Why Nobody Cares About Your Followers (But They'll Pay for Your Authority)

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Some people, they're afraid of losing their job. Mine was I was afraid of getting a job because I've been working for myself since I was 18. I'm a horrible employee because I'm so used to doing things a certain way. So I'm like, I got to figure this out. So I decided to write my book. I had a big publishing deal with Chicken Soup for the Soul at the time. And then I remember I was struggling to finish writing the book, and my mentor at the time, Mark Victor Hansen, he said, stop thinking of who your book is going to help and start thinking of who it's going to hurt if you don't finish it.

So many of you listening have an incredibly, incredibly Powerful story or message that is inside of you, it's burning and you have not figured out the way and how to get it out or what to even do with it or if anybody would even care, but you know it's burning, you know it has power. So today's the day. I'm so excited to bring on Melanie Warner, who's going to talk to us about how to get that message out and also tell us what's arguably more important than being the smartest person in the room or having an amazing business or what some of the people that are missing, what they need. And honestly, it's just being perceived as one of the biggest authorities out there in your space and how to get that message to help you become that authority. So we all need this. I'm excited. I just went through this myself and I'm super pumped. You know, Melanie Warner is a bestselling author, Forbes contributor, TV producer, and founder of Defining Moments Press, where she helps entrepreneurs, CEOs, and experts turn their knowledge into authority, media exposure, and high-ticket clients. She's known for her 7-Figure Book Method. She teaches business leaders how to leverage books, podcasts, stages, and television to become the go-to to authority in their industry. She's also the producer of the PBS television show Recipe for Wellness, airing in 240 million households, and has helped experts build brands that create both impact and income. Her clients have generated over $150 million from her authority process. Wow, wow, wow. So excited to have you today. Welcome, Melanie.

Thank you so much for having me, Eric. I love being here. I love your group. I had so much fun getting to hang out with you in person in San Diego and meet so many of your amazing friends. Just being in the room with people that are doing life and business at a whole other level. It's just so much fun. So thank you for all that you do as well.

Yeah, well, well, thank you. That's kind of you. I appreciate it. So you've been in media for 30 years, and what is the biggest sort of misconception for, you know, entrepreneurs have about what it really takes to get attention and how to keep it? How does one become an authority and why is that so important?

Well, it's more important today because it's more about global authority. You know, a lot of people could dominate a market. It's called like, you know, being the small fish in a big pond. So it's kind of easy to dominate a smaller market. Where you live and people know you, it's easier to build trust and authority. I owned city regional magazines for a long time. So we were able to build somebody into like the Dr. Oz of their hometown, you know, on a fairly regular basis, but then they would outgrow the market. And people think attention is the goal, but trust is the goal. And especially nowadays where you've got so much competition, it's not about being the generalist, right? Think about how you have a general practitioner who has to have this broad knowledge of humans and like just from a medical perspective. And they have 1,500 to 1,800 patients by demand, they can't possibly go deep and actually really help people. And so when you're a specialist, people take off work, they spend months waiting to meet with you. You have this instant authority. Even the generalists will refer a specialist. So if you want to become a global authority, you really need to specialize in something, especially in today's busy, crowded economy. And there's a trust recession going on, which we know all about. And people think that Building— a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that building visibility is about getting more followers, but you really can't deposit followers in your bank account. I don't know if you know that. A lot of people think emotions— I'm like, emojis are not real emotions. So being viral does not necessarily mean being profitable because a lot of influencers, you know, think about the people you know that have millions of followers. A lot of them are totally broke. They don't know how to monetize platforms. So authority compounds, whereas attention fades, and entrepreneurs can use noise with positioning, but attention can make you famous, but authority makes you wealthy.

I love that. Thank you for saying that. You're right. It's a big mess to the ego too, right? People are out there thinking, oh, I got all these followers and everybody loves me. And all of a sudden they're just like, if I just do this, this, and if I just give it more time, the money will follow. And yet they're not an authority. So therefore, big, big difference. And I think you nailed it. So let's kind of work backwards. Like, what does that mean in your definition to be an authority?

