Special Guest Star Dan Sneider

Welcome to the Balanced Body Podcast with Sherri Griggs, hormone expert extraordinaire is what we say when we're talking to Sherri. And we have a special guest, Dr. Dan Snyder, who I hear is also a hormone expert extraordinaire. Are you guys both the MacGyver of hormones?

I Well, I'll tell you what, John. Dan is more or less a MacGyver of fixing the emotional turmoil that hormones can cause in your relationship. So we know that, right? So, so let's say you now have your hormones straightened out, right? We know that low testosterone in men and women both results in a lower libido, a lower desire, which people can take that personally, right? Why don't you want me anymore? Are you not attracted to me? Women get vaginal dryness with low estrogen. They have trouble sleeping with low progesterone and anxiety. Now, put that together, and that can cause some serious damage to a relationship. And it's emotional damage. It's, it's, you know, I can fix the hormones, right? I can, I can get them back into levels where all of these symptoms are gone.

Right.

But there's still going to be the damage that was done. It doesn't just disappear when I fix them physiologically. Now they need some emotional and psychological assistance with their relationship. That's where Dan comes in.

Oh, I see. Okay, so then not just the— not just the problems that we are ourselves facing with these hormonal changes. But then the stressors that are involved, as well as just the perception from one side to another and how that can break apart a relationship. Is that kind of more a better way for me to understand it?

It can be. I mean, what it is, is what we're looking at is the relationship has been damaged because of what has been going on. For instance, let's say in a relationship and the Husband is, well, you never wanna have sex with me anymore. You don't find me attractive. You, you know, you don't love me. I, you don't, you don't need me, right? I, I need to be needed, and you want nothing to do with me. And now it's a you, you, you, you're doing this to me, and I'm feeling hurt. Or a wife is like, my husband isn't attracted to me anymore. Now I'm not attractive, and I'm hurt.

Yes.

And something is said for through frustration, right? And now there's damage. How do you get over that hurt? And that damage that's happened to the relationship because of these hormonal imbalances. So now we balance the hormones, and everybody's feeling good again. But the damage to the relationship, the trust, and the vulnerability and the ability to be vulnerable are gone. I mean, they're damaged. And this is where Dan comes in to, to fix that relationship. Well, you know what? Let's have Dan tell us about it. Dan. You tell us about it.

Yeah, I'd be happy to. So first of all, thank you for having me on your wonderful podcast here. I'm looking forward to connecting with your audience and sharing. And like Sherri said, so, um, my area of expertise is helping couples with maintaining trust and intimacy in their relationship. I'm a licensed clinical social worker And I specialize in helping couples and individuals in a therapy setting to work through challenges that they're facing. And so something that I'm excited to share is a new program that I've developed. It's called The Intimacy Shift, and it's a blueprint for moving from conflict to lasting connection. And so many of the people that you're working with, because of imbalances in their hormones, have had conflicts come up in their relationships. All the things that you just mentioned, which can be remembered for a long time, right? So even when the hormones do get balanced and some of the physical changes have been righted, we can't unhear or disremember the things that happen for the years leading up to that. And so it does take some work for the couple to recalibrate with their, their new hormonal alignment with that new system to be able to trust The things that their bodies are saying, because we can express physical desire, but we may still have those same questions that you just said. Do they think I'm attractive, or are they just flooded with hormones now? Now I have a new set of questions. And so those are the kinds of things that couples that I work with are, are dealing with and wanting to change so that, okay, we've got our hormones back where we want them. Now we want to really trust and feel safe again to use these physical bodies that are working more the way we want them to.

That's so interesting because I, I didn't even think that it could swing the other way. Like, I always think of, um, this is probably what you get all the time, but I always think of it like these are just the issues that are coming up. Now I fixed them. It's almost like that old, that old adage, like, how are we going to land on Man on the moon, we just have these problems. And once we solve these problems, we're there, we're on the moon. But once you get to the moon, maybe you didn't want to be there still. Like, so you're helping people try to understand and feel those feelings and reconnect.

Well, I love a good metaphor. So if we're on the moon, how do we get back home?

Right?

