How You Can Fail Forward To Find Success With Quentin Michael Allums

What happens if I just devote myself to this for a hundred hours? Can I build anything that I want in my brain? Like things like that, right? Like just adjusting our relationship with it and giving yourself permission to fail. But I also think the things that we're doing sometimes just aren't challenging enough. That's a big thing for me. Like, I need to be challenged. Can I go from zero to a million? Not zero to 500k, not zero to 10,000 because I've done those things. Can I go zero to a million? That's challenging for me. It's exciting for me. It's something that I actually want to do. I think the more we love something, the more we want to do something, the more likely we are to be okay with that failure, you know, because it's. It's enjoyable and the reward at the end is going to be worth the risk.

Today we're joined by Quentin Alums, a creator who experiments on himself so you can learn from his failures and make more money. This is the launch your business podcast because we know starting a business is challenging, but it doesn't have to be confusing. Each week we'll give you the tactical advice and the necessary tools to scale your business without feeling burnt out. I'm Terry Rice, business development consultant and staff writer here at Entrepreneur magazine. Let's dive in. Years ago, I was at a conference and one of the speakers said something so powerful it stuck with me ever since. She shared a lesson from her father, and at the time, he was encouraging her to be bold and pursue meaningful goals. In one incident, she was afraid to ask a large corporation if they want to use her services. Her father told her, if you ask, the answer will be yes or no. If you don't ask, the answer will definitely be no. And ever since then, I have never been afraid to hear the word no, because that's where I was already starting from. Things could only improve if I asked, so I had nothing to lose. Today we're chatting with Quentin Alums, a creator who's partnered with brands and people including Lewis howes, Shay Rowbottom, LinkedIn, Snapchat, Heineken, and more. And what I really like about Quentin is his willingness to openly share his revenue generation strategies even when they fail. But fortunately, he also shares how he pivots to find success so you can avoid the same mistakes. Today, he'll discuss how to adjust your relationship with failure by turning everything into an experiment, why you need accountability to set and achieve meaningful goals, and how to create systems that help you consistently generate revenue. Quentin, I'm glad to have you here today.

I'm geeked, man. I'm geeked.

I obviously know who you are, but for those who don't, do you mind introducing yourself?

Yeah. I am Quentin Michael and I run social and business experiments.

So your brand is largely built on running experiments around content and even business process. So where did this love for experimentation come from?

Honestly, I don't know if anyone's ever asked me that. Honestly, it's come from my terrible relationship with failure. I was a singer songwriter back in the day, and I was creating content before content was a word, like YouTube videos. I would spend my time on writer forums, things like that. But as a musician, I found that, like, if I was ever practicing around people, I would only ever practice songs that I was good at, and I would keep practicing those same songs, but I would never let anyone see me fail or anyone see me mess up. And that held me back a lot because I was only ever playing the same songs. That theme, that thread carried on throughout other areas of my life, and it wasn't until, like, later, much later in, like, my professional career, where I was like, okay, like, this is really holding me back. Like, I'm just gonna learn how I learn. Like, this is how I think about things. This is how I do things. Like, let's just turn everything into an experiment. And I started to have a lot of fun, dude. Like, can I make $10,000 on this. This digital product? You know, like, what happens if we put these people in the room and we talk about X, Y, and Z? Like, just cool things like that. But I just also learn that way, whether I'm learning a snowboard or golf or basketball, like, whatever it is, you know, the experimentation is just very much aligned with how I like to learn.

Yeah, I've noticed when you can learn how you learn, it's easier to learn new things. Right. And for me, it's. It's three things. It's the actions, tools, and mindset. What are those three things I need in any new endeavor? And once I can identify those, I can move forward. But I have a framework that I can repeat over and over again. But on your end, I'm curious. So you're going through all these experiments and having, you know, these. These failures and learning from it. Why do you think a lot of people have an uncomfortable relationship with failure? And how can they push through that challenge?

