Ep#17: The Art of Networking for Founders with Madelaine Czufin

And passions and opportunities. And so you are absolutely right that each step was not necessarily knowing where the next two or three steps were going to lead me, but trusting. Excited to work with this group of people and it feels like the right moment and opportunity and trusting in myself to take that leap and that risk I think is really important. And so, yeah, I'm a big believer in like the windy journey and not always knowing exactly where it's going to lead you, but trusting through that process.

I've reflected a lot on that and even on previous podcast episodes here, as far as my path was very much driven by opportunities that presented themselves to me and jumping on something that just felt fascinating to try and I look now today as well, having that range of skills is so important and being able to understand different verticals contextually. As far as historical examples, where it's at now, where the future looks like, I think it makes a lot of sense on what you're doing as far as the range of skills now that you have. Events is such a broad term now. The modern event has shifted a lot and I do a lot of events here in New York and they each have their own sort of spin and twist and people play around with formats in that time. From doing more corporate style events to what you're doing now. Are there patterns that you've seen change as far as why people come and the type of experience that you're having?

Great question. So I think about events or gatherings in kind of a few different ways. So the cornerstone being like, what is the point of bringing this group of people together? Because any event at its core is like something where you are, whether it's an activity or a dinner or you're going on a walk with a group of people or a run in New York with these run clubs. What's the point of all these people being together? And I think a maybe not a trend, but something I'm seeing, which is fantastic, is questioning of like, why are we doing this? What is the purpose? Are we doing it just to say we've done it? What's the value add to those who attend? And so I think both on the corporate and on the personal side, you know, I host gatherings in my home for friends. I do a Brooklyn Sunday night supper club. And so at the end of the day, I'm always pushing myself and asking the question, whether it's to myself, to my clients, why are we doing this? And the truth is we're spending people's time, which matters, and we're spending your money and time and so let's make sure we're doing things that have real impact, that actually matter and are getting to whatever your core goal is from this, this gathering of people.

Yeah. And I think recently and it's quite contextual, the way that we met was I went to a VC platform event at Alumni Ventures and it was really nicely sort of manage as far as having I'd say 30 people in a room and being quite curated on mixing up tables. They had a cocktail making experience and then they had some questions that were loaded in the best way as far as how do you spark conversation and get to see people's experience and get that debate happening which is really important where people aren't confident to be able to do that and have that sort of proactive approach to be able to meet someone themselves off their own back. Because that's. That's hard for a lot of people, right?

Definitely. I'm so. I am an extreme extrovert. My. My sister is an extreme introvert as is my partner. And I think there is something so beautiful about a very thoughtful event that includes both people that are happy to go around and get their energy from connecting with others and those that going into a big room with a bunch of people is incredibly intimidating. The truth is, even myself, as someone who loves big gatherings, going into a corporate business happy hour or big conference is incredibly intimidating, especially if you don't know anyone there. And so your immediate reaction is okay, who can I go have a conversation with? Am I interrupting? You're a little bit insecure of like what am I supposed to talk about? Who are they? And so exactly what you just referenced. If you can create very special moments and that allow people to connect on a slightly deeper level, find points of commonality and just be comfortable giving people prompts, creating smaller subgroups, creating activities so that they're. They're occupied while still talking can really I think tone the level of discomfort or unease and help break people out of their shells. I also think it creates really special moments where when people start to open up and share really power thing, powerful things can happen after the event. I'm a opportunities through these moments of connection, whether it's business opportunities, collaboration opportunities, or even just friendships where people develop really special relationships over time and can support one another. That's especially important in the founder inventory ecosystem as building companies is lonely and really hard and so helping build a community where you can build that level of trust is so important.

It's something that I've learned over time sort of would say I'm an extroverted introvert as far as I like a little bit of, like, social time. But I also like time for myself. And my own personal experience has been very deliberate in getting the confidence and skills to be able to talk to strangers naturally. And now I'm at a point where people just like, literally take me as someone who can just walk up and talk to anyone confidently. But it's quite strategic in the sense of I have five, if not 10 questions that I roll through, like, repeatedly, just to be able to find something that the person is into. And then once you start somewhere, then it can bounce around and you can find the things in common. And I think the big tip that I would give people as well is that assume that they're feeling the same way that you are. If you're nervous and they're standing there and they're not talking to anyone, then they're probably feeling the same way. So empathy goes a long way to acknowledge that most people are in the same situation. Probably excited to chat but don't know where to start.

Yes, I love that point. Absolutely agree. And I think something else that people, especially in professional settings where it's like, business, oh, I need to be like, pitching my business or giving out my business cards. And it feels very, like, strategic and transactional. I'm a big, like, it's a relationship game. It's long term. You want to build that trust and rapport over time. And that happens by figuring out what that person wants to connect on. And I think people like to talk about different aspects of themselves. I think sometimes there's a misnomer of like, people like to talk about themselves. So just ask them questions about themselves. But in a professional setting, that's not always the case. People have different interpretations and feelings around what they want to share. But figure out and you can ask questions without prying into their personal life of, like, what are things that they like to do in their spare time? What are their interests and passions? Are they part of a nonprofit organization? You know, where do they live in this city? Oh, cool. I love this restaurant nearby. You know, finding really special points and moments of those connections, I think again, can create a really special bond and then can open up much deeper conversations. But I totally agree with you. That moment you walk into that room and you feel like everyone's staring at you. Do you have something in your teeth? This is really scary. How do I even begin to approach people? Everyone feels the same way. So, like, go up to someone, say, hi, how are you? And Start a simple conversation doesn't have to be super complicated to start. And putting in those reps, over time, it gets easier and easier.

