How to Use Email, SMS for Marketing that Converts

Really what we're going to talk about today is how you can get more control over your audience data by getting them off of certain platforms and onto your email list on SMS and how to do that in an authentic way. But what I've realized is especially with social media, with algorithms changing and even like paid, which is, you know, traditionally the more like concrete way to reach your audience, if you don't have first party data for your audience, meaning email and phone number, you're in trouble. Because the stats escape me, the exact stats escape me. But I think conversion rates on Facebook have gone down by about 35% looking year over year, which is insane. And we're about to start losing more data from that platform as well as Google. So if you're not getting people off of social media and onto a platform you can actually control, you're in trouble. So I'm gonna kick things off momentarily. But just so you all know, I'm feeling a little bit under the weather today. So if I sound weird, that's why. It's not that I'm uninterested, it's just I'm a little, a little out of it. So hopefully you can push through here because I know it's a really important topic. But I'm gonna go ahead and ask you to introduce yourself just for those people who don't know you can get that familiar.

Yeah. Thank you so much. I appreciate that, Terry. My name is Chandelle Shand. I go by Inspired by Chandelle on Instagram from Toronto. As you all know now I love to travel and work remotely. As to why I'm currently at a co working space in Miami to take this interview, what I do professionally is I am the owner of a marketing agency. My marketing agency is called Marketing Creates. We are in our first year of our startup. So I have been a freelance marketer for four or five plus years and then of course gaining connections, building my network, finding people that I really align very well with and have great synergy. We decided to open up an agency and we were going really strong within our first year, which is really exciting. We specialize in email marketing and text message marketing. But of course everybody loves to be on social media so we always give a hand to our social media content lovers as well. But we always love to encourage like we're going to be talking about that healthy romance between text message marketing, email marketing as well as social media. Because it's hard to even get anybody off of social media until they realize the value of, you know, their email list and their text message list, then they might want to stop, you know, turning their wheels on social.

Awesome. So when people are in digital marketing, I'll use that broad, broad term. I always wonder how they got started. And for me it's because I worked at this appliance company in the Bronx and this is like back in 2005, and the owner went to some like random workshop over the weekend and he's like, hey, there's this new thing called SEO and if we write really good stuff on our website, we can show up higher on Yahoo searches. I'm like, this sounds cool. So I started doing that and started dabbling and then I left that company, went to another one and my other managers, like, there's this thing called search engine marketing and we can actually pay money to make our ads show up when people search for it. And I was doing digital marketing, trade show marketing, direct mail marketing.

Yeah.

And I thought with digital marketing, it's so much easier to measure the impact of what we're doing as compared to this other stuff and actually like it more. So that's, that's how I fell into it. But, but how about yourself?

How I fell into it? Well, my first business was a cleaning company and I did that quite successfully. I started when I was 24 and I'm about to turn 30. So I've been well versed in, you know, two time founder of businesses at this point. And how I got into marketing and digital marketing is I realized beyond, you know, just running a company, I loved the marketing aspect of running the cleaning company and just anything else that I had a hand in. I loved the marketing side of things and I love the Internet. You know, I'm a millennial. So I started picking up on different skills, whether that was copywriters or people that were for 50% of somebody's 30 day revenue. That's so powerful, you know, so instead of me just writing a headline, I like to see that 51%, you know, I'm, I basically compete with my clients sometimes as well. So because I know they're pushing on social media more so and I'm pushing on email and text more so a very good, healthy relationship that way. And so when I see myself at 51% for revenue directly correlated to email marketing and text message marketing, I'm like, yes, I'm beating you. And I show my clients that as well, saying like, step your game up. Just joking around all the time. So I just have a lot of fun in the space that I'm in. And I Think it's because I'm so good at it that it allows me to do it with ease. And I have a really good relationship with the people that I work with and stuff. So it makes it really fun.