So we solve the problem of getting there, right? We're on the moon. But now, now we want to land the, land the shuttle, right? We want to get those astronauts safely Yeah. So, um, the— and I'll, I'll add to it some, uh, you probably hear stories like this too, Sherri, that during the course of our hormones, or one of our hormones was out of alignment, maybe an affair happened during that time, maybe someone got sick and there's a different physical problem that was a challenge, or maybe there was a parenting stressor And, and there could have been other things that took place separate from, you know, the hormone imbalance that have added complexity or emotional damage to the situation. A lot of the couples that I work with, something that I hear over and over again is how porn and masturbation plays a role in all of this. Because when there's a, a disconnection within the couple, we're not going to the other person to meet our needs. And we're getting them met elsewhere. It may not be a physical affair with another person, but there could be an emotional affair, or there could be, you know, pornography that's taking time, attention, and energy from the relationship. And so that's the, you know, again, we'll use that metaphor. That's those, you know, getting our astronauts safely home so that they can, you know, return to that relationship, that home, that safe base.

Interesting. Okay.

Right? Because people look at things differently, right? So when you talk about an emotional— having maybe an emotional affair or pornography being involved in that time, it's all in how the other person can look at it, right? That the person may look at it, well, because you are busy looking at porn, you're not attracted to me, right? I mean, it just depends on— and that's what you do. You help them understand and communicate to where this— some of this is coming from.

Absolutely. Yeah. And so for many of us who didn't, you know, learn how to be in healthy relationship in school, right? That wasn't a class that I took.

Right.

You know, sometimes when we have met and fallen in love and we're working and we're raising families, some of this is on autopilot or taken for granted. But when a big stressor comes up, like a hormonal change or imbalance later in the relationship, it exposes some flaws in the way that we communicate, in the way that we connect. The old ways that we used to be able to connect maybe are not there anymore. And certainly having sleepless nights or physical changes is going to— you know, drastically change the way we feel about ourselves and how we relate to the other person. So in the Intimacy Shift program that I mentioned earlier that I developed, one of the main tools that I help couples with is those building blocks of how to talk to each other in healthy and safe ways. So your example from earlier, you know, you don't find me attractive, or You're not the same person that I married, that kind of you language, we want to learn how to replace with I language. That's a really fundamental skill that I am helping couples with every single day. You know, how can we switch that sentence to something more like, you know, I'm feeling insecure, I'm feeling sad, I really miss spending time together where we can Relax. Those kinds of I statements are an invitation rather than an accusation and makes a world of difference for these couples that are trying to regain trust and intimacy after having challenges that hopefully we get sorted out and fixed, you know, through your wonderful work with them.

Do you find that, um, that, that I would guess the reason you put the blueprint together about communication, how to communicate again with each other, is because you find that is the biggest issue.

Yeah, so it's, uh, it's something that is more easily addressed. So what I try to, to think about with the couples I work with is how can we move from talking about the problem and the, the hurt to getting a, a new set of behaviors, a new set of skills to, to get things moving in the right direction. So yeah, those sort of foundational skills can stop the bleeding because instead of making those kinds of you statements, getting into another argument, now we can have a healthy conversation that we both feel good about, and then we start building trust, right? Or I talk about like the trust piggy bank. We can't just Rebuild our trust in one day. We've got to make deposits into that trust piggy bank little by little. Because if it's been— yeah, and you can tell, tell me, actually, this is your area of expertise— how many years on average do people wait before they come into your office, before they get some of these physical issues sorted out? It could be years where there's been damage done. And it does take time and these fundamental building blocks to get back to a trusting, better place.

Dan, you're right. Excuse me. People can take years. You know, life gets in the way. They're raising children. They're doing other things. They're not taking care of themselves. And so, you know, it tends to happen earlier with women. They have perimenopause. They can be in perimenopause, meaning hormones fluctuating for up to 7 years, right? And as it's fluctuating and these changes are taking place, Then this damage can be, can be done, because not only do they have these hormone fluctuations that increase anxiety, decrease the amount of sleep they get, now they still have life, they have work, they have children, and now they've got a relationship that is maybe suffering or losing money out of that trust piggy bank, and that all gets put on the back burner while they just try to survive. Sometimes they'll start early and we can get to working on these things early. But what's surprising is that most women will wait until menopause, meaning they may have been suffering for 7 or more years. And then I'll get women that have been in menopause for 5, 7 years. So now you can be talking about a 12, 14-year hormone imbalance. And if they're relationship is still intact, depending on their level or their ability to communicate, it may not be in very good shape.

