Stephen Curry On Building The Warriors Culture, Battling LeBron & Kyrie, Changing The NBA & More

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Um, it's got to be Leo, right?

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I would say so. I would say—

Greatest episodes we've done.

I would say when we started this show, this was one that was on the bucket list.

Yeah.

As our first or second guest.

I think the term is called white whales. Is that right? White whales, like something you're You're chasing something you dream about. Yeah. And I've got a list of 3 people that are like my bucket list and have been since I started podcasting 7 years ago. Steph has been on that the whole time. Happy to have sat down with him a night in between games here in Houston, Texas. I called the Warriors game last night, took the red-eye after the game, got to Houston. You flew in last night. Jason came in from Oklahoma. We're here. We're getting this done. It's going to be awesome.

So you called the game last night, like you mentioned. What'd you think?

I was really happy because Klay had a good game. And so much has been made about his struggles going into last night, but he was solid, shot around 50% from the field, got off to a great start. It was interesting. Early in that game, Steph, I think, made a point to look for Klay, to get everyone involved in the offense. We had the audio, you know, from Steve Kerr during different timeouts, and Kerr kept stressing, "One more pass, one more pass, one more pass." And if you look at their, like, assist percentage last night, it was amazing. Steph, of course, ended up with 10 assists. This is in a game coming off a 50-ball where, you know, maybe he comes out on a Friday ESPN game and tries to go ballistic, but he recognizes how important Klay playing well is to that team.

Do you feel like being around the group, there's still a level of calm? Obviously the season has not started how they would have wanted to, or really how I think most people would have predicted, but this is none of these guys' first rodeo.

Yeah, that's the thing that comes with winning at a high level and experience. They're just a few months removed from winning an NBA championship. They've got to figure out their bench. They've got to act. I think they've got to add some pieces to their bench. They, they, they miss Otto Porter. They miss Gary Payton. You need guys off the bench that really just fit into that system and have a really high basketball IQ. Um, and truthfully, this is not a knock on Wiseman or Kuminga or Moses Moody and those guys, they haven't had enough basketball experience and that's not an easy thing. You know, they're not getting. the runs that the Houston Rockets young guys are getting. They're not getting the runs that the Orlando Magic young guys are getting. They're in a high-pressure situation with a timeline based on Stephen Curry, who is going to be 35 in a few months. And he's having an unbelievable season. I would actually argue that he's having his best statistical season. Uh, going into last night, I didn't look it up today, but going into last night, Friday night's game against the Knicks. Yeah. True shooting percentage of over 70%, career high for him, career high in points, career high in rebounds. This guy's doing it at such a high level, better statistical season right now than his unanimous MVP year, by the way. Now that team, of course, was 73-9. Yeah. And so where do you sort of assess his, his, you know, likelihood that he could win another MVP?

Well, the team just has to improve. They just have to, first of all, have to win a game on the road. Secondly, they just have to win more. I don't think they need to finish first in the West if he keeps this up. And I don't know where the spot they have to be to really put him in the conversation is, but they're not there right now. My question for you, we talked about this a couple of weeks ago, and I want to hear your thoughts on him and the MVP. But just the difference between the starters and the bench on this team and how stark it is. This was from a couple of days ago. The starters are +77. The bench is -90. How is this even possible? A, but B, is there— and this is a glass, you know, glass half full sort of way to phrase this question— is there a world where it's like if the bench just gets like marginally better with how good the starters are, all of a sudden we're like, oh yeah, this is the team that won a championship last year?

Yeah. So Jordan Poole, when he subs in for Klay and sort of where he's the fifth starter, that group, you know, hasn't been great. The group with Poole for Kevon Looney hasn't been great relative to how you would expect those groups to perform. The one interesting thing in that sort of death lineup 3.0, you know, going into last night at least, Klay's 3-point shooting numbers, he was like 5 for 22. Yeah.. And if you just said like, if Klay's shooting 35%, all of a sudden that becomes a plus unit. If Klay's shooting 45, 40% from with that unit, all of a sudden that's a really good unit. So I think some of this is small sample size. Um, I, you know, I think DiVincenzo has a chance to figure that out. He had some good moments last night. And I think Jemichael Green has some good moments last night and has a chance to figure that out. In terms of the MVP right now on DraftKings Sportsbook, Steph is currently ranked 4th in the MVP race with odds of +900. Right now he's behind Luka Dončić, Giannis Antetokounmpo, and Jason Tatum. And I think that's fair. He's ahead of guys like Joel Embiid, Ja Morant, Kevin Durant. But I think Dončić, Antetokounmpo, Tatum, that's fair. Tatum right now, the Celtics are on a burner, 9 straight wins. Tatum's playing unbelievable. Giannis, of course, two-way brilliance and and Luka is basically the Dallas Mavericks.

Yeah. Well, I was going to say, don't you think, you know, he and Luka are in similar positions if you were to, should have judged them right now and they're both having these great seasons, but the team is, you know, has been hit or miss compared to Milwaukee and Boston?

Yeah. Milwaukee and Boston right now have looked like the most complete teams. And of course, Milwaukee without Chris Middleton still. So there's a chance they go on a run if he's back and healthy and playing well. The really interesting thing, you know, for, I think you're right on the MVP race. I think for Steph to really be in the conversation at the end, the Warriors have to be a top 3 or top 4 team in the Western Conference. DraftKings Sportsbook still loves them to win the Western Conference. They're tied with the Clippers right now with the best odds to win the Western Conference at +350. So that will be an interesting thing. to play out over the season is where do the Warriors stack up? If Steph continues this dominance and this brilliance, he may have a chance at that third regular season MVP. As always, see the show notes for details on DraftKings. Without further ado, let's get to this awesome conversation with Steph Curry. All right, let's welcome in the executive producer of Holy Moly, Steph Curry. Steph, thanks so much for joining us.

I appreciate it. You wouldn't, you'd be surprised how much I get that on the.

Yeah.

Out in the wild and how many people love that show. So appreciate the love.

4 seasons, right?

Yeah, we already locked in for 5. Yeah. Shout out to Rob Riggle, Joe Tessitore. Good for you.

Tommy, I haven't told you this story yet, but I wanna start the podcast with a quick story. So we've been trying to get Steph on the pod for a while. There's been some near misses that all, you know, he's a busy guy, I get it. So I'm doing the game last night in Golden State, and I was actually trying to get Jalen Brunson's attention, but I was like looking around the court. I made eye contact with Steph, and he gave me a head nod. He dribbles over to center court, and RJ and I stood up, and the first thing he says to me, he goes, hey, uh, do we ever get that podcast on the books?

And the look on your face.

I had this moment of panic. To provide context, I was immediately going to the airport after the game to fly to Houston to meet Steph here. Jason was flying in today from Oklahoma City. Tommy was flying in from LA. We'd booked rooms. I was like, oh shit. I was like, it's tomorrow. And you're like, oh right, Houston. RJ thought that was funny.

He loved that one. Apparently, yes, you had a conversation about on the way to the game, the whole deal. I'm hoping we can lock this in because it's been a long time coming to get it on the schedule. But I had to take advantage of the moment.

I don't want to spend too much time because we have so much to get to, but I don't want to spend too much time necessarily on this year's team. But, you know, a big takeaway last night in watching the game was Klay's play. And he's a guy who's struggling right now. Were you at the beginning of that game, were you focused on sort of finding him? Because I thought Initially, it looked like you were very much in facilitator role.

Yeah, that's part of like the beauty of how we play and what we do. It's all predicated on like creating the easiest shots possible 'cause we have, you know, the chemistry, the right talent to be able to leverage like my playmaking space and gravity, if you will, and get everybody going. There's certain times and kind of you just feeling out the flow of the game where you want to be a little bit more assertive on getting the ball moving and getting Klay some easy shots early because that changes the whole dynamic of the game. I told him the— his superpower obviously is shooting the basketball, but he's such a threat even in whatever percentage he's shooting right now when his two feet are on the floor and he's out there, like, people worry about him. So, you know, trying to let the game come to him. But for me, just to be able to, you know, kind of figure out how to get him some easy shots early, get his confidence going. You could tell how much our crowd fed off of it early. And then that changes the whole dynamic of the game. So whether he's making or missing shots is more so just about, you know, warrior basketball, if you will, kind of getting, being assertive on that front early. And obviously I have the ball in my hand, so I get to kind of dictate what that looks like.

I want to get something out of the way, and I should have maybe done this first before I gave Holy Moly a shout out. You're aware that you have stans, right? You have a very loyal fan base, okay? And you know this because I told you this the very last time I played against you. You and Ray Allen are the only two guys that I ever asked for a piece of memorabilia from. And I said, hey man, this is the last time I'll play against you. Can I get your jersey after the game, sign it? You were nice enough to do it.

Appreciate it.

And, but there's these, these, you know, Stephen Curry fans that think that I'm a hater, like I'm a Steph hater.

