From Survival to Success with Jourdan Hathaway

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I was actually born into pretty extreme poverty and I was born into a home that the deck was really stacked against me in a lot of ways. And I didn't often have power and I didn't have cable or God forbid, any of those kinds of luxuries. But when I did have tv, one of the very few channels that I had had Bewitched on it, and it was the show that I watched every single time I had the luxury of having the TV turned on. And I saw this beautiful nuclear family in this really safe environment and I saw dinner on the table and I saw home and I saw sod and I saw a car. And that family was funded by an ad man. So in elementary school I said to myself, if I want to build this life, I can do it by becoming an ad man.

This is Reclaim in Advance, a social impact project where we host vulnerable conversations with modern day high performers exploring the lowest points of their personal or professional life, how they recovered, and their life on the other side of hardship. My hope is that you'll realize you aren't the only one who goes through tough times and there is a way out. Through these conversations, you'll gain inspiration from the grit and honesty of our guests. And you'll learn practical tools and science backed frameworks that empower you to take on new challenges, regardless of how difficult they may seem at first. So if you're ready to join in, let's get started. Jordan Hathaway is the Chief Marketing Officer at General Assembly. Her expertise is creating digital transformations and scaling organizations for growth. And while she's had some impressive successes, she earned her expertise from the school of hard knocks. Let's jump into the conversation. Jordan, how are you today?

Feeling great, Good, thank you. How about yourself?

I'm feeling great. I'm doing well. I'm looking forward to chatting with you because I know that this conversation is going to be very engaging, very intriguing, and very helpful for our audience. So what I want to do just to start off is do you mind sharing your superpower? We'll lead with that.

Sure. I've given that actually a lot of thought because I've been asked that a lot over the years and I think I'm down to being able to Say it. And it's this unique blend of being truly driven. And that might sound a little familiar to you, right. When I talk about driven, I mean it as an acronym, and I mean it as determined, resilient, influential, vulnerable, empathetic, and nimble. And those qualities together, I think, are what make up my drive. And why I say that's my superpower is because the combination of those two, when you think of driven, you think of the obvious things, which are a bias for action and growth and drive and all of those things. Yes. But the reason why I put in empathetic and vulnerable and those aspects of it is because it's such a big piece of it. It's such a big piece of how my drive sort of manifests is that that walk in humility that I have and that vulnerability that I have as I'm walking towards something, I love it.

And I want to get more into how you apply that to your life soon. But I think it's brilliant that you chose, essentially an acronym is your superpower. So you can have like six different superpowers kind of bundled in there.

It's cheating, Terry. It's cheating.

It's okay a little bit, but I'll allow it. I dig it. So let's do this. Let's talk about how you applied that superpower in your life thus far. So your professional background would be helpful.

All right. So my professional background today I'm the Chief Marketing Officer of General assembly. And if you're not familiar with General assembly, for those who are not, it is a global upskilling, reskilling, and talent solutions provider. And I've been with the organization for just under a year now. And prior to that, I was the Chief Operations Officer in a higher ed space at Wiley.

Awesome. So General assembly, like, I just have so much love for that organization because, as I've mentioned before, that really saved my entrepreneurial journey. I started teaching at General assembly about six months after I started consulting.

And.

And it was great just to have people who respected me for my time, my talent, my energy, without me needing to go out and just actually build these relationships. Right. So it's better than pitching coldly. And then from there, I got really used to answering tough questions on the spot, which made it even easier for me to improv now that I'm doing public speaking and live TV and stuff like that. So I just have a lot of affinity for General assembly and everything that it's done for me.

Well, Terry, you are a legend there. I didn't want to lead with that. But yeah, General assembly has a long line of people who have been materially impacted since its inception, all the way to the graduating class of yesterday and the people that attended a workshop this morning. And that's the impact that it makes. And it's incredible to be part of that organization and see it in action every day.

I'm going to throw a curve ball at you. If you were to take a class at General assembly, what do you think you would take?

