How Certification, Licensing, & Recurring Revenue Can Transform Your Business

Welcome to Inside the Speakeasy Mastermind Podcast, the private room where today's sharpest founders, innovators, and renegade thinkers come to trade the ideas that move industries. This show is brought to you by HighLevel, the AI-driven business operating system trusted by over 2 million businesses to help automate, scale, and create real leverage. HighLevel isn't just a tool, it's the engine behind some of the most agile and high-performing teams on the planet. If you're ready to streamline everything, amplify your reach, and actually build a business that works for you, you're in the right place. Visit www.gohighlevel.com/speakeasy-mastermind-promo to get an exclusive 30-day trial for being a listener of the Inside the Speakeasy podcast. Enjoy the show. We're all probably looking for new ways to generate revenue in this fast-moving day and age. Well, look no further than things such as licensing deals, certification, maybe even a better SaaS platform for your business. In today's episode of Inside the Speakeasy Mastermind Mastermind, we're bringing Mitch Russo out of Boca, who's generated over $30 million in working with Tony Robbins and Chet Holmes. He started his first business, or actually worked on his first business starting at 28 and sold it for $10 million. And now he is the guru when it comes to all things working with coaches. And certifications and licensing, and he's going to share lots of words of wisdom. Welcome, Mitch Russo.

Thank you, Eric. Glad to be here.

Yeah, no, thanks. And, uh, oh my gosh, we had so many things to talk about. You know, I'm a big fan of certification and, you know, especially in this day and age when we have to find more ways to monetize licensing. I don't think there's enough people doing things because I, in fact, I just had my first taste of it myself. I could maybe share a story a little bit later. And I know you and my, and my good friend Mike Filsaime have just partnered up for something called ClickCoach.io, where you're helping coaches building a great SaaS for anybody who's doing coaching. And I wanna talk a little bit about that too, because I know we have a lot of people listening that might be interested. But before we dig into some of this, I'd love to hear a little bit about this background. And you were telling me in the quote, green room about you being this young 20-something-year-old and you sold your first company for $10 million. Give me the visual where you're at.

Sure. So I was in Massachusetts at the time. I was a salesman on the road. I was selling semiconductors for large organizations. And having a great time, by the way, made a lot of money doing that. But I had this desire to be in the software business. I was watching Bill Gates really, really take off and I loved the product. I loved what he was doing. I said, you know what? I want to be in this business too. And I just kept brainstorming. What do I do? How do I get in? What would work for me? And then one day at breakfast with a neighbor, we, came up with the idea of a product that we could build and sell. So I went home, did some market research, came back and said, we should do this. And that's when we started working on a product. And that was when I was 27. Just to correct you, we didn't sell it at when I was 28, we started it when I was 28. So we went into business, began coding and documenting the product. It took us 9 years to scale the company from 0 to 250,000 customers. And that's when Sage came along and said, we want to buy you. Luckily at the time we had 2 buyers at the very same time. So we had the equivalent of an auction going on and we were able to negotiate the perfect deal. And that's when we made the deal and that's when I moved to Dallas, Texas. So here I was living in the suburbs of conservative Boston, Massachusetts. All of a sudden to the wild and crazy Dallas, Texas. And it was a great experience.

Well, what did the software do?

The software was time tracking software. So it started out as a simple little pop-up timer on DOS to keep track of time for lawyers and accountants. Later it grew very rapidly into a full billing systems and invoicing system and history. And it handled virtually the whole backend of a law firm. It happened so quickly. I mean, it took us 18 months to secure our position in the legal market. And then we got very, very lucky. We got a series of very powerful reviews in the press. There was no internet back then. So the press was really important. And one particular review in InfoWorld made us. It was that one review that basically took us to the moon. We were, we were selling 6 copies a week. Before this particular review of our software. After the review, we were selling 600 copies a week. Oh man.

So what year was this?

This was in 1980, right? 1986.

Okay. So, so certainly not the same systems and tools that will work now. There's too many options for articles and press and data. That ain't gonna work. So we turned it, turned our attention to some new strategies, which we'll get into. But before we get there, you took a turn and then you, I mean, how do you, and I knew you worked at Sage afterwards and did the acquisition. And then how do you all of a sudden get into business with Tony and Chet?

