Ashley Stahl Interview: How to Get on Stage and Monetize Your Story

So my work rides on the message of don't do what you love, do what you are. And a lot of people, they might write a talk and have good, actionable tips, but do they have a message? Do they have something that they believe that is clear and coming through in their work, no matter what their pivots or changes have been?

Did you know that one keynote talk can unlock limitless opportunities for your brand and business? On today's show, Ashley Stahl will teach you how to develop and share your compelling story. This is the launch your business podcast because we know starting a business is challenging, but it doesn't have to be confusing. Each week we'll give you the tactical advice and the necessary tools to scale your business without feeling burnt out. I'm Terry Rice, business development consultant and staff writer here at Entrepreneur Magazine. Let's dive in. Hey, before we officially start today's show, I want to let you know how.

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Multiply your revenue potential and spend less time working with premium price services. And as a listener, you'll save $50 by using the promo code. Launch space is limited and you can learn more by visiting TerryRice Co convert. That's TerryRice Co convert. And now let's hop into the show. I took a public speaking class in college and it changed my entire perspective on delivering content to a live audience. I straight up hated the class. The instructor scrutinized everything. What we did with our hands, our facial expressions, even how or if we laughed while on stage. And I was only 20 at the time, but I still knew there was more to being a public speaker than following some just ridiculous rules the instructor laid out for us. Plus, honestly, he wasn't even that good of an instructor, so why should I follow his lead? So when it was time to do my final presentation, I just winged it. And I told a story about how I managed to go out three nights in a row and only spent $20. And during that story, I gave tips on how other students could do the same. The class loved it, the teacher gave me a C. But that's when I realized I wasn't concerned with being a great communicator. Not by the standard definition at least. I was more focused on being a great connector by sharing my experiences with my audience and providing guidance along the way. And if you want to learn more about what I speak about, just go to TerryRice Co speaking. And here's something I learned later in life. People give you opportunities because they feel connected to you. As an entrepreneur, these opportunities can be life changing. I once got paid $1,500 to deliver a keynote, but as a result of that keynote, I met one of my future business partners. He was in the crowd and. And that partnership brought in $300,000 in just 18 months. So how can you deliver a keynote that unlocks valuable opportunities for your business? That's a good question, and Ashley Stahl has the answer. Ashley is, get this. A counterterrorism professional turned professional coach, spokesperson, and author of the bestselling book U Turn. Get Unstuck. Discover your Direction. Design youn Dream career. Through her two viral TEDx speeches, her online courses, her email list, and her show the U Turn podcast, she's been able to support clients in 31 countries in discovering their best career path and upgrading their confidence. She maintains a monthly career column in Forbes, and her work has also been featured in outlets such as the Wall Street Journal, cbs, Self, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, and more. We're going to talk about why you should push past your competencies and pursue your zone of genius in your work. How to create a viral TED Talk that lands clients in valuable partnerships, and how to dig in and find your compelling story, even if you don't think you have one. Let's hop into it right now.

Ashley, how are you today?

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so good. I'm excited to talk to you.

I am too.

And let's just start with your background because we've never had anyone on the show who was a former counterterrorism expert. So do you mind sharing your path from there to where you're at now?

Yeah, I mean, one of the things I learned working in counterterrorism is the more you know, the less you know. So I feel like I'm not an expert expert at anything from that whole era. But I worked at the Pentagon in my early 20s and I devoted my entire college year experience to getting fluent in different languages. So to this day, I'm still bilingual in French and English, obviously, but I spoke Arabic, I learned dari. I did everything to prepare myself for that career. I think it's interesting, a lot of people, you know, they don't necessarily know what they want to do or maybe they think they know what they want to do. And there are these moments in their life that they make a decision. Like, for example, I was living in France and I'll never forget there was this man, this woman in an alleyway, and the man hit his wife across the face in the middle of daylight. She had a baby. And I remember I was studying politics at the time I saw this happen. And I locked eyes with this woman. It was just us. It was like pouring rain. It was in the west coast of France, in this town called Nantes, which is like the Seattle of France. And I just saw her. And when we locked eyes, I remember thinking, like, I want to save her, I want to help her. But instead I kind of made a career decision about her. You know, like I told myself I want to protect her. And the highest way I knew how to do that was like, I'm going to join the government and be like the mama bear inside of me at the highest level. So. So I think that's so interesting looking back, because I think a lot of people do this where they have these high impact moments, memories, conversations, experiences, and then they think to themselves, well, you know, I guess I'll build a career or make a decision off of this. When really it was just a high impact experience to sit with and not necessarily something to inform your career path.