Ooh. I am pretty obsessed with data analytics and the application of data science, so it would probably be in one of those areas. I would also be very interested in ux so that, that as a marketer. Right. I'm a chief marketing officer. So when I think about my practice day in and day out, and I'm dissecting revenue leakage to get a little businessy for a minute through my website, UX has a whole lot to do with it. So just making sure that I keep up to date on those skills I think are really important in my day to day job. And then I actually just took the AI for Leaders workshop, which was fascinating. It was absolutely fascinating. Highly recommended.

I feel like these days anything with AI is going to pop. And if you're not leveraging it for your business, you're making life harder on yourself than you have to. But let's go back to how you got there because that's, that's a pretty good position. So if you don't mind just going through your background, taking a step further back, how did you use this drive to accomplish what you have so far?

Yeah. So I started my career on the ad agency side. I'm a marketer by trade and I'll tell you how I picked that profession at some point. And then I segued into technology and then I found myself back into marketing in the corporate world. And then I became vice president of marketing. And that's the position that I was really excited to have for a very long time, was reaching that big coveted vice president role. And I had done so much work from high school on all the way through every internship, every job, really working towards that. And then this intersection of opportunity and preparedness happens. That's the way the world works. Right? And there was an opportunity for me to become COO or the division unit head of operations. Terri. I did not wake up one day and go, oh, good, I've transitioned from marketing into operations. So good news. I speak Ebitda and Capex and opex. So glad that came to me in a dream last night. No, what happened is I got into this role and I found myself thrust into different rooms, different responsibilities, different remit, different scope. And it was painfully obvious to me that I had a skills gap. I had a pretty big skills gap. And it's something that I had to resolve and own and just figure out a path to go from novice. And novice would be kind to an expert in a pretty short amount of time. And so I put myself on my own professional development plan, going back to drive. I was very determined to figure out how to close this gap. I understood very much that the best way for me to do that was to be vulnerable and have nimble learning and to be empathetic to those around me who are trying to teach me, like, all of those things that I talk about. So at the time, I didn't know I was creating a framework, but I was, and it's called FLAT Project flat. I had to make finance packaged up and kind of sexy for myself in order for me to get really jazzed up and excited about it. There's no other way to say it again. I'm a marketer through and through. FLAT was financial literacy advancement training. And for me, it was this metaphor of me needing to flatten the learning curve. I had to flatten the curve, and I really wanted to give myself the same ability to thrive in that room and close that gap. So it was as much about getting the specific skills on how to read P&Ls and all the things that you would learn in a certificate program for finance. But, Terri, that's not where most of the learning came. It really isn't. It was by networking and by connecting with people who had that skill. It was taking notes during a meeting where I bombed a question and I didn't understand the application. Application of what I was talking about. And then coming back to that person saying, hey, I don't think I understood that quite right. How would you have said it differently, listening to earnings calls? Like all of those things, I look back and I just threw myself into every conceivable permutation of what I thought the learning could give to me. And at the end of all of that, I was materially better. So, yeah, that's an example of how I use it on the professional side.

Well, I want to hear about how you got into marketing in a moment. But the example you just gave, did someone give you guidance on doing that? Did you have a mentor? Have you seen someone else do that before? What gave you the idea to essentially create a curriculum for yourself so that you could do better at your job.

You know what's funny is, Terri, I found something that I wrote in first grade and it was four ways I'm gonna get better at speaking Spanish to my neighbor Rosa. And I look at back now and it was like this little. I wouldn't have called it a framework in elementary school, but there was something for me about this step, step by step process for me and this reflection and part of me writing it down and spending time with it and sitting in it and journaling it and reflecting on it is I guess just my way of, of learning. And then being able to look back and say, okay, what, you know, what did I really learn about that? Or being vulnerable with myself. Like having the space in a journal to talk about when I bombed a meeting or I didn't understand a concept. And then, you know, looking back at that years later and then being able to see the progress in yourself too. Right. Like celebrating your wins and your advance.

I want to, I want to double click on this because I know that one of your goals was to do a pull up and you went through some, some training for that, which I'd love to hear about. But do you live your life in these prints, like these 90 day sprints where you're going to learn Spanish or learn how to do a pull up or learn finance? Is that how you're constructing your life?

