The Identity Trap: Why Success Still Feels Empty

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If you follow the model, you don't ask about your behaviors, not even your emotions, your thoughts, your beliefs.

Now, should we address those?

Sure. But if you want to change every Everything you change from the base. So you change your questions about your identity.

Got it.

This is key.

So many of us entrepreneurs are stuck and we can't get to the next level and we're just looking for that big breakthrough. And guess what? It's not necessarily a new skill, strategy, tactic, or fad. Often it's how you actually see yourselves. And we're going to learn all about that as he, the author and leadership coach behind the Eden Model, is about to share some really, really incredible strategies, game-changing strategies, simple techniques to help us get to that breakthrough, stuff that is just right there in front of us, and we all are stuck and we need this. I'm so excited to head on out to Utah to meet one of our amazing members in our Utah chapter. Welcome to the show, Ben Eden.

Thank you so much, Eric. I've been looking forward to this.

Yeah, me as well. I'm so excited. I mean, it's, you know, I love talking to some of our top leadership coaches and consultants out there and people that work with us because We need that. We're in our game, we're in the business running around. Sometimes there's one little twist, one little thing that we just have to reframe the way we're looking at stuff. And I imagine you cover a lot of that. And I want to get to some of the things you say, because I'm so excited personally, you know, I'm stuck, I need some breakthroughs here too. So let's go back in time a little bit. Tell me about this, the 9-year-old story and how that flows into everything.

Okay, well, I'm going to do what a lot of TV shows do and then show you a snippet and then go back in time. So I did what most of the world teaches is the path to success. Okay. In fact, what the world teaches is you chase results, and if you get the results, you feel good, and therefore you feel successful. And we know this because it starts in elementary school, right? I mean, play along with me here. In elementary school, what results are you supposed to get?

Supposed to get A's and O's or whatever the number is, 5 or whatever. There you go.

Yes. Yes. So those types of results. And if you get an A, what does that mean about you?

It means that I'm doing a great job and I've achieved the highest level of success there.

Okay, good. So it was interesting how you worded that, because when I do this on stages, most people say it means I'm smart.

Okay.

Now watch this. If you get an F in school, what does that mean about you?

It means you are bad. You failed. You didn't do the work. You didn't do the assignment work. You're a failure.

Okay, good. Now, so everybody listening, just pay attention to the words Eric just used. This is what we all do. So I'm just making this a good example for everybody. Eric, you're unique, and I can tell a lot about you because of the words you used first. What you ended on was failure, right? What most people do is they take a result and make it an identity statement. It's not a, I got an F. It's not, I got a failing grade. It's no, I failed.

I failed.

Okay? So, we learn that from very little and it translates into work. It translates into our entrepreneur life. If we succeed, we are successful. See how we connect that? So, this was my mindset as I went through and I said, great, I want to be successful. How do I achieve success? You go to school, get a degree, become an executive, travel the world, have the nice things. There you go. So, I said, great. I can do that. I did all the education. I became an executive in my 20s, traveled the world, helped make a company become international. And technically you'd say, great, Ben is successful.

You checked all the boxes they teach you in life to tell you, you know, yes, the path.

Yeah. But what every single entrepreneur listening can relate with is as soon as you check that box, then you think, was that it? Or what's next? Right, right. And we immediately move on to the next thing. So here's what happened to me. I had done everything that I was supposed to to be successful, and I checked the boxes. But my boss— so I was in HR, I studied human resources, loved it, got the master's degree, became a certified professional in the national space, and was really doing well in the HR space. But at work, my boss, the CEO, the person who should most value what I bring to the table, came to me one day and said, "Ben, we have nothing against you. We just hate HR." Yeah. So, I had spent the last 7+ years creating my identity completely around this HR because I thought success, I want to be the best HR professional there because I know what they can do for a company. So with that as my identity, when my boss says, "We have nothing against you, Ben, we just hate HR," my brain takes it to mean, "Well, I'm HR, so therefore you must hate me." Right. And here's what happens. Our brain proves everything that we believe, right? So it's like, "Okay, well, he hates me." So now when he doesn't invite me to meetings, when he's short with me, when he takes my coworkers out to lunch and not me, everything proves to me, "Well, he says he has nothing against me, but he really hates me." Got it.

You're starting to focus on that, yeah.

Yes. And so even though I was successful, successful, top of the game, I felt like a complete failure. Felt like, who am I? What am I even doing here?

A total mind mess up, thinking, like you said, you check the boxes, you did the things, you're like, what do you mean? How can somebody not like— I just did everything. I achieved everything I'm supposed to do.

Yes. And that is a complete struggle for the brain because for years this quote unquote worked. This is what works. This is how I'm successful. And now exactly what I was doing isn't working. So now the brain is saying, I have no clue what to do. And on the deepest level, it says, I have no clue who I am or who I'm supposed to be.

