Buyer habits with CMOs Doug Scott (Twitch), Catherine Dutton (Atos), Jonathan Bottomley (Ralph Lauren), Steven Wolfe Pereira (Encantos), Teresa May (American Woodmark) and Harold Weghorst (Lenzing)

Hello and welcome to the How CMOs Commit podcast. I'm Margaret Molloy, Global Chief Marketing Officer of Siegel+Gale. This is a podcast to explore how the world's top CMOs are building their brands and the professional commitments they are making as leaders. This podcast is a recording of our Future of Branding series. From the decisions facing CMOs to the commitments they are forging, the conversations are uniquely vulnerable and strategic. Please be sure to listen to the end when I provide my reflections. This is How CMOs Commit. Hello and welcome to Siegel+Gale Future of Branding Roundtable. Every episode, we meet leading CMOs to explore how they are building their brands. I'm your host, Margaret Molloy, Global Chief Marketing Officer of Siegel+Gale. Siegel+Gale is a preeminent brand strategy, design, and experience firm, and today we are talking about habits. Habits are widely understood as repeated, mostly automatic actions that are triggered by contextual cues. Once established, habits become routines that require little prior thought. Understanding buyer behavior and cultivating the habits that we desire of buyers has long been the bedrock of marketing and an outcome of successful brand building. But what happens when a global pandemic disrupts all contexts? To explore this, I am joined by six CMOs from across the world, across B2C and B2B models. I'll open today with today's in a word question. I will then have individual conversations with our CMOs. I will return for the commitment round, and as ever, conclude with my reflections. Let's meet our CMOs with today's opening question. And audience, we invite you to respond in chat or on Twitter using #FutureOfBranding. Here is our question: in a word, what is most effective when it comes to brand building today? So let's begin by going to California to greet Doug Scott, CMO at Twitch. Good morning, Doug. And what is your word?

Good morning, Margaret. Thanks for having me here today. In a word, the most effective thing when it comes to brand building is community.

Okay, so from California, let's go to Manchester to greet Kat Dutton, Global VP of Marketing at Atos.

Hi, Margaret. Yeah, hi. My word would be consistency.

Okay, next is back to New York City to greet Jonathan Bottomley, EVP and CMO at Ralph Lauren, or Ralph Lauren depending on where your accent skews. Hello, Jonathan.

Hi there. I'm fairly certain it's Ralph Lauren, but just— but yeah, my word would be— look, it's not easy to distill it, is it? But My word would be personalization.

Marvelous.

So I know someone who loves personalization, who is also with us this morning from LA, Steven Wolf Perriere, CEO and co-founder of Encantos. Buenos días, Steven.

Muy buenos días, Margaret. I could not agree more with Jonathan, but I will do a derivative of that and I will say subscription.

Subscription. Okay, let's now please go to Nashville, Tennessee to greet Theresa May, CMO of American Woodmark.

Hi, Margaret. So my word would be emotion.

Emotion. And finally, heading to Amsterdam to greet Harold Weghorst, Global VP of Marketing and Brand at Lensing Fibers Limited.

So Margaret, my word would be transparency.

Marvelous. Well, a great variety of words there to keep in mind as we go through this conversation around brand building and habits. Let's begin with Doug Scott, CMO of Twitch. So Twitch is the world's leading live streaming video platform, popularized by gamers, including 2 in my household, and increasingly popular with musicians, chefs, and other passionate content creators. When I think of Twitch, Doug, I certainly think of community, a very engaged community, and an interactive posture. Tell us what your brand stands for and why in particular you emphasized community.

Well, yeah, community sits at the very core of Twitch. It's really what it's about is creating communities around shared interests. It really is someone who's passionate about something basically sitting there and talking about it to the world, and then a community starts to form. And I think the really interesting thing about Twitch is we often get lumped into a category of like other online video products like YouTube or TikTok or Netflix. But the truth is, is the experience is completely different emotional territory. Because yes, while you might be watching online video, what you're really doing is participating in chat. And what that ends up— what ends up happening is you start to build real relationships, not only with the streamer who interacts with chat and their viewers, but also with the other members of the community in chat. And as a result, you end up building like strong, real human bonds with these people. The weird thing is, is that when you get a go-live notification from a streamer that you like, your first instinct is not like, oh, I got to pop in and see what they're streaming today. Your first instinct is you have to pop in and say hi.

Yes.

And that's a very different emotional territory than the traditional sort of consumption of online video. And that's really what's at the core of Twitch.

And Twitch has been experiencing explosive growth in this COVID period. I'm curious to see from your vantage point, are the habits of the new Twitch users similar or different from the pre-COVID community, as it were?

Yeah, I mean, obviously it's not for reasons that anyone would have wanted, but Twitch has exploded over the last, you know, 9 months. We're about 2 million average viewers at any given moment on the site. Our daily visitors have gone from about 17.5 million before the COVID pandemic to about 27 million per day now. So it's, it's been a material growth factor for us. And the interesting difference that we've seen, I think when you see that kind of growth, you would sometimes expect a lot of it to be people just sort of trying out the service and then see them sort of wash out. We've seen the opposite. Retention has actually gone up. And that's one of the reasons why I feel community is such an important vector here is that in this moment, people are really looking for ways to connect with other people. They're looking for communities where they can have that human touch and that human component. And that's what Twitch has been able to provide people during this time. And we've seen, you know, retention, sort of long-term retention increase along with the growth in users, which is kind of counterintuitive. It's not what you'd expect, but people need connection more than ever right now.