In some cases, it would appear so. It would appear I've been doing based.

On what you've been saying the last five minutes. That's where I'm going with this.

Yeah. And I wouldn't say they all work out. If you want to ask me to play piano, you'll be very disappointed in that project. It did not go well.

Got it.

But. But yes, I seem to apply this same. I guess it's like this version of structure and digestible components. And sometimes it's after the fact. When I talk about Project Flat, it was a document that was three pages and you can download it for free. It's on my website. Just literally download it and craft it and take it your own. At the time, I wasn't really thinking that I was gonna turn it into this long format journal and website and all of that stuff. But because I had journaled every single ounce of it, all the failures, all the successes, all the wins, like all the step by step tips I did, and most importantly, how to leverage your relationships. Like, one of the things I kept circling in the book is you would be so surprised. Not you, but many people I think would Be so surprised at how many people would say yes if you just ask. I called up the CFO of two companies that I had never interacted with in my life and said, this is what I'm working on. Why? And I would love to be able to schedule 30 minutes with you to ask these questions to make sure that I'm interpreting it right. Not one of them said, how dare you reach out to me? How dare you know I'm too busy for that. Every one of them was more than accommodating. And then the trick to that, not trick, but in expressing gratitude on the other side is saying, hey, I used that advice that you gave to me and it was very beneficial. And here's how it worked in this conversation. I want to thank you for your time. And I used it and I applied it. I think that goes a long way. And you can be sure that the next time I reach out to that person, there's a high likelihood that they would be willing to help again. And I know I would do the same. Like anyone who reaches out to me, I have a tendency to help as well, so long as they're clear on what their intentions are. Right?

Yeah. And thanks for unpacking that, because your process for doing these, let's call them a 90 day sprint, is something that all of us listening can repeat too. Right? So like whatever you want to accomplish, maybe it's writing a book, getting in shape, learning a new skill, whatever it is, like decide what the skill is and then learn what you have to do to actually develop that, you know, so it could be through education, could be through mentorship, and then some kind of accountability and follow through. So it's like a four step process that you've been using over, over and over in your life that we can all leverage as well. But let's go back to why you decided to go into marketing. I want to hear that story.

The reason that I went into marketing is going to sound. It's going to sound pretty strange, but I think you'll understand it. Something that I'll share with you and share with the listeners is that I was actually born into pretty extreme poverty and I was born into a home. That the deck was really stacked against me in a lot of ways and I didn't often have power and I didn't have cable or God forbid, any of those kinds of luxuries. But when I did have tv, one of the very few channels that I had had bewitched on it, and it was the show that I watched every single Time I had the luxury of having the TV turned on, and I saw this beautiful nuclear family in this really safe environment. And I saw dinner on the table, and I saw home and I saw sod, and I saw a car. And that family was funded by an ad man. So in elementary school, I said to myself, if I want to build this life, I can do it by becoming an ad man. And so that's what I did. I set out to become an ad man, which in, you know, for all intents and purposes, advertising and marketing and public relations. So all the way back in. Actually, even in elementary school, I created a little company with crayons called Gizmos and Gadgets, where I was going door to door selling perfume, handmade perfume. It was terrible. It was gardenias that I boiled in water that actually had floating ants in it. But anyway, back. Even back then, I just saw this as a path. And maybe it was the only path that I saw. But for whatever reason, I connected with it. And I stayed the course into that until I started becoming more gravitational pull towards technology and workflows and infrastructure and those sorts of things. But now the good news is marketing and technology are so intertwined that I get to live the best of both.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I dig it. And what I want to do is go back, though, because you mentioned, like in fourth grade, you're trying to learn how to speak Spanish to communicate with your neighbor, Rosa. At the same time, though, you.

You.

Things weren't great at home. I mean, you're wondering if you're going to have electricity from day to day. So what was within you to still have this empathy, this desire, this creativity to be able to connect with this person, even though you had enough to worry about at home?

