Shereene Idriss: Dermatologist and Founder of Dr. Idriss Skincare

And we're back, folks. It looks like Jim from sales just got in from his client lunch and he's got receipts.

His next meeting is in two minutes. The team is asking, can he get through his expenses in that time? He's going for it.

Is that his phone?

He's snapping a pic. He's texting Ramp.

Jim is fast, but this is unheard of.

That's it.

He's done it.

It's unbelievable. On ramp, expenses are faster than ever. Just submit them with a text. Switch your business to ramp.com. hi, everyone. I'm Hilary Kerr, the co founder and chief content officer of who, what, where, and this is Second Life, a podcast spotlighting women who have truly inspiring careers. We're talking about their work journeys, what they've learned from the process of setting aside their doubts or fears, and what happens when they embark on their second life. Today on the show, I'm speaking with dermatologist and founder of Dr. Idris Skincare, the one and only Dr. Shirin Idris. Back in 2018, Dr. Idris became frustrated by the rising misinformation around skin care and decided to take matters into her own hands. She began posting educational Instagram stories from her bed after her days spent practicing dermatology and her following of nerds, as she lovingly calls them, began to grow. Soon, one of her followers aptly dubbed her the Pillow Talk Derm. The name stuck and today she has an audience of over 3 million followers and runs her own thriving dermatology practice, Idris Dermatology. On top of creating content and running her practice, Dr. Idris also has developed a skincare line. That line, which is called Dr. Idris Skincare, sold out in less than 36 hours during her first presale and is now very thankfully available at Sephora. Today we're chatting about Dr. Idris seven year medical program, her journey, getting comfortable talking to camera, and why she recently rebranded her skincare line from Pillow Talk DERM to Dr. Idris Skincare. Dr. Idris is both hilarious and vulnerable in this episode, and I am so, so excited for you to hear from her today. Now on Second Life, it's Dr. Shirin Idris. Sherene, you ready to do this?

Yep.

Okay, so on this podcast, we like to start at the beginning. What did you study in school? And much more importantly, what did you think you were going to be when you grew up?

First of all, thank you for having me.

My pleasure.

But what did I study in school? I went to the GW 7 year BA M D program because I Knew that if I didn't get into medicine, I probably would flip flop, given how much, you know, I can get easily distracted by things. And so I wanted to make sure that I was set on a path. And I was very fortunate to get accepted into that program. And because I only had three years and all of these requirements I had to fill. I did a BA in biology. But because I was accepted to med school, I also had fun. So I took like improv, acting, theater, I had the luxury of having fun as well. But if asked me what did I study, and I got a BA in biology because of all the requirements I had to take in order to finish my three years.

Talk to me about this program because that seems like so intense to make that sort of decision at that point in time, I would imagine, or to even know that something like this existed. Walk me through what this seven year program looks like because it feels extremely speedy and also probably forever for you.

It felt like forever at 17, but I do think there's a lot of intergenerational trauma where I felt the need to just survive. Being an immigrant's daughter who ran away from the war. I remember being eight years old, calling my dad in a panic. He was at work being like, what am I going to do when I grow up? And he was like, you have a long time to think about that. Can we talk about that at dinner? And so I think it was always something that I was concerned about, like, how am I going to survive? Because I lived through it with my parents coming to the US with really nothing. And I come as a background from a family of doctors. So my grandfather was like literally the first pediatrician in the Middle East. My dad was a pediatrician as well. His whole life he thought he was going to take over his father's practice. And then the war happened and they had to run away. And then here they had three kids. Now, obviously they influenced us, right? My dad and my grandfather, I never knew, but the whole story, but they never dictated that we had to go into medicine. And so it was something that I had always thought of because of the nature of my family. But I did try other jobs. I tried a desk job. I hated it. I hated sitting under fluorescent lights. I was like, get me out of here. I thought maybe I'd be a teacher. I tried to be a camp counselor. I was not good with the parents. I was like, why are you raising your kid this way? I'm not good with the parents. So I feel like it was like trial and error. Younger age Until I was like, you know, let me just see if I can get into the seven year program. If I get in, it's meant to be. I'm just going to do it and at least I'll have my degree. No one can take that away from me. And if I don't get in, then we'll have to pivot and figure it out. And I always had that mindset, even as a kid. But the seven year program, to answer your question, is a three year undergrad program where you're accepted at year four into medical school. So you get accepted from high school. And so I applied at 16. Whoa. Yeah, I was really young. I applied at 16 because I graduated at 17. And so I knew I was young, but I was like, if I don't do this for myself, I don't know where I'm going to end up, because I'm a loose cannon. And so I thought to myself, let me secure that for me. Luckily it worked out. But yeah, it was a wild road. And then you have four years of medical school straight, so at least you have that guarantee that you're going to get into med school, which gives you the chance to really enjoy your undergraduate years because you're not so worried about the stress of the MCATs and applying and all of that stuff. But there's other negatives that come with it as well.

Like what?

Tunnel vision. That's why I had to take a year off midway. I literally saw myself being a baby, you know, amongst all of these adults in med school and freaking out that I might have failed an exam as if it was the end of the world. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I need a reset. You know, I really need to take some time off to get, you know, things put into perspective. And I was 21 when I did that. So I took a year off between my second and third year of med school to just see life from a different angle and to kind of get different experiences as well.

It's so interesting because on one hand I could imagine a program like this. It's a clear path. There's less anxiety to your point because you're not worrying about like, oh, will I get in? But also so much pressure at the same time of like, to be that young and making that decision and feeling like you have to see it through too. It feels like both comforting and stress inducing all at the same time, which.

Is such a duality, you know, it was very stressful. And there were many times where I did want to quit and my dad, God, Bless him would be like, listen, you're in prison for a few years, all right, suck it up. But then I don't remember who it was who told me this analogy, but they took a pen and they're like, if you look at the road like this, it's easy to get lost in the now and think it's forever. But when you look at your life, like the beginning of the pen and the end of the pen, there's a beginning and an end. Your life is just a blip right now on that spectrum. So just get through that. You're still young. You're still so young once you graduate that if you have that, no one can take it away from you. And I do think that was the immigrant mentality, where he literally ran away and just grabbed his diploma because he knew that if he had his diploma, he could prove that he was a doctor, right? And he could actually start working. And so I think that, you know, was really something that really marked me. You know, watching that, living that, seeing that, and telling myself, listen, especially as a woman, right, I want to be able to have something that I can own, that no one can take away. So I feel like I'm glad that I had a strong family support to help me see it through, because without them, I could have seen myself falling off, you know, and not really sticking to the plan.