Let's dig into that because what I found is a lot of people come to me saying, terry, I'm an entrepreneur. I want you to help me build my personal brand, which I know we're going to get into.

Yeah.

But often they're not even clear why they want to have the job they have. Like, why do they even have this business? So I have them go through exercises where we design the vision for their life, their personal philosophy and other things like that. But how can we decide if something is a moment of significance or a movement towards this new phase in their life? Like, how do we get that clarity?

Yeah, like a real breadcrumb. Yeah, that's huge. Well, first of all, there's a few distinctions to share. Number one is the difference between being a happy consumer of something and a successful producer of that thing. So I love consuming fashion, but I'm not meant to be a fashion designer. I don't have the skillset. So I think this conversation comes back to Zone of Genius. So anyone's listening. Sometimes we don't know what our core skill set is. In my book U Turn, it's Y O U. I came up with this idea of making a U turn, coming home to yourself instead of just turning around like a pendulum swinging the opposite way. When we feel like we made a mess or we're not in the right, a Y O U turn, which is much More honest. And in my book, I talk about this thing called turn signals. It's like these little whispers that come up in our mind that are kind of rerouting us whether we decide to listen to them or not. So the first thing is kind of like, what do you like consuming? But does that have anything to do with your skill set and what you really, truly can successfully produce? There's too many people making art of their work, or work of their art, I should say, when really their art is supposed to just be their art, their interest is just supposed to be their interest. You know, like purpose moves. Like, we are evolving organisms. Our skin cells die every seven years, we have new ones. So it's like we are growing living organisms that change. So as far as knowing your core skillset goes, the message of my book and my work and my podcast, everything I do, which I'm so excited to have you on my podcast, is, don't do what you love, do what you are. And when we really take a look at who are we, I encourage everyone listening to honor their intuition, but also get some feedback. People are sometimes too far on one way or the other. They're not taking feedback or they're taking too much feedback. So I think there's a real balance there. But asking people, and this is a research backed question, where have you seen me at my best? And if you can ask colleagues, friends, even your parents, people who you think have a good sense of you, or even more specifically, where have you seen me at my best professionally, people are going to be able to give you feedback on how they've seen you show up and where they've seen you be effective. Then you get to check in with your own intuition and say, is this somewhere that I really shine? And I feel like there's a few lily pads in anybody's career. The first one is kind of like, you know, I'm fine. Like, I wish that I knew what I wanted to do, but I'm not willing to go figure it out because it feels inconvenient. It's very inconvenient to have to like, figure something out, especially in your career if you've been working for years in one thing. So a lot of people hang out on that first lily pad. I have no judgment. If it's working for you, great. I try to get people to the second lily pad, which is I know my zone of genius. And when you know your zone of genius, like, I'm sure you have a team Terri. Like, you can tell when somebody on your team is working on their zone of genius. Like, it's just obvious, like, when people are in their talents and when somebody is in their zone of genius, it's kind of rare, unfortunately, but because people don't all know themselves, you know, so when somebody's doing that, the world becomes a game of yes or no. It becomes a game of opportunities. You can say yes to things that come your way or no to things that come your way. And the thing about opportunities that's so slippery is that sometimes they're a high form of distraction, you know, like, just as abundant as they are, they're distracting. So I think it's about saying yes or no to the right things. And the third lily pad, I think, can only happen once you found your zone of genius. And that's, like, true Dharma. You know, like, when I wrote my book, I felt a sense of that. When I wrote my TED Talk that I recently gave, I felt that, and I knew it would go, you know, viral. And nobody watched it for the first six months, and then it went super viral. So it's like really feeling within yourself, like your. Your truest sense of magic. And I think there's a cost of admission, and it's really being experimental, it's being in trial or error and being willing to do that.

