Dr. Shereene Idriss on building a community and rarely accepting brand partnerships

Hi and welcome to the Glossy Beauty Podcast. I'm Sarah Spurcfiner, senior reporter for Glossy Pop and your host for Today's episode featuring Dr. Sherene Idris, practicing dermatologist and founder of the skincare brand Pillow Talk Derm. Though being a practicing doctor or brand founder would be more than enough to keep any one person busy, Dr. Idris also has a large social following who want her take on buzzy ingredients products and how to build a proper skincare regimen. Best of all, Dr. Idris built this following in bed, hence the name Pillow Talk Derm. Often in pajamas, she dole out advice with her signature no BS pov, making followers laugh in the process too. When she announced the launch of her brand in late 2022, those very followers, or as she calls them, nerds, sold out the presale in less than 36 hours. In our chat, we discuss her skepticism about brand deals and why she can still count those she's accepted on two hands, how her patients inspire the product pilot derm launches, and why her first three were all about hyperpigmentation. Hi, Dr. Idris, thank you so much for coming on the Glossy Beauty podcast. I am so excited to have you here. For those who don't know Dr. Idris, she is not only a very well respected and followed on social media dermatologist, but now the founder of her own skincare brand, Pillow talk derm. But Dr. Idris, before we start talking about your brand, which is on the newer side, how long have you been a dermatologist? When did you become a dermatologist? And how does one become a dermatologist that is so well known on social media because, you know, you are, you know, seeing patients all day, so that that seems difficult to do both.

It's like I'm like, I joke that I'm a circus monkey, you know, where, you know, I'm like playing the cymbal or whatever it is while seeing patients. But hi, first of all, thank you for having me. I am a practicing dermatologist in New York City and it feels like I've been practicing for 100 years, but I've been practicing for over 10 years. I finished med school in like 2009. And the sad part is I actually didn't realize I started med school 20 years ago, nearly in 2004, up until the other week when somebody was asking me for advice on how to apply and I had to take a step back and be like, holy shit, that was 20 years ago when I started med school. And I'm like, How ancient am I? But the reality is I started very young. So I, I was very, very fortunate to get into a seven year program from high school. So I finished high school at 17 and I attended GW, which is the George Washington University in Washington D.C. and I joined GW through the seven year program where we get your BA or BS in three years and you're directly accepted from high school to med school. So it's a guarantee that you're going to go to medical school. So I started med school at 20, and I remember when I finished the finals, the first round of finals, everyone was, yeah, we're going to the bars, let's get drunk. And I was like, I'm going to go home and have my milk and cookies, because I didn't even have a fake id and I lived at home. So I was like, all right guys, see you Monday. I was not able to attend, but that was probably to my benefit. And from med school. Med school is four years long. You apply to a residency program where you want to specialize. Examples are internal medicine, pediatrics, anesthesiology, dermatology, obviously. And so you have to go through that application process. And the dermatology training, all in all is four years. So you do one year of either internal medicine, pediatrics, or a combination of surgery and internal medicine, which is what I did. And then you do the dermatology training, which is three years after that. So all in all it is 12 years. I also took a year off. I did research for a year, so that added to the time frame. But definitely it was worth it because I was so young and I felt like I needed to take a step out to gain perspective because I, I realized how young I was and I wanted to have a different perspective from the outside in, rather than always being tunnel visioned, which is very easy to get once you're a doctor going through the process. Because it's always, what am I studying for? What's the next step, what's the next test, what's the next fellowship? So I did that during medical school. I took a year off to just focus on research. And then I moved to New York and I've been practicing ever since I graduated.

When you started practicing, I'm guessing you weren't at the time thinking about building a social media following. Did that come later?

