Confronting Your Childhood to Chart Your Future With Antonio Neves

Antonio, how's it going?

It's going well, man. Thank you for having me. It's good to be here.

It is, but there's a truck going by, so I'm gonna say it again. Antonio, how's it going?

It's going good, man. It's good to be here.

I just realized we have not actually talked in person before, or at least in real time. I found you on LinkedIn, I think my wife might have, actually, and we connected there, and we've been talking through WhatsApp, but we've never talked in real time. So I'm glad to have you here today.

Yeah, it's pretty fascinating how you can meet people on the Internet on places like LinkedIn. We've exchanged voice notes together, of course. We've supported each other on LinkedIn, and it's wild. That's why I love it so much. I can't say, like, when I think about Instagram, Twitter, other platforms, Facebook, that that's happened, but LinkedIn has been a place where that's happened. I also came across your work early on from our mutual friend Patrice Pulitzer. And I've been blown away by what you do, and I'm so glad I found you and your work, man.

Yeah, I'm a huge fan of yours, too. And like I said, my wife is as well, so. So, yeah, we got that connection there. But let's first start by talking about who you are and what you do.

Yeah. So if you go to the Internet, I mean, the Internet will tell you that I'm a speaker, so I'm speaking over 40 years, 40 times a year, across the globe. Speaking on leadership, workplace engagement, morale. I write books. Most recently, I wrote Stop Living on Autopilot, which has done extremely well, not just domestically, but across the globe as well. Multiple foreign language editions. And I coach people, and I coach people who are in the. In between. Those people are determining, like, what their next steps are, who are ready to begin a next chapter and have a decision to make. These typically are professional men and women somewhere between 35 and 54, that have reached kind of impasse, and they feel stuck, and they've been figuring things out for a long time. So I've been that guy that supports those folks. But that's what the Internet works will tell you. But I like to say the Internet won't tell you that I'm Gigi's husband, and I'm August and Harper's dad, and those are the things that are most important to me.

Yeah. So how are things going overall? Like, if you ran into a friend from high school, and they said, hey, Antonio, how are you doing? What would you say?

That's a really good question, man. You know, I think one of my greatest fears, and I write about this and stop living in autopilot, is that exact scenario is that you bump into a friend in the airport or when you go back home to visit family or something, and they see you, and you can tell by the look in their eyes, they're a bit disappointed. They're like, yo, what happened?

You.

You were that dude. You were gonna go do that. You were. There wasn't nothing you were going to accomplish. And they look at you, and you can see the hurt in their eyes, but they don't say anything. That's always been a fear of mine, because I think you always, always sought all the external validation, wanting to make others happy. To answer the question today, if I bumped into that friend back home or somewhere, someone that knew me from another period of my life, I would say that things are good. If you look at the. The external markers of success professionally, the work that I'm doing, the income that I'm doing, if you look at the bank accounts in the house and all those kind of things, I think where the challenges come is that in the midst of those external things, you're also managing just life, raising young kids and school and doing homework, having a marriage that you want to work hard to make thrive. So there are ebbs and flows to all of it. It's funny. I'm here in my mid-40s right now, and physically, I've had, like, a decent amount of physical setbacks over the course of the last year that I'm not used to as a former college athlete. So that's kind of. Kind of. I've struggled with those things. But I'd say overall, if I was talking to that friend, like, hey, I'm doing good, and. And I'm feeling some aches and bruises a little bit on this journey.

Yeah. I mean, I'm mid-40s as well, so. So I'm there with you. But like you, I'd say things are going well at a macro level as well right now. But we both had some challenges in our. In our lives and our careers, and I. And I talk about this a lot. I mean, I. I started my business eight years ago, and since then, I've lost my father, I lost my brother, I lost my son, I lost my grandfather. And for me, sometimes I'm like, I think that alone is an accomplishment to still being here and still Being functional. And that's why I love this show, because we see people like you on LinkedIn. It's like you're crushing it. You're on stage all the time talking to these high profile organizations and you have this book, which I bought, by the way, and I'm enjoying, but we don't always see, like, what happened to make you become the Antonio that you are now. So on this show, what we like to do is dive into some really dark parts of your past and just understand what was going through your head, the experiences you had and how you pushed through it. Because I know there's someone listening right now who will gain, maybe not tactic level guidance on how to resolve their challenges, but at least they'll be inspired. Like, hey, there is a way out and I can grow up to be Antonio one day. So, Antonio, let's zoom in, man. What, What? Do you feel comfortable sharing a challenging time about your personal or professional life?

