Amina AlTai and Terry Rice on How To Develop a Healthy Mental Framework to Maximize Your Revenue

I'm in Brooklyn and I'm gonna. You are as well.

I'm also in Brooklyn. Yeah.

Yeah. It's funny talking to you because we live on the same street, but I haven't seen you in like two or three years.

Wait, do we live on the same street?

Yeah, you're on. We're on Brooklyn. Bedford.

Oh, I moved off of Bedford. But that is wild that we live.

Maybe that's why it seems I'm only.

A couple blocks away from Bedford, so I didn't realize that. That's.

All right. All right, cool. So we got Savio, we got Megan, who's also here in Brooklyn. Got Carissa, Jacqueline from Maryland. Good to see you. Oh, Saviour. New York. Cool, cool. Awesome. Got a New York crowd here. Who else do we got here? Who's. Who's dialing in? Where are you from? It's always nice to see. We get an international crowd sometimes, so pretty cool. But when I see people are dialing in from, like, Europe, I'm like, okay. Should probably try to keep them away awake. Yeah. Tanya and Georgia. Yeah. Yeah, like that. Cool. And while we're waiting, this is kind of warmed up here. Yes or no, do you think you're good at sales calls? Yes or no? Do you enjoy them? Are you good at them? Out of curiosity here. And we got Arnita calling in from California. And I'll start by saying, no, not really on my end. I. I'm not. And I think one reason being is because I never want to come up as too pushy and that can be detrimental to anyone. But I just, I'm, you know, a larger person. Like, I'm 6, 4, 225 pounds. So I don't be like, you know, buy this thing. So I naturally try not to be that guy, I think, during sales calls too. But luckily we have Amina here to teach us how to avoid those challenges and. And charge our true value. So I'll just tee things up. Right now we're talking about money mindset and not only how to navigate sales calls, but how to think about money in general in regards to your finances, in regards to your. Your upper limits of your revenue, what you're looking for, and even how to use money as a tool, which is really what it is. And again, on Maya, like I said, not good at that in regards to the whole sales thing. But we're gonna pick up some great tips today. And in case you've not met me before, my name is Terry Rice and I'm a business development consultant and what that involves normally is helping other entrepreneurs build their brand and revenue. I am also a contributor to Entrepreneur Magazine as well as the host of the upcoming podcast Launch youh Business, also brought to you by Entrepreneur. Another fun fact I currently have Covid. I'm on day like four right now, so I'm going to try to push through here. But I'm both hot and cold at the same time, which is why I have a hat on and a T shirt. And if you hear me pause awkwardly, it's because I might be getting short of breath or something like that. But I didn't want to miss today's event because I know how important it is for everyone here, including me. So I'm glad you're here and I'm going to let you take over and introduce yourself as well.

Thank you for having me, Terry. First of all, I do not believe that you are not good at sales. And also I cannot believe that you are hosting this conversation on day four of COVID But I'm super grateful that you are. You are a champion. You are always rallying. So thank you and thank you all so much for joining us. I hope this is of the highest service to you. So. So I'm Amina Altai. I'm a holistic leadership and mindset coach and my work sits at the intersection of leadership coaching, mindset coaching, and wellness coaching. Because in my experience and in my clients experience, we really need to examine all three areas to really thrive in our work and in our lives. And so I'm essentially a business or career coach and I help people either transition their careers or set up their businesses in a way that feels really authentic to them. And money mindset ends up being a really big piece of that, especially if we have our own businesses. Because in the world we are all often selling something, even in an interview process. Like we're selling our resume, we're selling our skills, we're all often selling something. And so we want to be in a healthy practice with it, we want to feel good at it so that we can really express ourselves so we can share our gifts with the world.

I hear you, and that's a pretty cool intersection that you're sitting at. But do you mind us giving some of your backstory of what you're doing before you chose this field? I know you had an agency job before. Do you mind telling us that? And then what was the catalyst for you making this shift to becoming a coach?

Yeah, so I started my career in corporate America, but very quickly was like, I don't know if this is for me, I just didn't feel fully expressed and like I was really doing the thing that I was meant to do. So a few years in, I decided that I was going to co found a marketing agency and I wanted to work with emerging female entrepreneurs. And so I co founded this hybrid marketing agency where on one side we'd work with emerging brands and we would take sweat equity and then the other side was traditional agency. And it was a really interesting journey for me. I call it my MBA because I learned so much. But I basically went into that experience without boundaries, without leadership skills, and was taking care of my clients, my teammates, and putting myself last. And I eventually burned out and I developed two autoimmune diseases. And looking back, it's actually one of the biggest gifts of my life because in that moment I really paused and said, okay, I have worked myself into a really not great situation and I need to choose something else. So at that point I sold my half the business to my business partner and I went on to, I took another job in corporate America to kind of find my bearings and get the good insurance and then basically went back to school to study coaching, nutrition, mindfulness, movement, kind of all these tools because I wanted to feel better in my own life. And when I did feel better in my own life, I was like, okay, now it is time to share these tools because if they've supported me, I know that they can support, support others. So I, I designed my curriculum around these pieces that were missing for me when I was on the journey and when I needed support.

Awesome. And thanks for sharing that because I just wanted to emphasize the authenticity behind what you're doing. You're not just like, hey, I'm going to try being a coach. Like, I had this problem and I couldn't find someone to help me with it, and now I am that person for other people. So I'm glad you're here. But part of what I want to solve for today is the issue with new entrepreneurs when, when they're first starting their business. So let's say within, you know, first launching to even three years in, not realizing how to properly price their businesses or their services. Right. And not charging their true value. So can you just start by unpacking what a mind money mindset is? What does that mean when you, when you bring that term up?

