How Conscious Leaders Win the Game of Business [Sophie McLean]

Hi, I'm Susan Drummond. Welcome to the Enlightened Executive where your personal evolution sparks your leadership evolution. Each episode we feature groundbreaking techniques and strategies to help you get the edge in personal and leadership effectiveness. Today we're talking about how to win the game of being human, which will ultimately win the game of business. With me today, I am grateful to introduce Sophie McLean. Sophie was born in Algeria, educated in Morocco and France, and now works in the US and the uk. She's been a helicopter pilot, a teacher, a designer, a relief worker, a war refugee, a UN representative and a CEO. So she's been shot at, shipwrecked and widowed. As a wisdom teacher, Sophie has spent decades leading transformational seminars for over 80,000 people around the world, all engaged with the universal existential questions of who am I? And what is my life really about? Sophie's new book, the Elegance of Simplicity, is a thought provoking autobiography that communicates life altering concepts, proposing an effortless pathway to awareness. So welcome, Sophie.

Thank you, Susan. Thank you for having me on this fun podcast already.

Yes. So we said in this episode that it was about the game of being human, which ultimately will win the game of business. So I'd love to get your thoughts on what do you mean by the game of being human.

All right, well, you know, we all have these questions, right? What is this life about? Why are we here? Where do we come from? There is such an enormous mystery about everything, truly. You know, Socrates said, the only thing I know is that I know nothing. So we are constantly in the mystery of it all. And one of the empowering context, and I'm not saying it's a truth, but the empowering context to create for the gay for life is that it's a game. So I think most people will align with, considering that we weigh way, way more than our body and our, you know, biological envelope, right? There is something, you can call it spirit, you can call it soul, you can call it whatever you want, but there is something else. So that something else at one point comes into Earth, right into life. So what if, what if we came to earth to this human life to, for just a common purpose, to learn, to grow, to mature and to elevate to. Towards whatever you think we're elevating towards, right? And it's, again, it's not significant. It has absolutely. No, it's serious. I mean, I think many people will agree with me that it's a really difficult, serious game. One of my master told me, only very advanced souls come here. You know, it's not for the beginners, you need to be able to, to. To deal with it. But a game, A game, you know, like there is a Super bowl in the US Right? It's very serious. Right. Well, there is so many billions of dollars and people fight over it and gamble and all that, but, you know, it's not significant. I mean, it's a game. So if you can look at life that way, or it's serious, we like to win again. We want to produce results. Okay, we will be good if we lose. Right. But it's not fun to lose. Let's tell the truth. Let's go and win. So if you look at the whole of life as a game, the significance, the attachment, the identification disappears and you access this freedom of taking risk. Because funnily enough, and that's the paradox of life, you will be, you need to be safe enough to be able to take risk.

Absolutely. We were just talking about this, how the lack of psychological safety in the workplace that people are feeling, and they recently did a study that it was something like 60 to 70% of employees were feeling a lack of psychological safety. And what that means is they're less likely to take the risks and do the innovation that they need to really be cutting edge. Right. And to move forward and to deal with the disruption that's coming their way. You know, every industry, I don't care which one you are, is open for disruption, but yet if you don't have psychological safety, you're not going to be able to make those changes. So it sounds like this mindset shift or this perspective around that life is a game. And if you can think about it and your business is a game, that it allows a little bit more, it takes a little bit of the seriousness off and allows you to be more innovative in what you're doing.

Yeah. You can then take risk because you know, life happens in the risk of life. But if you spend your time protecting yourself and trying to get certainty and safety, you might not fail, but you definitely will not win. So there is this place, this context, where one experiences the opportunity to take risk as irresistible versus as just the biggest danger on earth. Right?

Right. Yes, yes. And when people have made this type of mindset shift, leaders who have made it, what's been possible for them.

To dance with the entire symphony of life. Right. So there is this human experience. We choose the meaning, we give it. Right. So the purpose, I think the purpose of us being on earth is the same for everybody. As I said, grow, mature, elevate. But then there is a Meaning we give to our lives. And if your meaning is business. And you're aware that it's a game, then you can fully played without any struggle because you are the source, the originator of the game. So when you are the source of something, fully responsible, fully in the game, if something doesn't work, you do something else. You see, there is no victimization whatsoever. So if you look at the successful leaders, the managers that are really producing extraordinary result with people and in the world, there is not one ounce of victimization of, I think you say, passing the buck. Yeah, right, right. They're the source of it. And that is what is possible. When you are fully the originator of your life, the source of your life, the power you access is extraordinary. You never ever look outside of yourself for justification or reasons.

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more particularly with one of the fundamental shifts is helping I think particularly mid level managers see that to be in again a victim mindset is to say that circumstances happen to me and ultimately I believe there's nothing I can do to affect the situation. And when, if you lead from that place, ultimately you can't produce the results that you actually really desire. Right. If you, if you contrast that to the responsible mindset which says that everything occurs as a direct or indirect result of my actions, non actions and interpretations that I believe there is always something I can do to affect the future, my life, whatever that is. And that's just a belief. Right. It doesn't either one can be valid. But what I've seen is leaders that can adopt that mindset, that responsible mindset, are the ones that rise above. So why would you not?