Well, and, um, from my perspective too, I'm probably still on the younger side being 40, but like, you know, it took a little while for things to shift into I need to see Sherri and get my hormones sort of starting to level out and That itself is its own process, but then it skyrockets back in, and then you can immediately feel when things start feeling off. And Sherri's told me many times that that's exactly how it starts, because it's taken so long to get to the point where your hormones are down, it almost feels like it's a normal, like you're getting used to a new normal. But then when you got your hormones back up into sort of normal-ish levels for what you're at, They start dropping off faster and you're just like, feel it.

You feel it, you know it. Because for men, testosterone starts to decrease about 4% a year. That's not very much, right? So it sneaks up on you, sneaks up on you that this is dropping. And before you know it, you're suffering things like the weight gain and the loss of drive. The big thing is the loss of drive and fatigue for men, and then can come follow that the libido. And so it's just been sneaking up, right? And you're just thinking, well, I'm just getting older. These things are just happening. I'm just getting older. Some of the things I've seen, Dan, and, and I would love for you to tell us a story, maybe of somebody who was really broken and, you know, how well it was fixed. But I've seen things where one person gets their hormones straightened out and they start behaving in a different manner. Their actions are different. Their actions are more loving. There's more touch. There's more positive reinforcement. And the other person doesn't even recognize the change. They're still behaving as though they're living in that world from before.

Mhmm.

Like, it's like it's, it's almost a hurt they can't get over. Or I think the comment I heard was a, self-sabotage situation.

Mhmm.

But now you're dealing with somebody else with a different type of personality that is stuck, maybe focusing, and I don't wanna say feeling sorry for themselves because that's not it, but, but feeling unwanted, unneeded, undesired, and they can't see that those behaviors have changed. They're still focused on that past. How do you get somebody past that?

Yeah, it's a great question and something that I see in different forms, not just about hormonal imbalances, but that survival instinct. That's, that's what I hear from that is, you know, all of our, all of our goals as animals is to survive, right? Figuring out ways to get through situations. And so when we are feeling hurt, And we're not sure how to get through the situation over years of feeling hurt, we can put walls up to protect ourselves. And so those walls, like you said, maybe 4% a year, over time, those walls get built up higher and higher, and we come to expect a certain kind of action.

Mm-hmm.

And so when it changes drastically or changes overnight, seemingly, Um, that's a big shift. And our survival instincts are going to tell us that we can't trust that, or it's not worth coming out from behind that wall. Because if I do come out from behind that wall, and I'm really vulnerable, trusting, and hopeful, what if I get hurt again? What if the rug is pulled out from me after so long of staying safe? I finally emerge, and then poof, you know, it all disappears. So there's a lot of fears that can enter there and reasons why people will, will stay behind that wall and have come to live with a situation that is not perfect, but it's something that they've come to terms with. This is how it is, you know, this person has changed in these ways, and I don't know that I'm able to come back to be the person that I was. Maybe I've changed during that time. You can hear in all of this the doubts, the uncertainties creeping in. And so it's, uh, it's not a, you know, hopeless situation by any means. I know I'm painting a picture, but, you know, I want to very much validate and, and normalize the experience that these partners have who, you know, they love the other person and they are trying to protect themselves as these hurts or these changes have happened over time. So a few things that are helpful. So number one, we want to educate people on what's happening. So we want for the perimenopause, the menopause, testosterone changes, we want all of that to be able to be explained so that people understand, okay, this is what's actually happening in the body. These are the symptoms that are coming, and we want to be able to talk about that in a way that's out in the open. You mentioned, uh, John, I really appreciated your vulnerability and sharing some of your work and That's something that, you know, as a man myself, right, can be harder for men to acknowledge when we are having changes happen. You know, our partners often know before we do when something has shifted, and men are quick to cover it up or deny it or to shut down. Not always, not across the board. Maybe you were different. But a lot of the couples that I work with, it's often the woman in the couple who is seeking out help. seeking out therapy, and men are less able and maybe less willing to share what's going on for them. And so, yeah, putting it out in the open, normalizing what's happening, and then educating both people. On the other side, for, for changes happening to women, you know, we also want to normalize they are not being moody on purpose, right? They are not struggling with sleep just to drive their partner crazy, right? We want to Educate, like, physically what is happening so that we can talk about it in healthy ways and maybe even bring some laughter into it. That's such a healing thing for couples to be able to make jokes, not at the other's expense, but at the situation that we're in, because, oh, we're in it together. How can we approach this as a team? And that's going to feel a whole lot different. So those are a few of the ways that I think about these situations. And yeah, I feel like maybe I've gone, gone off a little bit from the original question, but there's so many things that I'm excited to share about how I approach couples work.