Well, there's a very specific framework of how authority can monetize. So you start with authority, which equals proximity plus proof move, plus positioning, and then repetition. So it's being able to get your message out to a lot of people, but it's more about that visibility issue, because a lot of people think, oh, I'm just going to go on Good Morning America, or I'll do a TED Talk or something. But if they don't know how to monetize those platforms, then it's kind of like you've got this lead, you've got this bucket, and you've got holes in it. So people are flowing through it, but they're not ascending into becoming a client. So when you add authority and you add visibility with branding assets like books and media and stages. It adds third-party credibility and you get a chance to own a category, right? Russell Brunson talks about being a category king or queen, and the market pays more attention for perceived certainty than raw talent.

Interesting. God, I love how you're saying that. So, right, so they just know because you're a specialist and you're authority, there's an implied assumption that, that you're going to get the result.

Yeah, especially if you wrote a book on something, then people automatically assume you're an expert because you wrote the book on it.

Right, right.

I made the mistake of writing books years ago and I didn't have those credentials. I didn't know that people would see me as an expert on that subject. I mean, it kind of seems like silly to not know that now, but when I went through the process, it was more about just creating this asset that I thought was going to help people. But I left millions of dollars on the table by not understanding the authority that that created.

Okay, so let's talk about the authority pieces that we could have. You mentioned there's a book, you mentioned being on the local TV show. Like, you obviously teach these frameworks and help your clients do that. What are— the most important things we need to be thinking about in order to become an authority?

Well, a lot of people, especially business hosts, are leading away from their story because they think, oh, I can't share anything vulnerable because that's weakness in business. But it's actually the opposite now because there's such a trust recession. Transparency and vulnerability create authenticity and connection, and that's like a new currency. And this is where a lot of people fail in their personal brand. That if you think about it, Elon Musk has more followers than any of his companies, so it's his personal brand that makes people want to do business with those actual brands. Like, we joke and say you can't invite a brand over for dinner, so you wouldn't just invite Tesla, but you want to get to know the person behind the company. A commercially powerful story includes something that creates an emotional connection when you hear their stories. Like, I remember reading an article about Elon Musk several years ago. I think it was in Esquire, and he was talking about this heartache and heartbreak that he had about the girl that got away. It's not something you would have expected him to be vulnerable about, and it really intrigued me about him as a person because I saw him as finally somebody that was human and not like just this— he was a solar guy back then, and this was right when Tesla was coming about. And I thought it was a very vulnerable article that really made me think differently about him as a high-powered CEO because I saw him as more human who had a heart broken, right? It established credibility. It made me curious about him as a person. It also helps solve a very high-value problem. So when you're talking to from authority perspective and storytelling, you're, you're getting people's attention. Like when we do our TV show or a podcast about defining moments, we share a defining moment in somebody's life or business, and it makes the audience see them in a vulnerable way. And then it leads to what they're doing now in their life, which gives them that authority piece. And this positions the person as the guide, right? We talk about Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey, where every story needs a hero, a trusted guide, and a villain. And so that story naturally lends itself for you to be the trusted guide as the authority piece. And it leads naturally into an offer, which we always recommend have a good high-ticket offer on the back end of your story. And my own story has a lot personally, and I know a powerful story doesn't just connect emotionally, it changes buying behavior. And so by sharing these parts of us that we think in business, oh, we can't do that, right? Like, I remember having a doctor who wanted to do an ad years ago in one of our magazines, and he wanted to put his his face out there with his beady eyes and his mask with a syringe because that's what he does. And I'm like, nobody's gonna do that. Nobody's gonna respond to that. And he thought that was building credibility and authority as a doctor. But I'm like, you are going to terrify people and they're not gonna like you. And so sometimes people get so caught up in trying to just be authoritative that they forget to tell the personal story that makes them more human.

Very, very interesting. Okay, well, there's a lot to unpack there. I want to get to your personal story, which is just tough. I mean, I read it, I'm like, wow. And you wove story into my question, which I love. So whether whether it's a book or getting on a show, you said, well, it really starts with the story and being vulnerable, you know, because that'll help get you to the authority place. Once you have that story figured out and you can weave that in, is it usually a book as a first sort of stepping stone in anything? Is that what you want to see if we're all trying to go down this path to eventually become the trusted authority that has the story out there and the vulnerability?

