From Ego to Empathy with Justin Breen

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Hi, I'm Susan Drummond. Welcome to the Enlightened Executive where your personal evolution sparks your leadership evolution. Each episode we feature groundbreaking techniques and strategies to help you get the edge in personal and leadership effectiveness. And the episode is brought to you by Meritage Leadership. At Meritage, we strengthen leaders and empower teams to achieve high performance. Go to meritageleadership.com to learn more. Are you curious about your own development path to enlightened leadership? Take our free 5 minute quiz@susandrum.com to discover the superpower and roadblocks that may get in your way of effective leadership. Today we're focusing on visionaries and leading with the heart. And I'm grateful to introduce my most fascinating guest, Justin Breen. Justin is the co founder and CEO of Epic Fit Network, which was recently named one of the top five masterminds by Business Travel Traveler USA Magazine. His latest book is called Epic Journey and will feature an introduction by Deepak Chopra. Justin's previous book called Epic Life features a foreword from Peter Diamantes and made the Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestseller list. Justin's singular purpose in life is connecting visionaries to serve humanity. I love that and I'm so excited to welcome you, Justin. Thank you.

You're a great visionary. Honored and grateful to be here.

Well, you had quite a journey in your life and you've written about this in your book, which we're going to get into. But what's been most impactful for you along this journey to become a more conscious leader?

Oh, it's a great, great opening question. Within the last couple months, I've read a book by the late Dr. Wayne Dyer. His basically his memoir, I Can See clearly now. And before interviews like this or big presentations on stage, he would read, he'd read the same quote. So I'll read it here. If you knew what's that?

Before you read the quote, clearly the dog needs to be.

Oh, is there a dog? Yeah, no, you better leave that. No, no, no, you better leave that.

He rules this household.

That was like the CNN video where the, the baby came in and then the nanny and then the nanny comes flying through and then the door shut. That was. But definitely.

Okay, go ahead, go ahead.

So the quote was, that's pretty funny God trolling right there. But if you knew who walked beside you at all times on this path that you have chosen, you could never experience fear or doubt again. If you knew who walked beside you at all times on this path that you have chosen, you could never experience fear or doubt again. So I think that's, you know, basically what I've learned the most, that, you know, people are given a gift from a higher power. Most people don't find out what that is, or they never utilize it. I was given this gift, take no credit for it, and then I'm just using it to the utmost of my ability every single day.

And what is that gift?

Connecting visionaries to serve humanity. So spend my whole life talking to world's top visionaries or folks that will not make excuses. They want to become that, and by doing that, that singular purpose, whether it's through interviews or writing books or creating companies or now apparently writing songs. And very grateful. My partner for that venture is Matthew Rockefeller of the Rockefeller family. So, like, partnering with people like that and talking about things like that, that allows me to serve my purpose and help the most people. So it's singular, but it's always evolving. It's a singular purpose that's always evolving.

Now, I imagine there must have been times in your life, as there is with every visionary that you have, going through the dark night of the soul, right, and wondering, yeah, yeah, what is this really about for me? Can you tell me a little bit about where you were before and how you came through it?

Well, that's an interesting thing. So if you look at Dr. David Hawkins's scale of consciousness. Scale of consciousness, most folks, 96% of folks never get to 500. Which is inner love. Which is. Which is inner love. What is what you're talking about? Dark night of the soul. He would describe that as the great void, which is much higher than that. That's in the high 700s, 800s, almost no one gets to that. And I would say currently I'm experiencing that, or about to. About to. About to leave that. I've seen the signs. In fact, I would say this music venture is like coming out. But here's how I would describe that, if it's helpful. And I really want to think about that because that was a great question. So again, great void, Dark night of the soul, whatever it is. So 1. It is not depression. I cannot stress that enough. Most people would think dark night of the soul, they would equate that to depression. It is not that. Depression is where you're stuck in something and you don't think there's a way out of it, and it. It traps you. Dark night of the soul is. You realize, oh, my goodness, there's this incredible evolution that's about to come. Okay, so there's a. There's a very big difference with that. Okay, Most people, when they say dark night of the soul, they're actually talking about depression. That is not what. This is totally different. Okay, so how I would compare that in a scientific term or again, all I do is talk to top visionaries on planet or those who will do that. Many of them have experienced that or are experiencing that, or I can feel they're about to. Okay, so think of it as a caterpillar. Think of it as a caterpillar. So, you know, there's an egg and then it becomes a caterpillar. And then the caterpillar goes into what's called a chrysalis or a cocoon. And in this stage, the caterpillar literally dissolves. Literally, like, it literally melts, leaving only a certain amount of, like, last precious living cells available. So it's like, literally like you're dying. I would say it's like your body is dying while you're alive. But it's the only way you can become a butterfly. It's the only way. And if you open the chrysalis too soon or you tap on it or you disturb it, this ooze will just come out of it. You have to go through that. And I guess in a percentage way, only 1% of eggs actually become butterflies. Go from egg to caterpillar, to chrysalis, to actual butterfly. And then only some of those butterflies get to the. You know, if you look at monarch butterflies, only some of them will get to those trees in Mexico where they. They make more butterflies. But. But. So that's really what it is. One, it's not depression. Most people, when they say dark night of the soul, are actually talking about depression, that this is not depression. And then two, this is the highest level that I've seen of consciousness evolution. So to be experiencing that and feeling that and connecting with people on a deep global level that are. That are experiencing that is fascinating in real time to be experiencing that. So thank you for that question. Very good question.

