versions I did, I couldn't really get the glasses into there, so the way I kind of represented it in a figurative kind of way is the way that the wood splits on the face. They look like Yeah. So it still feels like these weird kind of optics on its face, but it conforms to the head like it's part of the carbon.
I mean, I like the minimal one that you like to drag because then you can overlay whatever you want on it, and if we wanted to add more, I don't know, clothes or hats or whatever, whatever the hell, then that's just like accessory city.
Yeah, that's actually why the second one, the first one on the left, the second row down, that's why I like that one the most because it has the feeling of being as close to kind of the marionette, but it still feels very appealing and it looks like it has a personality even though it's very kind of like naked and blank.
What I see is like, right, is that the first one is the one that you get, but then the 2 next to it on that bottom row are like additions that you can do to, like, kind of modifications.
Yeah, that's actually what I was thinking too, that the shapes and stuff, that's like if you wanted to add stuff, it could look like that if you want or not.
Oh yeah, definitely.
Or like a little hat.
See how I have a little hat on the one that's Is that the hat that you want to give Jared's dad, the Donut Maker?
Yeah, that's actually— that's funny that you even picked up on that. Wow.
That's the first thing I picked up on, dude.
That's amazing, Jim, because like, yeah, when I was drawing the hat yesterday, I was like, this looks like the hat that Jared's dad would wear with his costume. I actually imagined that, that like his dad would have this little hat that's kind of pointed and felt and had a little feather in it with the best, because Garrett's dad's kind of rotund, you know, and kind of jolly looking. So I imagine the little pointed hat that's made out of felt. Then I imagine when he's done making the artifact, just so it feels like it's more human, he makes a littler version of his hat and puts it on his head.
Mm-hmm.
It's sitting there on his desk, and he kind of— it's the last thing he does. He's done carving the whole thing, he's put the last complication of the watch gear on the back of his head, and he's like, it feels like something's missing. And he's like, oh, and he kind of looks at himself in the mirror and he sees he has a hat. And then it just shows him stitching a tiny little hat and then kind of just puts it on his head, and you can see his index finger like tap it to like, like adjust it onto the head, and that's it. And it's like the camera turns around and it cuts to him like smiling, like all proud of himself. Oh, I mean, I got a little hat for my little arm. You guys can imagine, right?
Yeah.
That's how real this world is already.
Dude, I smiled, I giggled really hard as soon as I opened up the page.
Yeah.
I was like, I love these guys.
This world is so real already, and this This world is, it's an amalgam of all the people involved.
Mm-hmm.
Like I was telling, I think I was telling you or Sean that, you know, I've kind of worked you into this. I've worked Jared's dad into it, but eventually I'll be working, like everybody that's a part of this family, they're gonna be a part of this world in some way or another. It just, you can't force it. It just kind of happens. Yeah.
Right?
So, you find each person's personality and you inject them into this world, because then it's just so— the world is so much more rich then, because then when I think of the artifact, I don't have to analyze it anymore. I don't have to think about, well, is this or that, or fundamentally extrapolate it. I just have to think, does this feel like— does this personality reflects my friend. It has the characteristics that I think this character has. It's his primary, kind of almost wants, desires, like what part of their life they're in. Because then you just observe the person and they tell you. It's all there.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, Patek Philippe, man. Could you imagine, like, at the Patek Philippe store, Sean? Wait, was there a Patek Philippe store in Madison?
In what?
In New York, when we walked along that fancy—
Oh, on Madison Avenue?
Yeah.
They opened their first retail store in New York a couple months ago. ago. I don't know where, I can't remember where it is, but yeah, they hadn't even had its own retail store. They had just been distributed by like Ternault and authorized dealers.
We have to put that onto the list of places we go, uh, visit.
Could you imagine if we did something with Paddock Police? Like, they would want to display this in their store, you know that, right? Yeah, yeah.
I mean, there's So like upper-end elegant, like even not having a watch. I don't know if they would ever do it, but I'm sure— I know that there would be some watch company that would want to get involved for sure.
Yeah, even if it's like not Patek Philippe, but like anybody that prides themselves in the idea that the gears are, you know, that they are—
Gears are life.
