Vineyard to Glass: Tasting Wine with Assaf Paz

Welcome to The Kosher Teruah.

I'm Simon Jacob, your host for this episode from Jerusalem. Before we get started, I ask that wherever you are, please take a moment and pray for the safety of our soldiers and the safe return of all of our hostages. If you joined us for part 1 of our conversation with Asaf Paz at Vitkin Winery, you already know the story behind the wines, the bold varietals, the resilient terroir, and the winemaker who's been redefining Israeli wine for over 2 decades. But now, in part 2, we shift instead from the vineyard to the glass. Of course, I I can't pour you a tasting flight through your headphones, but I promise you this: you'll hear wine the way Asaf sees it. This episode is a masterclass in narrative tasting, where every bottle becomes a character, every sip unlocks a story. Asaf's voice brings flavor to life. From sun-drenched Grenache to brooding Carignan, with descriptions so vivid you'll feel like you're right there beside him, swirling, sniffing, and savoring. If you're driving in your car, please focus on the road ahead. If you're home, please settle in, open your senses, and join us for a unique journey through Vitkin's portfolio, as told by the man who crafted it. This is part 2 of our conversation with Asaf Paweł, and trust me, —It's far too delicious to skip.

Thank you very much for inviting me to come to Vitkin.

So I just called Yossi to bring us some samples. Good. We'll do it.

So we're gonna taste some stuff? Yeah, of course. This potato is amazing.

It's a potato salad. I called it the Russian salad.

I know, it is. But it's really amazing. It's definitely a Russian who made it. Yeah.

This is nice. It's a— this is a tuna salad. And vegetables for the conscience. This is chirchi. You know, it's a Tripoltai dip from squash and I think sweet potatoes and spices. Yep. So what are we tasting? Let's start with— Are you going to keep it secret?

No, no.

This is first, second.

What beautiful color these are.

Yeah, so this, the first trio is very simple. We're going from, from lighter to heavier. So the first one, Pinot Noir, as you can see the color. Wow, light in the color, like sour cherries. Very intense in the nose, very aromatic. It's super intense.

It's just— I could smell this all day.

Pinot Noir is not a variety to plant in Israel. If somebody asks me what to plant, it won't be in my first 20. Really? Yeah, but there are a few terroirs, very, very small, you know, acres, very little acres in Israel that you can plant Pinot Noir and it could give successful and delicious wine. Ours is in Elah Valley near Givat Ishaya. It's a place that have a lot of cool, you know, air coming from the river.

Yeah, exactly.

Not in the river, no, the other way, from the mountain, from the top of the mountain, the cool air goes down. Yeah, goes down. Yeah, so goes down the stream, goes down the river. and, you know, giving this night and day big difference that keeps nice acidity and nice aromas, typical aromas of Pinot Noir that's really hard to achieve in a hot climate like Israel. So I learned how to make Pinot Noir in a few places. First and foremost in Northern California. I say Northern California because it's not in Napa Pinot Noir nor Sonoma. It's a Mendocino, Anderson Valley, very cool climate region, very delicate Pinot Noir. So I always say it's like a lady that doesn't need a lot of makeup. You don't need to overmature it, over— put it too long in the skins, too much new barrel or too long in the barrel and so So don't over it. You need to let the fruit shine. And here the fruit is delicate, but it could be very intense and beautiful. And if you don't overcome it with other exterior factors, you get a lovely Pinot Noir. So I try to— basically, the secret of my winemaking methods here is taking down my ego. Understanding that what they get from the fruit is amazing. Don't touch it. Learn how to preserve it and let it shine, but don't cover it too much. What do you think?

This is so varietally correct as a Pinot. It's just amazing.