Well, I think this is where a lot of entrepreneurs get visibility wrong, right? Because the idea is, you know, people go out and they just start posting endlessly with no strategy. They're trying to be everywhere. And I know it feels overwhelming. I feel that way too sometimes, and I'm like, I don't want to be on X fighting with people. I don't want to dance on TikTok. I'm a horrible dancer, right? They try to do generic branding. There's a lack of differentiation, so you don't stand out as an actual specialist, and then you're chasing algorithms instead of building assets. But when you actually create what we call income-generating assets, which means a book, a book funnel, which becomes the marketing vehicle to help get people to ascend into your offer as an authority figure, then all of those things start to become branded assets and building your personal story, but also creating it in a way that when you take it out there and put it on a podcast or you're featured on TV or radio, then it makes it easier for people to follow you and ascend into a high-ticket offer or a funnel.

So yes, I imagine a common thing you hear is the imposter syndrome. Do I have it in me? Why do people want to hear from me? Is my story really that good? Is it really that moving? I like what you said earlier. Well, first of all, what are you a specialist in? What are you different and unique?

I was gonna say, I hear that a lot. People are like, who am I to write a book? You know what And I hear this a lot too. People say, though, that kind of book's already out there. Well, guess what? I have this book called Think and Grow Rich, right? It came out almost 100 years ago. I still read it every day. It's still relevant. And these are authority builder books. These are thought leader ideas that are going to transcend and become a legacy for us, right? If we do it right, all of our books are going to outlive us. And it becomes a way for people to like what we want to be known for. And so many people, especially entrepreneurs, they're out there renting attention on social media instead instead of owning authority assets. Because once you build and create these assets, they literally become income-generating assets, not just as a product like a book. You can sell your book. As a speaker, you can speak for free, but you can actually sometimes monetize the backend better if you're not getting paid to speak because you can sell books, you can promote something, you can do joint venture partnerships and affiliate relationships with people on a stage. And so most people don't realize the value of their authority, especially if they worked for somebody else. You know, I have a friend that worked a global director for 32 years at the same company, and they invested over $1 billion with a B in his brain. And when he retired, I'm like, it is kind of selfish to retire with all that knowledge when there are so many people out there that don't know, they don't have the same authority, and they're willing to pay you to learn a faster path. If you can compress time and teach somebody everything you know about logistics or in that specialty, that high-level specialty industry, there are competitors of that previous company you worked for that would pay millions of dollars. And as a result, he went out and did a consulting deal with somebody who paid him $800,000 for the first year, which was 3 times what he was making as an executive for the same knowledge.

It's crazy. So is it just a matter for those of us, self-included, I was that person until somebody pulled that out of me. Is it just a matter of finding somebody like yourself that understands, or a coach that says, look, you have that story in you, like, let's talk about it. What are you good at? Like, there is something magical and helping bring that to life a little bit. Is that I imagine you do that a lot with your clients.

I do. I find that it is much tougher sometimes to take somebody who's been trading dollars for hours, right, to see themselves as an authority because they've been so beat down to be paid as an employee for so many years. They don't value their own expertise and they tend to value specialized, like they tend to value knowledge from like a formal perspective of going to school and where they graduated from and there's nothing wrong with formal education, but it doesn't always equate in the marketplace.

That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

And so when you invest in yourself to learn these skills, and I've spent way more money, I'm sure you have too, investing in myself as a business owner than I ever would have going to college. Just my college degree, it's like you never stop learning. And they say that leaders are readers. So when you look, there's a correlation to the people that make the most amount of money and how many books a year they read. I need to look at the people that have a smaller income that don't read many books, and it's a really interesting correlation. So if you want more high-end clients and you write books for them that solve problems for premium people that are willing to pay a fee to solve something, then you're naturally not only going to position yourself better as an authority, but you're going to write the book that they want to read, not just the book you want to write.

Right. Love it. Okay. So let's talk about story and how you got here, because there's just amazing lessons you're teaching, and you've had quite an interesting, very traumatizing background and your story is just mind-blowing how you're able to come out of what you came out with to get to where you are today. And I think it's important for the listener to hear the story. So tell us a little bit about where you started in business and then ultimately the tragic story and how you came out of that.

