How to Create and Launch an Online Course with Jess Catorc of Teachable

You pick up some new skills that can actually give you some time back through passive income. So we're here with Jess today. So Jess, welcome.

Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's so cool to see all the different topics in the chat. And I agree with all the comments on your workshops, by the way, from the summit were very good.

Well, I appreciate that. So, Jess, speaking of topics, I have a question for you before we get started. What is the most unique course topic you've come across? And I'll get you started with that because I had a student in my digital marketing class who was really crazy about chicken coops. And she's like, terri, I want to make a course on how to build urban chicken coops. And I'm like, that sounds. I'm like, that sounds ridiculous. She did it and it was wildly successful because she was very niche and that she was talking about how to build an urban chicken coop. And lo and behold, a lot of people want to build an urban chicken coop. So I said to bring up the fact that some of you might think you don't have good ideas to build a course or all the good ideas that already been taken. Chicken coops, yes. But a lot of their stuff still out there. So Jess, on your end, just what are some unique courses you've come across before?

Oh, this is such a great question. I think so the one that always stands out the most is Deborah Neiman has a course. One course, she's many. But one of these courses is called Copper Deficiency in Goats and there's over 3,000 students in that course. But I've also seen something that's interesting is that while people get very niche on the topics, they also started to narrowed down on levels. So there's intermediate blacksmithing, like things that are just very specific, that even if you're teaching a very like, you know, very clear outcome, a very clear topic at least. Like differentiating it with the level or experience has been interesting. But I feel like we've seen. I mean, there's so many in arts. There's one on dolphin communication. Like, it's just interesting to see. Like if you're passionate about something, I think there's going to be other people that want to learn about it as well.

Awesome. Yeah, I think it's a good point. And let's just talk about it. What's the first thing you should do before you start creating a course? Because I think people get lured by passive income. It's going to be great. I just wake up and there's more money in My account. And unfortunately, some people spend a lot of time to not realize that dream. So before you even, like, get started with whatever, what's the first thing you think you should do?

Yeah, this is really important. And I think a lot of people will, you know, create the content just because they. Even people who have an audience already, they're like, oh, like, I'm known for this thing, so I'm just gonna create a course on this topic. I know people are gonna love it. And then they launch to crickets. And so I think before you even spend any time creating your content, building your website, doing all this stuff is validating your course and the idea. And there's a few things that I've seen people do that I think are incredibly effective. One is knowing that there's a difference between your superfans supporting you and being like, oh, my gosh, I would totally buy this, and people actually putting money down and putting their credit card down. Um, and so I've seen people launch, like, three or four different ideas for, like, a beta launch and letting people know that if I get a certain amount of students in one of these courses, I'll continue and I'll build up the program launching on this date. And the reason why that is so effective is, one, you don't have to create a bunch of content. And two, you've saved yourself so much time if you know that literally no one purchases one topic and you have this huge demand in another one. So I would say that that would probably be the first thing. And then also is like talking to your target audience and knowing how they describe their pain points. I think the biggest aha moment that I've had is realizing that the way that we see ourselves is different to how the public or the leader would see us. So, for example, if I had a course on how to organize your house, and let's say there's someone who is a perfect fit for that course, and they go on the sales page, and for me, I describe their pain points as, hey, is your life a hot mess? Are you all over the place? Well, this course is going to help you achieve that. Even though the course itself is what they're looking for, even though I know that my methodology, my framework will help them, the way that they see themselves is not reflected in that pain point or in that copy. And I think it very clear to get clear on that first to ensure that you're communicating the value of your product.

That was a lot of value at once. So I'm going to ask everyone in Attendance to help me out as you come up with some of these key takeaways, can you just jot them down? And if you don't mind sharing them with us on social, you can tag yourself, you can tag Jess and Lord, if you can put in our handles, that would be great. I want to be able to aggregate all these and share them out later because that was amazing. And your point about superfans reminded me of every party I threw in college. All your friends like, yeah, I'll be there, I'll be there. And it's like Saturday at midnight. Where are you? You're not here, right? You're around the corner. What corner are you talking about? So just being able to validate that a bit better, I think is very bright. And one thing that I did that I would suggest from a research standpoint is I surveyed my audience using LinkedIn and reaching out to other consultants, that's who I work with, and asking them to bring up, fill out a brief survey. Brief, five minute Google form survey. I reached out to 200 people and believe it or not, 46 people got back to me. And the leading question was, what's the biggest hurdle you face on a daily basis in regards to whatever you're doing? And then if someone waved a magic wand and created a solution, what would it look like? So that alone is a way to validate your idea and to your point, put it in their own words. Because you can have the right solution, but if you don't iterate it properly in a way that like, oh, yeah, you get me, you're not going to get them. Right? So I think that's, that's bright. You brought that up.

Was there any, like. So when you survey, was there anything that surprised you, like where you thought people were gonna say certain things?

I was surprised they got back to me in the first place. So that's one so full of surprises. What I was really surprised about was the fact that people, they weren't really necessarily worried about how to get clients. It was like they were unclear how to position themselves in the first place. And I always say clarity is the precursor to confidence. So they couldn't even confidently go after clients because they didn't know how to speak, you know, about what they did. So me being able to say that, like, are you unclear on how to position yourself and, you know, present yourself to your target audience? That's talking point number one. And then going into getting clients after that. So that, that surprised me quite a bit. Another thing was the fact that they wanted to get more or less, like, peer support for this program that I started. Not just me being expert, they're like, you're cool, but what about everyone else? So they really wanted, like, the wisdom of the tribe to help them as well.

