Unmuting Yourself: Rachel Druckenmiller’s Challenge to Speak Up

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Hi, I'm Susan Drum and welcome to the Enlightened Executive where your personal evolution sparks your leadership revolution. Each episode we spotlight groundbreaking techniques and strategies to help you get the edge in personal and leadership effectiveness. This episode is brought to you by Meritage Leadership. At Meritage, we strengthen leaders and empower teams to achieve high performance. Go to meritageleadership.com to learn more. Are you curious about your own development path to enlightened leadership? Take our free 5 minute quiz@susandrum.com to discover your superpower and the roadblocks that could get in the way of effective leadership. Today we're focusing on helping leaders elevate confidence, clarity and courage. And I'm delighted to introduce my guest, Rachel Druckenmiller. Rachel is a keynote speaker, facilitator and leadership trainer at Unmuted, where she helps organizations elevate to their highest potential by discovering their purpose, passion and potential. Rachel is a TEDx speaker and a singer songwriter who uses her voice and message driven music to empower and energize people and organizations. You can see why the music connection. I'm having her on the show. She has worked with companies such as Sherman Williams Citizens bank and has been recognized as best stage speaker by Smart Meetings and as Forbes next 1000. So welcome Rachel.

Thank you so much, Susan. I'm excited for this conversation and all the synergy we already have before it even gets started.

Absolutely.

Absolutely. Well, I had to have you on.

The show given we're connected through a speaker community called Impact11 and given that you incorporate music into your speaking as well as I do. I'm like, oh, she'd be a perfect guest on here. But let's talk about what does it mean your phrase is unmuted. Tell me more about what you mean by that.

Yeah, so for me, to be unmuted is to be courageously expressed and boldly alive. It is to show up and to express what we think and need and want and feel. And what I found is that so many people don't do that. So I did a TedX talk and it was about how self silencing is sabotaging you. So all of us have these ways. We silence ourselves at work, at home, we silence our bodies. We silence ourselves at work. And I noticed that that for me personally was holding me back and that I noticed it held a lot of other people back too and kept people feeling stuck and small and burned out. And I felt like I had to do something about it. So when I launched my company five years ago, I Said, this is what I stand for and I'm going to put a stake in the ground and this is what I'm about. And as somebody who silenced myself a lot of my life in different ways, it felt like a declaration that I wanted to make that this is what we are doing. We are showing up in a way that is unapologetically unmuted.

Awesome. So tell me a little bit more, because silencing yourself, you know, I certainly know some leaders that have gone, let's say, the opposite direction, where they're sort of like, that's an inside voice, not an outside voice.

You see what I'm saying?

As we would tell kids. And it's sort of like, yeah, probably not the best communication that you could be giving. And so help. Help me understand the difference between outburst. Right. Or inappropriate internal dialogue being voiced externally and silencing yourself. And I understand there could be two opposite extremes, but I think it's important to make this distinction.

So for me, I view the unmuting as first and foremost an internal process. So I have asked thousands of people, like in the keynotes that I've done, I've asked thousands of people to share, what are the reasons why they silence themselves. Why do you hold yourself back? What's a. What's a way that you're doing that? Tell me what's a way that you're doing that? And it runs the gamut. And people say things like, you know, I'm not speaking up and asking for help at work because I don't want my colleagues to think I'm incompetent or that I'm a failure, even though it means I'm neglecting my husband and my kids. Or somebody might say something like, I'm not speaking up and asking for the promotion that I really want because I don't think I really deserve it. Or people say things like, I haven't finished my bachelor's degree or my master's degree or the certification, one thing or another, because I don't think I'm capable of doing what it takes. And so for me, when I think about what it is to unmute ourselves, it's not just like, speak your truth and say your piece. That's what I think. Some people interpret it to me exactly. If you being that unmuted mutes the people around you, that is not a healthy form of unmuting. So I think it takes a tremendous level of self awareness. This is not a quick fix. This isn't like a, hey, go do these three steps tomorrow and you will be unmuted. Ta da.

I'm going to let my boss have it. I'm going to unmute myself.