Yeah. Even before I share about that, I just want to say that you probably know this as well, is that if you're in the public light in some regard, or if you're a coach, people don't ask you how you're doing, right? Because you're the guy, you're the woman that lights other people up. They see the positive words that come from your fingertips into a LinkedIn post. They see, they read your book, they see these things that you, they see you on stages lighting up thousands or hundreds. So a lot of people forget to ask that person who lights everybody else up how they're doing. So this is just a reminder for those folks out there. There's someone in your life that's always smiling, that's always coaching, that's always lighting people up. I just want you to think about that person. And after you listen to this episode, check in on them and ask them how they're doing. You asking me that right now, Terry, was. I haven't been asked that in a while, man. And the truth is I probably stiff arm it because I'm like, I can't complain. I got a. I got business to handle, mouths to feed, and all those kind of things. So I want to acknowledge you for being willing to ask things that most people don't ask. There's a couple of things that I can share about challenging times in my life and I can talk about stop living on autopilot, and I talk about the challenging periods of my life in that book, but something I've never shared publicly. And I, I only feel comfortable to share this based on how you've opened this conversation is something I feel like I'm, I've. I've overcome and it's been a really long journey. Is still dealing with some challenges from childhood, man. Like, again, the Internet paints this beautiful picture of how our lives look. But the Internet won't tell you that between my mother and father are six divorces. Not with each other, but they both were divorced three separate times. So I, I didn't know what it was like to live in a household or see what a working relationship looks like. You know, before I graduated from high school, man, I moved nearly 15 times in this small town in Michigan. You know, part of that spell was living in shelters for, for battered and abused women and children. And I think if there's a specific moment, again, I have never said this publicly that has stayed with me for a long time that I feel like I'm just getting over the hump with. It is unfortunately, my mother and father had an abusive relationship and alcoholism. Different things were involved. Lost my father last year and unfortunately there was one of my earliest memories, man, is standing in my kitchen in this white house. And outside of the house, like six or seven years old outside of the house you see flashing lights from a police car and the neighbors are standing in their yards and it's dark out. And I'm inside this house in the kitchen and this couch is just beer cans strewn everywhere, broken glass on the floor. It's just a wreck. My mom and sister have been gone for a while because my mom basically had to escape and left me, just my brother and I, with my dad. And in that kitchen was all of us along with two police officers. And essentially they asked me as a seven year old boy or six year old boy, who do you want to go with? Do you want to go with your mom or do you want to go with your dad? And even from that, like, as a kid, I'm like, yo, you shouldn't be asking this six year old boy, who's he going to go with? And I'd already seen my brother and my sister go with my mom. So I was like, I want to be with both of y'. All. But they made me pick and I chose my mom or my brother and sister were. And I still recall Terry seeing the pain on my dad's eyes when I made that decision. They were bloodshot red and he's wearing this, you know, white undershirt, the V neck that you probably can remember from back in the day. I remember just seeing that pain in his eyes. And I think that was a moment that has stuck with me, the most visceral moment of my life forever. And it's taken me, I want to say, over 40 years, my man, to really heal from that moment. Because who you see today is a byproduct of what that kid went through, that abandonment. I saw external achievement. You know, I'm the guy that can hide in plain sight. I'm the guy that can talk to absolutely anybody. And you can realize after having a 30 minute conversation with me, you say, man, that guy's fascinating, but holy shit, smokes. I didn't learn one thing about him. He made it all about me. So it's fascinating how that was such a painful moment in my life. But it was the genesis of who I am today as a coach, who I was as a journalist, who I was in my TV career, who I am on stages and all of that was that boy who struggled from abandonment, who just wanted to be loved and who wanted validation. And he sought it in different modes. And I saw it in tv, initially thought it in my speaking career. And I feel like now, man, I'm just getting over that hump of accepting, looking back on that boy, loving him and appreciating him. And I'm not sure if that's what you're expecting for that answer. I've never shared that, but that's what comes to mind with that question, man.