What are they? Yes. And what are they experiencing? What is it like to be in that space?

Incredible creativity. Incredible, like, things that you're like, who is this person? I don't know who this person is. What? Hey, you know, again, it's like a caterpillar going into a butterfly. Number two, it's finding a higher power. Like, oh, there's no way I'm responsible for this. Like, this is not. There's no logic behind this. It doesn't make any sense. After a while, I found logic only goes so far. After that, the only logic is illogic and love. So my whole life is illogic and love. And then three, learning unconditional love not only for yourself, but usually, but not always one significant or a couple significant other people. I call them those people like soul mirrors or something like that, however you want to phrase that. And then where I'm experiencing that from a tangible thing and where I've seen other people experiencing that, they take that unconditional love, self love, compassion for themselves and then they turn that into a macro, maybe within a community, within a state, within, within, you know, country, within the world. And then me personally, I'm experiencing it with the help of people who can actually scale things in a tech way or AI that that will be scaling on a global level. You know. And then with this book with very grateful Dr. Deepak Chop is doing the, the intro for that. So that's coming out soon. So like I see it very clearly becoming a macro global thing. But first you have to, you have to have compassion and self love first. Like otherwise it's, you can't, you can't practice love for others if you don't have love for yourself. It's illogical. There's no, it's, it's, it's hypocrisy.

Absolutely. I mean honestly, in working with leaders, that's one of the biggest areas that I see where they actually don't love themselves. They don't, I know that shows up, it shows up in. They tie their worth to their work.

100. Yeah. Oh well, 1. 102. You know, essentially to simplify the most epic. What Epic Journey is really about is essentially the world is just a giant broken heart. It's hive consciousness based on folks that are, they have broken hearts. They had, they're like, they're looking for outward, outward or material gains. And they're just, they're just avoiding, they're not actually looking into themselves. I mean it's so they're, they're building all this stuff. By the way, the word business comes from the word by zigness, which means anxiety. The word sale means dull and dirty. That's what it, that's what those words actually mean. So scaling business is scaling anxiety. Selling is dull and dirt. So then you have an entire world essentially with material outer gains, which by the way, that's fine. You know, people have jobs because of that and things like that, but essentially they're not working on themselves first. So then if the leader of a company, because conscious leadership, if the leader herself or himself is not conscious about themselves, they're creating an organization that's not. That's not conscious. So I had a great talk today. I had a great talk today. I don't know what the term is. I don't really like human terms. But the. Let's just say he's a coach. Let's just say he's a coach, whatever that word is. And he teaches people how to be good leaders. And so he fully admitted to me, he said he's playing too small. He's playing too small. He's not investing in himself. And I go, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on a second. So you're telling me you're teaching people how to be conscious leaders and invest in themselves and you're not investing in yourself? And I was like, oh, I see.

That all the time.

Well, right, so that's. Most companies that's. And so I'm like, so, okay, so then if you're aware of that, which is very important actually. So then if you're aware of it there, and at the highest level of consciousness, there actually isn't a choice. It's a commandment from a higher power. I'm convinced of that. But let's just say it's not that. So if you're aware of that, there are two choices. One, you can go back into the matrix world and continue to build outer stuff.

Or.

Or. Which is something I've done. And then the folks I talk to, they just create their own world. They create their own world. And so by me talking to people and connecting people who have created their own worlds or will do whatever it takes to create their own world, that's how an actual new world is created. Because if a new world is created, I can create my own new world and then hopefully create a whole new background world. It's. It's just being a litmus test for the people you serve. It's as simp. Simple as that. Yeah, you.

