Sales Without the Sleaze: How to Close More Deals by Doing Less

And then if they go to the abandoned, then the abandoned has a workflow that says, okay, they've abandoned. Now in 3 months, you're going to get a notification that says, hey, it's been 3 months since this person abandoned you. And you can even send, I love these emojis, the ghost emoji. Yeah. And they're like, oh yeah, I'm sorry, I forgot. And then by the last time I'm saying, you know, hey, do you want me to close your file? That's my favorite last line. Do you just want me to close your file? Is this not, you know, are we not a good fit? No, no, no, I do. I want to do it.

I hate to say it, but you're probably leaving a lot of money on the table and you don't even know it. And there's some simple strategies you could do to generate more revenue from your overall sales systems and strategies. And in today's episode, we're heading over to Charlotte to talk to one of our amazing members, Jen Schneider, who's going to show you some great tips and techniques to how to really tighten up all things sales systems and Here's the good news. You could do it in a non-sleazy way, as Jen is known as the savvy sales strategist, the non-sleaze way to do it. And she's seen so much money being left on tables out there. It's just easy to mop them up and get out there. Let's just make some more money together. Welcome, Jen.

Welcome, Dave. Thank you so much. Let's go.

So we're going to talk, we're going to get into some systems. And I know you've got a great career. You've done a lot of different things. So I want to take a step back so that the audience, and even including myself, who we're just getting to know each other, understands how you got so good at what you're doing. Tell me a little bit about the background and how you got here.

Absolutely. So I had been in outside sales with corporate America right out of college and got my feet wet in that industry, learning the ins and outs of what to say and how to say it. And then I realized after a while, it was like, I have something more to offer. It's just these simple products from whatever company. And I had this crazy idea probably about, I say 15 years ago, but now it's probably 20 years. I was like, I just wanna be a, you know, outsourced business consultant. I wanna help them find what they're spending money on, why they're spending money on it, and how they could, you know, change their marketing and their sales so that they work hand in hand so they're not fighting against each other. 'Cause a lot of times sales and marketing are two departments that fight. So I wanted to get them married.

I mean, especially in the corporate world. Okay, so you're out in college, the audience doesn't know you were Southern California gal that moved over to Charlotte. And where did you go to college out there?

Yeah, so I went to UNC Charlotte right here. It's grown. It doesn't even look the same as when I was there. So great experience, you know, in communications. So learned like mass media. I learned really, really quickly. I thought I wanted to be in broadcasting.

Yeah.

And learned I did not like journalism and broadcasting while I was there. I like people, I like relationship building, and that's where I think naturally people think that, oh, Jen, you're just a natural in sales. You know, you have all this. No, I worked really hard. I work really hard to make things look easy. I think people say it all the time.

There's this mental block we probably have that, oh, I'm just not good at sales. Like, I'm not good at it. You said I learned it. So let's hold that thought and go back to the corporate world. Because a lot of us, you know, I say there's especially members within Speakeasy Mastermind Mastermind and other entrepreneurs I talk to are always say are often the unhireables. Like they can't really go into the big corporate world. They just like, oh, that just feels icky. Even though corporate corporates would like to work with them. And obviously you ejected yourself outta that world and said, this ain't for me. Any big name corporations? I mean, is it just the like, okay, you go, I mean, how did that like sales onboarding go at the big corporate world? I'm always curious.

So I will say that when I talk about my corporate life, it was mostly with startups. So startups that got gobbled up by the bigger ones, right? So they got so good at what they were doing. And I'm gonna age myself right now. It was in phone book sales. So all the ads that went into phone books, the big, you know, attorneys, Full Pages, all the veterinary, like all the big categories. So I learned how to work with categories and then I also worked with companies that got bought out by bigger ones for promotional products. So I learned, you know, those types of things for businesses and they all ended up being marketing. So I'm like, yes, I'm selling, but I'm selling marketing and I wanna sell marketing that works. And it all comes back to their systems cuz I can give you all the doodads and things, but if it's not working and bringing you back profit, I want to get rid of that. Let's not pay money on that. Let's not do that.

So what were you finding early on as you're in these startups that got gobbled up? So it was a mix of stuff when you're there. Like what were the things that, like, was there a common thread of what you were getting trained and then like was there a common thread of what you saw that just wasn't, it seemed not to work other than you said something earlier that you felt like sales and marketing teams were fighting a lot, not in sync.

The thing is, is when you are in sales and outside sales, you are the marketing team. You are literally out there being the face of a company. And so you definitely wanna, you know, I think that the moral dilemma there is who are you working for? Like, what are the core values of this company? I feel like people don't leave companies, they leave managers. So it was definitely a lot of that, you know, type of environment of beat up the top 10 and, you know, let the stragglers kind of go. Whereas I was able to flip that concept. So when I went out on my own for the first time, I had a client where literally I was able to help them become better managers and leadership and make better systems and built their already successful construction business from, you know, just under $3 million to like almost $6 million in the first 18 months I was there. So I'm like, okay, proof of concept. This is pretty amazing to see that flipping it and becoming the person that people want to go to instead of, you know, when corporate, When your manager calls you, you're like, that pit in your stomach is like, is it good? Is it bad?

Call to a knot energy. Your heart starts racing. Yep.