Okay, quick side note.

Yes?

I might make this a standard question in every episode. If a perfect stranger that you're talking to has something stuck in their teeth, do you tell them or do you leave it because it's too awkward?

I tell them. I am willing to take the awkwardness on myself to tell them. Adam Grant actually just spoke about this on a podcast, which I thought was quite interesting. And his point was sort of, are you willing to have the awkward moment yourself or are you going to, like, leave it on them to realize they sat with you for 45 minutes and had spinach between their teeth? Yeah, I mean, make. Make it silly. Sometimes a little self deprecation can make them feel better too. Make it light. Don't make it this very formal thing. But yeah, just tell them we're all human. We make mistakes. No one's perfect. Better to tell them. And then they can crush that next meeting. And you never know, maybe they had an interview and now they feel a little more confident that they know they look good, feel good.

Yeah, it's so important. Like, lifting people up around you is such a sort of pay it forward type approach. It's the more people that you inspire, the more people that you support and help along your journey. It's a multiplier effect because it's contagious. Like empathy and vulnerability combined are a superpower to be able to just get others to sort of think about how they do it, because it's this natural dopamine hit about doing something really positive for somebody else to be able to do that and like, you feel good afterwards. So it just keeps on giving.

Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I definitely have the mindset of give first, get later. And it can sound like, well, you know, you're only doing this to get something later on. It's like, no, I may never get something later on, but how great to.

See people's experience and get that debate happening, which is really important, where people aren't confident to be able to do that and have that sort of proactive approach to be able to meet someone themselves off their own back. Because that's hard for a lot of people, right?

Definitely. So I am an extreme extrovert. My sister is an extreme introvert, as is my partner. And I think there is something so beautiful about a very thoughtful event that includes both people that are happy to go around and get their energy from connecting with Others and those that going into a big room with a bunch of people is incredibly intimidating. The truth is, even myself, as someone who loves big gatherings, going into a corporate business happy hour or big conference is incredibly intimidating, especially if you don't know anyone there. And so, so your immediate reaction is okay, who can I go have a conversation with? Am I interrupting? You're a little bit insecure of like what am I supposed to talk about? Who are they? And so exactly what you just referenced. If you can create very special moments that allow people to connect on a slightly deeper level, find points of commonality and just be comfortable giving people prompts, creating smaller subgroups, creating activities so that they're. They're occupied while still talking can really, I think, tone the level of discomfort or unease and help break people out of their shells. I also think it creates really special moments where when people start to open up and share really power thing, powerful things can happen after the event. I'm a big opportunities through these moments of connection, whether it's business opportunities, collaboration opportunities or, or even just friendships where people develop really special relationships over time and can support one another. That's especially important in the founder inventory ecosystem as building companies is lonely and really hard. And so helping build a community where you can build that level of trust is so important.

It's something that I've learned over time. Sort of would say I'm an extroverted introvert as far as I like a little bit of social time, but I also like time for myself. And my own personal experience has been very deliberate in getting the confidence and skills to be able to talk to strangers naturally. And now I'm at a point where people just like literally take me as someone who can just walk up and talk to anyone confidently. But it's quite strategic in the sense of I have five, if not 10 questions that I roll through like repeatedly just to be able to find something that the person is into. And then once you start somewhere, then it can bounce around and you can find the things in common. And I think the big tip that I would give people as well is that assume that they're feeling the same way that you are. If you're nervous and they're standing there and they're not talking to anyone, then they're probably feeling the same way. So empathy goes a long way to acknowledge that most people are in the same situation, probably excited to chat but don't know where to start.

Yes, I love that point. Absolutely agree. And I think something else that people, especially in professional settings where it's like business. Oh, I need to be, like, pitching my business or giving out my business cards. And it feels very, like, strategic and transactional. I'm a big, like, it's a relationship game. It's long term. You want to build that trust and rapport over time, and that happens by figuring out what that person wants to connect on. And I think people like to talk about different aspects of themselves. I think sometimes there's a misnomer of, like, people like to talk about themselves. So just ask them questions about themselves. But in a professional setting, that's not always the case. People have different interpretations and feelings around what they want to share. But figure out, and you can ask questions without prying into their personal life of, like, what are things that they like to do in their spare time? What are their interests and passions? Or are they part of a nonprofit organization? You know, where do they live in this city? Oh, cool. I love this restaurant nearby. You know, finding really special points and moments of those connections, I think, again, can create a really special bond and then can open up much deeper conversations. But I totally agree with you. That moment, you walk into that room and you feel like everyone's staring at you. Do you have something in your teeth? This is really scary. How do I even begin to approach people? Everyone feels the same way. So, like, go up to someone, say, hi, how are you? And start. A simple conversation doesn't have to be super complicated to start. And putting in those reps, over time, it gets easier and easier.