You brought up the things that I mentioned to you. I laughed when I read your book. And it's. It's currently in. It's about to be published, I think this spring, but it was in manuscript form. And the, The Thai word of business being anxiety, like how's your business? Is actually how's your anxiety? And how do I know that that shows up? Because there's so much anxiety for, let's say, entrepreneurs in building the business. And then once you build the business and you have this, then I. What I see in these leaders is there's still anxiety about keeping. Because all that stuff is still external and when it's internal of your from yourself, it can be torn down at any time. Market forces can tore it, a disruption can tear it down. And so if you're talking so much of your self worth an image to external forces, you are building a house of cards now. No wonder you have anxiety, no wonder you're feeling these, these burnout or overwhelm.

Because you mean that's what the word means. So that's what it, it's not, it's, it's so awareness. And you know, the book has all these like, here's what you know. Average means damage to a ship. And by the way, most people call people like us weird. W E I R D that comes from the word W Y R D which means following your destiny. So hundreds of years ago, weird people would be burned at the stake or drowned. And now they're visionaries that people are like, well what are you talking about? Why are you the one out of a thousand or ten thousand people that sees this? And we just want to, you know, continue to live in the Matrix. So that's what weird actually, that's what weird actually means. And then becoming aware of what these words actually means. Very important because if you're aware of what it means, then you're aware of like what it's actually led to. And then what are you going to do about it? Most important?

Absolutely. So you've seen lots of leaders, given the fact that you're such an uber connector and you've seen leaders who are both leading from a conscious perspective and conscious capitalism, conscious leadership. And you've seen leaders who are not. Can you give some examples of what you've seen play out that I think would be really hit the point home of how a leader leads as an enlightened executive and how one leads as an uninvolved one.

Good. So one to simplify, to simplify that. And again, my world is talking to for the most part very, very consciously evolved leaders or talking to them. And they're unconsciously wanting to be like that. They're just not aware of it yet. So then they'll, they'll flip the switch. You're like, okay, so and then I guess from a, like a perspective of like just seeing, even though I don't watch the news, but like if you just look at anything that's happening in the regular world, that would be an example of a leader that's not so basically okay, so my world is the conscious leaders or those that want to be conscious and then the rest of the world which I essentially ignore because I'm not, it's not my world at that. So, okay, so in the world that I'm very grateful that, you know, created it and live in it and thrive in it and continue. The. Probably the best example spent a week earlier this year on Necker island with Sir Richard Branson. And he's an extreme example, but I think it's the best example. Spent a week with him, had multiple meals with him, he gave a great talk. And, and to simplify his great leadership is every day he creates a protective bubble around himself where it's just him and his free time, whatever, whatever that is in terms of, you know, just activities or meditation. Several hours. Several hours. And then two, he has numerous, I guess what I call human bridges between him and the actual companies that he has bridges. And he's very aware, he's very aware of his gifts that again, I asked him, I go, how are you still alive? Because he should have been killed many times. And he said he's always had a North Star protecting him or higher power. You want to describe that? And he's very aware that he has this ability, this gift to create things that really change the world. And then, and then he gets out of the way. He gets out of the way. And that's very high level awareness, consciousness to get out of the way and let someone else who's much better at it usually, but not always, but usually it's a human bridge who can speak between the visionary and you know, the employees or whatever that is. He's very aware to have those people in place because otherwise most visionaries would destroy everything. They would just destroy everything if they, if they made too many of those decisions.

And so just to call out the key point there is not being attached to your creation.

Oh.

Run with it. But if you haven't done the work on yourself, again, going back to this, your personal.

It's all ego. It's just pure ego.

Holding on to it because you're hoping it's going to give you that sense.

