Don’t Wait for the Perfect Moment with John Meese

Hey, before we get started today, I just want to say thanks for tuning in and if you enjoy listening to the podcast, do me a favor and leave a review. First of all, I'd appreciate your feedback. And secondly, your input will allow us to connect with and inspire more people. And with that, let's get started.

I've just stopped looking for that magical day when all the conflict goes away. And I just try to in each day manage like, okay, like, what's the next right thing? To manage the competing needs of my business and my family. And also to recognize that, like, I've seen so many entrepreneurs who have prioritized their business and they've gotten all the financial wealth they wanted and their family is just like, falling apart and awful. And I don't want that.

This is Reclaim in Advance, a social impact project where we host vulnerable conversations with modern day high performers exploring the lowest points of their personal or professional life, how they recovered, and their life on the other side of hardship. My hope is that you'll realize you aren't the only one who goes through tough times and there is a way out. Through these conversations, you'll gain inspiration from the grit and honesty of our guests and you'll learn practical tools and science backed frameworks that empower you to take on new challenges, regardless of how difficult they may seem at first. So if you're ready to join in, let's get started. John Meese is an author, educator, and the founder of Sold Out Coach Club. He's written three books so far. Survive and Thrive, Always Be, Teaching and Serve to Sell. John describes his mission as helping individuals sell their smarts without losing their soul. Let's go ahead and get started. John, how's it going, man?

It's good. You just. Right before you hit record, you said, don't worry about being perfect. And I thought, man, that's like the story of my life. Like just. It's like me just that conversation. That's a constant internal conversation. But yeah, no, I'm. I'm good. I'm good today.

All right. Are you perfect? Because we're looking for perfection today?

No, man, no. It's a real problem. I am. I'm constantly aware of my shortcomings, so I. Are you familiar with the Enneagram at all by any chance?

I heard the term before.

Okay. I'm an Enneagram. One which is like a reformer or sometimes called a perfectionist. Although, you know, don't really like that term. But yeah, I'm very focused on like right and wrong always. And so Very aware of my own shortcomings. So that right before we go on live, you saying, like, hey, don't worry about being perfect. It's like, well, that's like a life struggle, you know, to try not to worry about being perfect.

Yeah, well, we're definitely gonna get into that today.

Yeah.

But right now I'm holding your book Serve to Sell, exactly how to sell premium programs with one free coaching call. I think it's a good way for you to introduce who you are and where this book Serve as came from.

Yeah. So that's my third book and my favorite. But I think every author's favorite book is either the one they just wrote or the one that they're like their next book that hasn't come out yet. But I'll focus on this one because you can actually get it. Yeah. So it comes out of like, what I do at my core business is that I help entrepreneurs sell your smarts without losing your soul. And then as part of that, I have a program called Sold Out Coach Club where I work with a lot of entrepreneurs who are launching mostly group coaching programs where it's very focused on like, hey, we're going to sell a premium flagship program of some kind. And every industry has sort of like some version of like the discovery call or the strategy session or like the one free coaching call. So that's people call something clarity or something clever, like a clarity call or a compass call or something. But it's all the same thing, right? It's. It's usually this sort of like pseudo coaching, but really it's a sales call in disguise kind of thing. And so the book Serve to Sell breaks down the strat, the serve call method, which is what my clients use for. How do you do that? How do you have a call that's high impact coaching? So the person you meet with genuinely walks away going like, wow, that was super useful to me. It's also market research so that you're actually always walking away with something valuable for your business from that call. And it sells a premium program. But it is a way that's really effortless even if you don't have a sales background. So that's the focus of Serve2Sell. And it's been a lot of fun to see the results people have had from. I mean, I literally just got a message from a guy by a guy named Steve Parks right before he jumped on here saying that he just read the book and launched a new program. And he had four calls in a row that he just offered a Free coaching call. And he made four sales for his new $4,000 program that didn't exist just because he followed the serve call model. You're like, that's. That's good. That's pretty good.