Yeah. I think community is a huge part, and I actually think that's something that we don't really discuss enough about, especially as we've seen this wave of people moving into the online space, creating content, sharing knowledge. There is an element of when you're learning something by yourself, that even if you have the best teacher, it's nice to know that you're doing it alongside of other people. You know, people being able to share their progress. That's also a really great way, too. If you have a community and people sharing their wins, you're also building a collection of testimonials and social proof as you launch your course a second time. But I know, I mean, I've done courses. There's one course I signed up for that was like a gymnastics course, and it was very, very helpful seeing it for beginners. It was very helpful seeing people in the community sharing their progress and sharing their wins, because it was encouraging. I was like, oh, these people, I can see them getting better. I'm going to continue going through the course, doing all the action items, which I thought was really smart.

Yeah. And I think it also is great to see people kind of messing up, too. And you're like, great. I'm not the only one who doesn't get how to tumble or whatever. Right.

So we're not even there yet, but yeah.

Yeah. And then for the course creator, to your point, they're getting feedback, like, maybe that wasn't clear. So maybe I have to revisit this and iterate on it a bit more to be successful. Okay, so we're clear on how to validate the idea. All right, so we have this great idea. What next? What do we do?

Yeah, so let's say that you have gone out, you have tested out the idea. You've even seen that you've, like, had pre sales. And I will say that this, the idea or the concept of doing pre sales is great and it's very effective, but you need to know your personality. So you need to know, do you work well under pressure? Because as soon as you announce that, hey, I am selling this course, if we get so many enrollments, then I will create it and I'll launch on this date. You need to know that public accountability works for you. Otherwise it is not going to be a fun process. But let's say that it works for you. You're ready to go. What's really important, and I think I'd love to kind of dive into what you've done as well, because this is something that we say time and time again is you want to create some type of free offering. And the reason is that let's say that you have 40 people that signed up for your course. You probably are going to want more people. You want to start to build out a funnel and start to lead people who maybe are interested in this topic but weren't quite ready to put their money down yet. And mini courses are probably one of the most effective way to do that. I mean, you can see, like if someone signs up for your mini course, they're likely going to be a great fit for your paid course. And within that period, you show to them that you can deliver value, you can help them get to an outcome. And I think that it's incredibly important to do rather than just taking people from idea, validating it to. All right, here's my $2,000 program, my $500 course. Oh, I think you're on mute.

I hate being that guy. I was like two weeks in a row not being that guy. I know I had to reset everything, but anyways, so thanks for giving me the excuse to share my free mini course. I'm going to put a link to that right now. But my course is about how you can attract and convert coaching and consulting clients. And I did this within 12 hours between creating the outline, writing the script, recording the content, putting it all in a teachable and putting some extra content there, I was done. And for someone like me who has three kids at home and still likes to work out when possible, it's been a really good way to continue keeping leads coming in to the point where we actually had 300 leads come in over the last three weeks. So really happy with that. You can give me a 301 right now if you sign up for that course. I just put the link in. But we have a good question from Heather and we're going to start in regards to this. She's saying, you know, I've done some research and tested the market and I'm ready to soft launch. Can you talk about putting up a smaller, lighter version of a course and how not to undercut your main business by offering a cheaper version online?

Yeah, so this is a tough one, or not a tough one, but I think it's a common thing that people worry about. It's also people who are freelancers or coaches and they're like, well, if I teach people how to do it for a cheaper price, why would they hire me? And I think it's really important to note that just because you're offering a like lower priced product because it looks like, is it your offline business, your main business offering by cheaper version online. So it sounds like you have something that you're doing in person that's more expensive. I think it's important to note that the value that you're offering is different. So with your course, maybe there's certain elements that need that in person interaction or that extra guidance that's not available online, which would justify a lower price point. There isn't that level of accountability.

So.

So if you are a coach, you have to show up at a certain time, you have to meet them. That will have a higher price point than being able to access on demand training all the time. So I don't think that it undercuts your main business. Maybe we could get more clarity on what your business is or what it is that you do offline, but I think it's just important to communicate what the value is in both settings. So it's not like you're just doing like a discount version online, but ensuring that you also are charging enough. I think a lot of people get stuck in this and maybe we can dive into pricing as well. They get stuck into this. I feel weird charging for something that I recorded and I can sell over and over again. So I don't know, I'll charge $20 for it. We see a lot on course marketplace sites. They do that. And the problem is that like my favorite quote is happy students don't recommend your products. Successful ones do. If people aren't investing in your product and they don't feel like it's valuable, they think it's an impulse buyer. I know you said there's some courses on Udemy, you know, that are like $10. You might not get people actually going through the content and getting those results. So I think it's important that even if you have a cheaper offering online, you still are pricing it accordingly so people still value it.

Yeah, you don't want the key takeaway to be great price because that's not gonna sell for anybody else. But Heather was nice enough to give us some more feedback. She's saying she helps college students and recent grads launch into internships and first jobs. And her one on one coaching is around $3,500.

Okay. Yeah, that's great. Perfect. Example, so I can hire you and pay you $3,500 to get your guidance, your tailored thoughts, your tailored expertise to my situation. Whereas this online version, it's still going to help people maybe can't afford your one on one services, but they have to do a little bit more work, they have to do a little bit more digging into their own situation, looking at your examples, going through the curriculum. So I don't think that it undercuts your, your main business. And in fact, I've gone through so many courses where I'm like, how do I work with this person one on one? I'm like, how can I pay them more money? Because I want them to see my progress, I want them to give their input and their advice on my situation. So I definitely don't see them competing. In fact, I think it's a great way to get more people in the door into your client base and then they see that you've all these other offerings that as their business grows or as their sorry career grows, they'll be able to afford more of the higher end offerings.