Right? Right. Right.

And entrepreneurs in every level of breakthrough, they go through this, whether consciously or subconsciously. Who am I? Who am I supposed to be? And what do I want to accomplish? But we'll get there. We're not going to get there yet, right? But let me just wrap up this story because this is important and everybody can relate. As I was feeling this, trying to be successful, trying to check other boxes to fill my cup, I couldn't find that. And so I did what the brain does. I want to feel a certain way. And if I can't, I'll find another way to feel that. And that's where you enter even the world of addictions. I started to enter that world and did things that I was not proud of. And that impacted my sense of identity even more because now I'm doing things that are against who I think I am, against my values, and I don't know how to get out of it. So now I hate how people feel about me. I don't like what I'm doing. And now I start to hate myself.

Hate yourself.

Yeah.

So when people say Ben, not knowing how to get out of this, this downward spiral.

That's exactly right. So I'm stuck in this world where people looking at me say, Ben, you have the picture perfect life. Executive in your 20s. Your resume looks amazing. You should be super happy, right? Traveling the world, the nice house, the nice car. But no, I felt like I had to have this mask of success on, saying, this is the identity that people like. But who am I really? Actually, who I thought I was at that time was a broken, disgusting, you know, something wrong with me type of person. So there's the depth. But now let's get to the 9-year-old story, right? So I'm facing this addiction and really trying to get out of it, and I finally come to this point that say, I have to change. I cannot keep living this way. It goes against my values. I don't like it. I can't pretend it doesn't exist. I have to ask for help. So I did. I joined a group, and maybe we'll get into that story, but I know how much time we have. But as I went to this group, I thought, do I really have to admit to other people that this is what I was doing? Because I have this facade or this mask that says, Ben, you're, you're amazing. And I can't tell people that no, I'm not, right? So I go to this group, but as I go to this group, I look around and I think, wait a minute, they look exactly like me. Good people, often very successful, smart, intelligent, so forth. Say, wait a minute. So if they're good people who happened to turn to a bad behavior, maybe I'm still a good person. Maybe there is still something of worth inside of me, even though people hate me. Right?

You realize you're not alone at this point, which is really at that level.

Yes, absolutely. So getting deeper, I really, really had to change. I said, I want nothing to do with this behavior anymore, this addiction. I want to get rid of it. So I will go a level deeper beyond paying for this group, which was hard to pay for it. I said, I will use therapy. So I went through the stigma. I paid even more to use a therapist. And as I was talking to him, I discovered that, wait a minute, if I was a successful person with high values, religious, going to church, all those things, why would I turn to this addiction? And I learned that every behavior we do is based on an emotional need. And I started to learn about emotional pain. So I said, I wonder if I have emotional pain. And as I reflected, I remembered a story when I was 9 years old. I was in elementary school. We were playing a game of dodgeball. And here I was, a 9-year-old, finally starting to come up with an identity of myself, who I want to be. I want people to like me. I want people to feel proud of me. And I want to know that I'm good at something. Right. As I was throwing the ball against the other team, getting the other person out, I heard my teammates cheering for me, saying, "Ben, wow, you're good at this. We're going to win. Our team's going to win. This is great." And so I'm feeling excited, feeling good. Throw that ball, get the other person out, and we win. Our team wins. So I'm thinking, this is good. My identity feels awesome. I'm feeling happy. I feel like I belong and that I'm good at something. So we end the game and we're going to leave the gym and I find my friends and I say, I want to go celebrate with them. So I find the group and I say, hey guys, wasn't that a great game? Wasn't that awesome? But I find my friends laughing about something. They're saying, naturally, I want to be involved. So, hey guys, what's so funny? And they say, well, raise your arms. Okay. Confused, weird request, but I guess I'll play along. So I raise my arms and they laugh even harder. So now at this point I'm thinking, we were celebrating, I was feeling good, I was feeling like I belonged, but now they're laughing and potentially laughing at me. What's happening?

Right.

As I have my arms raised, I look down and I realize that I have extremely sweaty armpits. Now we might think, okay, you're playing a game of dodgeball, of course, right? Yeah. What's the big deal? But here I was, a 9-year-old boy, not fully understanding how the body works, and I must have been sweating a whole lot more than other people because otherwise why would my friends laugh at me.

So this is before people are sweating, you know, at that age.

Exactly, yeah. So when they laugh at me and they point at me and they say, "Ew, that's gross," "Ew, that's disgusting," what does my brain hear?

You are gross and disgusting.