I mean, absolutely not. I remember when my friend introduced me to Instagram, I was like, this is dumb. Who wants to see pictures of what you eat? Joke's on me now. But that's literally, I think if you really scroll back, the first picture I ever posted, it's still on there because it was a personal account. It was like a picture of a steak, I think, in some restaurant in Boston, because I didn't know what to post about. I'm like, who cares? But, yeah, I mean, and very, very honestly, when I started social media, which was back truly in 2018, that's when I started doing. Taking Instagram more seriously. And it wasn't just pictures of food or where I traveled. I had no intention of growing it to build a patient base. I started it on a whim. I started it because I was really mentally in a bad space. I was fired while I was pregnant. I had had my baby. I was finally coming out of that, like, fourth trimester, which is really real once you have a kid. Having been fired in a new practice, trying to build back my patient base, making sure that patients could find me because the old practice wasn't necessarily sending them my way, and really trying to make sure that I was staying on top of my mental sanity while raising a baby after having gone through ivf, I was really like, perfect storm, hormones raging, IVF fired, trying to find a new practice, landing at a new practice, and trying to make sure my patients can find me. So I wasn't exactly, like, you know what I mean, Picking daisies on a field in, like, happy mode, right?

Yeah.

And so I turned to social because it was truly a dare from my nurse, who at the time was like, a, you have a fear of public speaking, but, B, you're always venting to me that patients are coming in with the wrong information or, like, not knowing the correct things, or, like, you're even shocked that they don't even know what they got Botox or fillers at their last appointment. So why don't you just go on social and vent so I don't have to hear you vent for the hundredth time today and air your grievances, and maybe somebody can learn something from it. And I don't have. And I'll win because I don't have to hear you talk, you know, so much. So I was like, okay, fine. So I took her up on the dare. And that's how stories started. So I started Instagram stories talking about, like, okay, guys, this is Botox. This is filler. Understand the difference? So when you go to your cosmetic provider, you know what you're getting and you're not being taken for a ride. And I started it from my bed because I always lay in bed. I am big chested I need to get a reduction asap.

Same.

And I get back pain. Yeah, we can talk about. I can talk about boob reductions all day, every day. It is, like, my new passion. But I definitely. I'm gonna do it. I've been wanting to do it since I was 19. But anyway, I was told, wait till you have your kids. Which was good advice in hindsight. But I lay down. I have back pain, so I'm always kind of laying down in bed. And it's a joke of the family, like, can you get out of your bed? But I started doing stories from my comfort zone, which was be. And so I was laying down, and then one day, a follower was like, who was. Actually. It started off, I had, like, 300 people who have followed me, and they're family members, you know, but one of them was a friend who was like, I really like these pillow talks that you're doing. It's like, you're like, the pillow talk derm. And I was like, that works. Hashtag pillow talk derm. And I don't even know what the sticker does. To this day, I don't think anybody clicks the Instagram sticker that I put on the stories that says Pillowtalk Dermot. But that's how it was born. And it started as a way for me to reach people beyond the walls of my practice so that they can be educated, so that they can be empowered, so that they know what's up and they're not being taken for a ride. And it shocks me that today we are over 1.7 million nerds across all three platforms who tune in all three.

Instagram, TikTok, YouTube.

YouTube.

Okay.

Yep. And I should call my nurse. She moved to Philly. But be like, hey, do you tune in? Are you still listening to me? Because it really started because of her. And so that's sort of how. I mean, that's exactly how social started for me. So there was truly no ulterior motive. I wasn't trying to grow my patient base because I already had one. I was just, like, you know, at the time, making sure that they found me. But I didn't even think social was going to be the way that they would find me, because why would they want to follow their dermatologist? I thought was weird. Right. This is 2018, before derms are on social.

Oh, and dancing on TikTok, which is a whole other conversation.

It didn't exist.

It didn't exist. No.

You know, like, that TikTok didn't exist at the time. Right. And so for me, it was literally like, let me just talk. If someone wants to listen, if they want to know more, join the conversation. And truly, that has continued to be the core of my own personal mission and, and what I tell now, the brand and the people who work on the brand side, the brand's mission, it's not to sell product. It's not to shove product down people's throat. It's not to add noise to the market that already exists. There's a lot of noise. It's very loud. It's really to empower the people who are following now the brand to know more about what it is that they have and how they can best help themselves through our products and beyond. And so that really is something that I drive through every day. Whenever there's a new hire or we bring someone to the team, it's like, listen, don't try to sell product. And they're like, what? And I'm like, no, that's not what we do. Because I hate that. I hate being sold to. And I want people to really know more so that they can make educated decisions about what they're buying and purchasing and doing next.