Yeah. So money mindset. We all have belief systems about every area of our lives. So we have belief systems around our career, around money, around relationships, around where we want to live. We have Beliefs around these things. And these beliefs were often cemented in childhood. Right. They're kind of shaped by family system, culture, subculture, et cetera. And they're often unconscious and unexamined. They basically are operating systems that are running in the background, and we often don't realize that we have them until we meet resistance. And we ask ourselves, okay, what is the story that I'm telling myself here? So when it comes to money, we all have a money story. Your money story might be really free and liberating and expansive. Or. Or you might have a money story that was like, mine. That was like, who am I to make this money? And I can't get beyond this point. Or people like me don't do these things. And so I had all these stories when I first came to entrepreneurship around what was possible for me, and it was really getting in my way. Until one day I was like, no, like, I want to do that thing, and I'm going to figure out exactly what is getting in the way so I can move it out of the way so I can do the thing that I'm supposed to do here. And so we all have these money mindsets, and we just want to get a sense of what the story is so we. We can shift it to be most in support of the life and business or career that we want to have.

It's funny, you bring up childhood and how that can impact our money mindset, and I'll expose myself here. When I was a kid, I was not allowed to open new containers of food. Like, it was like orange juice or potato chips or whatever. I was not allowed to open them myself.

Yeah.

And don't know why. It's just a rule. But even as an adult, sometimes I'm like, can I open that? And I'm like, you paid for it, dude. Like, just open the chips, you know? So it's like, it still, like, stays stuck in my head, even though I'm like, you know, in my 40s now and whatnot. So can you just give us, like, a few tips on how to. I don't want to say correct the money mindset, but how to improve one. So you're able to charge a true value and you're not afraid to eat chips.

Yeah. So first and foremost, we want to understand the story that we're telling ourselves. So literally starting with an exercise of what's the story that you're telling yourself around money? What's the story that you're telling yourself around pricing for new entrepreneurs? And this is true for me. This is true for a lot of my clients. The story that we often tell ourselves is, I, I'm brand new. Who am I to charge this thing? There's all these other people out there that have been doing it so much longer than me, and their prices are over here. Like, who am I to do this right? And that's kind of where the imposter syndrome comes up. But also, who are you not to? Especially if you're in integrity with your service and you're providing a transformation, you can charge what you desire, what the service is worth, right? So we want to understand the story that we're telling ourselves there and also get really clear on where that story came from. Most of these stories aren't our own. And I just want you all to take that in for a second. Most of these stories aren't our own. My story. So my family system was really interesting. Classic, wonderful, multicultural, dysfunctional family. And so kind of like very up and down with money. So when I came to entrepreneurship, my, my relationship with money was very up and down. I'd have these great months and then I would have like, really terrible months. And I was like, this is not how I want to live. And I need to understand the story here. And there was kind of like a lot of hiding around money in my family and realizing that was part of it too. So as you're thinking about the story that you're telling yourself around money and what you're charging, I also want you to ask yourself what you. What was the conversation around money in your family system? How did your parents talk about money? What did money cause or bring to the family? For some people it brings joy. For some people it brings a lot of conflict. So we want to understand the associations that you're making with money too. So understanding the story you're telling yourself, the relationship that your parents had with money, the conversation around money, even how it was handled or dealt with, that's going to impact how you show up in your business. And it might sound so far fetched, but it really does impact us, right? Because these beliefs are shaped in childhood and they direct our lives, as Carl Jung says. And we call it fate, but it doesn't have to be fate.

I like that. And it reminds me of something I heard recently where you have to doubt your doubts. So if you're saying, you know, why am I worth this much money? It's like, well, why am I not? And when I talk to people and they're like, you know, how can I charge this much money? I'm just starting out so and so forth. I say, well, do you plan on ripping anyone off?

Right.

And they normally say no. And I'm like, well, fine, just be honest. If you're like a three out of 10 on the level of expertise, be the best three out there. But be honest that you're a three, and therefore, you won't feel like you're robbing anyone. You just, you know, you're. You're evolving still. You're ascending.

Yeah.

So along those lines, can you just, at a high level, give me your thoughts around imposter syndrome? What is it? How do we solve for it? How does it impact us? And before you do, is this resonating with the rest of you? Because I'm wondering if you're having the same issues I had where you're like, just doubting yourself, how much should I charge? You know, am I worth much fun? I just want to know how it's resonating with the audience. And then if you could lead in with the whole. Your thoughts on imposter syndrome, that'd be great too.

Yeah. I love what you're saying. Like, if you're a three, be the best three you can be. The way that I language it, but I think we're saying the same thing. Is that be really anchored in the transformation that you provide. Like, go all out on that specific transformation. You don't need to do everything but really anchor in that one transformation. Change somebody's life around one thing and really play all out for it. And then you'll feel like, okay, yes, I can charge this thing. So imposter syndrome. This is a term that was coined in the 70s.

I want to pause here. I apologize. I want to pause here. That's why I think it's so important to niche down. You said anchor yourself to that one thing, and I was talking to someone yesterday, and she's saying, I'm doing this for my business, that for my business, and that for my business. I'm like, what do you like? She's like, these two things. I'm like, well, just do that. Right? So then you won't feel like an imposter with the other things, because you're not anchored in that. You don't care about it that much. We can be really good at those other two things and then go from a three to a four to a five and a six, because you're not spreading out your energy across all these other disciplines. So I just want to jump in there.

Okay. On that thought. So this is like one of My favorite books right now. We Should All Be Millionaires by Rachel Rogers. Sorry, like, having trouble getting it in the camera.

I got it. Yeah.

And it's such an incredible book, right? And she's talking about what you're talking about of having, like, a signature offer, a power offer niching down. It takes time to get there. Right. It takes time to really understand what we love, what we're great at, where the impact can be, but focusing on that thing versus spreading ourselves super thin, because then we can double down. Then we can double down on the transformation and be the best at that very specific thing.

So let's unpack the book. Sorry, can I ask another question, by the way? You can all ask questions too, because I know I'm the only one, like, asking them right now, interrupting every two seconds. But you mentioned a signature offer and a power offer. Can you just unpack what that means as well, please?

