Nunzio Castaldo's Recommendations for M&M's Wine Consumers.

Nunja, you know our entire portfolio. Let's say, uh, you were the professional speaker on behalf of M&M. What— and, uh, you know, somebody calls up Simon and says, Simon, I want— I love the me— I love the podcast, I want to try one of the wines. So what would you recommend from all the different regions, let's say maybe somebody to start and somebody let's say who has a little experience. We're not talking about the super experienced like Simon or myself, but let's say some— an entry-level guy comes in and says, Simon, what did Nunzio say for an entry-level guy to try to get into the wine from my portfolio, let's assume. And let's say somebody who wants to go a little further, what— which wines would you recommend?

As the entry level, uh, for red— I mean, for white— would be the Arneise from Pescaglia. And from, from red, I would say still now the Montepulciano from Valeriale. I like that kind of vibrancy. I like that kind of a spice that, you know, that is the same on the red. I'm— and I'm a little bit biased because I suggest the wines that, you know, that they're very, very, very close to the conventional wines. Okay, which most of your book is like that. That's why I like it, you know. So, um, as an entry level, I like those two because I, I believe that they're very, um, um, I would say fedele, you know, like not true, not true to the kosher. I mean the Don Costa side. As, uh, as the upper one, I like the ones that, you know, that, um, Alessandro Schellai is making, you know, for you. I think that, you know, the guy's, you know, he's doing a great job. So especially point to this, especially the Rocca di Foscinella. I think that, you know, I, I believe that, you know, that is the pinnacle of, uh, that conjunction, you know, between, uh, your team in Italy, you as a vision, and Alessandro that understood, you know, after few discussion that I had also with him, but he's a very intelligent guy, so he didn't need me, but he understood what was your final points, the destination, and then why. And I believe that, you know, that he surpassed all my expectations. So let's say that, you know, that also the Brunello from Tassi I mean, I'm very, very, very, very, very impressed about that.

I mean, yeah, I would have saved that. I would have saved that for the wine geeks like us. I mean, that's the highest rated. It's the highest rated kosher wine ever given by Parker is ours.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, listen, uh, I was— that's a different story. But, you know, anyway, I think that, you know, that was, uh, was, uh, you know, really, you know, A testimony that quality is not compromised with the function of intervening with the different hats. And that's what you have to believe and bring it on.

So, Sami, let me just, let me, you know, people don't realize that Nunzio just gave you literally a 1,000-page book on, on, on, on what we've done. I mean, he, he says it in, in code words, so to speak.

What do you mean? No, you, you, you, you.

Yeah, I don't know how much No, no, no, it's you, it's you.

Because I know that, I mean, I mean, beside the vision that, yeah, and listen, we are not here to, you know, to violin each other, but yeah, we are here to make sure that whoever read or sees your podcast or read, I mean, understands, you know, through your voice, through your platform, which, you know, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's impressive what you do. They have to understand that, you know, there is a, a, a, a, there is not a business model here. That's why I said this is a mission that is greater than everything else. Look what Rafa has behind, how many books. I've been in his house, I mean, it's a temple of studying, okay? This gentleman, you know, only has to study for his own religion purposes, which I respect very much, not only for his professional purposes, but He has time to dedicate it to this great crusade because drinking quality wines in these very conservative communities, which I learned more through him and through this experience of my life, it's not the easiest things to do. And I believe that, you know, that I told him, I tell him all the time, he has to take a little bit more ownership of that, you know, uh, practice. Leave others to do the mechanical stuff, and him, he has to be a little bit more involved. I know endless times, you know, that, you know, that he spends, you know, you know, money, energy, and time away from his family to educate people, and that is the most beautiful thing. So yeah, but he's also a hands-on person. Yeah, he's a slightly obsessive compulsive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we cannot talk so freely in front of him about— let's do it, let's do it, let's do it.

Yeah, but I mean, in the summary there, you know, I mean, we have great wines. Simon, you know, you're talking about a beautiful white entry level You know, entry level for our price market. You know, Nuunjo's price market and ours are totally different because of the cost of the rabbinical supervision. But a Pescaia harness can be matched up against anybody's sencer in the kosher sencer market. And I have two sensors. I think it's just a beautiful northwest region of, you know, Piemonte up north. And it's an excellent— we have a mevuushal and non-mevuushal, right? So for the purists and the non-purists. But that's a great— and what he spoke about, Vale Reale, is a Montepulciano d'Abruzzo, which is authentic. It's an authentic entry-level, you're not going to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars, like even what we— like our Brunello, but it's a tremendous amount of value in that money. San Isidro is a new ripening vineyard, entry-level, Beautiful bottle, short timing.