Two things, one quick anecdote. I have to send you the screenshot. Literally Yesterday my mom DM'd me one of your reels. And I go, mom, I'm recording a podcast episode with her tomorrow. She's like, oh my God, that, like, what are the odds? Like she, you know, I'm like, obviously I know doctor. She's, you know, she doesn't know one germ from the next. So that you are, they are clearly being seen and getting out there. It was something about how it was real about how skin care routines for, I think particularly for older women don't have to be so anti aging routines don't have to be expensive. And she appreciate it resonated. But I think that is something that I would venture a guess that that is part of why your following has become so large is that you don't push product. You and even now with having your own brand, which we will get there, you know, you are very candid about which ingredients you think are bs. And I think that like, you know, at the risk of sounding, you know, dramatic, that can be a quote, quote riskier, you know, path for a derm to take. Like working at editorial. I have seen how many derms are paid by brands to talk about products that, you know, who knows what they really think of them? Let's just put it that way. How have you sort of Maintain that integrity.

I guess I'm going to tell you this. I feel very rich in my heart and I don't say this to sound cliche, but I don't care for the materialistic stuff as much in my life. I'm grateful that I have comfort. I'm grateful that I can. I'm grateful that I work hard, but it doesn't drive me, truly. I think that is the nature of the game for me. Number two, as my husband likes to joke, I am unemployable. That's why I have my own practice and I have my own line. If you tell me you have to say X, Y or Z, I will retaliate. And I just do not. I'm not a fucking puppet. I'm not a billboard. I'm not an ad. I'm not a puppet. I have my own opinions. Like them, leave them, take them, don't whatever it is. But I'm gonna say what I wanna say, how I wanna say it. So do not try to own me is the second thing. And it was very hard, very honestly, to see all those dollar signs pass me by when I'm still paying student loans. I just finished part of my student loans last weekend because I realized I was paying an 8% interest rate on that. Congratulations, I have to pay that off. So I paid off part of those, but the rest, where it's like a 2%, I'm still paying because why not? But literally, it was very hard to see all that money just kind of go. But at the same time, the only person I have to answer to when I go to sleep at night is myself. And I never wanted to be owned. I never wanted to be a CeraVe doctor dancing on TikTok or a cetaphil derm or whatever, Whatever. Any brand. Like, they're great brands. I have nothing against them. I actually talk about them all the time. But I didn't want to be a derm that was owned. I didn't go to school for 12 years so that I could be a walking ad. I could have just gone into like, acting or modeling to fill that role or fill that void, you know, But I didn't want to. Not that I could have been a model, FYI, I did not fit any of that criteria. But acting, you know, who knows? However, honestly, I will say, like, it's not something that interested me. And I really do love what I do. I love seeing patients every day. Some of them I could do without, but I love the majority of my patients every day. And when I Don't love them. I tell them, I don't think I'm for you, and I don't think you're going to enjoy this experience if I don't feel like I'm for you. And I want to live my life in a way where I can do the best that I do and offer the best that I can offer without feeling like, at the end of the day, it's dollar signs or I owe it to somebody or I have to answer to someone because we're all going to go to the same place. We're all going to go six feet under or spread around. Right. We're not taking our money with us. So if I have enough to be comfortable, to be happy, to offer my kids an education and to take them on one or two trips a year, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. So that, for me was really. I think what saved me is that I feel very content in my heart, and I didn't feel like I needed to chase fame. I didn't feel like I needed to chase dollar signs. I didn't feel like I had to scratch that ego itch. And I just was doing it because I love what I do. And it does hurt when I tally up the dollar signs that I've left behind. I could have had, you know, whatever, you know. But I have my mental sanity, and I go to sleep really comfortable because there's no one breathing down my neck or me feeling like I didn't live up to someone else's expectations or I didn't perform as well for someone else. It's all for me. Like, I'm in competition just with myself.

Yeah. So you've literally never done brand partnerships or you used.

I can count them. I can literally. No, actually, I'm gonna do one, like, with Nutrafol, because I like them and I have them in my practice. Right.

Yeah.

But I've done. I can count them on one hand, maybe two now. And it's usually brands that I've already spoken about, brands that I already adhere to or subscribe to, brands that I think are interesting. And I make it very clear. Do not try to feed me the words that you want me to say, because I won't do it.

Yeah.