So talk to me about that year that you took off. What did you do during that time? How was it fundamental to becoming you?

So it was between my second and third year of med school. And so when I applied to the seven year program, I wanted to go into plastic surgery.

Really?

Yeah. I love working with my hands. I used to create 3D puzzles before. 3D puzzles are a thing. And so I was always working with my hands in some kind of capacity. And I thought, this is what I want to do. I want to go become a plastic surgeon. And it wasn't until I in undergrad, where my sister had some weird rash, eczema flare up, and she goes, do you want to come in? There's a dermatologist. And I had nothing else to do, but I was thinking to myself, derm is so terrible. Like, they just pop pimples all day long. Like, what is this? And so I joined her and I fell in love because I was like, wow, she can see her rash. And this doctor is helping her help herself and she wants to help herself. So one thing I hate about medicine is that you have to convince people of their problems. And I felt with dermatology, there's no convincing to be done. Like I just, I'm here to help because you subscribe already. And so that for me was like a turning point. But then also walking into that practice where they had all these devices and these lasers and these things and they were doing so it just was like, it felt so exciting that you can help yourself in the process and the doctor gets to know you and it's not just a one hit wonder where I operate and then adieu, see you maybe in 10 years. You know, it felt like a much more intimate thing that you would be helping somebody through something and also making them feel better. And so for me that was like a turning point. And then like I said, in tandem. Right after first and second year of med school, I felt tunnel visioned. I felt like I'm too immature for my own good and I need to get a different perspective. And so I decided let me take a year off. And since derm is something I'm interested in, it's so competitive, let me, you know, help myself. Especially given that GW had a bad track record in matching into dermatology at the time. Really, they had not matched in a few years. Normally it's like schools have a department. GW's Durham department didn't exist fully back then. It had like fallen. And so I didn't have a strong home base supporting me and my dreams. So I was like, let me go live this year elsewhere with a strong department, learn from people, make sure that this is truly what I want to do, really understand it before I fully decide I want to commit and also get life experience. And so I took a year off and I went to Boston and I did a year with. It's called the center for Connected Health, which was an MGH program affiliated with Harvard where I really focused, focused on the online. Ironically, I didn't even realize it, right. Talking about online support groups and how the online world, how people can help themselves and interconnected. And now looking back, it was so connected with the world that I'm currently living in. But that's what I did. But from an emotional standpoint, my father got really depressed that year. He thought he went bankrupt and he was helping support me that year I was literally making. I remember it was like $168 post tax a week. Luckily he had paid for the apartment for the year, but that was it. And so it was a year in which I couldn't ask him for anything. And I had to figure out how to live off of that money while truly making the Best out of that year, to help myself. It was very rough, but it really did help me realize how much I wanted it because I decided instead of getting a second job, right, I decided I'm going to focus on winning that research paper so I can get an award. And I would turn off the heater in my apartment and come back eight hours later in the cold of Boston to turn it on. Go back to the lobby to heat up in the gym, the communal gym of the building, to try to make sure that I had some heat before I went back upstairs. Like, I would count how many pastrami slices I would eat at night to try to make sure that I was under budget, like, literally things like that for a year. But it really did for me, and I'm forever grateful for that experience.

But it all adds up to something in the end.

Yeah, that's true.

Okay, so you go back, you end up graduating magna cum laude, which is amazing, and then you took an internship that turned into a residency at Tufts, is that right?

So once you graduate med school, everybody does an intern year. So it's a little confusing because we call it internship, but it's not an internship. It's your intern year. It's your first year post graduation into the world of taking care of patients. And you can be an intern in internal medicine or pediatrics or general surgery, or you can do a transitional year where you do a little bit of everything, which is what I did. And I did a transitional year of surgery and internal medicine at a program affiliated with Tufts, but it was called Shattuck Hospital. And it was almost like a prison hospital. There was an actual prison ward. And it was also another life formative.

Experience, I was gonna say. Why did you make this choice?

I didn't pick it. So when you're applying for residency, you go through a match. And because dermatology is so competitive, I hyper focused on that. And I didn't really care about the intern year. So I guess it was my last choice. Even when I matched, I was like, wait, what program was that? I had to just double check. And I was like, oh. But it was definitely eye opening.

What do you actually do in that role on a day to day basis?

Like everything you would do in a normal hospital, you have patients who are on a hospital ward of a floor that is just purely dedicated to all the prisoners or the inmates of the state that go there. But, you know, someone has a pneumonia, someone has a uti, someone has a fever, someone's septic. Like you're taking care of them like anyone else.

And then after that year, how do you then transition into dermatology? Yeah, exactly. Because it's unusual, or seems unusual to me as a civilian outsider, where you're like, I have all of this experience, but not actually in the direct thing. I mean, all experience is additive, right?

Yeah.

So what do you do in a residency then? That's different. It's just focused on what you want to specialize in, correct?

Yeah. So the dermatology residency is three years intense germ training, where basically every day you're a dermatologist and you're taking care of patients from A to Z with, you know, mundane things like acne, rosacea, whatever, to people who need, you know, most surgery for skin cancer, to people who have really debilitating autoimmune disease that's also affecting their skin. So you're putting them on biologics and then you have a cosmetic clinic every now and then where you're helping people through the cosmetic lens. And so it's multi encompassing with surgery and general medicine and general dermatology and even pediatric dermatology. You have a kids clinic. So there are multiple facets to dermatology. And you would experience all of those angles depending on which program that you're in. And so I was lucky to have experienced a lot of them through the program at Tufts and then you graduate to go practice into the real world.

