From Desert's Edge to Your Glass: Chaim Sackton's Gilad Winery

Welcome to The Kosher Teruah.

I'm Simon Jacob, your host for this episode from Jerusalem. Before we get started, I ask that wherever you are, please take a moment and pray for the safety of our soldiers and the safe return of all of our hostages. Welcome back to The Kosher Terroir, the podcast where we journey through landscapes, legends, and layers of kosher wine from around the world. In this episode, we venture to Senna, a rugged and breathtaking mountainous settlement near Geva Benyamin, just outside of Jerusalem. Perched above steep drops into the Jordan Valley, this dramatic terrain is home to Gilad Winery, a boutique gem producing wines as elegant and nuanced as the land itself. We're joined by Chaim Sakten, the owner and winemaker behind Gilad Winery. With a background in hands-on viticulture and a deep reverence for the Mediterranean climate, Chaim crafts lighter, more approachable wines that are perfect for this sun-drenched terroir. Adding to this journey is Itzhak Stern, one of Israel's most beloved wine tour guides. Together, we step into the barrel room and sip through a collection of elegant terroir-driven wines that define kosher Mediterranean style. This isn't just a tasting, it's a story of vision, place, and passion, all poured into every bottle. If you're driving in your car, please focus on the road ahead. If you're relaxing at home, please uncork something fresh and join us as we explore this boutique winery known as Gilad.

Gilad Winery is— we're located here in Yeshuv Sene. We're on the border of the desert, and the view looking east is Shevet Reuven is the Gilead Mountain region.

That was the first question I had for you. It's such an important name. How did you pick it for the winery and why?

So when I was looking for a name and I was looking for a short name that works in English and represents biblical and Israeli wine, I'm not looking to be an American. I started off actually with my last name, Sackton. Sackton Winery.

Right.

But it's just too American.

That's what I thought.

It's just too American. Okay. I walk out, you know, drinking my coffee in the morning, looking outside on the view, and I see— unbelievable— Gilead Mountains. Right. And I'm saying, wait a second, this is Gilead, and Gilead is a beautiful name. Right. So that's what it is. Very cool. So now the name Midbar, basically all my wines, they have— I took the names, biblical names, from the Gilead region. So the first series we're talking about Midbar, there's an Arab town that still exists till today. It's called Madaba. It's in Jordan. And it's brought down in Sefer Bamidbar and Shevet Reuven that they went to Midbar. So there is a biblical city there. There's a famous map that they found in Midbar.

Mosaic.

The mosaic map. The most antique map of Jerusalem. Basically. So that's— one of my ideas are to put a map one day on the Midbar series, but it's kind of mosaic. It doesn't fit the modern look, but somehow I'll have to fit it in.

Tell me the first series, what does it include? It includes a Chenin?

Includes a Chenin Blanc, Rosé, and a blend of GSM.

Okay, so the rosé is made out of what?

The rosé is made out of Merlot, straight Merlot.

Okay.

I got the grapes from Har Bracha. I have a vineyard over there. I buy my grapes, most of my grapes I've been buying from this area and the area over here. This is a vineyard in Har Bracha that has very high acidity.

Okay.

So it fits for rosé. Perfect. I've been making rosé out of Merlot for a couple years. We're very happy with it. and Mizra Tashem will continue.

And the last one?

The next one is a red wine, a GSM. It's a light wine, it's very nice. The grapes are actually not from this area, they're from up north, from the Galil. What should I say about it?

It's a real Grenache Syrah Merved.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes. The percentages are more Grenache and Syrah less— I mean, more Grenache, more red. There's a drop of Syrah.

Okay.

Um, it's, it's basically a Grenache.

I love Grenache-heavy wines, and I love wines that have a lot of Grenache because they're very light and they're just beautiful.

So you'll like this wine. It's, it's almost a rosé, and, and the taste— I mean, not— it's a red wine and it has the, has the qualities of red wine, but it's, it's very light.

Okay.

I did— I, I pushed it a lot before Leila Seder for people that have a hard time drinking you know, heavy wines. And the Arbokosas—

and what's the alcohol level?

Um, 13.

It's 13. Okay, okay, cool.

It's not always about the alcohol level, it's about the soaking of the grapes. And also, Garnache is a light grape, so it doesn't have to be— it's not about the alcohol level. I mean, usually when you have a high alcohol, it means the grapes were harvested later, um, but not, not always.

Garnache is one of my favorite varietals.

Okay, so I'm happy I have it. That's the first GSM I ever made.

Cool.

Okay.

This next level, how many levels are there?

There's 4.

4, okay.

The next one is called Nachal Yabok. Nachal Yabok is the border of Gilad and Bashan. Obviously, we still have that Nachal today. We have Yaakov Avinu, we know he passed in Ma'ava Yabok. So it's a famous, uh, it's a famous name.

Yeah.

Um, in the series of Nachly Abok, I have a straight Cab. Yeah. And I have a blend, a blend Bordeaux. It's Cabernet Merlot and Petit Verdot.

Cool.

