Debunking Hormone Myths with Dr. Deb Matthews and Sherri Griggs

Welcome to the Balanced Body Podcast, where Sherry Griggs, owner of Balanced Body Health and Wellness in Omaha, talks to us about health, wellness, and balancing hormones. Today we have Sherry Griggs with us with Balanced Body Health and Wellness in Omaha, Nebraska. Hormone expert extraordinaire is what I like to call her.

How are you doing, Sherry?

I'm doing great. How are you, John?

Wonderful. I am so excited to be talking to you today. And we also have a guest. We do.

Yes, we have Dr. Deb Mathieu here. She is an expert in hormones. She's a bestselling author, an international speaker, a wife and mom of 4. She is my mentor. And she— if you have a question about hormones, this is the lady. She knows it all.

Well, I'm so glad to be here. I'm excited to be talking to you today.

And I got a little insight into what we're talking about, but tell me if I'm wrong. We're talking about myths in hormones?

Yes. So, and actually, you know, October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month, and that is one of the myths is that estrogen, sometimes people say all hormones cause breast cancer. And there are several other myths out there as well, but I brought Dr. Deb here to tell us the real truth about hormones. And I'll just start right out with that question. Dr. Deb, does estrogen or hormones cause breast cancer?

You know, this is such a big question, and the truth is that estrogen does not cause breast cancer, but everybody— I'm doing air quotes here— knows, everybody knows in air quotes that estrogen causes breast cancer, and doctors still very much fall into the thinking pattern that estrogen causes breast cancer. So it's a really important thing that we wanna talk about so that women can be able to really understand the truth and make informed choices for themselves and not suffer with unnecessary symptoms and unnecessary diseases of aging that could have been prevented with the use of estrogen. Right.

So why do doctors still think that estrogen— why do they think estrogen causes breast cancer?

When I went to medical school in the '90s, we were taught that hormones are the greatest thing since sliced bread. We were taught that all menopausal women should go on estrogen because it was gonna protect our heart, our brain, and our bones. And in 2002, there was a big study that was being done to prove once and for all just how wonderful hormones were. And what came out of that study in 2002 is they found that there was an increase in the risk for breast cancer. So the study got shut down. on the news, doctors' offices across the country were ringing off the hook from these panicked women afraid that they were going to get breast cancer. And doctors were horrified because we don't want to do anything that's going to harm our patients. And in fact, on the very first day of medical school, the very first thing that we do is we take the Hippocratic Oath. And the Hippocratic Oath says, first, do no harm. So as doctors, we are trained to literally— we would rather not do something, even if harm came to you, than To do something that might harm you. So the idea that we were telling, like, every woman in America that she needs to go on estrogen when she went through menopause, and that was causing breast cancer, that was horrifying to us. And so overnight, hormones became bad and dangerous, and doctors told their patients that they should not be on them. So here's the problem, is that that was quite a bit premature. That's not exactly what the study showed, and an entire generation of women have been You know, scared away from hormones. But also, ever since then, that was more than 20 years ago now. So over the last 20 years, doctors really haven't been taught about menopause and about hormone replacement therapy because we're, you know, now the new thinking is like, stay away from hormones. So non-hormonal things. So we give you antidepressants or other things to try to manage your hot flashes instead of actually fixing the problem. So what we know now is over the last 20-some years, Those numbers have been reanalyzed. And what we see is that in the study, there were 2 groups of women. One group of women had, you know, their uterus, they had all their parts, and they were given a combo pill. It had estrogen and progesterone, because too much estrogen could cause uterine bleeding or even uterine cancer. But if we give you the progesterone, we prevent that. But the pill that was available at the time was not actually progesterone. It was a synthetic drug. A man-made chemical that mimicked progesterone, but it didn't do all the same things. And unfortunately, one of the things that it did is it caused a teeny tiny increase in the risk for breast cancer. So if you weren't on any hormones, your risk for breast cancer was about 4 in 10,000— sorry, 4 in 1,000. And if you— if we put you on this combo pill, now your risk was about 5 in 1,000.

Hmm.

So 1 extra in 1,000. It was really 7 in 10,000. So it was a little bit less than 1 in 1,000, teeny tiny increase in the risk. But that's not what women were told. Women were told that, right, if you go on hormones, you're going to get breast cancer, you're going to die. So teeny tiny risk in the combo pill. The other group of women had had a hysterectomy for whatever reason, and they were only given estrogen because we didn't have to worry about the uterine bleeding. Those women not only did not have an increase in the risk for breast cancer, but their risk for breast cancer was actually less.

