Relationship Marketing: How to Do It Well Without Spamming People

It can also be the opposite of that. It can really literally be going down in the DMs, meaning not in a good path.

Cheryl Plouffe here.

Welcome to Cash In On Camera, where we help you to grow your business by being visible and by putting yourself out there and using marketing techniques that are working for the year that we live in. And I have Kendra Swalls with me today. She's the creator of the Girl Means Business brand and podcast. She's a former photographer turned business coach and a relationship marketing expert. She's here today to talk about how you can use relationship marketing and how to do it well without spamming people. And I've actually got an example that I'm gonna share in today's episode of communication that happened with me in the DMs that was unsolicited. And we're gonna get Kendra's reaction to it live on the show today, and then figure out how could that person maybe have done things differently or better to have made a better impression on me. So Kendra, so glad to have you here. Tell us a little bit about your backstory and how you got, how you came to become a relationship marketing expert.

Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. So as you mentioned, I started my entrepreneurial journey as a photographer. I was an elementary teacher prior to that, and I really fell in love with the business side of running a business. You know, a lot of creatives get into business because they love you know, what they're doing. But I really fell in love with, you know, the idea of marketing and branding and all the things that go into it. And so I started kind of experimenting with different marketing strategies, and I really found that kind of my strong point was building relationships with my potential clients, having those conversations that felt really real and authentic, and, um, that people hired me because I was me, not necessarily because I was the best at what I did or that I had the best pricing. It was because they had connected with me. And so that started opening up a lot of me like exploring, experimenting, learning about what relationship marketing is and how to do it well. And also, you know, some failures and like we're going to talk about today, some of the not so great ways to do it. And so now that's what I teach other people how to do because it's not something that I think is It's not everybody's, you know, natural ability, but it's also not something that you hear of as like a marketing strategy all the time. A lot of times it's kind of, oh, that's just one little side part to it, but I think it can be a really big part of it.

I think that in the marketing space, a lot of it is tactical or technology-oriented, but relationship marketing is more of a soft skill. I would say it's, it's more subjective and it is more personal. And it— there's so much, there's so much nuance to it, I think, in the relationship marketing field. And it touches, in my opinion, every aspect of your marketing, no matter what the tactic is that you're trying to, to use. And so I wanted to dig into this specifically from the angle of the DMs, right? We always hear about, hey, it's going down in the DM, send me a DM, or You know, there are services that are built all around just sending unsolicited DMs. People spend a lot of money doing those types of campaigns.

So let's talk about it from the angle of the DMs.

But obviously everything that we're talking about here can be applied to sending an email, communicating in other ways. But DMs is a really powerful way and can be very advantageous if done correctly. Yes. What do you think is the biggest mistake that people are making in the DMs?

So I think the biggest mistake is going into it with this kind of cold call mentality, you know. I, coming from, you know, people who have come from the sales world or even the network marketing world where you're kind of told like reach out to 10 people and tell them about your business or invite them to learn more, I think that that is the biggest mistake is that people still have the idea that I need to just pop into, it's all about the numbers. If I just get into 20 people's DMs and tell them about what I do, you know, it's a numbers game. 2 or 3 of them are gonna respond. The problem with that is, is that you're really turning more people off than you are actually attracting them. Um, it's, it's kind of become this whole like, hey girl message, you know, where it's like, hey girl, how are you? Or, you know, reaching out and being like the ones that we're going to show today where it's just kind of, you didn't ask for this and you have no prior connection. That's the big thing is there's no prior connection in any way, shape, or form. And that's the selling, you know.

When it, when it's an unsolicited DM and it comes seemingly out of— well, it's not seemingly, it comes out of nowhere. Yeah, our spidey senses are tingling. Right? You know, instinctually, I'm trying to be— they're trying to sell me something. There's an agenda. Yep. And, and you just kind of know it. And so could I show you an example? Like, let me show you. I took some— so just to give context, I received an unsolicited message on Facebook Messenger from someone. I'm not going to reveal his name or anything like that, so I've screenshotted the, the conversation in about 4 different snapshots. I'm going to show them in succession, in order, and we're going to read them together, and we're going to get Kendra's reaction to why it doesn't work, why I feel like I don't want to respond to this, why I feel like I don't— I might want to block this person, right?