So your life is not about winning over the circumstances, it's not about controlling, it is about giving up what needs to give up so that you are in a dance with the entire symphony of life and you co create with the universe, you know, the universe, what I call the universe, it doesn't mean much, but it's the best word I find for you could also call it life. Right. But there is a partnership to be created with life. If you create life as your best friend, life will always, always give you what you need, not what you want. So if you get to the place where you can dance with life, be a yes to life, then the results you produce are extraordinary.

So tell me about your view of conscious leadership. And really that's what this show is about, highlighting conscious leaders, helping leaders walk the path of conscious leadership. What's your perspective on conscious leadership?

Well, one of the best definition of Leadership I ever came across was from, I think, Deepak Chopra. I can't remember. I'm a spiritual shopper, right. So I learn everything from everywhere. Can never quite. I can totally agree with you, but someone said that a leader is someone that follows, fulfills, and embodies the dreams and aspirations of others. So embodies the dream and aspiration of others. Right. A leader is not somebody that just does something for. No, it's such a responsibility. There is so much beauty and gratefulness in a conscious leader to embody the dreams and aspiration of others. So it's never based fear. It's always based on abundance. Right. So when you solve a problem or you propose solution, or you use your intellect, or it is always as one. And the conscious leader is very aware of the interrelatedness of the entire universe. Like, for example, Susan, you hearing me right now because of the system in your ear, your ear drum and all that.

Right.

Otherwise I could speak all I want. You would not hear anything. We know the table we're leaning on is hard because our skin is soft. Everything in the universe is interrelated. Right. So leadership can never be separate. It is a oneness with conscious leadership, which I think is rising more and more and very fast after the pandemic is taking into account the oneness that actually is what is reality.

Yes. I do think even this channel being born out of the pandemic was just sensing more and more leaders wanting to walk this path, being curious, asking the deeper questions about what does my real life really mean and what do I. What's the legacy I want to leave? Why? You know, exactly what we talked about.

Why are you here?

I think it would be great to hear from you some of the. Just a couple examples of leaders that you've worked with who, you know, obviously must have had a transformation in some point or an evolution. I like to use the word evolution because sometimes transformation suggests, like, one day you just change, you know, But a lot of times it's like, it's a gradual process. Can you share a bit about some examples for our listeners?

Yeah. And Susan, by the way, I can't resist you totally. Right, right. What stops people from elevating is that it needs practice. There is no quick fix. It's a constant practice. All right, so let me. One of my favorite, favorite, favorite part of my work is working with the United Nations. I don't know if you ever read the Charter of the United nations, but every single time I read it, I have shivers. And now I am aware that that organization could do with a transformation. Now that we talked about the work, and I work a lot with the country leaders, right, The UN country representatives. So they are people that go to all the countries in the world in charge of supporting the fight for empowering people in their poverty, social problems, racism, war, terrorism. So those people, Susan, they go to those countries, they have absolutely no authority. Zero. They're not elected. They sometimes go to dictatorship. They interact with the government, the leader or the king, but they have zero authority, right? And out of doing my work, and I have some testimonial on my website, they accessed power, right? So the way to understand it is Gandhi always refused to have a job in the Indian government. He never, ever seeked authority. But head of state came to Gandhi and bowed to him. That's power, right? And power comes through communication. The tool we have as human being to create anything is language. Everything gets created in language. So in my course, those leaders, those United nations leaders got to master the exquisite, magical side of language and the shadow side of language, because language is also limited. There is always. We live in duality, right? There is always with both sides. So that's something that is very dear to my heart because I experience making a difference in the world through them, right? Which is my favorite thing ever. And then another very beautiful story is this woman was trained as a dentist and, you know, just a very, very beautiful human being. And suddenly she. I mean, I'm going to cut a long story short, but she found herself at the head, taking over pharmaceutical factories in Africa, in the Middle East. And in, I think it's eight years, she multiplied the business by eight or ten times. She's now the number one maker of medicine for the whole of Africa and the Middle east, right? And what she says is that. And she's a tiny, beautiful, charming woman that never says one word louder than the other. Long hair. I mean, truly, you would put her anywhere except there. And she said to me that she learned to listen. So she said, I employ people that have an expertise. Why should I tell them what to do? They need to tell me what they're going to do. So she's worshipped in her company, literally, because everybody gets to say and express their best, best pranks because she listens. So she brings out the best in people. She listens, she goes away and she makes her choice. But in the meantime, employees experience someone listening to them as important, that what they have to say matters, that they are respected. And even if she doesn't go with the ideas, they are acknowledged. They are seen. Right. So that's one thing. And then she works a lot in Muslim country which if you think we have it difficult in the US you should just go to a Muslim country and be a woman at the head of an enormous company. And she said we talked a lot about the feminine and the masculine as an energy versus as a body and how you look. And she said that freed her up but totally, totally to be able to be nearly 100% male oriented world. And she says she's totally at ease and earned the respect of everybody.