I mean, a few things. One is, I think business owners turned marketers understand what's on the line. Right. If it doesn't work, someone can go out of business, someone can't make their pay rail someone is in trouble. So it's like you get internally what's going on with your clients more and, and yeah, and I think that natural evolution just makes it more, more authentic in many ways. And Matthew Bieber is charging, chiming in here. So Matthew, thanks for showing up here. He's saying, hey, very similar story. My experience, you know, we need a website. No. Yeah, we hired a company for SEO and we have this urchin thing. This is back in 2003. So that, that, that ascension from like the early days to where he's at now, where he's actually teaching digital marketing, which is pretty cool. But, but you also said, you know, it's, it's easy for you. And I think sometimes when we're experts, we don't understand how challenging can be for other people to even understand what we're doing and why it's important. So I just want to address this, this elephant that's often in the room, which is why do people obsess over social media followers, but they often neglect building their email list when, as we said earlier, it's much more challenging to reach people on social these days. But why do you still get that pushback?

Yeah, well, I think I get that pushback because of, if I'm being honest, like the whole vanity metrics thing.

Right.

People want to be popular. I'm not too sure why, because half of those people don't care about you on the Internet. You know, whether you get to a million followers or a thousand, like 900 of those thousand really don't care about you or what you have to offer. They just click the Let follow button because they seen one thing that you posted or who knows, maybe they seen you pop up on their search page. But that doesn't really get you to the end result of like, okay, this is really a person that wants what I have, you know, so look at those numbers. A thousand people following you, 100 of them maybe want what you have or be slightly interested. It's not a really good ratio. So for people to be wanting to achieve the million followers and stuff like that, I think it's Just based off of, like a psychology thing. The world we live in right now, especially with, like, influencers and content creators, even business owners, sometimes get stuck in that loop of, like, they need more followers, but I don't know what they're chasing after. I really don't know what the real answer is, but I think it's just the society we live in. Everybody wants to be somewhat Hollywood, even if they don't need to be. And the reality of that is, is if they took that energy and put it into, yes, they're social, but also with their email and their sms, then things will go a lot smoother for them. Because that same thousand people on an email list, like a different thousand people, I should say, on the email list, that's a thousand potential engaged subscribers versus 100 engaged followers. It's a completely different end result. Those people really want to hear from you on your email list. And I think the difference, as I'm talking, I'm just realizing the people on your email list want to hear from you. The people on social media, they just want to watch you. So I don't need people to just watch me. I need people that want to hear from me, you know, on the regular, and then reach out to me and want to speak to me more and stuff like that.

Right.

So, yes, we have DMS on social, but the DMs isn't doing what it needs to do.

You know, it's funny, I am. Years ago with Facebook, we used to be able to do what's called an audience overlap report. We have one audience, which might be your social media followers, and overlap that with people who've been to your website in the last six months. And remember one time I showed this to one of my clients, I'm like, you know, you have 300,000 followers on, I think it was Instagram or Facebook, but only 1% of them have been to your website in the last six months. And they're like, yeah. I'm like, isn't that where you sell stuff? So this is. This is not good. Right? So having that data was super beneficial because it just showed, like, how. I don't say useless, like, because cosmetically I get it.

Yeah.

Some even investors are still saying, how many followers do you have? Because they don't know, right? They don't have someone telling them, who cares? So that's what I used to ask people. I'm like, why do you want followers? Those are good. Why are they good? You know, and if you can tell me, look, because actually I had this One client who told me, look, we know their bs, but our investors keep on asking about this. Our partners keep on asking about this. I'm like, as long as we align on the fact that it's stupid, cool. Like, I'll help you with this, but. But otherwise, like, this is not a good look.

We're very aligned there. I hear that often. And I give quite a similar response as well. I'm like, all right, we can do it. I just want to let you know, like, the reality of the situation. But let's go for the followers and then we'll do everything else, you know? But I agree with you. 100. I've experienced that as well.

And Ryan Quinn's chiming in here saying, I think companies need to worry less about followers and more about customers. Yeah. And especially even, like after they become a customer. But I want to read this verbatim because your, your bio says you teach business owners about the healthy sales romance that's possible between social media, SMS and email. So tell me about this healthy romance. What does that look like?

Yes, I love the healthy romance. It's because it makes it healthy. Because I find that just social is really unhealthy. Really unhealthy. Just social. Instagram goes down, there goes our business.

Right.