Okay, quick side note.

Yes?

I might make this a standard question in every episode. If a perfect stranger that you're talking to has something stuck in their teeth, do you tell them or do you leave it because it's too awkward?

I tell them. I. I am willing to take the awkwardness on myself to tell them. I am. Adam Grant actually just spoke about this on a podcast, which I thought was quite interesting. And his point was sort of, are you willing to have the awkward moment yourself or are you going to, like, leave it on them to realize they sat with you for 45 minutes and had spinach between their teeth? Um, yeah, I mean, make. Make it silly. Sometimes a little self deprecation can make them feel better too. Make it light. Don't make it this very formal thing. But yeah, just tell them we're all human. We make mistakes. No one's perfect. Better to tell them. And then they can crush that next meeting. And you never know. Like, maybe they had an interview and now they feel a little more confident that they Know they look good, feel good.

Yeah, it's so important. Like lifting people up around you is such a sort of pay it forward type approach. It's the more people that you inspire, the more people that you support and help along your journey. It's a multiplier effect because it's contagious. Like empathy and vulnerability combined are a superpower to be able to just get others to sort of think about how they do it because it's this natural dopamine hit about doing something really positive for somebody else to be able to do that and like you feel good afterwards. So it just keeps on giving.

Yeah, no, I totally agree and I definitely have the mindset of give first, get later. And it can sound like, well, you know, you're only doing this to get something later on. It's like, no, I may never get something later on, but how great do you the getting to me is you feel really great helping them. And now being in the seat of being a founder myself and starting a new business and needing lots of mentorship and support and having lots of silly questions. There was a lot of people that I was able to help and support through my different roles at large corporates that I can now go to and say, hey, I don't know how to do this. Can you please give me advice and guidance from talking through proposals to client research. And I can tell you none of those conversations started with well that one time when I helped you out. You know, it's. You built a relationship over time where there's deep trust and I think if everyone approaches where how can I help you? How can I be most of service to what you are doing and support your business, your passions. I think the world one would be a better place. But I also think you build really deep rapport and connection that over time is incredibly strategic. I just don't think you need to have that like I'm doing this to get something from you mindset. I think it comes with really naturally when you do it in a very authentic manner.

I 100% agree and there's two things in that that I'd love to explore a bit further. You talk about intention and I think with the going in with the mindset of selling is always going to fall flat. You need to make yourself compelling and interesting. If you ask any investor, 9 times out of 10, I guess the personality, the culture and everything around the founders is a huge, huge factor in whether they invest or not. So it goes into the same with human relationships. We form opinions of people based upon not only what they talk about, but how they communicate as well. So going up with a pitch immediately just feels dirty and uncomfortable and opportunistic. When being able to add value, debate something, do something that's memorable, is so much more valuable and that person is much more likely to re engage with you and maybe even invest in that example like I just gave. But building a long term relationship and that multiplier effect of being able to have like the network. Network effect where someone else connects you to someone else of value.

Yeah, I think, I mean, I absolutely agree a few ideas here. One is, I like to think, like, think of yourself as the center of a spiderweb and you can be the central point of connection for a lot of different people and within your web of community. Not everyone needs to connect all the time and at the same moment. But if you can think strategically about, okay, this person I met a few weeks ago, it would be really interesting if they met this person. They're actually building something similar. And the timing is perfect. And I think there is again, to your point, like really thoughtful intention behind it and strategy of like, why am I putting these two people together? It's not just like, oh, I made a connection check for this person. And I think sometimes that can happen. You meet with someone, you're like, oh, I'll connect you with this person. And then they connect you. And you're like, it's not just to connect. Like, why, why are you connecting them together? And maybe a connection doesn't need to happen. The next day after a coffee follow up, say, hey, it was great to meet you, really enjoyed our time together. We did this, Andy, you and I, like, I connected you with someone a couple days ago. We got coffee weeks ago. Like, I think that really matters where be strategic. Don't just waste their time and make a connection to say you did it. Someone appreciate would. You know, I always appreciate more if someone 2 months or 5 months or a year after I met them is like, hey, Madeline, here's someone that I thought of you. Would you like to meet them? And I'm like, that was so thoughtful. Wow. Yeah, that would be amazing. What a strategic link. So I think having a lot of intentionality behind it and I use the web as like, you're the centerfold. It's not to just be like main character energy. It's really to be like, I can be a really powerful connector. I have one asterisk to this because this is something I myself struggle with and it is definitely a big development area for me. And it's not. It's a nuanced thing to kind of talk about, but it's not just endlessly saying yes. So, like, I love making connections for people. I love bringing people together. I love being helpful where I can. And you can't always do that. Time is limited. It's a super important resource. It's the most valuable resource we have as humans, I think. And sometimes you have to say no. And that can be hard, especially for people who love to make connection and bring people together. And so I say that because I think in building your professional network and your professional community and ecosystem, not every single person you meet needs to be part of that. I think for some people, that's much easier. They have kind of a core group of friends and they have a core professional network, and those are their people and, like, that's who they spend time, energy, and brain power around. I think for someone like you and I, who have a broader experience, expansive network, it can sometimes be hard. And sometimes we can also get taken for a ride a bit where someone's just like always asking for things and never helping. And the moment you need help, they aren't stepping up. And so being mindful of that. And again, similar to friendships, like, how are they showing up for me as a friend when I really need them, and how are they showing up for me professionally as a colleague or a peer in the network when I need them? And I think that can be very telling. So I say that caveat. Not everyone needs to be part of your network, and each individual is different in terms of the way they build their professional community around them.