It was always, I always knew like, oh, I did something really good. And that call would come in and she would have all these things that I had. It was almost like toxic dating, right? They tell you all the bad things so you don't go anywhere. I hated that. So with onboarding and the things that happened there and the sleazy ways that were happening were more of the like always be closing, like just the old school marketing strategies or sales tactics. And there's still some old ones in there. I do, I wanna do this reel that goes, you know, what are some of the strategies that are still good and ones that aren't? Like the Savvy Sales Edition is always be closing. No, we're not always closing. Nobody wants to be pitch slapped, right?

Yeah.

I wanna know more about you. If I came to you and know nothing about your business and told you everything about the product or service I have, you're gonna get the ick from me.

That's right.

And I want to teach people how to be human. And just listen and intake what they're saying. And if it is a good fit, then ask more questions. Like, be curious. That is where the beginning of sales that I learned was curiosity. Be curious.

That's so funny. I agree with you. I was actually just speaking on a stage and talked about the form of, I was talking about follow-through and I was talking, I actually said, before you go follow-through, stage 1 is active listening. Like, be curious. Your job is to listen, ask as many questions as possible. To extract the nuggets so that you can eventually explain what it is you're doing, but you're not, otherwise you have no context to it. And the more you talk, I mean, the more you get them to talk and listen. Again, this is just from Dale Carnegie's, you know, How to Win Friends and Influence Others at the end of the day. Right. So, I mean, just, you go that round, you listen, you look for the gold and okay, now I know the angle. You want to call it that, the angle on how to understand their needs. I truly now understand the needs. Here's how I can now solve their problem, but you got to understand what their problem is first. but you can't do that if you're talking at 'em. You said something interesting. You said in a reel, you mentioned something that is not the same. So let's go back for a second. Let's have fun for a minute. What is still kind of timeless, if you will, back in the old school techniques?

I love that you asked that question 'cause I was about to answer it before you even asked it. The first one to talk loses. I feel like we talk too much, right? So it's like you present it and then be quiet. 'Cause there's this awkward, and we all wanna jump in so quickly. And think that we know what their answer is, but you gotta just relax. If it means sitting on your hands, lay back and be calm. They just wanna fill the space. But if you can divorce yourself from the results, it's my favorite saying. I think Eileen Wilder is one of my favorites too. She says that if I don't care what you, what decision you make, and I know that I'm the right choice for you, that if you decide to choose me, then I want you to make that decision. It's not about pushing. I think that's where people think. About sales is pushy, I want you to make that. People don't want to be sold. They want to buy.

That's great.

So I want them to want to make that decision. So it is about giving them the information. If they say, I don't have enough information right now, great. Well, what can we do to solve that? What exactly is it? So you can then find out it's always one of three, which we probably know it's money, time, or investment, right? Like, what do I have to do to get these results that you're saying I'm going to get and the sales that I want to achieve?

Right. So walk through that again. I mean, money, time, investment. Let's dissect that. What are the 3 biggest? Can we go deeper on that?

Yeah, for sure.

Money and investment. Like how would you define the differences there?

Yeah. So investment is almost a blend of both because it's not just, you know, money is, is a renewable resource.

Right.

Time is a non-renewable resource.

Right.

I tell people you can't get the time back, but you can make your investment work. So it's about never losing. It's like I'm always winning if I Talk about an investment. Say I made a poor investment, right? I spent $10,000 on a course and I didn't get what I thought I was gonna get back.

Right.

But I got relationships, I got strategic partnerships, I found, you know, other things. I have to look at those things to make sure that I don't tell myself, well, I'm never gonna invest in a $10,000 package anymore. Because that's what a lot of people do when you get on calls or they're like 10, 20, 30, 50, whatever that number is, it's like, oh, I'm not gonna do that again. Because I've done that before and they lose trust in themselves.

Got it.

So when I talk to clients, when we're talking about like money, investment, and time, it's how much are you willing to go? Like, where is that? If you don't know their budget, I am all about sharing pricing.

Yeah.

Well, how much is it? Well, I'll tell you that later. Let me find out. I am okay with saying this is how much it is and I'm gonna tell you, you know why. If they're asking the question, I like to, Mirroring is a huge thing.

Yep.

If they wanna know numbers, let's crunch 'em. It's a numbers game. You know, how many are in your database? How can we reactivate? Like all those questions they're gonna start asking. I will play the numbers game with you all day long. If you wanna talk about your grandchildren and your cat and your dog and where you went on vacation, I wanna do that too.

Yeah.

Because then you do the personal step and then they're gonna go, okay, I like that she took the time to to talk about the things I wanted to.

That's right. That's right. I mean, there's some great nuggets in there. I want to dissect. Hey, I love that you said, why hide the price? I kind of agree with you at the end of the day. It's almost like I stand behind this price because I know there's value when I'm offering here. And if you're afraid to stand by, then maybe it's not that valuable. So at the end of the day, you're going to repel certain prospects that would never have bought that anyway. So who cares? Stop wasting your time. And those that do have the money and you show the price, you immediately said there's the value of this because clearly others must be buying it at this price. Okay, well, are you willing to listen to why it's that price and have that conversation? Or if you're not even interested and there's zero chance you'd ever park with that money, then great. Let's move on. Let's go, you know, onto the next call. Great meeting you and I'm here for you when you need, if you ever need it.