Sure. So when I was building Timeslips Corporation, we were doubling in sales just about every 18 months. And Chet Holmes was working for California Lawyer magazine selling space. And so he targeted me as one of his Dream 100 clients. If you read his book, that's one of the things he talks about in the book. And I gotta tell you, I was bombarded by Chet and his team, and I kept pushing him off as being a, just a pushy old sales guy and leave us alone and all that. Before I knew it though, I was starting to admire the effort and the organized way that he came at us and came at me. And it took about a year for him to convince me to get in the publication, but I had negotiated at that point for the cost of a single black and white page, a double color mid-journal spread, which put us on the map and immediately shot our sales to the moon. And so we became friends after that. And next thing I know, I, Chet's coming to Massachusetts and we're hanging out. He's meeting me in Vegas for shows. So it was, it became a very, very wonderful friendship. That lasted all of his life. And I was very sad to— I was there the day he died. So it was a very difficult time for me too.

Wow. What a cool experience. And so that's how you met him. And then how did you end up going into business with him and Tony?

Well, what happened was he had always admired Tony Robbins and thought that the two of them should do business together. And he was relentless trying to reach out to Tony. And finally he ended up getting a meeting with Tony outside of his normal— I think he was— Tony was traveling. Chet went out and met him, had a dinner meeting with Tony, and the two of them said, look, this makes sense. Let's bring Mitch into the conversation. Mitch is our president and CEO, and let's see, because he's going to run it, so let's get him involved. So once Chet got back home, explained to me what happened, Tony, Chad, and I began meeting every Thursday night. And for me, it was like we'd meet at 10, 10:30 PM on a Thursday night. Sometimes our meetings would go to 1, 2 in the morning. We would do this just about, I would say, 3 out of 4 nights, 3 out of 4 Thursdays a month until we figured it out. And it took a long time. We got a lot of moving parts, a lot of deal structure. And finally, right up until the point that we began recruiting people to attend our summit, if you will, in Las Vegas. We brought in 500 people in 6 weeks, $10,000 a seat, and it was Tony and Chet and 15 other top-end speakers like Jay Abraham and others. And we just put on an amazing 4-day show.

Wow.

Wow.

What a cool experience. And before I just sort of close the door on this one and we turn into some new topics, how was it working with Tony? I mean, was it a fun experience? Good, bad?

I mean, It was a lot of fun. Tony was, I have to say, a lot of people think that people are not what they seem in public in private, and that's not the case. Tony is as genuine in public as he is in private. And I'll tell you one quick story. I asked Tony if it would be okay if we got a picture with my daughter. We were coming to one of his events, the firewalking event. And he said, sure, just give my assistant a call when when you're there, and so she'll know and we'll schedule it. So we did the firewalk and it's already 2 in the morning in California. We're from the East Coast. And all of a sudden my phone rings and it's Tony's assistant. She goes, Tony wants to meet you backstage. And I go back to stage with my daughter. And I expected we'd do a quick photo and everyone go to bed because it was just so late. Tony sat there for half an hour talking to my daughter. He was so interested in what my daughter was doing and what she was, what she enjoyed, what she liked. It was such an amazing experience. I'll never forget it. And my daughter will never forget it either. And in some ways it shaped her life, that whole event. And again, that conversation with Tony really showed her that she could do or be anything. And she has been, she's been great. Yeah.

What a cool story. That is a great story. How magical. I was just gonna say that it impacted her. You beat me to it. I mean, that, that is cool. You can't— wonderful. Okay, so now how do we go, and I know you did a bunch of stuff, but Now you're the certification licensing guy, and I know you're doing some other stuff in the coaching world. How do you get into that? And let's, I know I'd love to get some shares for the community or anybody listening on what they can be doing in this world.