Now, in my experience, gamers are early adopters of a lot of technology. But there seems to be nothing inherent in the Twitch platform that would render it just a gaming solution. So what are you seeing in terms of the different channels and, you know, beyond gamers, if you will?

Yeah, you touched on it in the intro, but we've seen tremendous growth in a bunch of what we would call new verticals outside of gaming. I mean, gaming is still the core of the experience on Twitch. And as you note, gamers tend to be very early adopters of new technologies, and that's certainly been the case With Twitch. That said, when I was talking about what makes Twitch Twitch and describing it, I never said the word game at all in that moment. There is nothing inherent in the need to connect to other people around shared interests that has anything to do with gaming. It literally can be anything that someone's passionate about. And I can guarantee you that somewhere out there across the internets, there are going to be other people who are into that too and are going to relate to you in that way. So you're absolutely right. We've seen tremendous growth. You noted music. Music has been a huge area of growth for us.

Yeah.

Musicians are particularly needing ways to effectively perform and connect with their, their passionate fans in this time. And Twitch is pretty much tailor-made for that. So that's been a big category of growth. And there's been a bunch of other things too. We were talking about, about a partnership we have with Burberry. So fashion brands are starting to find Twitch as a place where really, really vibrant communities can form and you can have a consistent touchpoint with them.

And of course, you have all that monetization well built on the back end. So it does provide an elegant solution for live musicians who don't have that opportunity right now in venues?

Yeah, I think one of the things that's really interesting that people sometimes underestimate is that— and this is true for every market that I've ever known on the B2C side— is that a small core of users ends up driving a significant portion of revenue. I recently came out of the mobile gaming industry before Twitch, and that was certainly the case in that industry, that you had a handful of very core users driving the vast, vast majority of the revenue of those games. And I think that that's true for many, many, certainly entertainment providers. And it's true for musicians. So for musicians, if you have, say, 100 people that are tuning in regularly to your Twitch broadcast, just 100, you can make a very good living off of that if you're doing it on a relatively consistent basis, which is what most people on Twitch do a couple of times a week. So that core, that core user base is so critical.

And explain for people who may not be as familiar how that works from a cash flow standpoint. So there are bits, there's subs. How does the dynamic— how does the artist get paid?

Yeah, there's 2 primary revenue sources for creators on Twitch. One is advertising. So we run advertising. We have a great advertising business that's growing dramatically right now. And then there's commerce. On the commerce side, you mentioned the 2 primary vectors, one of which is Subscriptions, which is where there are 3 tiers of subscriptions and people can subscribe to a channel, which means that they're going to pay $4.99 or more depending on which tier of subscription they, they subscribe to per month. And that basically goes largely to the creator and helps drive their monetization. The other area is bits, which is sort of a way to sort of tip a creator in the moment. And you can just type that right into chat. And it's essentially like each bit is roughly a cent and it goes straight to the, goes straight to the creator.

Doug, what habits do you see persisting post-pandemic in terms of engagement on the platform?

Well, one of the things that drew me to Twitch in the first place— I've been in the gaming business for a long time, so I've been aware of Twitch from its very beginning. But the thing that I've really realized about live streaming is that I think very few people, when you look at the grand scheme of The potential audience for live streaming, many, many people have not yet experienced it. They've either because they maybe they're not into games and they're like, oh, that's a gaming thing, or they think it's just for you know younger people or something like that. And that couldn't be further from the truth. Live streaming in that sense of community and connection that you get when you find that that right streamer and that right community for you around an interest you share is incredibly universal. I think in terms of its appeal, and so just the vast majority of people haven't experienced it. So in terms of What will happen when, when this pandemic is over? And I think we're all looking forward to that day. I actually think that a lot of the people who found Twitch during the pandemic will stay and will probably act as an accelerant to future growth for the service because the addressable market is actually just so, so huge for the experience. And a lot of people have not experienced it yet.

Indeed.

And I think some of us experienced it with that live streaming of the presidential debate. Very interesting application.

Yeah.

Even, even more with AOC's stream when she got on and played Among Us, uh, that was 500,000 people watching at the same time.

So remarkable. Well, thank you for that, Doug. And I would encourage anyone who's looking at platforms to really keep an eye on Twitch because a lot of what's happening in gaming portends to marketing in general. At least gamers tend to be at the front end of experience. So from games to B2B, Kat Dutton, Atos, Significant B2B company, multinational company, technology services, over 110,000 people in 73 countries around the world. So, Kat, you said consistency. Tell me about your purpose and why that word came to mind.