Thank you for that, for sharing that. And without prying, I want to, I want to double click on that to an extent because you said you felt a sense of abandonment. Did you feel abandoned or do you feel like your father felt abandoned?

Both, man, both. One, I felt abandoned because my mom had to leave my brother and I for an extended period. She had to get out for her safety and her well being. And I still remember staring, standing at the back door and this is the early 80s, looking at the cars turning down the street at night and I was looking for the shape of her headlights. I'm not sure if you remember when you were a kid, you knew that the shape of your parents headlights in the car looked like. And she had to go. And I didn't know if she was coming back, you know, to come get us. And she had to come back with police to get us to show you, you know, how serious the situation was. So it was dealing with my abandonment. But heck, yeah, man, I've always felt that I let my dad down in that moment, tmi. But in that situation, I was the only biological son of my father. So my I have three siblings. We all have different. We all have different dads. So I definitely felt like I was. I didn't really know that at that age, but I felt like I was definitely letting him down. And I'll tell you, that experience has opened up so much for me because I used to look at it, Terry. Maybe I'm fast forwarding a little bit too much so we can double click on it or not. I used to look at that situation, Terry, just under the lens, the guise of that little boy. But through the work that I've done, this is some recent stuff as well. Man, I've started to look at it so different. I look at it from a mom's. My mom's lens. I'm like, wow, what led to my mom putting herself in a situation like that? How did that happen? Then? I can double click on that and unpack her background a little bit and like, oh, things make a lot of sense as I look at her, her upbringing, her experience. And, you know, you look at your mom a lot different when you realize that they had a life before you came on this planet. Things happen far beyond before you showed up. Then it's like, man, what led to my dad being an alcoholic at that time and being an abusive person? Like, and you, you. So you stop thinking about you. You start thinking about these other people and maybe not excusing malicious and poor behavior and never that, but you're like, you see them as a human in a different way. You never did before. And I've just done that in recent months, been able to separate myself from that. And look at them now. Maybe having kids plays a role in that now as well as I'm trying to be the best. The best dad, best husband I can be. And I'm still learning how to do that. So I think that's where the abandonment, like, the source came from. But, yeah, for me and for my pops.

I wonder how that shows up to this day. And I'll share online. My parents got divorced when I was like, maybe third or fourth grade. And I. My dad was an alcoholic, too. He quit, like 20 years before he. Before he died. When I was a kid, he was. He was an alcoholic. And I didn't. I didn't know that it was weird to be driving around with your dad while he's drinking like a 22 of like, like, like, like old English or something. I thought everyone, everyone's dad did that. I'm like, all right, this is how you drive. But after they got divorced, there were. He was supposed to pick me up every weekend. So I go to his place. And I remember from my bedroom window, I could look out the window through this field, and there was another set of houses beyond that field. I could see a sliver of his car go between the houses when he was coming. Like, okay, I see dad coming. Like, yeah, I just saw, like, a little bit of his car. And there were times when he just didn't come. And I would be staring out that window for hours, hours just waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting for my dad to come. And he know he didn't do it. And I think, how's that manifest to this day? How's it show up to this day? I hate having my kids wait for me. I freaking hate it. I hate it. I, like, I'll get there early. I just don't like having that. I don't want them to ever have that feeling, is dad coming? Or. Or even just having to wait for me. So, you know, with therapy, it's like, everyone's like, go back to your childhood. And I'm like, oh, look, I'm an adult now. But if you don't go back to that stuff, sometimes that's why you can't move forward. But I would also say this, like, I can't explain, you know, why my mom was the way, you know, she is or why my dad was the way he is. But I think sometimes the reason why we don't get closure is because we're looking for closure. And there's a power in being able to move on and thinking to yourself, look, maybe here's why they did this thing. Maybe not. I don't know. All I know is I got to show up as the best version of myself today because people need me to be that person, including myself. So when you said that, it's. And that's why I love this show, because we have the space here for that. Not a safe space. It gets dangerous. But it's. I think that's what people need to tap into. It's like, what were the underlying causes of what happened, and how could I move forward even if I can't figure it out? Like, that's. That's. That's. It's a powerful revelation.