Absolutely. The other thing I would add to that is you can also use it as almost like a try before you buy. Well, you have to buy a little bit, but it's like, hey, spend 400 bucks on this course, it might answer all your questions, it might not. But if you want to work with me one on one, here you go. And you know what, by the way, I'll discount the price of the course if you do sign up with me afterwards so you can use that as leverage. And I highly encourage you to do that because you'll build up that trust during the interim. And then by time they, you know, consider working with you, they already feel like they know like and trust you and you're on your merry way. So I would consider that. But Jess, we kind of skipped from how to get started to we're done. So can we, can we, can we go back a little bit? Because you have this really good idea and you want to launch it, but how do you like nuts and bolts? How do you like, plan your content? What does that look like?

Yes. So I'm actually going to do like step 1.2. Because once you have your idea, what's really important to get clear on is the outcome. And I think a lot of people, when it comes to creating their courses, creating any type of product, they have this huge promise or a very vague promise. So for example, how to live your best life, that's the course and what you'll find is that if you don't have a very specific, a very tangible outcome, it's going to be very, very difficult to start to create the content. Now let's say that you narrow it down and you're like, my outcome is going to be how to grow your confidence in networking settings. When you're an introvert and you don't like being around people you know, very specific, you know exactly what that outcome is. Now what you want to do is you want to work backwards and think, what does someone need to do step by step every single day or every single week or in this order to get to that outcome? And as you start to jot that down, what you'll see is you start to have sections. And I would think of the sections as if it's a chapter in a book. So it's the high level goal that someone will achieve in the section. It's very specific. And then within that, that's where you would include your videos and you would show them how to do it. As far as like creating the content or delivering the content, a lot of people I think get stuck on like, what do I say? I'm ready to record what do I say in the video. And I think the best thing to do is to follow just this framework and you can tweak it, of course, but always answer three questions. So what are they about to learn? Share why it's important and then you show them how to do it. And the why is a very important part because a lot of the times people don't really know why they should care about what you're about to teach them in this section. So yeah, hopefully that kind of helps. And that's like a lot to remember in like one sitting.

But yeah, no, I mean, that's helpful. So again, start with the end goal and then say, okay, what do they have to do sequentially to actually achieve this goal? And then within that there's these nuances, like if you want to make a sandwich, like, you know, get the bread out, unwrap it, so and so forth. And I think what might be the challenge is since you're an expert on the topic, you kind of like glaze over some of the details. But you need to look at the world without the shadow that you cast upon it and see what it really is and say, no. People need these minute details because, you know, it's like when you're assembling furniture from Ikea, if you miss one little detail, you're like, great. You couldn't have said like tab bagels and sloppy. So just being that granular and intentful with your content I would say is super beneficial. But I mean as you're going through this content and you're building it, are there certain tools, apps, like what do you need to. Again like nuts and bolts. We have the framework. But how do I actually create stuff like videos? Do I have to be on camera? Like what does that look like?

Yeah. So I'm going to give a few different options and ideas because I don't want everyone to feel like they have to sit and have their face on video all the time because that's not their personality or they feel uncomfortable on camera. So as far as like the actual tools or things that you can use to deliver your content, it depends what you're teaching. But the first option is just to do slideshare with a voice. So you can use like PowerPoint or Keynote. You can use a screen recording tool like screenflow, Camtasia. There's Loom, which is fantastic. So you could use like a Google Slide Sheets as well as. Or Google Sheets, sorry and Loom to record it. So I would say like that's like the first one what I would say though. And again, you don't want to just have like professional looking content. You want to ensure that people are engaged, that they're not zoning out and kind of looking on their phone while they're watching your videos. Is if it's possible to include your face while you're presenting it, it does help make the content more engaging. The other option, I mean most people, Terry, you'd be surprised how many people have seven figure launches and they film the whole thing on their phone. What I would say though is you want to prioritize your audio over video because if people can't hear your message, it is very difficult to focus and to absorb the content. So if you have like technical equipment, things that you can look into, there's great additional like microphones you can plug into your phone to have clear audio. A webcam is more than fine. You can get like a blue yeti mic. But I would say like keep it simple for your first launch. A lot of people procrastinate building their course because they feel like they need a ring light, a DSLR camera, this like fancy microphone and. And I'm sure what you found too with your course is that you'll launch this preferably like with a beta launcher. You have some people going through it first and you notice that one of your modules needs to be completely reworked. Now if you paid for a huge video shoot or you invested all this money in content. How are you going to update it now? You've put this huge pressure on yourself to now invest more money in it. So really, like, start small, get feedback, update it, and you can always grow it from there.

I was that guy who bought all that stuff you just referenced, so we should have talked earlier. I was that guy who bought all that stuff you just referenced, we should have talked this summer. But no, it's one of those things where sometimes you confuse buying stuff with progress. And you're like, oh, yeah, look, my camera's coming in next week. Guess I can't do it till then. It's like, no, dude, just, like, do something right. Be productive. And, yeah, I mean, I think the one I did for a teachable for the summit, that was all, like, just me talking over slides, and the feedback's been great. So, you know, I don't think you should let that be the enemy of progress. But it's so easy to confuse buying stuff with progress when it's like, no, just like, talk. But Heather's asking, what apps do we recommend for this? I believe you said camtasia.

That's for PC. ScreenFlow is the Mac version, But also Loom is a web browser extension that is great and would work, I believe, on Chrome. But then you can do it directly in your browser, too.