Thank you. I appreciate that. I've been working for myself since I was 18 and I worked really, really hard from the time I was 18 all through my 20s into my 30s, owning businesses, building media companies, you know, trying to conquer the world. And there was a point where I literally had everything. I was married, I was making $1 million a year, I had a business, I had employees. I felt like I had finally arrived and I had a couple of kids. And I remember looking in a drawer one day and I found a bucket list that I had written when I was 18 years old of all the crazy things I wanted to do in my life. And when I started looking at that bucket list, everything that I thought would take a lifetime to do was marked off except for one, which was write a book. And a week later, I found myself in the hospital after an accident, and I was on the gurney, and the doctor looked at me and said, "This is life-threatening, and you might not make it." And I literally was bleeding out. I lost over 80% of the blood in my body. I came about— later I found out about 90 seconds away from dying. And what I had thought of immediately in that split second when they say your life flashes before your eyes, it was so true, Eric.. I remember thinking, did I manifest this? Because I found that bucket list that I wrote when I was 18, and my 18-year-old self said, things I want to do before I die. And then I found the list just a week earlier and marked everything off. So there was nothing left on the list except one item. And my first thought was, did I manifest this? Did I actually create this? This was happening right now. And, you know, what about my family? What about my laundry? Like, all the unfinished business. And then what about that book? I never got to finish writing a book. And I had this sense of panic of like, I really, I can't die. I have things unfinished in my life. And luckily I survived. Unfortunately, a few days later, my son did not survive. And I held my son as he took his last breath. And as a parent, it was my worst nightmare. There was nothing that prepared me for it. I went into this dark spiral. Even though I survived, I couldn't deal with this grief. And so So I shut down. I was married at the time. My husband shut down. We both dealt with grief differently. And then I learned that there's a whole process of what happens when a child dies. And that was what prompted this first book that I wrote called Defining Moments: Coping with the Loss of a Child, right? And so I realized at that moment, I didn't know how to deal with any of this. And it's in the 90s, like 90+ percent of people get a divorce after they lose a child. Well, I shut down so hard, I lost everything. I had spent 16 years in a marriage that crumbled, 20 years building a business that was basically gone overnight. There was also the recession that was happening. So it was just kind of like all my parachutes failed. I had two homes, I lost both into foreclosure. I went through bankruptcy. I went through tax audits. I even had to go to tax court and represent myself in federal tax court and prove that I didn't owe the money that I was accused of owing. And at one point I was negative $3.6 million in debt. And I finally found a solution that I said, I have to rebuild my life. I can't just go get a job. Like, there's no job that's going to pay enough to get me out of this hole. So to try to wake up every day and deal with the grief, the loss, feeling like the biggest loser on the planet, like, who's ever going to listen to me again? Like, talk about authority. I thought, there is no way I'm ever going to be able to— I can't even help myself. How can I be in self-help in this industry? Like, I felt like the biggest hypocrite, right? And so I told myself so many lies at that time, like, I'm never gonna love anybody again because it hurts too much. I'm never gonna be an authority again. No one's ever gonna take me seriously. You know, all these things that weren't true but felt like the end of the world at the time. And so when I finally realized I have to figure out a way out of this hole, because now I'm a single mom, I had 3 kids, and I had to figure out how to make money, and I had to do it quickly. And I knew some people, they're afraid of losing their job. Mine I was afraid of getting a job because I've been working for myself since I was 18. I'm a horrible employee because I'm so used to doing things a certain way and I love being an entrepreneur and, you know, it's an up and down, as you know, it can be like this all the time, but that adrenaline drives me. So I'm like, I gotta figure this out. So I decided to write my book and I wrote my first book and I had a big publishing deal with Chicken Soup for the Soul at the time. And then I remember I was struggling to finish writing the book and my mentor at the time, Mark Victor Hansen, he said, said, "Stop thinking of who your book is going to help and start thinking of who it's going to hurt if you don't finish it." Well, the next day, a woman in my hometown stepped in front of a train and took her own life because her son had passed away 15 years prior. And I felt horrible. I didn't know her, didn't know her son, but I knew her pain and I knew that I had a resource of hope for people. And so, I decided at that moment, I'm going to be a hope dealer because we got enough dope dealers, right? And so everything I did from that day forward was about trying to help give people hope when they were struggling with something, giving them resources like books, mentorship, even courses, like things to help people get through it. And I went back to my other mentor, Tony Robbins, at the time. And I'm like, how do I help these people? Right? Because even though my book came out, I didn't feel like an authority. And I definitely wasn't a grief coach. And so people started asking me, hey, you wrote the book on this, you're the authority, can you fix me? Can you help me get through this pain, and I still felt like an impostor because I still was trying to rebuild my life at that point. And so I took a course from Tony called Strategic Intervention where I learned very specific tools to help me heal myself first. It empowered me, and I was able to become a master life coach and a business coach within like 8 to 12 weeks or something. And I felt more confident having these tools and then learned I could actually charge people to to teach them the tools and walk them through the steps of what I went through and actually help people find that, that peace and healing for themselves. So became a grief coach for a little bit of time and released the book. And the book came out, but not with them. In the middle of all this, they sold their company. So my procrastination— now I lost this poor lady who could have benefited from the book because my insecurity and fear and doubt literally cost somebody their life. And then I waited so long, they sold their company, and then the book went along with with it. And then I went through another major publisher, took another 2 years, the book was out. Then finally, that's when people started calling me and saying, can you help me? But even after all of that, Eric, I got paid zero from that publisher to this day. Not one dime for my books that were sold. And so another 2 years went by and I got the rights back to my book and then started self-publishing. And within a few weeks, I became a number one bestseller. I was able to rebuild my entire life, and I learned how to put an offer on the back end of a book and start building the funnel. And I went from negative $3.6 million to positive $4 million in 18 months after all of that. And so, talk about the price you pay to learn what you know. And I just want to shorten that process for a lot of other people who don't want to go through all of that just to learn what I know.

