AM + PM Skincare Routines, Laser Treatments, and Advice for Hyperpigmentation with Dermatologist Dr. Shereene Idriss

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My skin Theory philosophy is pretty simple. Less is more and you really do want to target your skincare based on your needs and your skin's problems.

And when you say less is more, I know it's really overwhelming for people when they See so much on the Internet. So how do you even know what might be the less is more products for you and how to try and incorporate new things without overwhelming your skin?

It's what I tell all my patients. Honestly, it's like just take a step back and if you had to just close your eyes in a split second and just imagine what is the biggest problem you have, focus it on that. So if it's pigmentation, start with just targeting any sort of skin care that is targeting discoloration, hyperpigmentation. If it's redness or inflammation, try to make sure that you're focusing your routine on soothing and calming your skin and not trying to add an exfoliation and add a retinol and add a third thing with an active ingredient. Like, you just really want to make sure that you are keeping it very, very tight knit and super focused based on your biggest problem. And everybody has one dominating problem that they can start with from the get go.

Yeah. And with dominating problems, it leads me to your line, which I think everything here is really all about hyperpigmentation and it's called the major fade line. So why did you want to focus on hyperpigmentation when launching your brand?

I mean, it was honestly a no brainer for me for many different reasons, starting with my own patients. And I am a cosmetic dermatologist. I do cosmetics 99% of the time, five days a week in my practice. And the first thing I do with every single patient that comes in is I take a step back and I hold the mirror far away from their face and I'm like, what do you see? Because it's most definitely not that little wrinkle that you're pointing to on the top of your forehead. And I would say 8 to 9 out of 10 times it has to do with the color of their skin. And over time, your skin becomes ruddier looking. You get some form of discoloration, sunspots, brown spots. Your freckles morph into larger patches on your face. And if you can even out your skin tone, you can get the biggest bang for your buck. And on a very personal level, I myself have melasma, which is a form of hyperpigmentation that can only be treated with prescription. But it was, it took the mental toll on me when my melasma flared up and I just felt like completely speckled and blotchy. So personally, I definitely felt that really stark contrast of having an even skin tone to not happen kind of overnight and the mental toll that it takes. So from My perspective, if you can simplify the routine by delivering actives that are available over the counter to have a targeted treatment solution, really helping you minimize how you produce pigment and helping even out your skin tone, it can really make a big difference in your overall appearance and how you feel about yourself.

Yeah, I think when my skin like looks and feels overall even, it feels really good. And my mom's a little bit older and I think now she's trying to f maybe some bad habits she had when she was younger. So how do we prevent hyperpigmentation from even happening so that, you know, down the line there's less that we have to treat?

I mean, you hit the nail on the head when she was younger. Most of the damage is done before you're even 20 and it does creep up over time. So like even people with freckles and it's really cute when you're in your teens and in your early 20s to mid-20s, like they're part of who you are, there is a tipping point where they become quote, unquote ruddy looking and it's because of the underlying damage from sun exposure growing up. So the best thing you could do, honestly, and I sound like a broken record and it's not exciting, is really protect your skin from the sun. Sunscreen, wearing hats, trying to avoid the sun, at least from the peak hours of the day between 10am and 2pm when it's at its strongest. You know, just trying to be a little bit aware of your own habits and what you're doing out in the sun versus not out in the sun. And I think wearing sunscreen at least once a day in the morning, like after you brush your teeth, putting it on after you put on your sunscreen, your skincare is a really good habit just to get into.

Yeah, I agree. And then at what point is it using products at home? And then at what point is the pigmentation something where you need to have an in office treatment, whether it's a laser or something to help it even further?

So it's a really, really good question and one that I get asked a lot. And I even tell patients there's no point in me doing a Fraxel or an IPL on you if you are not going to do 80% of the work at home with your skin?

Yes.

It makes no sense. It's not like, I mean even if you had unlimited funds and you're the richest person in the world and you can come for a laser every other week, I would not do it because it's like going to the gym, you're not going to get an eight pack from one go and expect it to last forever or you don't go to the dentist and get a cleaning and not brush your teeth every day, you know, so you definitely need to have a targeted routine that you are working on even in the background, even when your skin looks good, because the damage is there underneath the surface. So I would say if you are on a consistent routine for like two, three months and you are honest with yourself and genuinely consistent and you're protecting your skin and yet you have a spot that is not getting better. Of course, going to the dermatologist's office because you want to make sure that it's not something malignant like a skin cancer, right? And if it isn't something dangerous, of course do a laser treatment to help boost it. Because I mean creams can only do so much, especially over the counter ones.