They are a soul unto themselves. And so let's—
You never know. Fuck it, let's do Patek. That's what I want to do, and they're going to give me a watch too.
Yeah, I know you're obsessed about that. So I mean, if we know that they're quality, I mean, let's keep that in the back of our heads because you never know. So I'm going to design the back here. Complications of this character today, and it's gonna— I'm gonna model it after— I'm gonna look closer at this Patek Philippe stuff, and I want the gears. Now you can see in the first kind of take I did of it, the rough version, that even now it looks like it is the gear work and some of the stuff, but it looks— if you glance at it, it looks like kind of a rough representation of our logo also.
Yeah, I see that. Yeah, I see the marking on the bottom.
Yeah, that's cool.
So that was the idea that I wanted to just even show on top of that. Not only was it gears in the back of its head, but those gears turn and actually show our icon like actually working.
Yeah, I like that a lot, dude.
Yeah.
Yeah, it is, it is, it is the The artifact is the numen?
Yeah, its head. This is nuts. Like, I'm so thrilled at that. What we've figured out in the past—
5 months?
Well, what we figured out in the past hour of this discussion is literally the convergence of all this stuff together. It's all starting to converge. Towards this point, it's like very, very bright right now. Yeah, so I know what I have to do today.
Yeah, I think what I'm gonna do is take all this stuff that we just talked about and work it into Confide a little bit, because I had some ideas and I was like, I was going through this process, like when I talked to my friends, like what is it that I mostly do and why do they keep coming to me? It's because I don't give them a vibe. I just listen for the whole time and just ask, okay. And like, I ask the question, why, really? And it leads to them coming to this realization. And one thing I came to was that, you know, it takes a while to come to this realization, but also takes a lot of support. And maybe if we could have some way of, you know, having an email come out to you showing like each of those icons that like That like every week you get one email. It's like these are the people that, you know, understand you or, you know, or whatever it is. And then it also gives you like a quote or like an email that someone wrote to you. You know how you send letters to yourself in Futures? Maybe like it's something like someone else says, like, you know, a weekly thing that you get one. So like if people wrote you 100, you'll have like 100 weeks of like motivation.
And, uh, Chen, I think, um, if you kind of go through the recording of this conversation today—
Yeah, no, I definitely think—
And take notes, I think that is going to give you a lot of answers for all the stuff you're asking right now. Like, if you just go through it again, take notes, and then we have them up there, and at the same time, I think it's going to answer, uh, a lot of these things you're talking about.
Oh, no, no, yeah, definitely. That's what I was going to do. I think, yeah, I think so many things were solved in this conversation is.
Yeah.
It's definitely something that I would have to do to kind of figure out, because there's a lot of things I think that are important that, that we just saw, but everything feels so natural and it's something that just happens in a daily conversation.
Yeah.
It, it has a lot to do with confide, and I honestly seen confide working in Really that whole process, you know, of like just talking through that maybe, because we don't have to build a separate platform.
Yeah, so make sure when you take these notes that you spec out the 4, it's like the 3 statement, right? This because that, and then the why is, the because is the answer to the why. So this because that, and then the question is why, which is what, you know, where the because comes from. And then also kind of notes on the fact that it's just not, you know, it's just not the stories, the ends and the beginning of stories that have perspective shifts. The actual story itself is perspective shift. So, it's everywhere.
Mm-hmm.
So, if you kind of drill down into those things, and I think that What you're talking about, this confide thing, it needs to somehow fit very comfortably into that. There is an answer to how to get all these confide-type mechanics to work, and it should conform almost like sweat to the surface of an orange with all the stuff we were just talking about.
Yeah, you're coming at it from the very personal and hard to talk about end. And the stuff we've been talking about is the very surface level. So ideally they should be one in the same, and you should be able to like navigate over that continuum easily.
Mm-hmm.
But I don't know, maybe it's— maybe it almost is like one of those hourglasses with sand in it where you flip it. Like you flip one way and it moves towards the center Or you flip it the other way and it moves towards the center. I don't know, but I agree with Nick that if we do this right, it should have confide and this entertainment value all rolled up into one, and it can just naturally emerge from this basic seed or atom.