Oh.

So what the study actually showed is that estrogen reduced the risk for breast cancer. It's not a humongous decrease, but nonetheless, it was a significant decrease. So the same authors that published the very first study 20-some years ago have since then republished to say, listen, estrogen doesn't cause breast cancer. In fact, estrogen is the only thing that we can write a prescription for that reduces women's deaths from breast cancer. But even though it's been published by the same people, we know this, it's not controversial. Doctors were trained that estrogen causes breast cancer, and it's very, very, very difficult to get the message changed. And so even today, doctors are scaring women away from the benefits of estrogen.

Oh my gosh.

Now, you had mentioned that they used a chemical substitution, like a manmade chemical. Are there alternatives like natural? Hormone replacements?

That's a great question. So progestins is the name for all these various different kinds of synthetic hormones. Um, birth control pills have synthetic progestins in them, but we can use actual progesterone, which is the exact same thing found in your body. Um, it's micronized progesterone. It is bioidentical, which means it's an exact match for what your body made. So at least in theory, your body shouldn't be able to tell whether it came from your ovaries or from the pharmacy. And that has not been shown to increase the risk for breast cancer.

In fact, it has a lot of benefits, correct? So what would you say? So what are some of the— now, of course, we've talked, we've talked here on the podcast about the different hormones and how they work. And we've talked about testosterone for women. And we know the FDA does not approve that for women. But my thing is, well, we've had it our whole life. Why do we all of a sudden no longer need it? When we get to a certain age. Is there some, some myth, or is there some reason that they don't feel we need testosterone after a certain age?

At this point, the reason that they are saying this is because we do not have the studies to demonstrate the, you know, the how— the things that got better in women when they took testosterone. And we don't have the studies because it's not FDA approved, so we're not giving it to women. In order to be able to do the studies. Now, there are studies, and the problem is that it takes so, so many years for medical thinking to change. And how many studies do we need before we say, okay, we finally believe these results? So there are many studies using testosterone in women for a variety of different things, for helping with bone density and osteoporosis, with even testosterone pellets. It reduced the chance of breast cancer, but also to help prevent urinary incontinence and broken hips and all sorts of things. So we know that there are tremendous benefits of testosterone for women, just like for men. In fact, we have 10 times more testosterone than we have estrogen. Um, but it's— medical thinking is very slow to change. And until there's enough— I'm using those air quotes—

Mm-hmm.

And enough research to convince, you know, the powers that be, then it's— it still gets poo-pooed. However, the practitioners who work with bioidentical hormones and who do give testosterone to their female patients who need it, we see every day the tremendous benefits to not just bones and urinary tract and, you know, things that we can measure with x-rays. But energy, motivation, mood, confidence, self-esteem, you know, get up and go, get things done. People call it the CEO hormone because it gives us that confidence. And, you know, when that goes down, we just feel kind of flat and kind of blah and, you know, kind of not— maybe not sad and hopeless in the corner, but just kind of depressed a little.

Yeah. Like you don't have much energy. You just don't have a lot of motivation.

Yeah.

Right. That's why we call it the CEO hormone.

Yeah.

And I see—

I've never heard that before, the CEO hormone. That sounds awesome. I feel like everybody would wanted if it was called that.

Yeah.

Right. So, and that's it. So, if, again, you've been listening about this and you've heard about podcast and I have the car analogy where you have your cortisol, cortisol's the engine of the car and thyroid is the transmission. And we're talking about some of the wheels here, the estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA, right? We have all of these hormones and they all work together. So, are there some other myths? For instance, I've had ladies come in and they say, you know, I want to extend my— one lady came in, she said, I want to live to be 205.

Okay.

And she said, I have been in menopause now for 10 years. I haven't had hormones for 10 years, but I've done my research and I need to— I feel like I need to start on hormones. Can we— I mean, it's been 10 years since she's had hormones. Can we add hormones back in for her? Yeah.