It's so powerful, man. Is. Well, we have a lot of parallels in our life, man. Bro. Like, my kids. I'm there early, like, to your point, saying, I don't want them to feel that. I don't want them to feel that. That worry, that angst. Like, they haven't felt that. And I wonder if I'm doing a disservice sometimes, like, be doing too much to get there, like five minutes, 10 minutes early. Because I know that feeling of football practice ends and nobody's there to pick you up like they're supposed to be. And friends like, hey, need a ride home? Like, no, I'm good, I'm okay. And you walk home or you figure it out. Or I know that feeling of you wake up in the morning, get ready to go to school and mom's isn't there, didn't come home last night. And you figure out quickly how am I going to eat lunch today at school. Or you get creative with, you know, what time those neighbors do dinner and you know, what time to show up. So what you're talking about, man, I understand all too well. And so what it created for me that abandonment was a strong sense of independence, a strong sense of discipline, a strong sense of doing the right thing that manifested to a fault as I got a little bit older, a lot of judgment came up. What came with that, by the way? As I got older. But it manifested in that guy showing up, the rule follower. And then I kind of pivoted in another direction later in my life. But I understand that all too well. Man.

As you're talking about not getting picked up after football practice, I'm recalling walking home as well. Man, walking home wearing cleats sucks. It sucks. You just got done with practice, you know, so you're tired as it is now you gotta walk on with freaking cleats. So I've been there before, and I was also a rule follower as a child because I just didn't want to get in trouble. I was like, let me just not rock the boat. You know, things are rocky as they are at times, and I hate it, feeling helpless, especially in regards to money because for whatever reason, my mom would make it challenging for me to get lunch money in the morning. And I'm like 11 years old. Like, I'm like, I just want my lunch money. Like, I know you have it. Can I please have it? And I had to like, do the sung on dance. But to your point, I found a way. I found a way out. I. There was this organization in my hometown where kids as young as 11 years old could post themselves as available for jobs, like odd jobs. So I would do landscaping, I would do painting. So I was like, I'll just pay for my own lunch. I'm 12 years old. I'll just pay for my own lunch. And then came up again like, we're going Back to school, shopping. You can't have that. You can't have that. I'm like, you know what, let's pay for my own clothes. I'm 13 now. Let's pay for my own clothes. Okay? Just like, you know what I mean? So now when I run into any kind of challenges, I'm like, well, let me just figure out how to solve this stuff myself. Like, I don't, I don't wait for somebody to save me. So as I'm hearing us talk, it's like all this pain, there's a purpose to it, but I'm just so concerned for the people that might go the other way and just have it drag them down as opposed to building them up. So I'm wondering where was that moment in your life where you're like, you know what, I'm not going to be the rule follower anymore. I want to do something different, you know, because you had a 9 to 5 job, you worked in corporate for a while and then eventually, you know, you left and you're doing your own thing now and doing beautiful work. So when did like the Antonio that we know today arrive and how.