So I consider just one platform being like almost close to none.

Right.

And so when you pair that with email and sms, one thing, a word I like to use or a phrase I like to use is catching sales in limbo. Catching customers in limbo.

Right.

Nurturing them while they're in limbo. And so what that means is, you know, while they're going along the customer journey, if it starts at social, we then want to get them to email. And then as we're emailing them, maybe we have their phone number as well. We can send them a text once in a blue moon. Or maybe you have a strategy where you're sending more frequently via text message because you know that text message is getting a huge open rate right now.

Right.

So finding a healthy balance. Because everybody thinks, okay, there's a million one platforms that they have to be on. Have to be on LinkedIn, tick tock, Instagram, oh my gosh, Facebook, everything.

Right?

So it's like crazy to add SMS and email. That's what most people would think. But we're all on these social media platforms, spreading ourselves thin when we could really focus on one or two social media platforms or wherever our main content creation is happening and our engaged audience is happening, but then really focus on funneling them to that email.

Right.

So that we're now contacting them directly and we have that customer data because as you said with ads and with email, actually they're being affected by privacy laws that have changed.

Right.

And I never go into the technical side of things, of the privacy laws that have changed because it's just going to confuse everybody. But quite simply, how we were able, how big companies were able to collect data in the past off of ads and emails, no longer we're not going to be able to do that like as you were saying. And it's only going to get tighter and tighter in terms of, you know, us being, us being prevented from collecting this information from, you know, the more traditional way of doing it that's been happening for the last, I don't know, 10 years plus that we've been agreeing on our phones to, you know, the terms and we haven't read any of the terms on any of the apps.

Right.

That we use. We just say, yeah, we want Instagram, Yeah, we want TikTok. And they've been using our data for so long, really to our detriment. And then so now what I love about this shift that's happening, a lot of people don't like it, but I love it because now we have to collect customer first data. Now we have to put our customers first. Whether we're using social, email or text, I think customers should always be first. And so the healthy romance isn't to spread everybody thin, but it's to really allow people to focus on what will actually get them results. Which I truly believe from my experience after several years is with email marketing, with is, which is text message marketing. Right now text message marketing has the highest open rates right now. And then of course we can't pull people off of social until they're ready to be pulled off of social. So I always try and navigate how much energy should you be putting into social.

Right.

And just allowing it to all flow. So it's really about figuring out that healthy romance for that specific person because I mean, I'm sure you can relate. We're not the type of people that will give people a one size fits all type solution. And so that healthy romance, it really has to be specific to a person of how much energy and time and money and effort content they put on each platform just based off what they're doing. So yeah, really, let's put it as a customized, healthy relationship with social, email and sms. But I really do see that as what drives results.

All right, so with sms, like I Get the open rates are higher, but how do you do it without being annoying? Because there's a lot of brands that I like and I buy from, but they text me like, hey, Terry, you know, buy something. I would say, buzz off, you know, so it's like, how does this work? I mean, what are you messaging? Are you saying buy this or is it informational? Like, what are you doing through SMS that makes people not get annoyed and just say, stop sending me stuff?

Yeah, that's a really good question. So I love to teach people the element of like a series. And what I mean by that is I've learned it from somebody else. So that is not my own personal strategy, but it's something that I find works really well, so I implement it. And by series I mean something very specific. So even for example, to use you as an example, you know, if I was going to sign up for really exclusive entrepreneur type information, right, I would want that. So if you launched a series of like entrepreneur specific tips, right, Leveraging skills you already have. I read one of your headlines the other day, so leveraging skills you already have. If you did a series on that. And I wanted to leverage the skills that I already have. No matter how many text messages you send me, I gave you an easy yes to opt into that. So I call it an easy yes. So as long as you're really offering something that's going to give somebody an easy ass, and then the type of content you're delivering is as promised and what you had told them to expect, and then maybe you ask permission to sell, right? So maybe before you sell, you're sending, you know, motivation, your tips, you're this, you're that, the all of the leveraging your skills and then maybe the next message you send is, hey, I'm going to start promoting one of my classes soon. If you don't want any promotional texts, opt out. Or actually just send me, don't send me sales text. Like there's a lot of keywords you can use with text message so you can get a little strategic with what keywords people send you back. And maybe now you're segmenting, so segmenting being audiences into specific lists. So instead of all subscribers, you're going to have all subscribers and you're going to have subscribers that don't want promo text. You're going to have the subscribers that signed up to that series and they want that series. And then you're going to have the people that said, yeah, they want the sale, they didn't opt out, they want the promotion.