Amazing. Thank you for sharing that. Wow. What a story. And so sorry about your loss.

And thank you.

You did get your book done. So, that's the positive of it and rebuilt your career and have all these things. And so, good for you for just having that tenacity and drive And I think the story in that, as we talked about from the beginning of this call, is I think even you're saying is, what am I an expert in? I mean, you essentially just, you found it, you had the imposter syndrome along the way, you got that push in the back, but from Mark Victor Hansen, and it's a similar conversation. I think we all need to think about that. So how do you kind of just turning topics a little bit, thinking in today's world where anyone can claim they're an expert, how do you build real credibility that that people trust and are willing to pay for? Is it just, great, I wrote a book? I mean, and now, you know, let me add more and more to that question. With AI where it's headed, and I know there's this concept of, well, people are going to be able to read through what is an AI book and, hey, I'll just use AI to do my book and now I'm an expert. So talk me through that topic a little bit. Everything you hear on this show comes back to one idea, proximity. I wrote the book on it, literally, Proximity Pays. My best-selling book available now at proximitypage.com.

If you've ever asked AI, tell me about your childhood, it's pretty interesting answers, right?

Wow.

And so in the face of AI, it's really fascinating to see how story, human stories and emotions are still more powerful. I am an advocate of AI. I do believe it has a purpose. We don't, in our company, we don't usually use it just to write the book. It's more a research tool. I do believe that if you and AI partner together, you're going to write a better book than either one of you on your own. But I don't think it's something that should just be hands-off. And here's why. One of the reasons I got asked to write for Forbes— because I, I'm an experienced business owner since I was 18 years old. I'm also a journalist. And when a journalist writes a story, they're looking at it through a different lens. And so a journalist— like, it's interesting, the people writing as journalists for a lot of these big publications and media platforms aren't actually entrepreneurs, right? Because they're journalists. They're employees at this organization. And, you know, AI can give you a perspective from somebody, but they're not going to give you the experience. And it's hard to, like, explain something. Like, what I went through in my life is not something that I can explain. I had to experience it in order to gain the credibility and authority that I have today. And my life literally had to fall apart for it to come together before I realized that I'm more valuable having been broken and putting those pieces back together in the world of business than if I had never had any hardship at all. I didn't see that at the time when I going through. But looking back, I can connect the dots so much better. So what editors and producers are really looking for today, and it gives you kind of the insider status, they want clear positioning, they want transformation, they want stories about transformation where you get to interview actual business owners, not just like repackage or repurpose a story from the Associated Press or a PR stunt. They want something that shows tension and shows how somebody had to work through. And what's working in the business space is sharing these failures and being open and transparent about, hey, this is my biggest screw-up that led to like the everything where my life fell apart, that I thought my life was over, is directly related to the success I'm having today.