Yeah, so, so as an organization, our purpose is really to help design the future of the information space. And a lot of our expertise and services really support that kind of development around knowledge and education and research. and really about kind of contributing towards development of scientific and technological excellence. So in simple terms, we really focus on digital transformation and supporting organizations in that. I guess I chose the word consistency because I just think it's really important, particularly in the current climate, that people can rely on a brand and that they trust it and that they know what it stands for. I think, you know, we're having so much uncertainty in the world, that sort of sustainability and that consistency and Reliability is really paramount for people. I think, you know, being able to sort of adapt your brand message to reflect what's happening without losing that kind of true identity and the value that your customers kind of know you for and trust you for, and being authentic in that message is really key. I think, you know, we've all seen far too many examples this year where brands have really tried to capitalize on the pandemic as a topic and not done that successfully because they've really kind of strayed away from what their brand's about. And I think having that consistency and that authentic, you know, authenticity in your brand is really important.

Now, I know in your industry, sales calls and live events are critical from a pipeline standpoint. What habit changes are significant there? Obviously, no or fewer live programs and sales calls. What are you seeing there from a habit perspective of your buyers?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, we've all sort of had to make this mad switch to really running events sort of virtually, and I think there's been a bit of a scramble for people to do that. I think what's also really interesting is that from a buyer habit perspective, you know, we've seen sort of differences depending on the industry that that client is in. So within government, we've seen sort of, you know, big kind of freezes in terms of making decisions, whereas in Other industries, particularly, you know, like financial services, we've actually seen sort of increase actually in terms of some of that decision-making and people just being more receptive in those industries to holding events and discussions with us online. So it's been really interesting to see that kind of shift and that change actually in terms of how people are really interacting with each other. But I think, you know, in some industries people are definitely more receptive to Speaking with people online, and I think we're almost hitting that point now of people getting a little bit of fatigue with doing kind of, you know, different virtual events. I think people are ready to get back into the physical workplace and really see people. And I think picking up on what Doug said, having that, you know, it's that human touch, isn't it, of really seeing people and being engaged and being part of the community.

And in terms of that evolution of habits, how does that play into your growth agenda?

I think one of the things that, you know, we've really seen is, is obviously people being able to work from home more. So, you know, having that flexibility and that bigger reliance on digital, I think, will definitely remain. People have really kind of adopted that approach now. They're interacting more with each other through video. You know, we're doing this session today via a Webex call, but I think, you know, people will always have that need for a human touch. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. approach really of physically seeing people, building that trust, you know, and I think that's really kind of essential really, and it is something that I think we will start to see more of as we go into next year.

Thank you for that, Kat. So now Jonathan, Jonathan Bottomley, CMO of Ralph Lauren, one of the most lauded heritage brands, a few years back celebrated 50 years, wonderful, well-known lifestyle brand. So Jonathan, tell us about your word and what the Ralph Lauren brand stands for.

Well, I think, look, the reason I chose personalization, you know, and I'm sure it's, it's kind of something that would echo to most people. Firstly, look, we think about that in 2 ways. What we've seen through the pandemic is obviously a huge shift in terms of consumer behavior, particularly around apparel. The obvious stuff, you know, much more of the whole process, including transaction, done digitally. But really what we're seeing is the consumer has become much, much more demanding. And I think kind of rightly so in some ways. So that's an acceleration of that power shift back to towards the consumer. And so I think if you, you know, if you think about their experience on other platforms, you know, historically, like Netflix, like Spotify, like Twitch, actually, you know, nearly all of those are driven by a highly personalized experience. My Netflix is going to look different to yours. My Spotify is going to look different to yours. Whether people are conscious of that or not, I think suddenly as we're all catapulted into a digital reality, you start to expect and demand that a bit more proactively. And I think if you put that specifically down a retail channel, some of the things that we've had to do just to drive traffic, just to bring people either onto the site or into the store, have been really about personalized service, serving better. So if you think about the store, it's about virtual appointments. It's about coming in and having a one-to-one relationship with an associate. That's not just in a flagship store. That might be even in an outlet store, right? So you can be shopping at a very accessible price point now, And really demand a personalized service. Even things like curbside pickup, that is a much better experience, right, than having to go in and line up and all of those things. I think those are all here to stay, and they're a version of just understanding your consumer better. They're better services for you, the buyer, you, the— it's a better experience for the consumer all the way around. So I think they're there to stay. If you think about it the other way, though, the more tailored, the more personalized your messaging, the more effective it is, the more likely an email is to be opened. the more likely someone is to react positively to any kind of message that you put in front of them. If you're personalizing the experience of your digital commerce propositions, then people are likely to feel more at home. They're likely to see products, stories that are more relevant to them. So really, that's the driver now, I think, of many of our interactions with consumers, and it's especially true in retail.

Now, interestingly enough, Jonathan, you have The envy of many brands, you have first-party data on your consumers in terms of understanding their demands and your ability to market to them. What are you seeing there? Are you seeing consumers willing to buy premium, high-priced product online without that touch and feel?

What's—

any surprises there?