There's lots of good stuff in that. First, I want to shout out to Christina from Insight Partners who connected you.

And I the best.

The best. And a great example where for me, there's. There's something around that connection that I think people genuinely value. And you touched on it a little bit there, the ability to meet someone and then connect them with someone else in your network and not have a role ongoing. For me, I feel that that gives back 10 times over. There's something about enabling others to connect is a superpower.

Absolutely. Again, Christina is also an amazing connector, but there's joy in being able to say, like, how cool is it? I connected Andy and Madeline and now they just did podcast episode and I didn't have anything to do with that, but they would never have met if not for me. But it was a very thoughtful connection. It wasn't, oh, who's the last two people I met? Let's just say I connect the two of them and then it's like check marks. Yeah. No, a lot of strategy and intention behind it.

Yeah. And the like mindedness as well, where you have a sense through knowing the person that connects you to somebody else, you almost get a sort of passive endorsement about who they are and being able to trust them as well. And in a city like New York, where we both are, to be able to have that ability to see one, two phone calls away from someone that you need to talk to and being able to tap into that is critical to open doors.

Yeah, I absolutely agree. Something else that I do, I think a lot about, and this was particularly relevant when I was doing the Veneta project, is also supporting people who don't have that first second degree point of connection and creating spaces or opportunities for them to also connect. And I say that because, you know, I think a lot of industries, tech and venture being one I'm most intimately familiar with, it can be really hard to get in. And a lot of it does have to do with your network and who you know. And so it can be challenging if you didn't grow up in a certain area, didn't go to certain schools, didn't then come and move to a certain city to meet the right people, whether it's to help build your company, to fund your business, to get opportunities to work at a venture capital firm. And I think there's some great programs out there and great firms that spend a lot of time and energy and effort to make sure that we're not only staying within our little bubble and web and we are really looking at giving as many qualified people as possible the opportunity to meet and connect. But that's hard. I think it's actually like a really interesting challenge stemming from recruiting, but goes way beyond that. You know, you hear the stories of founders that don't live in coastal cities or big cities where there's a venture presence, and then how incredibly difficult it is for them to even figure out a way to get connected to a venture capitalist investor to have a meeting. Whereas in New York you can go to events and network and generally after a year or two, you're probably going to get connected with enough people to have one degree removed. Introduction so I'm always very fascinated by that and spend time thinking about how I can help my clients that are interested in better supporting those groups of people.

And me personally, at my peak, I was probably doing four events a week of networking and finding a handful of people that I could have healthy Conversations with sometimes by design knowing they were attending, or other times just coincidental that they were there and we had a conversation. And it's been critical for me to be able to do my job now. But I think there's also some downsides with networking. And I feel like it's become like probably pre and post Covid, there's been a real shift for the obvious reasons. But I think the way that people connect now potentially is a little bit broken. As far as before relationships and the classic lunches or drinks and hosting. And there was a lot of stuff in 80s and 90s Culture of networking that was actively encouraged. And I feel like that that's gone away a little bit. Maybe it's a budget thing, maybe it's a cultural thing. I'm not sure. But do you see issues in modern networking now either? Like, maybe start with impersonal and then we can go on to digital next?

Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I'm seeing a bit of like, I guess, opposing sides of this. In one lens. I agree with you that I think there is a. I don't know if it's still a bit of honestly a reaction to Covid and people readjusting back to like shifting their life because they were remote for a number of years and refiguring out what that means based on where they work. And so, you know, for example, if you're in the office five days a week, the culture of like post work, happy hours and grabbing coffee with people, like that's. It feels like that's kind of back. Because you're in the office, you kind of create back to the same habits. I think people who work, let's say fully remote and they work at a remote company. Those companies are, I do feel like, are spending more time thinking about how do we bring people together. I'm seeing a big trend in really beautiful, thoughtful retreats that are corporate retreats. I'm also seeing retreats in general, which is really beautiful to see, even on the personal side. Individual retreats, couple retreats that are very focused on mindfulness, connection, creating a commonality. Right. So there's totally different strokes for different folks. Right. Like you can go and do a yoga, wellness retreat. There's like adventure, travel, backpacking, like all different types and varieties. And I think I am seeing a really interesting shift where corporates are taking some of that model and that trend right now and trying to figure out a way to actually incorporate it into some of their employee, I guess, benefit and community and culture. Like, how are we Bringing and connecting our teams together, especially in a remote hybrid environment. The other shift I'm seeing that I actually think is a real positive is people being very much more hyper focused on like, why am I going to this event? Which is challenging because it means there, I think is a trend of both generational actually. I think the younger generation prioritizes things differently, especially in a work environment. But also I am a millennial. Like the millennial generation, it feels more like people have a very high bar for what they will and won't go to. Even if they're not the most senior person. They're like, well, I kind of want to go home, I have family, I want quiet time, I need to chill. And so I'm seeing a trend towards are we doing events during the working day? Are we doing it in the morning? Are we doing interesting events like workout classes? If we're doing a dinner, we have to be really, it's like a new dialogue. We have to be super thoughtful because it's in the evening and how often are we doing these and. And we're taking time away from people's personal life. And it didn't feel like that was as much of a focus before. It's like, well, it's work. You have to go to this networking dinner. Kind of too bad it's your job. Feels a little less like that and a little more like people have the ownership of their time and can decide what they do and don't want to go to. So that was a lot. But I am seeing some pros, cons, interesting transitions of how are we building community and culture within corporates in kind of new, unique ways. We have a higher bar to clear to get people together and what do people want when they're. They are gathering. Non alcoholic culture is also a big one and I think a factor in this. Like, I'm seeing fewer and fewer happy hours. I'm seeing way more push towards like whether it's physical activity, mental health and just an interesting activity, whether it's a cooking class or an art class of some sort. I'm seeing like all sorts of fun, creative ideas that is not centered around a culture of like, we go out and we grab beers. People want more than that.

