Getting Started With JV Partnerships

A game changer for your business. Welcome to Cashing on Camera. I'm your host, Cheryl Plouffe, and I have Danny Berment here with us today to talk about JV partnerships. We're here on Cashing on Camera today. Of course, we're here to help you get more clients, referrals, and speaking engagements. And so for business leaders, Danny, who want to get into joint venture relationships with people, there's some things to know, you know, in terms of starting out. So I'd love to start with your definition of joint venture. Is it a partnership or is it something different?

So there is a bit of a misconception around partnerships. If you Google partnerships or joint ventures, if you go onto YouTube and look up joint ventures, you'll get a load of videos around things to do with companies basically joining forces to work together on a project. Or if you think about airlines, for example, right? American Airlines and British Airways. Have a joint venture where they both run their flights. So joint ventures, obviously, that I'm talking about is nothing like that. It's about basically agreeing to join forces when it comes to marketing together. And the form that it usually takes is where two companies want to support each other to help them grow. So for example, it may be that you have got a promotion coming up And what happens is that a company that have a similar audience to yours will tell their audience all about your, you know, about your event coming up, your promotion coming up, and then you will in turn, because you have a similar audience to them, you will then also be working with them to publicise something that they do. And what you're doing is you're essentially, rather than you both going out and having to, for example, advertise, You are both raising each other's boats. You're both raising each other's profile.

Love that. So it's not a legal partnership. A joint venture doesn't always have to be some type of legal partnership where you're signing on the dotted line. It can be an agreement between two parties that they're going to help each other market each other's things. Correct. And in that process though, we do want to probably make sure that there's fairness amongst both of those parties in terms of what each is bringing to the table. And so I know this is what you do in your work with Miramasi as the director of partnerships. You do a lot of this kind of stuff. How do you ensure or what advice do you have to beginner business leaders who are really trying to understand like, well, how is it fair? How do we determine what's fair in terms of each other helping each other out?

I think that when you're working with, it depends who you're working with. If you're working with a partner who is much bigger than you,, they will have a certain level of, if you like, leverage over you. So my advice, for example, if you're working with a larger company, is you may actually need to be the first person to actually help them. You would, in your first time that you contact them, you'd actually be suggesting, what can I do to help you? I really like your, I really like your product, or I really like your, your audience, and I'd love to, you know, I think my audience will really benefit. So you do, there isn't, there is this principle where you really do need to going into partnerships is all about you saying, what can I do to support you, rather than what can I do to get out, to get something out of this. The important thing is you need to make sure that your partner to some extent has the same attitude. So when you are pulling your finger out to support them, because they don't know who you are, they might be much bigger than you, you need to understand, you know, after a certain amount of time, it's seeing whether there's something they can do to support you as well. And so it does, that does need to be, you need to explore whether there's going to be reciprocation. You don't necessarily have to explore that the first time straight away. For example, when you understand, when you're trying to understand how they work, you want to explore, is this, you know, do you as a company, do you also support your partners or is it just a one-way thing where we have lots of affiliates supporting us and what we do in return is we pay them commission, right? So there's different sorts of joint venture partnerships. There's partnerships where you have a load of people supporting you and you pay them commission, but most of the partners that we work with, commission is just one consideration. They are looking for publicity as well.

Yes. So commission, uh, you know, in terms of the, the currency, shall we say, that's being, you know, decided upon, could be commission-based. It could be— could it also be just visibility on each other's platforms, or does there always have to be a financial tie to the joint venture?

No, no. And in fact, a lot of partners are not interested in financial tie at all. Yes, it's nice to get commission, but certainly most of the partners we work with, their main, their primary consideration is what can we do together to help to raise both our profiles, uh, for, for the partners that we work with, that, that is the primary consideration. It's, it's we want to grow our audience, uh, we need to grow our audience so we can grow our business, so we can grow our revenue, uh, and the commission is going to be a minor consideration compared to that.