So these two are just a little— they're, they're, I would say, you know, more of a wine, red wine, full body, has, um, I would say in Hebrew, more nachrechut. Um, so that's, that's the Nachla Yomok.

Presence. I would say presence. Okay. Yes. Cool.

Uh, and these are aged, uh, also the first series, the Midbar, is aged for 12 months, the red wine. These are aged for 14 months.

Aged on oak?

Aged on oak. Oh, rosé and the white are 2024, so these are not aged in barrels at all.

Okay. Um, but the GSM is.

The GSM is aged for 12 months.

Yep.

The Nachla Ya'bok is aged for 14 months.

Okay.

The next one is these two. I have something called Betzel. So a series of— the name Betzel is a little bit deeper because you don't have it. You're not going to find a name Betzel today in the Gilead region.

Yeah.

Because it doesn't— I mean, it's an ancient name. It's brought down in Sefer Bamidbar as Betzal Bamidbar. It was in Eer Miklat. So it was an Eer Levim that they went to.

It was appropriate with the Daf Yomi. We just went through all of the Eer Miklat.

So you had Betzal Bamidbar. So Betzal is, I looked it up basically where it's located. More to the right, it's on top of the Dead Sea. Like Nachli Abok is all the way up north, I would say the furthest part of Gilad. So Betzer is more on the south side of Gilad region.

Okay.

So that's another name I took from Gilad. The next wine is something out of the box. If you look at the label, it's also totally different. Yeah, I, I made a wine over here, and usually I make a wine— all, all these wines are 20— I mean, this is 2023, this is 2021, and I'm coming out with my '23s very soon. Yes, because they're— the, the Betzer is aged for 18, 18 months in a barrel. Okay, so I still have the 2023, it's still in the barrel. I'm just— I'm about to bottle it.

'22, you didn't do it all?

'22, I didn't make one.

Okay.

So the Heritage was a wine that I made, and I wouldn't say it didn't come out good, but after I aged it, I— the grapes were very good, and I aged it for 2 years in a barrel.

Yeah.

And after tasting after 2 years, the barrel was just too much, and I couldn't— the value, what that I invested in the wine, I could not sell it for the price I wanted to sell it for.

Okay.

So I continued to age it for another 2 years until I felt it was worth to sell it.

Yeah.

And then I went to a graphic artist and I asked him to just give me something out of the box. Nothing to do with my winery. Something, you know, like on top of everything. Right. So I came up with the name Heritage. So that's it. And it's a blend of Cab and Petit Verdot.

Yeah.

24 months in a barrel. It's not only in a barrel, it's actually in new barrels. So it's a very high investment, and I'm very proud of the product.

So at the— so, so, at the end of all of it, this is almost like the flagship of what you do.

This is my flagship.

This is your flagship.

Okay. I didn't come out with Heritage since '19.

Okay.

Uh, I mean, we went through '20, '21, '22, I didn't make one. '23, I didn't make. 2024, I have enough quality wine that I could come out with another Heritage. Okay, it's, it's all about, it's, it's all about quality. Okay, um, that's what it's about.

So that's why you weren't happy with it before?

I wasn't happy with it not because it was not a good wine. I was not, wasn't happy with it because the quality was so high, and I could tell by the grape when I'm going, what type of wine I'm going to get. Over here, I know I'm going to get a 300 shekel bottle of wine, right? After 2 years in the bottle, it tastes to me like a 100-shekel bottle of wine.

Okay.

And that was my problem.

So was it approachable after 2 years in the barrel?

After 2 years, it was— I can't really explain in words what it was. It's hard to explain. I don't know what it was. It was just the flavors were too mellow.

Okay.

Um, the barrel took over. It was very, very woody and you couldn't taste the fruit.

And then 2 years more—

2 years more in the bottle changed the form of the wine to a whole different world.

So I've heard that in the barrel as well. I've heard that in the barrel as well, that if you even— if you leave it in the barrel, give it more, it ends up becoming less. It ends up flipping that. Uh, yeah.

So the truth— the truth is, I mean, I brought a winemaker after a year that was in the barrel because it was new barrels, the whole thing. Usually I don't do— in all these series, I don't do everything new barrels. I do a third of new barrels, the rest of used ones. That's not even, you know, it's a normal thing. Now, this was a very high investment, and I put 24 new barrels, and I brought a winemaker and I told them the wine tastes like wood. And there's such a thing, you know, the Israeli, it's like, "Tamena garyah," like a carpenter. Like, too much. Like, why, why to do that? And I was like, "It tastes like wood." And he's like, "It's going to calm down. Put it for another year, it's going to calm down even more." And it didn't make sense.

I know, but it does.

But it does.

It's crazy.

But it took another 2 years.

So it wasn't in the bottle, it was actually in the barrel you left it for 4 years.

No. No, I bottled it after 2 years.

Okay.

After 2 years, I decided it's going to bottling. After the bottling, I wait a month, 2 months, bottling shock, and then I see the wine is not proving itself and it's just not worth it itself.

So you just left it?