When you were going through that, did you have that moment where you're like, I am in the right place. This is what I should be doing? Or was it still like a. I think this is what I want to do, because, you know, like, the idea and the reality are not always the same.

Yeah, no, there was never. I think this is what I want to do. It was more. This is definitely what I want to do. I'm in the right place. But holy shit, there is so much more than I thought. It's so much more than just salicylic acid. It's much more in depth. And there is a lot of detail, you know, because so many things look alike. As dermatologists, our job is to differentiate the things that look alike in case it's something else, but also to pattern recognize because it's the pattern that says the whole story. So there's a lot.

Okay, so another three years of that. This is so much school. I forget about how much work it takes just to, like, get to day one. But you did you get to day one in the professional world. You started as a dermatologist on Long island, and Then moved to Wexler Dermatology in 2014. Yeah, talk to me about what that day to day was like, how it felt to actually be practicing in the real world. Because it's just a whole new world, right?

It was a whole new world. I was just excited to get a paycheck where I could have more money than just like for groceries. But my first job was a job, like you said, in Long Island. I thought I was getting a job in Manhattan, only to show up the first day at work where there was a car waiting outside. And the guy's like, okay, we're gonna take you to our satellite location. And I'm like, okay. So I get in car, and it was an hour and 45 minutes, which gives you like almost more than a three hour commute daily. And yes, they were very nice. They had a car. It sounds all lovely, but for somebody who gets car sick, it was not lovely. But my husband, who's very much a person who believes in your word, I was ready to quit. I was like, can I quit? Can we turn back time? Can we turn the ship around? He was like, you gave this man your word. Give him a year, give him what you said. And then let's see, maybe you love it. I hated it. I hated it. I hated it because of the showing up car sick, but also having to see 40 patients a day. It was just like, you had to keep up with the insurance and the bills and this and that. And it was like, oh, my God, where did I land? And so when I got the email from Wexler, I was like, oh, where is that? So I googled it. I had no idea who she was. I was like, it's in the city. Woo. It's a couple of blocks from my apartment. Yes, we have to make this happen. And so when I showed up for day one, at that point, I had understood, you know, her footprint that she had left on the cosmetic world.

She was one of the first major derms to have, like, her own product line. And it was so exciting to see a woman and not only that, but a doctor dermatologist, like, fronting all of this. It just felt very groundbreaking.

Absolutely. I mean, what she's done is phenomenal for the field. And so I felt so lucky that she chose me to come in to take over her practice and to teach me and pass on that wisdom onto me. And so I feel like it was just like the world of possibilities opened up and it was a lot to learn, not just in terms of, you know, dermatology. And cosmetics, but techniques and running a business. But like with any big personality, there's a lot of big learnings that go in every direction. At the end of the day, you're going to have people who teach you things that you wish you had never learned the hard way. But as long as you recognize those learnings and you make sure to make a difference in your own life and as you perpetuate the future, you don't recreate those issues that were put onto you, then I think it was well worth the learning experience. And I've learned so much through that experience that I would do it all over again. It really did thicken my skin. It made me who I am, not just as a physician, but also as a business owner. Yeah. So there was a lot of positive things that came out of it for which I will forever be grateful.

So you stayed there for about three years, and then you moved on to Union Square Laser Dermatology. What made you decide to make that switch?

I was fired while pregnant.

Well, that.

So that was it. I was fired.

You've been really candid about being fired in social media, talking about that part of it.

I feel like I've been very candid. Once I opened my office, I never spoke about it openly while I was working there because I never wanted to create any sort of bad blood between that owner and the other owner. And once I opened my own, I was finally free to speak however I wanted to speak because I was on my own terms. So I opened in 2021. That's when I got candid about it, because everyone can learn from someone else's experience. And so I felt, if I'm going to talk about it, it's not for you to pity me. It's for you to see that you could still do stuff despite life throwing massive hurdles at you and hopefully, you know, inspire somebody else to feel empowered that they could help themselves as well. Yeah, but I was fired. I was, I think, 10 weeks pregnant after having gone through IVF several rounds, which was, for me, even, like, the cherry on top. Because when you're going through that, you're, like, super emotional as you inject that progesterone sesame oil shot into your right butt cheek at 8am you just want to, like, curl up and cry. But it was a very tough time. And very honestly, though, my husband would joke, you're unemployable, Sherene. I think it's because it's either people can tolerate me or they're just like, what is this? You know? And So I never believed in living life with a facade or a front. Like, you are who you are, and it's your living life for yourself. So, you know, either you take me or you don't. And so he would joke, you're just unemployable. And so I would say, but that's not really a joke. I want to own my own office one day. So maybe, you know. And so when I was approached through Wexler, the goal was to take over the practice. And so that was really why I had joined, initially thinking, okay, this is going to be my forever home. I'm done. And then once I got, you know, laid off or fired, I really wanted to start my own thing. But, you know, when you want something that you feel like the current is going against you, it's just. Just not right. Like, you're hitting a wall, but you're still trying to bulldoze through this out. It's just not working. I felt that pretty quick. And my husband, God bless him, is my number one supporter, was like, shreen, you just went through so much just to get pregnant. Do you really think you want to own a practice? And I was like, yes. How hard can it be? Like, I know what to do. Okay. Being naive, by the way, is, like, a huge blessing. So he was like, yeah, but I think maybe let's just focus on one thing at a time, and maybe you should look for jobs. And I was like, no, I want to start my own office. So we started looking, and then I get an email from Union Square saying, hey, we heard you left Wexler. We may have a position open. Do you want to come in? And so I told my husband, but he goes, you should just go and meet with them. What are you going to lose? Yeah. So that's how I took that job. It was more of a, you know what? Maybe he's right. Let me pop this baby out. Let's see if I want a second, if I can even get a second. Yeah, let's enjoy this stage of life without the burden of financial distress, because we just went through this whole IVF thing, which was crazy, financially draining and stuff, and. And let's just see. And so that's how I took the job. But when I went in, I said, listen, full disclosure. I want to start my own office. I just want you to know that my intentions are clear. I don't want you to be misled. And so that's how I joined that practice.

Radical transparency.