And— How'd you piss them off? That's what I want to know.

See, this is— you're being an asshole right now. No, this is what it is, because you, you see everything.

You see— What I think is mostly everything.

Yeah. Yeah, you pretty much see everything. No, I think It really hit its head, sort of hit like a culmination when I was asked on First Take, who would you rather have in the clutch, Luka or Steph?

Oh yeah.

And First Take is very much a black and white thing. You can't really live in the gray.

Right.

So I chose Luka. And my gist of it was, he's got more size and this year his clutch stats are better. That was the gist of it. And for like 6—

Damn, you did it on like, 10 games of the same season?

No, this was last season.

Oh, last season. Okay. I thought this was this year.

This was like during the playoffs last season. I just literally, I was like, it was like one of those 5-minute segments and I was like, I'm gonna go look up clutch stats. Very just rational argument here. I'm like, oh, Luka's slightly better.

All right.

That's the thing.

Do you feel like you've always been that way where you've seen everything or did you develop that?

I think I developed it mostly. Trying to rationalize the chaos of like that 5-year run that we were on, you know, making the Finals, you know, really not knowing. Like that first Finals appearance, you have no idea what that level is like till you get there. And just the amount of attention, scrutiny, the mood swings and narrative changes from game to game and all that. And I was like— I'm active on social media, but not really, but— you kind of like live your life the same way you have been, you know, your entire career, and then things just change overnight and you're like, yo, what the hell is happening? There's way more conversation, way more hot takes and all type of kind of conclusions about your game. And, you know, you got your stans out there to defend you. You got people that are gonna hate on anything that you do. And before you go through it for the first time, like, at that level, you have no idea how you're gonna respond. And I found that It's nice to be aware of what's going on and also develop a sense of like comfortability in who I am because you're going to get asked about stuff. You're going to have— it's 82 games and 9 months of your life. And even now the NBA is 24/7, 365 news cycle. You want to be aware of what's going on, but I'm also so secure in like who I am and what I can do on the floor that it doesn't— I'm more— it's more entertainment at this point. Yeah. Point, because it is our world. It is, you know, what we do, and, you know, it's how the team responds to all this stuff throughout the year. So it's nice to know what's going on and have a good laugh at some stuff. But, uh, developed that over that 5-year run where you're just on that, you know, on everybody's mind in the basketball world every day, kind of, kind of, uh—

I think it was Iguodala, but I believe he said that if you have a bad shooting first half, you go on Twitter to read the comments.

That was—

Is that true?

I started that during that run, yeah. Andrew Bogut was the first one that kind of called me out on it. That's right, it was Bogut. And it's funny because he actually was kind of bold enough to ask me like, what are you— in the locker room, like, what are you looking at right now? I'm like, on my phone. And that's the thing between the eras, like I've heard like KG got pissed off at everybody who even brought their phone in the locker room to, you know, ours is a pretty loose locker room. Like everybody's either looking on your phone before the game, before the coaches meeting, in between and all that type of stuff. Like as long as you come with the right mindset when you're out on the floor, you know, nobody really cares about that. But for me, like it was, I was looking at Twitter and looking at some of the, we'll call it, hateful messages, but real strong opinions on how you're playing and all that based on— we call it first quarter Twitter. Like, it's the best, it's the best thing in the world. Like, all the Warriors suck, we're down 6 at the end of the quarter. Then third quarter happens, you're like, all right, you know, you kind of get off on that a little bit. So I enjoy it.

Did you ever have any of those that, that were like particularly crazy or like threw you off at all? You like saw it and you just couldn't believe it?

Probably. It's hard to pick one example. More so, I started to make it a game. 'Cause people would tell me like, do stuff in the second half. And I like, one of our beat writers, Carith Burke, it's probably 3 years ago. She's like, hey, if you see, she wrote on Twitter, hey, if you see this at halftime, like next time you score, like run down with like an airplane arms. Like little something like that. And I read it and I was laughing. Didn't think none of it. I made my first shot come out the halftime. I literally did it. She loved it. So little stuff like that, you just have fun with it. 'Cause it's a long season. Season, man. I got to try to have some fun as much as possible.

Is there motivation in this? I mean, I think as human beings, right, whether we're secure or not, I think having some level of awareness about the narrative around you, especially if you're a public figure, I think that's totally normal and totally healthy. No, I do. I don't have it to your level, obviously. I think it's totally normal. But do you use any of that as motivation? Or is it just fun for you?

It's both. 'Cause I mean, amount of games you've played, like sometimes the regular season, it's hard to get up. It's hard to find, you don't ever wanna be complacent in what you're doing. And me, I just, I love the entertainment value of it. 'Cause you know, it's part of the game. It's part of being in the NBA. It's part of the show. It's part of, you know, the career arc that you have from when nobody expected anything to when you're surprising everybody to now they're kind of numb to what you do and almost kind of take it for granted. So there's a lot of elements that go into it. It's kind of like a long arc of, you know, that's 14 years in the league. You can imagine the wild stuff I've read, the wild takes that I've heard about myself, the times you surprise yourself with what you do on the floor. And the fact that you can get through 82 games every year and look forward to a long playoff run and everything that comes with it, I do feel like when it's all said and done, I'm gonna miss that part of it because it is such a kind of a, you know, an emotional rollercoaster.

Speaking of celebrations, when I'm not hating on you, I've often said, I've often said that you are the greatest show on earth in terms of the entertainment value, the joy that you play with, and the joy that you get as a fan in watching you. And obviously part of that is the way you guys play. If you're a basketball purist, there's something very beautiful about seeing the ball move side to side. But the celebrations are really interesting to me. My oldest Knox just started playing. So I go to his practices and I go to his games. And I mean, Jesus Christ, man, it's after every, every single point, somebody's doing this. Somebody's doing a shimmy. Somebody's doing LeBron pushdown. I see, I like, these kids are 4'4" and they're doing the too small to each other. It makes no sense. The one I wanted to ask you about though was, is the look away 3. Yeah. Yeah. Like, where did that, do you remember the first time you did it in a game?

Yeah, it was, I wanna say it was either game 3 or game 4 of our first playoff series against Denver in 2013. And it was the third quarter, I went on this crazy run. I think I had like 20-something in the quarter. And one of the last threes was right in front of Denver's bench. Backstory, I had always heard about how amazing Oracle Arena was during the playoffs. We Believe team, couple years before we, or was it 2007 when we, when they made that run and beat Dallas, almost beat Utah after that. I had heard like that, this, this the crazy, it's already the craziest arena and it's loud in regular season and all that, but the playoffs is just a different vibe. So we got into that series, We started it, we were 6th seed, so we started in Denver, came back 1-1, and it was like, we walked out and there was this haze around over the court. Fans, like 75% full, 20 minutes before the tip-off, they're chanting Warriors. It's got a nice aroma in the building. It was just amazing, like amazing atmosphere. So you kind of get wrapped up in that. And then Third quarter happened and we go on this crazy run. I have, you know, knocking shots down left and right. And the last kind of one in the third quarter, right in front of Denver's bench, JaVale McGee standing like literally standing up the whole, it's like 5 or 6 guys around him. And get the ball in the corner and they're like, obviously you've been in that situation where you rise up and everybody just talking, you know, trash behind you. And for some reason I just got an out of body experience. I shot it. And literally as I let it go, it was like, I never felt the shot feel better than that. And I turned around and kind of looked at JaVale and then just ran off and it went in. And that was when I didn't even check to see if it went in. I just was waiting for the noise. And it was kind of a really special moment. Just, I don't know, the irrational confidence to even try that in a playoff game, but it was dope.

I was gonna ask before this, What do you get more joy out of? Like when you guys are on one of those crazy runs with where, where Orakor Chase is going nuts, or when you're in a visiting arena and you're just ripping their heart out?

I mean, they all— being at home and, and being in that kind of a run and feeling that adrenaline rush, there's nothing like it. Um, 'Cause you feel like 19,000 people feel like just, I don't know, it's hard to explain, but that's something that I think I enjoy the most, especially because of the way, like JJ said, because the way we play, usually that means the ball's humming all over the place. Everybody's feeling good, you know, kind of walking with your chest out. And it's just a fun way to play basketball on top of the atmosphere. Like, silence in the home crowd is dope. You hope to have as many opportunities to do both, but being at home is special.

Have you ever missed one of those shots in a game?

Yes. I'm sure somebody could put a YouTube compilation of that together. Compilation of the steps. But you ever see, I don't know if Knox is at the fake hustle part of his game yet where, you know, you just do like the all-out sprint back on defense. But that's my favorite when I just do it, half turn, I'm like, that's probably not going in. And then you kind of look back and I miss and then it's a whole ass down. Get in defensive position like, all right, I'm locked in, move on, next play. But yeah, I've done, if I had to guess, I'm probably like 80, 85%. That's good.

That's good.

I mean, that's not bad.