You know, I'll just walk away. And then I do bring in the community. Like, when I did SK ii, I asked them, should I do this? I've never used their essence. It'd be interesting to learn from behind the scenes. Like, do you guys think I should? And they all vote like the majority, not all, maybe 70% voted do it. So I actually took the community in mind and I did the sponsorship for SK ii. In hindsight, I wish they had let me speak about it, how I experienced it. I think it would have been probably better for them. And it was a good learning for me as a brand now to really allow creators to speak about products. I love that in a way that is truly, and I hate to use this word because it's thrown around so much, but authentic to them and their experience. So that was a very. I'm grateful the community voted yes because it opened up my eyes now as a brand founder to allowing people to speak about things in a way that they want to speak about it. You know, as long as it's not wrong. Like, don't say, for example, like, I don't know, the hyper serum is just a hydrating serum. It's more than just a hydrating serum. So, like, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. If it's accurate, if it's factually.

Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.

We've touched on sort of the crowdedness of the beauty space. And I know for me, as, you know, a reporter and an editor, it can be overwhelming. And I've heard and seen firsthand that dermatologists experience the same thing with boxes of new beauty products and inboxes filled with brands that they want you to talk about. How did that sort of account into your decision to start your own brand.

Knowing how crowded it was?

Yeah.

It was scary. Yeah, definitely. Very scary. And my husband, who works in finance, was like, shereen, the barrier to entry is really low. This is not a good business. And I'm like, I know. But, you know, it started. So I was on social. Very honestly, I remember it very well. A couple of seeds had been planted throughout 2019, early 2020, when people were asking, when are you going to do your own thing? So obviously seeds had been planted by people, but I had Covid in the fall of 2020. I was locked up at the time for 14 days. I actually extended it by one or two days because I told my husband I still wasn't feeling well, but I really enjoyed the alone time from the babies because I had two babies at the time. So I was locked up in my room for, like two weeks, which was kind of heavenly in hindsight. There was a lot of time to think. And at the time, there was so much skincare drama happening every week. There was another dramatic story about this brand didn't have the right SPF that was labeled this brand didn't have. This brand that was contaminated. Literally. I don't know why, but there was drama. I don't know if you remember, but literally every week. And I got like. I guess I was just sitting there kind of bored at that point. Maybe it was day nine and I got frustrated and I was like, ugh. On stories, should we launch our own skincare brand? Because what the hell? Like, who are we to, like. Not that I was trying to fear monger people and saying, who are we to trust? But there were so many, like, stories all at once. And I was like, this is crazy. Like, should we just do our own? And I put a poll up, kind of like joking. And the next morning when I checked it, it was like, I don't know, over 10,000 votes. Yes. And it was like, 99%. It was crazy. In six hours, I was like, okay, let's call the lawyer while I'm up here and at least start, like, setting stuff up. So when I came out of the room, I told my husband, hey, we're starting a skincare line. He's like, what are you. Have you lost it? I'm like, nope, haven't lost it. But we're going to work with this person and that person, because I was sitting in the room, had time to kind of do research. And so that's sort of how the brand was born. Now that I put it out there, I'm like, I gotta do it, like, now. It was like a competition with myself, but very honestly, I had been approached, and this is where seeds were planted by Large, like, what are they called? Brand incubators. One in particular that was really after me. It was very enticing. You see your picture up, you see beautiful products, you see colors. They know I like colors. You're like, ooh, a kid in a candy store. And then I realized I was giving most of it away so that they could capitalize on me, my name, and what I've built. And so I told them no, like, three or four times. And when I told them the last time no, which was when I had Covid, they're like, you're gonna go spend $8 million to start your brand. If you want it to be successful, you're never gonna be able to make it happen. And I was like, listen, at least I would do it on my own terms. And honestly, you probably wouldn't wanna work with me, so it's probably better for all of us that I do this alone. And that's sort of how it all came about. But it was tough. I had to learn a lot. I had to hire a lot of people, make a lot of mistakes, cause a lot of frogs. Until I realized who are the right people to keep by my side throughout this whole process.

And you did end up building it on your own.