You want the vulnerability and the transparency once the other people— yeah, because it's more relatable to say the people like— not everybody's who succeeds 100% of the time, right? Nobody. So we have to have those stories to be believable.

Absolutely. And so when you can offer a unique perspective and you're a specialist and you have the case studies and the background, it makes you more of an authority naturally. But when you're also a bestselling author who literally wrote the book on that subject, people see you, perceive you as the expert. I mean, there's like Jesus and bestselling author, and then all of a sudden you have— and you know because you just experienced this— like all of a sudden people look at you differently, like, oh, you're Eric Berman who wrote that book, you know. And at the same time, your speaker fees go up, your authority goes up, your credibility goes up instantly. You make more as a consultant, you start getting requests for media. In fact, if you are— for most journalists, 80% of the time they will choose somebody that's a bestselling author on the subject. The same for case studies, for court cases, when they're looking for an expert witness, they're looking for people that are bestselling authors in that field. And they use that as a way to measure their credibility of whether or not they're going to be an expert witness in a court case. And they pay for that kind of stuff. So it's leveraging your expertise in multiple ways. And the other thing is, if you're going to write articles, It's different between having yourself featured in PR, being on a podcast, but when you're going to be a journalist and write these stories as an authority figure in your space, that's an even higher level because you need to offer a very unique perspective. You already need to have that credibility and you need to make sure that your voice is relevant in a crowded marketplace. This is not about being a motivational entrepreneur because nobody in media is looking for just another expert. They're looking for a trusted voice with a very specific, distinct point of view.

Okay, let me kind of wrap this up because I love what saying here, kind of put a tie, a bow on some of the things you're saying. So I'm getting the authority side. I get my book done. You have the funnel. All these pieces come together. What's next? You mentioned media and all these things. What's like the next lowest hanging fruit that you work with your clients on or you see people? You said, you mentioned you could, your speaker fees could go up. So what do you see as easy low-hanging fruit for people that want to go through this path?

There are 4 critical steps that I recommend and it took me so many years to do this the wrong way. It's kind of like trying to surf without the right equipment. You're just tumbling around in the water. And I see people make this mistake every day. Really smart people, they do things out of order. So step 1, you've got to define what are you an authority at, like what is your level of expertise, who are you helping, how are you helping them, what does that process look like, what are you charging them. So that step 1 is really just being clear on that piece of I'm an expert in this space and here's who I help. So define that expertise and whatever offer. Step 2 is then write a book around that expertise and Your book basically introduces people to your system that is proprietary to you, to the steps and the tools that are specific to your experience and background and expertise. And then the third step is then build a book funnel around that book. And then the fourth step is visibility. Now, if you try to do visibility without the other three pieces in that order, you know, like I said, going on Good Morning America, doing a TED Talk, you don't make money when you just get on these platforms. And so many people make that mistake. Even if they're paid speakers, they get on a big stage and they get a standing ovation, but they leave money on the table because they don't have these other authority pieces on the backend. And so there's a couple of things, other framework I would recommend. Just be, number one, be really clear on the problem. Have a very clear outcome so people know what is the result that you're offering people. Have a unique methodology. You want to have an emotional connection by sharing your story with people. You need proof like social proof, testimonials, case studies, and then you need premium positioning. And that is really kind of the, the core elements and the framework of a 7-figure message or a Million Dollar Message, because the biggest challenge I see people make is they, they, there's confusion around their message and a confused message creates like broken systems, broken funnels, and a broken business.