So I just left it.

Cool.

I kept it in storage and it took me a long time to, you know, come out with a name, label, and the whole thing. Now it also has a nice box. So it took, it took Besides the time that I had to wait, it took 2 years and then another couple of months, and baruch hashem, now it's out on the market.

So you feel very happy about this one?

Yes, I'm happy.

Okay.

I mean, I'm happy with all of them, but it's just—

no, I know, I know, I know, I get it. This is— so what is— tell me a little bit about this one, because it's a Cab, it's a— the Petit Verdot is, is a really an incredible grape as well. So tell me what this blend achieves. What does it, what does it come out like?

So this is, I mean, I'll tell you something, it's sometimes it's the opposite of the wines that I make because I make, um, lighter wines and I would so call it easier to drink.

Yeah.

Um, this is kind of the opposite. This is full body. It's not light. It's, it's super heavy. The, the Petit Verdot is It's strong in here. There's 45, 40% of Petit Verdot. Um, so it's, it's there. And also the 2 years in the barrel, that gave a lot to the, to the wine.

Cool.

So, and, and the main thing is there's 2 vineyards of the Petit Verdot in the camp. They were very special, just very, very special. And I've been buying the same grapes for years after this, and I didn't get the same quality.

Where is— where are they located?

So the Petit Verdot is in Karmel Zimra, and the Cab is in Safsoufa. Okay, so they're both Upper Galil, right there. The Betzer 21 is a straight Petit Verdot. It's 100% Petit Verdot. Um, it's also full body because it's, you know, it's a full— it's a straight Petit Verdot, and it's the same vineyard also. But it's—

I would say it's not like the Petit Verdot that went into this.

That was a better quality.

Okay.

So I, I mean, I decided to go on a straight Petit Verdot over here, but the quality, um, over here was a drop higher.

Very cool. How did you get here? What, you know, what, what's the origin story? Because a number of the people who listen to my podcast— I guess the majority of people listen to the podcast come from America. And, um, and they are from the US, and they are— there's a whole bunch of people who are wannabe winemakers. They would love to come to Israel especially and make wine. Um, tell me a little bit about how— how— what drove you? How did you get here, and how did you start making wine?

Okay, so I was born and raised in Eretz Israel. Cool. Start with that. My parents made aliyah, and I got into the wine through my father, actually. My father makes wine up to today.

Okay.

He started in the '70s. So he started, and the idea of just, you know, having wine as something was missing in the world. And he never opened up a winery. He just made his own wine.

Okay.

And I was helping him make the wine for a couple of years. At a certain point, I decided I'm going to open up my own winery. I mean, it took me a lot of time because I went to study therapy. I went to do a lot of other things before I decided to become a winemaker. It was not my first thing to go to. Okay. And also, when I went to study the wine, so I realized it's a tough business. It's just hard to make money out of it. It's agriculture. It's basically I'm taking an agriculture fruit and turning it into another agriculture thing and then go sell it. So that's the hard part about it. The fun part about it is I love making wine. I love drinking wine. And also the idea of just seeing the form of taking a grape and turning it into something much higher. So that's very special. And the whole— today I don't do so much about the lab because I send it out to outside labs, but just the whole thing of the physics of the lab is very, very interesting. It's fascinating. So that, that draw me into it.

Did you have a specific vision in founding the winery that, you know, a vision as to where you wanted to go with it, or Yes, I would say it, um, because I have all different types of wines over here.

So my vision when I went to school, and also my vision making wine, was always going on the lighter side. That means less soaking, less alcohol, making a lighter wine that's just fun to drink and not, not always has to fit with food, right? Just as itself. I like drinking wine. I don't have to fit the wine with a piece of meat or a piece of cheese. It doesn't— I don't have to down the wine. I have to enjoy just drinking the wine itself. My wines are less acidic, or I would call it on the higher side of the, the higher side of, uh, yes, yeah, the fruitiness. Um, the thing is with sales, it's sometimes it's opposite. So I do have the two types. I have to give the clientele both, the whole world basically. So let's say the GSM is more the wine that I would go to, more than the Heritage, that they're triple the price. The Heritage is triple the price. I would go to the GSM because that's me. I like the lighter wines. They're easier, they're fun. I can enjoy it. So I started off my love with light wines. I started off with a straight Morvedre.

Okay.

I opened up the winery over here in 2016, the first vintage I made wine over here. But I mean, like I said, I've been making wine with my father for years, I think since '03. So I was working with— basically back then we had one farmer we would get all our grapes from. It was a guy in Moshe Avmatá, and he— I used to sit with him a lot, and he would always talk about making light wines, you know, picking the grapes early and before getting all these fun— you know, not waiting too long on the tree, picking it early and making a nice light wine out of it. And a lot of my focus was on the Petit— on the Mourvèdre. I actually made Mourvèdre for a couple years, straight Mourvèdre for a couple years straight, and sales were hard. So I stopped.

People are coming around to the varietals now.

Today it's coming back.

Yeah, in a certain way.