I look back at that time in my life and I could not have told you, Terri, that I knew where that spark came from. Now there is a piece where I was born with a spark. But like every kid who's born with a spark, without somebody kindling it and helping that fire grow, it's very hard for them to ultimately achieve. There was something in me that understood the power of human connection. Even back then, I wouldn't have used those words, but I would have said there are people that create a environment for you or an opportunity for you that in some way become this catalyst for changing the course of your life. And so with Rosa at the young age, it was simply because she made cookies for me. And going back to that conversation that I had earlier, this yearning for coming home to cookies after school, I just thought if I could properly thank her in Spanish and show my gratitude in that way, that she would be more likely to invite me over. Right. So it's that reciprocity, I think, in building authentic human relationships and showing gratitude for when people open the doors for you.

It's the same thing with your flat project, though, you know? You know what I'm saying? Like, keeps on going back to the same thing where it's like, ask for help, actually show appreciation, and people will help you more. So is it that simple?

Like, I'm trying to make it this? Yes, but, yes, I think you're right, Terri. I think you're right. I really do.

And that's the fun part about, like, this podcast in general is we realize there are just common threads that we can all pick up on that will help us lead to. That help lead to great outcomes. And, you know, we don't have to do anything extraordinary. Sometimes you just like being a nice person, showing up and putting in work. Like, you know, it's not that. It's not that difficult. But on your end, you mentioned, like, a catalyst, right? And wanting to be a catalyst and, you know, experiencing catalyst. And on my end, one catalyst that I experienced was just getting fired from corporate and looking back, gosh, I'm so glad that happened. I am so glad that happened because everything that happened since as a result of that. But I know when you're going through it, like, that's not something to tell someone, like, oh, it's gonna be the best thing that ever happened to you, so on, so forth. So do you mind sharing an example of another catalyst that. And that you experienced that initially seemed horrible, but turned out to work out pretty well in the end?

Oh, man, do I have a catalyst for you that changed my life. And this is actually not on the professional side. This is more on the personal side. In my 30s, after I had established my home, everything that I had been working towards, when I became an admin, I did it. I had the home, I had the sod, I had the car. I know I had a safe car. I had all of those things. And I thought, okay, well, I'm almost 30 now. I've done all that I'm supposed to do, and I want to start a family with my husband. We lost six children, including stillborn, in that process, if you could imagine. And I know that you can, what it's like to experience a child loss, it is unfathomable. It is absolutely unfathomable. And there is no way you could have Said to me when I was experiencing pregnancy loss number three, number four, number five. And everyone, well intentioned saying, just stop stressing out about it. It'll happen. That doesn't help everyone. Just, just so you know. That doesn't help. What I could have never imagined for my life is that my life would include adoption and open adoption in the most beautiful, incredible story where the birth family lives down the street and we are now in a blended family and we celebrate Christmas and all the holidays together. In fact, we're babysitting my daughter now. Babysits, who is the biological child, babysits for her half siblings.

That's awesome.

None of that would. Had I not gone through that and let me fast forward a little bit back to, I guess, my framework. So what do I do as I get to the other side now? I do go on to have an incredible story where I have a biological child in the middle of that. So I have two kids that are only five months apart. I am, I have two teenagers right now. So just, it's an incredible story and how. And how it worked out. And then we went on to lose another child after that, and that made seven. And that was what I dealt with in my. In my 30s, with my husband, in starting our family. But after that, I founded a support group with people all around the world, and it was called Sand Wabi. It was sad and wanting a baby. And there were people from every country in all walks of life and completely different worldviews. In fact, most of us didn't actually know anything about each other. It was all anonymous for a long period of time, except for the one thing that brought us there, which was we had all lost children in the same time period. It was so necessary and critical for me to have this support group during this time and to go through that period with those ladies and gentlemen. And years and years later, we tracked each other down on Facebook and found that we could not have been more different from one another. I mean, could not have been more different. And it was this. It was this really powerful learning for every single one of us where we saw the sameness, I think, in humanity. And again, that shapes the way that I see the world today. I'm much softer person, I'm much more empathetic. I'm much more vulnerable in a lot of ways. And it once again said, you know, sharing your story and sharing whatever it is that you went through can make that not go away or any less than, but it can give something positive on the other side of it.