Right.

So you've really nurtured them and prepared them and give, actually given them a chance to say yes or no to you without you even selling out the gate. And then of course, getting those people not opt out is great because you've given them the option. People might feel really good about that, that you put them in the driver's seat.

Right.

And so it might convert. Well, I don't want to say it might convert. I know it will convert a lot higher, giving, you know, the consumer that type of decision making power.

Awesome. So I have a question, but I want to ask the audience question first too. Have you opted into a brand's SMS sequence before and what made you want to do it? Just out of curiosity. So what from what you're hearing, Like, I've found this way to make it not annoying now because I remember a couple of years ago I had this like free online course. It was like how to like come with your business idea in seven days. Let's pretend that's what it is.

Yeah.

And I did it through a platform where you would get one email per day with a lesson.

Yeah.

What I realized is the open rate on day one was like 80%. Then it stayed around 60% for the rest of the week. And I was like, well, shoot, nearly half these people aren't making it to the end of the week. But if I had done that through sms, it would have worked. Right. So I think that's one good way we can do it. Like whatever you do, whatever your zone of genius is, here's five ways to do this over the next week. Here's this challenge xyz and then tease it out. And on the back end it's like, hey, if you want to do this going forward, click here. Penny. Right. So what is a tool that someone can use for this? Because obviously you're not doing it manually. What are some tools that you suggest someone would use to do this?

Yes. Do not do it manually. That is a lot of layers labor. So there I'll give a couple of options. I do have my favorites. So when it comes to just text message marketing, something that I would Recommend would be community.com that's www.community.com. i'm not affiliated, so this is not a plug. But it is something that I was when as soon as I seen SMS marketing, which I actually discovered it from Gary Vee. Gary Vee was one of the first people that really hopped on SMS marketing. He was sending all of the motivational messages. I think now he's moved into the world of like NFTs and that whole web3 space. So I think he's promoting that now through text message marketing. But at first it was simply if you like my content on social media, you should probably sign up to my text list because I just got this text list and you're gonna be the first one on it and people like to be the first ones on things. So I signed up to his text list just to see what it was. I hadn't been on anybody else's text list but before and I think this was probably four years ago, maybe three, four years ago. He had launched it whenever Community launched because at the time Community actually was private. You weren't even able to just sign up like a regular software. You actually had to wait. I waited probably about six, seven months for them to give me an account. I'm sure Gary Vee got it faster than me. He probably wasn't on the wait list. But I had to wait on the wait list and I waited and it was really good for me. I loved the platform. I actually didn't use it for myself. I used it for clients and it worked great for them. And then I eventually used it for myself because it was so easy to function. You know when people say they're not good at tech, sms, something like community messaging, easy for you to use, it's no brainer. Anybody could use it. And then on top of it. I like Klaviyo. Klaviyo.com I am a partner with Klaviyo. Do not get paid for this plug but I recommend Plug. I recommend Klaviyo as the number one software if you're looking to use text message marketing as well as email marketing. I like their dashboard, their overall view of everything that's happening. You can see where each cent is coming in from and you know, if you're anything like me that like to, you know, count the coins, then you'll love Klaviyo because you can see where all the money is funneling in from. So you know where to put your energy. Right. What's working and what's not makes it very clear. Klaviyo is more dominant to e commerce brands. However, you can very much so use it for a service provider especially if you're really looking for that data driven information. Of course a service provider, their emails are just going to look a little bit different than like fashion novas, you know?

Yeah, yeah. Have you ever thought of making like, like a seven day course on how to use SMS to you make Money or whatever, but deliver the course to sms. So you're like showing examples like why you're using the actual medium.