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It's very easy to think of them as one of three things, right? It's either you're targeting water, which is basically the texture of your skin, fine lines, wrinkles, et cetera, or you're targeting redness, which causes inflammation, broken capillaries, blood vessels, et cetera, on your face with any sort of red tone or hue, or you're targeting pigmentation, brown spots, freckles, discoloration, et cetera. So when you're thinking of a laser, a laser can really just do one of those three things. And I'm not talking about tightening devices like ultrasound energy or radio frequency or microneedling. So a true laser only does one of three things, and I don't have a favorite because it really depends on what your biggest issue is. But I think the most undervalued workhorse of lasers is really the vascular laser, also known as a pulse dye laser, because so many people have underlying redness that you don't even realize you have until you clear it. And when you. When you treat that superficial redness, it gets rid of that superficial inflammation over time. Your skin texture looks better, you're overall more smooth, and you need less to cover up on a daily basis. That I think it's one of the most undervalued lasers in our arsenal that people don't use as often as they should. And I think a lot of people could benefit from it.

If somebody wanted to get that laser, is there something they should be asking for, like a type of laser?

It's a pulse dye laser. It's a V beam. Most practices either have that or they have an xlv. I think the XLV is much more inflammatory inducing than a pulsed dye laser. And very honestly, and this is not because it's my practice or anything less is more even with this, I would rather you do it less aggressively and do an extra treatment or two versus trying to blast your face with it and get a lot of swelling and inflammation from it. So it's a very much a slow and steady. And I would say make sure they take pictures, because even this morning I had a patient come in for her third treatment and she was like, I don't think I see a difference. And I popped up her first picture from October and she was floored. You know, she was like, oh, my God, I didn't realize that. It's actually so much better. And it was just because I Had the picture to prove it, you know, so make sure they take pictures.

And then with her, she's already come in for three treatments. I think a lot of times people think, okay, I'm just going to get this one time and my skin's going to be better. How many, like, what laser treatments do you think people really need to be doing and how far apart to see results?

That's also a really good question. And I think this, I want to tie it into the major fate for one quick second because which is the skincare line. When you're dealing with pigmentation, there's an easier end goal to be reached because there's only so much pigment that you have or that you can target. But when you're dealing with redness, as long as your heart is beating, that redness, if you are somebody who flushes, who has that underlying rosacea flush, is going to come back and thank God for that because your heart is beating. So you are going to have to consider a laser treatment for redness more as a quote, unquote way of life routine. Something that you're going to have in your, in your, like, maintenance thing of every year, once a year, eventually. Does that make sense because you want to. You're targeting the redness because it's going to come back. It's not a cure. The laser treatment is not a cure. It is suppressing how bad the redness is and it is minimizing the extent in which the redness is going to stay on your face as you get older. So instead of developing large blood vessels around your nose, by the time you're 50, they're probably going to be smaller ones, but they're going to be much more manageable because you've treated them along the way. Make sense?

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

You might reach an end goal where you're like, wow, I'm really happy. My pigment has been, you know, really, I look much more. Even with a skincare routine, I'm keeping it suppressed and therefore I don't need it as often. I myself haven't done a laser treatment for pigmentation in over a year and a half. Ever since I've been using products to consistently treat it. Now, I could benefit maybe from one laser treatment if I have a big red carpet or something, just to give myself that skin, that extra glow. But I don't feel the need to be dependent on a laser treatment to get my skin to where I want it to be, you know, so you have to approach it very differently when you're thinking of pigmentation versus redness. And when you're treating redness in the very beginning, like my patient that I was telling you about, she's never done anything. So I usually do it once a month. On average is like three to five treatments. And then I tell them, if you feel like your redness is under control, let it go. And let's see. At the first signs of that redness creeping back, we hit it again with the laser treatment just to see how much time you can get out of it. But you don't always have to do four or five treatments in a row. It can end up becoming one treatment once a year, a treatment every eight months. I mean, the patients are really the ones directing that treatment plan.