Well, Dan, I don't think you've gone off the question or what I brought up at all, because, because it all totally feeds into that. And when you were saying that, it made me think, you know, I have had More than one woman come in and say, my husband said, just fix me. He wants his wife back. Right? One wife to say, I think my husband loves you now, you know, because he got me back. So those couples we know are discussing it, right? Those couples we know are open about what's going on. But, but Dan, there are other couples that aren't, right? There are the couples that don't understand and do take it personally. So tell us a little bit about your work and how, you know, you, you did allude to it a little bit and about your blueprint and about the communication. But, but maybe like if there's a story or, you know, your work and something you've done and help somebody, that would— I would love to hear it.

Yeah, absolutely. So, particularly for couples that are struggling with physical intimacy and sex. Something that I will, will often bring. And I'm thinking of one couple in particular that, um, going from zero sex, zero physical intimacy, which, which had happened over a period of time, then to, oh, we're, we're feeling that desire re-emerge physically, we're more able to be sexual.

Mm-hmm.

But going from zero to full-on intercourse and Being able to initiate sex, getting over, you know, from one end of the spectrum all the way to the other was very challenging. And that's something I've worked with, with many couples. But for this couple in particular, what was really helpful was a number of what's called sensate focus sessions.

Mm-hmm.

And so the idea there is we're taking full intercourse off the menu for a short amount of time so that some of that pressure is off. So even though physically we know we are able to do that now, there's a lot of pressure and expectations that comes along with how it will feel and how it will go, both emotionally and physically. And so with a sensate focus session, the idea is we're building touch slowly. And we're focused on the sensations, just like it sounds. So we'll start with things that are baseline, always comfortable for that particular couple. So maybe it's holding hands, maybe it's a foot rub or a shoulder massage, but we start with something that's non-sexual. But the idea is we're building touch back into the relationship. Often for couples, it's either we're having sex or we're not really touching at all. Couples that have been together for a long time will sometimes lose Oh, we're just kissing and making out, or we're cuddling on the couch. Those things may have fallen off by the wayside. And so we want to build back in the idea that touch feels really good, and there's not pressure attached to it. It can just be fun. And so we start with, again, that really safe, gentle touch, and then slowly build up. For different couples, this could be Really just over, you know, a week or 2. For other couples, it may be longer, maybe a few months. For this particular couple that I'm thinking of, what they did was they started with the schedule because that was helpful for them, that it was on the calendar, something to look forward to and plan. You know, that these 2 nights a week, we're really going to focus on building back touch and intimacy into our relationship. And it started with exchanging, you know, foot and shoulder rubs and massages slowly built up into kissing, deep kissing. And then we started to have more clothes come off for them. And the idea was, when was the last time that we have been naked together in bed? And for this couple, it had been a long time since that was a safe and fun, you know, thing that they had done together.

Mm-hmm.

And so over the course of— for this couple, it was about months of doing these different sessions. Then we were able to put intercourse back on the menu for them, and there was so much less pressure. There was excitement, but not so much pressure because they knew that we are enjoying touch again. And the, the intercourse part, which can be so amazing, so fun, so important in a relationship, it was not that or nothing. They knew that they had this whole body of touch and closeness that they were having success with that was safe. They could feel their bodies responding and really trust it. So for them, that made a huge difference. And then their sexual relationship was able to take off in a healthy way from there.