That's exactly right. So that comment mixed with those emotions of shame, fear, and embarrassment— things that they don't necessarily teach in elementary school, nor do you want to feel— they get stuck with me. And I tell myself I never want to feel that way ever again. So I lived with that for 20 years. Nobody knew, not even my mom. I didn't tell her about the experience, and I carried that with me for 20 years because what definition did I carry with me? I said, wait a minute, when the moment I feel good and I belong is actually when people might laugh and they might discover something about me that I don't control and that I'm not proud of. So what I did to compensate is I hid behind what I call the shield of success. So I was good at everything, or everything that I did I was good at. Let's put it that way, right? And so I kept that facade. Ben's a leader. Ben's successful. Ben can do anything. Ben's amazing. I say yes. I much prefer that than allowing you to get any closer than arm's length and realizing I'm I am not the person you think I am. Right.

So as you grew up, you wanted to continue having success without letting them see your armpits, in theory, in that analogy, like, don't get too close to me. They might laugh at me. They might find something and I lose this image I have myself.

Yeah. So this carries through to the world of entrepreneurs, right? Every time we want to change, we have to change the way we see ourselves. For example, as I was in my HR executive position and I was going through this journey of therapy and self-discovery and saying, wow, I had no idea I was carrying this around. And I saw myself as this executive, but I hated executive, even to the point where I stopped telling my friends. I just said, yeah, I just do HR. I have to change. But reading books didn't change it. Going to seminars didn't change it. The strategies, the skills, like you mentioned at the beginning of this podcast, those didn't do it for me, even though I listened to all the gurus. What finally changed it for me was when I was in therapy and we were talking about this emotional pain, and I finally got the courage up to tell my therapist that story. And as I shared the story, he did not laugh at me. Which was important. And he said, I want you to imagine going back to this 9-year-old boy and taking him to a safe place and tell him, I want you to know that you just went through very— something very difficult and you have every right to feel the way that you do. But I want you to know that it is over, that you are loved, and that you're going to do amazing things in life. Now, I almost called him a liar when he told me that because I didn't feel that to be true at all. But as I told my little self that many times, I finally started to have a tiny hope of maybe it is true. And let me tell you, I went from seeing myself as the hated HR executive who was a failure because I had spent all these years building an identity that nobody likes, to finally through this process thinking, wait a minute, maybe I am a good person. Maybe I do have something to offer and maybe I am valued even if some particular people don't see that. So, because of that, now I had a dream since being very little to be an inspirational speaker. I loved coaching. I loved leadership. But there was zero hope of me becoming that because of this 9-year-old experience. But as I broke through this and I started to change the way I saw myself, it allowed me to, yes, leave my executive position, which is hard for many people. How do I change what I've been doing for years? How I set up my identity? How do I do that? How do I leave that?

Yep. Yep.

Well, you first change the way you see yourself, because then I could believe that, yes, I can be a speaker. I can speak on stages. People can ask me for help. And my expertise, and I can change.

What did you see yourself as to enable you to think that you can now speak on stages?

Yeah, so all started with a feeling. But as I was about to leave this position, I went to a conference, and as I listened to the speaker on stage, I had this massive tug inside my chest, and it said, why are you not on that stage? Now, if I had felt that tug before, I said, I'll tell you why, because my 9-year-old self. But because I had done this work, and I say, There's nothing wrong with me. I could do that. I can provide value. Yes, I have a message to share. I do see myself on that stage. And because it was so clear and so powerful, I said, I'm going to do whatever is necessary to make that happen, even leaving my executive position.

Nice. Nice. So off you went. And then what happened?

Yeah, I mean, so this was February of 2020. Good timing. I know.

Wait a second. Universe is telling me, oh my God, what another mind screw with you at that point.

Yeah, but it was totally fine because I was so confident in my new self that I didn't care.

I love it.

Yeah. So sometimes as entrepreneurs, if we have to reinvent ourselves or redefine ourselves as we're striving for the next level, you just have to be so sure of that identity first, then the results will follow. If I said I have to get on 30 stages in the next 2 months and I didn't, then I may have given up. But because I've known at a core identity that I am a speaker, that I am a coach, that I am worthy, then I can proceed through the ups and downs, the failures and so forth. But it has been the best transition I've done.

How did you see yourself as, as a coach, a speaker? Was it just more feeling you got when you saw others and you thought about yourself in that role?

Again, this relates to a lot of what people can feel. We always want to feel a certain way, and as we look at others, as we surround ourselves with others, we're always internally asking the question, could I be like that? Would I want to be like that? Would I want I want to be like that person. Okay? And so, yes, as I studied them and as I listened to them and I learned from them, I said, absolutely, I want to be like that. So it goes into the world of what people call imposter syndrome. Well, you're not that way, so how can you pretend? But really, that's how we have to start and say, I want to be that way, so I'm going to do what's necessary to become like that.