Yeah, there's two things in that. For me, the lifestyle choice has been significant. I think people are really doubling down on longevity and proactively thinking about lifestyle choices. So I think that that rings true on doing breakfast. Like, I probably do a breakfast once a week and it's such a nice way to start Your day over a coffee. It's a different kind of environment than going out at night with drinks. And I think it's really healthy. I do a monthly breakfast in Brooklyn with a small network as part of the fourth effect, which I'm an ambassador for. And it's amazing, like some of the conversations that we've had. And I actually met there a lady Lizzie, who I'm now an advisor for on her business Sinking, which is a great product that is female Forward for health and wellness in aligning activity with the menstrual cycle. So there are things that I would not have met Lizzy without that. And those opportunities that came with an in person experience. And I think as far as curating them yourself, attending other events, et cetera, from an event strategy point of view, we've touched on it slightly. But I'd love to hear from yourself as far as what are the ways that you can optimize an event to make sure that people are getting value, they understand the agenda, the type of people that will be there, opportunities that exist, et cetera? Is it communication? Is it very specific management of people on the night with how they mingle, et cetera? What are some of the ways that you can make sure that that is the best it can be?

Yeah, so I think it's a few components to break down. One is I think there's a time and place for almost any type of event. I was obviously chatting about like, you know, not a huge massive happy hour fan, but there's amazing, incredible opportunity to bring people together in a happy hour. There's spectacular dinners and those are incredibly impactful. There's fun ways to connect that's super personal and not work related. Right. So it's like I don't think it's. There's the right way to do it. I think it's much more focused in on having a clear purpose and goal. And the goal is not I want to gather people. The goal is like when someone walks away from your event, what do you want them to have shared that they learned or gained from being together? And what would you want them to do as an action or follow up from your event? Now that can look different depending on different goals. But I think if from a professional standpoint in particular. But again, also I think about this when I'm doing my gatherings in my home, that being really thoughtful and spending some time breaking that down can really help in selecting the type of event that you want to host that will make the most sense. The next piece, which is kind of A fun segue into actually the name of my business, which is Aeolo. It's a reference to the Greek God of wind, Aeolio, which was a total like wind. You can't see it. It's a feeling, I think that an incredibly well executed event feels seamless, easy, sort of this like easy breezy. It was just sort of pulled together when in fact there's been an unbelievable attention to detail, a very sharp eye to strategic design, being very hyper focused on every single small to very large part of the event. And I think that is part of what makes my job really interesting is for my clients, I create the best event for them when I align their goals and what they want to get from the event and push them to really understand and hone in on that with then the right type of event, selecting the right venue and then being incredibly hyper vigilant about every individual event moment and what needs to happen. And so I think I'm slightly biased because I run an event consulting firm, but I think that that can be very difficult. And there is an art, not a science. And so for me, every event is unique and different. It requires different specialty and focus. But I do think really breaking those things down can then build back up this really spectacular experience for your guests. The last thing I will sort of equate to, which is a bit cheesy, but I do think it's very true. And most people who run events would be like, oh, God, yes. Is sort of like the duck in the water situation where, like the duck looks so peaceful. Everything's running beautifully, it's all flowing, the speakers are very chill, the service is wonderful. And you're in the back, hair pulled up, sweating, running around like a crazy person. But like, it's because you are like hyper, hyper focused on every little detail. And so I think the best executed events feel simple and they are not.

I've been a part of a lot of events as an organizer, promoter, attendee, and it can be a really beautiful experience. It's just there's little details that you can do to make it feel more emotive. Get your brain active in a way that is not typical for you. And a lot of that can spark inspiration for unique conversations, connecting with people you may not have done otherwise. It sort of sets a really nice precedent on what you're doing. So I love that thinking from a fusing we'll pivot across into digital shortly. But that sort of hybrid nature of digital and physical, like, we're in a world now where a lot of events happen online. Like I attend a lot of panel conversations that are streamed from LinkedIn and broader and I've been to events that do both or just events where it's in person only. As far as the process of connecting with more people. Are there some best practices around connecting folks pre event and post event to maximize the event experience as far as if you don't get around to everyone or there's someone there that you probably should have connected with that you both missed each other, whatever that looks like, is there something there to maximize that hybrid experience?