Sure. So, so one of the things that happened with Time Slips Corporation, as I mentioned, we scaled very quickly, is that we were scaling faster. We were selling more software than we had the capacity to support. So an incident took place. I reached out to a customer to see if she could support another customer nearby, and she was able to do it. And she said to me something that changed my whole viewpoint. She said, and by the way, Mitch, if you need me to help any other customers, just let me know. Well, that sparked this idea, even this dream of having 100 people, maybe 200 people like that all over the country who could go and assist my other customers. So I see what we need is a test. So let's write a test and see who passes the test, and that could be our certification program. We did that. We sold those tests for like $500 a test. We brought in like 6 figures immediately, but it was a disaster. And that's really where I learned how to build certification. So What happened was we had a lot of people who could pass the test, but who had no social skills, had no training skills, had terrible personal habits, had no professionalism in any way, didn't know how to market their services, and were failing all over the place. So we decided after being threatened with 60 lawsuits that we'd call back the whole program, fire everybody, and start over. And so I started doing research. I called all 60 of those people. And I said, what did we do wrong? What did you need that we didn't deliver? 60 conversations. And I did it personally. And I wrote very, very careful notes. I had to do it. I just had to know. Well, what we did from there is we built an entire program based on culture. That was the missing ingredient. So in effect, we created culture before we created the program, which is not hard to do. Most people think culture is something you feel when you walk into the environment and, oh, I feel so good here. It's a great culture. No. Culture is how the company sets up the environment so that when people arrive, they feel welcome, they feel included. More importantly, they know what's expected of them and what's not. That's what we call the code of ethics. So we build the code of ethics. We work with the CEO on making sure we understand the CEO's why. We understand the mission of the company, and from there, we create a course called the Culture Course. Now, the Culture Course was something I had to create, and I had to take all of my new certified consultants through that program before I could even let them out onto the street, whether they were qualified or not. But then we had to provide all of the infrastructure for them. And this is where a lot of companies go wrong. They instead sell a test like I did and say, okay, you're certified. Well, what does that coach do with their coach certification? Generally nothing. And then, you know, they pay once, whatever that fee was, $2,000, $3,000. But what I wanted to do is I wanted to create revenue, recurring revenue, multiple streams of recurring revenue from my certification program. And the way we did that is by making sure we deliver extreme value every single year so people would want to stay certified and pay that fee year after year. And that's what we did. We built marketing systems. We built email systems. We built all the pieces necessary so that a new certified consultant would effectively be buying the equivalent of a high-end business in a box. Right. And then we even found leads for them, and we even helped them generate clients. And then we co- consulted with them on their first clients to make sure that they truly got the material before we let them step in on their own. That's what made us successful. We ended up with 350 certified consultants in 18 months. It doubled the value of the company, and that's when we sold it.

Wow. Wonderful. And so what are you doing? So that's how the background— are you still consulting on certification?

Yes, I wrote a book called Power Tribes: How Certification Can Explode Your Business. And that book has been very popular. In fact, it's brought me many, many certification clients. And so what I do now is I work with people who want to build certification, and I help them create the program. I have a whole infrastructure in place. We have a few custom GPTs that help with the process. And bottom line is when we work together, you leave with a fully formed running, ready-to-launch certification program.

Now, for those listening, I guess there's two kind of— I want to ask a dual question on a share here for you. A is what— I'm going to ask a question for those that do not have a certification, those that do have a certification. So for those that don't, what is— what would you say is a good sort of way for them to ask a question? Am I potentially missing an opportunity to offer certification? Is this a revenue stream right in front of me, in front of my eyes? Having, you know, learning the skills and tools, let's say, of a Mitch Russo, that I could build out this new revenue stream. Is there a certain criteria you look for in companies?

Yeah, there is. There's several. Let me just start by saying when someone is thinking about certification, they have to think about what it is that they offer. Are they offering— well, you know what, I have 3 questions, the primary questions that will qualify you to begin thinking about certification. Question number 1. Is, are you a coach, consulting, or software company with an amazing product or service? So let's say you sell widgets. You don't qualify. Question 2, can others learn what you do and get the same results as you? So if you have this magical process where you have to go into a deep trance to reach into the gods of themselves and come up with answers, then this is not a good qualification. That's probably, you know, you can't teach people to do that. That's your personal skill. But if you can teach what you know to others and have them get the same results, then that is excellent and you are ready for the third question. The third question is, are you already successful? Are you generating somewhere around 7 figures or more so that you have a base to recruit people to become certified with you? And if the answer on that is yes, then we can help them get certified. Got it.

And For those that have a certification or at least are trying to build it out, maybe one or two tips on the biggest areas you see people are failing. And you mentioned something earlier, culture and the setup. So maybe that's one of them, just, you know, what you're walking into, but that's what you learned. Maybe in today's day and age, I don't know if something's different or maybe the clients you're working with, what's the most common thing you're seeing?