That's an interesting analogy because I have the belief— I went through this, a lot of others— that often we're doing things And maybe I'm kind of going down this path. I mean, certain self-discovery, if you will, is you go in there, you do the boxes, you get the job, you get the first job, you're in a career, you're an entrepreneur, you have an idea, you go build something, or you're just running a company and doing things and you realize, "Well, I'm good at it because I'm successful and I have the skills to go build something and I have that entrepreneur skill, but am I actually doing what I'm meant to be doing? Is this really my identity? Do I need to be doing this kind of stuff?" And you said something that's interesting, which is when you watch other people doing stuff and maybe you're in a role that something feels off, you see somebody else in that role on stage doing something similar, does that really pull you in? Or is it somebody else who's doing something else that speaks or does something that you're modeling and you're like, I'm being drawn to that person that you almost want to model them. You're almost not, I wouldn't say envious, but you have this feeling of like, I could be doing that too. I could teach that. I know these things. That should be me up there. Interesting signal. And I don't know how many of us actually think about that or really look for that signal and saying, wait a second, maybe you're doing the wrong thing right now. Should you be going over there? That's kind of what I caught from what you were saying. And I don't know if you meant that, but that's what I sort of, something that struck me as you were talking through that.

No, that's interesting. Now let me confirm before I go into it. Having been struck like that, do you find it as a thought that we should consider or that we shouldn't consider?

No, I think should. I think if you're finding yourself observing somebody else doing something, intuitively you're like, am I really happy doing what I'm doing right now? And you look over here and you're like, maybe grass is greener over here because I keep getting drawn. I don't know. Is it just the complex of an entrepreneur can't stay focused and thinks grass is always greener? Or is it like, I'm actually really being drawn over here and I resonate with that and that could be me and they see themselves being that person. I don't know.

I love this. This is where we get to the heart of what I've learned and experienced. We're going to start from this end, like the top end. Usually, this isn't the perfect age, but I've often watched people, you know, 58, 50 years plus, where they finally come to this realization. I've built an empire. I've made my millions. I've influenced so many people all over the world. But where's my fulfillment? Did I become the person that I wanted to? And then they turn to other things. So, here's what we all face. And I'm going to point out your language because we all speak this way. What I'm doing Okay. Versus who am I becoming? Now, it's unusual to talk that way. And because it's unusual, it's uncomfortable. And therefore we don't like to talk that way sometimes because it's like, who am I becoming?

I don't know. I don't want to talk about it. Right, right, right, right.

And so that's where the Eden model comes in. I'll make sure this episode has a link to the image of the Eden model so they can follow along.

And let's dig into the Eden model. What is the Eden model?

Yeah. Yeah. Because this is how you can, for yourself, diagnose where you are and then be able to flip it. So it's an image, it's a pyramid where results are at the top, identity is the base, the foundation. So let me walk everybody through it real quick. So there's results up top, behaviors, and I'm just going down. Results, behaviors, emotions, thoughts, beliefs, and identity. So let's use the example that we're talking about. Somebody's in a room listening to somebody else, feels kind of the tug to, hey, you should learn from that person. You should become a little bit more like what they're You know who that person is, but then we're stuck on, but I'm doing this. That's where we're so focused on results and behavior. And I'm just going to say $1 million. Okay. That's a nice round number in our business. If the result we're looking for is to earn $1 million, what are we going to do? Well, the list goes on all the behaviors you can try to get to earn $1 million. Now, if those behaviors leading us towards $1 million, how do we feel? We feel great. We feel like this is working. This is cool. Okay. And as you feel that way, what are you thinking? I'm just going down the model.

What are you thinking?

This is so cool. People People said this would work and it is working. That's amazing. I'm going to keep doing this. And then right below that is a belief. You know what? I think I can make this work. I think I can make a million dollars. This business is going to be successful. Therefore, your identity is, hey, I could become a millionaire. You know, like whatever. But notice how I did that. Everything is dependent upon the results. Now watch what happens if it's opposite and what does truly happen. Everybody listening knows this. You want to make a million dollars. You know the behaviors you should try, the strategies, the skills, the books, the webinars, the whatever the gurus say, and you're trying them. You're doing all the right things, putting in the hours, attending the groups, reading the books, but it's not working. Now how do you feel?

You feel like you question yourself, you question your ability to be successful. Am I doing the right thing? Am I meant to do this? Am I a failure?

Yes.

Can I ever get there? Maybe this is not for me.

There you go. So what you just illustrated, Eric— thank you— is as we're feeling those things, you immediately go down to identity. You skip everything else. Your thoughts and your beliefs are all about your identity. I don't know if I'm cut out for this. I don't know if I'm going to I don't know if this is for me. So we can resonate that this is true, correct? That's right. So all I did was put it into a model that we can see, because when we can see what's happening in the brain, then we can do something about it instead of getting lost in the spiral. That's what we define as stuck. I don't know how to change because I don't know where I am. I don't know who I am or who I want to be. Is this making sense?

Yeah. So let's go back to what you're teaching. So in that example, if you're failing, you're not hitting it, how do you get out of being the identity?

Of having that identity?

Well, I'm saying, so what are you teaching me, or for the person person that's not succeeding in that same example, I'm trying to hit the million, that's the result I want, I'm not doing it, my natural default is to put my identity.