So I use those two terms interchangeably. And Rachel Rogers uses the term power offer. So basically, she alludes to. To a signature offer that is really powerful, that you know that you can have transformation around. And then what are the different ways that you can package that thing? Right? So my. My power offer, my signature offer is my coaching, right? That is like, where I am the best around, like, career transitions and setting up your business. And so there's different ways that I share that. Right? So there's one on one, there's small group, and then there is digital offers. And it's the same curriculum. It's just packaged a little bit differently for people that are in different points of the journey. But that is my curriculum that I have knocked out of the park that I know people really transform around. And so that's really what my business is built around.

Got it. Okay, I'm gonna stop interrupting you. Floor is yours.

I love the interruptions. It's great. More organic imposter syndrome. Yeah.

Yeah, let's go.

Okay. So it was a term that was coined in the 70s and specific. So it was these two researchers that were studying female PhD students, and they noticed that these female PhD students started to question their abilities and to doubt themselves, because they looked around the room, and it was a room full men, and they felt in the minority, and they felt like they didn't belong. So imposter syndrome is essentially a label that alludes to a set of behaviors that has this question, our worthiness. And there's some conversation around imposter syndrome these days about it's actually not an appropriate label anymore because it's sort of Pathology, like by calling it a syndrome, we're pathologizing a perfectly normal set of behaviors. Everybody doubts themselves in some way. Those of us that are underrepresented leaders or minorities, for example, we might question our abilities and doubt ourselves more because we haven't seen ourselves represented in certain spaces. And there's lots of work that we can do to overcome that as well. And I also want to name that in certain spaces there is sort of systemic structural oppression that, you know, we can't mindset, coach ourselves around, but we can clean up our side of the street and like really anchor in our worthiness and do that work. And that can be really supportive as well.

Yeah, I'm always impressed by the fact that you have like actual data points and research around your thoughts. Me, I'm just like, I got a feeling and I go off on it. But you're always, you know, it's backed by, by science and peer reviewed research. So I appreciate that. And what I want to do is get kind of into the nuts and bolts of this. You know, how does your money mindset impact the rates you would charge as an entrepreneur? And how can we change that? Because on my end, if someone's like, how much should I charge? I'll say fear plus 20% and it's like, what does that mean, dude? Like, you know what I mean? It helps directionally. But how can we just in that, in those highly consequential situations when someone says, what are your rates? How do you show up effectively and confidently where you're also making sure you're getting compensated properly?

Yeah. So I think there's a couple of things, right, so around the imposter syndrome and the worthiness, we want to really shift the story there. So, like, what is the story that we're telling ourselves? So I happen to coach a lot of people that want to become coaches because I've walked that path. And a lot of them will say, like, well, I don't have experience like you. I don't have experience like this other teacher. I don't have experience like this other person. But we're all really unique, right? And I believe, I don't really believe in competition in the traditional sense. I believe that there is really space for everybody because, like, for example, like, who's going to want to work with you is going to be very different than who wants to work with me. And so I think the more that we understand our exceptional abilities and we stack those abilities, the more unique and differentiated we're going to be kind of going Back to your niching down, right? No one could ever be you. No one could ever deliver the service in the way that you could. So we want to understand the story that you're telling yourself there and reframe that story. So if the story that I'm telling myself is, who am I to charge this thing? I'm brand new to the space. Let's reframe it by citing examples to the contrary. So we want to name. Okay, well, who am I to do this thing? Well, I'm an accomplished business person, and I have 10 years experience in this other space. And also, when I baited this offer, I knocked it out of the park. So you want to find confirmatory evidence to prove out the new hypothesis. Because here's the thing. Our brains are belief engines and they have confirmation bias, right? So our brains literally go through the world. We've decided something, and we aggregate data to prove out that thing. So if I believe that I'm not worthy, you can bet your biscuits that my brain is going to go through the world aggregating data to be like, oh, look, here's all the reasons that I'm not worthy. But the opposite can also be true, and we just need to look for that evidence. So it's just an exercise of aggregating new data points to show our brains that there's another way. And over time, what happens is our brains kind of create new neural pathways. So instead of going to the default, I'm not worthy, over time, if we practice that new thought, if we practice that new belief, we create a new neural pathway, and that becomes the default for us. So over time, it's like, oh, I am worthy and I can charge this thing.

I love it. And Carissa, saying, as a scientist, I also appreciate the science. So thank you. And what you're saying in regards to finding this new evidence, Dr. Michael Gervais, who's a high performance psychologist, says that you need to document what are called epic thoughts. And epic thoughts are you writing down times that you were successful in challenging situations that could be making a sports team, getting a job, whatever it is. Because confidence comes from past experiences, not from pep talks or slogans or, you know, motivational posters. So it's. It's a line of. What you're saying is actually write down these things like, look, I've done this before and I can do this as well. But if you don't take the time to front load yourself with this confidence, then you're just out there in the wild trying to make things up on the spot. And, yeah, you can default to what you're saying before, which are these. These negative behaviors. So. So I hear you there. But one thing you also talk about a lot is upper limits. And you could ask someone, you know, hey, you know, how much do you want to make next year? Or, what's the most you can make next year? So and so forth. And people will have varying numbers. You know, someone might say $100,000 seems like a lot, so I might say a million. And you give a lot of advice on how to, first of all, increase your upper limits, but also identify why they're so. So low. Can you unpack that as well, please?