That's not bad. Live NBA game, that's fine. I did it, so '15 and '16 was when I felt like my body and shoulder mechanics and like my legs were probably the best in my career. 'Cause I had a little shoulder thing after '16, and I'd never shot the same. It was like a scapula thing, and I would raise my shoulders weird.

But those 2 years, I would do it occasionally, um, not as frequently as you could explain how good it feels though, because there's a reason you do it.

There's a reason you do it because it, it feels— the biomechanics of it are just so perfect. And because you've shot thousands and thousands of shots, you know the feeling of when it's perfect. It's, it's, it's It's not always a swoosh. Sometimes it's the one that hits kind of the back rim where the net doesn't even move.

The Larry Bird make.

Yeah, the net doesn't even move.

That's the best make there is.

But I did miss one one time, and I don't know why I did this 'cause I did it on a pull-up like 17-footer. It was like, we were playing Minnesota, and I was like, it was like a random January game in the third quarter. Like it didn't even, it was a meaningless shot. I missed it and I was like.

Why did I fucking— Did anybody call you out on it?

Oh yeah, you know, CP sees everything.

I was about to say.

The confidence, you said irrational confidence, so I'm using your words here, that irrational confidence, I think the world was sort of introduced to that during that Davidson run your sophomore year. Did you always have that irrational confidence as a player?

Funny you say that, there's a nice documentary coming out called Underrated that we're launching in January, but it kind of documents the before, during, and after the Davidson run. And a big part of it is, you know, the— I was a late bloomer as a basketball player, as a scrawny skinny kid on the end of the bench until the team ran zone and they put me in to be a zone buster type vibe. All the way through high school. Like, I was kind of a pass-first, playmaking point guard that coach, my parents, sometimes teammates had to always tell me to shoot more because it just wasn't the way I saw the game, even though I knew I could shoot. Um, but that kind of came forced when I got to Davidson because we had an amazing point guard there named Jason Richards who was team captain, team leader, voice of the team, and was an unbelievable setup guy. So I had to play the 2, and it kind of unleashed that element. He like, he made my life a lot easier, really easy, uh, when I got to college because I could run around screens. And the way that we played is, you know, motion offense and all that. And so, uh, I kind of got wrapped up in that experience, and it kind of unleashed a new way of, you know, playing the game that's very similar to how I do it now. So, um, yeah, I didn't really have There's a clip of me and my brother, and we were in Toronto when I was 12, shooting before the game. And we're, I'm like shooting from half court. And as a, you know, got the little holster shot that I used to have back then. And I tried to shoot all type of stuff. When I got in the game, it wasn't really that type of vibe of what you see now. So the, it's kind of an evolution of just, like you said, the amount of reps that you put in, the, deserve confidence of, you know, being able to go out there and take some chances, you know, play with a little bit of creativity, continue to surprise yourself and push the envelope, and then really never lose that spirit no matter how, you know, deep you get into your career. Because I've always felt like I'm still on that, on that journey.

Did you have a favorite of those tournament games?

Probably the Georgetown game. Just because I think the first one was just special 'cause we got our coach's first college, you know, our first NCAA tournament win. And, you know, he just retired after 33 years of running Davidson program, Coach Bob McKillop. And to get him that first win was amazing. But the second game we played, we played Georgetown and they were the second seed and we were down 16 in the second half and came back to beat 'em. That was, I'll never forget that energy in the building because there was a lot of Tar Heel fans in there and Georgetown had beat Carolina the year before in the tournament. So we kind of had a pseudo home game 'cause everybody hated Georgetown in the building, including the Carolina fans. And you know, to be a 10 seed and beat a 2 seed and go to the Sweet 16 was special. So that was probably my favorite for sure.

The next game, the Sweet 16 game. I think that was the game Bron was at, right? Yeah.

Yeah, we used to have, we had Witness shirts in there. They were like red Witness shirts. This is crazy.

This is what's wild to me, 'cause like at the time it's like, oh, this great story about this college kid at this small school, you know, Delson or whatever, and LeBron is at his game. I wanna kind of try to understand your mindset at the time. I mean, I don't know if you thought like, I'm going to league, I'm gonna be an All-Star. Could you ever have imagined playing against Bron in the finals 5 straight times at that point?

Nobody will ever believe it. It's just 'cause that's to your, it's a great question. That's exactly, I wouldn't, after we lost in the Elite Eight to Kansas, even at that point, I still wasn't thinking about the league. Like the first question I got in the locker room after the game was like, hey, you, declaring for the draft. I was like, what? What are you talking— like, we're in here crying, like, mad we lost. And I'm— it's the first time I really kind of contemplated, like, that would be, uh, like, that was the time. I obviously knew that that was the end goal, but it wasn't a means to an end type of situation. So to be in the tournament run, and, uh, I wish y'all could have been, like, on our team bus, like, driving up to, uh, or in, in Detroit going back and forth from the game, and you hear these rumors like, hey, I think LeBron's coming to the game. Like, what? Like, yeah, they're playing Detroit later. He asked, somebody called the Davidson staff for some tickets for Bron to sit in our section. We're like, what are you talking about? This is right, you know, it was probably his fourth year in the league. And so nobody believed he'd show up. And then we get to Ford Field and lo and behold, like right when the tip-off's coming, here comes Rich, Bron, Stephen Curry, I was trying to think who else was over there. He had like 5 or 6 people and he's there just being a fan and watching us play. So to think, fast forward, 6 years later, we'd be playing against each other in the finals and all that. It's kind of, it's just a wild experience. I still have in my dad's house in North Carolina, I still have a Bron jersey on the wall in my bedroom that he signed the next year. He came to Charlotte and I went to the game And he signed a jersey and it's like the greatest shooter in North Carolina or something like that. And he wrote and signed it and I kept it. Gave me the shoes after the game and all that. So it's still wild just to think about the journey since then. 'Cause who would've ever thought that?

Before we move on from sort of the Davidson stuff, how lightly were you recruited? 'Cause there's all these different stories about who did offer you, who didn't offer you. Virginia Tech offering you a walk-on spot where your dad played, like, was Davidson the option? Was that the only option or were there other, like, bigger schools?

There was two on my list. It was Davidson, Winthrop, and Virginia Commonwealth. So Jeff Capel was at VCU at the time. Greg Marshall was at Winthrop. And that was the list. It was during my senior year too, so we were, like, about to start. We're in the middle of preseason. Like, I think I declared, I gave a verbal commitment to Davidson probably the 1st of December. So it was pretty late in the process. But fast, like, it's crazy to think Davidson was always at the top of the list just 'cause I knew Coach McKillop. They were graduating 7 seniors my senior year of high school. So I knew the way that he pitched, like, you could, you got to earn it, but you gonna have an opportunity to play right away. And that kind of excited me just about getting my feet wet early and not have to play behind anybody no matter what level it was. And just the fit of, you know, his style of play and all that. But God has a funny sense of humor. Like, that was my list. And as soon as I declared for, declared to Davidson, after that season, Greg Marshall went to Wichita State and Jeff Cable went to Oklahoma. So they both left, not because of I didn't come, but that was just like, I would've signed up to two schools that both coaches would've left. So it's kind of just the timing and kind of the fortune of that, that I had a coach that was gonna bring the best out of me. I had a program that was technically a mid-major, but had not really had much success in the tournament. You know, on the stage. So I kind of could develop under the radar and just go through the ups and downs of becoming a college basketball player and building my confidence.

So you were mentioning this earlier, but your, your thought process between sophomore year and junior year about going to the draft or not, why'd you decide to come back after, you know, at that point the whole world sort of knew who you were and what you could do?

Part of it is just such a natural process to like the journey of, you know, freshman year, just getting your feet wet, you're playing well. I was trying to chase KD in the freshman scoring title and all that. He beat me. Then he declares for the draft. I come back, we have that tournament run, and that's really all you're focused on. Like, I'm not thinking about the NBA. It's just, how can we, you know, take that next step as a team? Then right after the tournament, I spent the next 2 months kind of gathering some information and really thinking about, like, is this something that is the right time for me? Is my— the way— is my game, my, you know, physical stature ready to make that jump into the league? And what I kind of came to was, for me to be successful on the— on the NBA level and give myself the best chance was to come back and play more point guard role. 'Cause like I said, I had Jason Richards, who's the main ball handler, and I was just coming off screen shooting. I played a little bit like backup point when he went to the bench, but I needed a whole season to kind of rep that, or get some reps as a point guard, a playmaker, but still keep my, you know, my scoring threat up. And that's all that next year was, knowing I was gonna get attention from all type of crazy defenses and all that. Yeah. I had one coach run a triangle and two just on me for, Oh, I watched games.

For 40 minutes.

I'd be like, man, like what is this guy doing in college right now? Like this is not, I actually, my thought that whole year, 'cause I probably watched 5 or 6 of your regular season games.

Yeah.

And I was like, I don't know that this is preparing him for the NBA.