Of, well, it's ego. No, no, it's, it's, it's. Okay. So thanks. Tremendous simplification. So again, what I've learned, again, if you're not a litmus tester, people user, that's hypocrisy. So you have to, have to go. And most people won't go through with this. They'll just, they'll just run away from it. A true visionary will go right into it. And, and, and it's so fascinating to essentially watch your Ego dying. And by the way, ego is not bad. It keeps you alive. You know, without ego, you'd be dead or eaten by something back in the day. But. And like the last little bit. And it's very difficult. It's very difficult. Is detaching from outcome. Detaching from outcome. Very, very, very difficult. Whether that's a relationship with another person, whether it's the success of a company. And that's. I would say that's also to your earlier question, a huge part of Dark Night of the Soul or Great Void is totally detaching yourself from the outcome. Okay, so that's one, and then two. Here's the fascinating thing. When you actually do surrender that, or at least really, really, and I can't stress this enough, really, really, really consciously try to surrender, whether that's through meditation, prayer, journaling, whatever that practice is, it's incredible what actually happens when you really practice that surrendering and realize, oh, the whole world doesn't revolve around me. I'm actually just part of this greater ecosystem that was created by higher power, whatever you want to call it. It's such a freeing. It's such a freeing thing. And then what I've seen personally, and then again, people I talk to, there's this incredible ability to create, like, truly create. Really, truly create on a global level, not. Not a small level. No, no, no, no, no, no. This is a massive universal change. And that's what I see the truly great visionaries do. They have that ability to really, really let go, destroy their own ego and practice compassion for themselves, and then it spreads at a macro level.

Yeah. Fantastic. And so tell me, the book Epic Journey, what are the key messages that you're wanting to get out into the world with this creation of this book?

Well, that's a great question. And it's. It's an interesting question now because it talks about what we're talking about, so I can't announce specifics other than like. And I sent it to you. Thank you for reading it. What I sent you is the raw manuscript so I could answer that question from that perspective right now. It's currently going through the editing process. There's a giant team of editors and researchers there editing it to make it more friendly to the masses. And I have surrendered, detached myself from that outcome. So I have no idea what messages. Like, I don't know. I have no idea. I was reading this will answer it. I was reading the Untethered Soul by Michael Singer. Michael Singer. And. Yeah, right, right. But so in Hit, so So in his acknowledgment, I'll just read this because it's right here. He was thanking his editor, and he said, we work together to edit version after version until the flow of words brought a sense of peace to the heart, mind, and soul. So I know that editing. I mean, this is one of the best editing teams in the world. I can't announce specifics, but they're. I mean, these are the top people on the planet. I'm very grateful for that. So that's what they're doing. And if that helps more people, then so be it. So I don't know how they're editing it, but I do know that my soul will come through at a very high level. And in that context, it is what we've been talking about, that you have to be able to. You have to. Well, you don't have to, but really, to increase level of consciousness and awareness, you have to look into yourself first. You can't run away from yourself. And the journey that I went on during the process of writing it was the most excruciatingly painful. In a good way. I'm very grateful for it. I don't even look at the manuscript. It's too painful for me to look at. But that type of pain is what really changes the world, and in a good way. And then the editing team is taking that, and we'll take that and make it more relatable to. To all of mankind, which is good. I'm glad for that.

Because it is that level of pain that allows you have the sensitivity and compassion to bring that love forth to others. If you haven't really that in yourself, that's going to be hard for you to acknowledge it in others.

Impossible. Yeah.

Who have stuffed down sadness, and therefore they can't be with the sadness of others. And if you can't be with the sadness of others, you actually aren't going to be able to connect with others in a way that actually inspires real leadership.

Well, it's called empathy. And if you don't have empathy for yourself or compassion for yourself, you can't. I mean, you can't. You can't truly understand other people if you can't understand yourself. It's. It's. It doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, tell me then. One of the places we've connected on is the use of music. How music is the language of the soul and how powerful it is. And you're doing something pretty extraordinary now where you talked about this unleashing of creativity. Share a little bit about what you're doing with music and how you're doing it.

Sure. So just to timestamp this, we're recording. Because I think it's important, we're recording this on December 6th. I would 2024. So I don't know, maybe five, six weeks ago, I just started writing poems. I'd never written poems before. And.

And that was about the time we met too. About five.

