How to Create Your New Leadership Playlist [The Leader’s Playlist]

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Hi, I'm Susan Drum, and welcome to this special edition seven episode podcast on the Leaders Playlist, where you can unleash the power of music and neuroscience to transform your leadership and your life. Each episode we feature exclusive interviews with leaders to give you some detailed background behind the book and what it could mean for you. Go to susandrum.com to learn more. And I'm excited to introduce Shep Hyken. Shep Hyken is a master at customer service and an experienced speaker and is the leading authority on creating loyal customers and employees in business. So thanks for joining me today, Shep.

Hey, Susan. It is an honor to be here and I've been with you on the show, of course, but I've also been with you through the entire journey as this book went from an idea to where it is right now, which is like, hey, let's get it. Everybody should get it. If you're in leadership and you're not getting this book, then turn off this interview. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Go to Amazon, buy the book. Am I allowed to say that or, you know, and I'm not even getting paid for this. So legitimate.

You've been such a dear friend and resource and mentor, given. You published how many books now?

I have eight books out.

Eight books. Okay. If there's ever a person for me to learn from, it's you. So I am thrilled. Thank you for being with me along the journey. It's been quite a journey to publish this book. Almost four years in the making. So with guidance like yours, though, I'm feeling really, really excited about it.

Thank you. Thank you. And I did say, you know, I have eight books published. However, I've only sold like 27 copies. Most of those were to my friends and a couple to my mom. No, I'm just kidding. Just kidding. Been very, very lucky. We do pretty well with the books. Well, I'd love to ask you some questions about the book, if that's okay. Yeah, that's why we're here, right?

Yes, exactly.

Let's dive into it. You get to see me with my glasses on because otherwise I can't read my notes in. And you know, by the way, I don't know if you realize this. You can see in my background. And by the way, this is my office. People think when they look at this background, you're looking at my home office. No, this is legitimate office. Those guitars in the background are there because similar to, I think, the neuroscience of music and how it plays into really the way you think, and the way you deliver and the way you act when everybody leaves or the office is empty and I'm feeling completely fried. I just pick up my guitar, play a little music for about 15, 20 minutes. My brain goes back to somewhere really cool, and then I'm able to get back into work and be focused again. So that's what you're looking at behind me. Well, let me ask the first question. You say in the book that our childhood wounds show up in leadership. Kind of scares me a little bit, what that means. I have a feeling. I know I was abused as a child, my father, whatever. No, hopefully not. But tell me what that means and explain what that is.

I like to say it was a hidden target of the book, which was what I saw over doing this work now on leadership development for 20 years, that leaders weren't reacting to what was happening without the history of what they had to overcome as children. Right. And we all sustain some type of wound, emotional wound, in some form. It's a part of our journey, and to some degree, it's what gives us our gifts as leaders. But it also comes with a liability, particularly as we try to scale an organization. And I just kept seeing people weren't reacting for the reasons that they say they were. They were reacting because of the perception or what they were focused on was colored by what they had to overcome or what they made their childhood mean. And it doesn't mean that you've had some, like, super traumatic childhood, but we've all dealt with some hurts. We've all dealt with struggles and challenges. And so to the extent that that continues to run you on autopil and you're not at choice in how you respond to a situation, that's what I was most curious about.

Yeah. You know, I look back at my childhood and as I was thinking about this, I thought, okay, there's times in sports where I won and I felt really good and elated that my team won some, whether it be a baseball, soccer game, whatever. And there are times that we got crushed. And I remember those days of defeat probably even more than I remember those great, you know, those great winning moments. Although eventually got on some teams that were doing pretty well. I also remember in school when I would just, you know, find myself really frazzled with a deadline and struggling to make that grade and not getting the grade that I'd hoped, or in some cases, being totally prepared and having this, this big win where I was prepared. I did the right research, turned into that paper or did that test and nailed it, but all of these, I believe, is what we're talking about. These and you say wounds, but I'd like to think that some of the greater experiences play a part into how we act and treat others as well. Is that, is that accurate?

Yeah, that's accurate. And the thing is they're all lessons that help us learn how to survive in the world. But the question is like, if you give the example of okay, I learned I need to really prepare well and be ready for something, that's great, right? That's what we want. What I see sometimes is a leader would grasp onto that and now over prepare and now over engineer. And it's as if like I'm never going to experience that again. I call it the monster you're running from. And so therefore I'm going to spend a ton of resources to make everything perfect so that we're so prepared and we never fail. And the toll it's taking on their employees.

Right, it's a lot of stress on the leader. But also I was going to think, man, you are putting your employees you're holding to a very, very high standard that may or may not be realistic.