That is one interpretation. And I think again, the biggest, the biggest differentiator is to say it's really ask yourself. And this requires a certain level of self awareness. If me unmuting myself in this way is shutting over everyone else around me down, is that really effective? That's a rhetorical question. Because it's not. So when I think first and foremost of the unmuting process, it's a couple of different steps. One is really getting clear, what I call activating your assets. So getting clear on what your strengths are. Because a lot of people, and this requires asking other people taking assessments. I'm a big fan of different assessments as well, but I think it's more helpful to ask other people, you know, hey, tell me about a time when you've seen me at my best or what shows up when I'm performing at my best, you know, what strengths do you see in me? What emerges? And so these are the types of questions I have. People go back and ask their colleagues to get some perspective and even to find out, hey, when I'm not at my best, this is a brave second step, right? When I'm not at my best, what do you see show up? Can you tell me one thing? Don't let them flood you. What's something that when I'm being my least effective self, when I'm really not having the impact, you know, that I want to have, what is the behavior I'm showing up with, what is a trait or characteristic that you see in me that maybe I am blind to, that I have a blind spot around? And so I think that is a way that people can help themselves not fall into that trap of unmuting themselves in an unhealthy way. So it's really that first step of getting clear on, on who you are and getting clear on what it is that you really bring to the table and the areas where you could, you could improve. It's like a. What Adam Grant calls confident humility. Balances too.

Yeah. Excellent. So tell me a little bit, how did you come to make this your mission?

Yeah, well, for me growing up, I. It's funny because being on stage now as a performer, as a singer, as a speaker, the nine year old version of Rachel would have been like, you're doing what with your life? Because I was so shy. I was shy, I was timid, I was quiet, I was guarded, I avoided anything performative. Except for doing well in school, that was the only performative. I played some sports, but I wasn't a standout athlete in anything. And I silenced myself. I had a lot of health issues growing up as a kid, like ear, nose and throat stuff and half a dozen surgeries by the time I was 16. And I felt excluded at school. I didn't tell anybody. My parents were going through a rough patch in their marriage and separated and there was yelling and fighting and I didn't communicate that to anyone. You know, I'd go under for surgery, anesthesia, which is terrifying when you're five in a room with bright lights and strangers around you, no parents there. But I didn't communicate that. So I spent a lot of my life and I loved singing when I was little, but the second I thought anyone could hear me sing, I would stop singing. So I had all these different ways that growing up, even, even wardrobe wise, I wore a black and white uniform for eight years in school. You know, I just, I didn't. I was such a muted, smaller, more apologetic, scared version of myself. And when I left my job in corporate, I worked in corporate for 13 years. I was the director of well being and employee engagement at a benef consulting firm. And I started speaking in that. In that role, you know, five years in or so, and I was like, I really like the speaking thing. And I started leaning into it. And when I left my job after burning out and getting mono in 2017 from pushing myself too hard for too long, I thought about what I wanted to say about, you know, this, this big move I was making of leaving a sure thing for an unsure thing. And for me, the most honest expression of what I felt I was called to do next with my life is to invite people to do what I felt I was doing myself. Like I was stepping out and taking a brave step to unmute myself, to hang my shingle, to start speaking as a full time job, to integrate singing into my keynotes, to start doing this stuff that me 10, 15 years earlier would have been like, we are not, we are for sure not doing that. So it felt like I needed to call that something that other people could connect to and then to be a catalyst who helped other people do that in their own lives.

Great. So part of it was your own journey and then just sharing on stage where you were holding yourself back and inviting others to step in and not hold themselves back. So I imagine you have some type of framework that you have behind your message. Can you share a little bit with us what that Is. Or how leaders can take this concept into practice.

Sure. Yeah. I was just at a HR conference last week with about 800 leaders, and these are the people that are going back to their companies and helping the managers and the other people on the leadership team know how to do this kind of stuff. And so the three parts of my process, one we've touched on, was activate your assets. So really helping people and asking your own people, you know, what is it? What is a strength or talent or capability that you have that maybe we don't know about? Because sometimes people are hired to do A, but they have skills in B, C, and D, but because we never ask them about B, C, and D, we wouldn't even know that they can do those things, that they could contribute in those ways. So part of it is even going to your own people and saying, hey, is there. Is there anything that you are passionate about or know how to do or a skill or a talent you have that we just haven't asked you about that maybe you could integrate into your role that you would like to do more of? And so few people are ever being asked a question like that at work.

Yeah.

So that's one part of it. And that practice of asking people, hey, tell me something that you see when I'm at my best. So activating your assets. And then for me, the second part is about advocating for yourself. So I find that a lot of people at work, particularly the higher up you get in the ranks, there's this sense that I'm the one that's supposed to help everybody else, but I shouldn't need help because of my title, because of my tenure, you know, I. I should be able to handle all of this. And if I can.