And a lot of times I talk about qualifying questions too.

Yep.

So if I'm getting on a call with somebody, I'm asking those in a qualifying form, right? Yep. I am qualifying you by saying, how much are you, you know, looking to invest in this type of work? Because you are, you might be a great technician, but if I hear I'm not good at sales, but you're a great technician of whatever you're doing, that's a great client. And I'm gonna see how much you're willing to invest by giving you a form to fill out. If people aren't doing pre-qualifying forms, they are spending way too much time on sales calls, whether that's going out into the world and doing it or doing it on calls. I really, really, really believe in the power of qualifying.

This show is brought to you by HighLevel, the AI-driven business operating system trusted by over 2 million businesses. To help automate, scale, and create real leverage. HighLevel isn't just a tool. It's the engine behind some of the most agile and high-performing teams on the planet. If you're ready to streamline everything, amplify your reach, and actually build a business that works for you, you're in the right place. Visit www.gohighlevel.com/speakeasy-mastermind-promo to get an exclusive 30-day trial for being a listener of the Inside the Speakeasy Mastermind Podcast. Enjoy the show. So let's share some tips here. So pre-qualifying. So there's, you know, the phone sales, getting on, meeting people in face-to-face at events. There's obviously a lot of online stuff. So what do you typically, what are your core questions you want to have on a qualifying form wherever they're, you're getting people to fill it out?

So smart. So like I have a client right now and we talked about budget. Right? So the budget is, and you don't want them to fill out a number because then they're not going to fill it out. So I would recommend doing multiple choice. Investment budget are, you know, under $5,000, $5,000 to $15,000, $15,000 and above, or, and you can even put unsure because maybe they are unsure, but then the next question is going to be, when is your timing? Is it in the next, is it in this calendar year, next calendar year, or not sure? If they're both unsure, then I would send them to maybe like a free course. Or, you know, some other, hey, go follow me on these places and see and follow the journey. And when you do know and you are ready to commit to these kind of things, then let's get on another call. And then put them in a reactivation. So in 6 months you're not losing them. So I think people have what I call leaky buckets, right? And they don't have a bowl to catch all the spaghetti they're throwing. They're trying this, they're trying that, they're going on social, they're going to events. But they don't have systems that are following up with the people that they're meeting and they're just trying to do it all manually. So.

Yeah. Okay. So let's unpack some things there. So the qualification for me, the budget question, the timing question, what other questions do you have on that? And then I want to come back to your leaky bucket because there's a lot to talk about there. I was listening to say, um, there's somebody I followed a while ago and he called it NBAT, N-B-A-T. It was needs, budget, authority, and timing. I was thinking a similar thing. Yeah. So like, A, are they clear on their needs? Do they have the budget? Are they, do they have the authority to make the decision? And what's the timing?

So you do, okay, so crawl forms based on what it's, when I talk about the authority, are you the person that makes the decision? Who else needs to be on this call?

Yep.

Who else needs to be here?

And man, I mean, you and I probably are talking about similar mistakes. I mean, how much time we spend weeks and weeks and calls and calls and all of a sudden it's like, oh, I gotta get my partner on here and the partner's having a bad day. Doesn't understand all the context of anything and they just poo poo the whole conversation.

Yeah. Or just say no because they're like, okay, you just brought me anything. I always ask for those two. And even I am willing to get on those calls numerous times. I have one of my favorite clients that took probably 4 1-hour calls to get them to, you know, agree and to move forward. And now they're like my favorite clients, right? I'm okay with them. I want you to get all the data before making a decision.

Yep. Okay. So now you talked about, let's talk about another tip. Because you obviously hit on one of my favorite topics that I'll be talking a lot about. It's in the midsection of my upcoming book here, you know, the follow-through, the follow-up, catching up on all the things, having a system for the leaky bucket syndrome that we all face. So, A, what are you seeing? You kind of talked about, let's dig deeper. What are most people missing? If I'm on this call, if I'm listening to this podcast, watching it, what is the most common thing that we screw up on? And what are some easy wins we should be able to fix our mess?

Yeah, I think what happens is we already have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars already in our pipeline or in our contacts. If you don't even have a contacts place, I don't care if you're using Excel or a CRM or any system, you need a list. And I don't care if it's a 90 revolving so that you are knowing to touch on them because the fruit is in the follow-up. People give up before they see the, the end result. My favorite saying is that people are like microwaves or ovens. They're either going to make a decision very quickly or they have to bake for a while.

But we tend to want to deal with the microwaves and we don't want to—

we want the microwaves. And those are normally the people at the top of the pyramid, as we all know, that 3% that we're ready to buy, that we just happen to, you know, crack at the right time, at the right moment. But there's 97% of people who aren't necessarily looking for said product or service.

That's right.

But you now open their minds and then now you're serving them information so that when they are ready, or the fact that I didn't even know I needed this, now I realize I need it. Now, are you the right one? You are going to be top of mind.

You just nailed the words I was going to say. That's exactly right. I say this all the time. I'm like, so many times you don't need it right then. But when I need that, I say this to my team. I'm like, okay, well, with Branded Eyes, I'm like, well, maybe they didn't need a marketing agency at the time. They probably just didn't. That wasn't their number one priority. They got other things, but. We gotta stay top of mind so that all of a sudden, not only for them, but if somebody's asking them for, hey, do you know somebody that could do this? They could say, hey, there's this company I heard about and they can recommend you. Is this just as simple as lead capture, get them in an email and just be communicating them X times per month, once per month, or like what's your best follow-up system that you like right now?