How much are we over rotating to compensate what we learned as a child that actually doesn't work in the current environment we're in. But yet that was the neural pathway that was grooved long ago. It's like an eight lane highway to hell. Because if you just keep a wide highway, right, it's like, well, it worked for you at one point, but doesn't mean it works in every circumstance and it doesn't mean you so over rotate on it. But you can't see it as a leader that you're over rotating it.

Yeah, I think there needs to be a lot of flexibility in the way leaders think they. I think the best leaders are really good listeners too. They really listen to what, what impact their comments, their decisions, their strategies, tactics, whatever are making not only in the company, but on the employees they have. Let's switch gears. You talk about playlists and I'd love to talk to you. You know, I'm a customer service and experience expert, so anything you talk about, I'm thinking in my mind, how does this apply to creating a better experience not just for customers, but for employees as well because they're so tightly intertwined together. But you talk about this playlist, so let's talk about how that ties in to the leadership concepts that you're talking about, but also maybe customer service and experience.

Yes, yes. Well, let's put it in context of one of the biggest issues I hear leaders talking about today, which is talent retention. And I'd like to say, well, there's a little secret that your talent retention problem. Yes. Was influenced by some external events like Covid. And yet your talent retention problem is always a function of your leadership. So how you're leading, how you're engaging your staff is a direct correlation about whether or not you're going to be able to keep that staff. And in fact, if anything, I would say this tighter labor market, if your leadership isn't top notch, you are going to struggle. So that's what I see people being faced with. And as opposed to blaming external circumstances, it's like I need to upgrade how I'm leading others and how well I'm connecting with others.

Yeah. What's. What's happening on the inside of a company is felt on the outside by customers. So a direct impact for how employees are being treated, how they're being led, and to how the customer is feeling on the outside. So just because I'm fixated on this word playlist, tell me your definition of this playlist. What does it look like and what is it?

Yeah, so in the book, I use music both literally and figuratively. So let's first talk figuratively. Figuratively, meaning you've got this background music playing that drives what you pay attention to. And you know, it's a little bit like sometimes there's music playing, you don't even recognize it. And sometimes it's, you've got this annoying song stuck in your head, you do recognize it, but you just, you keep going there, right? And it's like, oh, I want to get rid of this song. So the background playlist is usually defined by some statement about how you see the world. So that's the sort of figuratively. Literally then we are using music to help you shift state from one state of being of I'm feeling trapped, I'm feeling not good enough, I am treated unfairly. Whatever those sort of background lists are, there's music that can help catch you going down that eight lane highway to hell. Like why? There's music that can help you get on a new neural pathway. And the playlist then that you select is creating something that's in the energetic or emotional state that you most want to be in. And so you know this from starting to think about how playing music will shift your state and our ability to use music to shift your state. It's like a brain hack, right? But it's even deeper than that. It Primes the neural landscape to be able to help make change stick. Because the more you practice that state of being, the easier it's going to be to access it versus going down the eight lane highway.

So are you suggesting that we put together a playlist of legitimate songs to play in the background? Maybe on the way into work we should listen. There was a song, Gosh, I'm drawing a blank on the artist. But she was young, she was in movies, and the song was called the Perfect Day. It is a great song and it is the kind of song that you would want to get in your car and listen to before you walked in the office.

Yeah. Yes, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So I'll give example for mine. My old wound was I'm treated unfairly. And I have a song that's sort of my anchor song that has like, oh, there she is again. That one that feels like she's treated unfairly. It's called I Hope. And it's a great song because it's all about like, I hope you find the love of your life. And then I hope she cheats or he cheats. Right. And it's sort of this little like.

Why would you want that vengeance feeling?

Right? And. But the new. The new playlist was really this series of songs I called my empowerment playlist, where I wanted to feel blessed and in love. That's a very different feeling than feeling treated unfairly. And so I selected songs that had me get into that emotional state. And the more I played them, the more I found it was easier for me to access that state and get off that old playlist so that my external life started to shift.

Wow. So that's very cool. I did something I wrote an article about. Oh, it had to be earlier this year or late last year. And it was like, what is your customer service experience playlist? And at the top of the list was Bonnie Raitt's song, let's Give Them Something to Talk About. Okay. That's what we want to do. We want to create an experience that the customers go out and talk about it. And this is what I use as my walk on music when I go to do a speech. And what I found is clients love this. And they started using it as music to describe the experience they wanted their customers, or I'm sorry, their employees to create for the customers. So they, they. And I said, let's create a whole playlist. So actually I have a Spotify playlist on customer service experience song.

That's right.