And that's my role as a leader. Like, to take shell to. To shoulder it. Right. Okay.

It's my responsibility. And so what we can have a tendency to do, I find a lot of times, is people can have a greater sense of loyalty to their organization than they can to themselves. And it's like, I will sacrifice myself at the altar of my job, even if it means my health declines, my marriage declines, my friendships decline, I have no time or energy to exercise or do things that bring me joy. And I say this not from a place of judgment, from a place of, I've been there. Because that is what happened to me in 2017. I burned out and got Epstein Barr virus, which is an acute form of mono, while I was the director of well, being at my company.

Wow. Yeah.

And I was like, I have A bachelor's degree in psychology. I have a master's degree in health science. I'm a health coach. I'm a blogger. Two years earlier, I'd been recognized as the number one health promotion professional in the entire United States. I was like, if I am completely botching this and I have all of those credentials, I mean, it's no wonder that just people that don't have any of that are also struggling.

Yes. Yeah.

And I started speaking up about it, which is, I think, something that as leaders, we have a responsibility to speak to the things that we know are common challenges, but that we don't talk about because we're afraid of what people will think of us if we do. And I think there's different levels of unmuting. Right. So there's certain people, you have a small circle that you really share all your deepest stuff with. Right. Your therapist might be included in that. A coach might be included in that. Where you're not broadcasting everything to everyone. That's a, That's a healthy boundary setting as part of this. But as a leader, to say, you know, hey, I struggled with burnout, or sometimes when, if you're addressing the organization, right, or talking to your group of managers, sometimes it's. You could say, sometimes it's really hard for me to not log on to my email at 10 o'clock on a Friday to see what's happening, because the fact of the matter is I'm just being distracted from my own life because I've made work the most important thing. And so I struggle with that too. Like, even something as that scares a lot of people to admit something like that.

Yeah, for sure.

But they're all doing it too. And if you acknowledge it and say, this is hard, how can we come together? Like, how can you make yourself part of the group? You know, as opposed. As opposed to, like, I am separate and above, and therefore I cannot have the same needs as anybody else. What if we start to shift that and say, let me. Hey, let me start acknowledging, like, I started to open up to my company, my boss was the cfo, and I said, hey, I need to change my schedule around. I need a support person at least part time. I cannot keep doing this at this pace. I'm really sick and I can't do the job you've hired me to do.

And what was the response to whatever you need?

Yeah, whatever you need. I've been there for a decade and prior intern. So I'd been there in some capacity for like 14, 15 years. They were like Rachel, whatever you need. And we're so afraid. Like, can I share a story with you about an example? Resonate. So I was doing a training for a global consulting firm. It was about 200. There are project managers. These are people, rising leadership positions. And we're talking about beating burnout and becoming your best self. And so when we were together for the session, one of the things that I invited them to do is to think about, like, you know, who gets. And I mentioned this in my TEDx as well, like, who gets your best and who gets the rest. And there was a woman who heard me say that in the room. And she messaged me on LinkedIn two days later. And she said, I've already made a huge change as a result of the session. It had been two days. I said, well, what did you do? So she could not shake that question. And her did not like her answer to it. She was a single mom, had a partner, and she went home and talked to her partner about it. And she was traveling for work and going back and forth between her headquarters and an office several states away. So she was on a plane a lot. She wasn't able to be home with her son and her family the way she wanted to. But she said that the session prompted her to go to her boss. This is somebody who was going to leave. She was on her way out the door. She was burned out. She was done. Yeah. And this is what happens so often at companies. We don't realize that, you know, we're afraid to say anything. Cause we're afraid we're going to be let go.

And we get to the point where we're ready to eject. And the manager never knew.

The manager never knew. They're like, if you told me, I could have done something. So she goes to her manager and asks for a change in her role so she could be taken off of the travel part and just be based where she lived. Which was basically asking, can I change half my job? Which I think most people, if they're being honest, would be kind of terrified to do.

Yeah, yeah, right, right.

But her boss said yes. And that woman stayed at that company for four more years. She stayed there for four more years. She probably would have left. And the biggest thing that stood out to me was the last line of the note she wrote me. She said, rachel, after making this decision, after asking for what she wanted, advocating for herself, she said, rachel, I slept better last night than I have in a year. Hmm. Yeah.