So I, I did make a Morved, and I decided it's going to be easier for me to sell it on the name of GSM, right, more than a straight Morved. Um, maybe one day I'll come back to it. That's the, that's the thing. I mean, my cap still has the highest demand, right?

Yeah, but that's people. So it just is. That's what they are. They do that.

So that's what I'm saying. I have to have Cab on my list, and that's part of it. And I actually have it on the lower series also because I want to have the Cab so people could, people could buy it. But it's not my one to— I mean, it's not— I like Cab, but it's not my first go-to.

So you've gotten a lot of, um, incredible feedback about your Petit Verdot. That's been something that's, uh, that's been You get a lot of acclaim from what I've seen. How did you pick the amount of aging? Because Petit Verdot is a uniquely kind of powerful grape.

I taste the wines, I would say, once in 4 or 5 months throughout the barrels.

Yeah.

And then I decide— I start deciding— then I start deciding which wine is going to what series. I mean, Obviously, when I get the grapes, I already know what series I'm making, so I know where the grapes are going to. But if, let's say, I would have a Petit Verdot, I have someone that goes to the Nacha Yabok, that's one series, that's a lower series, and it's a blend. And I have the Petit Verdot that's a straight Petit Verdot, so that obviously has to go to the higher series, and it has to be very, very high quality because it's just a straight, just straight Petit Verdot. So that I do after a couple of months of sitting in the barrel. I do a tasting and I rate the barrels. I did, let's say, the past vintage, I got 3 different Petit Verdot. So I go back and say, from the grapes, I know which ones are my professional ones. I know which ones are the higher quality ones, and those automatically are going to go to the higher quality wines. But after a couple months in the barrel, you could start tasting a difference, and sometimes there's surprises.

So on those surprises, tell me about one unconventional decision you made in the cellar that really surprised you.

That's a good question.

Well, I would even say maybe this decision here, which is conventional in Rioja, But the idea of getting your wine and saying it is not ready for release and leaving it 2 years in a bottle before releasing it, that is unconventional for Israel a lot of times.

Yes.

Right.

It is really unconventional.

But there are other places where it is dictated by the appellation.

Right. But this was a financial decision because I just could not sell it for 100 shekels. I knew the price is going to be much higher if I would age it.

Baruch Hashem. Do you rack the wines out of the barrels?

Uh, it depends on the year.

Okay.

It depends. Yes, I do.

Okay.

I, uh, after 6 months or after 8 months, I taste the barrels.

Yeah.

And then I create the blends.

Okay.

So that means I'm racking it, right?

Okay.

Um, it usually happens this time of year.

Are any of the wines that you manufacture, that you produce— manufacture— that you produce, um, are any of those wines you feel like they're underappreciated, that you, that you feel like this is really a special wine?

Um, no, I think it's interesting where you— it's interesting because I'm the one who decides the price of the wine, right? And when you get into pricing, so that's basically, it's appreciation, right? So there's a lot of things behind it. It's, I want the market to have a cheaper wine, I want that market to have an expensive one. There's a lot of things behind it, but there's also a lot of appreciation. And even in a 100 shekel bottle, I would expect it to have less appreciation, and it's getting more appreciation than what I would expect.

Baruch Hashem.

So we're on the opposite side.

Okay. In going through the wines, what's the volume of wines that you produce? Because it looks like you're producing a lot more than I thought you were.

So, okay, so I'm a small winery. Yeah, I mean, I, uh, I just grew. I started off with 10,000 bottles.

Yeah, uh, that's a good level to be honest for a small winery. 10,000 bottles is actually pretty reasonable.

10,000 bottles is reasonable if I would sell all the wine out of the winery, right? Um, I sell also to the US and also in Israel through distributors. So I have to grow. Right now I'm holding by almost 20,000. That's why there's nowhere to move in here, right? And hopefully we're going to grow. That's, uh, I'm, I'm, my head, my head is going towards the growth. That's where we're going to.

So in the next 5 years, what's the plan? To build a bigger winery?

The next 5 years we're going to have Bezrat Hashem a bigger winery.

Yeah.

And hopefully we're going to hold by 50,000 bottles and a beautiful visiting center.

Please God. I love this location though, I'm just telling you.

I—

to look out over the mountains and down into, uh, down across towards Jordan into the, um, right into the Jordan Valley is just awesome from here.

You know that you can, you can see my house from here, right? I'm not even kidding. Like when you say, oh, I could see my house from there, when you go out to the street here, you walk, look across the Kelt you know, the Wadi Kelt. Yeah, you can actually see alone where I live.

Love.

So I planted a vineyard over here. That's also part of the next vision of the winery.

Yeah.

Um, it's not just having the winery, it's having your own vineyards. Uh, just, you know, it's also the fruit, also the produce of what that I'm getting is I'll have a little bit more control. And it's another thing is, is more the tourist is bringing, bringing people and having the experience of not just the winery, it's also the agriculture, bringing them out to see the vineyards, see the trees throughout the year. It's very interesting.

When did you move here?

12 years ago.