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, look, I think again, if you— the more you know about someone's buying habits and the more you can kind of bet if you like on what you think they might buy next, then the more able you are to take price in a way out of the equation. And by that, I don't mean the price is irrelevant. I just think that what historically has happened— I think you've seen this through the whole period around Cyber Week and Thanksgiving and Black Friday— discounting has been stripped out of the public domain. Now, part of that is due to inventory and challenges in that respect. But I think that's because actually discounting has become more personalized. Or value has become more personalized. So you're better able to understand price elasticity and what people are prepared to pay. And so, you know, you're better able to understand what someone is willing to pay for a certain item, whether that's a core item that always remains full price or something that you're trying to shift quickly. So that's a really important dynamic. I think the second thing, which is a broader trend, you know, luxury brands in certain categories are actually doing really well. At the moment. Certain luxury platforms like Farfetch are doing really well. Some of the others would have done well. I think they had some challenges logistically. So people with high disposable income have not been able to spend it on travel, on restaurants, on things like that. They are looking— they're not just saving it. And so I think what you see, and I think one of the things that we've benefited from, is an evaluation of what you want to spend your disposable income based around In the apparel space, purpose and functionality, durability, meaning, things that have real value. So actually buying a beautiful piece of jewelry, a fantastic shirt, beautiful cashmere sweater, homeware, I think people are evaluating the value in that and what it means to them and trying to buy into things that have tangible, real quality and durability and timelessness. And so I think we're seeing trends dip at the moment a little bit, and we're seeing those more iconic, more durable propositions really work. And I think outside of Ralph Lauren, you're seeing, you know, clothes and apparel that are highly functional boom, aren't you? I mean, I won't name the brands, but there are lines outside some of those stores because actually their functional proposition for the way that we're living today is really working. And I think the same is true of our homeware division and of any brand that's talking about the home at the moment. You know, high quality, high price, low discount is working if it's playing into the way that we live today.

And Jonathan, how much of that do you see continuing post-pandemic?

I think it will continue. I mean, it's interesting, that isn't it? It's kind of how are we all going to behave when the vaccine kicks in? I think everyone's going to go a bit nuts and get out there and want to have some fun. I think we're all going to go and have a fantastic holiday. And eating great restaurants. So I think that's going to be a thing. But I think, of course, that will endure. I also think there'll be a boom in creativity. I think people will want to show up and show off a bit. It'll be fun to get dressed up again. But I do think those underlying values are here to stay, because I think this has been a period of real introspection. We're not just stuck at home. We're actually thinking hard about the world. It's not just the health crisis that's happened this year. There's been a social crisis, a racial crisis, a climate crisis. So I think those really important fundamental truths and values that brands can bring— I'm talking about consumer-facing goods here— based on truth and wanting to prosecute a really— an agenda based on equality, understanding your role in preserving the planet, driving sustainability. I think those values, some of them are emotional, some of them are more functional to products, those will endure. And I do think we're going to spend more time at home generally. I'm sure I agree with Kat, people will want to get back together, but I think I hope that we will be able to balance our lives again as we are now, where you can spend more time on your terms at home and the value of home will increase. And then I think you'll spend more time in a kind of really intentional way outside the home doing other things. And products are going to have to— and propositions are going to have to flex around that.

Well, thank you for that, Jonathan. It's a perfect segue to— I know someone who cares a lot about equality and whose business model is predicated on that. Steven Wolfe Pereira, CEO founder of Encantos. Welcome again, Steven. One of the top 100 startups in 2020, family entertainment and education company, and a B Corp as well. So tell us, Steven, you said subscriptions, if I remember correctly, as your word. So why subscriptions and how does that play into Encantos?

Of course. So one, thanks for having me. And I love what, you know, what Jonathan just said about personalization and also what Doug said around, you know, community. But I feel like if you zoom out and really look at it from a macro lens, what we're really talking about is a fundamental shift in the economy. And we are moving from a product economy to a subscription economy. And this is an imperative for every brand every business because you're seeing it right before your eyes. I would say that all of these factors, whether it's personalization, community, they're all kind of derivatives of what we are seeing in terms of a subscription economy. And at the heart of subscription is a relationship with your customer. And, you know, if you're talking about, you know, shifts in buyer habits, the most important shifts are happening right before our eyes. You know, consumers have different sets of expectations now. They, they don't want to just own something. They want constant customization. They want to have this relationship where you understand what the customer wants and all of the things that we have seen, whether it's, you know, Twitch or Netflix or, you know, Uber or Spotify or, you know, you name it on the B2B side with things like Zendesk, you know, the ability to have this long-lasting relationship with a consumer is now paramount. So you cannot fake it. You need to have ongoing value, this value exchange with your customer is going to be the defining metric for a business. And if you do not provide consistent memorable experiences, if you're not fulfilling demand on a daily basis, if you're not available wherever the consumer wants to be and understanding how to personalize this service, you know, you're not going to be relevant. And you see how the market has rewarded any type of business that has a recurring relationship with the consumer. So fundamentally, the metrics, the way that you start where you have a product at the middle, at the center of a company versus having the consumer and not just saying that you have a consumer because it has become, if we're being honest, it's become like this throwaway line. Oh, I'm customer-centric. I'm customer-obsessed. You know, it's kind of bullshit. Are you customer-obsessed? You need to be a subscription business because if you are not a subscription business, then you are not customer-obsessed, right? There's no other way to prove true customer obsession than having a subscription business because you live or die by customer retention.

So, Steven, your product is certainly resonating in the market. Canticos, the Emmy nominations. Interesting thesis that you're sort of debunking the myth, perhaps if I may, that certain demographics would pay for a premium product, especially when it comes to reading. I certainly think that's It's a bet that you're placing that is interesting. What's the insight there from your vantage point that renders the bilingual market a viable opportunity in reading, as it were, and family education and entertainment?