Amazing weight that she was carrying. And then what she needed to make the shift. Yeah, I think it's also really suppressing that those internal urges and, and desires that kind of maybe show up in the middle of the night and we think we can't answer the call of what's truly there and yet we'll all be better off. I mean, would it be worse for them to lose her entirely? It sounds like they valued her, so they were willing to, to do what it takes, but she just wasn't valuing herself enough to make that call.

That's a hundred percent. I, I feel like most of the time if, if you're truly like a strong contributor and you're a, you know, you're a high performing employee, most organizations know how costly it is to have to replace you. And if people were just willing to have that conversation and advocate for themselves a bit more. Because look, at the end of the day, I talked to somebody recently at this HR conference I was at and somebody said there was this person that worked with our company, super High performer. They, they passed away due to like the stress that they were carrying. They, they passed away. They were like the posting for that job was on online in 48 hours. And I mean that's the reality. Like that is the truth of this. We are not, we are not promised tomorrow and we live in this state. Like I'm just going to put up with this a little bit longer. We tell ourselves these lies. This is going to change when, when this. And then people drag it out and they are, they are stuck in a spot where they are silencing themselves, where they're dealing with health issues, where their mental health is on the fritz, where their relationships have been compromised, where they're not even happy at work and they stick around waiting for the, the that when to happen, that magical if then to happen and it, and it doesn't happen. And you know, sometimes the best move is to speak up and ask for a change if you really want to stay there and ask for that change. But sometimes that person long term isn't going to be a good fit there. And it's better to know that sooner rather than later.

Yeah. Because they're not giving their, their best and their full heart to it either. I mean, you know, as recently as I think 2023, there was a study that found 62% of workers feel burnt out. And, and, and so I also think it's the feeling of being isolated. This is only happening to me or I need to not say anything because everybody else seems fine. And clearly if I speak up then there's going to be something I'm going to be branded, you know, as, you know, not the dedicated worker that I need to show up as in this culture. And I think that that is the real fear. And yet so many people are struggling in this arena.

So many people. And because no one talks about it, which is why I feel like it's my job as a catalyst through my work to get people to talk about it, even if it's sort of an anonymous way initially to get people to just kind of like, come to confession. Let's admit what we're all struggling with that we're not telling each other. Okay, boom. Let's get it out there. Oh, now that we've gotten it out there and we recognize that you are, in fact, not the only one dealing with this, now we can talk about solutions, but the first part we have to do is we have to recognize, like, the pain has to be great enough for someone to make a change. So when I'm asking people to think about what's the way you're silencing yourself or doubting yourself or holding yourself back, I'm basically asking them to identify the pain point. Because until you identify what this is costing you to do this.

Yes.

You're not going to change.

Yeah, for sure. You'll just keep going. So the three things you said, there's three things that, that you talk about. Go over those one more time. It's. It's understand your assets or tell me how you.

You describe. So activate your assets.

Activate.

Be your own advocate, which is about speaking up and standing up for what it is that you need at work, for the support that you need for the help. I mean, in Brene Brown's book Dare to Lead, she mentions, she said, we surveyed a thousand leaders and we asked them, what's the behavior of your team members that most leads you to trust them? And shockingly, the most common behavior that leaders pointed to was when my team members ask for help because it demonstrates a certain degree of, okay, this person is trustworthy. They know their own capability, they're willing to delegate, and frankly, like you as a leader, also have permission to ask for help.

Yes. Right.

If you're saying that that's what helps you trust your people, that's also what helps your people trust you and what helps other leaders trust you.

Yeah.