Yes.

What's a better solution? Everything you hear on this show comes back to one idea, proximity. I wrote the book on it, literally. Proximity Pays, my best-selling book available now at proximitypays.com.

Good. So here's one very easy that everybody listening can do now. It's change your question. So the question we most often ask ourselves is what else should I be doing? Or how come this isn't working? Okay? Those are two very common ones. It's working for somebody else. Somebody else said it would work. How come it's not working for me? So, what do I do about this? But as long as you have those two questions, what's your brain going to do? It's going to give you all the reasons of why it doesn't work for you, or you're going to stress out because what else should I do? Try this, try this, try this, try this until you go nuts. But instead, if you follow the model, you don't ask about your behaviors, not even your emotions, your thoughts, your beliefs. Now, should we address those?

Sure.

But if you want to change everything, you change from the base. So, you change your questions about your identity.

Got it.

This is key, Eric. I'm going to go back to the question you posed. If you're in a group and you're doing, doing, doing, whether it's working or not, that's a different story, but you feel a tug, that's where you use the question of, "Who am I becoming and is that who I want to become?" Because it's such a core question and it's uncomfortable. It's unusual. Okay? But if you ask that question, then you'll know if the result is the right one for you. This is a key thing that you had asked me previously. What's the biggest mistake that people make when it comes to identity or the feeling of success is assuming it looks like that, or it looks like that, or it looks like that, right? Everybody looks outside of themselves, says, oop, that's success, that's what I want, right? Success is different for everybody.

That's right.

It has to be defined from inside, and it starts with who do you want to become, right?

And so, okay, so that's a good segue into, you know, the concept of so many successful people, you know, wake up one day, they think they hit the milestones, they have the cars, everything you talked about, and all of a sudden you hear this, you know, they're They're just midlife crisis could be one word you hear. They're just some things that they're just, you know, people look at them and say, how can this person not be happy? Why are they being so destructive? They've got the things, they got the family, the car, the this, that. So this, I imagine, has a lot to do with it. What you're talking about.

Yep. Because they don't know who they are outside of all that success or those results.

Okay. So dig in a little bit more for me. So somebody's being really successful from what somebody would view because the result, the perceived result is high. Happy. So, dig in, help me understand a little more. Their identity's off because why? Because they're doing something despite what they should feel like they really want to be doing, yet they— it's almost like success despite their true core. They still made it, they're not happy.

Yeah, let me give you an example to make it easier. One of the clients that I worked with, he came to me first as a director in a medical facility. So, on all accounts, pretty darn successful, making good money, managing people, and just doing his thing. But he first came to me saying, "I want to be promoted. I have this opportunity. I want to be promoted." Now, we could have talked about, "Well, here's how you fill out your resume. Here's the interview questions you can practice," and, you know, talk about all the behaviors. We could even say, "Well, here's how you can be confident. Here's the questions you can ask." That's thoughts and beliefs and emotions and so forth. But that does not change things until we talk about identity. Does he even see himself as a VP?

Mm.

And I checked his language. He said, "Well, my boss, who was the VP, left. I just don't know if I can ever be her." Well, as long as you have that thought, you're never going to get promoted because you don't want it. Your identity doesn't match with that.

Right.

Then as we did get him a promotion, he came back to me and he said, you know what? I've been having this tug, okay, to start a real estate business. And I'm interested. I want to start. How do I do that? So again, we could have just talked strategies. I could have given him books and blah, blah, blah. But first we had to align his identity with being in real estate. Could he do both? Or did he need to jump into one or the other? Now, getting one step deeper, because again, this happens to everybody. As we went through his more superficial identities of director, VP, and maybe real estate entrepreneur, he came to the emotional pain side of things, or his deeper identity that he doesn't want people to know about. Now, this isn't to say everybody has an addiction, but we can relate on how we feel and maybe something that we have carried with us. So, he finally came to me and he said, "Hey, I haven't told anybody this, but I'm an alcoholic. My dad was. I've been at this for years. I don't know what to do." do. So again, I could have said, hey, you know drinking's bad for you, and we could have talked about behaviors, we could have talked about recovery methods. But until, through coaching, I helped him change the way he talked about himself— he didn't call him an addict anymore, he said, I used to drink. Huge difference. Huge difference. Then he was able to say, I no longer drink, or I no longer turn to alcohol, versus I'm an alcoholic. Complete difference. Okay. So, when we're going through our journey, we have to make that deep shift and then everything else changes and he gets the results. So, back to your question, when somebody is super successful by all accounts and at the end of the day, they might commit suicide or they might be super unhappy and the world's like, "How is that even possible?" It's because how they saw themselves did not align with what they had and how they felt about it. It. So it's so important that we do the internal work first and along the way. Does that answer your question?