I was literally just coming down, run a play.

No triangle.

He get off, he's, you know, getting the ball back, just shooting. But it was more so just, you know, being a, having the ball in my hands to, the balance, playmaking and scoring. We didn't even make the tournament my junior year. We lost to—

That's right.

We lost to St. Mary's in the NIT, which is also kind of ironic 'cause that's in Walnut or Moraga, California, which 20 minutes from Oracle Arena. So my last game was literally in my new home and had no idea. So it was dope.

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Sometimes.

No, mature, thoughtful person who I assume you have a lot of like reflection time in your life to think about this incredible journey that you've been on. Do you ever think about what-ifs? The what-ifs in your career?

All the time. Probably leading me to the, had I got drafted by New York instead of Golden State or Minnesota even. Had they picked me, not Johnny Flynn or Ricky Rubio. So definitely think about all that. Even, you know, ankle injuries early, the Monta Ellis trade, like, you know, in the league there's—

Stan versus Steve.

That part too, which is crazy. And I didn't even want Mark to get fired. So—

Yeah.

So like, there's a lot of fortune in this league. There's a lot of, you have to have an awareness of what's going on to appreciate, you know, the journey in real time. 'Cause if you fight it, like sometimes you kind of, you know, you miss your window. But then there's a lot of trust too. And, you know, specifically Bob Myers, who, you know, since I've, my second, third year in the league, since he came on in the fray and the way that he's approached the job and, you know, the good decisions that he's made and thinking and, you know, bringing Coach Kerr in, which is a really like tumultuous conversation situation. I was fighting it like hell. Like, not against Steve. I didn't want them to fire Mark for anything. And he loves the conversation that we ended up having. He's like, "I'll trust you to, you know, this is what you think is right for the team, but don't mess this up." And that's one of his favorite lines that I said to him, not knowing who they were gonna hire and all that to help us get to the next level. So Steve comes in and we win the championship the next year. But— Yeah. Definitely reflective on all those, you know, all the context of that and just the teammates that you played with, 'cause that is the stuff that you remember.

I, you know, on the Knicks front, it's sort of like when I think about if LeBron had gone to college. When I was in school when Dwight came outta high school and I know Duke was recruiting him, and I think about like certain players in certain arenas, like Dwight Howard dunking in Cameron Indoor Stadium. No, I'm serious. LeBron playing like in a, in like an ACC conference game and like taking off from just inside the, like you think about that stuff. And I, because of that MSG performance, when you had, that was sort of your coming out party in the NBA. Not that you weren't a good player before that, but that was, you know, 54 points, 11 threes. And you think about like Steph for the last 14 years in MSG, not that Oracle's not great. That's why it's like, it's so interesting to me. By the way, I looked it up. Your first game in MSG, I don't know if you remember this, was November of your rookie year.

West.

You played 2 minutes and 35 seconds and didn't score.

That's my one of my, I tell all the young guys, that's even the crew we have now. I had to go through the ropes too. That was Don Nelson put me in the rookie doghouse. And it's funny too, 'cause that game I didn't play at all. He put me in like the last 2 minutes. I got a block on David Lee. He came baseline and I trapped the box. I can't, I'm not gonna meet him at the rim. I timed it right where I kind of got up above him and I be like, get that shit down. And he looked at me and we went in transition and he came up like nose to nose with me and like said something to me. He's like, who's this freaking rookie coming out here playing garbage time, talking trash? Then next year we're teammates. It's just amazing how the league works. But yeah, I was, I rode the pine for a little bit in my rookie year too.

Is it true draft night that you almost got traded to Phoenix?

Yeah, so this is, I mean, the NBA is such a small world. Stephen Curry was the GM of Phoenix at the time. And part of the conversation leading up to the draft was, I guess Golden State didn't think I was gonna be around at 7, and whoever they drafted was gonna be part of some trade to get Amaree. To go overstate. And then as the draft was unfolding, I think Phoenix loved it even more because they were like, oh, we're gonna get Steph now. He can play behind Steve Nash for a little bit, learn the ropes. And then Larry Riley, who's the GM of the Warriors at the time, Don Nelson, I guess, changed the tune in terms of as the draft unfolded. I was, I was there at 7, so they drafted me and and kept me. I don't know all the different conversations that really happened on that front, but I know that that was a kind of a foregone conclusion going into the draft and things changed. So kind of crazy that Steve was a part of that and then 5 years later is now coaching me.

My Knox, who I mentioned, and Kai, my youngest son, they've gotten really into watching NBA YouTube highlights. And every morning they come downstairs, they watch the top 10. And anytime somebody like Kevin Durant crossed Daniel Gafford the other day and he fell, anytime that ever happens, Kai, my youngest, would be like, dad, you made Steph fall. Yo, every time. Only reason I thought of that was because you brought up the Bark Jackson. We beat you. It was game 7 in the 2014 series. And what's crazy is I didn't even do anything. Put a move on you. I just literally— I've always wanted to ask you this. I really have. So I'm like, you're in help position. I'm on the left wing. I think it was CP just swung it to me and your momentum was going this way and I just drove away against your momentum and then you hit the deck. I made the shot, but I'm like, I still haven't figured out how you felt.

Hey man, I wish I knew too, because I wouldn't have done it. It was payback.

It was payback.

I think it was game— so I say this too, this is hilarious we're having this conversation now because my defensive presence was always like the question mark, especially in the playoffs. I was gonna get picked on all the time and all that. So I started to have that like that little brother kind of syndrome of, uh, like, yo, man, stop picking on me, man. Like, I'm trying my hardest. Like, I'm out there giving effort, trying to get better. So anytime I had any type of defensive play, like, you see, like, my heart come out of my chest. I'm like, ah, yeah, I'm like looking at the bench and doing the whole thing. So I got a stop on you in Game 6, I think it was. Um, I actually got a block. So the part of it was like, I had like this reaction, it wasn't even about a shot, it was like, I gotta stop, yeah, it doesn't matter who it was. So I was like yelling, like flexing at the crowd, doing all that stuff. But, uh, then I got humbled.

No, you got home. I, I think I Yeah, I drove left over across from your bench in the left corner. And you bought it. In fairness to me, shot clock was winding down.

That's when your best moves come out when you're free. You know, you know, you got to do something. That's true.

We talked a lot about with Draymond when we had him on about a year ago. This was not the live show, but back in January we talked about because I don't really consider it a rivalry because we never won anything of significance. But we talked about that, that Clippers stuff, uh, Clippers-Warriors stuff for those few years. Um, so I don't want to get too much in that. There's two plays I want to talk about though, which happened within a month of each other in 2014.

Okay.

Um, so the first is we're in the baby blues with the t-shirts in, in Golden State. Uh, I think it's Matt Barnes, Chris Paul, Spencer Hawes, DeAndre Jordan. I'm shouting out all my guys and you literally dribbled through them.

Oh, that was my—

And Jeffrey and Gunny on the broadcast is like, I think that's the best move I've ever seen.

It didn't make any sense. 'Cause one, all those two guys that are out there, they're like in one section of the court right at the top of the key. And then there's four of us like above the three-point line. So there's just so much traffic and Bogut swings it to me, or I think Draymond swung it to me and Bogut set like this weird screen. And I just, you just go into autopilot. Like you have no, I did, I know there was 4 people there, but you don't like, every move I did was perfect. And I didn't, it just came off, went between, behind, like CP tried to swipe at it.

Yeah.

And I didn't even feel him until all that point. Like you see, my favorite thing is Coach Kerr was trying to instill like discipline in our offense and always move it, get, you know, good shot to great shot and the whole deal. So I do this whole move. And they got the camera on him and he's like, as I'm turning around to shoot, 'cause Klay's wide open on the right wing and the right play is to kick it to him, but I'm just in autopilot and I make it and he walks back to the bench. And actually Draymond's behind me and he's pointing at Klay, like pass it, pass it to him. So somebody sent me that clip afterwards and when Jeff said that, I was crying laughing. On the way home.

He said, "That might be the greatest move I've ever seen." My two favorite plays, selfishly, the first one is the fact that I was on the court, but I was not one of the guys that you dribbled through. I was in the corner guarding Harrison. And I was like, "Oh, shit." Second part of that was any rational human being, and I mean this sincerely, like any rational human being that would be willing to try a move like that, and dribble through 4 people and then safely make it through that obstacle course with their back turned to the basket, would pick the ball up. Thank God they didn't turn it over and move the ball. And you were willing to double down. You were willing to double down. And you mentioned creativity earlier, and I've said this about you. I mean this. As an observer, I have not seen a basketball player consistently get to a flow state better than you. Are there exercises you do? Is it your training? How are you able to capture that? We talked about the look away shot. That's being in the flow state, right? Yeah. Not many people ever get to that. You get to that so consistently.

I mean, you're asking for some proprietary information right now. I feel like most of it is—

I feel like Brandon Payne could give me this.