Perfect example of what you're talking about. All right, so you're using, and I'm looking at my notes here and you've kind of touched on this. You are using your own journey that helped create this method that you're talking about, you know, your, your wounds from the past and how you're using music and literally a playlist to shift the mindset of what you have. Let's go. Like some of the red flags that you see, because this is right out of the book, the red flags that you see that you should spot about yourself when you're looking to become a better leader.

I think it's when one, when you feel like you're bumping your head up against a ceiling, right. You just can't. I'm struggling and can't. And this keeps happening. Why is this happening to me? Well, it's probably part of a deeper pattern that got established long ago. So I like to say, where are you bumping your head up against the ceiling that feels like you can't break free of. And let's start there. That's one place. Another place is where you look at a recurring trigger. I'm so triggered by this. Oh, they did this again. They left me out of this meeting. How, you know, I feel like I'm not informed. Forms of communication, why is this happening? And if you start to see sort of recurring pattern of trigger, that's another indicator that something's here, that something's underfoot.

Can you use a positive experience to trigger the emotion because you're focusing on the wounds. And I know we mentioned this earlier that there's also positive things that happen that we can learn from. But is there a way for us to say, hey, I'm getting caught in this negative direction or negative street or lane, if you will, that one of the eight lanes to hell. Okay, what can we do to get on the opposite side of the highway going back the opposite direction?

That's the process. So in the book, I outlined a seven step process to help you get off that eight lane highway to hell. Create a new playlist and how you apply that and use that so that you can shift your state when you need to. And you build a habit of shifting that state and being more of that type of person. It's like, who do you want to be when you wake up in the morning? And really, really being clear about that, intentional. Being more intentional about the music we listen to because it affects us. Just as listening to advertising affects us in ways we don't realize, so does listening to music.

And if you take that music and you reverse it and listen to it backwards. There's always. I'm just kidding. Give me an example of a transformation. Just. We're tight on time, so. So let's go ahead and a quick example of, like a success story that you share in the book.

Yes. Well, I worked with a CEO Will call David, who was in an event planning and management company. And he was a creative genius. He was able to create these incredible events. And he thought he was a good leader when the company was smaller, about 10 employees, but as it got to about 80, you could start to see some of the cracks in his leadership. And part of it was his incredible design genius would take things to the very last minute and constantly making tweaks, and it was driving his staff crazy to the point that he was having issues retaining people because they'd spent all this energy, and then he'd change it and change it last minute, and everybody would be scrambling. And so we had to look and see what was really going on underneath that had him. But be so adamant that it needed to look this certain way. What we discovered, and I'll just sort of fast forward, is he had this underlying playlist of I am trapped. And so in order to not feel trapped, he needed to feel this sort of freedom that he could do whatever he want at any moment in time. And he didn't recognize how that was impacting the rest of his team in such a detrimental way. And he needed to balance both having a great event and also working with his team that was also stakeholders to be able to balance those two things about what they needed to be successful. Ultimately, we learned how to shift using music so that he could see that he's not trapped if he actually decides two weeks prior to the event, it's locked and loaded. And I think shifting that perception and understanding that there were these two stakeholders, there's stakeholders of your employees and stakeholders of your customers that you need to both. Both take into consideration when you're putting out your product. I think really helped open the perspective that he had. And. And in general, he stopped seeing it as being trapped, honestly. And so that was a big win.

That's. Boy, that's a huge transformation, if you will. Feeling trapped and not feeling trapped, because quite often a situation like that means this executive, call him David, was probably feeling this for years. And, gosh, what a freeing way of doing it. Well, we're just about out of time. I know there's some resources in the book. I'd like you just to share some of those resources with our viewers so that they can take advantage of it when they purchase the book.

Yes. So in the book there's a QR code at the end of each chapter that go through example playlists. So I go through nine of the most common playlists that I've seen. The old playlist transforming to the new. And when you get that QR code, it's going to give you both more detail about what songs did they choose to give you some inspiration about what songs you might choose if that's your playlist. And also just a quick summary of the seven step process with a little more detail so that you can use that at home to be able to shift your own playlist.

Yep. And obviously we can buy the book just about everywhere books are sold, especially Amazon.

Yes. Yes. And if you, you can go right now to the leaders playlist book.com if you go there right now, you can pre order the book and the book is going to be released on Amazon on October 18th.

Great day. I believe that is a Tuesday.

That's right.

Ah good. It'll be a great Tuesday. Well, I appreciate the opportunity to ask you these questions. So thanks. Thanks for taking the time.

Shep, I am thrilled. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me about this and for just being an all over amazing human being that's just been such a guide along the way. So thank you.

Oh, my pleasure. Thank you.

Curious about the concepts we talked about in this episode? Go to the leaders playlist book.com to learn more and purchase the book. And stay tuned for the next episode of the Leaders Playlist.