Interesting. In the world that we are in right now, it feels that there are a lot of changes going on with the tech giants, and I think it presents this idea around joint ventures in a, in a different light. And my belief is that this will be even more important over the next decade for business owners and business leaders to really dial this in for themselves in terms of who do they have access to, who is in their database, who is part of their network. I'd love to speak to what you believe about the power of joint ventures as we move through the next, say, 5 or 10 years. I mean, it's always been important, but I believe it's going to be ever more important. What are your thoughts around the importance of joint ventures moving forward?

I think particularly in the fact that we are going to be going through a couple of very difficult years financially, a lot of companies mistakenly cut back on their marketing budgets and okay, some, some things you can cut back on, something you can't back on, can't, can't cut back on. But one thing you can do differently is you can say, okay, we're no longer willing to invest as much as we did in our advertising. But what we will do is that we will invest a lot more in joint venture partnerships because with joint venture partners, there isn't a financial outlay, but there is an outlay in terms of time that you have to invest in building those relationships to help each other.

Yeah, time and sweat equity, if you want to put it that way. But putting in the time could be another way of still achieving your business goals without necessarily paying out to advertising.

Correct, correct. There is, there is no doubt there is a people cost in investing in joint venture partnerships. However, what you have with a, with a joint venture partnership is often a much more aligned audience. You can advertise on Facebook, and their algorithm is very clever, and it will help you to find some people in the Facebook community who, who are, who are a good fit. However, when you're working with a joint venture partner, they will often— if you've done your due diligence, you will often have a much, much closer fit with your audience than you would ever have with advertising.

That is a great point, that you can, as the business leader, decide on who you want to have joint venture relationships with. Correct. Process in determining— and it might take a bit of time to have conversations and figure out, do we have the same What is the exchange, et cetera? But in the end, you end up with a great strategy. And that's really what that is. Joint ventures is a great strategy. You were mentioning earlier about this idea of reciprocity. I want to dig into that a little bit more. What is the principle that you sort of live by over there at Miracy?

So I want to start by saying that reciprocity is somewhat misunderstood. I have had meetings with partners that we considered working with and they said, I'm not really interested in reciprocity. It seems to me to be an issue of you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. That's not what reciprocity is. Reciprocity is really very much about what can I— it's you actually thinking, what can I do to support you? So it's rather than going into this transactional mindset of what can I do, what can I get out of this? It's actually approaching the partner, looking at what, you know, I really, I really like what you're doing, I like your audience, I think there's a really good fit, I believe in what you're trying to achieve, what can I do to support you? And you both have that mindset. And in fact, going into, altogether, going into that kind of reciprocal relationship rather than thinking, you know, you sent me this many customers, so I'm going to send you this many customers, It's actually constantly trying to raise your game with partners, thinking, wow, you gave me a lot of support. I really want to raise my game now and see what we can do to even improve on what you did for us. And so you're both— essentially, you're both being a little bit competitive in terms of not just saying, okay, you give me this much support, I'll give you this much support. But it's constantly looking what else, what other value can you add to that relationship? And it doesn't just have to be about joint marketing. It can also be things like, we serve very different customers, we should meet up to see who we can refer each other to. It could be things like, we have some really great insights from our launch that we just did, we just had a campaign, I'd love to share with you some of the things that we did which I think could help you. So it's looking altogether in terms of what, not just joining forces in terms of marketing, but also sharing information, uh, and, and, and just thinking outside the box about what else you could do to help each other grow.

Yeah. Yes. The principle of, you know, givers do gain. And if you go into it with a mindset of not expecting anything in return, but being of that giving and service mindset, what I have always found is it does come back to you at some point. You know, it's putting this goodwill out there is And I think it makes the business leader also feel good about themselves too. It's not always a, it's not always a like, what am I getting out of this relationship type of feeling? It's really more about how can I be the giver first, you know, in the relationship. How many joint ventures is too many? Because if we're talking about putting time and putting energy into relationship building, how many joint ventures is too many?