Well, there were, there were clues early on, clues that I stiff armed, clues that I ignored. I mean, you see me now as this guy's mid-40s with dreadlocks. I'll still never forget the first time I saw Busta Rhymes on TV when he was in this group called Leaders of the New School. And I was like, what are those things on his head? I want dreadlocks like that. But I had to wait till I was 18 to get them. And I got him when I got to college, freshman year. But I remember growing up Terry, on a different side of town. There was the happy families that typically did not have the same skin complexion as I. They had this house and they had this thing called a garage and they had levels on their houses. And I lived in apartments most of my life and they went on vacations and they sat around the dinner table together. And the guy, the, the leader of that household, the man, the father, he wore this uniform that I saw he wore. There were khakis, like some like light brown pants, button down shirt, white button crips, white button down shirt, a tie, blue blazer, maybe with some anchors, gold button anchors on it. And he wore some loafers with the tassels on them. And I remember seeing that guy and I was just like, yo, that's what, that's what success looks like. That man is successful. He goes to some office, doesn't get his hands dirty in a factory like my dad does. And I remember that's what I was shooting for when I went to college. After my freshman year of college, I didn't know about much, so I went back home and worked at a factory. But after my sophomore year, I learned about this thing called internships. I got this internship in Detroit, Michigan. For me, Detroit might as well have been like Paris or Berlin. Like, it was big town for me. It was a big food company. I remember getting those khakis, Terry. I got that white button down, had my stepfather's blue blazer that was too big. A pair of maroon loafers with tassels on. I remember putting it on for that first day of the internship. And I looked in the mirror and I was thinking like, yeah, your boy made it. But even at that moment, Terry, something. Something felt wrong. I didn't recognize the guy in the mirror. And for some shape or form, I wore a uniform. For a good portion of my. Of my life, I wore a uniform in that. In my TV career, you know, as the reporter, correspondent, that kind of guys, if you saw me early in my speaking career, I wore the speaker's uniform. Crisp pair of jeans, button down, nice blazers, nice pair of shoes. But then at some point and again, this showed up periodically here and there. It got exhausting, man, even being a reporter. Like, I'm talking that reporter voice, welcome to this is News 12. The Bronx or whatever, like, had this reporter voice. And at some point, man, as I got older, it just got exhausting to keep doing it. And I'll never forget that when I decided as a speaker to no longer wear the uniform. And I'm like, yo, I'm going to show up. Like, I dress, I'm wearing a nice pair of jeans, a dope pair of kicks, a T shirt and a chore jacket like this. And I was so afraid. I'm like, the client's going to fire me. I'm looking too casual. But I found that the more that I was me, specifically, the more that I did not look like everyone else in the audience. And I did not conform. Oddly enough, the more people were drawn to me, the more they listened because I wasn't trying to fit in. I wasn't trying to conform. And I know all too well, man, how to conform. And I don't know about you, but I remember, like, being at parties and gathering, whether it's in early days in New York City to college and seeing people talk and connect and at corporate jobs, seeing people talk in the lunchroom break room. And I'm like, what are they talking about? How do y' all do this? Like, what do you guys know that I don't know? Because I don't parti. Just because I feel out of place, I don't. I don't feel like I belong. And then at some point, you realize, maybe you're not meant to. Maybe you're not meant to fit in, because I'm probably like, you're probably. We're similar. I'm guessing. I can walk into any room and be fine. I can connect with absolutely anybody. But for the longest time, I couldn't connect with my damn self, right? Because it was so much conforming. But the moment that comes up is when I decided to stop wearing the uniform on stage and like, yo, I'm just gonna be me. And even having dreadlocks now, man, like, that was a like, again, the stories in my head, I 7 always have a crisp fade, right? I want to be this. I want to be the safe brother. Didn't want to give you a reason not to hire me. And I'm like, at this point in life, man, I'm like, nah, man, I'm good. I just want to be me, and I want to raise my kids. That's. Maybe that's the big thing right there. Because I think a lot of these shifts happen when I had kids. I want to raise my kids to feel very confident in expressing who they are and showing up how they want to show up as well. So I'm not sure if I answered your question, but that came to mind.

You. I'm not sure either. I was just so interested in your answer that I forgot the question. But. But I think often we assume we need to portray ourselves in a certain way to be accepted, and you can do that. But it's freaking exhausting. And I think beyond that, people will tell, wait, there's something about that guy. They're holding something back. I don't know what it is. I can't trust him that much. So as a result of you not being open about some of the darker sides about your personality, you can't even let the light shine because people are just confused about who the hell you are. And before we were talking, I was trying to bring. I was bringing up this quote. Let me try to whip it up real quick. In regards to expressing yourself as a creative, as an individual. And the quote is, art is dangerous. It's one of the attractions. When it ceases to be dangerous, you don't want it. And I think about that, like, if you're not expressing who you are, there's no danger. It's a bland conversation, you know, it's like, oh, great. Vanilla, right? You know what I mean? So that is what makes you more interesting. The flaws, you know, the victories, all that stuff. But if you. Only if you. If you hide that part of yourself, you seem sketch and people don't have a reason to root for you.