Wow, it must have been all alone.

Uh, 12 years ago there were 25 families over here. Okay, right now we're 100 families.

Uh, yeah, but they've built all of it A dome.

Right. It developed in the past 10 years like crazy.

It changed.

The value of the property was nothing. We had no paved roads. I'm saying I went through 2 or 3 cars that, you know, just driving on these dirt roads, it just kills the car. We had no mikvah, we had no playground. My older kids, they went through childhood without playing in a playground. Nothing.

You live in a playground. You live in the mountains.

Yes, but sometimes, you know, the small things. My wife does yoga, and so, you know, these small things that kids, you know, to hang on a ladder, it's important. Today we have it, Baruch Hashem.

Falling from a ladder is important too.

Falling from a ladder.

Yeah.

These small things.

So one of the things that you've built your reputation on is like really very high quality, hands-on. So one of the things, one of the responsibilities with scaling is to keep that hands-on, right?

So I would go— I would say that basically good wine comes from good grapes. Yeah. And my job is basically to make sure I'm getting good grapes every single year. I do try to get the same vineyards that I work with. That's how I know I'm getting my same grapes and also the same taste more so-called same area of taste, same idea of wine. So I do have already, for a couple years, I've been working with the same vineyards, and I know, I know what I'm getting. And that's the point. The point is to continue with quality or focus on quality as much as possible.

So in your mind, wine is made in the vineyard, or wine is made in the, in the winery?

It's a very good question, but basically wine is made in the winery.

Okay.

Um, I help some people make wine, and that means that they're getting my same quality grapes, and I can't drink their wine. So the answer is wine is made in the winery. The winemaker's job is not to ruin the good grapes. So there's a lot of people that just ruin it, right? Um, but the process of making the wine is obviously It's a job.

Very cool. Let's taste some. Can we taste? Sure. What would, what would you suggest we taste first?

I'll ask Yitzchak because he did taste the wines, and I'll ask him what he thinks.

I would say, first of all, I mean, the GSM is a must, um, and the rosé was—

Did you taste the Shemin?

Yes. Okay, um, between that and the rosé, I prefer the rosé.

Okay.

But, you know, all three were very good, and the GSM I found was like you said, you know, people— you expect one thing and people are blown away by it.

So it's, uh, I, I definitely underestimated the GSM, um, not so cold, and up to a stage that I didn't make it again. Okay. That means I passed the vin— I basically, if it's aged for 12 months in a bottle, so from making the wine until getting it into the bottle, we're talking about 15, 16 months. That means I passed the 2024 vintage and I decided I'm not making the GSM because I was not— it was underestimated.

Okay, and now when you're tasting it, now we're—

now when I'm tasting it, there's going to be a 2025.

Hopefully it'll even come out better. This is the first GSM, so Wow. We'll focus on it even higher.

Wow. Okay. I'd love to try it. I'd love to try it.

Okay, so we got some cheeses.

Okay.

It might work a little bit, you know, to— even though the GSM, most of my wines don't need food, but it goes.

Have you— you haven't seen the vineyard yet, right?

No.

I think, Chaim, if you have time for that, or if not, I can show them as well.

Yeah, we should go out to the vineyard.

It's a vineyard with the most beautiful view I've seen. And then, oh, I checked out, after I left last time, I went to check out the other, the Golani thing. There's a beautiful, um, andalta, like a memorial that they made for, uh, the 41 soldiers for the 13, right? Yeah, for the 13th Battalion, 13th Battalion of Golani. Absolutely beautiful for those who were killed during, uh, Iron Swords.

Wow.

Right next to your vineyard.

Okay, so we're trying now the GSM.

This is the GSM, yes. You could see the colors.

Yeah. And I can smell it too.

Okay.

L'chaim tovim, mishamot. That's really lovely.

I find it's like incredibly smooth. We have that tart cherry and even a little bit of like something herbaceous, like a little bit of green.

Yeah.

But it's just nice.

The thing that's crazy with it is the finish. The finish is just really, really lovely. I think you spot on picked the flavors coming off of it.

I think what?

No, he was describing it with the cherry and the green herbaceousness as well. A little bit of greenness to it. Yeah.

Was one of them— was one of the varieties harvested earlier?

I think the Syrah.

It would make sense as well.

Yeah.

You're also getting on the nose a little bit of that Syrah, like the pepper, even though you said it's a very small amount of Syrah in here.

Yeah, but—

yeah, but it's, it's like 17%. Oh, okay, okay.

It's not like 3?

No.

Okay, no, it's definitely there.

It's lovely. Wow.

On the Hebrew label, I didn't write the amounts. On English label, I had to write the amounts.

How do you sell? Who do you sell through in the United States?

Emerald.

Okay.

Ari.

Okay. Wow. So where is it available in the US? Across the whole US, or mainly in the New York metropolitan area?

Mostly in the tri-state area.

Okay. But guess who, guess who just got it?

Who?

Our buddy Elk.

Oh really?

Oh yeah.

Okay.

I didn't know.