Absolutely. And again, it will depend a bit on the audience, your relationship to that audience of guests, and what your goals are from the event. But I think a good example of this is when I was hosting events at First Republic. Ultimately I was in a sales role, right? So I could either go and spam people a bunch of banking information that they candidly did not care and was probably filtered through their spam, or I could host really interesting gatherings, they could get to know me and then as I heard tidbits that could be relevant to have banking support, I could then reach out and say hey let's grab a coffee one on one, I want to hear how things are going on your side and then share something that it becomes very relevant and in real time to them that says oh yeah, that'd be great, yeah we would love to work with your team or yes, we really need that resource. I'd love to learn more and also staying top of mind to them. So how I think about it from an event side, I'm actually going to go backwards and then forwards. In terms of post event activation outreach, I was a big send an email thanking the group if it was a small group and connecting everyone. That's again let's say it's a 15 person dinner. @ the dinner as I'm playing host and connecting and engaging in conversation, I will bring it up, say hey you guys have all connected. I'm going to send an email around. Just let me know if anyone doesn't want their email shared. I will say I've been doing this for many years. I've never had a situation where someone separately pinged me and asked for their email to not be shared. I also find people are very respectful on those when it's a small group or they're not spamming the group, but it's super helpful for them to then connect. I add everyone's LinkedIn so they can connect there as well and then they have their email to follow up. It also creates a really interesting email group that as things come up you can email and say hey, thought this group would enjoy seeing this and it can spark a conversation many months later to again just stay top of mind. So that's one way is creating an email kind of like subgroup. The other is if it's a bigger event, if you didn't have a chance to connect with someone kind of as you are hinting at is to reach out and say hey, we didn't have a chance to connect. Love to just grab coffee if you have time. Love to learn more about you. I think keep it simple. The truth is either they're going to read your email and say oh yeah, sure, like happy to connect. They're going to look at your LinkedIn and know what you do or they're not going to look at it. And so again this like I don't think you need to spam them a bunch of information. The truth is they don't know who you are, they did not meet you at the event and so give them the opportunity to get to know you. So I think that's always a great method. And the other is thanking people that you met or saw or caught up with at the event. It can be a quick ping like hey, it was great to see you, love to hear how things are going. I can check in in a couple months. Maybe we can grab a coffee and catch up. Those one off emails that again are personal, we're going to get into like the bot emails but like are not from a bot. You can use ChatGPT as a good way to like finesse your email if maybe you're not the most like love language and you need a little help on like boosting it up. But don't use bots for these things. Like it needs to feel like a human being. You wrote this email to them and so you need to write the email to them. So that's another so that email connection point. And I think the other thing I love doing is and everyone has their different views on LinkedIn. I think posting some beautiful photos of an event you did and thanking people and tagging them is a really fun way to show the event. You know, some people share Market Dynamics on LinkedIn, some people share their personal life updates on LinkedIn. For me, like more of my brand and I think everyone's different is I love to share really cool, fun, beautiful events that I'm hosting and thank people for coming and thanking the sponsors for supporting the event. And people can share it if they want to or not. But it is a nice way to memorialize what happened and again create another point of connection. The final thing I will say, and I know I'm rambling with, there's a lot of juicy stuff that happens after the event that matters. You spent all this money on the event all this time putting it together. Get your bang for your buck, make it worth the squeeze. And so I think another piece is think about connections. Were there interesting people that were at the event that maybe didn't sit next to one another but you wish had met and then say hey, you didn't connect with so and so would you be interested in an intro? I thought you two might enjoy connecting on xyz. That is a big important moment of like ask about the intro before making it. I'm a big believer like please don't just make the intro. Ask if they want the intro. They may have context for reasons of like why that intro doesn't make sense at the time. But if you ask, it's another really interesting, thoughtful point of connection where you can bring two people together after the event that maybe didn't get a chance to connect. So yeah, I'm a big lot of activity going on post event. Another one is sponsors. Like if you have sponsors following up with them, how can you be helpful? What are things that they got from the event? Can you help make additional introductions from attendees? What are things they would love to see at the next event you collaborate on? From a pre event side this is very event dependent but I guess in your process of venue selection and the type of event you're going to do is thinking about what does that selection lend itself in terms of the invite. Is this a massive conference and so it's going to be a large scale massive RSVP management. So we need a real platform for that. We want to build a beautiful website that syncs really well and so that's more on the digital side like make sure you're using the really good technology well to create great content that's easy to understand for event details. Super user friendly with like good UI of like here's all the details you're going to need for the event and then a good backend for tracking all of the RSVPs and any other information you may need such as travel info, dietary restrictions, things like that. If it's something that's going to be smaller and more manageable. I am always about like send an email with a beautiful invitation or send an invite digitally and then follow up via email. Say hey, wanted to make sure you Received this. We would love to have you there. And those one on one emails I find have a much higher response rate and a higher yes RSVP because they're not just getting pinged with another paperless post or Luma or Eventbrite. It's coming from you and then they are responding and RSVPing back to the human and not to the platform.