Sure. Well, the whole premise of Encantos is that we are inspiring kids to learn 21st century skills. So that is the North Star of the company. And we're not just a B Corp, we actually took it a step further. We're a public benefit corporation, like a Patagonia, like an Etsy or a Kickstarter. So it really is written into the bylaws of the company. And so if you understand that this is the AI era, and what kids need to learn today are the 21st century learning, literacy, and life skills that are going to be so critical for these kids to not just survive, but to thrive in this century. And they're not being taught that in schools. So for us, we wanted to take this subscription approach and bring it to edtech. And the whole idea is it's all about a lifelong relationship with a customer. We just happen to be focused on kids and parents. So we're focused on family instead of direct-to-consumer. We call it direct-to-learner. And we are building brands that will grow with children over time, focused on kids 12 and under. So the first brand that we built is Cantikos. And because 85% of brain development happens from kids 0 to 5, that is actually the best time for a child to acquire another language. So we started with English and Spanish, but Cantikos is meant to be helping kids become kindergarten ready in 2 languages. So over time we will add more languages, but it is this unique model where we have a brand that is direct-to-consumer and we're bringing both digital and physical experiences for the kids to learn because you can't have your child in front of a screen all day. And, you know, kids learn through play. So that's something that was pioneered by Maria Montessori over a century ago. So really bringing both digital and physical together in a subscription model with the cultural authenticity, I think that's part of the reason why Gente Cos has really taken off.

What's the habit you're seeing now in COVID that you think will translate post-pandemic?

So we are absolutely focused on kids and families. And I think it's really been a wake-up call for everyone to realize What the hell are our kids learning in school? And so when you realize that this is not just going to be a law school year, it's going to be a law school decade. And it's not just a K economy, it's actually K education because people with means, they're actually taking personalization and bringing it to their kids' learning. They're actually renting teachers. They're doing learning pods. But for all those that don't have means, what happens to them? And so what you're going to see is an explosion in homeschooling, and you're going to look to trusted brands to help supplement and enrich your kids' learning at home. You're going to see this incredible search by parents to take the learning out of the classroom and also bring it into the living room because it's going to be this continual lifelong learning experience. And so I think this focus on edtech really needs to not just be you know, kind of digitizing a worksheet. It's really about learning through play and how are you really helping your kids learn these 21st century skills. That is something that's not going to go away.

Fascinating. It seems that we're at the beginning of some revolution in education. Thank you, Steven. So let's go back to Nashville, Tennessee, to Theresa May, leads marketing at American Woodmark. Fascinating company, makes 10 million cabinets per year. So tell us, Theresa, you said emotion as your word. What does the brand stand for and what are you seeing in terms of our emotional relationships with our homes?

Yeah, so I think it's, it's an amazing time right now as we think about cabinets that each one of us on this call or in this conversation, we have cabinets in our homes, but we take it for granted. It's been a part of the background. So a lot of the emotions in the past as you selected or you move into a home and is around maybe service or trust or heritage if you selected the cabinet. But now I think it's a piece of how do we really think about the cabinet helping enable celebration or, you know, the care of a loved one by storing items in it like medications and that. Or even satisfaction of accomplishing a task like a better place to do your laundry or how you're doing homework in your kitchen. And so I think it's an amazing time to really We really start to think about how are we creating those surroundings for all of the different types of tasks and interactions that we're having as families or even, you know, once COVID is over again, as friends and that come over and we redefine how we use our homes and how we live in our homes and the different environments now.

And what are you seeing from your customers? I know you have some direct relationships and also through retail.

Right.

So we sell directly to builders. So new construction, which is booming, and it was something that I don't think anyone knew what to expect when COVID first hit. There were a lot of expectations that building would stop, that remodeling would stop. And we've seen actually the opposite is that builders can't keep up with homes. And cabinets are an essential business because a home can't close or a family can't move in without the cabinets. Or as people look to remodel, that they were in their homes, especially after the first 4 to 6 weeks, they kind of look around like, wow, I think I'm going to be here for a while. It needs to be more functional, or we need to create different environments for where the family is at, or maybe where I do work, or where my kids do schoolwork. And so really, it's just been this acceleration that you see through some of the home center investor calls where they talk about just the booming sales around cabinets, which no one would have expected. I think that's where you start to— you're like, wow, this is a piece of what I interact with every day and it helps me accomplish what I need to, whether for my family or for my job.

From a brand-building perspective, have you shifted how you're storytelling at all?

Yeah. So storytelling for us has really become key. There's a significant shift and a tremendous acceleration of growth of selling cabinets through digital. And so it's really that place of understanding how someone starts on the buying journey with ideation that, you know, they could go to Pinterest or they could go to any of the different idea boards and say, I can use the visualizer that you guys provide for me, or they can call in and they can work with the designer. So there's that piece that we've touched on in this conversation of you can have a, a very personalized experience And it can be human or it can be fully digital. But I think that the biggest shift we've seen is the willingness to kind of create what you need through a digital environment and also complete your purchase without, you know, with what Jonathan talked about with Ralph Lauren is, you know, picking up a curb and you may not be able to touch and feel it. But we're seeing that even with cabinets. We have people designing whole kitchens or storage space for all those extra things that we're buying without really going into a store, touching and feeling it. They're creating it in a 3D environment and then going and picking up curbside or having it delivered to their home.