Well, when I speak to somebody who says, oh, I already have a certification program, I could generally find at least three and sometimes up to five recurring revenue streams that they're completely missing. Most people are basically, like I said before, they're selling a test. Once you pass the test, you get a certificate. Once you have your certificate, you're certified, but the company doesn't get any additional revenue beyond that initial, what they charge for that certification. I could show most companies how to turn that into recurring revenue. Then what we do is we go deeper and we say, well, what would happen if we took your certified coaches or consultants and turn them into a sales force, one that they'd love to be involved in. So they make a percentage on selling subscriptions to your services or your services directly while they make a profit and can add by adding their own coaching and consulting. So that becomes number 2. And then we can go further, but there are many, many opportunities for a company with existing certification to really dial it in and turn it into an enormous profit center. What I found is that most companies struggle with what I call lumpy revenue, where they do a launch, they get a bunch of cash in, and then they're fulfilling for a year and all of a sudden expenses go up and they're just wondering what happened. How come we, we can't make our numbers? What certification does is it evens out that cash flow. Now you can sell certification on a quarterly basis and bring in a new class every quarter, graduate them, and help them get clients right away. So it's a very simple process, but there is a process.

Got it. Okay. I love that. I mean, that's, that's good learns on both of those. It's funny because in my mind I have one of my clients I do certification with on the golf side and we're certifying golf coaches and, you know, charge them. In my mind, I'm like, check.

Okay.

Yeah, we're charging them and yes, they are. We're making money when they go off and do their thing. Okay. So we're okay there so far. but you know, I could, you know, I'll have to have a separate conversation and not waste airtime on that, but that's great. It's good to hear.

Okay.

So that's love it. I love the certification. And I think in this day and age, you know, I hope people are really thinking through this because we're all scrambling. We know that selling things online and digital courses are becoming more and more free. How else can we generate revenue for ourselves? Certification is certainly one of them. Let's get to the next topic, licensing. Right. I'm excited. I just did my first licensing deal, like, like literally like a couple of weeks ago or last week.

Congratulations.

And I had to use GPT to say, what the hell do I charge for the use of our brand and license? Same kind of product, golf on the golf side, the use of our brand into a golf resort. And so I get to test that there's real money there. But tell me what you've learned, what you teach on that.

Sure. So I started doing this as part of my consulting work some years ago, and I didn't even know really, I didn't realize, by the way, that this was a thing. I mean, I'd speak to a company and they had an interesting process. They would basically, they were a headhunter. They hired people, but they were like more successful than most headhunters. And I said, well, show me what you're doing. I want to see, I want to get behind the scenes and see your process. And I had this realization. I said, what would happen if your process is more valuable than your company? What would happen if we took this process and trained other recruiters to use it? And they pay a licensing fee every single time they recruit somebody using your system and using your tools. Well, that became a very big business. And I've done this over and over again. There's so many fun examples of people don't realize what's right under their nose. You know, have a conversation with somebody and already finding 2 or 3 things in their business that could become, they could license. And not only just license, but create level 1 License Level 2, Level 3. So there's multiple ways to do this to make it super successful and at the same time create enormous passive revenue that no one ever thought existed before.

Can you give me, so give me some more examples of that because I want us to be thinking, wow, like there's money underneath my feet. I don't even realize it.

Sure. So I know probably nobody listening to this has a luncheonette or a restaurant, but I'll tell you a funny story. So I had one guy call me up and he says, I do these very quick free consults with people. So I get a lot of people coming through with ideas and stuff. Guy has a lunch that he's crushing it. It's a bigger type of a casual restaurant and he has 5 casual restaurants around him, but he's doing probably triple the business of everybody else. And I said, well, why is that? He goes, you know, I'm not entirely sure, but we kind of have this cool way that we use our store menus. I said, really? What do you mean? And he describes this process that was actually quite fun and really unique. And I said to her, have you ever thought of licensing your menu system to other restaurants? She goes, what? Yeah. My paper, my dog-eared paper laminated menu. I said, yeah. And our line is that that one idea can result in a multiple 7-figure business if he were to take it seriously and build a sales force and go out to other restaurant chains and license his concepts.

Can people just steal that idea? Like, okay, great. Well, how is this done?