Yeah, so the follow-up system that I like right now is basically putting them into what I would call an, a reactivation. Right? So if for some reason I have reached out, I like the 777 rule too. So that's what I do. 7 new people, 7 old contacts, and 7 people who have bought from me in the past. If I'm doing that, I'm reaching out to people who have bought maybe a course or something smaller, or have spent money with me in any way, shape, or form.

Okay.

I wanna reach back out to them. And then people, 7 people who—

Oh, oh, let's slow down. So you reach back out, so let's really get methodical here. So let's talk to you. So your first 7 is somebody that's your customer. So reach back out. These are active customers, inactive customers?

Active customers.

Okay. So you want to reach out and just, what are you doing on the reach out? Is it a call? Hey, I'm just checking in. You're playing sort of account manager role at this point.

So actually you can make this an automation. And I think that people automate maybe a little too early, but if you already have a system and you already know what you're selling, who you're selling to, and your clients and your customers, you can automate it weekly to do a check-in, a monthly check-in or a weekly check-in with your clients. And so on that message, it would literally be if you have something new, right? That's what I was talking about. Money that we are not sharing with others because we haven't shared this new product or service. If you're adding on to, another thing is if you've gotten really good at a niche or a niche, however you say it. Now it's like, okay, well, I've gotten really good at this, but maybe it's niche agnostic. Maybe I can actually, you know, share with another market the same thing that I'm already selling to this market. So once you have proof of concept and you're selling very well, it then becomes, okay, what other areas can I expand upon? So 7 people that I've worked with in the past, and I also like to say, hey, is there anyone else that you know of that would be a good fit?

Got it. And that's also email drip, like, hey, just wanna let you know, here's still our content really. It's, here's what we're up to, same stuff. And then maybe the messaging changes. Do you know anybody that would be a good, that might need our services now?

And I feel like when you become a referable business because you've done good work for people, it's almost unsaid, but I do like having the opportunity to share with them the new things and, hey, who else would be interested in this? Oh, and then you just trigger them. Yeah, I've got this company I've been working with, or these people here. Always be looking for strategic partnerships.

Yep.

I also love doing like, a activity with clients upstream downstream.

Mm-hmm.

Because we all feel like we could do, and granted, do people reach out to me for things that I don't do? All the time. All the time. And in the beginning, raise your hand if you're listening to this and you were that entrepreneur who was like, I don't do that, but I'll do it cuz I'm figuring stuff out right now. Yeah. So in the beginning we're like, yeah, I can do copywriting. Yeah, I can do, you know, some of these other things. And guess what? Another one of my best clients that's been with me for 4 or 5 years now is one that came in and said, can you do copywriting in the very beginning? And I'm like, Shut down. And then it became, oh wow, Jen, you're really great at all these other things. So sometimes we get in side doors and I highly encourage people to know what you're good at, but also open yourself up to other opportunities so that you can then see what else they need. But upstream downstream, if you think about business, who's bringing people to you and who do you want to give to them? Right? So if I know really good, if we could just think of any person out there, a coach, consultant, or. Service-based business, they're gonna go from someone who wants to achieve this certain thing. So let's just do a fitness person, right? They might want to go to gyms and say, hey, I know you don't have fitness classes, maybe you might wanna send them to me. Or it's a nutritionist or something, right? They all need that person. And then a nutritionist might be like, oh, when you lose the weight, you might wanna get a great photo shoot.

That's right.

So here's, so that's where it's like, then I call the photographers and say, hey, I'm a nutritionist. I'd love to send people to your way. So if people are calling you and saying, I wish I could lose a couple pounds before my photo shoot, you can send them to me.

Love is love by nature. I mean, I always look at this and say, you know, you don't offer this service, but I can handle this service. I don't offer your service. So it's like you said, like, like, look, let's just find a way. I, you know, or you can even go and say, I'm looking to have a handful of partners that I can go all in with that I trust, know, you know, like, know, and trust that are going to deliver well. I know I'm not going to be good at doing this service. I'd love to be able to send them your way. Again, offer value first, right? And then you come back and say, well, great. Now any of your people that you don't want to service, can we take? Or, you know, obviously there's referral fee kind of thing if that's appropriate. And yeah, but even on that, what I've noticed is most people follow through suck. So they may have those relationships and all of a sudden they're like, okay, cool. I got a new Biz Dev partner. But then they just think all of a sudden magic's going to happen tomorrow. I'm like, no, you got to nurture them almost more than anybody else. That could be a flood for you if you get it going. You know, it's almost a race to be able to give them a lead before they give you one so they can— you're top of mind for them all of a sudden.

A true strategic alliance will feed you more than anything you're paying money on, right? Yep.

Yep.

A true strategic part. Like, that's what I rely on because my phone rings literally constantly because of that.

Best leads.

Best leads. They're like, oh, well, so-and-so already used you and they said they use you for this and this. Okay.

Yep.

Where do I sign? I'm like, I love it.