He's gonna clip the hell out of this. 'Cause that was where I was going. 'Cause a part of the training, and anybody who's watched me train in the summers, or how I approach even in-season skill work and all that, like there's a level of obsession about the details details when it comes to footwork, when it comes to balance, when it comes to, you know, how the ball is entering the back, like the rim at the right angle arc and all that type of stuff. There's a legit, you know, obsession around that. And I feel like that's been developed over the course of my life, but also, you know, year 2 in the league where I really understood the— Yeah. The unlock that can be there in terms of one, like you said, kind of being creative about how I could play, visualizing, you know, stuff that maybe I've never done before and then trying it in a skill session or practice or whatnot. That confidence that comes behind that is just— it's intoxicating. And then you get in the game, and you kind of lose yourself in that. And then you go back to the drawing board and you keep doing that over and over and over again. And I'm in my 14th year and I'm still doing it. And so it's that old like cliché, like no shot I've, you know, tried in, in the game I haven't tried in practice before. Pretty, it's pretty accurate. Like I might even have had 4 cones or 4 guys around to do that move, but I've done that dribble combination before.

Um, yeah, maybe you said the word autopilot. Yeah. And I thought that was super interesting where something like that appears to be spontaneous.

For sure. And it's muscle memory. Yeah. And it's, you've gotten your body and your mind connected before in that regard. And then it comes out when the lights are bright. So, you know, like you said, my guy B-Pain's had a lot to do with that in terms of taking my work ethic and my willingness to, you know, get in the gym and, push the envelope, being creative with me on that front. Even now, got a guy called Bergstrom who's helped me work on my body and get strong, work on my core, all the things that can take my game to the next level at the biggest stages in the playoffs when things slow down and you get into that physical tug-of-war match out there. So it's always a continued reiteration, which is why I still feel like in my 14th year, I'm still getting better, still getting more efficient. Mm-hmm. And find ways to improve even though, you know, history says you should be going the other way. So, yeah, that— I say flow, like flow state, and like just being in that flow is exactly, you know, how it's where I want to be. And when you're in that, it's— there's no other— no better feeling.

The other Clippers play we wanted to bring up was, uh, you dropping Chris. CP.

Yeah. How do you feel about that? I only laugh 'cause I love CP. We go way back to our kid North Carolina days. And it's funny 'cause when I got drafted, I spent the whole summer with CP working out. He took me around. I went on a family reunion with him to Disney World. We were working out leading up to my rookie year. So he showed me, he was one of the guys that actually showed me what it meant to like work hard in the league. You think you know until you don't know, and then you get somebody to show you. It's like, oh, that's where I got— okay, I got you. That's where I gotta get to. So he was the first one to kind of demonstrate that for me. But then I got into that, uh, that play. It's funny because how y'all used to guard me, like, I always was trying to come off the first drag screen and just pull up, and CP was so loud every possession, like, get out, get out! He's yelling at Blake or DeAndre to get up on the screen so I couldn't shoot. And every time he played you, I was like so frustrated 'cause I knew I could get to that shot against pretty much every other team, but y'all would not let me do it. So that play I hear CB yelling, "Get up, get up." So I come off and DeAndre's kind of on my hip and he lets me go. And another autopilot move, like I just, you kind of go into it. And then I saw him, I saw him fall. And then, you know, the pressure, I don't know when you dropped me, if you felt the pressure that you had to make the shot, you had to make the shot. But I felt that too. But I tried to keep a stone face. 'Cause when it went in, I had to run back like nothing happened. And I saw my bench, the whole bench go crazy. But CB was a, he was a soldier on that front. I think he texted me. I was like, yeah, you got me on that. For him to acknowledge it was hilarious though.

Well, again, like I said, I didn't actually make a move. I just drove a closeout. Shot. So it wasn't that I was like— Good discipline, Stephen Curry. It wasn't that I was like, oh, I dropped Steph, I got to make the shot. It was more like out of my peripheral, I was like, did he just fall? Oh, shit. The shot was already in the air.

It was in there.

The '15 Finals, it's something I've wanted to ask you about a long time. And we've talked to Iggy about this when he was on the pod a couple years ago. Number one, did you feel like you deserved MVP in that Finals? And number two, as sort of the one missing piece of the resume for the haters on Twitter, for the narrators on Twitter, How much did that sort of fuel you, motivate you, bother you up until this past season?

So the question I feel like, do I deserve it? For sure, because I feel like comparison, what's the saying? Comparison is the thief of joy. Thief of joy.

It's another Jeff Van Gundy quote.

Is it? I feel like, When you're in, like, that was kind of what I was kind of talking about earlier. When you get into that Finals, you don't understand the magnitude of the narrative, right? You don't really, and then when it's about you, it's, there's no better lesson than being in it. And so that 2 weeks felt like an eternity from game 1 going overtime and winning, Kyrie getting hurt, to game 2, the whole Delva Dova experience. And you know, that started the narrative of, you know, our little back and forth. Bron was playing out of his mind. Then we go to Cleveland, we're down 2-1, and it's like, oh, you're comparing, you know, my stats to other NBA or other MVPs in the Finals, other Finals MVPs. Then you get to game 3, 4, or 4, 5, 6, and we win 3 in a row and win the series. And Andre and his defense and his presence and that adjustment we made in the middle of the series, unlocking another level for us, and him playing out of his mind. Bronze still having crazy stats, but like, it's just the power of the narrative is it can distract you from what the actual goal is, right? So I felt like obviously we're not winning the Finals if I don't play the way that I played. I felt like I played extremely well. We don't win the Finals unless Andre plays, you know, the way he did. And that adjustment working and, you know, him giving us such a huge boost throughout the whole series. So we both thought we probably deserved it. I'm sure when he heard his name called, he was like, no, it's him. And if it was it'd been the same thing. But it never dawned on me like I wouldn't have another opportunity to get one or the fact that he didn't deserve it. So it's kind of a, I'm not trying to run around it. It's literally, that's how you, when you're in it, if that's how we got there, it's kind of very, it's very unique to the Warrior experience. Even when KD wins it twice, 'cause it's the same kind of conversation. Like I can go home and put my head on the pillow and know like, we're not winning unless I do my job.

Unless you go for 27, 8, and 8 both years.

Yeah, exactly.

No, you sucked, dude. You didn't win MVP, you sucked. No, actually last year I remember, I can't remember, I don't know if it was before or after Game 3.

Last year?

Yeah, this is last year. I wanna push Game 3 to later, but I don't know if it was before or after, but I remember like there were a couple days where people like, yo, if the Warriors win, man, Wiggins should get MVP. And I'm like, nah, man, what the fuck are we doing here? Like, he's playing great. And you're right, for y'all to win, Wiggins has to play great. What else are we doing here?

It's amazing. I don't know if it was like this, you know, back in the Lakers dynasty days or the MJ dynasty. I don't know. Like, I would love to go back in time and just relive the buildup to the series, the in-between games, all the different conversations. 'Cause you get bored of hearing the same stuff. You gotta kind of, you get wrapped up in the series too.

Also the legacy part of it. Right. And like—

Rewriting history in the moment.

The checkboxes, right.

Yeah.

In the moment, the checkbox. Like, we were actually having this conversation earlier about you specifically. And 'cause we brought up last year and you know, winning Finals MVP. And I was like, people wanna put Steph and Kevin and Bron, like this is where they rank all time. And I'm like, dude, Steph's 34. He's averaging a career high. Can we wait like 5 years and just see what happens?

It's like, the funny one I hear now is, you say I hear everything, it's like in my top 10. In the history of the game, right? That's the conversation. And it's like, oh, if I win that Finals MVP, like, oh, it helps. But everybody has their list and all that. And then going into this season, is he top 10 in the— who is sitting here making up, like you're talking about, who's sitting here at the gate of the top 10 list? Like, all right, we gotta check, we gotta check. Yeah. Ah, no, that right there. Doesn't have that. You're just, you're, you're— you're, like you say, you're writing history in the moment. And it's, when you talk about it, you're either gonna be all the way over here, all the way over here, and some, it's always somewhere in the middle. So the only thing about the Finals MVP this year that just made me laugh was like, I'll never hear that question again. It kind of made me sad. I'll never hear that question again. Oh, you didn't have a Finals MVP. 'Cause now I was like, well, I'll get another. It just— the goalposts changed. And that's— if you're around long enough and you're playing games that matter, that's part of it.

Does whether or not you're top 10 or top 4 or top 5 or top 2 to your— top 1 to your stands, like, does any of that matter to you?

It might down the road, just because, like you said, when it's all said and done and I'm not playing a game, then we can have a legit conversation around what does it actually mean to be top 10, how do you compare eras and all that stuff. Stuff. Of course, like, you dedicate your life to this, like, you want to be recognized as one of the greatest. I'm not obsessed about it right now because who the hell's making up this, uh, uh, the requirements. Perking me.