That makes a lot of sense. You're right. The pressure, right? I've had patients and, you know, male patients with some of the pressure situation, recognizing that it was all in a psyche thing. More than it was a physical thing, right? Because the mind is, is involved. The mind is so important in, in feeling close to people and the desire. And you brought something else up when you said it took a couple months. It didn't break overnight, right? So it doesn't get fixed overnight. And I tell people that all the time. We're not going to fix you overnight. You didn't, you didn't get this way overnight. It may take some time.

Yeah, absolutely. And, and just knowing that ahead of time can, can reset the expectations. And that's good for everybody to have just expectations a little bit closer, more firmly planted on the ground.

Right, more realistic. And, and you giving them more, not really a schedule, but kind of a schedule, right? Because as I mentioned, people are busy and they're working and they have families and, and all these things are going on. And a lot of people will put themselves and what's healthy for them on the back burner while they're busy trying to do all these other things. And the relationship— and humans, humans need touch. We know that babies will suffer failure to thrive without human touch. So we know that that is something we need as humans. It's not just something that we want, but it's something that we need to survive.

Yeah, absolutely.

I'm curious how many— no, you're quite all right. Um, Dr. Dan, I'm wondering, of the people that you're working with, how many are like recent empty nesters versus have kids in the home? Because I feel like there's probably all sorts of different— we always talk like you, you both bringing up stressors in our lives. Um, we always talk about external stress coming in and kind of ruining the equation for hormones in general, but I feel like kids are like one of the biggest ones because they just upend your life completely. Um, and something that I thought was interesting a couple years ago with my wife and I was we had not been on a date in a long time. I mean, it had been like 3 years. And we didn't have anything planned Really for the night or for after, but like it was, it was one of those things where it was a little stressful going out and then having no kids with us while we were at a restaurant. And we had to kind of relearn, even though it had only been 3 years, how to like connect that evening. Um, and it was really interesting. So I'm wondering, back to my question, like, are kids the main reason that you see that things kind of get disheveled, or is there other stressors that people are dealing with that are kind of like somebody who's listening might say to themselves, I am dealing with that change right now and I'm not paying attention to this over here.

Yeah, yeah. No, such a, such a good question. And, uh, one of the main reasons why I named my program The Intimacy Shift is because there are many different kinds of shifts that can happen to intimacy. A big one is when children enter the picture, for sure. That was an experience that I had having children, and many of the people that I worked with. So that, that's absolutely a big thing that changes. Another reason intimacy can shift is hormonal changes, but that often will happen later, depending on the person when they have kids. And I'm sure, Sherri, you have seen people of all different kinds of ages. come into your office. Something that I've seen and would be interested to talk about is I've seen more and more people in their early 40s coming in with suspicions that they're having changes to their hormones and feeling like, this is early, this isn't supposed to be happening, but I think it is. What do I do?

Yeah.

And that's often when I would encourage them to have an evaluation, have a consult with someone like you, Sherri. The combination with your question, John, is often people are having children later. I'll see people who are having kids in their mid-late 30s. Now they have still young kids and they're in their 40s, and now they're having hormonal changes. And it's, it's really both things at the same time. And evolutionarily, like, if we're having children younger, we have a lot more time in our 20s her 30s to, to go through that phase in one place before then entering the next phase of development and going through hormonal changes. But, um, yeah, there are, there are different reasons why couples will see me. And, and more and more I'm seeing both things happen. We're very stressed from working, parenting, and we're noticing these changes happening to our bodies at the same time. time. And so again, normalizing, validating that that's a very real experience, you know, and just because other people that you know are stressed also doesn't mean that you're not allowed to be stressed, right? I think a lot of us are like, well, you know, this is everybody's experience and I'm just supposed to be okay. Well, you, you can be okay, but not if we're minimizing the problem and Closing the door on it. You mentioned, John, it had only been 3 years since we had a date. Whoa, 3 years is a really long time. That's not an only 3 years situation.

It's true.