Great advice in that I think the curation part jumps out to me in the sense of pre and post. How do you think about the type of value that attendees can get and the type of people they would like to meet? And you can obviously curate event experiences but then the follow up is important too and I mentioned before I'm on VC platform and they use orbit and to be able to put in like a series of questions and it starts to double down on who you are and the type of person you would meet and then you have common diary times and it books it for you. That's a really elegant way to be able to find people that are like minded and build that network. But I think the people that you don't talk to like being able to like follow them up afterwards. It just ingrains the event in their memory too. So they'll build an appreciation respect for yourself in the curator of that event. It'll open up new opportunities for them. It'll feel personalized because a lot of events, you know, and a lot of them are done on no budget. So I appreciate this. But they feel very pop up, happen and disappear again and you don't get that full length of that pre event duration and post event follow ups with people.

Yeah, something you said that I think is an important thing to sort of double click on is it can feel like it was just sort of popped up and a little bit not polished and maybe slightly disorganized. I'm a very big proponent if if you're not going to do the event well, just don't do it. And that's okay. By the way, like you don't have to do every type of event that your competitor or the other firms or your peers are doing. Maybe doing one or starting smaller and growing can be a really powerful way to build brand alignment with your event programming. And so to your point, that doesn't mean you just have big budgets. You can do very thoughtful events that are incredibly well organized, impeccably executed on a very, very tight budget because you're focused. Because that's maybe the only event you're going to do in the quarter or in the year and you're able to spend time on it rather than spreading yourself then across a bunch of medium events. People remember and they remember the really well executed events, but they also will remember the things that maybe weren't so great and maybe don't attend again. And so I, yeah, I'm a big believer in like if you're going to do it, do it well. During COVID I was doing a lot of virtual events and I started pairing back but I didn't stop doing them. I think there were some really interesting ways to bring people together virtually but I pretty quickly learned there were ways to bring together people virtually that were also very ineffective and a waste of time. And so those are free. Like there's ways to do things that you're bringing people together on a super low budget and it still feels really high impact. And part of it is focus, part of it is also creativity. Are there things that you could do that are special or unique to your business or you that you have access to that may be a cool different type of experience and you hadn't thought of that as a way to bring your founders together, way to bring your co investors together. So yeah, I'm a big. It doesn't need to be splashy or have a bunch of money behind it to be a really well done and impactful event.

Yeah. So advice there is intentionality as far as who's coming, what you can take on comfortably and deliver experience where people walk away with value.

Thousand percent. Yes.

Yeah, great. So going back to you touched on it before a little bit with LinkedIn and AI. As far as what's happening right now. So that can of worms is partway open. So I want to tear that right open now as far as what's happening from a digital perspective and the ability now to run automated sequences, reply to people automatically, post automatically, et cetera. We're in a world where the effectiveness is what it's described as currently is being used to ultimately spam people, where people may cast a wide net just to try and get connections and it lacks intent, it lacks curation and it's also probably not going to be very effective ultimately is the irony in that into have genuine connections. So from a LinkedIn standpoint, because it is the main tool that people are using, what are some of the things that you've seen work maybe even in connected to event or not, where your approach to people who you think are going to be relevant to you, how you start to set that up and not just be someone else flooding their.

Inbox yeah, this is a really good one. I heard recently someone describe it, which is not novel, but it was resonated, is to think about using these tools like a summer intern. It's like an undergraduate. You wouldn't have them put together a whole PowerPoint deck and not check it very carefully before you send it to the CEO. And I think people are losing sight of that a little bit because these tools are very powerful, but they make mistakes. And so I think people are trying to do efficiencies at all cost sometimes and then they lose sight as to what the, the goal was and, or the actual effectiveness. And so LinkedIn and even email, I kind of view them similarly, are really good examples of this where the goal being like, can we ping email DM as many people as possible within a certain parameter to try to meet sales metrics, let's say. And the reality is there's ways to do it super cleverly, very thoughtfully. That is eye catching because it's like, oh, this is a cold outreach. But the way you framed this, I am interested. Like, I do want to meet you. And yeah, it's a cold outreach, that's clearly a sales tactic. But I'm intrigued. Like, you've hooked me. I have not seen those where there was not very clear human intervention that was coming up with something that was really nuanced and clever and personalized. And so I think what happens is oftentimes it becomes super spammy, people delete it. And I think the risk is you're, you're associated with that spam now. And so it can be bad for your brand, for your business, for you personally, from a personal brand side. And so I just caution people to be really careful about that. Where again, like I love ChatGPT for polishing emails to like, look at what I wrote. Put it in there. Like, is there a better word for this or that? And like, help me Wordsmith, which candidly is like my old googling on a thesaurus. But I, you know, there, there's a lot of human intervention going on and it's not a, this is the name of my company. Create a sales pitch for me, copy paste that into a LinkedIn post or a LinkedIn DM and paying a thousand people with that same generic post where you've clearly just like inserted their name. Yeah, I don't think it's the move, I don't think it's efficient and I actually don't think you get the impact you could if you spent a little more time really customizing it and Being a little more thoughtful about what would really resonate with people to get them to open it and start a conversation.