Terry, I've thought of a lot of ideas, a lot of ideas. We just need more time in the world or what are we supposed to say? Instead of we need more time in the world, we got to make time for the things that we love and want to do. But definitely, I've thought about, you know, definitely text message marketing. If I were to do something where I was launching something right now, it would be through text message marketing. And I, I actually one strategy that I thought of is, and I'd seen somebody use it before and it kind of changed it around a little bit to kind of suit my needs a little bit better. But they had done a master class and they promoted it on social. And when you attended that master class, during that master class, you, they had said, to qualify for my next masterclass, you have to text this number and fill out the application. So while we were alive, you know, Terry, you're like, okay, text this number to see if you qualify for tomorrow's free class. It's going to be a upgraded class, more specific information. But it's only for people who really qualify because if you're not at that stage of business, it might not be good for you, right? And the person was like, well, I'll tell you why you don't qualify if you text the number. So no matter who texted the number, whether you got in or didn't, she got the, the numbers from all of us and turn some of us away, let some of us go into the program the next day. And so on that very first class, they didn't sell, they only taught. And it was one of the most valuable workshops that I had ever attended. And so after that workshop, when they said text the number and everybody texted, you got into the next class. The next day, we went into the next class all together again. And that's where, you know, the pitch kind of came in and expectingly so, you know, they had said that they are going to pitch at the end. So I'm a fan of people that always prepare for that pitch. I think it's sketchy when they don't share that they're going to be pitching by the end of it. But I really liked how they were able to do that. And I think it's important to mention that they at the time had a following on social media, on Instagram, of 500 people. 500 people on social media. I'm a person that has 5,000 numbers, you know, are just vanity metrics, like we're saying. But if we're talking followings here, somebody with 5,000, you know, shouldn't be buying from somebody with 500 or whatever way people look at it, you know, you shouldn't be learning from somebody with 500. That's how sometimes people look at it. But for me, I loved the information most valuable masterclass I had ever been in because we all know we've probably signed up for a million masterclasses online. So it was so valuable, $49. So very easy. Yes. To opt in. She got my, my email from signing up. She got my text, my phone number right from signing up. I attended her masterclass from that. I did consider going into her program. And the program was not low ticket with that 500 following. She's very bold because I think sometimes a lot of people think, oh, well, I don't have 5,000 followers. I can't charge $10,000. People aren't going to take me seriously. And unfortunately, that's just some people's mindset. But yeah, they had a $10,000 offer at the end of all of that, and I think it was rightfully so. I was very close to opting into that, but I think, you know, my everything just aligned differently for me at the time. Just going in a different direction. But very good information. I would highly recommend implementing something like that where you can go through the customer journey and collect all that information. And whether they opt into the final conversion or not.

Right.

I'm still following them. They might get me a second time or third time over.

Yeah, I forgot this guy that I know, Mike Koenigs, he has this book called Money Phone where he teaches you how to form sequences. So like, while you're on stage, you might say, hey, scan, like right now, if you look at the lower left hand corner is a QR code for my services. He would have a sequence like push 1 if you care about this, 2 if you care about that. And it would guide them towards an offer. So yeah, I mean, building these things out in advance obviously is necessary, but it makes sense. And one thing you kept on saying earlier was customer first, customer first. And I'm just curious, can you give us your operational definition of what customer first means? Because if we have all this first party information and we can text them whenever we want, we can email them whenever we want. Like I said, how do we not be annoying? And I guess customer service first is the response to that. But what does it actually mean to you? And how can we do that ourselves?

Yeah, great question. I mean, in the simplest way, it's all about knowing your customer, not thinking we know our customer, but knowing our customer. So it's being able to ask our customer certain questions and allow them to actually give us that answer versus us just creating an avatar of what we think they want or what we, you know, where we think they hang out at and all of those different things.

Right.

So it's as simple as asking people, where do you spend your Friday nights? If that's relevant to your brand.

Right.

Is it a per. Do? Do you have customers that are at home watching Netflix on a Friday, or do you have customers that are partying hard? They're not going to be at their computers or their phones all night on a Friday. They're out at a club.

Right.