Yeah, it's almost what they've become to the outer world is now their self-fulfilling prophecy, and they're like, they're struggling with because that's not who they want to be, and they're just being—

exactly. Yeah, another thing, it's too late.

Yep. It's interesting. So I have two more things. One is I want to share— I think this is going to resonate, and I'm going to share a personal story because I think you'll like this, because I think I'm going through— you're helping me crystallize my But I think something was pulling me towards that. And then building things because I could do it. I could do anything. I just felt confident that I could do stuff, but not really understanding what lane I should be playing as an entrepreneur building stuff. Because you could go and say, hey, let me go buy a fast food franchise and I feel like I could be successful with it. But ultimately, is that my identity? Is that what I want to be doing is buying a bunch of franchises? I don't know. I struggle. Sure, I can go do anything. I can do it. Anything I've done, I can build. I'll work hard and I'll hit the boxes and I'll probably be successful. You know, most of my career after the first big startup was being an agency guy and back. And it's kind of a running joke with people running agencies is you don't wake up one morning and say, "Hey, I want to go run an agency." You kind of find your way into that because you're good at a skill and you do it. For me, I was never good at a specific quote marketing skill. I was more building a business skill and I happened to be a good generalist and I was really good at creating relationships, doing biz dev. And I'm partnered with the legendary Brian Tracy. I'm like, "Oh, this feels good. I'm with a guru." You know, feels successful, feels great to build it and running a company, with him and being in that world. But part of me was just like, so you said something interesting. I didn't want to be the guy on stage teaching marketing, going up there. That was not my identity. I didn't feel good about it. I was always struggling with that and feeling something off and not really in love and passionate about the inner workings. Although arguably, see, people would say, yeah, Eric is building a nice career. He's somewhat successful doing that. But really what shifted was me looking and saying, oh, this dinner group that I've been managing for 15 years that was right underneath my feet, that gave me a ton of joy when everybody came to me and said, Eric, what you've been doing here, there's something special and you should do this in other cities. And they kept talking about that. You know, I felt good about it. I was like, wow, it feels good and all that. But until I actually went for it and said, well, wait a second, this is what I actually really love to do. And I saw other community builders like your example, me seeing others doing it. Every time I go to an event, see a community builder, I'd be frustrated saying there's no reason why I shouldn't be doing that. And then until I finally made a leap and said, all right, I'm going after this. And now I feel like I'm truly in my lane. Lane. Yes, I'm struggling like tons and doing a lot of stuff and trying to do multiple things in my life right now, but it's like I know in my core that this is where I got to be and this is where the end of my path will be in this lane here. So you've had me thinking a lot as you're talking about the identities that I went through this entire journey to get to the point to being probably ultimately when I do get there and achieve the success by measurements of success, I think ultimately I'm going to be way happier because my identity is going to be attached to something that on the success side that I truly feel I belong. Yeah, I hope that made sense. You probably clearly understand what I'm talking about.

Oh, that's, that was powerful. You took us through the whole thing.

Yep. So that's a lot of what you teach, right? And I kind of, I stumbled out the hard way. Like, I look back and I always say, you know, and I wish I had met you earlier because it's like, you know, what do you want to hear? The question, what's one of your life's regrets? What do you wish you did more of? What would you teach your kids? I'm like, and I say it differently, I say, you know, figure out the sandbox you enjoy and try to figure out a way to play in that sandbox. Otherwise, you're in the wrong sandbox spending a lot of energy in the wrong area of life. So how do you find the, the lane you should be driving in. Yeah, that's the words you use, but that's kind of, kind of a little bit of what I discovered finally.

Very powerful. Can I ask you a few follow-up questions?

Absolutely.

Yeah. First, when you had this feeling about the dinner group and you're like, you know, I don't want to be on stage, but I love this dinner group thing, at the time, did you know how to take it to multiple cities across the U.S.?

No. And we did this for years. I had my own imposter syndrome of organizing this group and would I— would it be valuable to others and how do I make people keep up. And these people are all bigger names and more powerful, more successful than me. And what the hell, you know, what do they— me, I'm lucky to be in this room, like, kind of thing.

There you go. Okay, so I'm pointing this out because you made it clear to me we want to make sure this podcast gives people something they can take away with, right? Take something away with. So your language was all about identity. Okay, you got stuck in that. I don't know what to do because I'm stuck in how I feel, and I'm stuck in how I feel compared to other people. The moment you said, yes, this is me, you made it happen, and it did. Here's what else I want to point out, which is super cool. Everybody listening can tell the energy that you had when you were telling me about when I was with Brian Tracy, when I was doing this. See the emotions? And then you're like, you know what, but about this dinner idea, that's cool. And see, you're smiling now.

Yeah.

And this is what I sense about people. I know where they want to be, and I know if they're there because how they— of how they talk. Everybody knows what the, the tug is. It's just a question of, are you aligning yourself to it or not, right?