Another YouTube video that I saw was Skincare trends you wanted to leave behind in 2022. But I want to see what you think people are going to start doing more of in 2023.

I think social media has a way of influencing people. And in the mid teens, 2000 teens, it was massive lips and then it was the I situation situation, thank God. Which was short lived. And I think now in 2023 a lot of people are going to be coming in asking about buccal fat removal, which is interesting because that was a trend that started in 2018, 2019, and it very, very fast fizzled. But it's back and I feel like people have already started asking me about it and I roll my eyes about this trend the same way I rolled my eyes about the lip lift. It's not for everyone. And you honestly need to cherish the fat in your face, especially when you are young because as you age, it's your face or your ass, if your ass is super skinny, your face is going to take a hit as you get older. And so you do not want to jumpstart that from a young age whatsoever. So I think the buccal fat removal craze is unfortunately one that's going to have more time in the limelight in 2023, but needs to fizzle and die pretty fast.

Yeah, I'd be so nervous because I think as I get older, I want more in my face. I want my face to be full, full and plump and look great. And I wouldn't want my face to be hollow as I'm getting older and then the skin just kind of hanging a little bit more. So it's definitely, I'm like, people are not thinking about this long term because you're actually taking something out of your cheeks.

100%. 100% it's like they're all looking for that, like instant gratification, that shocking before and after. But they're not thinking of their life as a longer term thing or their face and their life as a longer term thing. And they're not thinking about what's going to happen in my 40s, 50s, 60s and beyond.

You know, some of the things you were talking about were trends that were dying down, like bigger lips. Do you see any other things that people are coming in to do less of or reversing?

They don't get asked as much anymore about sculpture in the butt. You know, that's something that has really. And I don't know if it's because obviously I'm biased. People who come here already know what I am and what I stand for. So people do not ask me, although like maybe five years ago they would ask me to inject their butts and stuff. It's no longer a request that I get asked as much anymore. I think people are still into the jawline, very much so. But I understand that wanted. I don't think that's necessarily going to fizzle as much, but I'd probably say definitely the body stuff has calmed down.

Yeah. And then speaking of the jaw, I think in chin, something I've been seeing a lot of lately on TikTok is lipo on the. Underneath the chin. So at what point do people. Can people go to a dermatologist to try to figure something cosmetically versus when is it surgery?

Liposuction gets rid of fat, which is a very obvious statement. And the submental area is not always just fat. There is a large subset of people who've always had a quote, unquote weaker jawline because genetically they have a weaker muscle. And if the curve of your jawline neck is much more rounded and softer and you're like, I want to go in for lipo. And someone says, yes, and you do the lipo and you're like, wait, this didn't do much of a difference. And I have seen this in my practice from people who've gone to try to get lipo. And I told them not to necessarily. They're unhappy because ultimately it's the anatomy of their muscle that is weaker or quote, unquote, softer than that strong Angelina Jolie or even you. You have a beautiful jawline and strong snatched jawline and neck. You just have a stronger muscle and it's a, you know, it holds up better. Some people are a little bit weaker and ultimately the only thing that's going to Help them is not even lipo. It's picking up that muscle with a surgical procedure. So I think you have to find somebody who is not going to just try to make a quick buck out of you. And you have to find somebody who's aesthetic, you respect, whose opinions you value, who can really take you down the right road. Because I've had patients who went against me, tried to do the lipo, they're still unhappy and ultimately they realize that they have to probably do something a little bit more invasive, unfortunately for them, and they were hoping for a quick fix. So you really do have to find the right person by your side who's guiding you in the right way.

Yeah, I think that's a really good advice of thinking of like what is the actual like structure and are you going to be happy investing? Because it's kind of, it's like the buckle fat thing. Like you can't go backwards again. So really making sure you're going to the right person who's giving you good advice. A problem area that I have for me is my neck and I have necklines and it's just our jobs of being our computers and phones all day. So what can we do for the lines on our neck?

And you're talking about the horizontal lines.

Yeah, the horizontal lines.