I'm like, just so you know, you've just hit South Florida.

Yeah.

And, uh, hopefully make a splash, right?

So I think, I, I mean, I think I think most of it is still sold in the tri-state area, but they're working on getting out there.

So the reason, the reason I ended up here is because Elk texted me and said, hey, listen, I had— I ordered his wines, I ordered Chaim's wines, and I had, you know, these two. I tasted these, the two heavier reds, the Nachalyabok reds, I think, I believe it was. And he said, but I ordered all of them, but I haven't tasted the Midbar series. Do me a favor, can you drive out there, taste them, and let me know? Yeah, but you know, you'll find that anyways. He goes, I need the peace of mind.

Yeah.

So I realized it was close to my home and I let him know, you know, two thumbs up and you're good to go.

What else should we try? Petit Verdot.

I was going to say, you're a Petit Verdot guy.

Yeah. Can we try it?

I would say either the 100% or even the Nachal Abouk has 33% Petit Verdot. It's actually, it's 34, 33, 33.

Okay. So what's the combination?

It's, well, this one is Cab Merlot, Petit Verdot. Okay, really at a third, third, third. And then the Betser is 100% Petit Verdot. I would say one of those two, honestly. Or even here, Syrah, Petit Verdot.

So we're moving up to the next wine.

Yes, could we?

Sure. Um, taste the Heritage last, that's why. Okay, so the blend, it's still on the— I mean, it's a Bordeaux blend, yeah, but it's not a very— I wouldn't call it a very full-bodied wine. It's somewhere, um, it's also a lighter one. It's— all my wines are on the lighter side. I mean, even the, even the straight Petit Verdot, because I don't, I don't soak the grapes for too long. That's, that's the thing. So don't expect from it to be— I mean, it's way— it's red wine. It's not a GSM.

Okay.

But it's not a— you're not going to have a heavy Petit Verdot taste. So we're going for this?

The blend?

Let's try it. Let's try it.

I found it very interesting though that it's really like a third of the wine.

Right.

It's not like mainly Cab and Merlot with a little bit. It's Third, third, third, third, third.

It's fascinating.

So over here, automatically the smell is already more fruity. You have a much full-bodied smell, but it's already deeper. Yeah, deeper smells. But I had this on Shabbos, it was very light.

By the way, I had your GSM on Shabbos. It was very much, uh, very well accepted. You're right, it's not what you would expect. You'd expect something, you know, especially when you see the cab, more tannin and heavy, and this is just— it's nice, it's fun and gentle.

I'm making this blend, I would say since 2018, same blend, and they're just amazing. I mean, I love it.

Definitely follows what you were saying, you know, your vision and your preferred style of wine drinking, and then by extension winemaking, right?

That's what it— that's, that's, uh, this, this represents the Gilad, um, absolutely philosophy.

Yeah, philosophy.

There you go.

Yeah, very cool.

Yeah, delicious.

It is.

It's delicious as well.

I know it's delicious, that I know. It doesn't fit everybody's taste buds because it's, it's some— like, like you were saying, like you see a Cab, you're like, you expect it to be like the super full tannins and right round and this whole thing is like, it's not not kicking you. So it's friendly, approachable. Totally approachable. Definitely approachable.

Okay, Simon, if I learned anything about tasting wine from, you know, your story with the, uh, with the orange wines— yeah, you can't, you can't approach a wine with a defined category in your head because it's— it just might not fit, and then you'll think it's not as good, right? And so just, you know, approach a wine as it is. It's sometimes its own category.

And yeah, 100% agree. I really agree.

So that was the thing when I started selling wine, people— I would tell people, you have to taste— can't approach my wine with expectations because you don't know the wine.

Mhm.

But then they approach it and they're like, it's not my style. So I was like, okay, so that's, that's what it is. If you're looking for a full body wine this is not the style you're looking for.

It's a little— it's a little sad that we get caught up in these, uh, in these boxes that we create in our minds and don't open up to appreciate, um, something a little bit new and different. Flom came out with their White Label because of that. He was tired of people telling him that no, they won't, they're not drinking the wine, they won't like it. What do you mean you won't like it? I read the label, I don't need to, I won't like it. And he said, do me a favor, don't read the label, just taste the wine.

Exactly.

And it was like, it was a, you know, a big deal.

I was saying it drives me crazy, you know, from the industry. Sometimes I'm thinking like, this wine's good and that wine's good, why do you need so many wines and so many wineries? You know, if it was all blind, 'Yeah, I need a wine with my steak. I'll get you— it'll pair, it'll be fine.' But then suddenly we want there to be a Yekhev Gilad, and we want there to be a Yekhev Agour, and we want there to be a, you know, Castel winery, and all these wineries specifically because of their story. I think it adds so much to it. So I guess I'm on the fence there with the blind and—

Yeah, no, it's interesting. I agree that a blind tasting— you should be able to do a blind tasting and just come up with what you think is the best wine.

But, but there's something to be said about sitting down and knowing what you're drinking and enjoying it with friends.