Yeah. Completely like, you just state the elephant in the room and I was really upset about joining that practice in the beginning because I was like, I felt like I let myself down, that I didn't open my office. But in hindsight it was the best thing because I was financially free. And I think had I not joined, had I opened my practice in 2017, pillow talk derm would never have been what it is.

It's interesting when people make that call to do their own thing too, because it's like you need a certain amount of experience in the world that you are working in, in the industry and you are still very young in your journey, but you also can't be too far down the road because if you're too far, then you're entrenched and there's, there's money and it's like there's a very critical period of time where I feel like the timing is right and it never hurts to have just a little bit more day to day experience. Right?

A thousand percent. Like, everyone thinks that we have to like race against time and be the youngest person to do this, especially having been 16 when I applied to med school. Getting in at 16, being in med school at 20, like I had this thing like I could do it before anyone else. So it was kind of like life was slapping me in the face and teaching me a lesson that, like, we all have our own timing in life and you have to learn to just appreciate it and learn how to adapt rather than try to constantly go after something that's just not resonating or working for you. And that has been a lesson that I've had constantly throughout my life, I would say. And I'm very grateful for having those obstacles because it taught me how to slow down in order to grow. Like, you have to go slow to go fast. It was a blessing.

And at the same time, it also was the era in which you started doing a lot more social media and when you started building your personal brand and when you started talking to the camera. This is where Pillow Talk Derm comes from. What prompted you to have any interest in, let alone engage with, social media and talking about all of the things, all of the BS in skincare and dermatology and really educating people and giving them that information, because for a lot of folks, I think if you're at the factory all day, you don't want to go home and talk about the factory at night.

But that is true. And it's funny that you say that because I thought I would be done after two weeks. I thought I would explain it, you would get it we'd move on. So six years later, we're still going. Is like, shocking to me that I could still be talking this much. Listen, 2018 was a very different time than 2024. On social, there were no derms really doing anything. On social media professionals sort of look.

Down on it in some ways, which seems so insane now.

Hillary. I got a few DMS that were sent to me by accident from fellow derms making fun of me. Cute. Who I still treat very correctly and politely. And I shall never name those names, but I got a few DMs sent to me. Like, look at. Who does she think she is? What is she doing from bed? Like, oh my God, how unprofessional. Like, literally. Listen, it was 2018. I had been fired less than a year prior. I was working in this place that was like a factory setting for germs, right? Check in, check out. And I was kind of like, fed up with the bullshit of life and very honestly fed up with the bullshit of the beginnings of misinformation surrounding skincare. It was truly just the beginnings. I didn't even know it was the beginnings, but I was like, what the hell is wrong with people? And my nurse at the time was fed up with me constantly complaining. And she was like, just go on social and vent. And I was like, I don't. I will never do that. Because I had never spoken in front of a camera. I hate the sound of my actual voice. She was like, shirin, you have like five followers or your family and friends, just go online and do it. And I was like, okay, fine.

Thank you, nurse.

God bless Brittany. But it was in July. My husband had fallen asleep. My baby now is probably, I think, six months old. She was finally sleeping through the night. It was 9pm I'm like, woo. I got time. So much free time now. You know that feeling when you finally have an hour? Yes. And so I was like, let's go online and do this thing for Britney. And literally I saved it as a highlight on my page because it was so bad. She thought I was drunk. My sisters thought I was drunk. I was like, I'm not drinking. But sure, it was just funny for me how bad it was, but I was still giving the right information. And so I thought to myself, okay, let's see. Because I got a few questions, I'll answer them again. It's actually helping somebody. I don't even know who this screen name is. So let's see. And so that's how it was born. It was a very novel Thing in a different time because no one was really doing it. I was getting bombarded with random messages from people who didn't know that they were DMing me saying, what the hell is she doing? Me being like, I don't really care. That's the beauty of being at rock bottom. You really have no shame. And I think that's another lesson that I learned to hold on to is like, who cares? Like, have no shame. As long as you're doing something with the right intention and the right mindset with the right information, who cares? Have fun with it.

So at what point did there start to be some structure around it where you started to think, oh, I should have a schedule or I should have a plan or clearly this is resonating, I should keep going. How long does it take to go from like, oh, this is a one off thing that I'm doing to oh my God, there is an audience for this and I need to keep going?

There still is no plan and nobody believes me. The only thing I have remained structured with is more or less committing to showing up on YouTube once a week at 10am but there will be days where I disappear from Instagram social and there will be days where you see way too much of me all at once. And depending on the week, if I post on the grid, I might post twice, I might post four times, I might post once. I don't know. It kind of depends on my mood and how I'm feeling, the flow of the whole thing. And I think people think either I'm lying because I'm trying to hold onto my secret sauce, or I'm trying to like. But no, there's truly no plan. It's just it is what it is. For better or for worse. It's because I don't want to feel so rigid in my creative thought process or what I feel is like something that should be said now because this is blowing up on social and it's not right, or yes, we should emphasize this message. I don't know what's going to happen. So I like to kind of live it in the moment. And not that there's anything wrong with this, but I made a very conscious decision. And I would joke about not having sponsorships. They were coming in, I was just rejecting them. But I made a conscious decision early on that I don't want to live my life financially dependent on social. It's not my goal. I'm not trying to get rich quick. I left a lot, a lot. I'd never have to eat pastrami again, a lot of money on the table. And I'm not saying that so that you guys can, like, oh, sing my praises, but I did that very consciously because I never wanted to feel beholden or in a chokehold when for me, it was truly a pleasure. And because of it, I was able to gain more confidence. Speaking. And I never wanted to lose that because that was the purpose of it for me, and that's still the purpose of it for me. And seeing other people gain that confidence is really what's driving me and what drives the skincare brand and what drives me in my practice. And so, like, I got a sponsorship from a butt paste company, which was very exciting because I love butt paste. And I was like, this one I gotta take. And I could literally just take an old piece of content that I had done from my heart, and they wanted to reuse it, take it, enjoy it, God bless. You know, you created a beautiful product. So, like, that one was, like, exciting. But, you know, like, I don't necessarily care to get a beauty campaign. It's not my goal. I'm not trying to bank and create intergenerational wealth through social. And so I think as long as you know what your goal is and you're clear on it, then it's easier not to deviate from the path.