It's part of the other side where I get to hate on you.

I can't wait. Yeah, we'll have a microphone in 15 years and just pick my target with other current guys.

Do you have any favorite memories of the 24-0?

Oh man, that was a wild, I'm thinking about that now, that was actually insane.

Crazy time.

To think about, 24, like we're only, what are we, 6 right now, 7, we're 16 games in. The amount of team meetings we've had, the amount of drama that's been around, we haven't won a road game, like all this other stuff as it currently stands. Hopefully when you see this, we've won a game.

Hopefully when this comes out, you will have beaten Houston.

A part of it is like, that's a long time to hold, like coming off a championship to hold down like this level of excellence. 20, like 8 more games and we still haven't lost. It's wild to wrap your mind around. But we were still in that kind of F you mentality to the whole league because people were talking trash about our first championship and you know, all the injuries and all that. And all the narratives that came out of that. So we were kind of, we were more motivated than ever. But I think the memory that I got is just when it ended, 'cause we played Boston. I had a Boston-Milwaukee back-to-back game, 24 and 25. Boston game went to double overtime. We ended up winning. We got to the hotel in Milwaukee at like 4 in the morning. Had the quickest turnaround ever to get to, the arena in Milwaukee and they have 24-1 shirts like in the stands for their, whatever that section that they have that goes nuts. And they had 24 and they were just chanting it the whole game. And it's like, that's really not a dig.

It's not what you think it is.

I actually took one home after the game. I was like, yeah, I appreciate it. I mean, the other team's 24-1 at one point, so. I appreciate y'all for calling it out. But they ended up winning, obviously. We were a little slow on that. But 24-0 was crazy, think about it.

On the reflection piece, how do you contextualize or think about 2016? Because it was, again, as a peer, a competitor, as a now observer and someone who has to talk about these things, it was one of the most magical seasons in NBA history.

For sure.

You guys go 73-9. You get to the Finals again, you have a unanimous MVP season, you take this jump too in '16, where you were great in '15, MVP, all that, like you were the best player on the best team, like, but there's a jump that you made in '16. How do you sort of contextualize that year as part of your career?

It comes with a lot of emotions, right? I mean, you just explained it really well. The 73-9 chase, you're starting 24-0, coming off a championship, getting everybody's best shot and still winning. I don't know at what point we started to even talk about 73-9. I'm trying to like, it was probably right after the All-Star break. You start to think about, oh, if we win, you know, 7 out of 8 games just the rest of the way, we're gonna get there. And then it became a huge talking point, probably the last 20 games. And we carried that all the way through and actually got it done. I remember that Game set, uh, '82, two games going on at the same time. Us playing Memphis, chasing the 73rd win. Meanwhile, in LA, it was, uh, Kobe's last game, uh, playing against Utah and scoring 60, whatever he did. So just NBA was at its height. Uh, then we go through the playoff run, and I was actually here at, uh, in Houston. I slipped on the floor and busted my knee. Oh. Curry was out for however long, and then come back and Game 6 Klay was born, and OKC. Then you get to the Finals and you're up 3-1 and you're already kind of counting, you know, the win is like, oh, just get it done. Draymond suspension, all that, it kind of is a little distraction, but you're like, we still right there, we're about to be two-time like defending champs back to back and the whole vibe. And know how it ended, what I say about that 3-1 situation is I've never seen two guys play at that level.

For three straight games.

Three straight games. It was the craziest thing I've ever seen. Like, Bron and Kyrie were just on. Like, we played well, they just played better. And it was hard to watch and be in that vibe where you couldn't do anything about it. You know, we still had an opportunity to win Game 5 and 7 down the stretch. And then the Kevin Love possession, which is one of my, like, if there's like one play, like, I know I should have done something different, it's that one. It was like, there's way more, there's way more time on the clock than I thought. Me trying to answer Kyrie's 3 over me was kind of in my head. And, you know, you force up a shot and You kind of lose momentum and they, they win on your home floor. But you can always tip your hat to somebody who just outplayed you. And that's what they did for 3 straight games. So the whole season was, was insane to think about all the experiences we had. The fact that we have a 73-9 banner in our practice facility, but no NBA Finals banner that year still hurts. But, uh, Yeah. You know, it's part of the journey. And every time I see Kyrie, every time I see Bron, like there's that respect of, you know, those 5 years were crazy, or 4 years playing against them were crazy. Just fast forward to '17, I think game 1 of 2017 was the best basketball that's ever been played. Like on both sides, everybody was at peak form. It was the most intense, most exhilarating game I've ever played in. It was the first game of the finals. So all that stuff. Yeah.— you remember pretty vividly.

That run, how exhausting was that? Did it take its toll? No, that whole, that 5-year stretch.

Oh yeah.

Just playing, because I think, again, I did one Finals, I didn't win a chip, but I just remember it was like playoffs, different, second round. Different.

Conference Finals, different. Then you got the All-Star break.

Finals, Super Bowl. Like, Super Bowl. And you guys did that 5 straight years.

Bron did it 9 straight years, right? Is that right?

8 straight years?

Yeah, 8 straight years. With 3 different teams, but 8 straight years. So yeah, it brought the best out of us. I call it exhausting for sure, but you always met the moment. Like you, and you, you surprise yourself with what you can kind of stir up in terms of that competitive energy. The fact that over those 5 years, uh, I think we played over 100 playoff games, so we played more than a season than anybody who didn't make the playoffs those 5 years. It's just— and that's not just the actual games, but the intensity is, you know, 2, 3 times what it is in the regular season. The preparation mental focus you got to have once you put your body through all that. But we always met the moment. So that it begs the question, like, after 2019 Finals, KD gets hurt, Klay gets hurt, we lose to Toronto. Then that next fall I get hurt, I break my hand, miss that season. We had the COVID season, and then we come back and, and win this year. Like, did we need that break? And it's a hard question to ask. I felt like we could have kept— if everybody was healthy, we could have kept meeting that moment. Meeting that level. But it also, it did help, like, to have a nice little, you know, restarting and figure out what was necessary to get back to that level. But yeah, it's crazy to think about just the games that you played, the, uh, the competition and the intensity of those games on the court, um, and how you surprise yourself of what you can kind of bring, you know, to the table and, you know, throughout that journey.

A lot of people, players included, coaches, you know, fans of course do this a lot, but when you add a piece to a team or they make, you know, a team makes a trade and all of a sudden there's a, you know, a media day photo of 3 players and you see, and it's like, oh, it's scary. You know, I think Harden said scary hours or that team's gonna be scary.

My favorite.

Whenever I think of the KD Warriors, I think of Spencer Hawes, because this dude, when we're playing cards, anytime he has a good hand, he always says, "Y'all are so fucked." And I'm thinking about like y'all getting KD and coming off what you've just done the prior 2 years and just being like, man, Y'all are so fine.

I got a funny story for that. So that summer, KD's, it was what, July 1st, whatever. I think maybe 3, 4 weeks after that, Drake was performing at Oracle. So we go to the concert and it's one of those like situations where stage is up here, we're kind of back here in like the little VIP section, whatever. It's like me and Draymond, I think KD was there. We're all kind of just, nobody, everybody knows we're there, but it's not like a big deal. It's just freaking Drake. So Drake's performing and he gets on this, like, I don't even know what it's like, a lift that takes him around the arena so you can kind of see the fans and have that moment. So as he's going around, he sees us down there, but he doesn't really acknowledge it. He goes past and he's like, yo, we're in Oracle Arena. It's crazy. Y'all the champs. I know it was a tough year, man. Y'all got, y'all got Steph, Draymond, KD now. Oh, uh, uh, number 11. So we all started laughing. It was like, he, he was just in the moment. My brother was with us. So Seth's with us and after we get in the car on the way home, he's like, "Man, man, y'all cheating." 'Cause the fact that Drake didn't know Klay's name.

Yeah, right.

He's like, "Y'all had so many names." That was my favorite, like Seth just acknowledging that vibe that you talking about with Spencer. He's like, "Bro, the fact that he went through the whole roster and got to Klay was like, number 11, like game 6." That's amazing. I was laughing.

What was the basket— when he got there, we've talked about this with him a bit, we talked about Draymond too, but when he got there at first, having just been through these wars against him, what was like the basketball fit like immediately? Like pre-playoff?