I can imagine a creator doing some cabinetry, live streaming on Twitch.

There you go.

I can imagine getting that personalized notification, a streamer I like creating We're seeing a cabinet on Twitch. Wonderful. Teresa, are you seeing any price sensitivity in terms of your community? I know you're, you know, in some respects a little removed from that vis-à-vis the builders, but what are you seeing in terms of consumers' willingness to pay?

Yeah, so I think that the key plays in, especially where we play with our cabinet line too, is around value. And so when we look at even through the new avenues we sell through, through online retailers or direct, is that it's, you know, design is accessible now. And so, I think, you know, it's maybe not necessarily a price sensitivity, but understanding the importance of value and how a choice can be made no matter what your income level is, whether, you know, you could maybe in the past have afforded or wanted a fully custom cabinet. But now you're like, well, I can do some of my customer and I can kind of pick and choose items. So I think there's a piece of design and style has become accessible across multiple price points. And consumers, because of digital and the way that they can be engaged through the ideation process and as they're kind of browsing or they're shopping around for the options, are learning that, you know, to get a really amazing space, I don't have to spend you know, a ton of money to be fully custom, but I can find options that are beautiful and really functional for my family.

Very interesting one to watch. So thank you for that, Teresa. Let's now go back to Harold Vekhorst, leading marketing at Lensing Fibers Limited. Many of you will know that flagship brand Tencel. So very interesting vantage point you have, Harold. You're today in Amsterdam by way of Hong Kong and truly an ingredient brand. You mentioned transparency as your word. Tell us about that and why it ties to the Lensing brand.

Yeah, thanks, Margaret. What I see coming out of the COVID crisis is that behavior that is more consumption with intention. So I see a kind of shift in sensibility having consumers looking more for value, the value that Jonathan was talking about, or about the personalization, or about sustainability. So it's a much more conscious way of buying. And we at Lensing, we are active in different segments, fashion being the predominant segment. And in fashion and the whole textile industry at large, It's actually an industry, it's one of the largest industries, bigger than automotive, bigger than consumer electronics, but it's one of the least transparent industries. And in order to drive the sustainability in the industry, which is desperately needed, we need to increase on transparency because that's the first precondition And I see, for example, brands like Everlane or Muji, they are on the forefront of losing the bluff and stripping the fluff through radical transparency. And I think that's a very interesting and authentic aspect of their positioning, which I think by doing so they have also established a kind of unique brand positioning, with global popularity. And I see this need of transparency is everywhere in the world, whether you are on the Asian side or you are in the Middle East or India or in Europe or US. So this transparency is why I choose the word.

And Harald, you reference transparency as in the supply chain.

Correct. Correct. Transparency in the whole supply chain. I mean, we have— and you were talking with Jonathan about having access to a lot of data from consumers, so it's more, let's say, downstream. We have much more of that information upstream. I mean, it's really knowing where our clothes are made from and where they really come from. And often many retailers and brands, they can only look one step back in the whole value chain until the apparel maker, the fabric maker, but they can't look further. And I think that's really important to have that transparency and to— because consumers want to know, want to know.

And very practically, yours is a wood-based cellulose fiber. That's the core.

Correct.

Yes.

Our fibers are all made from botanic origin, from sustainably managed forests. And it's made with a very low use of water and electricity, and it's renewable energy, also with, with a very low carbon emission.

Your company was established in 1938 in Austria, so been around a long time. What are you seeing recently in terms of interest in sustainability? It's been talked about a lot. And second part of the question, There's a lot of optimism around the potential for blockchain in terms of tracking supply chain. You touched on transparency. Is there something there, or is it still very futuristic?

No, I think it's, it's, it's there and it's now. Well, to start with sustainability, I think that the responsibility of sustainability resides not anymore with, with the governments or with, with big companies. I think it's with with everyone. And consumers realize that also more and more, that it's not just— you can't just look away. And sustainability will influence purchase through disposal. Now it's not the status of opting in, but it's the shame of opting out. You can't look away anymore. And I think everyone has a role to improve the environmental impact of what we're doing, especially in the textile industry. So going back to blockchain technology, yeah, we are launching this actually now at the moment and working with different brands across the world. So how it works is that our fibers are really upstream and they end up in apparel or in shoes or in home textiles downstream. We release fiber coins, and those coins travel in a blockchain technology until the final end product. So basically, as a consumer, you can scan the barcode and you can see where is the apparel coming from, where is the fabric coming from, where is the yarn being made, and where's the fiber coming from. So you have this full transparency. blockchain technology is nothing but a way, let's say, a means to reach sustainability and to give that transparency that is required.

Fascinating one to watch. Thank you for that, Harald. So let's go back around the room, as it were, to our commitment round. So here's my question, starting with Doug. Doug, if you were to summarize, what has COVID taught you about buyer habits and how are you applying those habits to your 2021 growth plan? And part B of the question is, what is your personal commitment to keeping pace with evolving buyer, in your case consumer, community member, streamer habits as a way to drive growth for the brand?