Yeah, you have to find a purpose in the pain. And I'm not saying, like, all things happen for a reason. I'm just saying, like, once they happened, you have to find a reason in it to move forward in a meaningful way. But here's one thing that I. I still struggle with, and I've suffered a lot of loss as well, is how to console people who are going through something like that. Because, you know, your friends are saying, oh, don't worry, don't stress about it, so on and so forth. Like, do you have any guidance on how you would console someone going through a tough time? And again, I don't have the answer, so I can't say, oh, that's right, that's wrong. But I'm just curious if you can share your thoughts on that.

I have definitely stopped saying things like, everything happens for a reason, or, don't worry, you know, it'll all work out in the end. Even though I might believe that second part deep down inside. Not that it will all work out in the end, but you will make it to the other side of whatever this thing is. I simply ask two questions and it is, I'd love to bring you dinner today or just hang out on the couch. Would that be okay? And I'm really specific not, can I do something for you? Is there anything I can do for you? I don't put that onus on the person to come up with it. I say, can I come over and make cookies with you today? Very binary question. And then the other question I will just ask is, what are you doing this week that's getting you off the couch? And I asked that because there were a lot of times where I remember just being on the couch and being just inconsolable. And I had a really hard time just getting to that next step. And I couldn't. I couldn't think about two months, four months, five months, a year from now. Like, it was really just about getting to this next day in this grief. And that's all I could process in that time. So now I just say, like, hey, what are you doing this week to get off the couch? And, you know, they might not have a reason. And then I go into the, hey, can I come over on Thursday and make some cookies with you? And that, I found has been better than the other things that I've tried in the past before I've gone through it.

Yeah, that would have helped me. So I appreciate it. You're right. I mean, it's like when you say, is there anything I can Do. It's like you put the onus on the other person. It's like, I don't know, I'm going through some stuff. Like you got some ideas, I can sift through them quickly, say yes or no. But if you want me to put in work when I'm suffering, like, that ain't gonna happen. So I appreciate that. Let's go forward now. Jordan, what is your vision for the future? How do you want to be thought of? What circles do you want to be in? Like, how do you want people to speak about you?

I think like most people, I want to believe that I mattered and that I mattered first and foremost to myself. Like that belief has to come within you. And I've spent a lot of time and a lot of self reflection on getting to the spot where I feel really good about, about me mattering me mattering to myself, to my husband, to my kids, to my family, to all the obvious pieces of it. But to the day to day interactions that I have with people around me. And I think being a good human is in my personal and professional remit. Right. The older I get, the more I realize how important it is to show up in a way that is positive and additive to the world. And it does not mean that we're always going to agree and that every meeting is going to go great and that I'm not going to have a different point of view on how we're going to stop revenue leakage on this particular initiative for Q4. Right. All of those things are still true. But by and large, I want to be looked at as somebody who people said she really cared a lot about people. She cared about what she did. She had a high bar of excellence, she expected a lot of us. She believed that we could do it or if we couldn't, we were gonna learn the fail. That was the win together. But she was in it. She was in it with us and like genuinely in it. So that's, that's what I hope for the future.

My personal philosophy is live your legacy, meaning if that's how you want to be remembered, live that way now. And it's clearly that's how you are living now. And I'm curious, what role do you think journaling plays in having such a solid vision of your future? Because a lot of people I talk to, like who, unless they're really putting in the work, like they don't have a clear vision, like, oh, I want to retire and like move to Florida, like stuff like that, it's like, okay, cool. But like, what else do you want to experience? So I think the closer. Closer you are to your own thoughts, and journaling is a great way to do that. Like, the more real your vision becomes and the more you can speak about it as well. So I'm wondering, what role do you think journaling plays in regards to you establishing your vision?