So, yeah, I think people. And I think people picked up on that meat, picked up on that with me for a long time as well. I told a story, but I didn't tell the whole story. Like, the guy they would meet off camera or behind the scenes was very different. It was very raw, was very direct, was dark to a certain extent. And it's the guy you meet today. It's a guy. When you read Stop living on Autopilot, I think the reason why it's connected with so many people, funny enough, I think the reason why it's connected with so many people in Eastern Europe, in places like Serbia and Croatia, is because it's so direct and it's so raw. It's not a book that. It's not another pat on the back. It is, you know, it's a. It's a friend saying, yo, you got to tell the truth, having a real conversation with you. And that's what I think. That's where the conflict comes up for me sometimes, even as I share more of me, when I am more raw, when I am more direct, specifically on social media, I'm curious if you experience this, because sometimes, man, I'll see some stuff on social media that's getting mad love. And I'm like, this. I want to stop. I want to quit. Because I'm like, this is what y' all want. This. This soft, neutered. This is what you want. This basic ass axiom. This is what you want. And then, of course, I'm biased, but I look at what I'm sharing, but I feel like it's raw, real direct. And I'm like, what the people? I don't have a crazy, crazy following on LinkedIn, but that people tend to stiff arm. And I'm like, oh, is it because it's just not good? I have to ask myself question, is it because it's just not good? Or have I even not dared to go far enough? Maybe it's because I'm in. In the middle, because I'm blown away when I look at what gets a lot of love. And from my perspective, it seems very safe. It seems very Bland and. And I think if there's a direction I have to go that I want to go, it is to be more dangerous and maybe to piss more people off. One of the byproducts of my upbringing and the abandonment and experiences, and probably no wonder that I found myself in TV as a journalist, is that Terry, for the longest time I was unwilling to share an opinion like I would. I was a professional question asker, which I still am. But I also would get my point across by, well, some people say, right, or you share research. Or I'd ask questions that I'd lead the witness, but I would not directly outright say I disagree with. Here's what I think. I would kind of back into it. So not sure where I'm going with this, but I like that quote because I want to be more dangerous, not for anybody else, but. But so I can sleep better at night. If I'm gonna put this energy and attention into something and investment into it, it's. I'm doing myself a disservice by sharing just a watered down 65% version of me.

I also get annoyed when I see what I'll call dumb content, just for a lack of a better word, like getting all this attention. And two things come to mind. One is the people that are engaging with that consistently. Maybe I'm not talking to them because I'll take a step back. One of my buddies, his name is Justin Doyle, he helps executives at hedge funds primarily perform at a higher level. And he'll say things in his content like, I know you're sad. I know you're depressed. I know you're hiding. No one knows how sad you are. Let me help you. No one's gonna like that comment. No one's gonna comment on that post. But what happens is people will DM him afterwards and say, oh, thanks so much for saying this. You know, like, I just, I've been struggling so and so forth. So I think the reason why, when we have that darker content out there, sometimes that people don't want to engage with is because it's caught. It's forcing them to confront something inside of them. And they're like, man, that is not why I went on LinkedIn today. You know what I mean? So that could be the case. But it's still imperative for us to speak, for us to say these things, because I'm sure this happened to you before. Let me know. Has anyone ever reached out to you, wanting coaching, wanting to hire you? And they're like, I've been following you for so long. You're like, you've never commented on any of my posts ever, ever, ever. Like, I don't even know who you are. But you're talking about all this stuff, you know, about me, like there' halo effect we don't see that actually is impacting other people, including ourselves, just by expressing this.