I know this seems obvious to the reader listener, but think about on your end, who are the 4, 5, 3, 4, start with a couple people in your sphere downstream, upstream, as Jen said, that, you know, you can help them. You don't want, like, think about a service you don't wanna deal with that, you know, your customers start there. Start with a service that, you know, you don't wanna handle, but many of your customers probably want that or need that. Start there because you have something to offer to a strategic partner. You can offer them customers. They will take that call when you can offer them customers. And guess what? You're now opening up a relationship and they will probably likely want to reciprocate by sending you customers as well. So yeah, I think definitely there's opportunities there. On the follow-ups, back to follow-ups, I like that the 777. Is there a CRM tool you like to have or any kind of thoughts within, and then for frequency CRM tools, what you're saying, other than just here's an update on what we're doing. What else?

Yeah, so I've taken a CRM tool and kind of developed a lot of these strategies and systems inside of it with my own, you know, touches, and I've called it the Savvy Sales System, right? So it is built on GoHighLevel. I pull back the curtain because there are people who want to build it on GoHighLevel, and I will absolutely also consult for that as well. Like, I've done full buildouts for their own GoHighLevel platforms because they have a, they have a franchise or they have multiple locations and they just, they need their own.

Nice.

And I'm like, that's great. And then I can offer also the consulting inside mine, inside my group. A lot of people are like, nope, I want it in your environment because then I can do the things with them, right? I ask questions, they could get on calls. I do a weekly workshop. So all the updates in the software, we talk about it. I answer questions. We also do like closing strategies, cuz a lot of people, I'm like, I don't care how many, a lot of people think they have a leads problem. And I will tell you a very, very vast majority of them have a closing problem.

Tell me more. What are you seeing the most common thing people are not doing correctly?

Yeah.

On the closing.

So with leads, I feel like they're either trying to, you know, close too quickly. Right. And, or they're not following up properly.

Yep.

So it's one or the other or a little bit of both. Because if you're aggressive on that first call and you're like trying to get them to make a yes on that first call, which I feel like that's most of the time what people are being taught to do on some of these really—

one call close, one call close.

Yeah, you're like, you, I don't care if they've got, you know, cancer. And I'm like, oh, that's just awful. Like, it just feels grimy and not appropriate to me. Because if somebody just said, I only have a month to live, I'd be like, okay, That's different. And so when I say those things, I say them because I've heard other people say them and I know how it sits with me and I would never want to be that person. I wanna find out on that first call or on that first meeting. Granted, I was in First Call Closes in one of my outside sales, so I knew if you do want to have a higher closing ratio on your first call, there does have to be, it's not aggression, it's not, you know, persuasion, it's what is your unique value proposition. You have to be really clear on that to be able to say, there's gotta be, and I hate to say this too, there's gotta be some FOMO. What are they missing out on? If they don't go now, what is that? You know, that urgency, the, if it's whatever it is in the case of, oh, it's exclusivity. You're the only, you know, industry of this certain kind, whatever that thing is for you and your business, you have to really hone in on that to be able to say a one-call close. But reaching back out, not forgetting, oh, hey, I also have this, then get on, getting on a second call, scheduling that second call while you're on the first call.

Yeah.

People forget that. Oh yeah, I'll get back with you. Okay, great. And then what happens?

Nothing. Goes into the CRM, it gets lost. The, uh, salesperson isn't organized. They're not following up. They're not taking the notes properly. Drives me crazy.

They've got this huge, long sales process and I'm like, No, you need 4 to 5 stages and then you need SOPs in each stage. That's what's going to, instead of doing all these stages, here's what needs to happen before this one gets pushed to the next stage. You need to reach out to them, phone call, text message, email, carrier pigeon. I don't care. Right? People respond differently and I'm actually looking into, you know, going back into some like Mailbox concepts, like getting into their mailbox in a way that feels, you know, personal and sending them good things too. Like if you're a good client, I feel like doing reactivation with good clients, sending them something that's valuable, cuz I was in promotional products too, so I get it. A lot of the promo products though were stuff that I felt like people threw away. If you do it right, and I mean mugs or, you know, something valuable to them and thanking them for their business. So I. Just say every stage has those things that have to be done a certain amount of times before it gets put to the next stage. And then if they go to the abandoned, then the abandoned has a workflow that says, okay, they've abandoned. Now in 3 months, you're going to get a notification that says, hey, it's been 3 months since this person abandoned you. And you can even send, I love these emojis, the ghost emoji. And they're like, oh yeah, I'm sorry, I forgot. And I did a reel too that was like, hey, are you ready to buy? And it was doing the Backstreet Boys song, like everybody. They were like, Are you ready? And they're like, I'm like, what do you do to get to that except, but I'm reaching out to them. And then by the last time I'm saying, you know, hey, do you want me to close your file? That's my favorite last line. Yeah. Do you just want me to close your file? Is this not, you know, are we, are we not a good fit? No, no, no, I do. I want to do it. Oh, well, there's my money.

I was looking for the right wording because it's funny. I have people that know, I always say this all the time. One of my favorite quotes was from Bob Costas that says, no is better than maybe. And so our goal is to get to the abandonment, and I'm not afraid to tell a client that, like, look, I don't care if this is not a fit for you. Like, and I like, I haven't found the right words. I love that. So thanks. You know, hey, by the way, it's all cool. Can you already close the file? Like, and I always just say like, we're busy. You're busy. I get it. We're all running around doing things. Totally cool. Timing's bad for you. I'll just go ahead and close your file. I like that.