And it's interesting, too, because it feels strategic in all kinds of ways, like, oh, I'm building my brand so then I can launch my own practice. And I'm using all of this information that's coming in so I can think through products and formulations and seeding and questions and all of this. And yes, all of those things are also byproducts of it. But it's so interesting that that was not the goal. And I love it.

No, like, I knew I wanted my practice. I had no idea what social was. I never knew I wanted the skin care. I think the irony is, at 16, I was trying to get my life on such a clear path. Like, boom, three years undergraduate. Boom, four years Maryland. Boom, three years this, that. And then I realized quickly, wait, I have zero control over my life. I ended up in a prison hospital. I went to, like, a first job that took me three hours commute every day. I got fired while pregnant. Like, I married a guy who lived in London, and I got married long distance. So I feel like you have zero control. So I've actually now gone the full other extreme. I like to have zero plans, but I feel like when you have less plans, you're more open to different Directions in which life will take you. And that's when the best things happen. Like when you don't expect it because it's serendipitous and it makes sense. And you have to listen to your gut.

Okay, let's get into opening your own practice. At what point were you ready then? That second time, the time that you actually went and did it, how long were you thinking about it before you actually made the move? And then. And what skills did you feel like you had? And which skills did you feel like maybe on the business side you did not have?

I don't think I was ever fully ready to start it, to be honest with you. Okay. Knowing what I know now, but that's okay. Because you learn to live and pivot and grow. And you're never gonna be in a stage where you're like, this is it. March 12, 2022. I'm ready. No, no, no, no, no. It doesn't work that way. Like, you're never really ready. And I think that's okay. What pushed me was the pandemic. I decided very early on, I'm going to stop working. I had like a large following in Italy at the time. And they were really messaging me like, you gotta stop, you gotta stop. And I had a five month old baby, the second one. So I remember telling my husband, he's like, you're insane. I'm like, no, no, I think I need to like, stop. And it was like kind of end of February, early March. And so I was like, that's it, we're buckling down. And so I stopped working, stopped my paycheck, stopped everything. Like, no more patients. I don't know when I'm coming back. So I stopped working early on in March, and I had like a few months of nothingness. Just in terms of professional. Right? Yeah, that's when One Night Stand was born. I did pillow talk during one night because I needed some kind of like, social interaction with another human other than a baby. And so I was like, let me just interview people on live. It's easy from my bed. But also I realized I need to go back to work in order to be a better mom. I was not good for my kids in their face all day long. I'm like, why aren't you writing? At 2 years old, to my daughter, it was not healthy. So I had to go back to work. But it was also during that time when I had time off that I started to like, imagine. And I remember it was a friend of mine who was like, shereen, just Imagine the perfect world for yourself. Like, this is the time to kind of daydream about what it is that you really want and try to visualize it and try to see if you can see it through. And I was like, you know what? She's right. This is it. It's either now that I opened this office because I'm not having any more babies, or is it going to be when I'm 10 years down, after I've been established to your point, with the golden handcuffs and, like, a financial situation that I can't necessarily take the risk because my kids are going to college or whatever it is.

Like, yep.

So I was like, it's kind of now. And simultaneously, when I did go back to work, my husband and kids ended up staying in Connecticut. We had gotten an Airbnb. The apartment was too small for all of us. He was working from home. God bless. We had a nanny who didn't want to go back to her apartment because of she had roommates and she was scared of catching it from the roommate. So she wanted to stay, like, locked in this bubble. So she helped. And so I was living in New York City during the week and I would go back to Connecticut on the weekend. So I wasn't living with my family. So I had a lot of quiet luxury, which was amazing for a new mom to have time to, like, sit down and think, because I was going to work, coming home, sitting in an empty apartment and just thinking. And I thought to myself, let me just see what spaces are available, because the city's a ghost town. Yeah, I think we saw like 40, 50 different spaces. And then I was just like, I'm not finding it. I'm not finding until I found it. And it was the last space we saw. And so that was like, September 2020. And I didn't sign the lease until December 2020. And I thought, okay, lease is signed. Clock is ticking. We got to build this place out. And so they were done with the build out around November of 2021. So it took them six or seven months for a 3,000 square foot space, which was like, crazy in New York at that point.

You had a following. Were you concerned at all about, like, where are my clients going to come from? Like, how is this going to work? You know, how am I going to deal with billing and the day to day of, like, all of that piece of it?

Absolutely. And just for, like, context, this is now 2021. I had been practicing for a few years. I had an established patient base, but I was terrified. And Yes, I did have a social media following. I don't remember how many followers I had at the time. Maybe it was like a hundred thousand or something, but I didn't know what that meant.

Right.

And I remember freaking out that second or third week of August. We're about to open the phone lines, and it's actually on social. You could find that video on my feed where I was like, guys, what if nobody calls? Like, truly, like, hyperventilating. Like, what if. No. Because I was so scared to solicit patients, I didn't want to cause any problem. I didn't call a single patient. I didn't tell anyone I was leaving. I was just like, I'm just gonna announce it on social. And at 9am we sat there for, like, the first 30 seconds, the phone didn't ring. And I'm like, oh, we're fucked. Like, dumb decision. Can we go back?

You know, Rewind.

Just kidding. Yeah. And then the phone rang, and then the second one, and then the third one. And we had 900 calls between 9am and 1pm we couldn't keep up. I had to turn off the phone. I had to, like, hire anybody. Like, literally, like, this girl I knew, I was like, can you come and help? And she's like, sure, I'll be there. And she came that afternoon to come help.

Oh, my.

I didn't anticipate that because I really thought it would trickle. I didn't know you were expecting a.

Trickle, not a wave.

Yeah, like, I was expecting, like, okay, today was good. Tomorrow's gonna be better. We're gonna keep working, you know, chugging along. And so it was truly a genuine shock.

What has been the biggest learning of having your own practice that has surprised you?