So if I'm talking with a couple and they say something like that, I'm gonna, you know, jokingly, kindly say, whoa, 3 years is a long time. You know, 3 months is maybe You know, closer to the mark. But yeah, yeah. So we want to make sure that couples are also prioritizing their relationship, even while they are so busy with, with parenting and with working. And I know firsthand what that feels like. So I know that it's not easy, but it is a simple and important change that we want couples to be making. Prioritizing their relationship.

Well, and, and when you talked about age, yes, um, for women, they start to lose progesterone in their 30s. So I, I've had the youngest woman I've been treating for hormones is 29. Um, you know, women start to lose in their 20s testosterone, but it just depends on— you've got so many things that are involved with that. Stress, how active they are, how well they eat, how well their microbiome and their gut is working. So many things are involved with that. And because it just seems to— the testosterone and progesterone for women is slowly over time, they'll say, I'm not sleeping all night, I, I can't sleep all night anymore, um, I feel anxious, I've never had anxiety before, this is so weird. And so by the time then they start to get into their 40s, average age of menopause, meaning it's an estrogen— when the estrogen is gone and there's the— no, they don't have a cycle for 12 months. That average age is like 51. So that means, yes, in the 40s, 40, 41, 42, it can start, right? We already know there's low progesterone, there's low testosterone. Most likely there are a small percentage that don't suffer low testosterone ever in their life. But it's a very small percentage. But they are already starting to have the, the moodiness. They— the symptoms end up being moodiness. They don't understand why they all of a sudden just can't stand their family or can't stand their husband. And they're tired and they're anxious. And, and to get into the physiological, they start having heavy periods and start having all these issues. And traditionally, medicine's approach to that is surgery or some sort of procedure or a drug, right? Some medication for anxiety, some medication to help you sleep. It doesn't take care of the root cause, so it doesn't take care of the feelings that are there. It just masks the symptoms. So when somebody says that to you, yes, very possibly you are having a shift at this point. It's— there's just no age, you know, there's no specific age to say that, well, no, no, no, no, if you're below 50, it's just in your head. I've had people tell me, oh my gosh, I am so good to know I'm not crazy, that this really is a physical, physiological thing. One woman actually said that it's just really nice to have answers and know I'm not crazy.

Oh, absolutely. No, and that, um, I'm sure you've seen in your career, um, you know, a shift, a positive change happening where there is more research happening on women's bodies. We do have better information, better interventions. And so hopefully there will be even less of that moving forward. But yeah, for many of the female clients that I've worked with in their 30s or early 40s, often they are. looking at, so do I need medication? You know, should I see a psychiatrist, you know, for the anxiety I'm having? And the answer is, you know, maybe, but let's also rule out some other things first. You know, let's not kind of only look at one part of it without addressing kind of that whole picture, that whole person. That am I crazy feeling, right?

Right.

Can be a really difficult one to wrestle with as an individual or to feel like my partner's looking at me me like I'm crazy is not a fun feeling either. And part of this, this mix that we're talking about of how couples can have a hard time then trusting the changes that happen when you do finally get the right mix of treatments and things do start to get better, there is that period of time where we're on edge, like, okay, this feels better now, but will it last? How long will it stay? Will there be another shift or You know, mood swings or cycle change that happens in a month or in 3 months. And so, yeah, that walking on eggshells feeling is often when people will come to see me because they want to, during that time, work on the relationship so that if this is stabilized, if physically things are, you know, better than they were and they're going to stay better than they were, we want to make sure that we have the tools to really trust each other, to talk kindly to each other, and to have a system to keep the— to keep that going. So like, John, you mentioned— I'm going to use you as an example again about, you know, this was our first date and it felt a little bit, you know, not uncomfortable, but just like, oh, how do we do this exactly?

Mm-hmm.

And I've had many couples say, like, they'll set a rule when they go on dates, we're not allowed to talk about the kids during the date. We have to talk about each other because it's such a huge part of our lives as parents. I have 2 kids, love being a parent, and I really could talk about my kids, you know, the whole conversation. But, you know, the 2 people who are there who are in a relationship together, we also want to focus on that important part. So for couples that I work with, Like I mentioned in my Intimacy Shift program, part of it is scheduling either dates or conversations and then building the skills so that those dates and conversations can be fun, can be focused on the relationship. And if there is an issue with intimacy, then we're also focused on the building intimacy part of it too. And yeah, for many couples, like having some, some skills and some practices to apply rather than just, okay, go on a date and everything will get better. You know, we wanna, we wanna have some tools there.