Yeah, Loom's amazing because you can have, like, the talking head if you want. So it's like, there's your slides, but then there's, like, your head down there, like, looking animated. And when you're making your slides, just remember, like, your head's gonna be down there, so stay out of that danger area. Heather's asking for filming. You can just use your phone if you'd like, or you can be like me and drop 600 bucks on a camera. But I think. And Jess, I'll let you chime in, but, yeah, you can literally use your phone. And Heather's saying, can I edit using imovie? Yeah, Heather, you already know this stuff. You should just. Just teach this. But, yeah, And Justin, you want to chime in? I'll let you go ahead.

Yeah, no, Imovie, she's like, I don't know. Imovie is fine. It's free, obviously, on your computer. Also, a ScreenFlow you can edit within the actual app. Tella. They're still in beta, but I would recommend Tele TV as well. I actually also wonder. I'm pretty sure you can record on streamyard, which is like an amazing live streaming app. But you could like, you can have your video on the side, your screen shows up so you don't have to do any editing after. That's something to look into. What I will say though, just kind of adding on to this, you know, feeling like we have to buy all this equipment and we kind of do all these like really big things when we maybe don't need to right away. I also think it's important to look at the actual course itself. There's this idea or this feeling that if we're charging money for something, we need to include hours and hours and hours of content. And you know, this is back into the old like television marketing days where you'd get like 80 hours of bonus extra like content. These CDs that get shipped to your door and you, if you think of like being in the seat of the student, if you can learn how to do something, if you can hit an outcome in the least amount of steps, you're always going to choose that over someone that can teach you how to do something in six months. So really keep that in mind that when it comes to the sections. So the steps that you're taking, I actually think 6 to 12 sections is like a really nice spot. As soon as you get more to that or you start having like 30 minute videos in every section, it starts to become overwhelming for the student and I think for the course producer as well.

You touched on a really good point here. So essentially as short as possible, as long as necessary in regards to the course. But you also just said like videos should not be 30 minutes. Well, how long should they be?

Yeah, so there's no like set number. And I. This is probably one of the most common questions when it comes to video. They're like, how long should my video be? What I would say though is that your video should only have one clear outcome. So obviously you have different steps and you'll have different pieces of advice in it. But if you find that people are getting like three wins in one video, I want you to think, say a week from now your student is like, what was that thing that they said? And they go back to this video and they have to skim through all of this content to find that one core thing. So I would say like, when you're getting to like the 10 minute mark, that's probably like a good place to either stop or break it up into more than one video. But again, it's not a perfect science because there might be something that you're doing that takes 20 minutes to teach from like start to finish. But usually most people it's like two minutes to 10 minutes. And then that way it's easier for people to kind of go back and look.

Makes sense. Another thing I've seen some people do is they're like, within the video, they'll say timestamps. I talk about Instagram here, Twitter here, Facebook here. So if you want to skip ahead, you can do that. And I want to grab a question here, and this is a long one. Normally I pre read these so that I don't see anything weird, but this is from Randy, who's who I know. So I'm going to trust you're not going to make me say something weird. So he's saying there's a lot of community validation and advice offerings. But here's the challenge I'm running into. There are platforms popping up everywhere for creators to connect with and monetize your audience. And there's also ones like teachable, upstream, YouTube, Instagram. And although I'm active on selecting, I know I was gonna mess up, I'm on them. Although actively on selection is resonating with me what course or roadmap to best utilize my passion. So, okay, I think the summary is, you know what, how do I actually summarize the passions that I have into a course? And I'll kind of get started with that. Randy, the way I think about it is you should pick a topic that you could just read a thousand books on, go to 100 conferences on, watch a bunch of webinars on, and just never get bored. Because then, you know, you're in your zone of genius. And we can talk more about that later. But there's something that you're really passionate about, you really care about, and you just want to share this content with an audience. Maybe it's chicken coops, Right? That's the way I think about it. Jess, if you want to chime in on that one.

Yeah. I think it also kind of touches on a larger point, which is that when you're creating a course, it's very easy to feel like you are now going to become known as this person. So if I launch my course on chicken coops, that's all I can do. All of my courses after that, all my products, everything I do has to be around that specific topic, which I think adds this huge pressure on us to choose that one topic that we want to do that we're most passionate about. And what I would say, like adding on to what you said, Terri, it is Very important to be passionate about it. It's important to ensure that people want to learn about that so you have validated it, but also maybe start to think through, like, if you have a few different passions, is there a progression ladder that you can make for the different offerings that you're going to have? So even if all of your passions maybe seem like they're very different, are there certain trends that you're seeing or certain connections where, you know, we're just going to build off on this example? So my first course, I'm really passionate about urban chicken coops, but I'm also really passionate about gardening. So I think maybe the next offering I could have is, you know, if people are interested in chicken coops, they might also want to learn how to have herbs on their kitchen sale. I clearly don't do any of this, but, you know, you can start to think through, like, okay, maybe this is, like, the one topic where I found that there is a demand. I validated it, I can talk about it, and I can create all this content on it for a while, but also knowing that there's a couple of other things that I can start to grow into as I build out this brand and this offering.

That's right, because, you know, once you have someone who's satisfied, they're gonna say, what else do you have? And if you're like, oh, nothing, it's like you're kind of stuck. Great question from Vivian. She's saying, you know, how do you decide whether you should be the speaker or it should be someone else, such as your business partner or friend for the E course? And Vivian, I can. I can understand that, because on my end, I'm stoic and sarcastic, which is a horrible combination. So for me, it can be challenging to be on video, especially when it's not in front of a live audience. So I hear you there, but again, Jess, I'll bounce it over to you. Like, what do you think is the right fit there?