Right. Let's say you have steps 1, 2, and 3, you didn't go out of order. What do you see as the, at least these days, what is the best sort of most successful next step? You got your message down, you got the book, you got the funnel. Where should people go first? Is it just driving ads into your funnel to sell books and then you go through your funnel. What's the best media do you recommend people go to once they have those in place?

Great question. So we built a million-dollar funnel with a $100 ad budget, right? And we sold thousands of books. So that funnel did over a million dollars. The book's not even on Amazon to this day. And so it— you can build authority by having a book that solves a problem for people specifically in an industry. Another example is I have somebody in the financial space that I talked to recently that is a financial expert who wrote a book about retirement. He was at $3 million in annuities. Is in one year he went to $20 million in annuities because of his book and his funnel. But he also did over 100 podcasts and he sold 5,000 books through the funnel. So the funnel sends people into your particular offer and it instantly builds authority and credibility, and that helps people ascend into your high-ticket offer.

But he, but in that example, he bought ads, and anyone on podcasts, so podcasters on media, obviously.

That example, no ads, just went on podcast. So the minute, and he literally said the minute he stopped promoting his book, his business stopped. So you have to constantly be going on podcasts. Oh, and I forgot to mention, he's legally blind, by the way, and wrote a book and has a funnel. Pretty powerful. So the idea is he built this funnel. It wasn't perfect. He just drove people to the funnel. So he would go speak on podcasts. All roads lead to that funnel. Every podcast went to the book funnel. People bought the book, they ascended into booking a call with him, and then committing to working with him and buying annuities. And that's how he grew it from $3 million to $20 million in one year using a book and a funnel in that space of financial wellness. And he did over 100 podcasts because he couldn't get on stages and speak. So that was no paid ads.

Wow.

That was just podcast.

The key thing is, is the funnel. I'm loving what you're saying. It's like once you know you have that funnel, then you can almost reverse engineer too what the time, your ROI of time is, or even, you know, you can even pay to be certain places if you know that you're going to have the audience to know your conversion numbers.

And one of the things, the biggest thing we learned, Eric, is for years I was following the gurus like Tony Robbins, Russell Brunson. I'm like, okay, give your book away, do a masterclass with a free ticket to a free consult. So I was attracting all these what I call free pull, people that want free stuff, and they, they weren't showing up. They were ghosting us. And I was like, what is going on? And we were giving all this stuff away for free. And what shifted for our company and so many of our clients is when we simply just started selling the book, even for $4.99. Like, a $5 book was ascending into a $5K or more offer in 5 days. So that's a 1,000x return in a couple days.

Let me actually pull something out that you're not saying, but it— but just, I want viewers, because I understand this business. These people are paying $5, and I guarantee you most of them aren't reading the full book. It doesn't matter. They made a purchase, and there's an authority, there's an understanding that, oh, you're going to be the expert. They've read enough to see it, and now they're going to the next level because you've earned their trust. And they've—

they've order bumps. That's true. And there's also— back up for a second. So you buy the book for $5, and there's also order bumps— and upsells. So sometimes, like, our AOV is anywhere from $150 to $400. Our CPC is $4 when we run an ad. If you're paying $4 to sell a free book, you're going to be upside down. When you get a front-end conversion of at least 10% on paid ads, for where you have a $4 book and you're selling it for $4.99, a $4 click at $4.99, your ads are paying for themselves from day one, and that's exciting. Then you can spend as much money as you want because you know that those conversions are there. And what happens is very qualified people that come through that book funnel that you know are ready to buy because they've bought some of the other items in the funnel. And here's the really funny part: when you write an authority book, which we call a Client Conversion Model Formula, using kind of the steps that we talked about here, we found that 20 to 30% of people that read it want to work with you. But there's a lot of people that never even read the book and they will literally go and work with you simply— yeah, like you said, simply because you wrote the book on it, they trust that and they don't even read the book, right?

They just want to— they just know you're the authority. They want a shortcut. They have the money. And let's— that we like those consumers. Cool. So there's a lot you're teaching. What's the core of what— if somebody wanted to work with somebody like you to get that book done, what's the core thing you do for people?