Yeah, I dig it. And I heard you speak about that at crafting commerce, the ConvertKit conference, which is so hard to see, say, because there's so many Cs this year.

Yeah, well, it's becoming less Cs now that it's a kit, because the ConvertKit is becoming kit. So maybe those. There's now a K instead of a. I don't know. Yeah, that doesn't really help you much, but.

No, it's. It's beneficial. But one reason why I'm bringing that up is because I. I spoke there the year before and that was the first time that I felt comfortable talking about the loss of my son on, on stage. And obviously that was, you know, very challenging, but it was just a beautiful experience. Cause it launched everything I've done since. Since then in regards to how I'm communicating with people, how I want to show up, and even the book that I'm going to be writing. Let me know if I have this story right, because I tell the story about you. I'm not sure if it's correct or not, but.

Okay, let's find out.

Is this correct? And if it's not, we're gonna edit this part out. But I believe after I got off stage, you told me that a friend of yours also lost a child, unfortunately, and that you shared my story with them. Is that correct or am I making that up?

Yes, that is true. I don't remember. Honestly don't remember all the context for that, but that's very true. So I'm pretty sure what I shared with you is probably actually about my wife's family. So my wife is one of two, but she's really one of four. Both her oldest sibling and youngest sibling died when she, you know, one of them before she was born and one of them when she's very little. And so like, that's just been like a theme in her family is like, how do you deal with, like, losing a child? But I know I've shared your story and that just like, I appreciate how vulnerable you were because I also remember at Craft and Commerce, I'm pretty sure, correct me if I'm wrong, but it was like in the Private Mastermind that, like, some of the vulnerability that came out there was why you decided you're like, I'm going to tell the Real story on stage tomorrow, you know, and that was really powerful.

Yeah, that was a great environment. I mean, I think it's. It's often hard for anyone especially, or I'll say, in my case, men, to open up about their feelings to people that they don't know that well. But there are maybe 20 of us in that room and I think four people cried. So I was like, all right, that's like a, you know, it's a pretty good.

Ratio. Yeah, it's. You don't really want to get to 100% crying. That's. I don't know. That feels a little dangerous. But, but, but, yeah, no, it's a really, it's a really great people. I like to think of the people at Craft and Commerce. Now it sounds like we're just plugging Craft and Commerce, but I do like to think of them as like the good guys and gals of the Internet. You know, they're really world class people, so I'm grateful to know them.

Yeah.

And that includes you.

Well, thanks. I appreciate it. And like, again, going back to your, your keynote this year.

Yeah.

I didn't know a lot about the challenges that you experienced. I knew that, you know, when you were younger, you were, you were low on money. You said like, maybe you didn't have like running water in your home. If I'm.

We had running water in the sink, but not in the toilet. So we used to flush the toilet with a bucket of water.

Just for context, everybody, John is not 80 years old, so.

No, no, this is true.

The technology existed to have a flushing toilet.

Yeah. It's not like back in my day. No. In fact. Well, in fact, it was just like from my early childhood, I was always struck by just the contrast of. I grew up in Franklin, Tennessee, which is. Williamson county is the 10th richest county in the U.S. that's where Kenny Chesney lived a few doors down the road. You know, I met like Billy Ray Cyrus and Faith hill and Tim McGraw in the drive thru and I went to Chick Fil A. Like, it's just, it's this, this place of like opulence and wealth. And then I grew up in a really poor family and a house that was falling apart and had since been condemned. We used to flush the toilet with a bucket of water. So, yeah, it was just like constant contrast. And you know that there's a lot of good things I can thank my family for, for sure. And so we could definitely talk about that. There's a lot of challenges that came out of that and then even just coming into, you know, the industry, like, you know, we work in Terry, where it's very focused on like, there's a lot of people very focused on like public image. And like, it's like both, like not just having wealth, but also making sure you showcase your wealth.

Yeah.