You know, I tasted a lot of Pinot. The second place I helped me craft my Pinot approach is Germany. So in Germany, in the last decade, they're making amazing Pinot Noir. Maybe it got a little bit warmer, so it's easier for them to get the maturity, but they have, especially our twin winery in the Pfalz, making some outstanding Pinot Noirs. And everybody is looking to Bourgogne, Burgundy. Yeah. We don't have the terroir of Burgundy, and in Burgundy sometimes they can— they have the classics of Burgundy that you cannot argue with, but sometimes they're captive of the high scores like Bordeaux 20 years ago. And I like to— when I want to see the transparent Pinot and to learn about the variety itself, and not a specific terroir. I want to go to— because absolutely Burgundy have the best terroir for the Pinot Noir in the world. But I think that from the whole planet, it didn't fail only in Burgundy, you know. There are other places too, but it will take time to find them with a lot of hard work like they did in many centuries in Burgundy. What year is this? 2024. This is 2024?

It's so drinkable. This is unbelievable.

Yeah, it's so drinkable. So it's a little bit more than half a year in the— So it's not bottled yet? No, no, it's not bottled yet. It will be bottled before the harvest. That means that it will be around 10 months to max 11 months in the barrel before bottling. And that's how I want it. Now you go to the second wine. I won't tell you the variety, but it's very intriguing. It looks like a cousin of the Pinot Noir. It does. Because first of all, in the color, it's very light and bright and the beautiful red bright color. In the nose, you can feel so much aromatics from strawberries to fresh prunes, you know. Not the jammy ones, the round, the Japanese one. Floral even, you know, sour cherries, very reddish nose. But the floral is outstanding here. And even a little bit gamey, like sausage or something, you know.

You're right.

But unlike the Pinot Noir, the mouthfeel here is slightly different. It's more— especially the after, you know, the aftertaste. Yeah, the finish. Yeah, it's more juicy, more voluptuous, more, you know. Wow.

So this is Grenache Noir. I'm trying to figure out what varietal is it.

So Grenache Noir, you can— it's so flexible. If you take the Grenache of Priorat or old vines Spanish Grenache, even from the Rioja or from some places in South of France, you can find black wines, very intensive, high in alcohol, very jammy, spicy. But if you go to other places, you can find this Grenache, which is lighter but not less intense in the flavors and in the aromas, but gives you a completely different character. I call Grenache Noir the Pinot of the Mediterranean. It's well adapted to the climate. It's perfect. The maturity of this grape is Perfect. You get it in the most amazing pH level. The acidity level are so correct that you don't need to adjust, you don't need to correct anything. You had the most delicious aromas even in lower alcohol potential. So the wines are basically between 13 and 13.5 alcohol, the finished wines. And again, here I keep it in the barrel less than 1 year. Because it doesn't need too much and they keep the quality. Eh, Elihai, chapeau à la potato salad, à la kartoschke. Wow. Wow. Kartoffel. It's really good. Where are you from originally?

Originally, my grandmother is from Turkey. From Turkey?

Okay. I will kruge zelomi Turkey.

Mayonnaise. Yeah. Came after they came to Israel. He did it.

Not— this is a nice adaptation.

It's amazing. It's really good.

And he eats in the best restaurants, so— I eat all over, but Baruch Hashem.

Baruch Hashem.

So, okay, so this is the Grenache Noir.

Yeah. You know, I really want to taste your Pinot from last year.

Okay.

Because I don't remember it. You will. I don't remember smelling or tasting anything like this. This is—

When it's in the barrel, it's much more expressive, and when we bottle it, it's closing, and then little by little it's opening. So if you taste, you know, from kosher In the kosher prism, you can taste the 2015 and 2016 and see what they give today. That's fascinating. This is crazy.

The Grenache is good, but this is crazy exceptional.

This is much more spicy. It's one of the building blocks of the Red Israeli Journey. It's basically Carignan and some Grenache. It needs to get more carignan, more intense carignan. And, oh, wait a minute, maybe this will help. Look at the color. The color is purple. This is much— this is like more the more woody portion because this is not the final blend. It's part, different parts of the blends that we're testing. So now it's more— less drinkable, you know, you feel the tannins. Yeah. You want to know the variety or not yet? Let's see, not yet. Okay. Very aromatic nose. It's have some warm spices, you know, like ginger, anise, minty.

It's funny. Because I know you don't have a Zinfandel, but this is almost like a Zinfandel.