I don't want to be shut out. This is something that I've, you know, they, then they feel like they're being pushed away and they're like, no, I don't want that.

Yeah, we don't need you. And I think we're so conditioned to everybody chasing us down constantly. You know, I mean, obviously you can even go down the relationships and all the other stuff, you know, as soon as you get, you get your file closed on you, you're interested again.

So it's semantics in a sense, just getting them to realize like, I'm, I don't wanna keep reaching. I say go for no, go for no. And the way that I even say that in the ways that I do sales is, so what I'm hearing is you don't wanna keep spending money in this area and not getting results. Is that right? You know, like they say no. When they say no, then you've hit it. You've literally hit the button that they're like, yeah, I wanna spend money in the right places.

Right.

And not continue to lose money. Do you want to continue lose? It's, and it almost sounds stupid, like, you know, their answer is no, but you want them to hear it and say it so that they go, oh, you're right. I don't wanna keep wasting money.

Okay. So let's talk about, I'm gonna talk about macro concepts here. You said the selling without the sleeves and the sleaze and that So, so why is your process not sleaze? Where does the sleaze go away? Or where is normally you see the sleaze and how are you removing it?

Yeah, I feel like with people in sales, when I get out into the world and I'm being sold to, it really is that really straight up trying to— those types of things. I, I remove that from any of the sales techniques and concepts that I've learned. And there's a really great book too that I love, which is Sales Simplified. And it truly focuses on simplifying your process because what else? A confused buyer won't buy.

Mm-hmm.

And what are we doing? We're like Chinese menu at some point in time and then they glaze over, right?

Right.

So I feel like in sales it truly is about answering the need and making sure that you're the one that they want. Because how many times have we taken on clients that we wish we probably wouldn't have?

Yeah. Oh God. Yep.

Bend over backwards. And then there's all, it's like, oh, you know what? And I talked to this lady yesterday and she said the same thing. I had to fire my, you know, my biggest client and it was a relief, but it's also, you know, monetarily now I'm like, okay. But I told her, I said, by doing that, you've now released yourself to then get a better, every time I've released someone, I've gotten something better. Always better.

Always better. It's, it's Such a hard, I'm glad you brought that up. It's such a hard thing for you. Yeah. So everybody look at your PITA meter, your pain in the ass client meter, and take your biggest score. We used to actually have a PITA score in our client company at some point, would figure that out. And as we were looking at clients onboarding, we literally would have it like a, like, okay, which one, let's throw the PITA factor in there. And it's a big, it's a big weight. And yeah, one thing I want to go back on that, that you said that I want to emphasize or talk about is some of the existing accounts too. I think it's so important. We've made the mistake quite a bit, especially when you have account managers on your team, of making the assumption that everything is great and you're not extracting from the client what's not great. And we tend to want to close somebody, sell them, be in there, hand them off to our teams and just walk away and think everything is fine and rosy. So part of sales, I love how you said earlier, it's also talking to your existing clients. I think not only trying to tell them about new features, But wouldn't you also talk about just even just checking in because they could give you the referrals and you don't, you don't wanna, not wanna lose the client too unexpectedly.

Yeah. I feel like when you have those notes and information and things about them, what also helps that is to accelerate that. Oh, I have something for you. I have someone for you that's a good fit. So you're actually giving them something also in that course of. But if you have salespeople, what I— here's another thing. When there's salespeople involved, I say stop over-promising. These people are promising all of these things. And I love those reels or those videos where it's like products talking to developments, talking to sales, is talking, you know, like, oh, you said that was gonna be out. We signed on because this thing was gonna be available.

Yeah.

And then they're like, you know, product development's like throwing it out there. So I would say, it's under-promise, over-deliver, right?

Yep.

Say what you can do at the baseline. And what's another thing that happens too in these calls is that you give 'em what they, like, they're gonna ask you for what they want and you give that, but then you're gonna switch it for what they actually need. Like, I'm gonna give you, these are the things you say you want, but in reality, these are what you need because I've done the research. I am, you know, the expert, whoever, whatever you do, they're gonna come to you with what they think they need. I need, I need to lose 10 pounds. I need, you know, yeah. If we could take that off and take that off the front burner and work on this, and then that comes as a result, would that not be even better? Yeah, actually mentally I'm not focused on that one thing that I want so desperately. I'm now focused on what I need to balance out my life, to balance out all the things.

That's a huge lesson I'd share. You give the analogy of really the, I always say the doctor and the doctor analogy too. I mean, how many times do you get prospects? Coming to you and telling you what they need to be successful. And essentially they're asking you, you're like, well, wait a second. Do you walk into your doctor's office and tell them exactly what kind of surgery you need for your knee? Cause your knee sore? Like, or you say, hey, look, can you, you know, so, so it's like, we have to do a diagnostic first before we could prescribe to you. And as soon as we made that flip internally, that really helped. It's like, timeout, I think you need this, but let's take a second. Are you willing to go through some questions and have us do a diagnostic on you before we confirm that? Prescription that's best for you. And otherwise, we put ourselves in a corner.