In some ways I question my career choice. And then I've sort of like continue with the same thing of like, our industry is dominated by just like comparison of just like, you know, who has more or less whatever. And I reject that, you know, essentially. And I'm just like, nope. Like, that's just like, I have a business and I help people build their businesses because we want to make the world a better place and because we want to provide for our families. And there's also nothing wrong with making money. Like, there's also. Because there's this tension, right. There's some people, they're just like, oh, you're a sellout if you sell online. And there's some people who are like, well, if you don't have a Lamborghini, you're not trying hard enough. And it's sort of like there's this like, middle ground of most people where it's like, no, I want to make a good living and I want to support my family and I also want to do good work. Right. You know, that's where I try to play.

Yeah. No, you're right. It is absurd at some points where it's like, we only celebrate the exceptional and that disenfranchises everybody else because they're like, you feel like, okay, if I don't have like a Lamborghini and you know, a 50 million dollar home, I am nothing. But I think we have to start celebrating like just middle class entrepreneurs. More like, hey, if you were making $40,000 a year and you're supporting yourself on your own terms, like, that is success. Right? There's that book, I will teach you how to be rich. And that's part of it. It's like just thinking like, what are the feelings, the emotions, the experiences that you defining the dollar amounts.

Yeah, love that. Love that. Yeah. My humble brag used to be. We recently got rid of it. But he's people like, oh, my third minivan, my third used minivan is in the Caribbean because I used to. We moved. We lived in Puerto Rico for a while and we came back to the US we couldn't bring our car over and so we just had a minivan. I used a minivan in Puerto Rico. So that's like my Humble brag. The closest I ever got to that was saying like, oh, you know, my, my third minivan is in the Caribbean.

You know, so I wish I had a minivan. I got too many kids and I have a minivan.

Oh, you do? You don't have a minivan. How do you not? You have a lot of kids.

Ego. I don't know.

Toyota. Yeah, Ego. There you go. Toyota Sienna. I'm just gonna say it. Toyota Sienna. Yeah.

So let's talk about how you built your business, right? So you go from living in this, this home, which, you know, was loving, clearly, but you know, LA amenities, and you, you felt, you know, maybe ostracized to an extent from your community. So what was next? Like, once you had the ability to start taking care of yourself, to start generating revenue on your own terms, like, what did that look like?

I'm a first generation college student and I'm the oldest in my, of my siblings. So there was a lot of pressure for me to go to college, kind of change the family trajectory that honestly, that's been a theme, I guess as long as I can remember that, like, my job was sort of like, to change the trajectory of our family tree a little bit in this category. To give my parents credit, they were the first couple in our family tree on either side to stay married. In my family, on average, you have about three marriages. And that's like. And I say that meaning, like, my aunt is currently on her third marriage. My grandfather died in his third marriage, my uncle died in his third marriage. And like, it's just like everywhere you look in my family, that's kind of normal. It's like, it's like marriage, divorce, marriage, divorce. And my parents, they actually had, you know, there's a lot of difficulty in their relationship, but they latched on and said, like, we're gonna change our family tree by saying, like, you guys are gonna have one one dad, one mom, and we're gonna, we're not gonna get divorced. And so they just held on for your life until my dad passed away in 2020. And so, so they made it all the way. My mom was still living, but then financially, like, it was very much like I was supposed to go to college and do all these things. That's what I did. I went to college, followed the path. I got a degree in Spanish and economics. I was on this path towards like a PhD in economics. I was working economics research lab. And man, it was just so frustrating to me how everything we were doing was just so imaginary. Like there was no real world component. We were just like theoretical economics and like spreadsheets analyzing the world. But I was hungry for something that was more like real world stuff. So ultimately I left the academia and kind of went down into. Got into. First dabbled in nonprofits, but really got into starting my own businesses as a way to say, wait a minute, this is real life economics. This is like practical supply and demand of like, let's go find a problem and let's solve it. And so that's what I've done for the last decade, which has kept me pretty busy, you know, a few different businesses along the way. And my first business was actually called Bitcoin 101HQ. And it was long time ago. Like this is, I guess about 12 years ago when nobody cared. I was also the executive director of the Tennessee Bitcoin alliance, and we were trying to get businesses to start using cryptocurrency.