You'd think so, right? Yeah. You'd think so. But he has some patented pieces to it. In fact, apparently he bought the business and there were some existing patents around this that he'd never even paid attention to. He's kept them up because his attorney told him to do that. But there are so many things we overlook in the way we do things. Whether you have perfected a way of getting customers, if you have perfected a way of creating an environment or servicing customers or delivering a product, these processes are licensable. So while you don't need a whole culture, you don't need the same infrastructure you do for certification, with licensing, you could just pick something teach someone how to do it, license the tools to continue to do it, and then from there you have a business.

It soon sounds like you need to, you need to figure that is, you need to have it well documented and then have a sales team to go sell it and then somebody to actually onboard, fulfill it kind of thing.

Onboard, fulfill it, train it, and get it. In other words, there's so much that goes into this, but the recurring revenue capabilities, the possibilities are unbelievable. You could build a 6 to 7-figure business in the first year. Typically almost completely passive revenue. Once you get people onboarded and once they have integrated your processes into what they're doing, that money just pours in every month or every quarter. And it's basically free money.

Right. Back to the legal side. I mean, is part of the system though, you probably, once you have that thing, if, I mean, this guy in the restaurant example had the patents already. So do you recommend people go out and then somehow patent their process? To protect it or he's not even—

Yeah. In fact, you don't need a legal background to do this. Licensing is not a legal term. In other words, if I tell you, you could use my onboarding process, but you gotta pay me $100 a month to do it. And by the way, you can only use it in this type of customer and you can only use it in this part of the country and you can only use it between now and the end of December. You and I just have built a licensing agreement. And what— it's effectively a business agreement with a bunch of provisions.

But I'm still skeptical, Mitch, where I'd sit there and say, I'm worried that somebody's just gonna say, great, thanks for sharing me and teaching me everything, and I'm just gonna go do it myself.

Typically there's a piece of it that requires some component that you provide. So in this case, this guy had a sort of a platform which he can create these menus from, and you could, sure, you could recreate the platform and maybe now with AI, it would be easier, but he had it built. All you had to do is plug in your stuff and you could have his style menu. And it was a beautiful system, but I'm just saying you could do it with anything. So the guy who did the hiring business, the headhunter, what they offered was all their paperwork, all their forms, all of their stuff. They had a portal where they could go and they could onboard people directly. And they, that's how they knew that they were keeping the parts of their business secure while allowing others to use it. So we think of all these things and build them in.

So there's some ways to protect along the way, I imagine.

Oh yeah.

I imagine to some degree you probably look at, look at it and say, well, the cost for them to actually try to go build this on their own is going to be way more expensive than just paying us the licensing fee. Plus, as we all know, people have a million other projects on their plate. The last thing they want to do is add a new project. It's just going to be easier to pay the toll, if you will. The licensing toll and be done with it. So those are probably all little mini moats to ensure that you're, you know, I suppose there's a little bit of risk always. I'm sure there's probably some legal things in there too, a little bit, but yeah, I mean, sure. On an agreement.

Sure.

That's great. I mean, I think that's, you know, very interesting. My licensing deal is actually more of a brand licensing deal, leverage a brand, uh, which is a different thing using our, our name to be associated to increase the perceived value of your product, you know, kind of a. Bolt on. So that was an interesting kind of concept. But yeah, I mean, I find it really fascinating. I love these sort of new revenue opportunities for us to be thinking about. And as you're listening, watching this, you know, ask that question. Is there anything that you have that you might think other, like, wow, we really do this and we're fast and efficient and good at it. I wonder if somebody else would be interested in this technique.

Exactly.

Great concept. And then last, I know you got so many things you're wearing. I mean, you've been really excited as I talked to you. And of course I talked to my good friend Mike Filsaime out of Boca, who runs our Boca chapter. I'm a marketing genius. Business as well as you. You guys have a fun project called clickcoach.io. Give us a quick background on that because we have, again, a lot of people listening that are probably either, you know, somehow tangential in the coaching industry or know people or might be in that, that world themselves.