Yeah, love that question. So upper limits is a term coined by Gay Hendricks. He's the author of the Big League, which is an amazing book if you have not read it. And so Gay Hendricks says that upper limits are false ceilings held in place by negative belief systems. So it's this arbitrary ceiling that we place on top of ourselves, held in place by a belief system that we're not worthy of charging more. And so we all have these ceilings, right? Most of us, it's maybe an edge case if you don't have the ceiling. And if you don't have the ceiling, congratulations. You're amazing. Um, but most of the people that I've worked with, we all have some form of ceiling. And it's shaped, again, by sort of those belief systems that are unconscious and unexamined. And when I first came to coaching, I had a ceiling, too. I remember, like, my first year, I, you know, did well. Second year, I, like, hit this threshold. Third year, I was at the same threshold, and I was like, why can't I break past this point? And I ended up doing a hypnosis session. I love hypnosis. It's very helpful for me. And I uncovered this memory where I was nine years old and I learned how much my dad made. And I was telling myself the story that, like, I cannot outpace or outgrow my parents. Like, that's not a safe to do. And I shifted that memory, I shifted that belief, and then shifted my revenue. And so we really want to understand where our limits are, why those are our limits. I mean, we keep ourselves in places because there's a payoff, right? So for me, that payoff was psychological safety. It felt psychologically safe to stay at that point. It felt scary to, like, grow beyond my parents. And I felt like, oh, my gosh, I'm going to be cast out of the family system or whatever the story was. That I was telling myself. And so we want to understand where the limit is. It's really helpful to know where it came from and then identify if we can push past it. And I think a great way for us to transcend that is really understanding the story behind it and then also finding people in the world outside of us that move through life like we do and are able to move to that next level. That can be really inspiring. My friend Lacey Phillips calls it belief system expanders. So basically, people out in the world that expand your belief system of what is possible for you beyond your ceiling.

I dig that. So, first of all, I think it's cool that you went through this hypnosis session to find out where this upper limit came from. And, you know, came from your father inadvertently. My dad always said, you'll never make more money than me. Like, that was his way of motivating me. So that's that tough love, I guess. And it's funny, when I first went independent, my goal, my upper limit, was to make the same amount that I made at Facebook independently. I'm like, well, if I can just do that, that's great. And a false ceiling, right? Because if you're an entrepreneur, your limit is limitless, right? So you have to remove that belief. And I'm seeing Rachel Swanson here. Rachel's actually really good friends with my wife. She has a son named Axel, which is a freaking awesome name. And she's saying she keeps a kudos folder in her outlook to remind herself of the impact she has on her team. So everyone follow Rachel's lead. Every time you get a good testimonial, a good thank you email, whatever it is, keep it there, you know, because it can obviously help you. It was front load that confidence and maybe just cheer yourself up when you're looking for it.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that makes so much sense. And our brains tend to hyper focus on the negative, so if we reinforce the positive, that really is a way to expand our worthiness and just remind ourselves of how great we really are.

So let's get even greater at sales calls, right? Because when you're going into sales calls, like, I mean, I remember this one person I was training, he sent me a video of him going through a sales call saying, how can I improve? And he was like asking questions, like reading up a list, asking questions. Person would answer, he wouldn't even reply. He would just ask another question and like, well, right now I tell you where you're messing up. You're not interacting whatsoever, but there Are some basic questions you should ask. Right? You know, what's going on? How can I help you? What would stop you from saying yes right now? Who else has to say yes to sign this contract? But how can we just be more confident in sales calls in general? Because I do want to tell you one more story before you jump in. This one time I was talking to this person in regards to helping her with her company, and she's like, hey, what's, what's your rate? And I said, the rate. And then she's like, wait, can you say it again? You broke up a little bit. And then for some reason I said a lower rate. I have no idea why. It was like icing the kicker in football where you call a timeout before I can learn, like, field goal. Like, she said that. And to this day, I'm pretty sure she did it on purpose, but it worked. So how can we not mess up like that and just remix our rate just because someone faked a bad signal? Like, what's the best way to front load that confidence and navigate challenges during sales calls as well?

Yeah, I think that is the best thing that we can do is really be there with the human in the sales call, in the most human capacity. So I think of sales calls and sales conversations as the hero's journey. So there is a call to adventure for the person on the other side. They want something, they need something. They want to change something in their lives. They need a service or a product. There's a call to. To adventure. And in the call to adventure, they're looking for a teacher, right? To. They're looking for somebody on the other side to either provide the service to provide the product for them. Inside the hero's journey, there's a death and rebirth and then there's a coming home. So I'll tell you more about each of these. So we come into the conversation and I believe that sales really is service. Like, we are here to provide a service to be of the highest service to somebody. They can have a transformation on the other side. Even if we're selling a widget, right. It's still going to do something for that person's experience and transform them in some way. And so always grounding ourselves in that of like, I'm actually not here. I believe that if we're in the sales conversation banking on a yes, there's some codependency there. Right. We're not actually showing up in full service because we're just so waiting for the yes versus actually being of the highest Service. And when we are of the highest service, more often than not, you're going to get a yes because, like, you really showed people what you could do. But when we go in through that codependent lens of, like, I really need the yes, people on the other side can feel it, and it's not the most supportive experience. So we really want to anchor the fact that this is service and you're here to provide a transformation. And then actually, what was your original question? I want to make sure I'm actually answering it and not just, like, rambling.

How do we not mess up sales calls?

Great. How do we not mess up sales calls? Be human and take people deep. So obviously, in the service that I'm providing, it's about coaching, which is really about transformation. So my job is to take people as deep as possible. So I want to understand what their desires are. Like, why are they coming into the space? What do they want in their life that they don't have? And then I always want to know what's getting in the way for them. And this is a really interesting question because I want to know what's getting in the way from maybe a structural perspective, but also from a mindset perspective. And in that set that, like, in that question, we can take them so deep around their own experience. Because I think so much of the work, whether you're selling a widget or you're selling coaching, is around mindset. So tell me, like, where are you getting in your own way? And, like, this is where we crack people open and they really see, okay, wow, this person's asked me the right questions. This person is able to then show up and, like, offer the thing that I need. And also in the way that I'm sharing sales conversations, in the way that I teach sales is, like, very consensual. So every step, we're taking somebody further, and we're never putting something on somebody that they didn't ask for. So even before I share my offer or I share my coaching package, I ask, like, you know, how committed are you to growth and change? And, like, how would you feel about me as your coach? And then, are you interested in my package? So every step of the way, we're kind of checking in to make sure that the person on the other side is consenting. Because there's nothing worse in a sales conversation than not consenting and people putting their stuff on you. That's when it starts to feel, like, really gross, sleazy. All the things that we associate with bad sales. So consent every step of the way deep transformation. Asking, asking big questions, like, not keeping it surface. There was a time where this is probably going to be a lot, but there's a time where people would like roll up into sales conversations with me and like, they would cry. And I went through like several months of this and then there was a period where they stopped C.R. i was like, am I not going deep enough with them? Like, where are the tears? Like, did I mess this up? We really want to hold space for people to bring the fullness of their human experience.