Yeah, it's a really big part of my vision. And it got more serious, I would say, over the last set of years, and I'll. I'll tell you why. But as long as I can remember, I've been writing my entire life. I come from. My mom wrote, my grandmother was a writer. Everyone sort of just wrote. So I have been writing my whole life. But most of it was really intense, theatrical, teenage girl stuff. You know, it would help me get through the breakup or the thing that I was going through at school or whatever, and all of those things were really, really important. And again, my steps. I would have my steps on whatever goals I was having. But in the last couple of years, to answer your question about the crystallization of your vision for your life, I actually had an executive coach. An executive coach who was working with me, and he would ask me question after question about what I wanted for my life, and I'd answer in the way that is okay. But what I couldn't do was if I were to say, I want financial freedom, Or I want. Why do you want this, Tyler? Or why do you want this influencer? Why do you want, like, anything? Like, why do you want any of those things? Like, what is the end goal of wanting those things or getting those things? And how do you know that you did it? Like, how will you know? How will you know? So then he tasked me with writing down, like, what does financial security mean to you? Right? I'm very obsessed with having financial security because I come from not having a home and being evicted all the time and not having power, right? And that stuff stays with you. It stays with you for a lifetime. No matter what, where I'm at in my life, I reflect back, and that that child is still there somewhere where I'm going. We're okay, you know, it's okay. Right? But what is. What does financial look like for me? What will that mean for me? And I got so clear, Terri. I got so clear, I mean, in quadrants of health. So we'll talk about that. Pull up in family, in experiences. It means going to see this composer in London with my daughter, who's a cellist. It means going to see a Pittsburgh Steeler game With my son in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh. It means. I mean, it was really, really, really crystal clear. And you know what's so awesome about writing it down, Terri? I know if I'm doing it, I booked that trip to London next year. I did. That's me being able to see tangible proof that I am living the thing that I'm setting out to do, which is just this, like, keep going. Like, it's the keep going thing. Saying, like, you can do these things and something like going to London to see a composer and all of that stuff may not seem like a big deal, but I'm telling you, 20 years ago, that was not an opportunity for me. It was not, it was not conceivable for somebody who had the deck that I had to be able to do those things. And so now I look at that and I just keep journaling, right? And then I move the goal post, I move the goal post to keep moving, keep adding it as I check them off. And it's. It's incredible. I love it and I want everyone to do it and I want to celebrate with them when they go do the thing.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. I can tell, like, you're rooting for everyone else as well, especially the underdogs, just the way that you're speaking.

Oh, I love it.

And to your point about money, I mean, we all know money can't buy happiness, so and so forth, right? But, like, if you're already happy, it can damn sure finance some fun experiences. So it is nice to have that financial security where you can feel comfortable doing so and not feel like you're jeopardizing your future. So I can appreciate that. Before we wrap up here, I definitely want to hear the, the pull up story because I also went on my own fitness journey as well. And I love hearing these. So let's have at it. Let's hear the pull up story.

Okay, so in my mind, when I talked about, like, the ultimate way to get to, you know, this life is to become the admin. In my mind, the. The ultimate sign of strength is to be able to do a pull up. Now fitness people that are listening argue all day long about what the ultimate sign of strength is. I don't know, but for me, there's like something just, wow. A woman who can do a pull up is just. It's badass. And I wanted to do one. Let me tell you where I started. I could not hang from the bar for five seconds. I've never done a pull up in my Life literally can't do the monkey bars. Not even as a kid. Like, when I say, so far out of my ability to do it would be like, I said, I'm gonna fly to the moon next Tuesday. It just wasn't. So. I said, by the time I turn 40, I am going to train and I am going to do a pull up. 40 came and went, didn't do it. 41 came and went, didn't do it again. Journaling. And 43, for whatever reason, was the year. And I just set out to do this. And I trained for 21 weeks, day in, day out, day in, day out, 21 weeks to do one. One. Just one. I walked into a gym to a personal trainer. And I will say as I go, oh, well, as a personal trainer, that was the difference. Surround yourself with people who know how to do the thing. If they don't actually know how to do the thing, it's not the person that's probably best equipped to help you do the thing. That was the difference. The last couple of times I tried, it was on my own. I did not know how to do one. I was certainly not in a position to help myself do one. So just like the executive coach who helped me get really clear on my future vision, I had to get a personal trainer and say, I have one goal before my 44th birthday. I want to do a pull up. That's it. And he said, make it three and we have a deal. I said, okay. So for 21 weeks, we trained. And it started off with just hanging. That's it. And eventually, I mean, the gym that watched me do this day in and day out, the day that I got it, the entire gym erupted. And you would have thought I just planted a flag on, you know, Mount Everest. But I do think people root for you when they see how hard you're working. I really do. And I find that, you know, I find that time and time again and again, I was very vulnerable. Hey, guys. Good to see you. Hey. I'm hanging for 14 seconds today. Personal best. And it was funny back then, but, you know, kind of people came along in this journey and so. And that kept me motivated, too. Every day, especially on days where I didn't feel like I was making any progress. By the way, I can do four now, so, you know, working my way to five. Yeah.