So they've always been there. But I do agree that they're probably a little bit deeper today than they were maybe like for somebody who was in their late 30s, 40s, like 15, 20 years ago because we are always looking down. So things that I like to do for the necklines are I love trying PRP doing a series of three to at least see if somebody actually responds to it. And PRP is when we take your blood, we spin it and it has all the growth factors in your platelet rich plasma that can really help to stimulate collagen production. And I do this in conjunction with microneedling and light radio frequency, meaning I don't go very deep because I do not want to melt any fat or try to go like and concentrate the heat in the neck to melt fat. So you have to make sure you're going to somebody whose technique you trust because you can melt fat with radio frequency or ultrasound energy if it's done incorrectly. And so I like to combine PRP with that. I also think Radiesse is a very interesting one, that when you dilute it, it has biostimulatory effects. So it can also help promote collagen production as well. So those two treatments I've seen really, really Good results with on the neck for the necklines, but you're always going to have a little bit of something because it's a natural fold to get on your neck.

Yeah, I think I just noticed it so much since I'm always like holding my phone like selfie style and like talking and then I'm just looking at my neck so it's just more noticeable.

I know, I know and I know exactly the angle you're talking about, but most people don't look at you in that angle. So yeah, I will tell you that it's really something that are for your eyes only because you're the one who turns on the camera at that angle. And the other thing you could try to do is retinol on the neck is a huge question mark slash approach with caution. Most people will not tolerate retinol on their neck. But you can try by putting a thicker moisturizer first and using a very light over the counter retinol, not prescription, and using a quarter of what you would use for your face. And doing that very slowly, consistently over time can help with the quality of your neck or even using something with growth factors like slightly skin. Medica has their TNS here and you can use that on your neck to see if it slowly helps build over time. But approach with caution.

Okay, so a couple questions I want to hear from you. What you think a sample morning and nighttime skincare routine should be and all the steps and then where does the major fade line kind of fit into that routine?

Okay, so again, I think before you start your skincare routine has to focus on your problem 100%. If you're trying to simplify and really just get like a very basic vitamin C in the morning. And sunscreen is what you really want to incorporate in a morning routine and then any kind of product that's targeting your problem. So personally for me, I always think about pigmentation first. I think it's because I see my patients all day, every day. So I use my serum, the major fade hyper serum in the morning. I follow it up with the active seal, which is a vitamin C C ester moisturizer hybrid. So it's a moisturizer, but more than a moisturizer, it has vitamin C in it as well as peptides. So I use those two underneath my sunscreen. And then at night you want to exfoliate maybe three times a week or so at night. And on the nights that you don't exfoliate, you want to use a retinol followed by a serum and A moisturizer that targets your problems as well. So that's why I do. I use my Major Fade exfoliating flash mask three times a week. I use a prescription tretinoin on the nights that I'm not using the flash mask. And then I follow it by the hyperscerum and the Major Fade Moisturizer, the active seal. Because from my perspective, my products deliver the hydration that I need in addition to delivering the results that I'm looking for to target pigmentation. So that's sort of how I think of a morning routine and a nighttime routine. And if I were not using my own products, then it's very simple. A vitamin C in the morning followed by some kind of hydrating moisturizer and sunscreen. If the vitamin C is that hydrating moisturizer, it's a win. And that's why I did the active seal. And then at night, you definitely want to think of like exfoliating acids, whether it is an aha or BHA three times a week or so. And then retinol on the nights that you're not doing them. So sort of how I already do it. And then any sort of targeted serum and thick, rich moisturizer that's going to allow your skin to restore itself overnight.