Why are they crying? Like, what were you saying or asking to meet them cry?

I was really asking about what they want and where they're in their own way. And I think when it comes to growth and transformation, people really want to live their best lives. And to be really honest about when they're not.

No, I hear you. I mean, do tiers normally, like, increase the conversion rate of these calls?

Is that a real question?

Yes.

There'S a time where I did notice a trend. I'm going to be. Okay, here's how I'd actually language it. Depth increases the conversion and tiers, I think oftentimes are a reflection of the depth.

Okay, that's. That's a very good way to answer it. And I think that's why what I was saying earlier, this person is asking questions questions but not responding to the question. You want to infer like, oh, this is the impact. Oh, this also in fact impact this as well. Because that way the person sees that you're thinking from their perspective and not just. Not just yours. And I like the part where you're saying, ask permission to pitch. So what I've done before, they would say like, hey, what's going on? And they'll still, you know, complain about everything. I'm like, would you like to hear how I could help you with that? What are they going to say? No, it's like that it's kind of obvious that you can go ahead and pitch now and then something like, well, based on what I described, does that sound like it would help? Right. So getting permission X, Y and Z and another. Again, these are all tactics. I think you're really good at going the game in between the game. I love asking what would stop you from saying yes today. And that way you can expose all of their reservations, any kind of issues they have on the call as opposed to hoping they'll respond to your email or proposal X weeks later. Another thing I like to do is say, well, when would you like to make a decision by and that way you know how long you should follow up with them for, right? They say you have to decide by October. Hey, come late September, probably gonna happen, and you're good, but you can front load yourself for success and just let yourself know when to keep it moving by asking those questions. But I want to go deeper because I always say even as a seller, you should be the buyer. And there's often times when I'm talking to someone and I decide I just don't want to work with them for whatever reason. And what I used to do is I would lie, I would say, oh, sorry, I'm actually booked. And they would see me on LinkedIn two days later. Like, if you need help growing your business, call me right now. They're like, dude, you obviously are not booked. So I think it goes back to money mindset though, because if you have a scarcity mindset, you'll say yes to whoever you who will say yes to you, and then you're miserable for whatever reason and then you can't show up fully for everyone else because you're being brought down by this other person. So how do we in this moment stay present enough and to stay confident enough in our abilities to say no to opportunities that aren't good and how do we recognize them as well?

Yeah, so the fear and scarcity piece is so important. So two things on that. One, the mindset piece of the epic stories, like you were saying before, constantly reminding yourself that you have done this in the past, that you can hang out, you don't have to be in an engagement with somebody that you don't want to be in engagement with and always be cultivating. So like always be in the sales conversation, in the sales cycle so that you have lots of opportunities and you're not again, kind of codependent on this one person saying a yes. And I also really agree with what you're saying too about using time on the call. I never share pricing outside of a conversation because I want to really understand what's coming up for somebody when I share that with them. So understanding their fears, uncertainties and doubts as I share that pricing with them. Because again, it's an opportunity to go deeper with them and it's truly really an opportunity to understand their money mindset. Like do they feel like they can spend this on themselves or what comes up for them when they think about investing this kind of money. And it's an opportunity to navigate that together. And I'm so with you. I'm being really honest. If you feel like the person on the other side is not for you saying that. Say the thing. It's so generous to say the thing. It is not generous to lie. And I've totally been there, too, where I was like, I didn't want people not to like me, and I didn't want to say the thing. But it's really generous to just be upfront because we save everybody's time. And so if you feel like somebody's not for you, just saying, you know, I'm not. Not sure that this is a fit and that this is a line, but if there's any other resources I can send to you or if I can direct you to other coaches, I'd be really happy to do that, because you can still be generous and of service and this person not be for you.

It's funny, I don't even do that. I'll tell you why. And this is not me being heartless. It's like, I could sir recommend you to someone else, but then I'm still, like, somewhat attached to this relationship you might have with them, and I just don't want to ever have this conversation again. So for me, I'm like, I'm just. I'm done. I'm like, google it or something. Like, I'm not trying to be rude, but it's just like, my time is constrained. Like, I have four kids, and I have other stuff to do, so I can't have extra stuff going on in the background. So I'm just offering another alternative for people. If you just really want to be done, just be done. And you won't think about it after you say it. It's just out of sight, out of mind. So just putting that out there. Let's talk about traction, too, because that's part of revenue. And when I first started my company, I'm like, three months into it, and this company reached out to me. They wanted me to help them with this, like, almost like a buzzfeed type website to do marketing for it. And they're gonna give me $20,000 a month as a retainer. And I said no, because we live in Brooklyn. The company's based in Long Island. It would have been an hour and a half drive each way with traffic. And I want to spend more time with my family. I only had one kid back then, but, you know, she was cool. So I was like, I don't want to do this, but at the time, I was making, like, maybe 3,000 bucks a month. Like, I wasn't doing well whatsoever by, you know, my standards. At least back then. But every time I think about it now, I'm like, I'm so glad I said no. Because if my mindset was that of scarcity, that I would never make $20,000 a month unless I took this opportunity right now. I'd still be driving back and forth between Long island right now because of that. So how do we. In those moments where you're like, gosh, you know, like, should I take the money and run? Should I go back to a 9 to 5? How do we push through these challenges that are involved with ramping up your business, which can easily take 18 months, depending on what you're doing? And there's all these distractions, all these doubts, all these naysayers between month zero and month 18.