Nothing is easy. Nothing is easy. And you're only as good as your team, and the people are everything. And it's funny because being a physician, especially in an outpatient setting, you function on your own, in a sense, because you're seeing your patients, you're in and out, you're dictating the day, but you're not really seeing the behind the scenes of the office and the flow and the management and all of this stuff. And you kind of think, like, how hard can it be? Because I'm the one making the money for the practice, you know? But when you take that other lens through the other side of it, it's like, whoa. Like, it's only as good as the people who make it. And so it sounds naive, but it was a surprise.

How was it building your team Out. Because to your point, people are everything but thinking through of, like, the first handful of people who we hired. That's the scariest moment of my life to this day, because I'm now responsible for someone else's livelihood. I mean, it made me sick to my stomach for a while. How was it building for you?

Totally the same for me. So I had already been introduced to Tiffany. She was still an undergrad. She was still an intern at the time, but I was like, okay, Tiff, it's gonna be you and me. We're gonna open an office. She was like, okay. So it was like, okay, I had a buddy, you know, and then the manager who was at Wexler, she was, like, at the front desk when I joined Wexler, and we only overlapped for a week, ended up going to Union Square, and then we had an overlap there. And then she left years before me. And she called me, being like, whenever you're ready, call me. So she was on board day one. And so I was like, okay, I know these two people. Let's go. And so we were just the three people taking the phone calls because I didn't think anyone. I didn't need anyone. I had Tiff and Marie. Let's go. And so when I hung up the phone and I called this friend to come in, and she was like, okay, I'm in. I knew she was going to be a keeper for life, and she is now the manager of my office. I literally feel like it worked out, in a sense that I had created over the years these people who, like, believed in me and I knew them, and there was a mutual trust and respect on both sides, and those people ended up evolving and growing with me.

That's so wild. So what would you say are the biggest factors that have helped you grow your private practice? Because, yes, you had patience already, and, yes, you had a social media presence, and, yes, celebrities love you, and yes, and yes and yes. But oftentimes, I think from the outside, we think certain things as civilians are, like, the key turning points, and they might not necessarily be. So what was that for you? Like, what were the things where you're like, oh, wow, like, this actually really moves the needle for me.

So PR is great, but it's not going to keep patients coming in through the door. It might give you some exposure, but it's not a guarantee, especially not today anymore. So if you're relying on somebody to help you build your practice or your business, this. It's not going to happen that way. And it's Funny, because I've struggled my whole life with how I sound, my voice, my accent. And for me, it was more the real thing that really pushed the needle was just being yourself. And I go into that because it was always a question of being polished, which I wasn't, that I was trying to fight. And when I just gave in to who I was because I really didn't care anymore, that's when things really started to open up for me, which was. It's like the classic tale that, yeah, be yourself, but it's true. Like when I was truly just raw, that's when it fully started to really resonate.

Okay, so I want to talk about products because as you know, I am a big, big, big, big fan of everything that you create. At what point did you start thinking about, okay, in addition to having two small children and a new business and this growing practice and all of the things that happen on social media, I'm also going to create my own, own line.

So I never knew I wanted to start a skincare line, but it came from the community. And people were asking and I remember thinking to myself, why are they asking me? There's so much other stuff on the market, like, why do I need to create something? And as I was kind of questioning myself, I was approached by Brand Incubator, which is like these big companies that create, like a lot of different brands and they slap you like a monkey and you're like the doctor image of the company, you know? And I remember being like, like what? Like, these people want me to head a skincare brand for them. And so I was like, let me just explore this, just to see what it's about. Because I had no idea what a brand incubator was. I didn't know anything. So I met with them a few times and I met their terms and I saw their paperwork and I was like, this is terrible. You basically want to use me, my names, my credentials, my time, my knowledge, my face, my name, and give me nothing. And I remember his answer was, well, you don't understand. It's going to cost you at least 7 to $10 million to launch a brand. And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm.

Going to show you a spite launch. Yes, a spite launch. I love it.

Anytime anybody tells me no, I'm like, go fuck yourself. Yeah, especially because it was like the typical toxic asshole vibe. So I got annoyed. So that's sort of what really triggered something in my head, like, let me see this mother effer how I could prove it wrong. So that started the wheels turning. And I started, like, understanding, okay, so you have a chemist and you have a contract manufacturer. Then you have a warehouse, and you have a supply situation. But you have to really create the formulas. Do you own the formulas? Do you not own the formulas? I went down this, like, rabbit hole of trying. I'm like, oh, shit. Maybe he was right. Maybe it is a lot of money. It ended up costing a lot and taking a lot of time, and it took a lot of hours, and it took a lot of tears, and it took a lot of thought. It ended up being a lot to start. But what really was the catalyst when I was like, wait, wait, do I do this or do I not do this? Because this was happening in parallel to the office being built out.

Oh, my gosh, so much money going out the door.

Yeah, I had Covid. And I was locked up in my room for two weeks. And as I had done all this homework of, like. Like, being, like, angry and churning along, right, My angry little self, there was, like, a skincare drama that was happening in the world where, like, there was a mislabeled spf. And I was like, screw this. Who is scared of all this bullshit? Like, who's over it? And if you're, like, tired of it, do you think we should start a skincare line? Like, I really want to know. Is this something that's, like, you don't want another person online to start a brand, or is it something that you guys are interested in? Like, just let me know. And it was overwhelmingly yes. It was over 10,000 votes in a poll. It was probably the highest number of people who've ever voted, and I have way more followers today than I did then. 99% voted yes. And I was like, okay. But then I emailed my lawyer, who I had already had because of the office, and I was like, hey, buddy, we're starting something else. He goes, are you sure? And I was like, yes. And then I paid the cosmetic chemist and I decided I was going to hire because I wanted him to be on top of the formulations, on top of the private lab that I was using. Because I didn't trust the private lab. I felt like they were giving me a little bit of, like, sloppy seconds because they had bigger clients. So I hired my own chemist to make sure that he understood their lingo. I remember when I walked out of the room, my husband was like, you've been busy. There's a lot of charges on our credit card. And I was like, yeah, you know, I had an idea. And so that started at the same time, you know, towards end of 2020. And the skincare line launched in September of 2022.

How did you think through product development and like how everything would work together because the line sold out in the first 36 hours. That is bananas.