So, you know, so advocating for yourself is another part of it. And then the third part of it is what I call accepting the invitation. So I find that a lot of people have this tendency to dismiss, to diminish to reject invitations that they get to, for instance, step into a particular role, to join a kind of committee, to be asked to speak at an event on behalf of their organization, to be a representative or ambassador of some kind of. We make up all these stories in our heads of that I'm not qualified, but I'm not experienced enough, but I'm too old, but I'm too young, but I'm not a good speaker, but I'm not whatever. And we have this laundry list of all the reasons why we shouldn't do the thing that somebody else is asking us to do and we pull ourselves out of the race. And people do this at all levels within an organization. And it's a reflection of insecurity. And there's nothing wrong with like self doubt is a natural part of, you know, I think the only people that have no self doubt are like narcissists and sociopaths, which I don't think any of us are aspiring to be. So when I talk about accepting the invitation, I'll give you an example. I was speaking at a conference and there was a woman who. There were two different people, two stories. One woman was in the audience and she was, she was in HR at her company and she had been asked by a vendor partner that they worked with to speak about her company's initiative on, you know, because they had worked together, partnered together and to share her story and to share as a case study at their conference, which is a large conference that was coming up several months later. And she said, like, I'm not a speaker, I don't. She was more than qualified, but she was discounting herself because she decided she didn't have certain qualities that whoever did that needed to have. She heard me speak at this conference and I talked about the importance of accepting the invitation. You know, the fact that someone asks you is an indication that somebody thinks you're qualified. So she, after that conference reached out to me within, within three days of that conference, she said, I wrote back to them and I said, I'm in. And they were so excited. And so nine months later she spoke at that conference and now she gets to represent her company. Like, so when we don't, when we, when we mute ourselves, it's not just limiting us. Like now her organization gets a spotlight for something that they're doing that's different, that's impactful. They get to be propped up because one person, the whole organization gets to be propped up because one person said yes to an opportunity.

And so how do you leave it in your keynotes, what's the. What's the call to action that you ask leaders to take?

So I'm a big proponent of curiosity, and I'm a big advocate of helping people to look within themselves and to cast a vision for the future. So a question I ask them at the end of my keynotes is I want them to imagine it's a year from now from whatever date we're at. Imagine it's a year from now, and you are celebrating one way, big or small, that you have unmuted yourself, that you have leaned into your strengths, that you have let yourself be seen and shine, that you've let yourself show up more fully, that you've advocated for yourself, that you've spoken up, you've said yes to an opportunity, that you have propelled yourself forward in some way. Like, what do you want to be celebrating a year from now? So by helping people cast a vision into the future, to say, all right, this is already. We're speaking about this as though it has already happened. And so then your brain starts to work backwards. And if you say, you know, a year from now, I'm going to be celebrating the fact that my book, my first book is about to be published and that I've have been a guest or I'm lined up to be a guest in the Kelly Clarkson show because, like, that's a commitment that I want to make to myself. It's something I wanted to do for a long time. Both of those things. The book is in a good spot very far along. The Kelly Clarkson thing I'm still working on. But just by making that declaration and telling one other person, this is what I'm committing to and writing it down for yourself. And I've had people do that. I had a spoke at a conference. Woman was there. She said, I heard you speak. And I decided that following year to apply to do a breakout at that same conference because of what you said. And she messaged me and she said, I got selected. Like, that is awesome. You know, so it's so much of what I'm doing is I'm just. I'm just shining a mirror. I'm holding up a mirror to people and saying, I want you to see. There's a card my mom gave me that says, I wish that you could see what I see when I look at you. I wish that you could see what I see when I look at you. Like, I see someone who is capable. I see someone who is worthy. I see someone who is competent. I see someone who is more than prepared and more than qualified and more than enough. Now I just want you to see it, too, so you'll do the thing that only you can do. That's what I help people. That is what I unlock in people. A sense of their own capability and worth.

So powerful and having leaders in many ways, people ask, well, how do I inspire my team to be engaged? Right. We look at how bad engagement scores are.

Yeah.

But I don't think leaders are looking in this direction. It's like, what if your role was to unlock the true potential of this person that you have on your team? And yes, you need to achieve the results that you've set out or you've been tasked with in the organization. But it doesn't have to be quite as linear as you think it may be. There may be a different way to unlock it that you haven't even thought about. But until you unlock the potential in your team member, you're not going to know how to achieve that. So I love this idea of curiosity, too, because it's asking ourselves these questions, but also, as you highlight, asking our team members these questions as well, to really know what is the place, what's. And I think it comes from this mindset, like, there's something here I don't know about this person. You know, so much. So many times we go into judgment of. I understand, like, they're good at this, they're bad at that. There they go again. And I like to say that curiosity is the opposite of judgment. Like, set aside what you think you already know, and let's be curious about what you don't know, because there could be something here to explore and achieving results in a different way and maybe even a more efficient way.