I mean, the first starting point is it has to be someone that is excited behind the idea of being on video. Don't feel like you have to be the person if you really don't want to do any of this. What I would say, and this is something I've seen when there's a brand or a company that has, like, three faces to the name, is you can have different people do different topics. So, you know, just like, if you're going through school, you have different teachers and have everyone discuss the topics. That's their, like, zone of genius. Or the topic that they're most passionate about. But I think at the end of the day, it really doesn't need to be like. I mean, obviously it's helpful if it is the founder of the business because you are the person behind it. But I feel like if you really don't want to do it or you have people that are competing to be the course presenters, you can also split it up too. And I think that's just as valuable.

Awesome. Okay, so we decided our speaker, we have this course ready to launch. How do we make money?

Exactly. So really, really important. The launch. And like when you have sales coming in happens before you open enrollment. So people are so focused on the sales period, they're like, okay, I've got my sales page. Now everyone can just go and buy. I'm so excited. But really, we have to communicate the value of not just our product, but of the outcome and the topic. So a lot of people might not realize that your course is something that they've wanted. I didn't know that I wanted to learn how to do a backflip until I saw an Instagram ad and I got put into their funnel. And so what you want to do is you want to focus on the pre engagement phase. So we call this education phase. But you want to start to release content related to your course topic. So, for example, Amy Porterfield does this incredibly well. Where. Well, when she had her. When she's doing her podcast on her course launch, I think this was like years ago. I'm sure she still does it for a month on her podcast, all she would talk about was the value of online courses. And then you'd start to see that month. Two, she's like, by the way, I've been talking about courses, we've been discussing the value, the impact it can have, the solution it can be for a lot of your pain points. By the way, I have this free video series that I'm doing this free webinar around this topic that then leads into the sales phase and sells the course. So I would start to think through. So for those of you watching now, what are some things that I can do where I'm giving value to my audience? I'm generating a demand for the topic for people who would be a good fit for this. So ideas, the mini course, you can do some live streams, you can do case studies. So talk about people who have had very specific pain points and by doing this specific thing, got you a result. And then what you want to do is move into the sales phase. So you have people going through this, they're signed up for your mini course, they're loving your webinar, they're getting all of this value. I mean, I can walk you through. We have like an eight day launch phase. I don't know if that's too in the weeds, but I can go through it pretty quickly. The, oh, let me know.

I can't get you off because someone's gonna be like, dude, let her say it. I'm like, no, you don't. So like, yeah, go ahead.

So, yeah, I'll go through this pretty quickly. So day one of your sales phase. This is where you announce that you're going to be opening up enrollment for your course. But people can't buy yet. So this might feel counterintuitive where you're like, I've built up all this demand. And then the first email I send is coming soon, but it's important that you will let people know. So they're like, oh, I want to know more about this course. And they're going to look forward to your next email. The second email is where you talk about the value, like what's in the course, but ensure that you don't just list out all of the things that are inside of it. You really focus on the outcome. So you know, in module one, you're going to achieve this. Module two, you're going to achieve this and really sell. Like, what will this person be at the end of the course? What will they have? Then you move into like FAQs or objections. So a lot of people think that like frequently asked questions are literally just the questions they get the most of, but really you're addressing objections. So what might be holding someone back from purchasing your course who might be a good fit from it? Then you want to move into, like, if you want, you can add in a surprise bonus. So hey everyone, if you now join, you're also going to get this incredible bonus. Then you move in to the testimonials and thanking everyone. So you want to send out an email to everyone thanking those that joined. And you'll probably find that you'll have people going through your content and sending you messages being like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. I had no idea you're going to do all this. Include that in the email and then finally send a wrap up being like, this is the last chance to buy. Enrollment is closing. Here's the link to the sales page. So I know I went through that very, very quickly, but hopefully that kind of shows you the progression of where you want to take people and ensuring that there is a closing date, especially for your first launch. Otherwise people will procrastinate. They're like, yeah, this sounds great, maybe I'll do it. I'll wait until next week. And then they forget.

I was trying to find that list on your website as you're going through it, but if anyone missed it, we'll find you can like message me or Jess. But no, that's very valuable because I think it's frustrating where some people have like this knowledge locked inside of them and they don't have the structured approach that you're giving them to actually release and monetize it. So it's very much appreciated. And we have some questions here that I didn't necessarily see the first time around. So I think some of these I can grab. Is it possible for you to make adjustments to the course after you launch? How quickly and easily can you. Can you create that? Do you want me to grab that?

I can say it again, Sorry, do.

You want me to grab that one? I can do it.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, you've gone through it as well recently.

The answer is yes, you can make changes to your course after it's gone live. And I think you should. Right, because you're getting feedback saying section four was unclear. Redo section four. But to Jess's earlier point, if you had some huge production over shooting Section four with like, you know, all these lights and special effects, you're like, great. You know, it's going to look different. So you should, it should be, you know, more like a living document that you just keep evolving. It gets better and better and better with feedback. So, yes. Another question from Jeremy. He's saying, is the section the same as a lesson or is it a group of lesson? I believe the way it's set up is like there's modules like module 1, 2, 3, 4. Module one might be social media marketing. And then like lesson one would be Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. You guys know what social media platforms are? I'm not going to continue, but that's how you would spread separated out by theme. But Jeremy, one thing that I didn't think of earlier was those, those modules and those lessons, they're. They're customer facing. So you should almost have some marketing in it. Right? You shouldn't say like how to do social media. You should say like your guide to breaking through on social media and getting more clients. Because if someone's like looking at your course and it's like this basic statement, it's not really making them excited to purchase it. So I'll be very intentful even how I name those modules and those lessons as well. Another question that came in is how do you get continuing education credits for your course to garner a higher price point? Is that possible?