Those are all conversations that we talked about. 'Cause it's, I mean, he even said it just recently, like, you put me with anybody, I can play with anybody. There's a lot of other context, but like that's who, how he plays. We knew that going in, there was gonna be a little sacrifice trying to figure out where shots were gonna go. Funny part is we always thought like, Draymond's such a great playmaker, point forward type vibe. I was like at 17, 18 shots. Klay was about the same. KD was like right around 20. So you're counting up the shots in the game and like, who's gonna have to make the biggest sacrifice? And at first it was actually me, 'cause I was, Draymond was making he's a playmaker and I love to, you know, set off-ball screens and run around and use the gravity and all that. We were creating great shots, but I would— I didn't have a natural flow on the offensive end until probably after Christmas, the Christmas Day game. So, but a lot of the confidence that we could figure it out is because we all knew how to play basketball. We had, you know, high IQ. Nobody really needed to be ball dominant. And so it would mesh pretty well, and we had a lot of confidence that we could do that. Um, and then you go through the season, you figure it out. Uh, funny part is, it's kind of like last year where you have this idea of what our peak basketball is, but KD got hurt the last 2 months of that season, or 6, maybe 6, 8 weeks of that season, and, uh, he came back right before the playoffs. So we had to go into the most important time of the year without like having those reps. And so you still have a little bit of uncertainty around how it's gonna look.

I felt really bad for you guys.

I was trying, I was trying.

You knew as soon as you started.

In our locker room, we were trying to figure it out. No, I'm just playing. But that's like part of the— Come on. We were trying to figure it out and thankfully we did.

Oh man, my favorite, I was laughing at first when you first started talking about guys adding up shots, 'cause I remember, I remember, I don't know if it was like September or media day or sometime in the preseason, but they asked Klay about it, about like sacrificing. It's like, are you worried you're not gonna get as many shots? And Klay's like, I ain't sacrificing shit. I'm like, I'm shooting 20 times a game. Yeah. I think that's, that's Clay.

That's Clay, baby.

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As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from their entire catalog, including the latest bestsellers and new releases. Members also get full access to a growing selection of included audiobooks, Audible Originals, and podcasts. You can download or stream our included titles all you want. Right now, I'm listening to The Nature of the Game by Mike Keiser. Everybody knows I love golf. Mike Keiser built Bandon Dunes as well as a number of other courses. It's been a fascinating listen. Let Audible help you discover new ways to laugh, be inspired, or be entertained. New members can try it free for 30 days. Visit audible.com/oldman or text oldman to 500-500. That's audible.com/oldman or text oldman to 500-500. I'm gonna go with 500-500 to try Audible free for 30 days. Audible.com/oldman. Um, the culture of the Warriors and culture is this buzzword in the NBA. Uh, execs use it a lot. Coaches, players, everybody talks about culture and Steve has talked about it. And recently with the Draymond Jordan thing, he called it, I think, the biggest crisis. When KD's last year with Draymond, that was a crisis. I'm sure there are other ones that aren't public. I'm sure there was stuff that happened early on with Steve as you guys were figuring him out. But your guys' culture, the fabric of that has never torn. And I have this theory about superstars, and this is not a knock on any other superstar I've played with, but there's a few anomalies to me. I think you, I think Jokic, I think Giannis, Tim Duncan was this way. It's great to have culture drivers like Patty Mills, but ultimately, if your superstar is the main guy driving the culture, that's kind of the reason the culture doesn't break. Am I off base on that?

No, I mean, not having been around those other guys, um, I think you're right. You're right on, on it in terms of just understanding that What's expected of me every night performance-wise, the lead by example type where it's a little out of context for what Michael said about, or MJ said in his documentary about not expecting anybody else to do something he wouldn't necessarily do on the court and the work and all that. Like, there's an element of that. There's an element of awareness of the value of everybody in the locker room. Like, Yeah, the narrative might be, this is my team and you're carrying this load and where would they be without you? Coach does an amazing job from the first day he came in preaching this, the strength in numbers, you know, tagline. But I try to communicate as often as possible how much I need everybody in the locker room to perform and do the, play their role and that we'll all get, proper acknowledgement throughout the process, um, because that's how I, I see things and how I try to live it out on a daily basis. And I feel like that goes a long way for the guys that either have come into our, our, uh, our team, like the JaVale McGee's and Nick Young's and, uh, Zaza Pachulia's, and the guys that are kind of the glue pieces and, and have been around but haven't won, and they come in and they see how we operate. And they believe in what we're doing, believe in how I, my leadership style. Like I'm not the most vocal guy running in like mother effing people in the locker room or having to dominate, you know, whole court every day. But it's a—

That's what Draymond's for.

Exactly. And we have a great kind of, you know, chemistry on that front. 'Cause the things he needs to say that I can't really communicate in the same or articulate in the same way. There's a level of walking that out and doing it on a daily basis. That's my job. And, you know, the confidence that that builds for everybody, uh, throughout, throughout a season. So yeah, I, I, um, acknowledge the role, I respect it, um, and win or lose, like, you really understand the dynamic that I can go out and drop 40 every night and you're not gonna win shit unless you have guys that play their role and actually believe in what they're doing. Because that stuff is very fragile in the league because there's a lot of different distractions that can kind of creep in on that.

Yeah, I look at, I look at a part of a coach's role in the NBA, obviously the X's and O's, dealing with the media, certainly dealing with star players, but having the 15th guy have— and this is, this is not only the role of the coach, but this is the role of the star player as well. I think having the 15th guy feel a sense of ownership in the team, having the 15th guy feel empowered, and it's hard to do, man. And you got to have the right guys to do it. But— and that's where you guys have, I think, done a great job. You consistently brought in those glue guys. And— But it's hard to do. And what you guys have built is I mean, beyond just the talent, like what you've built culture-wise is remarkable. Did you see, by the way, the people on Twitter that were questioning your leadership when you had your hands on your shorts?

No, I missed this one. When I had my hands—

This was a thing. When the video got leaked.

When the video got leaked. Oh, the Draymond thing? Yeah.

Did you see this?

No, but I'm trying to go back to the moment where I'm like, what are we fucking doing here, guys?

People say anything though.

'Cause I didn't understand. I had my hands on my shorts, so I didn't respond quick enough. Yeah, whatever.

I mean, whatever it was, dude, I don't know.

But part of it, yeah. I mean, yeah, I guess you're liable to, I actually didn't hear that one, which was, thank God, 'cause that would've pissed me off.

This is some stuff, all right.

Me off, but a part of it is, yeah, you're gonna be in that situation where you get critiqued about every single thing. Even there's one I've, during the season when I broke my hand, Draymond was the only one of the core that was still playing. And there was a play, I can't remember what it was, somebody airballed a shot or something. I'm standing up like trying to like be supportive, but he airballed it. And I'm like, my face just went stale and I'm just staring like, what the hell is going on? But I kind of froze and the camera's just on me. The whole time. So then they put me like, oh, I'm embarrassed with this, the Warriors, the state of the Warriors right now. This, uh, you know, just kind of trying to put me against the team in terms of like, oh, Mr. High Mighty over here, and this on the court. And it's like those situations, the culture has to take precedent over everything else because they're going to try to poke, they're going to try to position you in certain ways, um, just because the opportunity is there. So I gotta be aware of all that too.

When we had Iggy on last year, he was talking, we were talking about some of your crazy in-game shots and he was basically, we were like running through a bunch of them and we've hit on some of them already, but he was talking about you in practice and he was like, you guys don't understand like Steph in practice, like this kind of shit you do in practice is at a so much crazier level than anything you've done. Is there anything that stands out to you in terms of like you did this and maybe there's not even video of it or anything like that, but it's just that it's like particularly memorable.

There's— I mean, the joke is kind of an everyday thing where you just try random stuff, you know, shooting like one-hand slingers from 94 feet that I've made and like called it. Uh, like we'll bring in the huddle, whatever, you're like walking towards half court, you throw it behind your back and it goes in. There's one during, uh, open practice our last season at Oracle. So 2018-19 season. And we were doing our normal warmup stuff and the fans are in there and the whole deal. And coach is talking on the PA system and all that. And we like bring it in to go do some warmups and stuff. And I was at half court and I just, the ball kind of came at me and I just picked it up and threw it behind my head and it went in. Like nobody else was watching.

There's a video of this.

Yeah, that's my favorite one. Just 'cause like the shot and I make it and you see my reaction like, oh, and Quinn Cook's right there and like, jumping up and down, but nobody else on the team had any idea what was going on. It was just my little—

It doesn't make any sense. There's no world where this should go in.

Little stuff like that. But like I told him, it's whatever. I mean, we're in the gym all freaking day and practicing, whether it's summer training or, you know, practice shootarounds, games and all that, you're gonna try stuff just 'cause, you know, I still have fun playing basketball. Like that for me is the thing that I hope to never ever lose. No matter all this drama of the business and wins and losses and all that, like, I still get lost in the game. And when you have a ball in your hands, it's just a different energy that I have, and I want to keep that for as long as I can.

I do love the joy that NBA players get from making stupid shots. Like, it doesn't actually make sense.

You're still kids, man. Like, you're kids. You're literally just kids. We're just kids playing a game.

That's all it is.

That's all it is. Bill Russell used to say that, like, he could never really rationalize the business of the NBA because he's like, this is literally grown kids getting paid to play a game. And that was his perspective, which protected him from all the other stuff that was going on in society at the time. And just rationalizing, like, why is he in this situation? I think it's a healthy kind of perspective 'cause it, It reminds you of how blessed you are to be doing what you're doing. It reminds you, you know, there's so many things that you can't control in this league and injuries and whatever the case is in terms of what's going on with the team and all that. But you're playing basketball, man. It's mad fun.