Yep. No, I love it. And I think you're right. I think my identity was— it took a while. And then it was only until people kept coming to me and saying, hey, what you're doing here. And the ironic thing, it wasn't even— it wasn't my group necessarily. I was just the organizer. You know, I was just one of 5. We were all equals. But ultimately, I became the de facto leader of it because I took the reins until it's going. And it was like, okay, I'm going to build this thing out. And so because it was the passion, I think my identity grew as people started attaching this became Eric's group and Eric was leading it. And all of a sudden, and they loved me for it and they loved how I was leveling up their lives and the feelings that I was bringing to them. I'm like, wait a second, I'm providing immense value to these amazing high-level individuals and they appreciate what I was doing. And I was getting joy from doing that. And it was something that felt natural and easy for me and joyous. So, so that's cool.

Is it? So my book is called How We See Ourselves. And often, like in your example, people already saw you this way. But at the time you didn't because you were stuck in some emotions and some self-identity, right? And then another tool I want to give people that you just illustrated is, how do I know who I want to be? Okay, because we will always act in alignment with the way we see ourselves, right? We'll come back to it or we'll change. So here are some things that we can do now. We can go talk to our 5 closest friends, family members, business partners, whatever, and you can just ask them a few questions or think through these things. Number 1 is One is, to your point, if you watch somebody do something and you're frustrated because you think it can be done better, that is a strength of yours. Then you can talk to your friends, "Hmm, what about this?" The other is, to your point, what people see that you're good at and who do they see you as? When you hear that, you should listen.

Yeah.

Okay? Now be careful. You don't want to listen to the negatives, but be careful to, or, you know, pay attention to what people are saying. And the final is, if you consider something common sense, "Well, doesn't everybody do that? I mean, it's not a big deal that I lead these groups across the US," and saying, "You know, whatever," that's another strength of yours.

Course, right?

Okay. So those 3 are signs that say, wait a minute, maybe I should pay more attention to this because there's already something there. Then the next step is aligning how you see yourself with that. Is that making sense?

Totally. And I'm going to double down on one thing you said because I reflect on that a lot too. And I'll share again, I'll share my story if it helps because we're doing storytelling. Is that you said something you're good at. Can I share this all the time? The things that I am naturally good at feels easy to I didn't think it was a big deal. Like, wait a second, why are people giving me credit for just organizing this dinner and doing this stuff? And I realized in hindsight, I'm like, Eric, this is easy for you because you're good at it. You know, you're actually wrangling entrepreneurs and following up with them. I've later discovered how crappy most entrepreneurs are on follow-through and organizing and doing all these things. And I'm like, well, wait a second, this is something that makes— puts me in a different area and I love it and I'm good at it. And people were commending me for that and appreciating that. I'm like, and I just took it for granted because it was so obvious and easy for me. And it was, and now after discovering personality types and all that and seeing that I'm in a rare personality type for a certain type of person, I'm like, okay, well, I should look at that as you just said it. That's a signal that we probably often always overlook. And so I'm glad you said that. I just wanted to double down because I felt that too. So yeah, interesting. Yeah. Well, really cool. And those are some good tips. And what I like about what you said is that none of this is rocket science. I think you're just, it's almost like taking a step back and just observing and asking certain questions and looking from a different reference. Like you said, looking within, going to your surroundings. I remember doing some fun exercises like this in my EO, my Entrepreneur Organization Forum, similar things too, where it was almost like you had people, it was a fun exercise where everybody talked about your strengths and what they admire about you. And then there was some blind spot stuff too, like what is Eric? And it was good. It was more constructive feedback on the other side, but it was interesting because you're right. When you have that exercise and you ask those that you care about what you're good at, and it does give you a little bit of a clue, and I think you should listen to that is what you're teaching and you're reminding us of today.

Absolutely. And I'll add this because what may be going through people's minds right now is, okay, but how do I change? I feel like I should do something different because I'm recognizing the tug, but the world is hard to conquer sometimes because most conversations are, what do you do and how are you doing at it?

Right?

How do I change from, oh, I have this going on to I really want to build this, but my network might think this is who I am. I mean, there's a lot to deal with. But instead of conquering the world, I mean, this is back to the Stephen Covey principles, right? What's inside your circle? Well, go inside your circle and look at who you are and who you want to be and say, you know what, I can do this because onto your next step, this is breakthrough to the next level or it's breakthrough to a different level. Okay? But it all starts with those quiet moments and saying, no matter what the result is, no matter what I'm doing, who is it that I want to become? Let me put myself out 12 months from now, 10 years from I'm doing now. And if I look back, do I want to say I struggled for 10 years to make $1 million? Maybe I even made $10 million, but who am I? Am I happy with that? That's more successful than some dollar amount or some other success metric. Right.