Hmm.

But man, nobody cared at the time. And so I moved on to other things. But of course, bitcoin also moved up a lot since then from $6.70 when I first bought into whatever it is now, a lot more than that.

Okay, so bitcoin didn't work out too well initially. I mean, it's going well now, but when did you make the pivot to just go all in on entrepreneurship saying, like, this is my calling. No more theoretical stuff, no more crypto. Like, I want to do something that's more. I don't see real, but substantial and perhaps has long term benefits.

Yeah, well, I got married. Bitcoin did pay for my honeymoon, so I'm grateful for that. When I was broke and did a lot of other good things for me. But yeah, business wise, I started blogging and really just kind of sharing what I was learning because I was still new to the whole world of entrepreneurship and I was actually selling courses on like, they were software tutorials. But I was writing. Then I would do like a. I would do a course launch about the software tutorials, and then I would write a behind the scenes post on like, here's how exactly how much money I made from the course launch, and here's how that did. That was way more popular than my actual products. So I became sort of like, people started asking me questions about like, online marketing, which was like a surprise to me because I was like, I'm a nerdy economics guy, like homeschool chess club champion who like, was like, doing software tutorials. That makes sense. Why are you asking me about digital marketing techniques? But I paid attention and I served people in that way as best I could. And then I had enough revenue coming in from, you know, consulting and courses at this point that I decided to quit my job. And so I quit. I had. Because I still had a job at the time I quit my job, was so excited to go out there. And immediately, as soon as I did that, I mean, basically like everything fell apart in our life. My wife at this point was pregnant with our second son and something was wrong and off. We couldn't really figure it out. And then we figured out, we just didn't know that she had like, basically had like postpartum depression that continued from our first kid into the pregnancy and was just magnified. And so she was sort of just like losing herself. And then my dad at this point has had some health issues. It started getting worse and worse and worse to the point where ultimately I brought him to the er. Here's the other thing too. Because I'm an entrepreneur, my family is like, well, you got time, like, you go help him. And I'm like, well, I mean, yeah, it's like, well, I mean, of course I'm gonna show up for my dad. So that was not a problem. But anyways, so. But yeah, so I go and spent. I spent a week with him during what was supposed to be my biggest course lunch ever. I was sitting in a hospital room across from my dad in the bed, hooked up to all these IVs, they're running all kinds of tests to figure out what's wrong. And I'm supposed to be launching, writing launch emails, right? Like, buy now, you know, close cart, all that kind of stuff. And it just, I wasn't, my heart wasn't in it, you know, because like, things were rough at home, things were rough with my dad. And then ultimately he got diagnosed with stage four cancer while we were there in the hospital. And so I kind of let that course launch fizzle out and I wasn't sure what to do next because my, you know, I was doing this for my family and my family needed me in so many different places. And so a full time job opportunity came along, kind of dropped my lap right at that point. And so I, I want to go.

Back for just one moment and I, yeah, I hope I'm incorrect, but I had a similar experience with my brother because he had Ms. And he eventually passed away from complications due to that. But my first like big corporate training opportunity, I'm down in Austin, Texas for a company called Tetrapac. They make like packaging or whatever.

Yeah.

And I was getting paid well for this, like, for the first time ever. And while I was there trying to prep, I'm getting calls from the hospital that my brother is there, and they're asking me all this medical information and all these questions. I'm getting all these texts and everything from my family. And I was annoyed that I couldn't just be in my zone of genius to show up fully at my. My job.

Yeah.

And do well because there was more recurring revenue that would have came after that. So I was just, like, frustrated, like, you know, looking back, like, it is what it is. But in that moment, I was like, what the. Like, I'm just trying to do something, like making something out of nothing. Right now I'm down in Texas. These people pay me money to be here, and I'm getting bombarded with all this when there's other people that probably could have jumped in too. So I don't think it's a one to one with your situation. But I'm wondering, was there any kind of frustration? You're like, man, I'm just trying to get this course launch done, or did you immediately pivot and say, like, f that, like, this is. This is what it is?