Yeah, I mean, it depends on like if you're, like if you're a university or is it like having a certification at the end? I can talk like, I can only talk about like the technical side of it. So if you're using teachable, you definitely can offer a certificate. But I'm not too familiar as far as like additional credits for continuing education. I think that has to come from like, like a university. I don't think you can just offer it. Is that the question? Maybe misunderstanding it is.

And I'll give you my take on it as well. So again, just this point, like, that's up to the university. Do they say this meets the standards of whatever the curriculum is? But let's take a look at the world the way it is right now. There's a lot of kids or young adults in college who are attending class remotely, yet they're paying the same amount as if they were in person. And they are very upset. So what I'm going to do and what I recommend doing is reaching out to university, saying, hey, I have this course on Instagram marketing. Would you like to use this to supplement marketing one on one. That way these kids feel like they're getting more value out of this school and not asking you for a refund. And hey, by the way, if you want, I'll do office hours every month, every week, whatever it is, and charge them $10,000 for the course to license it as a charge to charging an individual $500. So for me, I always think, how can I 10x the situation? You know, the math is wrong on that. How can I amplify the impact of the situation? I would encourage all of you to think along those lines. How can I sell this course not to individuals, but to organizations? And then to the other point, maybe they will make it a certification. Right? Maybe also become an instructor there, which is going to boost your credibility even more. So just think through the opportunity that's in front of you right now and expand on it.

That's so interesting. I hadn't even really thought through like the fact that people are paying the exact same amount for, you know, not being in person or attending the college. That's. Can any, if any of you do that? Can you keep us posted with how it goes? I'm very curious. I think that's such a good idea.

I'm in conversation with my college, so I'll let you know. Yeah. So back to price. Million dollar question, hopefully, how do I price the course?

Yes. So, okay, I'm going to give you like the answer that I know people want to hear and then I'm going to give you like the actual answer on how you figure it out for yourself. So everyone asked like, how much should my course be priced? And what I can say is like the average price of our top 10 selling instructors on teachable, the price of their course is around $272. Now I'm not saying that you should all charge $272. Really what's important to you, and we kind of do touched on this before, is you want to ensure that the price of your course is something that your audience would perceive as valuable. You want to avoid getting into that impulse buying zone where you're like, okay, it's a race to the bottom. My competitors charge $500, so I'm going to charge 200, even though that's completely underpriced and people aren't going to appreciate it. And again, it's because we want people to look at your course and mean like, oh, this is going to be a good course. This person values their content, they value what they're providing here. So what I would say is like, look, do some research for your industry and see what are the average price points that people are charging for this specific like topic, this course, this outcome. What's the cost of if I work with someone in person? So going back to, was it Heather, you know, to work with a mentor or a career advisor? I'm sorry, Katherine, I'm trying to find your business here, but it costs $3,500. Okay, well I can justify that. What would be a perceived valuable price for doing this on demand? And then something else to consider is there's something called a tripwire. So we always get pushback where people are like, okay, well how come this course on Instagram is only $20 and everyone seems to be selling, you know, $17, $10 courses. And that only works if it is leading up to a larger price tag course or product. So they'll do something that is an impulse buy. It's like $10. People are invested because they did pay a little bit of money, but then they have a follow up sales sequence that sells you into a larger program. So yeah, really, I think it's important just to do your research to See, what would your audience perceive as valuable? But as far as, like, the numbers and what we're seeing, the average price was around $272. But that could be very cheap for some people and very expensive for others.

I think that point that you make is doing that research is so important because again, if you're just like, assuming this is how much it should be, you could greatly undervalue across the price of your course. So people don't want to buy it or, you know, too high and have the same effect. So doing that research is super important because it's so nuanced. If you're helping someone become a realtor, that might be more lucrative than helping someone, like, you know, learn how to put together their furniture or something. But I want to address some more of these questions. And one question from Heather. She's saying, you know, how many free mini courses do you need? What's your goal? How many leads do you want? Right? So you kind of have to have a goal first and say, okay, well, I'm up to a thousand leads now. I'm up to 2000. See what happens with your conversion rate and build from there. That would be my advice. Another question from Randy saying, hey, Jess and Terry, would you be open to sharing that? How many leads do you want? Right. So you kind of have to have a goal first and say, okay, well, I'm up to a thousand leads now. I'm up to 2000. See what happens with your conversion rate and build from there. That would be my advice. Another question from Randy saying, hey, Jess and Terry, would you be open to sharing the awesome sound and mic that Jess has? I think Jess just sounds better because she mumbles less and does not say as often as I do, but it could be the mic. Terry, do you want to share your cool headphones? Yeah, these are Bose QuietComfort 2s. And the only problem is I can't hear my kids yelling in the background. So I think things are fine. And people are like, can you mute yourself? But, Jess, do you want to share the mic that you're using?

That's so funny. I get that question, like, the most. When you do our summits. All the questions are like, what's the mic? Maybe because it's just like, covering half of my face. People are like, okay, what is it? This is the Rode NT one. I just love equipment, so it is not something that you need. The blue Yeti is also a really great option. But yeah, rode NT1 pop filter. And then I have like a. An audio interface. To connect it to my computer.

Let's stop there for a minute though, because this is very important. Alright, so one benefit of having a mini course, even if it is free, is saying here's what I use to do this stuff and then putting affiliate links in it as well so you can make money without actually selling the course ever. So on my end, my goal for my mini course is to get a thousand people to go through it by the end of the year. I'm at 300 right now. But if you look, I mentioned that I use this headphones, these headphones. I'm pointing at the wrong thing. I mentioned I use teachable, I mentioned I use Mixmax, Loom, all these other tools. And I'll give you a link to what I use right now if you want to check it out. But hell, you don't have to ever sell a course. It could be free. You're just using it to express your knowledge, your zone of genius and saying if you want to do this as well, you can work with me one on one or in my group coaching program or you can buy this stuff as well. So just realize like this is just a powerful way to communicate your message to people in a very intimate medium.