Sure. So this all started in 2019. My own coaching business was getting quite busy and I needed a tool to manage my clients and my sessions and everything else I did. So I went searching and I went and tried all these different coaching products and none of them worked for me. And, you know, I just decided I'd build my own. I know it sounds crazy, right? But the truth is, is that no matter what I would pay, if it worked for me, it would be worth the money. And I had a great development team on standby. So I thought, why not just give them this as a project? Well, it turns out that other people, other coaches saw it and said, Hey, could we use that too? And that's really how the business started. And then over the last 5 years, it's evolved and evolved and evolved until finally I convinced Mike to take a look at it. Mike sees it and he goes, this is way more powerful than I ever realized. But Mitch, it's ugly. I said, yeah, it's old. You know, it's designed 5 years, 7 years ago at this point. He goes, well, look, why don't we partner? I'll help you get it redesigned using AI. We'll collapse all the pricing into one single low price point and we'll offer it. We'll make some money together. We'll offer it to our customer base and we'll really show them what it takes to create a really impressive coaching system. I said, great. So we started this project back in January and now we're just finally really getting going. He's integrating it into the Groove family and it's been great working with Mike and his team and we're scaling.

What are the key things it does for those listening? What does the software do?

Sure. It, it basically, so in my world, if you're working with a client and you're a coach and you're not holding that client accountable and you're not tracking their goals and you're not modulating their accountability questions every week, if you're not watching to see if they do the homework that you provide and you don't have an active dashboard, then you're not doing your job. So all of those tools are built into Qlik Coach. More importantly, What it does is it saves me about 30 minutes, 20 to 30 minutes per client per week. And what that translates into is about 3 to 4 hours a week of time that I save using the platform. The other thing it does is it presents you in an absolutely professional way. So it changes the authority feeling of working with a guy with a Gmail account versus someone who's working through a professional portal who is branded and has their own custom interface. And at the same time, we track weekly their numerical stats. So what that looks like is that at the end of 3 months, I'm looking at graphs that all go up to the right. Now, do you think it's gonna be hard for me to go back to that client and say, hey, we did a lot of work these last few months. Do you wanna sign up for another 3 months?

Accountability piece with visuals and all that is just gonna be a win. And they win too, 'cause they're gonna get, they're gonna, you know, You do the work.

Exactly. And my coaches who use it use this as a selling tool. So when they're signing a new client, they say, look at the stats of the clients we've already worked with. This is what I can do for you too. So it really has multiple purposes here. And for me also, by the way, it has courses, it has invoicing and billing, it has group coaching and mastermind management. It does a lot of good stuff.

I was going to ask about that too. That's wonderful. It's almost like, it's almost like a spinoff instead of licensing it, you sort of went from licensing to going and saying, all right, in this case, I'm just going to build a SaaS. Instead of teaching the system how I do it, I'm actually building the product and now you're sort of selling it. So it's a little bit of a cousin of the licensing, if you will.

Exactly. Yes, exactly.

Well, that sounds wonderful. I guess as we wrap here, you know, anything else, any other sort of tips or nuggets you want to share when related to these different revenue streams or ideas you've been playing with or things you're seeing people are missing out on?

Well, most of the time, people who are in, particularly coaches in particular, really don't realize how much time they're wasting. And that's, again, with a single demo, I could show most coaches. We have a demo right on the website, clickcoach.io. It really has a full demo on it. So if you take a look at that and you say, well, if this were my practice, would I be interested in all of these customization and templates, storing all of my homework questions here and all that other stuff, all my courses here. It makes a lot of sense. So I think most coaches have an expertise or a genius of their own, but it's time to wrap a business process around it and really help let it help you make more money. I love it. I love it.

Well, thank you. And Mitch, my question for you is how have you enjoyed Speakeasy Mastermind so far? What's it meant to you?

Oh, it's, it's been great. I've met a lot of, it's been great meeting a lot of people locally. I've met a lot of people when I travel. Sometimes I go to different speakeasies. We went to the Tampa Speakeasy. Last year. It was a lot of fun. And unfortunately, I'm gonna, I'm gonna miss the April meeting. I'm gonna be on a photography trip out to Scotland. So I'm gonna miss that trip, but that's a good excuse.

So we want to get some good pictures of that.

Absolutely.

Well, very cool. Well, thank you so much for coming inside the Speakeasy today and sharing some words of wisdom. And I certainly picked up a few nuggets that I'm excited to think about in my businesses and probably talk to you a little bit more offline. So thank you so much, Rich.

My pleasure. Thank you.

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