A few things come up, right? So you're saying, hey, ask other people. When am I at my best? And I know some people are listening. They're like, that sounds like a good idea, But I feel uncomfortable doing that because of, like, the feedback I might get or just I feel uncomfortable putting myself out there. I would argue I would feel much more uncomfortable launching a business that I'm not sure about, spending all that time and money, as opposed to asking 10 people in your network, hey, where do I show up? Is my best. So if you're struggling with that, realize it's a lot easier than actually launching a business that you're unsure about.

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Let'S go deeper on TED Talks and personal branding in general, because I know people are listening. Like, wait, she wrote 40 TED talks? Like, how? How can I do this? So for someone listening, if they were to approach you saying, hey, I want to write a TED Talk, I mean, what is that process like for you? How do you help people write their TED Talks?

Yeah, well, so, I mean, it's across the board. Some people, like I mentioned, they don't want to really write it. So I'll just talk to them for a couple hours and go off into the wind. Writing their talk delivery is just as important as the words you're saying, right? And you know that as a speaker, like, how you deliver something and helping people absorb what you're saying is huge. So I also really help them with preparing. But there's a couple things. Number one, remember, for everyone, going viral is simple. Like, maybe it's not easy, but it's simple. You simply write the best talk of your life, you know, like these platforms. When it comes to your personal brand, I kind of see the Internet like a bunch of islands. And I spend one to two years on every single island. Like, I have a Forbes column, that's an island. I have a podcast, you know, that's an island. I have my book, that's an island. I have my TED Talk, that's an island. So I think as business owners, it's really important that we ask ourselves, like, what is our ideal brand look like and what islands are really going to move the needle? And how do we spend one, maybe even two years on each island, really building it up. And we don't forget it and leave it behind, but we leave it on a slow simmer after we've established ourselves there. So with ted, it was an island that I realized, like, this has helped my career more than any single thing in my personal brand. Because you know, where else can you write a 10 minute talk and have 40 million people subscribed to see it and get notified that it exists? That gives you such a strong shot in the dark? And what's so cool about it is that you don't need to be famous, you don't need to be anything. You can just have a story. It's a democracy of ideas. And so I think the first thing is just realizing when it comes to being viral, write the best talk of your life, give it the time on your calendar. Don't see this as just something you're going to rush through. Realize that the delivery is probably something you want to spend at least two to three months on your calendar really nailing. I recommend people memorize it because, you know, you don't want to be searching for your words when you're standing there on that red dot. And I'd be curious how your speaking works, Terry, because for me, I don't know, I think about plays like Hamilton. Why do people pay so much for tickets to Hamilton? Well, because what they get on Wednesday is what they're going to get on Thursday is what they're going to get on Friday. It's consistent, consistent. It's consistent excellence. And I think that's what you can do when you prepare adequately. So as far as virality goes, titles matter in a big way. You know, maybe do some research on what are the most popular talks that you've seen come out in the past six months. And you could also look at the, you know, the rankings. There's two different approaches with titles that I take. One is the obvious approach, like my most recent TED talk that went viral in the top 100 is how to figure out what you really want. That one, it's, it's straightforward. People are going to Google. How do I know what I really want? The other one is more like the loophole, the open loop for the monkey mind. Right. Like the. Or is it the lizard brain? Like the secret to a lasting marriage. Yeah, pick an animal. The secret to a lasting marriage. The reason why you're not getting promoted at work. It's like the open loop that gets people curious. So those are a couple things. Another thing is your opener. So I come from Obama administration with my days in counterterrorism at the Pentagon. I learned from his speechwriters the importance of catching attention right away. So if you picture a TEDx event or just people on their computer screen, you know, we got our tabs open quite literally and figuratively. We've got Our emails. You know, we have so many things distracting us. So if you can use language that wakes people up right away, gets their attention right away. Here's the thing about that. So my first TED Talk I gave years ago, which I'd never spoken on a stage of my life, for that one, which was terrifying. This is like, 12 years ago. The first words of my talk are, spying the Pentagon, counterterrorism. And I say, this was my career path when I was 22. It catches attention. The most recent TED Talk, I give a story about my dad in the kitchen getting a phone call from someone who said, they kidnapped me. So you don't. It's like, I hate to say we live in a world of clickbait. I'm not encouraging people to do that. But if you can look back in the history of your life and pick the most powerful story that you know, know this. Your opening story doesn't necessarily have to directly have anything to do with your talking points or with your message. The goal is like, get them in, get their attention. And your job is to draw a bridge between the opening story and. And your talking points. So those are just a couple starting thoughts on TED Talks. I could go on forever.