It's such a win, win. I know Pat Flynn, I learned like he had a free podcasting course and it was filled with, it was very actionable. He didn't hold any information back. And all of his links, he's like, look, this is the stuff that I'm going to show you how to use. And you know, you can use my affiliate link. You don't have to, you can figure it out yourself. But what did I do? I clicked through every single one. Because it's also a great way to show your appreciation to the teacher if it's a free course. But yeah, people generate a pretty substantial amount of money depending on how many leads you have coming through. Just through that.

Great. And so Heather, I love this question. She's saying, I'm thinking about a model where people take the course in sections and then join a weekly call. So Heather, spot on with that because what you can do is focus on the three Cs. The first C is having a course, this on demand course, which is the core curriculum of your program. The other one is coaching, where you have one or two live weekly Q and A calls every week. But those questions will be so much more fruitful because they've already gone through the content. They just want more information. It's not basic stuff like what does this mean? It's like, can you explain deeper? Can you give me the example? And then, Heather, the third C is consulting. That's when you work one on one with some of these individuals and say, if you want my one on one attention, I'll help you build up this content, whatever it is, and then you charge more for that. But this course empowers you to have that model where they can just buy the course, they can buy the coaching model and they can also buy the consulting model as well. So I fully support that. I think it's a great idea.

I love that framework, the three Cs. Terry, we need to like, it's as if you have like a course coming up on this that we should do. It's so, but it's so great. And I think that also touches on, oh, I guess if it's the same, Heather, of the concern of devaluing your main business offering. It's like you have that progression. I love it.

Which is exactly what my coaching program is. So if anyone wants to get some information about that, it starts October 12th. Just gonna plug myself here, but let's, let's look at some more questions here because we are kind of running short on time. Yeah, pd, I noticed you raised your hand. If you have a question, please do put that in there. Question for Jess, she's saying, what do you. Or, sorry, Jeremy, saying what do you charge for beta launch?

Okay, great question. There's two options here. The first option is you have it completely free. So you offer people, hey, I'm giving you free access to this course in exchange for your feedback. What I would say though is that if you go down this route, ensure that people have to apply to be a beta launcher, they have to say like, how much time they'll dedicate, what they'll do at the end of it because you don't want people just to go through it for free. And then because they didn't pay any money, they don't actually do it. And then you, you don't have any testimonials, you don't have any feedback. So the second option is to have like a discounted price for your course, specifically for the beta launch. And the framing that you can have around this is like you're going to be a founding student, you're going to help craft this course. With me, I have the content, but your feedback will help shape what direction we go in with the content. So I would honestly, I think charging for your beta course is important also because if you can't get people to pay For a discounted amount, it's going to be very interesting to see what happens when you launch the full course at full price. So I think that charging, even if it is like 20 founding students, you're going to help craft this course with me. I have the content, but your feedback will help shape what direction we go in with the content. So I would honestly, I think charging for your beta course is important also, because if you can't get people to pay for a discounted amount, it's going to be very interesting to see what happens when you launch the full 5% of the full price of your course or less. As long as people are actually paying for it, you're going to get more engagement and they're going to be more likely to give feedback.

I mean, to piggyback on that. That's why the free course works too, because if they won't, they don't want it for free. That's tough, right? That's telling you this is maybe not the best idea and you want to make some tweaks to it. So. So what I've seen happen before is people would use like Instagram stories to say, hey, I'm thinking about creating your free course. What would you like to see from me? And just having people vote on that as well, because that we can better pre qualify your content course at full price.

So I think that charging, even if it is like 25% of the full price of your course or less, as long as people are actually paying before you create it.

Another thing which I didn't bring up before is delivering content via webinar first. And then you can make tweaks based on the feedback you get. Because on my end, I do about one webinar per week. I know when I'm bombing because I see the numbers go down in the number of attendance. So I'm like, all right, that wasn't good. And I know it's when it's going well because I get the feedback. So I would say before you record anything, you should do it live a few times because you'll get that feedback and the questions you get will help you create content. Because questions create content. If you're still getting questions after you talk for an hour, that means you need more content on it and you can put that in your course as well.

It's also a great way too, to get sales up front. There is this. It can be intimidating to have to sit down and record all of your courses and edit it and do all this stuff. And so, yeah, by doing A live course. I mean you're giving people value. You don't have to sit down and prep any content. Well, you have to prep content, but you don't have to record it. So yeah, it's a great way to get people in the door.

Absolutely. Question here. Can I have the contact information for the facilitator to get one on one for information? I'm not sure if talking about me or Jess, but my, my Instagram handles right in there. You can just message me. It's Terry Rice and Jess. I'm sure they can find you somewhere.

Mine's at Jessicator. For some reason I think we updated our zoom settings and my last name is felt wrong here. I'm like, interesting. It's C A T O R C. I can post it in here. That's just my Instagram.