Yeah.

So let's go through them. All right, so number 1, and I'm just going to change the format of how we're seeing this right now. So here's obviously his name's Brian, but I'm not giving away his last name. So, okay. So let's read it together. And there you go. Hey Cheryl, great to connect. Checked out your website. Love that you help people increase their organic reach. Very cool. Mind if I ask you a question? And I was like, here's the thing I was thinking. I'm like, I may have met this person on a call. I'm on a lot of networking calls. And so I thought, oh, I might as well. I probably met him. And so yeah, sure. Brian, ask away. The second part is, all right, awesome. As I mentioned, I've been on your website. Looks like you've been a business consultant for a while. How are you enjoying it? At this point, I'm only two messages in. I'm going, mm, how am I enjoying it? Yes, I'm enjoying my work very much. Thanks for asking.

What I choose to do for a living.

So yeah, what I do for a living. Okay, number three. Oh, that's so nice to hear. Is there anything though about being a business consultant that you find challenging? Um, how about all of it? How about like 8,000 things that I don't have time to get into with you on this Facebook Messenger thread right now? So I did—

at this is the—

at the point where I was like, well, I'm not going to respond. Obviously we're going nowhere with this, and you're obviously have an agenda and you're trying to sell me something. And then his— he's like, Cheryl, are you there? Still no response from me. He sends me an audio message. Okay, fine. And then follows it up with a video that was a canned video. It wasn't specific to me. Did you get a chance to see that what I sent over? Curious to hear your feedback. Okay, so yeah, so many thoughts.

So many thoughts.

Tell us what you think.

So I will say at the very beginning, it was not a terrible start to the conversation. Because, you know, it was like great to connect, like you said, like you kind of were like, oh, well, maybe I met this person somewhere and they're just reaching out. I will say one thing is, when you are reaching out to somebody, you want to be specific in how you know that person. So you might say like, hey, I came across your Facebook page because it was recommended to me by so-and-so, or I saw you in this Facebook group, or I heard you on this podcast, or You know, be specific so that they know like, okay, this person found me through this avenue, especially if it's like an in-person or networking event, that kind of thing. And then, you know, I do think that first message was kind of like, may I ask you a question? Like, yeah, like I'm a business coach. I get people all the time who are like, can I ask you a question about X, Y, or Z? Again, I think you might want to be more specific and just say like, do you mind if I ask you a question about something, you know, like keeping it as specific as possible. I think it's the generalness, it's the kind of that it's very vague, and that kind of gets those Spidey senses going. So that was the first part. Now the second part where, you know, the question of how do you enjoy it, and obviously you can tell from that second message that person either scanned your website, your about page really quickly, and just grabbed any piece of like keyword, you know, that jumped out to them. But yes, that one. So how are you enjoying it? Again, that is like an immediate red flag. Like no one in real life is going to say, you know, how are you enjoying it? You want to be more specific. So if you were trying to reach out to somebody and you've said, hey, I met you at this networking event. I followed up by looking at your website. Do you mind if I ask you a question about you know, in my case, like how to start an email list. And then I would respond and then come back with again, you know, more specific type things or even just saying like, I would love to connect, you know, maybe we can discuss ways that we can work together. But coming at it with that, like, you know, how do you enjoy it?

I mean, I think it was at that point that I knew I was like, oh yeah, I see what's going on here. I didn't meet this person before. I know this this is like a, like you said at the beginning of this conversation, kind of a cold call mentality. And, and you get that sense of it. Um, but, and I think it was at that point where I decided, okay, I'm not going to keep responding. Like, I don't have time for that.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's when I start—

go ahead, go ahead. No, I was just gonna say, like, that's the part too where you can start to tell it's a copy and paste thing. Like, I don't think anywhere in there up until he like right there where he— he says, Cheryl, question mark. I think that's the first time he even addressed you in a personal manner. And so that's the other thing is when you're reaching out to someone, you want to personalize it because nobody wants to feel like that they've received a copy and paste question.