And that's the ultimate, because if you could achieve all the— how are you going to measure it? The financial and all the other successes you want, which obviously there's financials, a piece of it, but it's having the happy life, the family, the—

all right.

And do it in the area that you're identified to be in doing it, I would imagine that's probably the utopia of success. And I want to hear a couple of case studies or stories of that. Like, what's a good examples of people you know, have you worked with that have achieved the right successes in their identity that they should be playing at?

Yeah, well, I know people have different opinions about all successful people, but I'll just give this example with Tony Robbins.

Okay.

He teaches the science of success and the art of fulfillment. Now you can follow a lot of people's stories and some very, very successful people. If you know their backstory, you know, they're bankrupt. They turn to addictions, they're divorced, I mean, their family's in shambles and everything else. But the people who are able to have success on a resume standpoint and fulfillment are those who can have a strong family and a strong health and strong finances and give back to the world. Okay? The problem exists when we're successful in one of these areas, but everything else is in shambles, then you don't have fulfillment. And when that one pillar falls, falls, you crumble.

Right.

Love it. So really, I mean, that's what the Brené Browns teach. That's what a lot of the big people on stage teach when they get to a point. I was super successful and I sold this business and then I realized what's most important.

That's right. You hear that all the time. That's right. Well, cool, Ben. So how do you work? Just, I mean, this is fascinating and I hope for those that are listening get inspired and think through this, but they need some extra coaching to help them get there. I mean, tell me a little bit about how people could work with you.

Yeah, absolutely. So these are 90-day coaching packages because it's enough time to go deep and to have you see success quickly.

All right.

Then, of course, we can translate it into a year. But we have those coaching sessions where we can go deep on your story. As you saw what I did with you, Eric, I quickly pick up on your language and we can make immediate shifts. You had shifts in how you saw yourself and how you thought today. True?

Yep.

Yeah. So that is what happens when people work with me in that coaching environment.

Love it. All right. We'll have all the info for Ben in the show notes and the link. And all those things. Plus Glenn's got some great stuff he's always going to be giving away. So you could check his things out in the links below. Is there any questions that I didn't ask that I should have?

Ooh, that is a great question. I'll answer this because this is my personality. Well, can't I just do this on my own? As with anything, sure. It just depends on your speed and type of results that you want. Some of the tools that we gave today, I encourage you to do right now. You can do a lot of them today. You can even say, you know, I'm just going to do this for the next 12 months and you will see results if you are are intentional about it. But really, the big difference comes when you work with somebody who can help challenge those thoughts or can help point out, wait a minute, maybe that belief isn't serving you anymore. And then we can change how you see yourself.

Love it, love it. I totally agree with that. So appreciate that. And definitely reach out to Ben, great guy. I've heard amazing things. Last question I have for you, Ben, is it's been almost a year you've been an amazing Speakeasy Mastermind member. Tell us about your experience and what are you loving about Speakeasy so far?

You know, I love this question. It's not that I'm not honest, but I'm very, very passionate about this answer. Okay, here's why. I've tried to find the right circle for me. I've tried to find a lot of masterminds, networking groups, trying to build my business and so forth. I have just never felt like I belonged until this one.

Wow.

Okay, from the very beginning, as I told you before, I manifested this year and I said I want to surround myself by successful givers. And a friend I knew from a podcast a few years ago, he posted on Facebook and he says, hey, I'm part of this Mastermind of Successful Givers. And I was like, ding, ding, ding, there's the pull, right? And I went to the meeting, felt great about it. And I said, I just need to do this. And from the very beginning, I have felt like I belonged, that I'm valued, that I have value to give and all the important things about belonging. So I'm not focused on results or comparison or what's going to happen from this group, like exists in many other groups. At the same time, my results have increased like crazy already.

Ready.

Nice. Because it helps me change the way I see myself. So I'm very, very grateful for this group, Eric.

Wow, thank you so much for those kind words and appreciate doing it. And it's— and, and really, it's all— I see myself as the, the grand facilitator and hopefully being a magnet for amazing people like you because it just lifts everybody up together. So, well, appreciate the time today. I know how busy you are, and, uh, thank you so much for the time and sharing some amazing words of wisdom. And I'll be thinking, having some good thoughts all through the night tonight and probably the next couple weeks. So appreciate you and I'm looking forward to heading back out there. I gotta get back out to the area and visit you guys soon.

That'd be great. Thank you, Eric.

And that's a wrap from the Speakeasy Podcast. If something sparked for you, don't keep it to yourself. Share it, review it, and pass it to the one person who needs to hear this right now. Want in on the Real Mastermind? Tap the link in the show notes to apply. Until next time, keep scaling, stay sharp, and don't be the smartest one in the room. Hello, I've been noticing you've been following along to Inside the Speakeasy Mastermind Podcast, and the conversations I'm having out there resonates with you, then I'd like to invite you to apply to learn more about becoming a member of Speakeasy Mastermind.