I've just found that I guess I have a bias that's built in, though I try very hard to keep my, um, my mind a little bit open, or a lot open. So that's, that's also a lovely one.

It's easy in this case.

Yeah.

That's the good one.

So now we're going to try the Heritage.

Now we're going to try the Heritage, just when I put wax on.

The Heritage.

I, uh, the stamps also over here.

On that, but also on the— that you showed me with the, uh—

I have a stamp. See this stamp on the wax?

Yeah.

And I have a stamp also for my bags. Um, I have this cardboard bag, like paper cardboard bag.

A bag?

Yeah, paper bag.

Okay. Yeah.

So instead, I buy it blank and then I put my stamp on it, right? So that gives—

that logo lends itself, right? A stamp, a raw stamp, right?

So in this one, I also put, um, I would say cork, a real cork, the Chardonnay.

Yeah, really?

Um, wow. The truth is, I'm dis— I'm— I wouldn't say I'm disappointed, but I, I'm happy I work with these corks.

What's your usual cork?

This is, uh, it's called Vink. It's, it's a compressed cork, uh, very, very high quality. You could look at it. Um, it just— it could last for— I mean, they have free different ones that different years, but I'm saying it could sit in the bottle for 5 to 10 years and it looks good. Um, yeah, the whole corks are somehow— it's on a scale, not all of them are good. Um, these were very expensive, these corks.

Uh, I—

because, because I knew it's an expensive bottle, I had to invest. Um, it's It's part of the game.

Yep, absolutely.

So it's part of the game. Someone opens up a bottle, um, you have the black color over here, right? It's like it, it talks to you in a certain way. So yes, every bottle of wine I open, I would look at the cork and even smell the cork. Yeah. So this, um, that's why also I keep them and, and laying down to have it damp and to have the wine on the cork. It does something to it. It represents something. So in a certain way it did a job, but on the other hand, I don't, I don't really believe in it. It's like—

so this is super, super deep.

You can see the difference, like two different worlds.

Heavier but like silky kind of mouth feel, like it fills, it fills your mouth.

Yeah, the tannins are very strongly there. So this has been—

this is a 2019. It's 24 months in a barrel.

Yep.

24 months in a bottle, and now it's out for sale.

So it took—

I mean, it's already 5 years from the harvest.

Right. Wow.

And it still has a way to go.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, absolutely.

There's a long way to go. Before Pesach, I had a lot of sales with this, and I told a couple of stores that I didn't make it— I didn't repeat the winemaking again because I didn't have such quality wine. So they said they're gonna put away.

It's like, bring it out in a few years.

Yeah, so soon I'm gonna run out of the wine and some stores are gonna sell out. Stores are gonna—

That happens. That's part of life.

I love when that happens, when you have like a winemaker tasting and somebody pulls out a bottle that he hasn't seen in years because his winery ran out and the stores ran out. And you've been cellaring it. It's like, wow, I can't believe it's still in there. To blow the winemaker's mind with his own wine that he hasn't seen in years is always a very special experience.

Right.

That's what I typically do.

Yeah, exactly.

I have wines that some of the wineries don't have anymore, and they've gotten better, so it's really— I'm thankful.

Right. Oh, people ask me all the time why I don't age wines, and my answer is it's not my business.

Your business is to make wine and sell it, right?

And, and people like, they say it's going to be much better, the value is going to go up. I said, perfect.

So that's exactly why you buy it and put it away.

If you think so, so buy it and put it away, because it's not my business. So I mean, I do keep just for storage, you know, but not the amounts I have are nothing.

Would you— I wonder what your response would be like if you saw your wines going again later, like a secondhand market, right? Like in 10 years, you've sold this this year, next year, God willing, you're done with it. 10 years, you see people start selling this as like a very high value.

I'll be very happy.

Phil?

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it proved itself. That means that it made it. First thing is, my name is going in front of me. It's expensive.

Your heritage.

I tell people expensive wines is not about quality. It's about name. And I mean, this is an expensive bottle of wine. So there's one thing is I created a name so people can trust me that I'm making good wines. For the past 10 years, baruch Hashem, I could say, okay, I came out with an expensive bottle of wine. Second thing is, let's see it continue in that way, and let's see, let's see where it's going to be holding. Now, if somebody's going to take this bottle 3, 4 years from now and sell it for, I mean, let's say 100% more, so it would make me happy. It means the wine actually stayed. Absolutely, it's holding, you know. But it's not, it's not my business. My business is sell wine. I, I can't, I can't, uh hold on to wine for too long.

Of the wine that you've produced from Gilad, if you had any of those wines— yes, if you had any of those wines, which wine would you pick to open tonight, and who would you open it with?

So we're talking about a series of different wines, and each one has a different flavor. Now Tonight means— tonight means just a regular day in the middle of the week.

Yep.

Opening up a bottle of wine. So I would always go on the lighter side.

Okay.