And I think at this point, although I'm not going to play the audio, but in this audio message, if memory serves me, he did say my name in the audio.

Okay. Yeah.

In the video though, this video was not personalized. This was very— and as a video marketing person, I obviously know, right, uh, that this was a canned video that's being sent out and copy and copied and pasted to multiple people.

Yeah. And just the— I mean, like, if when he didn't hear back from you after the audio message, that should have been his sign to be like, okay, She's not interested. I'm going to move on. It's the persistent, you know, like coming back with more like, are you there? Did you listen to this? Okay, you didn't listen. You didn't respond to my audio, but let me send you a video because maybe you'll respond to that. It's just too much. It's like that guy you went on one coffee date with and now he won't stop texting you. You know, you're like, just stop.

Yeah. Well, no, I appreciate your feedback to that. And I think it's something I hope that by sharing that example, it can lead to Maybe, you know, those of you who are watching and listening to this episode today to say, hey, you know what, I can better recognize now when I see this type of thing in my own DMs, whether it's LinkedIn's terrible for it, right? LinkedIn, Facebook, sometimes on Instagram too, you know, all different methods and varieties of messages that we receive. And, you know, I think it's, it's important to be able to— we all have to guard our time. And our energy. And so you want to save your time and energy for the relationships that are legitimate, you know, and starting that off on a positive note. One of the things that I love about the teaching that I do around the video podcasting piece is that this is— this whole thing is a way to start a relationship off on a good foot so that you don't come across as spammy to begin with, because, you know, you and I, if I now message you, Kendra, right, you're not going to be like, who is this person spamming me? You've been on the show, I've invited you on, you know. And so now we have started out a relationship off on a good foot.

Yeah.

But I think if it's like a cold call mentality, and I think you're right, it happens a lot in the MLM industry because they're being coached to do that. Hey, it's a numbers game, you know, you just got to get out there and, you know, have no fear and just don't be intimidated and you know, send all these messages out, but I think ultimately it, it comes back and it shoots you in the foot.

Yeah, yeah. And I, I think like there are good ways to do it. I mean, I realize that, you know, connecting in the DMs, building those relationships, that's a key part of, you know, growing a business. But there are, there are ways to do it. And unfortunately, like, I think the other mistake people have with the whole like cold call DM thing is that they think that it's gonna be this instant gratification. It's like, I'm gonna send this message, they're gonna reply, we're gonna move into the phase where they hire me or they purchase my product or service or whatever. But relationship marketing is a little bit of a long game. And one of the things I like to tell people to do is you need to show up on their radar before you message them.

So for example—

Ooh, yes. Yeah, with like Facebook. So let's say that there's— they have a Facebook page, then spend some time going in and commenting on their posts, liking their posts. Like, they're gonna see your name come up in these notifications of, okay, Kendra liked my post, Kendra commented on this post, Kendra did this. And now when I go and send them a message and I'm gonna personalize it and I'm gonna make it like authentically having a conversation with them, I'm no longer just this random person. I'm someone who's already been on their radar, even if it's not really kind of subconsciously, you know, they're going to recognize that name and that photo.

But there's a problem, Kendra, and I am being facetious here. The problem is it takes time. Oh no, I gotta make a sale today. That's the problem. The mentality is instant gratification. The mentality is go for the kill, right? Go for the jugular. I need to make this sale. It's a sales mentality that's driving this desire to want to spam people or message people out of the blue without having done any research and being able to, like you said, be specific. They can't be specific because they haven't spent the time to figure out who you even are.