Yeah. So I started by going the classic route to a contract manufacturer. And I realized that I was a really tiny little goldfish among a sea of massive sea bass. Right. Or like, rockfish. And I had to get my ass out of there because they were not giving me the time of day, and they were trying to throw sunflower extract, telling me that it's the next best thing. So then I went to a smaller lab that I would own my formulas at. But same thing. Even though it was technically a smaller lab, it's all relative. I was still a smaller risk because I had no brand, no nothing yet to prove, and they were better, but it still wasn't great. And obviously, I'm not a cosmetic chemist. I speak medicine, they speak chemistry. And we were kind of talking past each other. So then I decided I'm going to hire a cosmetic chemist to be part of the team who can translate what I'm saying and who can help translate what they're saying so we can all make sure that we're getting what we're getting, because I don't want to be taken for a ride. So then I hired my own chemistry who internally would help. And then we had the lab that we hired. So now I had a lab, a chemist, and myself that were all working together to make this happen. And, yeah, that's sort of how the brand started. And I thought in the beginning that that would be the biggest hurdle was formulating the products. But I was quickly proven wrong.

How big is your team now?

I forget, because there's. There's two businesses. There's Idris, Derm and Pillow Talk Derm. In total, we're like 21. But in pillow Talk Derm, I believe it's like, around nine or eight at the moment.

Okay, wow. So you launched with, you know, three products super focused on, you know, discoloration concerns. Tell me about that decision.

So it was a decision that was born out of two things. One, my own personal frustrations. And I know when brand founders say this, everybody rolls their eyes, but it' true. And I'll get into that in a second. The second was I tried to take a step back and realize, listen, I see over 100 patients a week. What is a trend that I notice for my patients who come in and I'm mostly cosmetics. I'm like 99.9% cosmetics in my practice that I can offer patients, that's going to give them their biggest bang for their buck. And one thing that I always tell my patients, which is truly funny, they always come in complaining about a little line or looking a little wrinkle. And. And I take a step back and I hold the mirror from across the room. I'm like, what do you see? Do you see that line? And they're like, no. I'm like, exactly. What do you see? And they're like, I'm like, I'm going to tell you what you see. You see dullness. Your color is not even. It's not as radiant as you could be. There are sunspots, there are brown spots, there are broken blood vessels. And if you want to get the biggest bang for your buck, address your color first. Because I'm not God and I cannot create collagen overnight for you. But I can help you with your color, you know, and once you address the color first, it makes a world of a difference. And why is makeup so popular? Because people are covering it up, because they're trying to get an even skin tone, right? So I'm like, let's work on the foundation of your skin so you need less makeup so you have overall a better look and feel about yourself with less. And that's how I thought, let's start with color. Personally, I went through IVF for both of my kids. Going through the hormonal imbalance, it triggered my melasma. And with my son, I had him in August, in the summertime, in the heat, it was out of control. And I was on a no joke, 12 step skincare routine because I couldn't be on hydroquinone, I couldn't be on tretinoin. The gold standard prescriptions that really, truly help that I was trying to use everything over the counter available at my disposal to really address this issue. Now, over the counter is never going to treat melasma. I knew this, but I also realized in that process that you have to have a consistent daily skincare routine that is not dependent on prescriptions like hydroquinone, because in the long run, you cannot be on hydroquinone long term. You have to take breaks. And so that was the first light bulb that went off for me that I want to simplify this because there's no way in hell this is sustainable in the long term. Not only financially, but also time wise with two kids, a job, not going to happen. And then it made Me realize, wait a second. This is exactly what I've been preaching to my patients all of these years. And it's kind of funny that it took me this long to realize it. I'm a little slow that you can't go in for laser treatments and expect to have clear skin if you're not doing the work every single day. So why don't we create a system that is going to really be efficacious in delivering the best and the highest quality ingredients right at the right percentages, in tandem, in a simplified routine so they don't have to think and they can really make sure that that laser treatment has a longer shelf life. Because if you think the laser is going to do much, it's like going to the dentist for a teeth cleaning once a year and you don't brush your teeth. Useless. Don't do it. Not worth it. So same goes with lasers and skin. And so that was sort of the premise of how major fade came about. And. Yeah, and now we're growing and we're building upon that with a deep puffer that helps with the redness and the puffiness. And that was truly born out of my practice and my patients. So it's a continuous, evolving process. But, yeah, from personal experience, from patient care.

No, I mean, you just preempted one of my questions, which was. So the brand launched at. In fall 2022, correct?