Obviously, that was more than a couple. And I'm glad this is being recorded because for anyone listening, this is a masterclass on how to communicate, right? How to land a TED Talk, any kind of keynote. And if you follow these prompts, you will be successful. And I'll say this. I like Obama, but he's kind of boring. The way he talks, he's very singular in monotone. So for him to learn how to capture attention from these speechwriters that you know as well, you can tell that, you know, it's working clearly. But he's not, like, the most, like, animated guy, naturally. So I think that's great. Let's. Let's dig in there. Because I feel like some people listening are like, well, I don't have anything magical to say. They feel like they don't have a story. I'm going to start with an example just from my consulting work, and then I want to see if you can share an example of one of the unique stories you helped someone write recently. Yeah, but on my end, I help people create online courses. Right? Could be about business, could be about math, whatever it is. This one woman I talked to wanted to create an online course about creating urban chicken coops.

Oh, my gosh, I love that.

Urban chicken coops. And I was like, huh? And I was like, that's Actually kind of genius because it's so niche. There probably aren't a lot of courses about that, but it might spark interest from people who never considered it and also help people that were. And as a result, she did very well. So people right now might be thinking.

I don't have a story to tell.

Look, this woman's making bank off urban chicken coops. So can you share some of the stories that you've helped people write that maybe seem like a. An idea that seemed a little outlandish at first, but. But did land.

Okay, So I didn't coach this woman in my private practice, but I met a woman who made million dollars a year off of Scottish terrier figurines. Like little tchotchkes that were in, like on people's decor. And I just remember, like, if this woman can make seven figures off a bunch of Scottish terrier toys, like, I'm. We're good, you know. But going back to your question, you know, here's what's interesting is a lot of the times the speech that I'm writing has nothing to do with the career that they have, because the bar for Ted is inspiration. My goal is how do I help someone write the most inspiring legacy of a magical talk they've ever written that just gets shared and goes viral and means so much to them? But I would say, you know, I've had one woman come in. I'll never forget her. She was a doctor. She didn't realize how much admin was involved in being a doctor. So half of her time was with patients, which she loved, but the other half was like filling out paperwork, which she hated. And she couldn't hire somebody to do it. Cause it was like doctor medical notes. So she couldn't do it anymore. She was like, no matter how much I love seeing patients, like, I can't. I can't be behind a desk doing these notes anymore. So we ended up turning her into. She told me she loved fashion, but obviously I thought about the consumer versus producer thing. But she actually had a core skill set. So I listed in my book the 10. One of them is beauty. And the core skill set of beauty is when people can make art of the world around them. Whether it's musicians, interior designers, it's the artists. And she really had a gift for putting things together. Her whole home, her fashion. So she started offering doctor influencers fashion styling. And it was one of the coolest things I've ever seen. And last I heard from her, she was at Paris Fashion Week. And she has a total Established business. And so, you know, I know that she is working on a TED Talk now, and she's probably going to have me come in later in the game to just finalize it with her, which is kind of a rare thing I don't usually do, but it's really cool to see people. I've seen people make pivots all day long, but when it comes to ted, I don't really look at that. I more look at, like, what are your life experiences and. And which experience has stuck with you the most as a story? So that's the first thing for the opener. And then the second thing I look at is what are some of the biggest lessons you've learned? What are the biggest awarenesses you've learned? So I try to just really pull out what's. And also not forgetting that you need to have a message. So my work rides on the message of don't do what you love, do what you are. And a lot of people, they might write a talk and have good, actionable tips, but do they have a message? Do they have something that they believe that is clear and coming through in their work, no matter what their pivots.