Tell us a little bit about your— tell us a little bit more about your program. I'm interested to hear more about it.

Sure. So it's a 12-week program, and so it's a group model. I am licensed in several states as a therapist, and so I do individual sessions, I do couples sessions, But what I've found after doing that work for such a long time is that, you know, there's a, a set of skills and practices that I'm teaching. I'm explaining, you know, over and over again that I want to get to more people, and I want to focus on, you know, these are the skills to apply. Um, because for many couples, you know, having an individual therapist is wonderful and really supportive and helpful. And for many couples, they want to learn the practices, they want homework, they're motivated to work on things. And there may not be a trauma or a mental health component or something that they need that, you know, weekly individualized support for. It's just maybe a different kind of couple or person. And so this 12-week program where I can talk to more people at once And particularly those who are really motivated to change. That's a, that's a key thing, because as a provider, if I'm seeing a couple for a year and they're not putting in place the skills or the habits that we're talking about, they're not seeing the change that they want. And I'm repeating myself, so it's not really working. And so for this program, what I really love about it is the kind of people who are there. You know, they want to do the work so that they can see the change that their relationship is really crying out for. So over the, the 12-week program, I teach a set of skills and then have homework in between. A big part of the program is developing a habit of having these relationship check-ins or conversations. It's what John and Julie Gottman call the State of the Union conversation. If you or your listeners haven't read any of the amazing books by John and Julie Gottman, they are the relationship experts, you know, worldwide for, for decades. And so part of this comes from their research that, you know, if we set aside that really focused time to talk about the relationship, and we can do it in a healthy way, that everything else in the relationship really starts to improve and get better, which makes sense when we think about it. But again, you know, I didn't have that relationship class in school, and so I had to learn these things through trial and error and through going to trainings here as an adult. So that's the, the first part of my program is really developing that relationship check-in, making sure it's happening regularly, making sure that when we have those check-ins, we're using our I language that we talked about earlier, that there's an intimacy and a connection to it, building trust. And then another big part of my program comes from emotionally focused therapy, which is the most researched, highly regarded form of couples therapy. And I really take couples through the key areas of that framework, giving them skills to apply to their relationship right away. So for many couples that I see, they're caught in a conflict loop that's never-ending. And we are constantly saying, oh, you did this. Well, I did that, but you did this first. And before that, this happened. And Instead of talking about, you know, I forgot to pick up from the grocery store something you asked me to pick up. Now we're talking about something that happened 10 years ago, and we're stuck in this, this never-ending loop of blame. And so something I am incredibly passionate about is helping couples to understand that pattern, how they get stuck in it, and breaking free from that loop. by connecting on a more trusting, intimate level by talking about their feelings. It's not so much who did what to who first as one person's feeling hurt or rejected, the other person's feeling blamed or ignored, being able to name those things and work through them. So, so as you can tell, I'm, I'm really excited and, and You know, love helping couples on this journey of rebuilding trust and intimacy. And those are just a few of the highlights from this program that I want to share with your audience. And for anybody listening that visits theintimacyshift.com and enters their email address, I have a— what I think is a really wonderful PDF guide giving couples 6 keys to have the kinds of conversations that I'm talking about. Um, and that's been incredibly helpful to my clients. Everybody who works with me gets, you know, a copy of that, um, and want your listeners to have access to it also.

Great. So the intimacyshift.com. And do you— now you talked about being licensed in several states. Are— do you do this online? Is this a 12-week online program?

Yes, it is. Yeah, great question. Yeah, all the information is, is like I shared on that website.

Okay.

Yep, yep.

Into the Intimacy Shift or intimacyshift.com. I grabbed both domains just in case. And it is an online program. Like I said, welcome to any couples that want to join or individuals that want to work on their relationship. It's, it's also okay if only one person's able to get online and access that program. It can still help the whole relationship.