Yeah, so I underestimated that too, clearly. Yeah.

A wonderful problem to have. I mean, better than sitting on like tons and tons and tons of product that is going bad.

So the presale in September 2019 was meant to be for us to test, test the systems to make sure that our website works. If you click buy, you buy. Does the warehouse fulfill the order? Do you get it in time? Like that was the goal of the pre sale. It wasn't supposed to be a woo, we launched crazy splashy announcement. And so when we sold out, it was like, oh shit. Because everything that I had, I was meant to have for the launch. So it was like, oh my God, how are we going to get everything going within a month? Month? Because you can't launch a brand and not have anything for like three months. So all of this stuff was like, oh my God. I underestimated and I was too scared. That was a very eye opening. Like, okay, we really have an idea here. Let's really make sure we're doing this right. And in terms of thinking of like the major fade line, it was truly. How did I want to start was based off of my practice. Listen, I see like nearly 100 patients a week. And so when I think from a cosmetic standpoint, people come in complaining about their line or their wrinkle on their face, but that's, that's not what's aging them or making them look tired. It's 8 out of 10 times. Their color, their overall tone. Are you even, are you bright? And so I thought to myself, lasers are great, but lasers are only as great as the skincare that's helping sustain it. And patients beyond the four walls of my practice can achieve something before coming in. And how great would it be if they're already prepped and now the laser is the cherry on top rather than the means to an end and then.

Ensure that they're going to be able to continue those results at home with, with product that I know will work a thousand percent?

That's really what drove me. And I also had melasma. And so that was part of my story because I did have a 12 step routine. Now everyone has melasma, it seems. And so it was a multi ingredient approach. It was a multi ingredient story. I was trying to Simplify their life with a simplified solution that was delivering all of these ingredients at effective levels, especially when married together, which is more important than an individual concentration. And I wanted to make sure that people really saw a difference because that's the beauty with skin. You could see what's happening if you're consistent and persistent. And so it was a clear angle to start with, especially given my practice.

Well, hyperpigmentation, it's obviously something very near and dear to your heart. And I love it because I too feel like aging is a privilege, but not necessarily uneven skin tone, not fun.

Like when my melasma creeped up and my 22 year old cousin who's like this hot little thing showed up at my door, I was like, like, what happened to your face? And I was like, screw you. I just had a baby. And my Melanie. Yeah. And it hit me like, is it that dramatic of a difference? And yeah, it really was. And so that was my own personal sort of like, oh, moment. And I could really understand patience in a better lens at that point. But yeah, it was definitely the patience, my own personal thing. And quite frankly, if you look at trends and you see the questions coming in through Pillow Talk Derm online, a lot of it had to do with how can I best help myself if I can't tolerate a retinol. And so they're clearly asking me, how can I look, quote unquote, more youthful or more radiant, anti aging wise if I can't use a retinol. And so that was sort of the trigger.

I love it. So can we talk about your rebrand recently? Because you're talking about second life, some pivots. You recently rebranded the product line from Pillow talk DERM to Dr. Idris. So talk to me about the pivot and why you decided to do that.

So Pillow Talk Derm was a name that was truly born from the community. It was a follower, you know, a nerd, like I call them, who gave me that name. When I was debating what are we going to call the line, I remember I had interviewed on One Night Stand, John Dempsey, and he was like, you have to call it Pillow Talk Derm if ever you do a line. And so that remark stuck in my head. And so I decided, let me ask the community and let them vote on the name. And they voted. It was was pretty split down the middle. That was like almost like 50 to 48%, 52% wanting pillow talk Derm. And that was like music to my ears because having experienced narcissism from other people in My past life, I felt having my own name would be very narcissistic, ego driven. It was never about me. I wanted it to be out the community, about the people who make the skincare line up, the people who make up the brand. Like, I never wanted to be face forward. Like that, for me, was a nightmare, which, you know, nightmares come true sometimes. Sometimes. But it's a blessing, and we'll get to that in a second. But my husband always says, everyone has a plan until life, or in this case, like a Goliath punches you in the face. So I had a plan, and I was really happy skipping along my way with my plan, but I got punched in the face. And I think one lesson to be learned about being an entrepreneur is how do you know when to give up? And it was not easy. I remember when I got the cease and desist mammoth of a document on my table. I went home that night and I was bawling, like, couldn't catch my breath, crying. And it wasn't because, oh, my God, I spent all this money on Pillow Talk Germ. How am I gonna. It wasn't that I felt like a part of me was gone.

Yeah.

And someone was, like, ripping it away, and they had no reason to. Like, when I think of it now, I get very upset.

Understandably. So.

It was something that was done out of genuine joy that was born from the practice, from the community. And for me, I know I sound dramatic, but it was truly like somebody ripped something out of me. But again, I think, like, life, like, you learn how to pivot, and you have to learn to, like, go in a different direction. Like, what's more important, a name or the essence of what you're trying to achieve? And that's when I realized I'm putting my ego here if I'm going to keep fighting for this. But I kept fighting because I wanted to see how much I could get and how much I could do. And I realized quickly that it's not going to work. So I decided, you know what? We're going to continue discussing this face to face, but behind the scenes, I'm going to rebrand. And we tried. We went through many iterations. Are we going to call it Made in Bed, or are we going to call it Undercover Derm? I'm under the Covers. Or are we going to call it, you know, Pillow Fight Germ? Because I loved Pillow Fight Derm. I wanted Pillow Fight Germ. I thought it was really funny, but everyone was like, no, you cannot call it Pillow Fight. Anyway, I wanted to Call it all these different things. And then we spent so much money on a new branding agency, on a new naming guy, and all this stuff. Like, I'm telling you, how much I bled was insane. Until finally we just landed on my name, because I was like, that's the only common thread. And I don't want it to feel like I'm reinventing something, but it's not living up to what it was. And the one thing I'm not reinventing here is me. And I felt like that was the only thing that would serve the brand right.

And no one can take that away.