Mother's Day is around the corner. I can't believe it. I love getting something special for my mom and also so many of the friends I have in my life that are mothers too and just something to let them know I was thinking about them. So mark this on your calendar. Mother's day is Sunday, May 14, so get a head start on gift shopping. One of my favorite things to get my mom is perfume and I know that she loves it and it's just nice to smell her and have this like memorable scent that she smells like. And one of her favorites is Ms. Dior. I actually went to the Rose Fields where they make this fragrance and I loved all the craftsmanship and love that went into creating this. It's got the most wonderful scents in here. And if you want to get her an extra special gift, they have a three piece set. And another Dior beauty product that I love are their skincare products, which are amazing. There's a four piece set of their firming skincare discovery set, which is a really great gift for moms. Give some love to the moms in your life by finding exactly what she wants. So if she's a beauty icon, a workout buddy or chocoholic, or all of the above, Macy's makes it so easy to tailor your gift to the taste that she likes with their gift finder, so check out these great ways to shop and more inspo@macy's.com giftfinder if you already know that mom loves adding to her handbag collection, adores a matching PJ set, or is looking for a new signature scent, shop by gift category or you can shop by gift list. Macy's has unique curated lists like for the mom who has Everything, gifts that are already wrapped and ready to be gifted and For Grandma. And if mom loves big names, then find the latest from her most favorite brands. Whether she's loyal to Coach or Dior perfume or Godiva chocolates, Macy's has all of her top favorites, so head over to macy's.com giftfinder to make this Mother's Day an especially memorable one. Now we all know how important it is to hit your daily hydration goals, but why does it always seem like we must pick the between something that'll hydrate us properly or something that's tasty but full of sugar and who knows what else? We shouldn't have to pick between staying health conscious and taste, right? Well, now we don't, thanks to Air Up, a new drinking system that flavors water through scent. AirUp is the world's first water bottle that harnesses the power of scent to bring flavor to your water. You're getting all the benefits of drinking plain water with the added enjoyment of flavor. Air Up's natural flavors excite water like never before. Simply pop on a flavor pod, fill it up with water and sip. That's it. All the benefits of drinking plain water but made tasty. From watermelon peach to wild berry and cherry, Air up has a flavor pod for every palate. Air up is the hydration solution I have been looking for. Find your flavor today by clicking on the Air up link in the description. I know you talk about like just limiting exfoliation. Like three times a week is enough. But how does somebody know if they've over exfoliated their skin?

Their skin will be speaking for them. Like, it would be inflamed, it would look red, it would be slightly irritated. It's very interesting because I have a lot of patients who come in in the beginning and they're like, my skin's always red. And once I dig deeper, I'm like, okay, how often are you using your P50? Twice a day. I'm like, okay, maybe we should like quit the P50 for a little while. And then they freak out when I tell them that I'm like, no, genuinely just give it two, three weeks. Don't use it just for two or three weeks. Maybe use it if you really need to, once a week at night for the next two or three weeks and see how your skin does. And it's more often than not people's skin, it just turns around. And so if you think you're always red, if you think you're always inflamed, if your skin feels very superficially textural and you've never really had acne, then maybe just slow it down on how often you're exfoliating. Because it's almost like people discovered how to exfoliate in the pandemic and they took it like they do everything at home a step further and just overdo it, thinking more is better. But just try to quit it or like reduce how often you do it and you see that your skin is going to calm down and get better.

And if it needs to calm down, do you suggest people just kind of eliminating any of those steps from their routine and just doing like a cleanser moisturizer till their skin kind of feels more balanced again?

100%. 100%. Like, and I tell people even putting Vaseline is probably the best thing you could do. But I usually get people looking at me like I'm crazy and they don't want. So I tell them, okay, the next best thing that I genuinely love, if you're not somebody who has actually known allergens to skincare ingredients is Aveeno's Calm and Restore. They have a gel moisturizer which is extremely soothing. It's glycerin based. It has, it's fortified in oats and it is very, very calming. So really focusing on just nourishing your skin, giving it back that hydration and really just kind of like calming it down without adding extra actives or steps in your routine.

And you just mentioned glycerin, which I know you love. What are some of your other favorite ingredients right now or ingredients you love that maybe haven't, you know, taken off yet that people aren't so familiar with?

I. It's funny because I, I'm not a one ingredient lover. I think the biggest thing, and I think the pendulum is swinging in skincare. It's about how ingredients are formulated together.

Yes, yes.

And it's never, it's never been a single ingredient story ever. So ingredients that I love for, like to really give you back that, like plumping, hydration, you know, yumminess of your skin. I love ceramides. I think they can work wonderfully. I love panthenol. I think squalane is a beautiful ingredient as well. Very, very elegant when done correctly. When you're talking about brightening, I think alpha arbutin is one that is great. I think kojic acid is another wonderful ingredient. It can be irritating. So if you're very sensitive, be careful with Kojic acid, but it works wonders. I love glycolic acid. I'm obsessed with glycolic acid. But it's very irritating to people who are very sensitive because it's the smallest. Aha. That there is. And so it goes deeper. So you have to be careful. So, you know, just be approached cautiously. But again, for me, it's really about the marriage of ingredients and how ingredients are put together to deliver a certain result, and never about a single ingredient story.