Yeah. So a couple of things. So I believe that when we're building our businesses and we transition into something that is ours, and we're building the great work of our life, we want it to really sit at the intersection of where our gifts are, so our most exceptional abilities, what we value. So you valuing family and family time and you designing your work around that was so important. What we want to impact in the world, like, what we want to shape and change, lead better, make whole what brings us joy and what we need. And oftentimes, when we come to entrepreneurship, I see this all the time. We think, okay, I used to have this corporate job where I sold my soul to make this salary. So now I'm coming to entrepreneurship, and I get to do the thing that I love, but it means that I can't make the money that I want. But actually, there's a third option. And the third option is that we can do the things that we love and we can make the money that we want to make. Right. But it's about shifting the mindset, and it's. It's also about having a wide enough net and ABC osb, cultivating so that you have lots of opportunities and you're not dependent on this one thing. Also, oftentimes when we're new to the process of, like, starting our business or, you know, launching a new offer, I notice something that happens. It's kind. Yes, it's kind of a phenomenon. I call it the shiny object syndrome, where it's like, we have cast the net. We know exactly who we want to work with, what the dream is, and then something comes in that looks like 95% like the dream, but it's not the dream. And so it's this opportunity to get really real with ourselves and say, okay, Is this, you know, hitting my gifts, my values, what I want to impact, what brings me joy and what I need? Or is it something that looks like that? Right? And if we're coming from that place of fear and scarcity, oftentimes we'll take the shiny object because we don't believe that we can have the thing that we actually want. So that's a time to really double down on the beliefs and also double down on our sales efforts. But not from a place of freneticism, a space of deep faith, knowing that it's going to come for you.

I almost took the shiny object because it was like, year one. My old company, like Adobe, I used to work there, like, years before. It was like five years after I left, like, hey, do you want to come back here and have this job, make a bunch of money? And I was like, oh, gosh, I could just be done with this stuff. Like, no more hustling, no more cold calling, no more hoping someone responds to my emails. And luckily, I keep a journal and I keep a gratitude list. And the word autonomy came up, like, nearly every day. And I looked at it and I was like, that's why I gotta keep doing this. So I respectfully removed myself from the interview process, but I was close to going back into saying, hey, let's do this. And to your point about being run in your beliefs, I think it's important to do that. And I would encourage everyone to have a vision for their life. Like a documented vision, not a goal. A goal is different. A goal is to make $400,000 a year. Cool. Get it? Whatever, right? A vision is. What does that look like? What does it feel like? What is your day to day like? What circles are you known in, you know, kind of work are you doing, what kind of books are you reading, what stages you're on, so and so forth. Because if you want to achieve that vision more than you want to avoid all the challenges that you're going to have to face in order to achieve it, you'll have all the motivation needed to need to go forward. And then beyond that, you can reverse engineer what success looks like. Someone who lives this life where they're on podcasts, doing, you know, all these cool talks, what are they doing right now? Probably reading a book, right? Because what are you talking about on the podcast? So you can easily do that and then find what I would call, like a remote mentor. Someone who you don't actually know, but you can follow and reverse engineer their steps as well. So do you mind if you have any thoughts on just having a vision for your life, having a purpose, any kind of thing like that, do you mind sharing your thoughts on that?

Yeah. Well, first of all, I just want to commend you too, for not taking the shiny object. I think you have so much integrity and like, real talk, I have taken quite a few shiny objects in my time.

Well, let me jump in real quick. 1. One of the questions I asked during the interview was, do I have to come to work every day? And this is like 2017. So that was a weird question back then. And they're like, yes. I'm like, I'm not getting back on that train. So it wasn't just like, integrity. It was a little bit of laziness.

Not to not be on that train.

Yeah, pretty much.

Okay, so I'm with you. Vision is everything. So when I work with somebody, I have a framework called the Aligns Leadership Framework, because we want to create a blueprint for the. For our lives and for our work.

Can we pause? Where's all this? Can you shout out your website real quick or. Megan, can you put in Amina's website? Because you're saying a lot of cool stuff. I see people, like, repeating it. Like, I see Miller saying stuff here. I see Erica's repeating you. Rachel's chiming in as well. We all need to know where to, like, document this stuff. I'm sure we're scrambling and taking notes, but how can we. How can we keep up with you and proactively by grabbing your website right now.

Great. So it's aminaultai.com and Megan, thank you for dropping the spelling in there because I know it's not the most phonetic and I also talk really fast, so Classic New Yorker over here.

I'm racing you, though, because I speak quickly too. We'll see how this goes with the captions down here.

Yeah. So, okay. Vision Align Leadership Framework. So kind of what I talked about before, of really understanding our most exceptional abilities, what brings us joy, what we need, what we want to answer. Impact in the world. Right. So kind of that being the lens to shape our work and then understanding our mission, our vision, the vehicles that we want to create and what we're here to teach and share. And that's kind of the foundation that I do with all of my clients to understand what we're putting out into the world. And that sort of shapes the vision. I also invite them to write the dream for their lives. And the dream is directional because as we arrive at every new level, we change we grow, we have new information. So, you know, the thing about vision and dreaming is I invite you to update it all the time because we're humans and we're always evolving. And so the rigid dream is a really tough dream to live into. So always evolving it. But when we create that kind of that aligned leadership framework, that blueprint, we can hold it up against every scenario, every job, every potential lead and say, is this really the dream? Is this the thing that I desire for my life? Like you were saying, Terry, when you were like, I really want autonomy. And this is checking all these other boxes, but it's not checking the autonomy box. So you rule that out automatically. And you know that you can be true to your vision because what's, what's in front of you is not the vision. It looks and acts kind of like the vision, but it's not it.