That would make sense. So, yeah, I don't believe in randomness. It's just. Yeah. So started sending it to some folks and then posting them online. And then one of my friends, she's a very high level music producer and she's like, oh, these are great. Why don't we, why don't you write some songs and stuff that we can record in Nashville? I'm like, okay. So. So because I don't overthink anything. I just kind of go with the flow or whatever, follow my heart. So then I started writing songs and posting the lyrics online. And then what happened with that is I was at a party where it wasn't visionaries, like a neighborhood party. And this is funny, by the way. I'm saying this to be funny, not to be rude, but I got bored out of my mind. So I'm like, maybe there's a way to take these lyrics and you know, you know, make a song out of it. So I, I didn't know that stuff existed, so I just looked it up, lyrics into song, found Sunoai AI and started plugging it in. And the first one I did was called Warrior Queen. And I played it and essentially started like, it can make a song in five minutes and just started like, just pure crying of joy. Like, I couldn't believe that this. Because the lyrics came from a deep. It's called Satori, like a deep, deep consciousness soul evolution level S A T O R I. And it. The technology turned into this beautiful song. I'm like, oh my God. So that was a couple. That was Thanksgiving right before Thanksgiving, so a couple weeks ago. And then. So in the past week and a half, I think I've written 30 songs, maybe more. I can write lyrics for a song pretty quickly or a poem very quickly because it just comes out of me. And then the AI program turns it into music. Okay. So that's that. And then within the past two or three weeks, got introduced to. His name is Matt Rockefeller and he can, he can scale anything. I mean, he can. And he's a member of one of the top entrepreneurial families in America. Which is good. And we were just talking and he's like, oh, we can create some type of initiative out of this. And so that's what we're, that's what we're doing right now. And he's, he's. I don't like saying the word business because it means anxiety, but he's the one that can create this plan and all that stuff. And he just sent me the latest one today, and it's incredible. It's incredible.

And then it was very moving. I mean, what. How you can create a song that quickly, it's incredible. So I just want to make sure that listeners know one of the things that you can do is take your own, own inner work, what you know, or mantras that you want to remember and put that into this AI and create your own music.

Yes.

That app is sunoai AI. That's S U N O A I dot A I.

Yes. And if it's helpful, again, so like, I'm not a detail person. I just kind of float around. What, what? Matt and others, very. These are very. These are high level visionaries.

Okay.

They're, they're creating something where essentially I can go out into the world and discuss and, and, and easily help people do this on a massive global level. And then next year, without being too specific, like, I'm speaking in Middle East, London, Hamptons, Florida, at some, like, very nice events where I'll be talking about this stuff and then the book and Australia also. So that'll be. So like. And this all came out of. I don't want to say it came out of nowhere because this has been in my heart and soul probably for lifetimes, but it's certainly, you know, certainly this lifetime. It's been there the whole time. It just finally came out.

But, but again, technology to really scale.

What you're bringing 100. And if you look at that, like, look at Covid, like, I mean, again, I don't believe in randomness or whatever. Things are just meant to be. So that allowed like quick global connectivity. And then all things just aligned. And then again, most importantly, being aware of that, letting go of the, the outcome, detaching from outcome, and then just being like, oh, this is, this is a great opportunity. Let's not overthink this for 45 years. Let's actually do something about it. And most the world just overthinks. They overthink things. They don't make the investment in anything. And then they live with regret. I am not that I'm not that I'm Not I'm the opposite. The opposite of that. Just pure. Just go right into it.

Well, what is one thing since we're wrapping up here, one thing that you. Action item that you would suggest a leader take on the path towards becoming a more conscious leader.

Action. Okay, so to land the plane. So in Gallup G A L L U P cliftonstrengthfinders, my number one strength finder is activator. So action talk is meaningless to me. Talk is meaningless to me. Okay, so in terms of an action thing, and this is how I've been writing these lyrics or whatever that is, essentially I've turned off my brain through either meditation, deep awareness of breathing, listening to music, and then you can actually make your heart your brain. You like, actually listen to your heart. Okay, now for a true visionary, they will understand everything that I just said right there. Okay? Not a business owner. Not a. No, no, no, no. They'll be like, no, no. A visionary will understand that. A non visionary. Be aware of what I just said. That's all I'm going to say. Be aware of it. One. It's possible too. That's how true visionaries actually live their lives and create. Yes.

Well, thank you so much for sharing your insights, your heart today. Where can people learn more about you?

Oh, yeah, the main company is Epic Fit Network. I do nothing with the company because I would destroy it. My wife and her assistant and our members run it. But the site for that is theepicfit.com.

Theepicfit.Com well, thank you so much for being here today. It was definitely an enlightening conversation and not what I have often, but really wonderful.

I hear every day. Yeah, I hear refreshing and nourishing. So these are the only conversations I have that's my. I won't have anything that's not like this.

Well, if you like this episode, you're not going to want to miss my interview with Matt Hudson, a visionary entrepreneur dedicated to making a positive impact. Truth, love and leadership. Let's lead the way. Hope you enjoyed today's episode and I'd like to point you to the next important step. Hit the subscribe button and the bell to get notified when we release new content. I'll see you on the next episode of the enlightened Executive.