Terry, when I go back, and by the way, the source of, for example, why I'm on LinkedIn, I'm not on LinkedIn for speaking engagements. Pretty much no one has ever said, I saw your post, I saw your video on LinkedIn, I want to hire you for a speaking engagement. That that's not my ecosystem for speaking. I'm on LinkedIn specifically for coaching. And it does pretty good with the book efforts as well. To your point, the coaching clients that I get, people that have joined my group coaching programs, my community, I will see them reach out to me. I get that email, get that dm. And to your point, they'll say, man, I really enjoyed your post on X, Y or Z. And I'll go back, I'm like, fool. You didn't even like, comment. Nothing on that post. But it's a reminder for me, it's a good reminder that there are lurkers and there are people. They're engaging. Maybe they're in the shadows, they're not going to hit like, they're not going to comment, but they're there. And I think it's one of the downfalls maybe of certain metrics when we look at the number of views, the number of impressions, the number of likes, all those are great. But does it correlate, frankly, to those DMs, does it correlate to money in your bank account? And I'm sure for a lot of people it doesn't. Maybe for some it does. But today I am more than okay if my post only gets 42 likes, or heck, 22 likes, but I get 2 dms or an email about it. And that's been a mindset shift of mine, as you know. You know, likes aren't cash, as people like to say all the time. And I believe in it. And still I'm not going to front when I see some of what I saw, some basic content, I'm like, what? But to your point, it's easier for someone to like that than like the other, you know, real, real stuff, if you will. Yeah.

And to your point about people seeing your content and then when they talk to you in real time, they understand you because they know your stories. That's why it's been beneficial for me to share some of my struggles. So I used to drink every day, sometimes every morning. My brother, unfortunately passed away about a month ago. Like, all these things people. People know about me, and when they meet me in real time, I don't have to hide that. I don't. I don't have to pretend like I'm somebody else. So, like, again, with my brother, most recently, people talk to me like, hey, before we get started, sorry to hear about your brother. My. Thank you. Now I don't pretend like nothing happened. You know what I mean? So there's a freedom and getting this content out there, even if you're not getting the interaction with it, because, first of all, people see it. Second of all, you get comfortable talking about it in real time with other people as well. So for anyone listening, like, I know it's hard when you're looking at me and Antonio, you're like, oh, yeah, you guys got a bunch of followers. You've been on stages, you know, who am I? You know, to express who I am and share these dark moments. And I would argue I would have grown a lot faster in my business if I've been more open about my experiences, my life, my ups and my downs sooner. I think it slowed down my growth, to be honest, because that stuff wasn't dangerous. What I was talking about before was just like, here's how you get more likes on LinkedIn. It wasn't like, here's on persisting through all these challenges, and if you want help with that, you know, follow along.

Listen, it's fascinating that you share that about your journey and your arc, because I can tell you in real time what it was like for me watching you. So before we probably started DMing and communicating with one another and commenting on each other's posts, I looked at you as, like, maybe intimidated is the wrong word, but I was like, damn, this guy got his stuff together. Like, man, he's like, he has these ridiculous biceps, has this amazing wife, has this beautiful family doing it in New York City. Oh, the content is next level. He works with these amazing companies, amazing partners. And I'm like, man, that's something I aspire to. Which I do. I'm, like, blown away by it. But it wasn't until. It wasn't until I saw you share something about losing your son, then you talked about losing your brother, that beyond all of the amazing accomplishments and different things, I saw you as a human, as a dude that I can relate to in a way that just the other posts wouldn't have done. And it was like, I think the saying, like, if you see somebody on a basketball court and some random dude shows up to your court and all of a sudden he starts balling, you look at each other and it's like, game recognized game. And they're like, oh, I see you, Terry. I said, oh, okay. I know this guy. We can talk, we can rap. And that's why I think it was so easy for us to get on, you know, WhatsApp and share some voice notes with one another with. As if I've known you my whole life. Why I'm willing to share what I'm sharing with you today that I've shared with no one else because of that. If I didn't see those other things, I probably wouldn't have shared that. And same thing. I think the reason why the book that I wrote has done so well is because I get real. I talk about the struggles my wife and I have had in our marriage. Early on, I talk about being. Struggling to connect with my kids. I talk about some of the. Just a variety of things that most people don't talk about. And people connect to that. When I. Let me tell you, when I'm on stage and I tell the story about once being a secret cigarette smoker, like this guy. I used to smoke, like, hide and smoke cigarettes. Do you know how many people come up to me, man, after speaking engagements? Like, yo, I used to be a secret cigarette smoker too. Or I cur. Or I currently am a list. Yeah. And it gives them per. There it is. It gives people permission. Permission to be human. And so I appreciate how you show up, man.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, back to the cigarette thing. I used to be a secret smoker as well. I quit when I met my wife. But. But let's go with that analogy about basketball because I think I'm gonna. I'm gonna go somewhere with it. Right. So you see someone show up on the court, you know, they look like they're gonna be great. That's me. I'm six four. I'm in shape. I can't play basketball. Like, I haven't played in so long. I'm, like, afraid to get on the court because I look like I would do well, but I would be horrible. But same thing with my social media content that you're seeing before. Like, oh, it looks like guys, everything got everything together. And like, yeah, now things are great. But there's like, this other stuff underneath that. When I revealed it, it's like, okay, you know, maybe he's not that great of a player or, you know, he's working on it or something like that. The analogy is like, I'm kind of losing it right now. But either way, to your point, like I say this all the time, people give you opportunities when they feel connected to you. And one way they feel connected is through the stories you tell. And unfortunately, or maybe disfortunately, sharing painful stories speeds up that process of making the connection. So your greatest asset might be the pain you've experienced and persisted through to show up now. And if you're not showing that, you're just doing all the other tactics everyone else is doing. Like, oh, here's features, benefits, you know, here's my personal brand. It's like, no, it's not your personal brand. It's your character brand. And that is not something that can easily be manufactured because it's based on your personal experiences they had in the past. So you got to share that stuff.