Um, because it's just— it's easier to drink, it's fun. And we're talking about sitting down with a friend for dinner, without— even without dinner, just sitting on a bottle of wine, smoking a cigar. I would always go on the lighter side. Um, I wouldn't— I would not go on the rosé and the whites because, like, at nighttime, if we're talking about— yeah, at nighttime. So I would definitely prefer the reds.

Yep.

I would go for GSM.

The GSM. Yeah. And what would you pair with that for food?

So I'll tell you something, I'll tell you something out of the box.

Okay.

I prefer to drink light wines with food than heavy, full-bodied wines with food.

Yeah.

In a certain way, um, You would think that the Heritage would go with a good piece of steak because they're both a lot of flavors and very deep flavors. On the other hand, is I'm blocking the flavors because I'm not getting the full potential of each one because I'm blocking the flavors because they're both full body. If I take a steak and I would drink it with a light wine, in a certain way it's gonna go down much easier.

So you know what I would drink with this? You know what I would eat with this? Here we start. Chocolate chip cookies.

I was going to say dark chocolate.

Chocolate chip cookies.

I was close.

I love chocolate chip cookies with a heavy wine, with a real—

absolutely.

It's just right.

So it's—

that's, that's, you know, you can keep the steak with whatever else, but at the end, when we hit dessert, and if I don't have any wine left over and we've made chocolate chip cookies, I, I actually almost have to open a bottle of wine in order to have dessert.

And ideally like a fruity red.

Yeah, no, yeah, a big bold red. Yeah, because it just goes—

listen, that's good. Dessert wines usually are full body. I mean, they could be sweet, but they're very rich with flavors.

I like those I like those special fruity, um, sweet dessert wines, but they don't go with— they don't go with— they go with certain desserts, but they don't go with, you know, like chocolate chip cookies. And this would— this would do great with it. Unbelievable. We're going to go take a look at the— at the—

we're going to take a look at the vineyard.

The—

the— I can't tell you How thankful I am for coming out here, just because of the breathtaking vista that surrounds this house. It's like unbelievable. You can see into Jordan, you can see down into, uh, towards the Dead Sea. I don't know if you can see the Dead Sea from here.

I didn't see that, but yeah, on a nice day, it depends on the weather. See it, it depends on the weather.

You can actually see down into the, into the valley. It's crazy.

Usually the morning, so the sun shines on the water.

Yes.

So then you can see the water shine back. So it's nice.

What I want to know is how you— the manual labor that you do here. I mean, there's a lot. Do you have— do you bring guys in to help out, you know, at times of work?

So there's different things I do bring. Um, actually crushing the grapes, I have full machinery. I could almost get all the grapes without— the main problem started off with crushing the grapes is always very high pressure because I'm also in the vineyard, I'm there physically, I'm checking the grapes, and I'm dealing with trucks bringing the grapes, and it has to come as quick as possible. And then I have to have a lot of workers to make sure it's in the basement as quick as possible because of— usually it's in the middle of August.

You don't want it to get hot.

I don't want to get hot. So that, that part I took care of. I got machines. I could literally take care— I could get like 5 or 6 tons of grapes with zero pressure. Zero. I, I have a forklift. I have a machine that flips it into the crusher.

Wow.

Um, I have a pump. Everything's upstairs.

I like moving barrels down here, so I do everything upstairs.

Now I have a long pipe that comes down here And these vats, they fill up. The barrels have to get out of here. These barrels are here, they're not supposed to be in here. This room is made for winemaking, not wine aging. My next process is I'm bottling, I'm labeling all these bottles, and I'm moving the barrels to here. This has to happen before the summer. And then we'll get like a nice glass, uh, I'll put it in the glass, whatever. Bottles, they gotta get out of here.

Yeah, he can. Yeah.

So, and then the only thing is I have to have one person—

I was going to ask you, where do you put the vat?

The vats are all inside each other. They're all here.

They're all inside each other.

So your pipe comes down from here with the grape juice.

I have a hole in the wall.

It'll go straight into the vats.

It goes straight into the vats.

But the vats have to be not inside each other. They have to be out.

That's what I'm saying. That's why I have— right now I have barrels in the room.

You're answering a question I had because I looked around and I said, I see the barrels and I see the bottles and I see how you could do it, but how in the world— where are you fermenting this stuff?

So there's—

when I come to the, to the fermenting process, yeah, all those barrels have to be gone. And that—

the vats I have, like, there's 1,000 liters and 700 liters, and so they, they tie each other. And, and the whole room It's literally, you can't walk into the room.

Yeah.

They're all like—

I was wondering where—

I leave a small path.

I thought there was another room that I haven't seen because I was wondering that exactly. I was sitting, I was looking around, how in the world do you ferment anything? Thank you.

Thanks for coming.

Thank you for being on the Kosher Terroir. And really, I'm so happy because you're one of the people I really wanted to sit down and talk to.

This is Simon Jacob again, your host of today's episode of The Kosher Teruah. I have a personal request. No matter where you are or where you live, please take a moment to pray for our soldiers' safety and the safe and rapid return of our hostages. Please subscribe via your podcast provider to be informed of our new episodes as they are released.

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