Yeah, people say they want all these things, but there's got to be a true deliverable, right? Because— and I will say, here's where the language almost may sound clickbaity, right? Because you might say, hey, do you want this? And they do, right? They want that thing. And then you tell them on the back end, because people just try to throw out all the things that you, like I said before, the Chinese menu, I can do this, I can do this, I can do this. And you're like, blah. And then they become scrollable, not notable. That's another one of my things that I say is like, if I'm seeing the same thing and you're doing the same thing and you're saying the same thing, I may not delete you. I may not unfollow you, but I am scrolling past you.

That's right. I love it. I'm going to go back again to one thing you said where all I'm kind of bringing it all together. You know, you also say you do things simplified. If you do it simplified, part of your strategy. Is it just because by setting up the systems up in advance, it makes the process better when you have all the CRM and the leads and your GHL working smoothly or whatever CRM that you're deciding to use?

Yeah.

Is that how it gets simplified? Is that really just the process of your follow-throughs are happening correctly and all that automated? Is that why you're having a lot of success with your clients?

I feel like when it comes to simplified systems, it is having a backbone. It is having that bowl. It is having it, you know, developed. But again, you have to have something already developed. So if you don't, then that's where I can come in too and say, hey, a lot of times I'm like, okay, what's your system? And they are successful in spite of themselves. It is amazing how many times I have just seen people done great because they were in the right place at the right time. The market was ready for the thing they did, and now they're wanting to scale. And I'm like, so how'd you get there? Dumbfounded at how many people. Have no clue, like what's your revenue?

No, I don't know. I don't know. They're just like, they're just pushing. Okay. So, so that's a good question. So for those of us listening, and I want to walk away with a tip here. So if I'm a founder, entrepreneur listening to this, what are you seeing is probably the top 2 or 3 most common things that maybe we're successful despite of ourselves and think we're doing great, but the most common things, and we might've covered a lot. So maybe just to recapture those common things. We could be shifting right now to generate more money and have, you know, within a short time span and just way have less stress, et cetera, et cetera. What do you see out there?

Yeah, I feel like the founder, the CEO, and I'm guilty, is the bottleneck. They are the ones, and I love Leila Hermosi. She's incredible. You know, she's like, get yourself out, right? If you're the best salesperson and you're the salesperson, get, train somebody on the sales. And then put yourself into another place where you're uncomfortable, you may not be familiar, and then hire and find the people, the generalist, and then go down to the specialists, right? And I think, you know, Cody Sanchez says that too. I've done that in my construction, you know, working with construction companies and owning one myself. It's like, okay, get the right people in the right positions and then get yourself out of the way. SOPs. And I'm, I'm like, record yourself, go out and whatever you do in a day as a technician, whether you're a, you know, integrative health practitioner, if you are a coach, consultant, service-based, go out and put a mic on you or your phone of some kind and just record yourself. Do even an analysis of where you're spending your time.

So biggest problem is this, is the entrepreneurs in their own way. They're slowing the system. They're trying to do sales. They get in the business versus on the business. And they gotta build systems to relieve themselves of that.

They get in the nitty gritty.

Got it. Another topic, and then I'll wrap soon, cause I've taken a lot of your time. The AI, let's talk about AI in the world of sales. How are you seeing it? How are you seeing it really enhance and how, you know, what's exciting you these days on as you're bringing this to clients?

So I love being able to bring AI to companies because what happens though is people just see AI and it's a buzzword. Right? So it's this buzzy word and they're like, I just need to input AI in my company. And I'm like, well, what do you need it for? I need it. I'm like, well, is it processes? Is it sales? Is it, what is your goal? So I was at a Speakeasy Mastermind event and I just came up with, you can call me lead gen. Yeah. And everybody loved it. And it really just pushed me for like, how do I help people with leads? Because that's what I mean, like I've naturally been able to over the course of learning. Attract people to whatever business it is that I have. Like, I feel like, let's not do, let's sell the pen, but you know, at the same time, bring me whatever your concept is. I can read the bottle that you can't read because you're inside of it. And AI right now, like using that to answer your phone calls, to make sure that you are getting the information that you need, that are doing inbound and outbound. Also multi-touch, right? Use your AI employee to do your email strategy. So make, let it call the people, let it do the email strategy.

The follow-ups, all the stuff that you could be doing, I think is so much easier now with AI. Like, haven't got a newsletter out? You know, you can have your AI write one for every type of, all your 777, your AI can write a different copy for each of those.

So true. And that's where I would start. I would say doing a receptionist is really important. Right. And having that person, having it feed the brain, right? Because it is literally just taking everything you already know and answering it. Can it put together an order for you? Is it like, what are you selling? Do you want to sell? Like, if somebody answers that phone for you and it is something that you have a product or service that you can sell right then, wouldn't your AI then sell it? And then you already onboarded. Now they've sent you.

Wow. Yeah.

They send you the link that says, great, you're ready. And then you get an email that says you have a new client.

Like, whoa, damn. Love it.

All right.

I'm going to close the loop on something we started the call with is you said that you were going into communications, other stuff, and you didn't think you liked sales. It was hard. You didn't like, but you learned to do it. And for those of us who are just like, I'm so turned off by sales. I can never be good at sales. Tell us, inspire me slash our listener on why it may not be as difficult as they thought. And really, what is it? Just, I mean, how do they get there?