So there's a lot of deep work that I'm hearing, right? Because we're talking about like how to make more money, right? And at a surface level, it's like, how do I get good at sales calls and how should I plan my revenue for Q1, Q2, so and so forth. But if you're not grounded in all this deep inner work, then the exterior stuff isn't going to land well. And I think that's a problem I see with a lot of entrepreneurs is they want the nuts and bolts. Just give me the nuts and bolts. What do I do? And I'll explain that. Like, that's kind of hard. That's why I need mindset. Like I told you that, you know, on the first call. But, and this is again quoting Dr. Michael Gervais. There's only three things as humans that we can, we can train, we can train our body, we can train our craft, and we can train our mind. But we spend a disproportionate amount of time in the first two and not nearly enough on the third. But if we did, we'd get better outcomes from everything because we have this strong inner game to help us find success. So I'm glad that you put that work in. And it sounds hard to me for someone to like, say like, okay, I'm develop my vision, my belief system, so on and so forth, because it's something so esoteric or woo woo that some people just don't bother doing it. But if you put in that work and you literally, like just think about thinking, you'll be so much more impactful in your life and what you choose to do with it.

Yes. Did you by any chance see the Michael Jordan documentary the Last Dance?

I did, yeah.

Okay. So I'm fully obsessed with this from a mindset perspective. I invite you all to watch it. I think it is really riveting. I love watching people that are the greatest of all time, like, that are just like, at the top of their game and have achieved so much. Because I want to understand what went into it. And there was this moment in the last episode. I think it was the last episode where it's 1998, right? And Michael Jordan's talking about winning the playoffs for the sixth time, and he's comparing it to 1993. And he's like, in 1993, my body was, like, totally different. I was younger. I didn't have miles on the clock. Like, athletically, I was very different. But in 1998, I had an older, more tired body, but I had mindset that I did not have in 1993. And like, that part, I was like, oh, my God. That is like a tweetable quotable right there. Because that is the thing, right? Experience. And if we really anchor into it and we shift our mindset along the way, that's the thing that can really get us over the finish line. Because we won't always have the legs, but we can continue to hone the mind. Can continue to hone the mindset.

Yeah. Kind of comparing myself to Michael Jordan. When I first started my career as an independent entrepreneur, I had one kid, right? So I had more free time, right? I'm going to the 6:00am CrossFit class. You know, I'm like napping during the day and stuff like that. Now fast forward, you know, X years later, I got four kids, none of that time. But I'm so much more efficient with my time because I'm bolder with my actions and I'm bolder with my asks. So, like, I have a speaking engagement at. I guess I shouldn't say it right now in front of everyone because I might mess it up. But charging a lot of money to go speak somewhere in the west coast, we'll put it that way, right? Whereas X years ago I would have said 500 bucks, hoping they said yes. Right now I'm saying this much money or I ain't getting on a plane, right? And it works. So I think that's again, part of developing your mindset, understanding your self worth, and just being able to make that big ask in also having a better relationship with failure. Because I see failure, first of all, as data. I see it as me getting time Back, too. That didn't work. Cool. Now I can do something else, you know what I mean? Because I always have, like, a billion ideas running through my head. So as soon as I get that note, boom, that's gone. Now go focus on these other three. Whereas before, I would see failure as a setback and, you know, hanging my head down, now I'm like, okay, cool. You know, that didn't work. I've been through worse, though, so I'm going to keep it moving. And I think if you can have that mindset, even with sales calls, there's this book called Go for no, and it's saying you should literally look forward to people saying no on the call because statistically you're getting closer to a yes.

Yes.

So it just changes the whole relationship with it.

Yeah, I fully agree with you, and I don't really. I think failure has interesting connotations, is different for all of us, but I don't really believe in failure in the same way that you're describing, because we get to growth mindset every opportunity. If we miss the mark, let's aggregate data, let's look at it and understand why we missed the mark, and then let's move forward. And the thing about the no, I see that to my clients all the time, because you're absolutely right. And the other thing that I want to say, this is sort of a tangent, but it goes back to pricing and owning our worth. But I want to say that when we. When we minimize our pricing because we feel like the person on the other side is going to have a judgment or isn't going to be able to pay it or something like that, if we're judging, making a judgment about it. Right. We're often in codependency, where we're really trying to hang out for the yes. And our worth is sort of tied into this person saying yes versus truly being of service. And then if we decide the pricing for the other person on the other side, we make them small. So give people the opportunity before you kind of cut yourself short and you change your pricing or you make it smaller. Give the other person the opportunity on the other side to swing forward if they can, because otherwise we're taking the opportunity and the choice off the table for them.

I am. If you're okay with it, I'd love for you to tell a story, and I think you'll know which one I'm talking about in a moment where there was a person who said they couldn't afford your service, and then a few weeks later, you found that they paid for some kind of surgery. You know what I'm talking about?

Oh, my God, yes.

Do you feel comfortable sharing it or.

Do you rather not? What story are you referencing? Okay, so here's the thing. I don't have the money. Or, like, I can't afford. This is so subjective to everybody, right? Because we all value different things in the world, right? So, like, I really value personal development. Like, so much of my money goes on to coaching. Like, it's absurd, but, like, I'm a coach. If I wasn't spending money there, it might be a problem. But we all value really different things in the world. Like, Terri, you value your family so much, and I'm sure that's where you're making a lot of your investments. We all. These different values, we're all investing in different ways. So when we say we can't afford, it's so subjective. So I had somebody, a client, this is years ago now, who was like, yeah, I really. I can't afford coaching. And then, I don't know. I ran into them a couple of weeks later, and it somehow came up, but they had. They had decided to invest in plastic surgery instead of coaching, and they ended up paying much more for that service than for coaching. And it was sort of this light bulb moment for me where I was like, oh, it's really not about the price tag. It is really not about the money. It is about the desire to transform on the other side and their values. So she didn't want to transform in the coaching relationship. She wanted to transform her body. And that is totally her choice and her. Right. And it just wasn't aligned. Right. So that was also really freeing because I was like, it doesn't matter what I showed up with. The desire wasn't there for her, and her values were different.

Yeah, I love that story because, I mean, there's so many times when I see that happen where I'll say, like, hey, you know, I charged this much.