I consider them a hearty wine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And those are great recommendations for the people who are going into the second chapter, you know, uh, Rocca del Francinello. By the way, Simon, that's an excellent other idea. I said Armando Fumanelli, but not to take away from Alessandro Cellai. He's the king— he's the king of Tuscany at this point. I mean, The Italian media writes of him as he's the one of the top Tuscan winemakers. Also a lot of history. And guess what? With Nunzio's help, we made some of the top— Zaki's put, just so you understand, Zaki's put— Zaki's from California, very famous— put Sodi di San Nicolò, which is the top Castellare Sangiovese-based wine. It has to be labeled IGT because it doesn't stick to the norm values. Sangiovese, which is the mother, the father clone. I think we mentioned this one. It got number one wine the year, and the same year we made it. 2019 was the first year we made it. We made that kosher. Now he talked about Rocca di Francinello. The number one selling Super Tuscan was Le Suga. That was ours. We making the higher level, and we made Baffanero, all due to Nunzio's help. These are talking about Super Tuscans. There's Baffanero, which will be released soon. I'm not sure when, but it's an Italian Merlot aged, um, the whole run, um, Simon, is 5,000 bottles, the entire production. Um, and we made the 300 for the first year because that's all he would let me, and, and now that we got used to each other, 600. Now this is a great guy to also to get on your podcast because he He just, he speaks English very well. By the way, once again, Nunzio introduced me to him, which is why he gets a lot of them. But like he said, for the guys who are coming into the second level, Super Tuscan is the way to go. Chianti is the way to go because it's, you know, you need to be able to go anywhere you go in the world and they're going to ask you about Italian wine. You got to know Chianti. You need to know the Chianti region. You don't need to know what it tastes like. You have to know why it tastes different than, um, and then a French Bordeaux. I'm a crazy Francophile. Me and you've drank, you know, 2000 LeoVille, we've drank Pop Clements in the new era, we've drank Malartic 2005, and these aren't even my wines, right? I don't import them, but we've made Smith Lafitte, Lafite Rocher, I mean, and these are different profile. It doesn't sit to the same norm. Doesn't mean that, you know, the problem with I think in our people, and I think Nunzio is just appreciating this, and Simon, you've spoken to thousands of winemakers. The problem, which is what made me, is our palate was driven to a certain type, over-oaked, very heavy wine, 16% volume, alcohol volume, you know, that's how our wine was pushed us in. And I think it's now time to separate, you know, you have to separate the boys from the men, so to speak. That is, we need to see what elegance is, we need to know what cherry and balsamic, which you find in Sangiovese-based wines, Chianti, are different than the big blackberry jammy, you know, heavy wines. Not saying they're not good, what I'm saying is they're different. Very different, yes. And I'll tell you this, and you ask me, Simon, what's the biggest thing I find? And I'll tell you, Nunzio, this is something we've touched on. I give them a Brunello blindly, you know. My Brunello Riserva got almost 100 points by Parker. The only reason I didn't mention it was because it was not blind. Our original 2016 Franci Tassi wine was blind tasting with the non-kosher, got 96 points, which is the highest Parker ever gave to any kosher wine, right? You give them a Brunello, it's sexy, it's sultry, it's seductive, it's not big, bold, jammy. It's, it's, you know, it's the maestro and the conducting. It's not It's a violin, it's not the drums. And so people don't appreciate what that nuance in that wine is. You want an elegant wine. Yeah, you're not— maybe you won't eat it with, you know, braised short ribs. You need something a little bit more gentler on when you pair it. But a Brunello, they command the highest respect. LVMH just bought Biondo Santi because it's a huge wine. Those are the same guys who make Château d'Yquem, which is a So turns. So, you know, it's about education. It's about explaining to them it's not the same wine. And a Brunello commands the highest, the highest dollars in the kosher and non-kosher market. And if we don't educate them on it, they'll just think that this is, ah, this is just water. Red water, as one of the Hasidim called me. But I think that it's an education and it's a process. And I will tell you, Simon, Nunzio tried to leave us 10 times. I mean, you don't need me anymore. Every time he says you don't need me more, I doubled down on my contract.

I mean, I'm right. I'll be always here, but you don't need, like, you know, me because you, you know, you reach the level now, you know what I mean?

So it was a great working relation. It's a great working relationship. Uh, now we're, we're great friends. I give it, you know, um, every time I have, uh, Italian, uh an Italian linguistic problem. Some of these winemakers are really rustic. We're making a Barbaresco for a gentleman who doesn't even know how to say hello in English. I need Nunzia to travel to translate everything. But this is the type of wines we want to bring to the market. We want to bring the Barolos, we want to bring the Barbarescos, which are coming. They just, you know, they need time to age. But in terms of what you can find now in the market is what he's saying. You get a Falanghina from Campania, It'll match up against any white wine of anything you have. And by the way, you know how much Burgundy I love? Chardonnays. I mean, we made a Chardonnay from Piskaya because it's on the same altitude as Burgundy, and he was trained there. So that's why I was— that's why I made it. But you know, things open up, and I think that, you know, I think it's a great working relationship, and there's great options now in the Italian kosher market. And that, that's only half my portfolio. And I have a whole French portfolio, but I think the excitement for me is, and it's really thanks to Nunzio, is how to, how to, how to develop this market.