No, I did not really pivot. There was definitely frustration. Like, I love my dad, and so I was happy to be there for him. So that wasn't really the issue. But yeah, like, I had other family members who are like, you know, I'm like, I'm trying to start a family and like, you know, I'm trying to launch a business. And they're like, you know, like, hey, I've got to work. Like, like my siblings, for example, or my mom would be like, well, you know, I've got to do this thing that pays. Working in this coffee shop, doing $8 now, whatever. I'm scheduled on Tuesday, so I can't take him to the hospital. But you're. You can work for yourself, so you can take him. There was a lot of that. It's like, that doesn't mean I don't work, though. Like, I still have to get it done. And at this point, I also had little kids, new marriage. So, yeah, there was definitely a lot of tension around that. I will say, when I look back on every time I've been faced with that tension in my life, which is constant. Right. Of like. Like, I have four little kids. You get it, Terry. Like. Like, when you have kids, when you have family, you and business, like, there's this constant push. There's constant, like, tug of war of like, who gets your attention. And I think, I think at some level I expect that to go away at some point, but I just embrace it now of like, look whenever I can, which is every time I choose family, sometimes that means that I pass up a huge revenue opportunity, right? Sometimes that means that I'm going like in the back of my head, I'm doing the math and I'm like, man, if I were to focus on that launch, that's another 10 or 20 or $30,000. But my family needs me right now. And so that's been the right choice. That has been the right choice every single time. It's been hard to make that because I also know next week my family's gonna ask me for like money for, you know, a new car, new school or whatever. And I'm gonna be like, well I don't have the money because you remember last week when we did the thing. It's a trade off. But I've made the choice of family every time. Even if sometimes it took me a minute to come around to it. Like with my dad for example, I was like, yeah, I'll just work from the hospital. And it's like that is the worst place to work from. You're like surrounded by sick and dying people like trying to like write launch emails about like you should like do get into email marketing. And it's like just like it, it doesn't, it makes everything we do seem kind of really silly, honestly when you're there. So that was challenging. But I took the job that created a little bit of space. Unfortunately it came with a pretty strict non compete. It's the first, first and only time and last time I will ever where I signed a piece of paper that basically meant I had to exit one business, a software company that I owned part of, I owned half of it and I had to exit that. I had to stop taking any consulting or coaching clients and I could keep blogging, but I couldn't monetize it. And that was, that was honestly like, that was really hard for me to accept because it was like a put, it was like taking my freedom. But the trade off was my dad, who's the whole sole breadwinner for my mom and my two sisters who lived at home at the time. He couldn't work and he was looking at me sick as soon as he got out of the hospital saying like, is there any way you can help cover some of our bills? And I'm just like, that was not the time to be like, hey dad, I know you just Got dosed with stage four cancer. But the reason why I can't cover your bills right now is because I didn't finish that course launch last week while I was in the hospital with you. Like, there was no way to have that conversation. So it was just like.

How old were you at this time?

27.

Jeez. Okay.

Yeah, so 27. I was. Yeah. And yeah, so I was 27. All this was going on. I took the job that allowed me to create space to take care of my wife's needs, like, to create space for like her and then both of us to go to therapy and really just like create some more balance and like health in our life and relationship. The we're still married, thankfully. You know, we're married for 10 years now. The, you know, my dad was able to go through, you know, I was able to take him to chemo every week, you know, for a long time for him to recover. And he did recover really well. But here's where it gets tricky. What I kept doing is I like, I knew I needed to get back to being a full time entrepreneur, that the job I had was just like, I just like, I know this is not like, I've had a taste now and like, I know I'm meant to be an entrepreneur. And so I kept waiting for like the perfect moment. So I sort of waited until like, okay, like my dad's health's good, my sisters are good, they're established, they got what they need. My wife's good, kids are good. Okay, it's time to jump again. And then I was actually strategic about it too. I was like, you know, we're gonna do. We're not only am I gonna jump from this job, there was a little bit of a way around my non compete where I could start a physical brick and mortar business that wasn't in the online space. So I opened a co working space with a bookstore in my hometown. Physical. That's very complicated, right? You're talking about leases and build out expenses and equipment and inventory and staff. But I did that. Why the full time job? So they had something to kind of like tide us over. And then I turned in my notice to leave that job. And then Covid hit, oh gosh. And this is 2020. So then my co working space was shut down by executive order by the government for, you know, we've been open for 48 days. We were closed for 58 days by executive order. So we lost half our customers and really struggled recover from that. My dad's cancer came back with A vengeance. And so he actually ended up dying in 2020. But for most that year, it was just a batt trying to save his life. My grandfather, who I'm named after, died. So I've been to John Mies's funeral, which is a very strange experience, if you can. Have you ever been to a Terry Rice's funeral?