I think you have to look at, first, just be realistic about your capacity. So if you have a situation where you are managing too many different partnerships, it's going to dilute your ability to work with people. You're not going to be able to give people the attention that you need. But I think this subject of how many partnerships is too many really depends on your business and what your audience are used to. So some joint venture partners will have audiences that are used to being promoted to quite often. I don't even like using the word promoted to, but they're used to having, they're used to being told about other people's services, other people's training, other people's events. So if that audience is used to having regular, you know, informative emails that tell them about all sorts of other people, then that's fine. But if your audience is not used to that, if they're used to maybe hearing about once or twice a month, you just need to think quite carefully about how your audience will respond. And if you are thinking of gradually upping your ante and sharing more external marketing with the audience, you need to think about, you know, about preparing them for that, or maybe telling them about some of the things you've got planned. Every single audience has a, if you like, almost like a personality in that the audiences, one person's audience will respond amazingly to somebody and another audience, that same person will go down like a lead balloon. So you have to, you just have to be really, you really, you have to have a very good ear for what your audience responds to and that needs to be your guide. And yes, for example, we work with joint venture partners who will say to me, we only promote 5 or 6 other partners a year. And that's what our audience is used to. And even when they promote other partners, they may only send out 1 or 2 emails to do that.

Yeah, well, that's a good parameter. You know, it may not necessarily be that you have to go out and find 30 different joint venture partners. You know, it's a smaller number and you can really give a lot of quality time and energy into those joint venture partnerships that you've developed. I think it's also about understanding, to your point, understanding your business and your audience, your list, so to speak, and also your customer journey so that you can build those joint venture relationships with the right people. So maybe you have a program and you bring people through, but maybe there is like the next stage of their development as a business owner or whatever it is they're doing, but it's not in your, it's not in your purview to go down that path. It could be, here is the next person that can help you on the next stage of the development of your business. Is that a good use of a joint venture relationship?

Yeah, I think the key, the key thing with the joint venture relationship is you have to think very carefully about the language you use with your audience. One of the things that people who are new to this will say is, well, my audience don't like being promoted to. And it's really all about how do you go about communicating other— what other people are doing, right? So you can say, for example, I know you've been struggling with this challenge, right? So your struggle, your challenge might be, uh, I am really scared of networking. I don't know how to go about that. I would like to introduce you to this person who has basically spent the last 20 years helping people to overcome their fears of networking, right? I'm so— and, and he's running a workshop which I think will really help you to overcome some of those fears. So if you pitch, when you're promoting something, if you're pitching it as you are really bringing people on board who are going to help your audience solve a problem that you know they have, it becomes a different conversation. And I think that's why marketing, you know, marketing often unfortunately has a bad name because there is this strong emphasis on promotion, promotion, promotion. But actually, what are we here to do? And what I'm, you know, if I think about what we're at Miracy are here to do, 'What are our partners here to do?' We're here to basically help people improve their lives. We're helping them to improve how they go about running their business and how to go about— a lot of the promotions that we run are to do with helping people also to solve personal challenges they're dealing with. So if you're using that kind of terminology, which is all about helping people, then it becomes a very different interaction.

Yeah, and I would encourage people to go and check out, uh, mercy.com in order to learn more about the work that you're doing as well, because I love, I love how you support people to do this. And you and I are fairly new to each other, you know, in terms of the relationship that we're building ourselves. And, and it speaks to the theme of today's video and audio is that getting started with JV partnerships— how can people start getting joint venture partnerships going, what is the best way for them to meet the right people that they're going to need to meet?

It can take a very basic form. It can be things like you're going to a local networking meeting, you're meeting people there who are sort of, who are basically are similar to you, or they might have a business that's complimentary to you. And it's just exploring if you do, if you get along, which of course matters, if you have, if you feel you have similar audiences, if you feel that the offers that you both have are nicely kind of matched, it's then exploring, okay, how can we support each other? Is there some sort of campaign we can run together? Is there something you're running that we can tell our audience about? Or simply, is it just a matter of referrals? Is it a matter of sitting down together and saying, look, we clearly have a lot in common. Why don't we both look at each other's audiences? For example, it could be looking at each other's LinkedIn profiles, seeing some of the people that we work with and thinking, would this person benefit from an introduction to you? Yeah.