Yes, correct. Correct. This office launched September 2021. The brand a year later.

Okay. And then the Roller product. Sorry, these beauty product names get me sometimes.

I'm sorry, I know.

Launched more recently.

We launched it in March, April of this year.

The short name is the De Puffer. The Arnica.

The. Just call it the Deep Puffer.

The Deep Puffer. The Deep Puffer Arnica Sculpting Serum Roller. I was wondering, like, the extent to which your patients sort of influence product development. And you said that product is a example of that.

100%. So I do a lot of injectables in my practice. Right. There's a lot of bruising. I cannot not bruise you. I usually tell patients, expect a bruise, walk out happy. If you have nothing, you're ecstatic. Right. So I was like, thinking to myself, how can I create something that helps them throughout this process of getting procedures and stuff? That was one aspect. The second aspect is I do Sculptra. Sculptra requires you to massage your face for a few days after you get the treatment, but it's quite painful after the numbing wears off. So using a roller is helpful, but I wanted to use a roller that's actually helping with swelling and inflammation as well, especially for that particular procedure. And when I looked on the market, A, I didn't find any that I liked. B, everything with Arnica was homeopathically formulated. Homeopathic formulations are usually based on the premise of diluting an ingredient. And when you see 10x, it doesn't mean 10 times as strong. It means like 10x more dilute. So when we reverse engineered the product, we're like, okay, there is not much Arnica in here. And I wanted it to be loaded in Arnica in a way that people can use it topically on their skin. Right. And it was not trying to create a pill or anything. I wanted it to be in the serum that helps with inflammation, which helps with the look of bruising, et cetera. And so that was my thought process with the Arnica sculpting roller, also known as the De Puffer. Now, I've also realized that it helps a lot with my eyes because it does truly depuff. And so I personally use it every day around my eyes in the morning especially because it helps reduce the swelling and it helps reduce the look of redness. And I'm extremely allergy prone with seasonal allergies. So it's part of my daily routine every morning now.

I mean, one thing that, you know, obviously my job, I write report on trends in the industry and it, you know, after years and years of tons and tons more than we can count celebrity brands, we're seeing really a return to X expert founded brands. And people again, like wanting the credibility that you're able to offer in your social media content. Do you feel like your brand has been able to essentially like benefit from that desire and that hunger that people have for credible information? And if so, you know, how have you guys been able to sort of market the brand and take advantage of your expertise. Expertise to position the brand, you know, in that way where people understand, you know, this is in a sea of, you know, celebrity brands. We are here is a brand that comes from someone who did, you know, spend 12 years in medical school.

It's a very, very good question and I agree with you. There is a trend where there is a hunger for that. When I talk to my team and we talk in house again, it's not something that we try to, quote, unquote, capitalize on. Because if I were trying to capitalize on it, I would have called it a medical grade skincare brand. But I think that is a bullshit Claim. And I'm not here to bullshit people at all. Like, I am here. And the mission of my brand is truly starting with education, you know, and as long as the hunger for knowledge is there, then we're gonna just kind of ride with that and see what happens. But I'm not trying to get ahead of the curve by pushing my medical degree forward or trying to like, you know, really make that sort of the main essence of the brand. Hence why I called it Pillow Talk Derm. I wanted it to be about the community. The community voted for the name. And so it was never about that initially, you know, which, for better or for worse, I wanted it to be about education. And as it was up to me, I wanted it to be about the community. But we are living in a time and age where education, knowledge, that thirst, that hunger for knowledge is truly present. And it works. It works because that's what I'm offering. But we're not trying to capitalize on that by like pushing, you know what I mean, a specific agenda forward by making people believe that we're medical skincare. Like, I'm never going to use those words if they know it's Dr. Idris, great. It is. It is me. I am pillow doctor. Do you know what I mean? But it's not something that we're trying to be like medical grade skincare or, you know what I mean? I think you're going to find great quality medical grade skincare. I think you're going to find shitty quality medical grade skincare. I think you're going to find great over the counter skincare. I think you're going to find shitty quality over the counter skincare. At the end of the day, it truly is dependent on the ethics and the ethos of the brand and the person behind the brand to lead that forward. And you as a consumer can only get educated on who the people are behind the brand and what their brand stands for and decide where you want to spend your money in that sense. But if you're looking for knowledge, if you're looking for knowledge beyond the product that we sell, that's what I want to try to offer the consumer as well.