I agree with you 100%. I found in my experience, the things that typically we're most ashamed of, most embarrassed of, those things that you would like, be hesitant to say out loud, are those things, to your point, that will bring people closer to you. I learned early on in my coaching work and my coaching training that revealing creates intimacy. The more we reveal this is really great in relationships, the more we reveal it creates intimacy. I think we have to probably mention that not everybody deserves to hear your story. So there are some stories that are off limits that probably will not share online ever. But if you know me, I'll share them in some capacity. If you do coaching work and it there's a purpose for it, I will, I'll share it with you. But I think it's. We've also come to like, right. Pain porn. Whereas, you know, all these post people, you see the before and after photos and so people can be manipulative with that stuff as well. And you have to ask yourself, what's the purpose of my. My sharing this? Because again, I don't believe everyone deserves to hear all of Terry's story. You have to earn it, right? And I don't think everyone deserves to hear all of my story. Even before I share, before I share painful things on social, I have to ask myself, make sure I'm not doing it for likes. Make sure it's really serving a purpose that can help somebody. And you know, most times it does. But there's still a lot that I haven't shared. And even like going back to the painful stories I got this tattoo on my arm, man, that is. I got it when I was 18 years old, like, in the most delicate, feminine font of my name of Antonio. And I'll never forget when I, you know, I. I really just despise it. Got it young. And I remember going to a dermatologist in my early New York City days to go, seeing them out, getting it lasered off, and they said, hey, we can pretty much get rid of that up to like, you know, 99% visibility only. You'll be able to tell or somebody up really, really close. And I decided after a while not to get rid of it because I realized as much as I get teased about is that just in case I forget my name or if am I going to get my Social Security number next underneath it, I realized it's kind of part of my story. It's part of my path. So I decided to keep it. And I, and I, when I share that story, people connect to it as well. Because someone has a kind of their own kind of tattoo story. It may not be a tattoo, but something else that's part of their story that sometimes I'll invite folks to, to lean into, into more. And it does, to your point. It creates connection and shows character.

Antonio, thanks for sharing your tattoo story and everything else with us today. This has been great. I'm glad we're chatting in real time now. I want to keep the conversation going, but for now, I know other people want to catch up with you as well and learn more about you. So where's the. Where's the best place for him to do so?

Yeah, the headquarters for everything is the antonionevs.com theantonionebs.com and for the men that are listening, I have a newsletter that's specifically for married growth driven fathers, those men who want to get better. And that's manmorning.com manmorning.com awesome, Antonio.

Thanks, Chris. I appreciate it.

Thank you, man.

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