Like the candy, like, yeah. Yeah. I always think of it of crushed berries, you know, we call them in Hebrew, perot yal. Yeah. Yes. This is algaman. Oh, wow. Algaman, but from the north of Israel. From 2024. This is beautifully made Argaman. Yeah. It's like, it's 3 or 4 varieties. Yesterday I spoke with a young sommelier. It's like, he's like a kind of my protégé. Because I know him from the day he started work as a waiter and he was very interested in wine. And he worked for me as well and he's now, he's like starting to be a superstar. In the restaurants of Tel Aviv. And we talked about, we said something about Argaman, not connected to my wines, but in general. I said, he told me this is a variety that needs to be extinct. I said, why? He said, no, because it gives nothing, only blends. I said, okay, you're very young. Never ever say what you said right now. I love you. I appreciate you. This is a big Big no-no. Never talk like that. Even when people ask me what do I think about orange wine, which I don't personally, I don't like, but I never say I don't like, you know, they are horrible. I always say something like I haven't tried yet. Oh, thanks. I haven't tried yet the orange wine that I liked. Because this is the truth. This is how I put it.

You know what you have to do? In order to enjoy orange wine, you have to drink it with like Chinese food. Wow. Crazy Chinese food. Okay. Super spicy, super flavorful. You drink orange wine with that.

Okay.

Your mouth explodes.

Cold or room temperature? All right, right. Room temperature. Room temperature.

Yeah, but it could be cold as well. Okay. But it makes such a difference. It's incredible. Wow.

Okay, I will try it. Okay?

You see, it'll make a huge difference to your appreciation of orange wine. Okay. Wings. Crazy wings that are—

Very, very succulent. Yeah. Very oily. Okay. Okay, I will. But— Talia loves Chinese. We try it. So I told him, you know, I will give you to taste the Argaman that I have in barrels from two different reasons, from two different genes. I told this young sommelier, but never said that, because first of all, this is an Israeli variety, so we need to try to do something with it. Secondly, you haven't tried so much yet. You need to be open.

That Argaman is great. Yeah. Now— It's elegant. You know something? Argaman has a tendency to be like, hit you over the head a little bit.

Because it have an amazing color. It have amazing acidity. I tell you what.

This smells more like an Argaman. Listen.

This is another Argaman, but from different region. Lower land. The other one was from higher altitude.

—But this also is an argaman that's very— very elegant. Elegant and approachable.

And it's like taking a wild beast and taming it. Yeah, taming it. It is, it's definitely.

This is super pleasant. Wow. Super, super pleasant. So these are also 2024s?

Yeah, I think that you asked me about the local indigenous varieties, and I told you that in my opinion, this is something that you can incorporate in the podcast. Right. So I think that our local varieties is an amazing R&D for the future. But you need to give it time. You need to give it 10 years, 15 years, maybe longer. I don't know. Maybe shorter for a while. But in the meanwhile, we have so much things to work on that are already in place that are giving yields like the Carignan and like the Argaman and like other varieties that, you know, Colombard. Colombard, it's an amazing variety. That I think that will show more and more potential through the experiments and the years. We're making amazing wines from the Colombard in the last 25 years, since the first year of Vitkin maybe. And it basically went into a journey, the white journey, and it's the base of the wine journey. The secret maybe of the white journey. We tasted the 2023 Argaman, and now I'm going to give you something else from 2023. This is eclectic. It's not taking from here and there.

So wait a second. Highly mixed. This is the '23? Yeah.

Okay. The first one was 2024. It's crazy.

It's crazy. Whatever you did to produce that, it's amazing. This is also beautiful.

A lot of TLC. Wow. This is so chocolate mint, you know, dark chocolate and mint and blueberries and cherries and some pomegranate. So this is Tanat. And Tanat is so—

I have never tasted a Tanat like this. The Tanats that I've tasted are so— Are so tannic. Tannic and so just harsh. This is like— You can enjoy it.