Because the term medical grade doesn't mean very much. Correct?

It doesn't really mean anything. Yeah, I did a reel on this yesterday. I was actually on another podcast where we were talking about it. But medical grade is a term that is used in marketing. There's no FDA regulations around medical grade. A lot of people are going to get pissed off at me. Fine estheticians Doctors, nurses, practitioners, because they push medical grade through their practice. I have medical grade products in my own practice. Why the salesperson likes that? They happen to like that in the routine. Good for them. Do I tell them I think it is far better? No, but I have it because I'm giving them that option. I'm not going to gatekeep and I'm not going to push them, you know what I mean, away from a product that I think is quality products. But do I think that it's going to be the end all, be all to amazing skin? No, I don't. I think you can work within different budgets to get that.

Yeah. So really, you know, coming up towards the end of our chat, your brand is now a little over a year old. What can you tell us about your first year and also what we can expect to see next from the brand?

The first year was very interesting. I think starting a brand is like going through pregnancy, where you think the hurdle is delivering the baby and then the baby is born, the brand is on the market and you're like, oh, shit. Fourth trimester, postpartum depression. I have to keep this alive. And so that those were actual very parallel emotions in starting a brand. And I think it's very interesting to try to keep on top of just the products, for example, to keep those interesting, to keep the conversation fresh, to have that want, that need, that desire to constantly talk about it is also very interesting. And you have to ask yourself, why am I doing this? And again, this is why. If it was just money driven, I could never see myself wanting to do this on a daily basis. I would not do it. So again, you have to think of that before you start any brand. I think the other interesting thing in the first year that you make is how inefficient systems are. Yes, I could have gone down the brand incubator route and it could have been super easy for me. But how hard is it to get the cap to be blue and the same blue as the tube? And why is that still an issue in 2023 when we've landed on the moon? Because that little issue can then delay you restocking for six months. Because you have to get the little sample made, which then has to come and then you have to okay it. And if the sample is wrong, you get another month delay. And it's very interesting how inefficient this whole industry has run. But on a positive, it's been an amazing year. We've grown over half a million other nerds who've Joined the platform all organically today, actually, we just found out we won our eighth award as a brand, which is insane. In one year. Like, all of them, the mask, the serum, the moisturizer, the whole major fade system, and the deep puffer, each one individually has won awards. And we hit our eighth one today, which was very exciting. I woke up to that email. So when you see that. Thank you. When you see that positive side resonate with people and people are excited about it and they're like, messaging me like, I see such a difference and I couldn't afford to go see a dermatologist. Like, my heart melts because that's what drives me, that people are now able to help themselves and able to do better for themselves through my products and beyond. And so that is really, truly what has been the most amazing part of creating something that can reach other people's hands in a physical way beyond the walls of your practice.

Yeah. Anything you can share with us about plans for the future.

I mean, you know, there's a lot of exciting stuff coming up. There is going to be some changes coming up which are going to be exciting changes. Nothing bad. No formulas are changing. That's all staying the same. But there are going to be some exciting changes. And then obviously, I guess it's the dream for any brand, you know, to. To go beyond just, you know, online and dtc. So retailers were, if you're a retailer, listening, we're open to conversations and, you know, we're talking to different people, a million different people. It's just. It's a very exciting time. And for me, it's really about enjoying this ride and really pinching my. Because I started this in 2018. I told you rock bottom. Never in a million years I would have said you're smoking some kind of, like, illegal substance if you told me in 2023 you would be doing this. And so for me, literally every day I do wake up and try to meditate and try to. It's a. It's a pinch me moment that, like, this is the ride. This is the time that really is the most enjoyable time because I never thought I would ever be living this ride.

Oh, I love that. Thank you so much for coming on the Glossy Beauty podcast. This has been such a fun conversation and, yeah, you're. I think your candor is, you know, so special and the industry. So thank you for sharing it with us.

Well, I appreciate you guys and thank you for having me.

Thanks for tuning in to the Glossy Beauty Podcast. Our theme music is by Otis McDonald Please don't forget to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening.

Sam.