No, I love it. I mean, that was the same as you, like years ago. I couldn't even do one and just put in the work, you know, just learn from the experts and had a goal and was able to achieve it. So glad we're both doing pull ups now before we part, before we part ways here. I know there are some of our listeners that are, they're tuning in. You know, they're listening to your message and they're following it. But like they're still feeling like, you know what, there's this thing that this roadblock or this obstacle or just like something in belief I can't get through. So, you know, based on you being this, your superpower, being drive and being driven by. What would you say to them to help them get some drive to get unstuck.

First thing I would say is if you're feeling in the middle of a crisis, in particular, do not go and get bangs. That's the advice I would give to myself time and time again. Whenever I was in a personal crisis, I would cut bangs. And it never worked out for me. No, in all seriousness, that progress and resilience and overcoming adversity or getting the skill, like whatever it is, the thing that you're doing, it's nonlinear. It's nonlinear. It is a nonlinear path. And what I mean by that is you don't go from zero to I can do it. And every single day is momentum and progress and feeling great about it and all of that stuff. I just told you that I tried at 40, didn't do it. 41, didn't do it for three years. So if you look at that as three years before I got one pull up, it's this ability to just say it's okay that I didn't make progress this time yet. And then find people who have done the thing. I cannot stress that enough. Put yourself in a place where you're surrounded by people who model the thing that you're trying to do because they will take out a lot of the scariness of it, the bigness of it. It becomes second nature to them. Right. For you public spe. Somebody who wants to get into public speaking should hang out with you. Right? You don't want to hang out with somebody who's either themselves and paralyzed with fear or hanging out with people who've never been on stage before. So you've got to find the people who know how to do that. And there are plenty of people out there who delight and find their fulfillment and joy. Hey, me being one of them by giving back. So find that person in your life. There's much more of them than you think. Just ask.

And Jordan, as we're parting ways here, I know a lot of people are going to want to find you. And you mentioned some resources on your website too. So do you mind just sharing that before we part ways here?

Yes. Jordan hathaway.com and that is Jordan with a U. No clue why there's a U in there? I have no idea. It was not helpful when I was getting magnets at Disney World. Never was spelled correctly, but Jordan with a u jordan hathaway.com you can find me there or on LinkedIn.

Jordan Hathaway all right, Jordan, we appreciate you. Thank you for sharing your journey, your perspective, your Sprint strategy as well. And we'll be following along. So thanks for that.

Oh, thanks for having me. Always such a good time to talk to you.

And that's our show for today. And if you're looking for more tools and tactics to help you level up and overcome setbacks, head over to Terryrice Co, where you'll gain access to two free resources. The first is the High Performance Playbook, where I share my top performance techniques. You'll also gain access to the Forge system, a program that gives you the framework to create a powerful vision for your life and the daily habits needed to make it happen. And if you're interested in joining the Reclaim and Advance movement, here are a few ways to get involved. First, subscribe and leave a review. This is the best way for us to spread the word to new people. Second, if you have a favorite takeaway from this episode, please take a screenshot and share your takeaway on social Tag me tzterryrice so I can see it and share as well. And lastly, this one's pretty simple. Just do one random act of kindness. It doesn't matter how big or small, but this is your chance to start a ripple effect that can have a positive impact on those around you, including yourself. And remember, success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It's the courage to continue that counts. I hope you'll continue on this journey with me and I'll see you next time. Reclaim in advance is hosted by me, Terry Rice. Megan Dome is our managing director, and our editor is Dan Lardy. Thanks for listening.