It's more than enjoy it. It's unbelievable. So Tanat, you know, the region of Tanat in France, Madiran, is the place where they invented the technique of micro-oxygenation. Micro-oxygenation is to imitate a little bit what's happening in the barrel to soften the, the tannic structure of the wine and also to, to stabilize the, the, the color. Because when you have slightly oxidative, very gentle oxidative state, the colors are combining with the tannins, they're making a very stable form of the color that don't drop through time when you do it correctly and you don't over-oxidize the wine. If you don't over-oxidize the wine, you lose everything.

Does this mean you bubble oxygen through it? But very—

you imagine that in the, in the bottom of the tank you have the, the sparger. Yeah. Okay. And the bubbles are so tiny that until the time they're reaching the top of the tank, you don't see them anymore. They are dissolving completely into the liquid. And you do it in very small doses. You're giving, for example, 1 minute of oxidation and then you wait for 1 day or a couple of hours. And everybody— it depends on the volume of the tank. And you do it just to give some oxygen to the compounds and then don't give too much so the wine won't be oxidized.

Aren't people trying to do that sort of thing with amphoras today to get that micro-oxidization?

Yeah, this is one of the rationales of using an amphora. But it depends on the material and the—

I've never tasted a Tanat like this ever. This is also, this is a '23 or '24? '23. '23, so this is—

This is in your mind. It's very memorable. Look at the color, it's just beautiful. This is almost 50-year-old Petit Sirah vines. Really? This is a vintage 2023. Look how intense it is. It's already 18, maybe 20 months in the barrel. So juicy, amazing structure, and yet very soft, almost elegant. And you have this smitty character that you find sometimes in Syrah. It's going to age beautifully. Let's taste some Carignan. Let's taste 3 Carignan wines. Okay. This is— call it Carignan '51 because it's the age of the vines. Wow. Very distinct character.

Mm, nice. This is like the definition of juicy.

Yeah. I wanted to say juicy. Yeah. That's the definition. The definition of juicy. Wow. Could be the name of the wine. Yeah. So you can keep it in the glass. There isn't a— So this is the same, the same, uh, carillon, but from another plot. Completely different. Totally different. Very intense in the color. Very intense in the, like, plummy, you know, more black character.

This tasting, the definition of this tasting is Israeli journey. Wow. Yeah, it really is. It's going.

I'm— I absolutely agree with you. So don't, don't lose those. And the third glass I will give you, we jumping into 2024, so it's a different vintage, but this is the Carignan for 2024.

Yeah, taste it, taste it a little.

Nice. But it's a— this one is— I call it Har, like mountain. It's not mountain, it's a very small mountain, but it's so, you know, gravelly and stony. Yeah, it's a very, very mineral description. Very, very mineral, very stony. I don't know if I have the picture of the terroir.

I can smell the pebbles. It's like crazy. I don't know how, how I can do that.

I— no, it's, it's, it's crazy, you know. Wow. This one, I'm look— I will look for the picture. It's not old vine, it's not too young vine, but they are, I think, 15 years old. But the terroir is so amazing. I'm so looking forward to to get, you know, more fruit out of it.

Wow. That's really not fair that that Pinot tastes like that when it's in the barrel. And then it—

It's all ready to drink, right? It's so perfect.

I also think the best rosés I've ever tasted are the ones coming out of the steel. Yeah, that are cold are just crazy, especially when they've got bubbles, especially when they're not clarified yet.

Yeah, they are raw, you know. Check this out. Wow, look at the terroir, look at the bunches, black and You see the berries, small berries on the shade. It's perfect. Look, you can— and as you said, you feel the minerality. Yeah. Send you this picture. Wow. So this is the Pinot 2023. Okay, you will see that it's The 2024 was a little more open because it was in the barrel and it's always like that, but this shows you a very nice consistency in the profile of the wine. I'm sure that in a blind tasting you will recognize it.

Wait a second. Yeah. Can you give me the '24 again? Do you have any left?

Yes, of course. Maybe it's a little bit warmer now. Okay, so yeah, no. The perception is a little different.

Oh, 24 Pinot is just so—

You will probably want to take a barrel with you home.

Yeah, I know. It's crazy. It's just absolutely a crazy Pinot. It's what people have always told me Pinot can be, and I've, to be honest, I've never really tasted it.