Yeah, and no one could take it away. And so that's how we ended up with my name, which was my nightmare. But honestly, it was the biggest blessing in disguise. And the reception has been remarkable. Like, if you think of our launch, the reception was way more successful to the relaunch, which is insane because there were no new products. It was just a brand name change. And I was terrified about relaunching with a new brand name, thinking, this is the end of it. Okay, guys, I'm announcing the end of everything. But it was honestly just the beginning. People tried to convince me of that, and I really was like, okay, you guys don't know what you're talking about, but fine, we're just gonna. You know, I think it's gonna be the biggest blessing for the brand and for the community.

My heart goes out to you. That's so painful. But at the end of the day, it's still you. It's still your product.

I know. And the beauty of it is I still have the rights to the Pillow Talk Derm blog and the community that we have, and that's never going to go away. And so am I still the Pillow Talk Derm? Absolutely, yes, ma' am. But I think the products, being my name are for somebody who doesn't know what the community is, because I'm so in it in my mind. But there's a bajillion people who don't know what that is. And so I think an introduction through Dr. Idris is a more interesting introduction anyway, to the world that we've created. And it's just a matter of how you look at it.

So how do you think about newness? How do you think about the future? Because you have your practice, you have this amazing line. I know you only want to release products when they are right and when they are good. You also. We don't even have time to get into all of the other things that you do, but, like, you have so many aspects of your career. What becomes more important as time goes on? How do you think about newness? Where do you want to spend the most important currency, which is your time?

That's a very good question. And again, I don't know where I want to spend my time because it's a day by day, I have blocks blocked out for, okay, this is time for the marketing meeting for the brand and this is time for the admin meeting. But I also have a lot of time for my brain to just be. So I think that is something that I don't want to take away. But when I think of newness in terms of products, it's never about skus for news. I'm not trying to just. Just pump crap out just for the sake of having stuff out. I want to create things that are truly going to make a difference beyond the walls of my practice, where people can really help themselves and to really simplify that for them. Because it's very confusing when you don't have a basic understanding of what's out there, or even if you do have an understanding of what's out there, it's very confusing. I mean, even for myself, sometimes I'm like, what is happening? So I feel like I just want to streamline problem solving for people and see people really feel better about the themselves the same way I did with the major fade line and have fun in the process. Like, the deep buffer has been so fun. And it definitely helps with small problems you don't even know that you have. But when people get it, they just, they cannot unget it. And so that's also something that's part of, you know, the growth of the line and the brand that I definitely want to keep alive.

I love it. I look forward to seeing all of the newness. It will just make my face happier. So thanks ahead of time.

Yeah, exactly.

Okay, so we like to talk about mistakes on this podcast because everyone makes them. And we tend to give sort of like the pretty filter Instagram version of that, of our lives and our careers. And ultimately, at the end of the day, I don't think that helps anyone. Like, it's nice to see people that you look up to and it's great that things are going well, but where we actually learn, or at least it feels approachable, is like when you realize, oh, someone made this mistake and they still kept going. So tell me about a mistake that you've made at any point in your career and what you've learned from it.

I have a tendency to Trust than verify, which is not necessarily the best when you're building a brand. And so if I could go back in time, I would say great to trust, but verify first before you trust. So that's something, I think that's very important for anything that you start, whether it's a business or in your professional or personal life.

So as someone who has made a number of pivots going from being in a general practice to starting your own practice and then starting a product line which again, like these are very different skill sets, some overlap, but still a lot of learning along the way. You know how to do this. You have embraced it, you have figured it out. A lot of our listeners are interested in making a change. Maybe it's in their same industry or moving industries or whatever it may be, but they haven't done it quite yet. What advice would you give of someone who's standing there? They know they want that difference, they know they want that change, but they're just a little bit scared.

I'm not going to give you advice. Just do it. Because I don't know your life situation. That's not fair. And that's kind of like the bullshitty advice, like believe in yourself. Okay, great. But I don't know, like your life situation.

Yeah, but how are the bills getting paid? Yeah.

I think the biggest thing that I think I could say that is going to be helpful is being cognizant and aware of of what you do know and also being aware of what you don't know. Because when you're aware of what you don't know, it's very easy to get the right help at the right time. But when you're not aware of what you don't know and you think you know it all and you could do it all, then you are guaranteed to fail. I know what I'm not good at. And it's a lot of things like I can't pay my bills on time, so I need somebody to pay the bills to make sure that we don't go under, you know, so it's finding the things that you know you're just not good at and making sure you're hyper aware of them so that you find the right people. Because ultimately it takes a village and it's all about the people who help you make your vision come alive.

Last question is my favorite, which is if you could go back in time and give your younger self some advice, what would you say?

You may be right, but not all battles are worth the fight and ultimately you will win. But you don't need to fight each battle that comes along the way. But honestly, I love that fact that I had that in me because it pushed me to keep going. So I don't know. So that sort of, like, I will show you is sort of what. So keep that spunk alive. But you don't have to, like, keep slamming it in somebody's face.

You're like, do exactly what you did. But, like, just take it down, like 13% sometimes.

Yeah. Like, you don't have to be so obvious all the time. You know, it's okay. Leave some things to the imagination. Oh, my gosh.

I love it.

It.

I love it so much. Thank you so much for taking the time. I mean, really, just like, as a lay person, I just think your products are amazing and I love the content that you make. I love everything that you do. You're just a dream, truly.

Thank you so much. I'm very grateful. And again, thank you for all of your love and support throughout the years.

That was dermatologist and founder of Dr. Idris Skincare, Dr. Sherene Idris. For more inspiring interviews with women like Dr. Idris, head on over to secondlifepod.com where we have so many more for you to peruse. If you like today's show, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review us. We love seeing you spread the word on social. And now you can tag us in your posts. We are ecoondlifepod on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. We always want to know who you're interested in hearing from on the show. So send in your requests to helloecondlifepod.com or you can DM us on Instagram. I'm Hillary Kerr. The show is eondlifepod. Our DMs are always open. I'm Hilary Kerr and you've been listening to Second Life. This episode was produced by Hilary Kerr, Summer Hammeris and Natalie Thurman. Our audio engineers are at Treehouse Recording in Los Angeles, California, and our music is by Jonathan Leahy.