Or changes have been to your point about letting the work come through you and talking about, like, you know, what you are, I feel like that's the difference between personal branding and character branding. Because personal branding, yes, you know, it's important. It's a thing, but it can be manufactured. But your character, yeah, that's actually, you know, how you feel and how you. The actions you take as well. So I think going forward, that's gonna be even more important than personal branding. And the advice you're giving is critical to anyone who wants to thrive in an era where everyone's trying to build a personal brand. You're saying, okay, cool, let's start there. Yes. But really, what lights you up, you know, what are your core values?

Yeah. Sometimes people are on the right path. They're just in the wrong office or they're in the wrong, you know, business arrangement, but the business idea they have is great. So it's like, there's a difference between what you're doing and how you're doing it. And I love what you said about character, because I do think at its worst, personal branding is delusional. Like, I think about, like, Anna Delvey and that whole, like, world of, like, getting followers, or I think of the Tinder swindler and, like, he gets followers. That the amount of digital marketers, I'm sure you know this Terry that like rent a Lamborghini for their ads. It's like this illusion. So at its worst, that's personal branding. I think at its best, it's truly honoring what you have to say. Making an impact.

Well, Ashley, this has been amazing.

I'm going to ask you two questions as we're closing out here. One's going to be easy, the other one's going to be hard. So I'll give you the easy one first. First question is where can we learn more about you? If you don't mind giving a rundown of your books and your programs available, that would be great. And on the other end of that question is this. What is one lesson about entrepreneurship that you wish you learned sooner?

So where can you find me? Everything's@ashleystahl.com A S H L E Y S T A H L. You could find my book on there, my podcast on there, private coaching, my online courses on clarity, job hunt, business, all the things as far as what is a lesson that I wish I learned about entrepreneurship. You know, I think a lot of people talk a lot about starting and monetizing and not enough about sustaining. And I think as it relates to all my self discovery content that I write about in my book of like figuring out who you are and channeling that into your career, I think knowing who you are and building a vision that is sustainable is so important and there's so much hustle culture around getting that first bite of success. And so I would say anyone listening, like entrepreneurship is a marathon. It's not a sprint build slowly and intentionally. It's not about doing a failure to launch and not putting your soul into it. But it is about just like really being mindful and working hard and not being afraid to do the free work. Like I write, you know, Forbes blog posts forever and the pay is definitely not a motivator. You know, like it's not going to pay my bills. So I put in that time. I spent about a year and a half building my brand before I really even pursued getting clients. So I would recommend people patience and consistency and having a vision that's sustainable. And I wish that I knew how important that was when I started.

It's a great lesson. Thanks Ashley. I appreciate it.

Thank you.

And that's our show for today. Again, you can learn more from ashley by visiting ashleystall.com I'll spell that for you. It's a S H L E Y S t a h l.com and you can follow her on Instagram as well at Ashleystahl thanks again for listening and I'll catch up with you next time. Apply what you've learned on today's show. You'll find the show notes and more resources at Terryrice co podcast. Again, that's TerryRice Co podcast, and the best way to support this podcast is by subscribing, telling a friend, and leaving a review. Also, you can get more tips by following me on Instagram @TerryRice or follow me on LinkedIn. This episode was produced by Josh Wilcox of Brooklyn Podcasting Studio and edited by Dan Lardy. Special thanks to my wife, Dominique, for keeping our kids relatively quiet as I recorded. Thanks again for listening. I'll see you next time.

Sam.