Yeah. And to your point, it starts with curiosity about yourself. Most people are terrified to look in the mirror. I mean, think about how many people over the past few years, the second they see themselves pop up on Zoom, they're like, oh, my gosh, my wrinkles. I mean, like, the number of things that the judgments people make we make about ourselves, the second we see ourselves is, I think, sort of very. It's. It's a very, I think, relevant, like, metaphor for. For allowing ourselves to fully show up and be seen at work and in life in general. And there are. There's just so much untapped potential within organizations and a lot of people, I think, especially leaders, we have a responsibility as leaders to do our own work. I mean, I've worked with all different coaches over the course of my career. I think every Leader should have a coach. And if I'm being completely honest, I think every leader should have a therapist. Because all of us have. Have behaviors that are maladaptive that we developed as a result of stuff that happened in our childhood. Because nobody, no matter how great your childhood was, got out of that unscathed for sure.

Like, literally exactly what we talk about in my book, how your childhood wounds show up in your leadership.

Yes, they do. And if you're not aware of that and you're not doing the work to, like, look, and it is. It is uncomfortable, it is difficult, it takes a long time. Again, like, we open the conversation, none of this is a quick fix, but the question is, what kind of a leader do you want to be?

And do you have the courage to see what patterns are holding you back?

Yeah.

And then actually break those patterns to create new ones, to really create a transformation in yourself as well as your team and organization.

Yeah. So, like they say, like what? Hurt people. Hurt people. But I also think transformed people transform people.

Yes. As people see you shift, they see the opportunity to shift.

Yeah.

And so as within, external shifts happen as well.

Exactly.

So what's one thing that you want to leave our listeners with? Maybe it's an action item they could take tomorrow. Or maybe it's just something to remember.

I mean, I really think there can offer two questions and then also mention. There's a question you asked a while back that I wanted to mention. A line, a lyric from a song that I wrote that I think is relevant, that would resonate with everyone that's with us today, listening. So two questions to ask yourself. So again, this is internal work before it's external work. What is it costing you to silence yourself or to hold yourself back and whatever. Pick one way that you are holding yourself back. Silencing yourself, doubting yourself at work. What is it costing you? Make a list. What are all the things it's costing you? Emotionally, mentally, psychologically, relationally, spiritually, professionally, physically? What is it costing you? Be honest with yourself. Maybe if you're not quite sure, ask somebody who knows you well. I bet they will have some insightful things to share with you. And then that second question of imagining, you know, like, what becomes possible if you are able to tap into the courage to stop silencing yourself and to move into this place of being more unmuted? What becomes possible in your life? What becomes possible in the lives of the people that you love? What becomes possible in the lives of the people you lead? So it's really asking the perspective of what's the pain point? Get connected to your pain because that's when we change. And then get connected to the possibility of what could happen if you live a different way. Like that is. That is a starting point. These are not questions most people have ever thought about. These are not questions that you're going to have an answer to probably in 20 seconds. But the kind of leaders that we're talking about and the kind of leaders that we're talking to are not people that are looking for a check the box solution. They're people that are willing to do the work. And that's why I'm sharing these particular questions, because they're hard. But I know that everyone listening is capable of doing them absolutely well.

Thank you so much for joining us on the Enlightened Executive. Where can people learn more about you and your work?

Yeah. So my website is Rachel Druckenmiller.com CK Rachel Druckenmiller and then on LinkedIn. I'm very active on LinkedIn. And then also if you want to be encouraged, like if you're one of those people that we were talking about who silences yourself and holds yourself back because you're afraid of what everyone else thinks of you and you're trying to just be the rule follower and do gooder that meet everyone else's expectations, there's a you can check out. I have several songs out. Wherever you stream music, you can find. Just search my name, you'll find my music. And I also have a music video on YouTube called Light Bulbs and I'll leave them with this lyric that I think will resonate with anyone who puts a little too much pressure on themselves. It's just be the strong one, the nothing's ever wrong one, the go along to get along one, you're fine. Like that sense that we feel like we have to be that kind of person. You do not have to be that type of person. You have the ability and the capability to speak up, to advocate for yourself, to ask for the help that you need to not stay in that place of isolation and in the dark. You don't. It is a choice. It is a choice to tell yourself that story, that you have to be that person who has it all together all the time. You do not need to be that person. And needing support does not mean that you are not competent. It just means that you're human.

Absolutely. Well, if you like this episode, you're not going to want to miss my interview with Tim Lupinaci, who shares his fascinating leadership journey by embracing purpose, courage, and authenticity. Thanks so much for joining us, Rachel, and let's all lead the way.

Sam.