Yeah, but if it's a numbers game, I mean, think about this, like let's say you message 20 people that you've never interacted with before, you know, maybe 1 or 2 of them actually— let's just, we'll play the numbers game. We'll say 1 or 2. So like 10%. So let's say 10%, 2 people decide, okay, I'm going to hire this person, I'm going to purchase this product, whatever. They become clients. That's fine. But what if instead you take 5 people and you invest the time to get on their radar, to engage with them, to build that relationship, and then all 5 of them or even 4 of them become clients of yours, you've now doubled your clients with, you know, a fourth of the inner— of the, you know, pool of people to go to. So I mean, even when people say like it's a numbers game, well, okay, but the numbers are higher in your favor if you're, you know, I'm not much of a gambler, but if you were like, the odds are higher in your favor if you go with a smaller pool of people and really invest in those 5 to 10 people or, you know, however many you go with. Versus the 20 to 25 where you're just kind of like, I'm going to throw darts at the wall and see if something sticks.

And I think too, especially for people who are in service-based industries, where maybe you have high-ticket offers and things like that, that are not— you're not relying on a funnel or mass numbers. If you have high-ticket services that you don't need that many clients to be able to make a good living, You know, you're just, I think, harming yourself by building and starting these relationships off on the wrong foot.

Yeah, I completely agree.

Yeah. And so, um, yeah, I love that. And one of the things that— well, tell me a little bit about the Girl Means Business brand and podcast. I mean, you're obviously— this is really all you do is about relationship marketing and helping women go from the, the just surviving thing to thriving into really growing.

Yeah. So I, you know, I, when I started my business, I was a new mom and I now have two girls. And so I'm doing the mompreneur thing and I know the struggle that comes with being a mompreneur and trying to do all the things. And so I wanted to be a resource, a kind of a guide for those women who are, you know, trying to figure it all out. And there's so much information out there. There's so many people saying like, do this, try this, be this, you know, implement this. And I wanted to be able— someone who was like, I'm gonna filter all of that and just give you what you actually need to do in order to grow your business where you are right now. Um, and the podcast, you know, kind of came about too because I, I love talking to people. I love having conversations like this. I was like, that's a great way for me to get information out there. And, um, you know, it's better— I'm better at talking than I am writing, so blogging was off the table. And so it's just been, it's been something that I really love doing. It's allowed me to bring in some of my teaching background into helping entrepreneurs, you know, and I use a lot of the skills I used when I was in the classroom. And I just love it. I love helping women feel fulfilled in their own lives.

Yeah. GirlMeansBusiness.com is where you can find out more information on the brand and the podcast. And that's fantastic. Thank you so much for that, Kendra. One last thing that we do on the show is we have a segment called Stop Marketing Like It's 1999, where I ask you for a tip, a tool, a tactic, or some type of technique that's using— that you're using to market yourself or your brand for the year that we live in. So what do you have to share with the audience today?

So my, like, I guess, you know, my marketing tip kind of goes to what we're talking about today, and that is just there's so many tools out there, but I think the best thing you can do is not get caught up in all of like, okay, well, I need to download this app or I need to use this program, is just kind of going in and becoming familiar with your audience, really knowing who they are, finding out which platforms they're spending time on, and invest in those platforms and not try to spread yourself so thin. Um, you know, I talk about, I've mentioned this in my podcast recently about how my parents owned a business when I was growing up, and they were in the Yellow Pages, you know, the phone book. And oh yeah, yeah, like paying for ads in the phone book. And when websites came along, they were like, oh, we don't need a website, we're fine. And these other, these other companies kind of surpassed them. Um, and so I was like, you know, if you're not growing and learning about these social platforms and the technology that we have now that connects people, it's kind of like still paying for advertising in the phone book. You know, you're not gonna grow and you're not gonna evolve. So I think that paying attention to the trends and the things happening on social platforms is really important.

Yeah, I think it's, I think it's wise advice because, and it, and it does take some time, right? You do have to like keep learning, be a lifelong learner. Yes, things are always, always changing with technology and social and now web Web 3.0 and like, you know, all, all this kind of stuff with crypto, the metaverse. I'm learning about all of that right now. It's like, yeah, it's just on another level. But I think that the learning never stops, you know, and I hope that that's what we help to do on this show as well as your own podcast, right, is we're trying to further that education so that women and, and men, uh, can grow their businesses as well. So thank you so much for being on Cash In On Camera. This has been a great conversation, and I love that you able to give us advice with a real-life example in that case study that we had today.

That was awesome. Thank you so much for having me.