Unfortunately, yeah.

You have? Okay. Yeah. Was that your son's name?

Yeah.

Okay, then, you know, like, I mean, he's your son, so it's even more powerful and awful. But also, like, hearing at my dad. My grandfather's funeral, everyone gave all these speeches about John niece was like, just. Just weird.

Yeah.

It's like, it was. It was hard. And so my. The patriarch.

Two patriarchs and John, take a step back. Like, I don't believe in comparative pain. Like, you're in pain, I'm in pain. So, like, it's not like one was worse than the other. Like, you. You obviously loved your grandfather, and you know, I love my son, so it's. We're. We're both going through it.

I appreciate you saying that. Ajr, the band has a song called World's Smallest Violin. Have you heard it?

I'm familiar with the concept. World's smallest violin.

Well, no, but they take it, they turn it, and they were like, look, the world's smallest violin still needs an audience. So, like, whether I'm in pain or you're in pain, like, we're in pain, and I'm just gonna, like, be in pain. And sure, maybe it's the world's smallest violin, but, like, the world's smallest violin is an audience too. Like, the whole song is basically just about that whole idea of, like. Of saying, like, just because someone else has a problem doesn't mean my problem doesn't matter. So thank you. I appreciate you saying that. My grandfather was really, like, the patriarch of our whole, like, extended family. He was one everybody depended upon in our whole extended family. And then he died. And three months later, my dad died, and I became the oldest male in the family tree. At 30. Mm, newly unemployed, my brick and mortar business closed. And, man, like, I was just sort of like, I was like, but, but. But I waited for the perfect moment, you know? Like, I just was, like, so overwhelmed by that. So that was really hard. I mean, that was like 2020. It was also this year, seven in my marriage with my wife. And if you've ever heard of the seven year itch. Have you heard of that? Do you know about that?

Yeah. Yeah.

So statistically, most divorces happen in their seventh year of marriage. And we were not really talking about divorce, but it was the. We definitely felt more disconnected then than any other time in our relationship. And then so it's like everything's falling apart. So that was 2020, you know, not that long ago.

Yeah. It's interesting because one thing I appreciate about 2020 is for people who had never gone through, like you and. You and I, they had at that moment. And I think it increased the empathy that people might have for others because maybe they never did lose, like a son or things like that or so on so forth, but, like, they know what it's like to go through it because they went through it as well. And that's my hope, is that we keep that lesson in our head, like, and we're just more empathetic going forward. Yeah. So 2020 was a rough one. You know, your brick and mortar business was shuttered. Lost a lot of family members. What. When was the turnaround point? Like, what. When did things start to, like, uptick to an extent?