And it's really, it's talking. I mean, I think we are living in, we live in a world where I think we want, you know, automation and we want to kind of take ourselves out of the equation, but at the end of the day, it's really going back to basics and actually having conversations with people and just talking, getting to know each other.

Correct. Correct. Business owners have a tendency to think, okay, what is the most complicated thing I can do to get new business? So they will, you know, they will be focusing on all sorts of horribly complicated ways of getting new clients. When there are people in the room that they're staring at, you know, there are people in their community, their connections of friends of theirs, and it's all there, but they're not utilizing it.

Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I think that business owners have a tendency to want to complicate things that don't need to be complicated. It can be as simple as, hey, we should get on a Zoom call. We should get on a phone call. Let's talk. Let's discuss. What are you up to? What are you up to? And then you never know where that conversation will lead. And it might require a couple to a few conversations to figure out, about what type of joint venture partnership there could be. It's really about spending the time to get to know someone and better understand what it is they're building. And then conversely, I mean, you share what you're building as well. And so tell us a little bit about the work that you do specifically there at Miracy. I think it's so interesting that you are, you're the director of partnerships. So we know that from a title perspective, but what does that mean?

What it means is that we are, I am constantly looking at external companies who might be a good fit for our audiences because we have 8 companies. It's looking, it's identifying people who might be a good fit for us and then it's exploring what we can do to support each other and then it's actually implementing those promotions. So it's a mixture, there are something like 200+ partners that I currently work with who are working with us across a number of different promotions that we have running all year round. It's also looking at what they're doing and what we can support. An awful lot of partnerships is also about ensuring that everyone keeps to their promise. So partners, people you partner with on a joint venture, will be full of goodwill. They'll say, I'd love to support you, But you're often working with people who either are a one-man band, or it might be a one-man band of virtual assistants, or it will be a company that doesn't really have very good processes in place. And the ball gets dropped, things happen. So partnerships, managing partnerships is very much about ensuring that everybody remembers to do what they said they would do and that everything is working as it would do. And that's a mistake that's often made in partnerships. Lots of deals are agreed, say great, Someone will say, I'm on board, I'd love to support you, and then nothing happens. So a major, a major, a major part of it is making sure that those things do happen.

Yeah, I've put your email on the screen, danny.bermant@miracy.com, if people want to reach out to you and learn more about the work that you're doing. And the last thing I would ask is, what is something that Danny is working for you either personally or at Mirasee to help you market yourselves. It could be related to joint ventures or unrelated. What is a tip, tool, tactic, or technique that's really helping you to market yourself today?

Um, a tip— I would say the tip, the biggest tip I would give, uh, around marketing is to ask. We are so scared to ask for help, and one thing that I will do is reach out to people and say, listen, I really want to meet XYZ, you know, as a particular type of person I'm really interested in meeting. Do you know anybody? Do you know anyone who can, you know, who can help, who, uh, is, is, is going to fit this kind of criteria? Uh, you'll be surprised. I mean, that, that is what the reason that I, I'm always kind of surprised at how people look for really complicated ways to market themselves, because the best way to market yourself is actually start asking people around you for help. Who do you know who can do this and this thing? And that's— that, that is, I would say, that, that, that has been for me the biggest eye-opener.

I love that. It's a simple tip, but it's so effective. And it's something that we maybe have a tendency not to do as much. We are head down, we're in the work, we're in the weeds, we're doing the things. But really, if we want to lift our heads up and just ask other people for what it is that we want I think we would all benefit from that. It's a great tip.

We think we're— we think we are putting a burden on people when we ask for help. Actually, people want to help. They want to be asked. So it's— it's— you're not doing anyone any favors with that kind of mindset.

Danny, this has been really a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining us on Cash In On Camera today. And in the spirit of asking, why don't I put this out to our audience right now? Who would you like to see next on the podcast? Let me know in the comments if you're watching this on video or send me an email, send me a message. I'm pretty reachable on social media @SherylPlouffe and tell me, ask, I'm asking you, who is it that you'd like to hear next on Cashing On Camera? We'll see what the responses are. Thank you so much, Danny, for coming on today. We really appreciate it, all the way from the UK.

Thank you for having me.