Yeah. Something I forgot to tell you guys, and I kind of— This is until after I uploaded the photos of my drawings. But there was— and I want you to pay attention to this because I'm actually going to play this up more in the next design of this artifact, tying it down more. If you see the one we picked, the one in the second row, the difference between that one— there's a subtle difference in the eyes between that and all the other ones. Instead, I drew the eyes solid black, which I like because it kind of gives it this friendly look without being too kind of in your face. But if you notice, I have the center of those kind of dark circles, they kind of glow. You see that?
Yeah.
So it's like almost like a blank space that goes back into this wooden face, but showing that there's an actual backlight, like there's soul behind those kind of dots that are kind of bored out into that wood.
Mm-hmm.
I actually see that when you get this toy, it does, like you were saying, Sean, it feels like almost the front, like the wooden front of a mask. So it's kind of an allegory to the masks we wear too. There's a lot of interesting things in that, but if you had the glowing of the eyes from behind that, It just becomes this kind of fascinating kind of trope on, you know, what faces in the front and the back, but like kind of what the gears in the back that power actually do power through the front. And there's also that phrase that the eyes are the window into the soul. So the light that is coming out through those eyes is actually the same light that are coming out from the movement device in the back. Which act— where all the actual processing happens. So actually, I imagine the eyes glowing, the gears in the back head glowing, and then you see how I have the atom symbol carved into his chest?
Yeah.
I see that glow too. And it would be wood, and then the joints between it would be metallic. So it'd be metal, wood, and then electric. Like all under us.
So our logo is what glows, basically.
Yes.
Word up.
Then if you look there, I'm sorry, just one last thing. The eye glow, that's the orb above the head, so it actually represents 3 spheres hovering above the chevron, but it's the head.
Yeah, yeah, it's the chevron and the 3 dots that glow.
Yeah.
The logo, you already know though.
Yeah.
So, okay, so then we can become Gordon Freeman for Halloween. I just need something on my head to glow. At Comic-Con.
We'll do that. I don't know when, but we will. Have you dress up in armor and walk around Comic-Con? That'll happen. All right, I'm excited to draw right now, and I haven't eaten. I don't know about you guys, but I'm a little hungry.
Starving.
So I'm gonna go do that and work on this.
All right, sounds cool.
All right, uh, yeah, Jen, uh, whenever you have the notes up, just let us know.
Yeah, for now I'm gonna upload it to Dropbox to make sure that everything— like, Tina and them want to hear it. But I'm gonna write notes and I'll upload it to Evernote too.
Do you think— do you guys think we should— I know we had talked before about finding a place to upload all these things.
I was thinking, was it possible? Because I tried doing it on YouTube, it takes like 12 hours to convert into an MP3, then it takes like another 12 hours to to upload to YouTube.
What about SoundCloud?
You only get 200 megs worth a user.
There's got to be a podcasting hosting service somewhere.
I was thinking maybe we could set up like a blog where we just throw on audio files.
Yeah, but you still have to store that in a server somewhere. What we need is the bandwidth and space somewhere. I don't know if that exists.
Yeah, like Tumblr lets you upload files, but it doesn't work straight from the Mac. You have to convert it, and I don't know how long it would let you go. I mean, it's really like a podcast, right? Because they're so long. Yeah, the question is, how did the— how do the podcasters do it?
You're right.
I'll look into that. I'll put that on my things to do.
Yeah, because if we had like an Atom— yeah, it would be like an Atom podcast.
Yeah, an internal podcast. Yeah, that anybody can stay up to date on other meetings if they so choose and vote them up and share them around the company or whatever. And then it's more passive instead of, you know, you must Yeah, I agree. Definitely be somewhere.
Yeah. All right, cool.
All right, tomorrow then. Oh, don't forget tomorrow we have our night meeting. Jared's gonna be on that. And then Thursday I'm gonna meet Tina and Jared for coffee.
Okay, all right, good.
Yeah, I'm trying to get them closer together, all of us. So then we have a better understanding of each one.
Good.
All right.
All right, guys. Cool.
Today was a good day. Let's make it even better now.
Right on.
All right.
Bye, guys.
Bye.