Well, as I mentioned before, I think one of the things that 2020 has taught us is that livestreaming has a very broad audience, a lot of people who haven't been exposed to it yet. So that'll certainly inform a lot of what we're doing in 2021, which is continuing to invest in some international growth. There's still a lot of growth for livestreaming in many emerging markets around the world. So that's a big area of focus for us going forward. We're also obviously continuing to invest in some of the new verticals, continuing to bring creators to the platform and encouraging them to bring their audiences along with them, which is really a powerful growth factor for Twitch and always has been. So those are real areas of focus for us. One of the things that I'm particularly focused on in on, and you sort of touched on this in the question, is that creators are very— their interests are very aligned with Twitch's. And we are really leaning into and really wanting to think about every way that we can support them. And in doing so, encouraging them to build what is in many cases their livelihood on the service and really supporting them in doing that. And in doing so, helping the service grow. So that Working closely with our creators to build programs for them, development programs, marketing assets, really everything that they need to grow their business is actually the best way for us to grow our business. So that's really a major focus for us going forward.

And your personal commitment to keeping pace with the habit changes?

Like, it comes back to that word that I started with. People need community. They need a place where they can show up for one another. And that's what we're building. So everything for us comes back to that very core idea, which is how do we help people connect and stay connected and stay supported through the good times and the bad times? And that's really what we've seen from Twitch this year.

So, Kat, B2B technology, different world, same question. What has been your most significant learning from COVID in terms of your buyer habits And how do you personally propose and commit to staying in front of those evolving needs?

Yeah, I think one of the main things I've learned is that, you know, we really kind of get in front of a limited number of people. So one of the main things is that people's time is really precious, and to reach one of those individuals is becoming increasingly harder than ever before. So, when we do get time in those individuals' diaries, it's really making sure that our message is on point, that, you know, we're focusing on them and what they need and not necessarily what the company wants to sell. It's all about them, and it's about using that insight to really help gain that advantage in that conversation. I'd say my personal commitment to kind of keeping pace with those buyers' habits is to really listen to them and and understand and focus on what those customer insights are telling us, and then being able to reflect that back through our marketing, you know, and being more creative with that and more innovative and making sure that, you know, we're engaging with them in a way that makes them feel understood and actually surprised by our level of engagement as well, because I think we do have limited opportunities and it's really important that we're on point with our message.

Thank you, Kat. So Jonathan, you touched on a lot regarding personalization earlier. If you step back, biggest learning in COVID in your sector?

Yeah, I mean, I think I come back to personalization in terms of the commitment, but I think the biggest learning is probably a macro one, a general one, which is, you know, you go back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I think that's definitely true. And if you think about habits, people under real pressure will revert kind of down towards the bottom— safety, sustenance, shelter. But I think, you know, we live in a very kind of aspirational capitalist world, and that needs are one thing, but kind of wants, desires, they're very resilient. People will, you know, seek to access things that feel special, that keep them entertained. As Doug said, that, you know, connect you to the things that you love— people, interests. And as Steven said, you know, we'll find ways to kind of help your community, help your family move forward. And they'll be very innovative themselves to try and access that. And I think what the digital revolution that we're all living through, this is a generational change that we're seeing, the habits of pivoting away from one way of accessing these kind of universal truths around what you need and want to another way of accessing them. And I think the learning for me is no one's going to hang around and wait for you. You've got to be way ahead of that as a business, otherwise people will move to access those things somewhere else. You have no God-given right to be the person, the group, the brand that supplies those things. And I think we've seen that the retail industry has been turned upside down. And it's not like anyone— people did not see it coming. It's just been an accelerant.

And the commitment to keeping pace or keeping ahead, as you would argue?

Yeah, I think, I think it's about, you know, Steven said it really nicely. I mean, customer obsession. I mean, that's in a way he said it more eloquently, but that's what personalization is about in a way. It's like understanding what people need, what people want, and how they want to access that. That's what personalization is about. And then serving it. We are in the service business, all of us. We have to serve what people want, what they need, and how they want to get it. And personalization is about understanding that as well as you possibly can and trying to pivot the business around to kind of serve it brilliantly.

Fantastic. We look forward to seeing the progress on that. So So Steven, at Encantos, many learnings. You're in the education space. Can you synthesize your greatest learning and your commitment to stay on top of one of the most challenging markets, which is young people or young learners?