But the desire wasn't there for her, and her values were different.

Yeah, I love that story because, I mean, there's so many times when I see that happen where I'll say, like, hey, you know, I charge this much for. Let's say it's like an hour of consulting. That's gonna be like 700 bucks, right. Just because I don't do it too much. But I'm like, in that hour, you can learn stuff that's gonna help you make hundreds of thousands or millions. And if you don't see the value in that. But you are spending $10,000 a month on Facebook ads that are not converting. You don't get it. Like, there's something. There's an intellectual inconsistency. If you will pay. And this. And this is a true story. One time I was talking to this client or a prospect, and they make women's clothing, and they literally spent $30,000 on Facebook ads that year and sold one dress. One dress. And I'm like, hey, I can help you with that. If I consult you, my rate's $3,000. And like, oh, that's way too expensive. And I'm like, $30,000 for nothing. Wasn't. And by the way, the one person who bought a dress, they took her out to dinner to learn more about their target audience. That was their research. The one person who bought a dress, they wanted to know everything about her so they could find a million more. So I was like, your logic is flawed, and your clothes are probably horrible, too. That's why nobody wants them. But when I heard that, I was like, you know, you can't internalize people. Saying no is a failure on you.

Right.

It's. Maybe they just don't see it. Right. They don't see the value for whatever reason. But if you take those as a loss and it lets you. Makes you change your rate or something like that, then nobody wins because you can't help them, and you're hurting yourself.

Yeah. Yeah. I love the way that you put that.

Yeah. Cool. So let's grab some questions from the audience if we have them. But what I. You keep on bringing up this term zone of genius, and I say it a lot because I learned it from you, but can you just unpack why it's so important to understand your zone of genius when it comes to being an entrepreneur?

Yeah, okay. I'll try and make this fast. But Gay Hendricks, in his book the Big Leap, talks about four zones. So our zone of genius, our zone of excellence, our zone of competence, and our zone of incompetence. And we all operate in all four zones. Most of us spend the majority of our life in our zone of excellence. And this is the space that we're practiced, polished, and proficient, where we went to school and we clocked our 10,000 hours. But the thing about our zone of excellence is that we have to, like, push and force to be amazing at that thing. Whereas our zone of genius is innate. Like, the thing pours through you effortlessly. And I think about you a lot with this, Terri, because I feel like you have really engineered your business around. Around your genius because you have four kids and you don't have as much time. And so you have to be in your genius to maximize. And it's, I think, the smartest thing. So when we stand in our genius, what we contribute far outpaces our peers and, you know, perceived competition because it's innate for us, and so we can spend a lot more time there. The work is much more expansive. It can go a lot further. So when we build our business around it, not only is it a differentiator, but it's also transformative because it's that thing that's really unique and special to us. And like you, Terry, it's like you spend a lot less time there because it's just, you know, you're synthesizing the information there like nobody else can. And it's just super advantageous to build our business that way versus laboring in spaces that aren't as effortless for us. Like, if I built my business around a zone of competence, I would be spending so much more time there versus in my genius.

Yeah, I dig that. And I think maybe when you're first starting your business, you're in your zone of excellence and genius because you have a smaller team, but as you start scaling, then, yeah, you have to outsource that stuff. And it could be to an executive assistant, it could be to freelancer, whatever it is. But I made a post about this the other day on LinkedIn. Like, people say often, oh, don't invest in more help until you're making at least $10,000 a month. And I'm like, well, the reason why you're not making more is because you're spending time doing things that are not in your zone of genius or not in the best interest of your business or someone else could be doing. You should be forming partnerships, coming up with strategy, not necessarily like updating a website, which is very important, but someone else can do that, and they can't necessarily do what you're doing in regards to the strategy. So that's where I hear that scarcity mindset, or even investing in a virtual assistant. Right? So I have an amazing executive assistant. She's on the line right now and just a lifesaver. Especially this week, with my whole family having Covid outside looking in, you can't tell anything is going wrong unless you see me complaining about on Instagram because everything's still running in the background because of Megan. So you need that type of help too. And again, that's just you saying, here's My zone of genius. I have to outsource the other stuff otherwise I can't even spend as much time there as I need to to really grow and meet that upper limit that we talked about earlier.

Right. It is your highest yield place and it is where you can charge the most money because you are off the charts genius.

There we go. So listen, I want to start to wrap things up here. Just unpack again how you can help people because I always learn a lot from talking to you and it's beneficial. I feel like I'm getting like free consulting right now. So, so thank you for that. But just if you can like bullet point, what are a few ways that you can help people if they want to connect with you, if they want.

To learn more about Piaz? I feel the same way about you, Terry. I feel like you always provide such an amazing experience and I always learn something amazing. So thank you. So the way that I work with people is one on one small group and I also have a digital course. And so if you're interested in one on one coaching to either transform your business or your career, hop on over to my website and then you'll see a space where you, you can book a consult and then you'll get to see me in action and understand how I actually go through a sales conversation. So that'd be really fun. And then if you're interested in small group coaching, it's the same way. And then I actually just launched a brand new digital course literally last night on all of the information that I talked about today and it's self paced. So if you didn't want to work with me but you wanted your own self guided option that is available for you too.

Awesome. Cool. Well thank you for that. I'm sure a lot of you are going to check that out. It's aminaltai.com we see that in the chat window here. Also follow her on LinkedIn. LinkedIn, follow her on Instagram. You learn a lot from her. She, you put out a lot of great content consistently and I wish I could keep up with your videos, with your, your production of it because for me it's like I, I, I think I have the time I have to dedicate it better, more. But yeah, you crush it with your videos. It's always very well thought out, very well presented and I appreciate it.

Oh, right back at you.

Cool. All right everyone, thanks for joining. I appreciate your time. Next week we are going to be talking about how you can actually find an executive assistant, how to best leverage one how to best communicate and how you can scale your business as a result of getting one. So please do join us next week right now. See you next time.

Great to be with you all.