Well, what the original study, when we looked at the breast cancer study, what they found was that women who started on hormone therapy earlier, like right around the time of menopause, so within the first 5 to 10 years of menopause, of stopping their periods, there were tremendous benefits. There's less heart disease, there's less dementia, there's, you know, your skin doesn't age as quickly, like really, really important benefits of starting the hormones earlier. If we wait and we start the hormones 10 years or more after menopause, there's been so much that's happened in those first 10 years. It's a very inflammatory time in a woman's life. And so starting the hormones, we can't go backwards and erase all the aging process that's happened over those 10 years. Also, as women get older, we have a greater risk for things like blood clots, Just with age, more chances of things like strokes. And the kind of hormones that were given in that original study were pills.

Mm-hmm.

So estrogen pills and, and especially the synthetic forms of the hormones in a pill increase the risk for a blood clot. So we were taking older women and giving them this pill that increases the risk for blood clots. And in fact, we were seeing more of that. So a blood clot in your brain would be a stroke.

A blood clot in your heart would be a heart attack.

So, Women who were younger, and they started on those same pills, you know, when they were 50, 55, the risk for blood clots anyway is lower. So they saw that the risks are higher when you're older, the risks are younger— are less when you're younger. So the recommendation was made that 10 years should be the cutoff. But here's the thing. We don't have to give you those synthetic pills that increase your risk for blood clots. We can give you hormones through your skin, and because they go straight into your tissues, They don't increase the risk of those blood clotting hormones. When we give you the kinds of hormones that don't increase your risk for blood clots, you still get tremendous benefits from the hormones for skin, for energy, for sleep, for urinary tract health, all sorts of things. The one thing that I think is important to say, though, that there is a caveat. If you have heart disease already, if you have plaque in your arteries, and maybe we don't even know, But if you have plaque in your arteries and then we start you on estrogen, estrogen is very protective for women's heart. So what the estrogen starts doing is it starts changing the plaque in your arteries. We call it remodeling, making it better. So over time, it does have some benefits for being on the hormones. But in that beginning, when it's starting to make those changes, it can make the plaque softer. A lot of plaque is hard and calcified.

Mm-hmm.

But it makes the plaque softer as it's changing it, and that can make it a little bit more unstable, which means a little piece of the plaque could break off and that could cause a blood clot, which could cause a heart attack, for example. So if you already have heart disease, there is a small increase in the risk for heart disease in that first 1 year after starting menopause, at least those pills.

Mm-hmm.

We don't have enough data to say that there's no risk if you're taking it another way. Um, but once you get over the first year, if you didn't have a heart attack, then your chances of heart disease start to go down. And we even have studies of women who we know they have heart disease. We put them on hormones and they live longer. They do better. But the cardiologists are not ready for that yet. The cardiologists just know, not only do hormones cause breast cancer, because that's what they were taught, but also they cause blood clots, which is what we don't want. And so if you have heart disease, I think it would be very difficult to find, um, a cardiologist who would be on board with you doing hormones.

Oh my gosh.

Now, when you, when you do the hormones, are you having the body produce the hormones or are you actually giving the body hormones? Does that make sense? Is there a way to like reprogram your body to start producing more home hormones? Or is it like once you hit a certain age, those hormones are just gone and so we have to supplement? Because your body's just kind of run out of that capability.

That's a good way to put it. It really is. Once you get a certain age, your body stops making those hormones. So when you talk about that, I'll tell you, perimenopause, when women— the ovaries, as I tell them, the ovaries are sputtering at that point. Sometimes they make estrogen and hormones and sometimes they don't. So it can be a very difficult time, but you get to a point where your body just doesn't make any anymore.

Right.

The ovaries. Now, the adrenals can still make some testosterone. In fact, I do know of another physician that has told us, you know, she's 70 and she's— her testosterone level is still great. And that's one of the things why it's so important to look at every woman, every patient as unique, right? To look at that person because everybody's different. But to answer that question, we cannot make— we cannot help the body to start making them again or to continue making them.

Right. Okay.

Yeah. Once it's done, it's done, right? And, you know, people will say, well, but we're old. Isn't that the way nature's supposed to be? If we don't have hormones anymore, that's how it's supposed to be. But, you know, I tell them, I think we were supposed to die about the age of 45 anyway, right? Many, many, many years ago. And modern medicine has made it so that we can live longer. And so we do live longer and we still need these hormones. And such as, as you age and you get older and your blood pressure goes up, that's part of aging. We treat that.

Yeah.

So, I asked some of my— when I was going through school, some of my preceptors, but why don't we treat women for menopause? Why don't we replace their hormones? And I do like to say this because in all fairness, like Deb has said, doctors didn't learn in medical school. And unfortunately, even though we know from the last 20 years that that study, there's new results. They're still not learning that. And one of the things one of my preceptors said, I don't have time to learn another specialty. And hormones are a specialty. Yeah.