Yeah, because Pinot have a lot of myth. Yeah, lot of history. And, and sometimes you take some until you taste. So are you ready? I'm ready. Wow, we haven't tasted any white, by the way. I know, after. You know what, we'll taste one white. This is, uh, I made a barrel for for a friend who's selling wine. It's like the Netflix of the wine. Oh, no, the Spotify of the wine. Who is it? Yair Haidou.

Oh yeah, sure.

So cheers. This is cheers. It's called That Jazz.

He's— yeah, he's a wine, um, writer, connoisseur. Yeah. But he— he— El Al used to use him to write the whole— exactly— write-up about him.

This is a variety that I never made before. What is this? Chardonnay. It's a Chardonnay. I never made a Chardonnay, and he challenged me. He told me, you never made a Chardonnay. I know it's not your but I always wanted to see how Chardonnay is going to come up in your hands. So I made it. It's 2020. It's 5 years old. Wow. So he told me, you made me a Chardonnay exactly like I wanted, like in the Grand Terroir of the Burgundy, you know, Montrachet, Aux Morsots, and with a lot of freshness and elegance, but a lot of body and weight as well. I took the terroir, it's coming from a very close vineyard in Merom Golan. Yeah. 1,000 meters of altitude. And amazing Chardonnay. And I don't make a Chardonnay, but the grapes are so amazing. And the guy wanted me to make a wine of Chardonnay. So I, you know, I surrendered.

Noam Oz loves that. Noam Oz is in Merom Golan.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. You know, Mona?

No. Yeah, she's— she's—

have you ever made a podcast with her? Yes, I did. I, I hadn't listened. I should.

She's— she like saved the Israel wine industry.

Yeah, with the viruses.

I know.

How, how can I find you? Can you send me the podcast?

I'll send you the link for that. I like to—

I like to listen to your podcast while I'm driving.

Yeah, no, I— that's why I don't put video into them because people—

no, you said dogs, they do everything. You said if you're driving Pay attention to the road. It's nice, it's nice. That's amazing. That's amazing. So you sell this? No, I didn't. And then I told him, you know what, he had some hard time in Chills and I saw that the sales are going down. Told him, you know what, I'll be more than happy to keep some for myself because every time, every time somebody came to, to ask me for this "Fine," he tell you, "you buy it from Yaïr." And then I told him, I grab like 200 bottles and I kept it. We have only half of it left. And we sell it mainly on Fridays when people are coming and want something special. You open one bottle for tasting and then it flies out the windows. So this is Chardonnay that it's like I made Chardonnay for myself.

I know. This is a Chardonnay that is unlike any other Chardonnay. Chardonnay that I've ever tasted. It's not buttery, it's not all the rest of it.

It's like, it's like a delicious white.

Exactly. It's an amazing variety, but people are overdoing it like they do with so many others. So this is— I wanted to taste something that we— unusual, that we currently have for a very short time.

And, uh, it's an amazing bottle.

And let— yeah, I know. And the text is unbelievable. He wrote it. He wrote the text. Said after years that Asaf Paz von Wittgen played in Mediterranean instruments. Yes. It was obvious that when time comes, he will convince to make his very high standards, his very high performance with the highest standard of one of the highest standards in the world, which is the Chardonnay, no other than the Chardonnay. And this— and that's how this creation was made. Wow. He wrote it as a, like, a music piece, right? So it's, it's a, it's a, like, it's a collector's item. I will keep you for myself. I kept the 3 first bottles from the line because they are numbered, you So, 1, 2, 3, I kept to myself. It was the second harvest. The first one was 2018, and 2020 was the second, and I kept it for myself. Wow. So you're ready? I'm ready.

This is Simon Jacob again, your host of today's episode of The Kosher Teruah. I have a personal request. No matter where you are or where you live, please take a moment to pray for our soldiers' safety and the safe and rapid return of our hostages. Please subscribe via your podcast provider to be informed of our new episodes as they are released. If you're new to the Kosher Terroir, please check out our many past episodes.