So, you know, there's a million one examples that I could give, but it's all about understanding, right, from, you know, the horse's mouth or whatever, what they love, where they click on your website, how long they spend on your website. Some of this information we don't even need to ask. Some of it we could check from the back end of our software is whatever, you know, CRM or whatever website you're using and things like that. You can see certain information, you know, how long does it take your customer to buy from when they first find you, and stuff like that. So it's all about putting the customer first by really understanding their behavior, their desires, like what they do in their day, but not guessing, no guessing. It's asking them because they will probably gladly tell you so you actually don't annoy them. And it's such a better relationship that way.

Right?

So, yeah, putting customer first is simply finding out as much information as possible, whether it's by asking or whether it's by really analyzing what's happened, you know, for so long on your. On your back end of your website or your CRM and things like that, but really gathering that data so that you can put them at the forefront of all of your decisions?

Yeah, and one of the easiest ways to do that is through social listing. I was in Seattle a couple weeks ago at Amazon talking to all these founders about how they could use social listening to learn more about their audience. And one of them had an app that helped people more or less generate more revenue for their barber shop. So we went on a Reddit and then went to the subreddit for Barbershop. And there are people saying like, look, I love my barber, but it takes Forever to get it cut. I've even gone to a different barber. I didn't like as much because they weren't good, but the line was shorter. So like we use as an example saying like, look, here's the money you're losing by not having a way for them to make appointments and like right out of their mouth is exactly what they're saying. So for anyone who hasn't done like any kind of surveying or research, one of the easiest ways to do so is through social listening because it's free and it's accessible and you can learn a lot from it. But one thing I do want to ask though is like, okay, we're saying, look, you know, social media is not the move anymore. But what are some of the best ways to get people off of social media and then onto your email list or your sms? Like what are some, some tactics that have worked for you? You?

Yeah. From a service provider standpoint, I definitely recommend the series idea that I was talking about. I find that it's working a lot better than you know, the average newsletter. But depending on your audience, I mean a lot of agencies send out a newsletter and for example like Marketing Brew, I sign up for that email newsletter and it's very old school newsletter style, but the information is great. So I love to open it, I love to receive it. I think they send me an email once a day, right? So I think five emails a week and I still haven't unsubscribed for years. But when it comes to service providers, I would recommend the series so something very specific that's going to give people an easy yes to want to give you their information. So I always tell all my clients or anybody that I speak to or mentor is to really think about what that easy yes is. And if you can't figure it out, you need to ask a couple of your potential ideal clients so that they could tell you exactly what that easy yes would be. I take all the guesswork out. Market research is definitely my best friend here. And then when it comes to e commerce brands, you know, there's the simple 10% off pop up discounts, there's the refer a friend. I love the refer a friend idea even from a service based standpoint because it's like, hey, if you sign up for my email list today, I'm going to give you 500 off of my retreat or my con, my summit or something. And what you can do is if you refer the friends, they could get 500 off as well. So if that's two friends saving a thousand dollars, you now have two customers coming to your event and both of them are saving 500 bucks. That's an easy yes if they want to come to your event. So not to super discount things, but there's all sorts of different ways that you can leverage these easy yes ideas, whether you're a service provider or E commerce founder. But really focus on what that easy yes would be to get them onto your email list. And if you can't think of it, don't guess. Just ask a couple people that are potentially your ideal clients. Maybe you could give them something as a bonus for helping you out, figure out what that should be. But. And then ultimately test, test everything. I wouldn't be a marketer if I didn't include that at the end. So everything that I'm saying is, you know, subject to testing, right? I don't know everybody's business that's watching this. So they definitely want to test a couple of the strategies out. So maybe two easy yeses would be better to start out with, you know, and test both options. Test. And don't test them at the same time. Test one in September, test one in October so that you could actually see what the results from each of them were. Or if you do have some kind of software or something that can separate those type of results, then by all means do them at the same time. But I always recommend making sure that you're testing things separate from one another so you could really see what differences those things made.