So that it isn't like something that they— people can sign up at any time and start any time. It isn't where, you know, we're going to start the next program on this date and everybody goes through it together.

Oh, excellent question.

Yeah.

So the next program will start in the first week of January. So it is a live program.

Okay.

I do have content and videos and worksheets that, you know, you can access at any time, but it is live with me for those 12 weeks so that anyone in the program can ask me questions. They can put any examples or specific things about them in the chat. They can message me directly so that I can get back to them in between sessions. Now, a huge part of the work that I do is, is really about serving, you know, the person's need that I'm working with. And so I do want to make sure that I'm available for those questions. And in the moment, if there's something specific that a person is struggling with, that they're able to message me, you know, during one of those 12 weeks so that I can help them directly.

That sounds wonderful. So the beginning of January, you said? Yes. And we go to your website to sign up and to learn a little bit more. And I would say if any of your listeners or any of them out there, anybody out there has a concern that maybe their hormones are off, they can go to my website, balancedbodymedical.com. I do free discovery calls. I can do some telehealth depending on what we're looking at. I do have a lot of fellow practitioners that have trained through the BHRT Training Academy with me. So they, they know. And that is one of the things that I want to make sure— I hear a lot of people that get frustrated. My doctor won't check my, my hormone levels, or my OB-GYN this or that. I literally just spoke to a gentleman about his testosterone, and he said, well, I'm in the 200s, but they don't think I need to do anything. I'm like, Oh, goodness. Right? So tell me what's going on with your blood sugar and cholesterol. Oh, they're bad. Of course they're bad. You know, low testosterone can come to that, but I'll get— don't get me going there. But, but to know that hormones, it is a specialty, right? Your primary care probably can't help you with that. Your internist can't help you with that. Just like your primary care, your internist for women, your OB-GYN, they're not doing your heart surgery. They should not be managing your hormones either. You need to see a hormone specialist. It is very much a specialty. Everyone is so different. You know, just like Dan, you talked about, you know, everyone has has different hurts, different issues with trust, different things that have happened. Hormones. Everyone is so different. You just cannot treat everybody the same because we're all unique. So theintimacyshift.com for your relationships. And at anything in your relationship, right, Dan? If you feel that your relationship needs even just a little bit of help or a boost of some sort, your program sounds like it would be absolutely wonderful. And balancedbodymedical.com for your hormone shifts or needs.

That was a perfect— that was a perfect ending, Sherri. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And honestly, I was gonna— I was gonna try to fit this in somewhere, but it feels like I'm just ramming it in, but you're— we love analogies on this, uh, podcast, Dr. Dan, and we always talk about hormones being like bits and pieces of a car. Um, you know, different hormones, different pieces. I almost feel like we need to add Sherri to that— the smart computer. Smart computer is Dan's component on like how to shift our discussions and understand relationships.

The computer chip. Yeah.

How they can, how they can start jacking with all the different hormone levels because of the external stress.

Well, we have the car, Dan. So cortisol is the engine, thyroid's the transmission. We've got the, you know, the tires or wheels, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, and DHEA. And then we have insulin as the electrical system. And so we talk about how they all work together like a car. So that's where John is talking about, you know, maybe it's that Maybe it's that chip. Yeah, I don't know. I think we gotta look at that a little bit differently.

Well, not, not being a car expert at all, and actually my, my, my, I have to go pick up my car because it's in the shop right now. But I was, I was gonna say maybe, maybe the road that we're driving on, you know, can, can be the relationship part of it. Because if there's potholes in that road, you know, cracks in the road, we want to make sure that what our body is driving on is, is smoothed out as much as possible.

Oh, I like that. Because even if the car is running perfect, the car is running perfect, we might still have some problems with the road. And we need to smooth that road out for a smooth ride. Because it's a bumpy ride.

It's a bumpy ride.

It's so true. Perfect.

Well, thank you so much, Dr. Dan, and thank you, Sherri, for spending time talking hormones and the path that we're leading through life, um, getting the right kind of directions to avoid potholes.

So, no, this is perfect. Thank you so much, Dan, for being here. I really appreciate it. I know that this just helps my listeners even more, just holistically, and, and something that is really needed. Thank you so much.

You're welcome. Thank you.