The benefit to players in today's NBA is that everybody has a camera and every arena has cameras in it and the tracking. So you don't really miss shots made. My rookie— I don't know if they did this when your rookie year, my rookie year, whenever shootaround would end, everybody would kick the ball as far as they could up into the stands and then you'd have to go retrieve the balls.

Yep.

So Turk had a pretty decent leg. I'm gonna be honest with you.

He didn't make other bowl?

He didn't make upper bowl, but he made second bowl.

Okay.

So we're in Detroit, second bowl, and I go chase it. I throw all the other balls back and I go chase it.

And they're like, "Shoot it, shoot it." I'm like, "I can't hear you." No, I'm fucking with you.

I was like, "All right, I'll shoot it." And I'm like at half court in the second deck and I take the ball and I mean, you know, I play baseball, I can throw the ball. So I just, I threw it one-handed as far as I could. And I was like, "Oh shit, that's going in." And it swished in. With such force and it's a regret of mine that that was not caught on camera. This is 2006. Like it didn't, it didn't, there's no video evidence of it.

Oh.

Before we let you go, game 4 of the past finals in 2022, this past year, as someone who has watched you be a kind of like a dickhead on the court, with your antics and all your celebrations, like in a loving way.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don't have to sugarcoat that 'cause that's part of the, so I know you're gonna get to that question, but people ask me, there's a fine line between confidence and cockiness, right?

Yes.

And you just like dickhead in terms of my reactions and mannerisms and all that. Like I'm sure that's how people interpret it on the same. And then obviously the Warrior fans like, oh, he's just, he's just had pure joy, having fun. Like, he's just expressing himself. So you get both sides of it. But it's amazing, like, it's, it's just authentic in terms of me just enjoying myself out there. I get it's going to be— it probably is— it's just dickhead behavior a lot of the time. Even the turnaround shots where you're like looking at people.

Yeah.

Wild balls and there. But anyway, sorry, go ahead.

No, I'm glad you clarified that. You recognize there is a line and you're always toeing the line, which side. But I don't remember you ever showing sort of the, not the joyful antics, but the emotional antics. I don't ever remember watching you show that in the first quarter of a game. And you did that in game 4.

Why? You're right. That was kind of an intentional way I approached that game specifically because it's kind of the through line of the last 3 years. And watching injuries happen to my teammates, myself, go through a year where you hear all the doubts of we'll never be back there. At that level, just to fight to make the play-in tournament the year before, and what it took to give ourselves some life. And then fast forward to last season where you believe you can get there, but you really don't, you don't know because it's a new crop of guys. It's, you know, the older version of us. And there's just a lot of question marks and then you stay in the moment, plot your way through it, play at a high level, get to the finals. And I have so much experience in that setting. Obviously, you know, that was the 6-1, and it was different because it was Boston. It was in that hostile environment. And it was different because we were tested in a way that, you know, was new. And A lot of it was, you know, to protect like the core we have, like we have so much trust in what we all bring to the table. When you see this fan base or whatnot, like go at one of your guys and like constantly just berate him and cross the line and do all that, you know, type of stuff. And we lose game 3 and you're in that environment, it's like, holy shit, like this is gonna be a dogfight. Like we knew that going in, but this was a different element of emotional like response that we hadn't, really, you know, seen before. So Game 4 is like, one, you know how big the game is. You lose that game— well, first off, we already, according to ESPN, we're already 84% underdogs in the, uh, in the finals. So now go down 3-1, you might as well just— you might as well not even play after that. So you know how big the game is, but then you get into that, um, into the first quarter, and we're already down, I think, like 12-4 or something like that. We slowly gained some momentum. I think we were down, I don't know, I hit that one shot and I started like yelling at the crowd. I was like, this is gonna be a different motherfucking game. I said that. My mama got mad at me because of my word choice. And I was like, you're right. But I was just unleashing a different level of like, I'm here, like we're here. And— Yeah. Y'all ain't gonna just have this, uh, you ain't gonna count the parade already in terms of, you know, the 19,000 people that seem to be in unison on what they were saying every single possession. Like, it was like, we're here and we're gonna respond and, you know, see what happens. And a lot of people talk about just the way that we play, like it's free-flowing and it's poetic and there's a lot of movement and, you know, high-level skill and all that, but you got to have You know, that we have the most competitive guys. Draymond complimented Klay. Klay's like one of the most competitive guys that I've ever played with because he wants it so bad. And Draymond the same, I'm the same, Andre's the same. And so just required another level of response from us. For me, I wanted to lead that even though we were still down in the first quarter. I was like, I don't know really what I'm talking about, but let's go. And it kind of manifested a 3-game run that was for the books. And Game 4 was definitely my favorite game of my career because of the stakes that were a part of it and the fact that, you know, we lose that game, who knows if we ever, you know, have a chance to win a championship again.

We were talking earlier about you breaking Ray's record at MSG last year. Have you had a chance— it's been obviously, there's been so much going on. Have you had a chance to have just like a little bit of perspective on that, but then also just on how you sort of changed the game overall? And a lot of people have commented on this over the years, but it's an objectively true thing, but it's also like you're living it. So you might not be able to sort of look at it while you're sort of in the middle of it.

A little bit more wisdom's come since I've been in my 30s where I understand like this isn't going to be around. I'm not going to be able to play forever. You get a little bit more reflective, I think, in terms of all the things that have gone into your success, the way that the game has changed, and the fact that when I got into the league, like, that was never a goal. It was just, I play the game the way that I play. I stretch the envelope and have a different level of creativity, and you start to shoot from deeper, build your range out. You add the ball handling and shot and space creation and all that stuff to it. And then you start to see teams be designed differently. You start to see guys that never really prioritized 3-point shooting go to the lab in the summer and try to add it to their game. And then every coach is like, no, not yet, just hold on to that. But, uh, everybody's like really opening up their mind to what that could look like for them. Um, then you got guys, you know, like what Dame's doing, what Trae Young, how he plays, you know, there's similarities in terms of like what you see inspires you to either add some form of it to your game or open up the possibility, like, hey, that I can do that too, kind of vibe. So, um, I'm a little bit more reflective on that, and it, it's, it's really, it's really dope. But I never let it get too far because, like you said, I'm still, um, I'm still in it and still feel like there's another level to get to. Efficiency for me is always the biggest thing. Like, how long can I keep up this volume and efficiency balance that, um, I, I obsess over a lot. So you do?

Yeah, 70% true shooter.

I don't even know what that even means. Like, the— I know the number, I don't know how they— it's just analytics behind it.

It was like 2-pointers, 3-pointers.

So if it's above 65, you're doing something good.

If you're If you're the first, if you're the guy though, what are you seeing? 'Cause you said you ultimately become what you see. Like, I think there is a, Dame is more your contemporary, but I think there's a lineage from you to Trae, right? Who was that lineage prior to you?

It was combining Steve Nash and Reggie Miller as like players. That was exactly, I love watching them play, but when I got to high school and then my first year at Davidson, can you be as lethal with the ball in your hand as you can without the ball, or vice versa? And those two guys are like the models of like watching Nash just be a pick-and-roll master and all the different passes he would make, his tight handle, and he wasn't the most athletic guy. Like, I could resonate with that. Reggie, you know, played against my dad, so every time he played against him, I just— you know how you watch the game and you can only watch one guy and your eyes— I can't watch anything. If Reggie was on the court, I could not watch anything else. I just watched everything he did, his angles he took, the deception, the wild push-offs he'd have, and he'd run the other way. Like, all that stuff, uh, I was just a fan of. And I— it became pretty clear when I understood my skill set that I could have meshed those two guys as like a baseline of how I wanted to play and then take it from there, um, throughout your career and kind of building or hanging your hat on that style of play. um, because I feel like I am as lethal off the ball, obviously, as I, as I am with, with it in my hands.

Now, that's what separates you from every other— I said this actually last night on the Broad Podcast. I was like, there's a lot of great shooters. You're the best shooter ever, but like, there's a lot of great shooters, and then there's like you, because you do everything that every other dominant good player does, and you shoot the ball great. You know, you're, you're, you're You can iso, you can play out of pick and roll, you can be a facilitator, you rebound at a high level, you guard at a high level. That's, I mean, I couldn't do any of those things, you know. I couldn't, I'm sorry. I could shoot. I could shoot. We could probably do another hour and a half, but you got a game tomorrow. We do appreciate the time. This has been awesome, man.

Really, really great. I just happened to walk by the room and I just heard you in here. I didn't know we had an appointment.

It's a weird coincidence.

Is that JJ's voice?

We ended up in Houston somehow. All right, appreciate it, bro. Absolutely.