You make a good point in regards to like looking at your actual data, you know, if you have any. And I remember this one time one of my clients was thinking about doing some stuff with mobile and then we looked at their website and we saw like 17% of their traffic was mobile. I'm like, it seems like you're not a mobile audience right now. So we can try SMS and I think they want to do messaging like Facebook messenger ads. I'm like, we can try that. But it doesn't really look like your audience is using mobile to go to your website. And there's a very small percent of traffic coming to your website from mobile. Seems like your audience is not on mobile, right? So it's like you can kind of pre qualify whether it's a good idea or not and still test. I mean that's, that's how you learn. But, but I know you've done a lot of tests and I'm wondering if you can share like just like almost like a mini case study. You don't just say like the names of companies but one of your, one of your clients that's used SMS to their advantage and gotten some good results from and I know you like competing with your clients so I'd love to hear how maybe that did versus some of the things we're doing before so we can kind of wrap our heads around the opportunity.

Yeah. So I always like to look at SMS because I'm very dominant with email. So I will make the most money from email no matter what I do. I think it's just how much words I can put into an email, how many visuals I can put into an email. So I could really portray like a whole vision and really bring people in to want to buy whatever it is that I'm selling with a text message is a little bit shorter so there's like I don't know, 30 words that you get to use so it will convert. However, I find that a lot of the money really comes from the email still but the nurturing and some money, the, the sales in limbo come from text messages. So that's why I said has to be a healthy relationship because I don't want to steer people down the wrong path and then they think SMS is going to be the end all, be all and you know, email maybe wasn't going to work out so much for them. So I recommend pairing the two. I do want to say though, SMS is the best for when people don't open your email you can trigger a text message to go half an hour later and now I might not have opened your email but I will now open your text and so that's where that text will probably get that conversion now and that money gets there. But not everybody gets to that text.

Right.

Some people convert at the email so that's why I might not see it reflect in the text messages because I've already done my job further in the up, higher in the funnel. So that's why it's a healthy relationship because no matter where people are coming from before they just kind of fall flat and ghost us, we're catching them as much as we can until they do ghost us for the time being. But one of the best things that I've done results that I've seen for text message marketing would be new releases. I'm a really big fan of, you know, launching things whether it's a service, event or product. I do love e commerce so I love to launch products specifically and I find that the more you're able to give that build up to let People know something's coming to really engage the community with, you know, the social media stickers and stuff like that just build a lot of hype. In short, I find that building that hype and then launching that through email and launching that through text message, those results, if you've done your job over the course of like anywhere between two and six weeks of nurturing and teasing and getting people to really wonder like, what is coming, what is coming? You know, it's like kind of like when Beyonce wants to make new music or something, you know, or anybody that doesn't make new music, everybody's waiting on Rihanna's new music, you know, so we've been nurtured and waiting for so long, so long, so long so that when she does drop that, we're ready for it, you know, So I find that that period of waiting and that period of nurturing and teasing and us just wanting it by time, we get it, we just want it. So in those moments I can see numbers go through the roof and those are the most impressive numbers. I find people try and launch things to willy nilly and stuff like that if they just really prepared and focused on, okay, how can I get the best result possible? By taking this the slow, easy way, really strategically, okay, I'm gonna pair my social with my email with my sms so when people are falling through that journey, we can catch them and we can convert them. So you're gonna have the most amount of revenue possible. Because we're hitting them on all different angles and they've already said that they wanted it. They've been engaging with us for so long. If we say, oh, we're releasing a new shirt and they are more saying, what colors is it? What colors do you want? They're like, oh, it's purple, is it going to be red? Is it going to be blue? And it seems silly, but they love to reply, blue, blue, blue. I want blue. Like they want to let us know what they want. And even if we don't release blue and we release purple and white, like they still love the fact that there's something new released and they're gonna buy it anyways.

You make a good point in regards to maybe email or sorry, maybe text is not getting the conversion, but it's nurturing. So if you're using klaviyo for both email and text, you can see that more or less the, the attribution, right, between if you didn't do text versus if you did and get a clear understanding. So I love that. Let's Grab this question though from higher.

Conversion off of SMS though, just straight sms, I think no, wherever you put your energy towards, you know, potentially it's going to be successful.

Right.

So I would like to correct myself and say though, if somebody is putting all their eggs in one basket of SMS and it's been really working well for them, that's definitely the route that they have to take is how can they elevate that text message marketing strategy and really focus on that?