I have a gynecologist in, you know, down the street from me who refers patients because what she says is, I don't wanna deal with those hormonal women. She's a surgeon, right? Gynecologists are surgeons. They'll do your hysterectomy, but—

Right.

This isn't really what they do. Right, exactly. They deliver babies, they do surgery, but they don't study.

Not all of them anyway.

Right. Yes. Some of them have. That's my— Mike has, but, but some of them have. But to assume that they have taken on that additional specialty to their current specialty isn't necessarily fair.

Well, and I was going to say earlier, Deb, when you were talking about it, it kind of made sense to me where doctors take the Hippocratic oath. They say, you know, first do no harm. So I wonder if, and maybe this is what you had said and it just now clicked, but maybe doing nothing is better than doing something that they think might be harmful. And so, because they don't have any room for any additional, like, specialties, like Sherri's talking about, it's easier on them to just say, don't do that because you could get hurt.

Exactly.

Is that what you were talking about? And it just clicked in my own head.

Yes.

No, that's exactly right. It feels safer to them to just poo-poo it away. This is normal. This is, you know, just get used to it. Because then they don't have to feel like they're doing something risky by promoting hormones. And I, my message, especially to other practitioners, is by withholding information from women about the benefits of hormones so that they can make their own choice, right? I'm not saying every woman has to be on hormones, but she needs the information to be able to make her own choice. By withholding that, by not really having these conversations, I believe that is doing harm. And so with, you know, not having the conversation is more dangerous than, you know, learning about the hormones, or at least supporting women, right? If they don't know how to do it, that's okay. They can just say, listen, I'm sorry, I didn't really learn how to do that. You know, you can go find someone else. That I can be okay with that.

The part that I don't like is the poo-pooing it away or saying, nope, it's just part of aging. You'll get through it. You don't need it.

And it, and it seems very similar to like nutrition, right? Like nutritionists are sort of a specialist where it's all about food and eating and eating properly and what to look for, what not to look for. And doctors are just dealing with people who have eaten wrong their entire lives and now they've got some sort of internal problem. They're trying to fix it. And, you know, half the time the doctor doesn't even say, go see a nutritionist. They're just like, I don't know, eat better. Yeah.

Well, and then, and then we talk about— so now we're talking about adding women on hormones. Is there a certain length of time? Because that's a question that comes up a lot as well. How long can I be on these hormones?

Yeah. What doctors have been taught is because there's that window of 10 years That once you hit a certain age, you should stop. So a lot of doctors will say 65, some doctors even will say 60. And partly it's because in their mind, they're thinking that you're on something that's gonna increase your risk for breast cancer. So they only want to do it in the worst case scenarios. They wanna do the lowest dose, the shortest amount of time, and get you off that as soon as possible. Or they know that the earlier you do it, you know, you're getting benefits. But then once you get older, the risks for blood clots and things, and so they would recommend that you stop. But the North American Menopause Society, which is now just called the Menopause Society, they put out a statement. I wanna say it was 2019, it might've even been 2018, that basically said there is no medical research that says that you have to stop the hormones at any age. There's literally nothing to say that that needs to be done.

Wow.

So for each woman, we wanna look at their risks and benefits. If they are getting benefits from the hormones, If we are helping them with osteopenia or osteoporosis, if it's helping with vaginal dryness, painful sex, preventing urinary tract infections, you know, if, if they're getting some benefits from it, there is no need for them to stop just because they've hit a certain birthday. And a milestone study came out this year. They looked at 10 million women on Medicare. So 10 million women is like an enormous size of a study. And because women are on Medicare, it means they're all 65 and older. And they looked at the women on hormones, and they found that the women who were on hormones over 65 had less heart disease, they had less dementia, they had less broken hips, they lived longer. So it really showed the benefits of the hormones and again kind of debunked this idea. But I have women come into my office all the time who say, you know, my doctor took me off the hormones because they said I was too old and now I'm miserable and I can't remember things and I can't think straight and I can't sleep. And, you know, I'm exhausted all the time and my skin is aging right in front of my eyes and I'm like wearing Depends and, you know, like it just, it's so unnecessary.