Well, the power and the leadership that you just described I think is definitely something that a lot of leaders could take notice of. Recently I heard some statistics that it's really Gen Z who's suffered the most in the workplace during the pandemic from feeling disconnected. When you dig into why they feel disconnected, there's a decent percentage of them like 20% saying it's hard to get a word in in a meeting. I don't feel like my opinion counts.

Right.

And so there's. It doesn't mean that you have to take the advice of. But when people feel heard, they feel like they're contributing. And to really listen with curiosity is the hallmark, I think of a more conscious leader.

It is indeed because someone that really listens, Susan, is someone that is open. Right. It doesn't. Someone that knows they know nothing and that there are many, many options in the world and that person is irresistible because they are yes to life. They are yes to people. So you want to play with these people?

Yes. I've been talking to a lot of leaders about becoming talent magnets in the war for talent. Now that I can work anywhere with anyone, I'm not limited by geography. It's true leadership that's going to be the talent magnet. So if ever there was a time to work on your leadership, now is the time. And those that are losing people, it's because there's some opportunity to work on becoming a more conscious leader and lead in a more effective way. No longer is it good enough for you to just have whatever resident knowledge of your product, your pricing and to be really good at your functional job. If you are going to scale and you're going to lead other people, you better be working on how you're showing up as a leader. Otherwise you will not win the war for talent. Right?

Indeed. And you know, I see it in the smallest side of life, going shopping, being in the street. People are now a demand for being seen. There is no more tolerating just being a Number Yes. Right.

I'm very curious. When you were telling that story about the shift that this leader had in her mindset around masculine and feminine leadership, can you share a little bit more about your philosophy there or something that would describe what was the shift in consciousness that she had around that?

We all have feminine energy and masculine energy in us. You have to separate it from the human, right? Us, woman, we have a certain body. The men have another body. But that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. The feminine energy is very specific, right? Like the masculine energy, there is a conscious feminine energy which is coming from love and relatedness and creation and fluid. It's a little bit like the wine. And the masculine conscious is like the glass that holds the wine. So it's directive without being controlling, but it's protective. It deals maybe better with a physical world. And the two together obviously is the utmost right? You have the glass and you have the wine. So that is for the conscious. Now, the survival feminine and the survival masculine, the one that comes from the world of being victimized, are very different. The masculine ego is controlling and has given us the world we have today, right? It's a lot of violence, cruelty, manipulation, win over something. It's very mental. It's very result directed. And because there is so much mental craziness, sex needs to be there as a release, right? So that's the masculine ego and the feminine ego is whiny and victimized and trying to please the masculine and.

You.

Know, just not taking a stand at all. Just a lot of pain and hurt. So those two, the masculine and the feminine ego together have produced the world we have. And what this CEO was saying to me is that when she understood the difference between the feminine and the masculine inside of the victim, victimized world and the ego world and the conscious feminine with enormous power. It's like an ocean, right? And the conscious masculine that is so generous and worship the conscious feminine, then she could play. She knew exactly what she was dealing with when she interacted with her employees or with her clients or she could see where they were coming from. And she trained herself to master the conscious feminine and the conscious masculine. Because of course, the power comes when you can play with both. Then you're a very, very good player. I love it. I love it.

Well, what would you.

What.

What's one thing those that are listening could do today, tomorrow to continue to elevate their conscious leadership?

All right, so awareness, right? Awareness is the ultimate power. So awareness has a little bit of a strange, mysterious Vibe in the world. But it's so simple, you know, I don't know if you have children, Susan, but children. We teach them to cross the street, right? What do we teach them? We say, you need to stop, you need to stop. You need to look left, you need to look right, and then you make a choice. But until you do that, you do not cross the street. Okay? That's awareness. That's what, that is what will allow you to be the source of your life. So you need from time to time in the day, it's not like you're going to meditate for 16 hours, right? But as often as possible, you stop. Just stop. Just have a moment of stillness, take a breath and look. Really teach yourself to see what is happening versus being stuck in your mind. And that is, once you create awareness as a habit, you will access a lot of authentic power and guidance and intuition.

Yes, I think we, we tend to just race from one thing to the next without that pause. I even felt that yesterday where I was on the Zoom carousel and it was just one after the other after the other after the other with barely time, you know, to use the bathroom and get some food. And I just thought, I cannot have a day like that again because I'm not being as effective for the meetings. I'm showing up because I'm not building the awareness each each time. So, yeah, thank you for that. Well, where could people learn more about your work?

You know, the best place to go is my website. I have designed it so there is a lot of information and a lot of links so that you can find what you want. So it's Sophie macleanmyname.com. great. And for the executive and managers, I have designed a special one on one course because it is in my experience, group seminar are too uncomfortable for people that, you know, don't want to be that exposed or vulnerable. So I have a one on one course called the Master Course. It's 10 sessions and that's specifically designed for, you know, CEOs and entrepreneur.

Got it. All right, excellent. Well, thank you so much for joining us. And if you love this episode, you're not going to want to miss my episode with Aaron Snyder, who talks about how the study of being in ontology will affect your listening. Let's lead the way. Hope you enjoyed today's episode and I'd like to point you to the next important step. Hit the subscribe button and and the bell to get notified when we release new content. I'll see you on the next episode of the Enlightened executive.