Of course. This is called Generation Alpha, you know, kids born after 2010. And I feel that if there's one thing that we've realized in 2020, It is that representation truly matters. Over 50% of kids in America today are diverse. And when you realize the lack of representation in entertainment, in education, you know, it is mind-boggling that with almost 30% of kids in America being Latino, you still don't see any type of representation. So I feel that It has been an incredible learning where you now see communities of color, you know, people that have not been represented. And it's not just African American, it's not just Latinx, you know, or LGBTQ or women, but you are seeing voices rise up like we have never heard before. And it makes a lot of people uncomfortable. It makes a lot of employers uncomfortable. Keep politics out of the workplace. That is no longer acceptable. People want to show up with their authentic self. And so when you see parents bringing their kids to protest in a Black Lives Matter march, this is going to be a generation that truly wants representation and cultural authenticity. And so we are ensuring that you are going to see that diversity, equality, inclusion in every way that we bring story teaching to life. It is our commitment to really help kids become lifelong learners, but really having the representation come through is one of the key things that, you know, we could have never envisioned that it would take a pandemic on top of the epidemic of systemic racism to kind of make us really timely. But I feel like we are, you know, smack in the middle of the zeitgeist, and we're trying to deliver on that. And my own personal commitment coming out of 2020 is really living the values that, you know, learning is greater than education. How do you really commit to being a lifelong learner but focus on being a 21st century learner? And I feel that these are the things that we cannot take for granted. You look all around us, our education system has failed us. It was designed for the industrial era of mass markets and just, you know, for whatever reason, the stamp of the year that you were born, that's how you are grouped and that's how you learn. your learning category. I really believe that the personalization of taking it from e-commerce, taking it from entertainment, bringing it into education because we all learn differently, that is my personal commitment. Because you see it in the data. You see how kids learn maybe visually or, you know, maybe it's auditory. But there is an incredible diversity in the way kids learn. And we're more committed than ever to help kids learn that way.

Thank you for that, Steven. So on your end, Teresa, Biggest learning from COVID in terms of habits and how you will keep pace?

Yeah, so I think there were 3 key things as I think about the habit change during COVID related to our category is about the resiliency of people and families and how they define their spaces. The second piece is around the creation of connections and the importance of, you know, how we're connecting externally and the role that our homes play. as well as how we connect as a family within the home, no matter how much space we have or little— how much or little space we have. And then I think the third piece is really around creativity of, you know, just the amazing things that families and people are doing with their spaces that is not just functional anymore, but it's a true reflection of themselves. And how do we keep creating products in a way they can access and design with those products to meet the needs that they have, their aspirations. So I think that the commitment that I have as we go forward is really about kind of the observation and participation, listening and adapting, and remembering our products are really helping buyers create those spaces. And whether it's someone who's buying a new home through one of our new construction builders who no longer are going to open houses or model homes, but they're touring it virtually and buying it through a virtual tour, how do we help that home come to life through the cabinets or through that experience, all the way to helping someone create their own engagement as they think about what their next space is like, through maybe a digital experience or even accessing a human designer to help them bring to life, you know, what their vision is.

Thank you for that, Theresa. And finally, Harald.

I think what I've seen from the crisis is especially— it's very important to remain agile as a company and as a business and as a brand and adapt to the situation.

That's—

I think that's the main thing, whether it's about on the digital field. We saw a lot of changes there. Not all were new. Some have started before, but they have accelerated. And as a company, you need to be able to dial up adapt to that new occasion. As to my personal commitment, that's very much around sustainability. I think I mentioned the textile industry, but also in other industries, I think we really have an obligation and a responsibility, and I take that responsibility personal, to leave the planet behind in a better state, at least to the extent of what I can do or what I can do with the company and with our brands. And that's, I think, my personal commitment, which I want to contribute to.

Well, thank you, Harald. And in thanking all of our panel, here are my reflections. On the surface, this Future of Branding series has served as an oral history of how marketing leaders are responding to the COVID-19 crisis. In prior episodes, we've explored themes from purpose to sustainability, equality, growth, and many other CMO aspirations. More profoundly, however, this series has served as a forum for CMOs to announce their intentions to double down and commit to particular goals. In this, the penultimate episode of season 2, it is fitting that we come together to discuss habits. The 19th century American philosopher William James, regarded as the father of psychology, posited that we humans are essentially a bundle of habits. Whatever the degree to which we are unconsciously governed by our habits, it is clear that the contextual slate wiping caused by the pandemic has unbundled and recast habits in every region of the world and in every sphere of our lives as buyers, as employees, as citizens. I offer therefore that CMO success in fulfilling the commitments laid out in past roundtables will be dictated in large part by their ability to anticipate, shape, and respond to evolving buyer habits swiftly, iteratively, and at scale. What is true of the individual is also true of the organization. A prerequisite for all leaders is to identify and discard unwanted organizational habits that belong to the pre-pandemic era and operating model and foster new habits that we want to ripple down and become part of the organization's nervous system. New habits are fragile. As CMOs and all leaders on a quest for growth, this is the time to recommit to understanding and honing the habits that connect our customers, organization, employees, and community with our purpose and our commercial model. With that, my thanks to our multicultural CMO panel. We look forward to tracking your progress as you live out the commitments shared here today. Thank you to my production team led by Allison Shiver and Ashley Noonan, assisted by Mick Smith, blog editor Daniel Alonso, and designer Gizem Karatas. We return next Wednesday, December 9th, with 5 more CMOs. And you can listen now to all our previous roundtables by subscribing to How CMOs Commit on your favorite podcast platform. We would be truly honored if you would rate it, give a comment, and share with your colleagues. With that, With that, on behalf of everyone at Siegel+Gale, I'm Margaret Molloy, thanking you. Thank you for joining How CMOs Commit. You've heard the strategic insights and professional commitments of top brand builders from around the world. I hope you also enjoyed my reflections on how this conversation is relevant to all marketers. Subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app, and please rate, review, and share this podcast. Until next time, this is How CMOs Commit.