One of the things that I was curious about, and maybe this doesn't fit into this discussion, but it seems like a myth from my side having all this new knowledge of hormones. Because of Sherri, because she's so awesome. And you vicariously, because she talks about you all the time, Deb. Hormone replacement therapy isn't just for menopause either. Like, that— is that a myth?

Well, I mean, it definitely helps the symptoms. Now, if we start to talk about it, hormone replacement, we get into some people that have symptoms. For instance, I have a gal that comes in and she has terrible, terrible heavy periods. So because we start to lose So because we start to lose certain hormones earlier, right? We start to lose progesterone at an earlier age. We start to lose testosterone at an earlier age. Estrogen is the one that leaves us last most of the time. Sometimes everyone, again, is different. By replacing and giving her some extra progesterone, it is actually helping her with her heavy periods.

Yeah.

So it can be used for that. It can also be used for something called PCOS. And quite honestly, that is outside Outside of my realm. I work mainly with women in perimenopause and menopause. So as their hormones are changing, as opposed to women with difficulty conceiving, but that is another type of medicine where hormones can be used, but I could not answer a question about that if you asked me one.

Yeah. But I think it's a really important question because we use hormones. I got my air quotes out again.

Yeah.

We use hormones a lot. In the form of birth control pills.

Uh-huh.

And we use birth control pills to help for contraception, but we use birth control pills to help any kind of hormonal symptoms, irregular periods or PMS or, you know, all these things. And birth control pills aren't actually real hormones. They're chemicals that mimic our hormones, but what they do is they turn off our hormones and replace them with these chemical ones. So they don't give all the same benefits. They don't have the same risks. And there's lots of reasons why we believe, Sherri and I, that using the natural form of the hormones just makes sense. But so we can talk about using hormones, you know, really in women at any age. But I would say that the time that it really becomes an issue is over the age of 35, because that's when our progesterone levels can start to drop.

Mm-hmm.

And the problem that we have with this is who at the age of, say, 36 is thinking about menopause? Like, this was me. I was waking up in the middle of the night with panic attacks for no reason, and I was so irritable. I was shrieking at my kids all the time, like I'd have flames coming out of my ears as I'm yelling at them. And I had no idea that it had anything to do with my hormones because I was still in my 30s.

Mm-hmm.

But my progesterone was changing, and progesterone is the calming hormone, so I was no longer calm. And so I think it's important for women to know you don't have to wait till you hit menopause. And one more thought is I've had a patient recently come in And she sat down and she said, you know, I thought menopause would be you have some hot flashes for a month or two and then it's over.

If only.

Like, some women don't even have hot flashes.

Right.

Sometimes the hot flashes can last for many, many years, but perimenopause symptoms can start 10 years before menopause. Menopause can happen kind of anytime between about 45 or 55. That means anywhere from sort of 35 to 65, you can be And then when you do go through menopause and your hormones drop, things don't get better. Like, they just keep going downhill. The hot flashes might get better, right? But the rest of it kind of goes downhill. And I'm gonna be honest, if hot flashes are the only thing that we would have to worry about in menopause, you know, we'd make it through. Nobody likes them. They're annoying. It's the rest of it.

Yeah.

It's our brain doesn't work. We can't remember the word that we want to say. We can't, like, string a sentence together. We gotta write everything down, then we gotta have sticky notes to remember where we put the list. Like, we can't sleep. It's the brain stuff, I think, and the belly fat.

Oh my gosh.

Estrogen gives us a waist, and so when we lose estrogen, we just become thick and we get the belly fat. We hate that. And it doesn't have to be.

It doesn't have to be like that. No, it doesn't have to be like that at all. And, you know, that, that made me think when you talked to Deb about, you know, that whole whole generation of women. My mom is one of those women that had a hysterectomy and they didn't believe in hormones at that time. And she has osteoporosis, she has elevated cholesterol, she has some of those things that— and actually she did, she had a heart issue. And I believe because none of those are familiar, none of that is in our family, that this is because she did not replace her hormones. And She went through menopause because of that hysterectomy at an earlier age. Yeah.

Fear of hormones has harmed women in such a tremendous way. In fact, there are some practitioners who believe that scaring women away from hormones is like the worst thing that modern medicine has done that has harmed the most lives by scaring women. And I really like an analogy that I heard one of my colleagues make, which is as we get older, our vision changes, right? You can't see things up close. You have to hold the paper far away and your arm is not long enough. But when you go to the doctor, the doctor doesn't tell you, yes, this is a normal part of aging. You're just not going to be able to see anymore and you'll just have to adapt and you won't be able to be a useful member of society. That's not what we say. What we say is, here are your reading glasses so that you can carry on and, you know, live your life. And so that's how I think of hormones too. They just allow us to be who we are. The number one thing that women say when they come in to see me is, I just don't feel like myself. Like, this is not me.