Awesome. Cool. Another question is, do you have any live classes? What are the key differences between live or on demand? If that question's for me, yes, I do live classes. The key differentiation for me is I guess I'm not a stoic during live classes. It's got more of a spoke experience and again, that's okay. So let's talk about Teachable the platform more. So if you use Teachable, you can have your on demand course, but there's an easy button to upsell people to one on one coaching. You could literally say at the end of each section or a lesson, hey, if you have, you know, questions on this, push this button to book time with me. So Teachable just rolled out a coaching platform too. So going back to those three Cs that is talked about, it greatly behooves any of you if you have an online course to make it as easy as possible for anyone to get one on one help from you. And again, within the teachable platform, they just push a button and they're there. Your schedule is always preset. You can say, I have this availability. And you can also set up some kind of form where people have to answer questions before you say, yes, I will help you. Because if you can't help someone, there's no point in spending time with them. You don't want to take their money. And you can also better prepare for these conversations as well. Because if you're doing some kind of some kind of consulting call, you shouldn't ask basic questions like what's your URL or.com like that's annoying. So just pre qualify and get some upfront information first. So therefore you can further monetize your your course. And again, your Course could be free, but the upsell is giving you 300 bucks an hour for one on one coaching as well.

It was a game changer when we launched it. There's also like upsells that you can do. So when someone purchases one of your products and one click purchase to join coaching or like another course. But yeah, the coaching features that especially having it inside of your course, I think was a complete game changer.

I agree. Cool. So we got like what, four minutes left? Keep the questions coming. I think I have all of them. I'm not sure, but if not, I will just keep blabbing here. All right, so Jess, like just in regards to, again, like, you know, you launched this course, things are going okay. What did you do once it's already live to kind of keep the momentum going.

Yes. Okay, so I want to add like one thing into that. So let's say you've launched and you have your students. One of the biggest missed opportunities is contacting the people that didn't buy and finding out why. So even, even if you hit your goal and you're like, oh my gosh, I have 20 students or 2,000 students, there might be a lot of learning that you're missing out by not talking to the people who didn't buy. So something you can do and you can automate. This is after you go through a launch, send out an email to the people that didn't buy and be like, hey, I noticed you didn't join this program. I'm not going to try to sell you on anything. I'm always looking to improve my offerings and like how I communicate my products. I'd love to know why fill out the survey or just, you know, if you want to hop on the phone and again, you'll find things that maybe you didn't realize, maybe people who would have been a perfect fit for your course just didn't see that by the way that you communicated it. Maybe it was a pricing thing, maybe it was they didn't feel like they had enough time. Definitely go through that. But then as far as like keeping the momentum going, simple things you can do, sending out like weekly reminders, being like, hey, share your progress or hey, don't forget to go through this content. Also sharing success stories throughout the program. So, you know, especially like a quarter in, halfway in, you're gonna have people that kind of lose that excitement for going through the content. Sending out an email being like so and so was just like you, they came into this program, I mean, don't make it as Juicy as that. But you know what I mean, you know, they went through this program, they got this result, and look at what they're doing now. I really can't wait to share your success story on the other side of it. You know, start to think through, like, how can you motivate people to go through it and sharing those wins?

Yeah, I didn't think it was cheesy. I was writing it down. I think that was good. But, yeah, I mean, but yeah, no, you have to. You do have to say, like, look, I know this is tough, and for me, I like things when things are challenging but clear. Because then I know all I have to do is work harder than everyone else and I'll be successful. Cool. I'll do that. Right. So as long as it's not confusing and I know there's a clear outcome, I'm fine with that. So you being able to communicate that to people is better. Just having that emotional intelligence to know, like, wow, this part's kind of challenging. I'm going to jump in here and make sure that they get this encouragement that they need. So we got, what, a minute left. Jess, any closing thoughts again on how to create this course, how to launch it, how to scale it? Any other piece of advice you would give to our audience here?

Well, one, thank you so much for having me here. I would love to know also if this is how you have felt. But one of the most common things that people experience when they launch their first course is they're like, why didn't I do this sooner? You're going to learn so much about the progress, and you can't improve something that doesn't exist. You can't learn from something that hasn't happened. And I think it's so important to at least get something out there. And if you feel like your course is overwhelming, it's taking you too long, break it down. Create something smaller. Create a smaller outcome so you can actually get something out there. Because you're going to go through this and you're going to remember these words and you'll be like, man, I really could have done this sooner. I really could have just put that thing that I didn't feel was quite ready out because I didn't have a ring light in my videos or whatever it is. But don't hold yourself back because really, you cannot imagine the ripple effect that you will have by helping people get to outcomes and sharing your knowledge.

To your point about that, why did I do this sooner? It hit me. I actually felt regret. I was like, man, I should have done this years ago. But again, that's a useless emotion. Psychological, okay? Feel it, acknowledge it and move forward. And that's what I did. But yeah, I mean, the time to start is now, you know, because knowledge uninvested in labor is wasted. So if you went through this whole hour and you heard all this great information, you don't do anything afterwards. You didn't actually learn anything. Because when you learn something and you apply it, that's when you get the outcome. And you know, I went through this, this, this teachable based course on LinkedIn marketing that was just brilliant. Brilliant. But like during the session, the guy's like taking a drink of water. He's like, you know, readjusting his hat. There's like, you know, like roommates are walking by in the background. Didn't care. I didn't care at all because it was brilliant and it's helped me so much in regards to how I've been growing my LinkedIn presence and content. So again, like, perfection is the enemy of progress. Just get started. If you want to put some bells and whistles on it later, cool. But like, just get it out there. Beta launch, get that mvp, whatever it is and get some information to put this. Start expressing yourself to the world. Because when you get that feedback, it's great. It's great to get that real time feedback and then just realizing that all that effort you put into it was worth it because you're helping people.

For sure. That's so fun. I really want to check out this course now just for like the iconic roommate walking in the background.

Yeah, it was great. Cool. All right, well, I'll let you go. But everybody, thank you so much for joining again, love to hear that feedback. You can send a message to any of us on social share screenshots if you have them. I'd love to collect as well, but thank you very much and I hope to see you in the next event as well.

Awesome. Thank you.