Yeah. I feel like savvy sales is truly just the energy that you're putting out. Be magnetic, right? Be human. Let people want to be— if you're closed off or if you're like, this isn't my job, or I don't, I can't do that, that energy puts off.

Yeah.

Okay. If you can't do it, then you won't, right? So what we tell ourselves, if I say I can't sell, you're right. You can't. Right. You say, I don't know how to right now, but I'm ready to learn. What products and services do I have available to me? What free stuff can I gobble up and then get to the level of saying, okay, I've got the free scripts that people have given me because I love scripting. Honestly, if you say you're not good, get a script, script it out, but have it on your screen if you're doing a Zoom call, or if you're, you know, just script it out. So once you get good at that, then you can ad-lib, then you can get a little spicy and throw things in there because you've now sold, it's now a viable product. Like if you are the person who's selling, you have a script, you're giving it to somebody. And I feel like it's like dating, right? Yeah.

Yeah.

If you tell somebody, just go out there, go find the person.

Yeah.

They're gonna like, they're gonna fail and then they're gonna feel like they're not good at it.

That's right.

But if you give 'em a script and you tell 'em, hey, you wanna find out something about them, you want to, you know, share a highlight of someone else. How did Maggie like, you know, like All those things are so important in that first initial meeting when you're getting ready that you are prepared. I feel like lack of preparation is preparation to fail.

Yep. Yep. And I would add on to what you're saying, and it sort of just goes without saying, is that the product itself, you have to be excited about and believe in. And even back to the dating, if you're not excited about yourself as a person, it's gonna go hard to date. If you don't believe in yourself, then it's hard. If you don't believe in the product you're building or doing, especially as an entrepreneur, that we have a problem, we gotta go fix the product 'cause it's gonna be hard to do that. And then the other thing I learned, my other lesson, just to add to the topic, is that I know a lot of us are afraid to ask for the money, especially of people they know. Oh, I feel bad. I have, I'm insecure, or I have imposter syndrome about the price of my own thing. And I think that's where we find communities like Speakeasy Mastermind and others and find good people around us to give us the confidence about the value of what we're selling. 'Cause we have a hard time valuing ourselves. So I would say, Have somebody else help you create the value and convince you of that. And I love telling people that come up with a board or somebody else who's in charge of the pricing. That's not you. If you're afraid to say it and blame it on somebody else. I fired myself from pricing in my agency because so many leads were coming from me and from my network and friends. And all I want to do is hook everybody up, you know, and I'm like, you know, like, oh, I want to hook up Jen. She's a great member of Speakeasy Mastermind Mastermind. I can't charge you the full rates. Like, so like, that's what I would do all the time. And my team would be like, Eric, you can't hook up. So I'm like, all right, I'm out. I don't even do proposals anymore. Sorry, off my plate. So if you're even, if you're a solopreneur, I'm like, I don't know, blame it on your spouse. Make up a board of directors. Like you're not in charge of the pricing.

I got off a call with a lady and she's like, Jen, I have clients that I'm charging $15,000, you know, a month for, but then I'm also getting them $250,000 deals. I was like, she's like, I wanna get more of those deals and charge them instead of my hourly rate. Charge them what they're worth and a commission. I was like, then you just said it.

You do it. Yep.

Let's do it.

Yep. Let's do it. So, well, cool. And then last question is, I know it's been, it hasn't been a lot. You've been in Speakeasy for a few months. How have you enjoyed the experience? Tell me about so far about being part of Speakeasy Mastermind.

Yeah, so I had honestly almost felt like I'd given up on networking cuz I'm like, I'm already busy. I've already got clients. I'm, you know, in the day-to-day so much that I, was so grateful to have something that felt aligned, that there were other people that were in the same level as I was that wanted to scale. Because it seems like, you know, a lot of networking is just these, you know, they're happy with the ho-hum. And it was just big minds and great cool ideas. So it really helped me to broaden the horizon and be excited about networking again. And then the global— so the local's really nice to have my board of advisors like we talked about before. Really key-knit group that I feel really confident, you know, sharing things with, getting, you know, vulnerable and about even things that are aside from business. Because guess what? Personal. We try to take the personal out of business, but there's— you have to have somebody that you can be vulnerable with in that area, arena as well. So that's what I love. And then global just blew my socks away. Like the referral parties, the AI conversations that you're putting together, and then of course this upcoming, you know, conference, yearly conference that just is going to be so cool to see people face to face and enjoy that camaraderie with a global community.

Awesome. Thank you for that, for those kind words, and we're so glad to have you. And is there anything I did not ask that, that you think we could have— I should have— or anything else? You think we covered it all? Just want to make sure we get it out there, man.

We were rapid fire. That was fun. I loved it. No, I feel like Sales could go on forever and literally could talk about it all day long. I could sit and geek out with you for forever, but at the end of the day, I feel like people just have to let go of the stigma and just go after it, right?

That's it. That's it. All right, so thank you so much, Jen, for coming in today, and appreciate you. Looking forward to seeing you soon, and we'll talk to you— we'll catch you later. And that's a wrap from the Speakeasy Mastermind Podcast. If If something sparked for you, don't keep it to yourself. Share it, review it, and pass it to the one person who needs to hear this right now. Want in on the real mastermind? Tap the link in the show notes to apply. Until next time, keep scaling, stay sharp, and don't be the smartest one in the room.