Yeah. I mean, honestly, 2020 was just about staying alive. So, like, we didn't really, like 2021. We started turning things around. But yeah, so by the end of 2020, businesses started to pick up a little bit. The co working space was break even by the end of the year. Like, we weren't going to close it, but it wasn't making a bunch of Money. And then 2021, we focused on growth across the board. So, like in my, like, coaching consulting business. And that's when my first book came out. Survive and thrive was in 2021. And then I also had gotten back the old software business actually hadn't grown at all since I had left it. So I had just like, got back my ownership sort of just like basically for free of just like being like, can you just help us grow? Yeah. So 2021 is a year growth. And then 2022 was a year of me realizing, like, oh my gosh, this is too much. And then like, basically I sold the co working Space company in 2022, and I sold the software businesses in 2022, and my core business as an author and a coach and trainer became my core focus. And then at the end of 2022, we moved to Puerto Rico, which was sort of this part of this whole, like, we're into the new era of, like, beauty and bounty and entrepreneurship and wealth. And then two of my kids got hospitalized and almost died in the same week. And we had to move back to the States overnight just to save their lives and get better medical care. And they did survive, which I'm very grateful for. My Myron, my 4 year old now has type 1 diabetes, and so that's like an ongoing need. And Mateo, our one year old, has other needs, but they made it, you know, and so. But that was then I came back, and then. And then I slipped at a birthday party and broke three bones in my leg, and I couldn't walk for three months. And I was in a wheelchair and had to have three different surgeries and a lot of titanium put into my ankle before I could walk again. And that was a year ago. Christmas was actually when I started walking again. So I think, honestly, like, you know, it's nice. It'd be nice if you mean to put this in, like, sort of like the hero's journey of, like. And then there's a. Everything was mad. There's a point where you're like, the conflict was over, and then everything worked out well. And it's like, I guess what I've learned or what I'm still learning is just like, I just stopped looking for that magical day when all the conflict goes away. And I just try to, in each day, manage, like, okay, like, what's the next right thing? To manage the competing needs of my business and my family and also to recognize that, like, I've seen so many entrepreneurs who've prioritized their business and they've gotten all the financial wealth they wanted, and their family is just, like, falling apart and awful, and I don't want that. And so it's just like, so my business does well, supports our family now, but, like, I'm not making the, like, millions or billions that maybe I could be. But that's okay because, like, I'm spending and I'm really prioritizing my family over and over again. And that's the right choice. My kind of rich.

Yeah. And it sounds like the one constant throughout your life that you had was family. I mean, like, maybe you didn't have a flushing toilet, but you had a loving family. And, like, even throughout the challenge that you had, throughout your life, that that's been the one purpose that keeps you going, that gets you out of bed. And I think we all need something like that because everything else can change, right? Your job can get taken away, your business can fail, but if you have some kind of other motivating factor that gets you out of bed, then you're unstoppable. Right? No matter what happens. And you realize all the ebbs and flows, it's like, it's just a season of your life, right? And you get through it. And on my end, even when things are going very well, I don't get too elated because I'm like, you know what? This could all change, right? And I can't, like, make this my baseline for normal because it can come crashing down, and I don't want to have that. That huge, like, thud when it does. So I think, you know, both of us, by having these experiences, it makes us stronger. And I think we've gotten through it without being calloused, which can happen as well.

Well, actually, can I speak to that real quick? The callous thing there was. Yeah. So 2020, like, was awful for everybody. Our specific version of 2020, again, not about comparison pain, but, like, our version of 2020 was just. I would never wish that anybody. Right? It's like, I lost my grandfather, I lost my dad. You know, our business was shut down. Like, we just had, like, horrible problems at home and, you know, work, et cetera, et cetera. Part of the job story is also that, like, what I actually did, because I had a very public role, was I turn in my one year notice, and I said, like, one year from now, like, I'm gonna go back to being a full time entrepreneur. And then they fired me. And then they came back, which I knew was a possibility, but then they came back and they were like, oh, nobody knows how to run this business without you. And it's like, yeah. So they hired me as a consultant, but still, like, not a great time for all that to happen. That year was awful. It almost broke me, however, in 2023, when two of my kids were hospitalized at two different hospitals in Puerto Rico in the same week, both of them almost died. And my wife and I were basically stranded and alone on this island in different hospitals with different kids where we couldn't even see each other, while we both just tried to, like, be with our kids and hope they survived and pray that they would after all of that chaos. My wife and I both agreed that the only reason why we had the resilience to get through that experience was because of 2020, because of what we experienced in 2020 made us stronger. And that a preview, like, the 2019 version of us would not have survived mentally through what we went through in 2023. And so it's like, we couldn't have known that in 2020. They're like, oh, this is part of preparing us for the future. But, like, but it did. And so I don't know I hope that's encouraging to somebody that just, like, whatever you're going through is hopefully building your resilience for the future.