So we always start with they either already have a book or they want to write a book and they just don't know where to start. So it depends on which two buckets they fall into. If they need help creating the first few assets like book and funnel and whatever that offer is on the back end, like think of Dr. And Dr. Phil. They were already experts in their own right before they went on Oprah, right? They were already business owners that had credibility, that went to medical school. They weren't beginners starting out trying to just wave a wand and have credibility. So they paid the price to become experts already in their field, and then they started going with visibility, and then they built spin-off shows and books and newsletters and started building their personal brand and then lending their name to other products and services. Now they're like 2 out of the 10 highest paid doctors in the world. We know that Dr. Oz is worth anywhere from $300 to $500 million because he recently ran for Congress and had to disclose his net worth. And what's interesting is they're probably the same level of skill than our doctors down the street. The difference is their visibility. And so it doesn't help you to have visibility if you don't already have the authority and credibility, because it's just the visibility is a way to expand. So what we call the income generating asset is your expertise/offer, your book and your funnel first, then visibility. So we really just evaluate where people are in that process. We meet them where they are. Some people wanna build their own funnels. Some people are like, "Funnels, that scares me. I don't wanna do that." Some people wanna write their own books. It's a transformational experience. Some people just want us to write them for them. We have a lot of famous people that we've been a ghostwriter and we don't always disclose that because they don't always want people to know they have a ghostwriter, but there's a lot of successful people out there that think they don't have time to write a book. And we have a very, very quick process to help with that.

Yeah. Wonderful. Wonderful. Well, very cool. Is there anything I didn't ask that we skipped over you wanted to cover today?

Yeah. I feel like the biggest thing is just knowing in the AI world that's coming out there, just knowing the value of your relationships and playing and doing business in the long run. It's like having relationships, protecting your reputation, being able to do what you say you're gonna do. Like all of these things, you're under this microscope when you're out there in visibility. Visibility, being consistent, compounding authority, and focusing on assets over trends. Because most people, they just quit too early. There's a great story in Think and Grow Rich about don't quit 3 feet from gold, right? And so the biggest thing I want people to understand is that authority compounds exactly like money does. So it's one of the greatest ways to build wealth. And if you create a book that's going to outlive you, that we're still talking about 100 years from now, then you know you've influenced people beyond just writing some crappy AI book. That's That's a great quote.

Thank you for that. Well, cool. And my last question for you is I know you are one of our global members at Speakeasy Mastermind. We don't quite have a city launched out where you're in Central California, but how have you enjoyed being in the community so far?

Well, I love this community. I just, yeah, I just, just being in the room, the trainings, I've learned so much. There's so many amazing people at such a high level and they've been so generous with their time. I've just found consistently everybody that met. I've been able to create some really amazing collaborations with people inside the group. It's just been really rewarding because it made me realize how there were years I was in the wrong rooms, right? I was in rooms talking to people that were more beginners, like the someday people, aspirational people, as opposed to these 7 and 8-figure entrepreneurs that are just literally changing the world. And you can learn so much by being in the room with people that are in that same journey as you are. And I always say, like, listen to the people who have what you want and don't reinvent the invent the wheel. And so the advice that I've learned, even just being in San Diego at the event, hanging out at the pool party, sitting on the couch talking to somebody, you know, a new friend I met there that did ads for Grant Cardone, and he looked at my funnel and tweaked one or two things and made a suggestion. That one suggestion helped us convert 25% more buyers, just one little thing. And so you just never know, like being in the room, having so many amazing conversations at high levels, and even just things like that where it's just one little hinge that can open a big door. I just think that represents so much about this group that I created joint ventures and partnerships, and I have a lot of clients that are in that group that have worked with me that I met in person or through connecting online. So even though I feel homeless, like not homeless, I just have a few different houses and they're spread out, so I don't know where to plug in as a local member. But the global membership has been really kind of fun because I can float around to different groups and plug again where, where I'm traveling. And yeah, I just met some really amazing humans and just so grateful that I feel like you guys created this network of some of my favorite people and some of my new best friends in business. And they're already like, it's just, it's already put together and I just kind of walked in and was able to connect with so many people. So thank you so much for that. It was great.

Well, thank you for the kind words and thanks for being an awesome member. And, uh, thank you for time today. Thank you so much. And we'll look forward to speaking with you soon.

Thanks so much, Eric.

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