Yeah, because your body chemistry is changing, right? You're losing some important hormones that you've had your whole life.

Yeah, and these hormones help us to stay healthy and prevent frailty. So if we don't have hormones in our system, we become those frail little old ladies that don't even have the strength to stand up out of a And then when we trip and fall down, we snap like a twig.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, then our quality of life is gone. Um, even it's incontinence, right? Losing urine is one of the most common reasons why women end up in nursing homes. Like, the broken hips is another one, but because it becomes such a big laundry problem and it's just too much to deal with at home. So I don't know, that's not what I want for myself. I don't wanna be a burden on my family. I got things to do. I don't know. I wanna go, travel, or, you know, I want to get down on the floor and play with my grandchildren. I don't want to be in a nursing home and be a frail little old lady that can't remember things.

Exactly. And we can prevent that, so we should, right? That's something that we can do and prevent that. And when you mentioned that, being able to stand up, one of the neatest things, uh, one of my other mentors, Dr. Rosensweet, has a video of his own mother. And once he started her on hormone replacement, specifically testosterone, she could not stand up from a chair without using the arms of the chair to push her up and help. And after he started her on hormones, she was able to stand up without using the arms and without getting help. Yeah.

Wow.

So that was such an eye-opener of how important that is. And when you talk about the incontinence and the musculature, the pelvic floor muscles, our muscles in general, it does so much for us. And lastly, Deb, is there anything that you feel As we're talking about these myths and we've been through these things, is there anything you feel that's really important that maybe I've missed asking you, or that you— is a message that should go out?

Yeah. So here's the message that I want women to hear is that you do not need to be afraid of hormones. There are risks and benefits and everything, but for the majority of women, the benefits of hormones vastly outweigh the risks as long as we are doing it in the smart way, using the most up-to-date research. If your practitioner is not supportive of hormones, if they're poo-pooing it away, if you're telling you're not a candidate for hormones for some reason or whatever, your story does not have to end there. It just means that that's not going to be the right person to help you and you need to find somebody else. At the same time, you can't really expect a doctor to fix you. We all need to take control of our own health, and there's so many things that we can each be doing to help Keep ourselves healthy. We always wanna put the hormones in a healthy body. So, you know, nutrition and lifestyle, all of those things are really, really important. 'Cause at the end of the day, living well is the best medicine.

It is prevention, right?

Yeah.

Living well. And so that's one of the things, if you're listening to us and you have a question, you can go to my website, balancedbodymedical.com, sign up for a free discovery call. I'd love to speak with you and answer your questions. I always tell people there aren't any dumb questions. They're all worthwhile.

I did have one question, one more question really quickly. It's— I actually ended up having a meningioma, which is a type of cancer-ish kind of thing. And they told me when they removed it that the reason it grew was because I was having babies. And so to not have any more babies afterwards because those growth hormones that are in there are what was causing it to grow. So my question is, is if somebody's already had a tumor or some type of cancer, will getting hormones make it grow?

That's a great question. It completely depends on the type of cancer. So there are certain cancers that get stimulated by estrogen, so that's why some doctors, you know, still believe that it's not that estrogen causes them, anybody to get a cancer.

Right.

But it can make cancers grow. So there are other cancers where the estrogen is completely unrelated and it would have nothing to do with it. So this would have to be something that you would need to talk to your, you know, your medical team in order to be able to know for sure. And then we also have to make sure that we don't lump hormones all in the same category.

Right.

'Cause there's all different hormones. So even if you're not a candidate for estrogen, it doesn't mean that you're not a candidate the rest of your hormones balanced or some of the other hormones balanced.

It's perfect.

Thanks.

So, Deb, I just want to thank you so much for being here today. You're just a wealth of information, and I really appreciate you so much, and it's been a pleasure. Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

This has been the Balanced Body Medical Podcast with Sherri Griggs, owner of Balanced Body Health and Wellness. If you're looking to find Sherri, go ahead and look for the website balancedbodymedical.com. If you're looking for the business and you want to find Sherri at her office, you can find her at 10815 Elm Street in Rockbrook Plaza.

Thank you.