Yeah, no, I think you're. You're absolutely right. I think it's a good way to. I think it's almost a good way to end off, but, like, let's. Let's go deeper there. So pretend there's someone out there listening and they're going through some kind of challenge, right? They feel hopeless and. And you don't have the context. But, like, what, if anything, could you say to them to this, make them want to get out of bed tomorrow and just keep trying?

I think it has to be others, right? Like, if you're just focused on yourself and your needs, then you can stay in bed. Like, that's just, like. There's not really a big downside to that, but you have to, like, just redirect your focus and your energy to other people who are hurting and in pain, who don't need you can. People who love you or people you wish who loved you. But you just have to shift your energy to other people, to helping. So that's what I would recommend.

Powerful stuff. John. I appreciate you. Thank you so much for sharing your story and your wisdom. And where else can we. Can we find you outside of the book here?

If you go to sell your smarts co, I give away a free crash course on how to sell your smarts without losing your soul. Man, we got into some pretty heavy stuff today, but there's a lot of more. I mean, the heavy stuff matters, and there's a lot of useful, helpful, inspirational, hopeful resources available at sellyoursmarts Co. So I recommend you check that out. Terry, real quick, before we wrap up, can I just share one piece of advice I got that's been helpful to me that I think might be helpful to somebody else?

No, we're at time. I'm joking. Please proceed.

I was wondering. I was like, okay, all right. Yeah, I got advice years ago, just sort of in passing, but really stuck with me about the fact that, like, life is built on this, like, this series of. It's like breathing. It's like you have seasons of inhaling and exhaling. And that's been really helpful to me. Like, a lot of times people talk about is your. What's. What's your season? It's like, my season is like, this is bounty. This is the season of, like, planting. And it's like, that's never really clicked with me, but I'm able at all times to Go like, oh, right now I'm at a season of inhaling where I'm, like, kind of, like, rebuilding resources. I'm learning things, and I'm kind of, like, creating new routines. I'm prioritizing, like, rest and care. Or is this a season of exhaling where, like, I'm going on, like, a podcast tour and I'm, like, speaking on stages and I'm launching a book and launching a course, launching a coaching program. And the reality is, like, it's not just, like. It's not like climbing a mountain where it's just like you're always going up. It's like you're inhaling and you're exhaling. And that's been a really healthy, helpful approach for me in understanding what's going on in my life. And so I hope that's helpful to somebody else, too.

Yeah, it certainly is. John, thank you for this. I appreciate you.

It's my pleasure. Yeah. Keep up the good work.

And that's our show for today. And if you're looking for more tools and tactics to help you level up and overcome setbacks, head over to Terryrice co Reclaim, where you'll gain access to two free resources. The first is the High Performance Playbook, where I share my top performance techniques. You'll also gain access to the Forge system, a program that gives you the framework to create a powerful vision for your life and the daily habits needed to make it happen. And if you're interested in joining the Reclaim and Advance movement, here are a few ways to get involved. First, subscribe and leave a review. This is the best way for us to spread the word to new people. Second, if you have a favorite takeaway from this episode, please take a screenshot and share your takeaway on social media. Tag me Terryrice so I can see it and share as well. And lastly, this one's pretty simple. Just do one random act of kindness. It doesn't matter how big or small, but this is your chance to start a ripple effect that can have a positive impact on those around you, including yourself. And remember, success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It's the courage to continue that counts. I hope you'll continue on this journey with me and I'll see you next time. Reclaim in advance is hosted by me, Terry Rice. Megan Dom is our managing director, and our editor is Dan Lardy. Thanks for listening.