And I see it myself like my inbox on LinkedIn. The amount of services that people are trying to sell and there's so many patterns that I see where it's clearly been auto generated and really just bad ones where they're selling me services that are my specific expertise and not even checking what I have as far as skills and being personalized on what that is and just the repeat follow ups and all the tactics. And I think it goes back to like the way that I treat it. You said it earlier on, as far as in person, don't go on a sales pitch immediately, add value, show that you're a human being and find something to bond over because it's just so cold. Like you wouldn't. If you treat that inbox the same that you treat a person, you're not gonna walk up to a stranger in a room and just start talking to them about how you can help them and should they have a meeting. And here's my calendar link to find time to have a chat. I don't even know who you are. Why would I book a calendar meeting with you? It's just so cold.

Yeah, no, I definitely agree. So I think there's a balance. I think there's something quite interesting about the power of this potential for efficiency. I just think we're not, I think some companies and groups are not using it in the right way where it's becoming ineffective. I am not obviously anti these tools. I'm like very fascinated to see where they will continue to go and develop. I just think again, there's a little bit of instances of people using them fairly blindly and not taking time to really edit, refresh and put in some of that human thought which we have and it doesn't ultimately, which is maybe a bit old school of me, but I do think to really be thoughtful about what you're sending and have the mindset of like, you know, this stuff can rub people the wrong way. And it's one thing to, you know, give it a try. All about cold, you know, you have to do cold outreach a lot of times in sales functions. And so to just say like don't do it is short sighted, but to do it thoughtfully and with some personal connection and intention I think is a lot more effective.

Yeah. And I would put even one step further and say to people with my teacher voice, don't ruin it for everyone. Cause it's, I think the More that is spammed and auto generated. It just gets people less engaged in the platform. So it's counterintuitive for the collective audience. And there's people that I want to reach out to and I know that we'd have a healthy conversation and it would be worthwhile, but they're probably not even seeing it because they're getting a hundred inbox spam messages each day. So I think being considerate of the community and how you actually show up and it's not going to work, it's just that tactic, it's so diluted now and it's so easy for people to do that mass outreach that you need to be considerate and I think go back to being more human in the way that you think about engaging because you don't need vanity metrics, you don't need to have 10,000 people that follow you. I'd rather have 500 people that actually care about what I do and what I say and may buy whatever it is that I'm selling than 10,000 people who don't really care about what I'm saying. And it's just a number on a page.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's interesting because it goes into something that's like far beyond my area of expertise. But LinkedIn ultimately is like a social platform. And so I think this goes into a lot of the questions around social media and content creation and impact of marketing efforts, you know, using social media. I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole because the truth is I am not an expert in this space, but I do think LinkedIn is like a really specific niche business example of the broader question around the impact of, you know, where does a content creator actually create real impact within their community? And you see this all the time, I think, where you have these micro influencers and they may have a better, deeper reach within their smaller community than someone who has 2 million followers. So I think of LinkedIn in that way, like, how am I impacting the people who are following me? And to your point, like, am I being kind of a good steward of this community and platform and what do I want my brand and ethos to be on it? Because it's going to be different for everyone and be kind of true to whatever that is that you want to. However you want to show up?

Yeah. Great. And the way that I would summarize that is value over volume. Dude. I love a bit of iteration, but it's been smart. So we have had a great conversation coming after time we could Keep going. I have this every time. It's like I need to do a five hour episode, but I don't think people will tune in for five hours. But for us to finish off today, I love to be able to introduce your services and what you're working on and the type of things that you'd love to talk to folks on this podcast about.

Yeah, no, look, I appreciate it and it's been wonderful to chat with you. I feel like this is what happened at our coffee last time is we were like, it's an hour, we need to go to our next meeting. But always such a pleasure and thank you for creating a platform to highlight really interesting people building great, interesting businesses. So I guess what I would love to share about EOLO is really focused in on event curation and execution. And so a lot of what we just discussed is really supporting my clients with the types of events and programming that they want to put together and then building that out from the ground up and putting together and executing on those big exciting visions. So working with venture capital firms, startup companies and communities around the venture and tech ecosystem to help bring those visions to life. So from small curated experiences to large scale retreat, summit conferences and everything in between, this is an area that I love. It's exciting and really interesting to me. And so yeah, if you have any questions or are curious to learn more, please feel free to reach out. I can, I don't know if you can share my email in the notes, but I'm happy to share my email and obviously feel free to reach out on LinkedIn.

Perfect. And for those listening, EOLO is E O L O and I'll put notes in, show notes and when I post I'll obviously tag Madeline. So when you listen to this episode you get all that detail. But having spent time with Madeline now for a little while, I can highly endorse her energy and her skillset. We've formed a great bond talking about events and experiences and networking and it's very topical right now as well. So thank you so much for joining today. It's been a real pleasure.

Thank you Andy. Such a joy and have a great one.

Thank you. You're listening to Startups Decoded. My name's Andy Walsh. Please make sure you follow us and share with your friends. The support is much appreciated. We'll have another fantastic guest next week. Thank you.