Right, yeah, no, I, I dig it. I mean, I think, yeah, if it's working, it's working. Right, so that's what, that's the benefit data. But yeah, we. Great question here from, from Ayanna and she's saying do you have any experience where the email and SMS together, together concept works well for non profits?

Yeah, actually the last time I was in Florida, actually I was with a non profit, they were doing a summit and at the time they did not sell tickets through email or text message marketing. But this time around they're using email and text message marketing to sell out the event. So, you know, it's kind of like when you know better, you do better. So now that they know, oh wow, we have access to Chandelle, that knows text message, that knows email. They're non for profit now. They're leaning into that to sell retreat tickets. It's an event, a summit retreat. I don't know, they're all kind of.

The same thing, but so moral stories, it works. So thank you for asking that, Ayan, and I'm glad that it works and you can try it out too. So if you have any other questions, please do bring them up. We're going to wrap things up shortly. But I do want to ask you one more question before getting a better understanding how folks can get ahead of you or sorry, a hold of you. So you use the term healthy romance between sales media, sms. Sorry, between social media, SMS and email. Why don't use the term integration? Because we hear integrated marketing all the time. You say romance as opposed to integration. Is there a reason for that?

I love that you asked me that. So I, because I love copy, I love to write, I consider myself a wordsmith. So I just find it to be way catchier than, you know, saying integrating and all that stuff. It's just my way of putting a space spin on it pretty much. But in all honesty, the romance part is because I get to see the numbers on the back end all, every single day, every single week. Sometimes I can send emails and text messages. They're Automated. So I'll set them for like a Friday and a Sunday and then I won't check it till Monday or Tuesday. And once I look, I'm like, my heart eyes are going. I'm like, this is beautiful. This is amazing. And even though it's not my revenue, it's my client's revenue, I'm still very, very pleased. It's like the healthiest, most romantic situation ever once you see the end result in front of you. And when you have really happy clients, they're doing hard eyes as well. They're in the same romance. It's a great relationship.

I dig that. Yeah, that's a cool way to think about it. All right, so where can folks learn more about you? First of all, like, what services do you offer? How can you help them? Be great.

Yeah, of. So for the fourth quarter, I do have something coming called position your product. So if you are e commerce based brands. I am specializing in E commerce for the fourth quarter, more dominantly. So if you are a service provider, I'm sorry, there might be some things on my page soon. You could always book a consultation with me, of course. But when it comes to my programs in the fourth quarter, I'm focusing on E commerce to really make sure that the holiday marketing goes really well. So things like Cyber Month. So if anybody here has been worried about what are they going to do for their Cyber Month sales, that they have an E commerce brand, then I'm really looking to put those people in a position to win because there's so much money left on the table for holiday marketing, especially with people with products because everybody loves to fill under the tree and gift and stuff like that and get those discounts for Cyber Month and not necessarily discounts, but we could also offer bonuses. So there's a lot of ways to leverage your e commerce brands through the holiday marketing months and that's something that I love to do. So I'll be putting everybody in a position to win for that. You can always book a consultation with me. Like I said, My website is www.marketingcreates.com and I'm also very easy going. So I don't mind if anybody slides in my dm. I do. Full permission to have a quick chat with me in my dm.

Awesome. Cyber Month. When I was a kid it was Cyber Monday or it's like Cyber Week and now it's Cyber Month. All right, I'm glad you got that because I'm getting longer and longer profit.

Before, during and after Cyber Monday. Cyber Friday. That's my goal. So we're gonna, we're gonna do the whole thing. We're not just doing a Monday and a Friday. We want to make money all month and the months before and after.

Yeah. You know, it's funny, like, we're never talking about it. I saw some stat that said, like, maybe like 12% of holiday spend actually happened after the holidays. So it's like, get that money right? So hook up with $10. Show she'll teach you how to do so. But this has been great. So thank you very much for your time, everyone. Thanks for attending. Please do follow her. If you have any questions, go ahead and keep on them going here in this thread. We'll come back and look at it. But again, thanks for this.

Thank you. It's been great. Thanks so much for having me.