Yeah, it's really like, so much more nuanced than that. It's like the overall formula. And really, I think too, it's like, if something's working for you and your skincare routine and you're doing something, just keep doing it. Like, don't listen to what other people are saying online. If it's working for your skin and your skin looks great, just continue with the products that you're loving.

I mean, that's rule number one, always and forever, you know, Like, I'm never gonna argue with what's in front of me. If it looks good and it's working for them, then you keep doing you. And it does. It's not. I don't say that in an aggressive way. I say it in a very loving and genuine way. Like, if it's working for you and you love and I'm making this up, please do not do this. Putting lemon juice all over your face and yet you look like you're glowing. And I can't argue with your skin. I'm not going to tell you to stop necessarily doing it because it's clearly working for you, you know, So I think that's like, always rule number one is, you know, listen to your skin and see how your skin is reacting.

Okay, so you are very busy. I feel like you have so much between your practice, the brand social. How are you splitting your time between all of these things?

It's really like, it's honestly the constant struggle trying to figure out how to split my time and what is a quote unquote balance. And I literally just changed my patient schedule for a new schedule starting this week. Try to figure out, like, is it better for me to see patients half day, three times a week versus like full days, four times a week, you know, in order to kind of accommodate social and the skin care trial and error and being open to trying different schedules and different ways of doing things in order to see what sticks. And I think personally I like to stick to something for three months to give it a fair go to see if it's actually working for me. But in general, when it comes to social skincare, in my office, social media, I'm very, very proud of myself and very grateful that I've never adhered to a schedule. I've always gone on Instagram whenever I felt like it and a lot of people in the beginning were like, well you have to do it every day, five times a day. And I've never actually done that. So I've always done it on my own terms. The only one that I've adhered to a schedule has been YouTube where I promised myself I'm going to do it every week. And I accomplished that and I was very proud of myself. But now I'm going down to twice a month for a long format video.

Well, you have a lot going on and it's all great and you're creating so much content for us. And I've seen seen now too. Like people are saying that a lot of content will shift to longer form content this year that they think on YouTube it will be where people are spending more time again, that they don't want as much bite sized TikTok content, that they want this longer form and then with skincare because you're really teaching and educating on things that are lifelong skincare, you know, habits or products or routines. So it's like these videos will last a lot longer and people can watch the same video a year from now and still take the same advice from you 100%.

Like my advice hasn't really changed and it's just saying the sky is blue in 30 different ways. But the main message is always the same. So to your point, yes, hopefully the videos will stand the test of time and be able to live longer. But we'll see. I mean I think balance and you know this and I bet you probably you have way more experience than I do, especially with owning a brand. And I would probably love to get some advice from you. How do you balance it all is the golden question. And from my perspective, I don't think you ever balance it all equally. Every day the same way I think it's, you know, I view balance as like a week long thing. Like I try to make sure that I give my kids enough time every week. I try to make sure I give my marriage enough time every week. I try to make sure I give my practice enough time every week. I try not to like sweat the daily the day to day, you know. And it feels much more reassuring when you look at life in a week long view when you look back every single day. Because you're always going to fall short every day on something.

Yeah, every day it's like a different focus of what we need to spend our time on. And some days it's the practice will need more love. And another day it's like the brand has something that needs your focus. And you started with the Major Fade line. So what's next for Pillow Talk Derm?

It's very exciting. It's one that I've worked on actually even before the Major Fade line. So it's been in development for like two years. But it's a very fun product. And then, you know, I really do want to make sure that when you think of Pillow Talk Derm and the skincare line at least it's really, you know, having tried and true, you know, solutions for specific problems and simplifying your skincare routine and then having occasionally these one offs that are really fun to use that can be universal products that everybody can benefit from. And so right now that's that one that we're currently studying. And then I'm working on something that's much more focused, you know, for the end of the year or early next year.

Amazing. So where can everyone buy Pillow Talk Derm and follow you?

So they can definitely follow on social at shereen idris on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube at Pillow Talkderm on TikTok and Instagram and they can purchase the products currently on plutalkdurm.com amazing.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thanks so much for listening and be sure to subscribe to my podcast and rate and review because it would mean so much to me. And follow me on Instagram at marianahewitt to see what episodes are coming up next. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.