Honestly, like, failing is not fun. Like, it's not cool to, yo, you got an F on this test. You know, like, or, damn, you Missed a game winning shot, right? Like you, you missed a, a, A putt from an inch away. You know, like, failing is not fun. And also, just like, as a society, I don't think it's something that we really celebrate. But, like, there's so many lessons and failures. Like, I'm doing this zero to one million dollar challenge right now or experiment right now. I have failed so much, you know, like, but from that, I learned a lot. And then I know, okay, like, what if we change this? If we do this, what. What then happens? And I think really just adjusting your relationship with it and giving yourself permission to fall, giving yourself permission to fail. The more you do that, the more you're going to succeed long term. And I, I'm not perfect at it, you know, Like, I've been trying to, like, really just get good at 3D modeling for a long time. And I always quit. I always quit, you know, because that relationship with failure, like, I'm. It's not the best still. And it's why I push myself. Okay, if we turn this into an experiment, like, what happens if I just devote myself to this for a hundred hours? Can I build anything that I want in my brain? Like, things like that, right? Like just adjusting our relationship with it and giving yourself permission to fail. But I also think the things that we're doing sometimes just aren't challenging enough. That's a big thing for me. Like, I need to be challenged. Can I go from zero to a million? Not zero to 500k, not zero to 10,000 because I've done those things. Can I go zero to a million? That's challenging for me. It's exciting for me. It's something that I actually want to do. I think the more we love something, the more we want to do something, the more likely we are to be okay with that failure. Know, because it's, it's enjoyable and the reward at the end is going to be worth the risk.

What you're sharing is almost like an idealized version of someone who has a growth mindset and how they apply that to their, their work and 3D modeling and golf and basketball and singing and on all the other things you're doing that that are amazing. But can you go deeper into this zero to $1 million challenge? Because again, one reason why I admire you is you just so publicly build and sometimes fail, but you share the key takeaways. You're learning.

Most of the time, I fail.

Well, I mean, you only got to be right once, right? And there you go. But what Gave you the idea for this zero to $1 million challenge and what are, what are the guidelines that you've set out for yourself? Because it sounds like that's very important for you too, to have solid guidelines, you know, $100,000, a million dollars, 100 hours to do it. What does this look like for you in regards to this? This. I don't say a challenge, this experiment.

Yeah. So two years ago I was running agency, video and personal branding was really our focus. And then we closed it down during COVID and then from there I just kind of drifted. Saw my co founders, like know exactly what they wanted to do. All were crushing it. And then there was me. I was like, yo, like, this is my life, this is what I wanted to do. I had no idea what I wanted to do now. So I drifted and then I launched an interview show. Lewis Howes was my first guest. That eventually led me to leading the marketing team there. But another guest that I had, and this was during the time that I was at greatness. Lewis Howes team and his name was Jay Sammit. And what he did was he wrote a best selling book and someone wrote in to him after that book and they're like, yo, I don't think anyone can be success or everyone can be successful. Like, I think there's a lot of different variables there. Something like that. And he was like, okay, like let me run an experiment. So he had this very specific guidelines of a person that was starting from zero, like didn't have a good background, things like that. Right. And he finds this person after searching and he doesn't give him anything outside of pizza and knowledge. Like no contacts, no money, no nothing. Just knowledge and pizza when they meet. And this person he helps become, I wouldn't say a millionaire, but a million dollars in revenue I believe is what they were trying to do. But he did that in less than a year. And I was interviewing him and I was like, this is so dope. Like what am I doing with my life? You know? Like, I have made so many other people successful, helped build so many other brands, but not myself, not my own. Never really fully devoted that time to myself. So that was like a huge inspiration for me. Um, and then there was another guy that did something similar on TikTok that I was like, yeah, this is cool, I like this. But fast forward like 10 months to year, I move on from that job and just decide I'm gonna focus on myself, my experiments and my mental health, my health, things like that. And I was talking to my Buddy, in my balcony, I was like, yo, like, I'm thinking of doing this thing, like, 0 to 500k. And then my criteria then was like, I'm only gonna work 20 hours a week. But then I just kept finding, like, I was so bored, like, not doing anything, just sitting around playing video games, working a little bit here and there. I was like, okay, what can I do? I. He pushed me to push it to a million, so I push it to a mil. But the reason I'm doing it publicly, one, because I want people to be able to replicate and improve upon my results. There's a lot of people that are way smarter than me. I'm good at very specific things, but also too, like, I just. I need that accountability and I need that challenge because I get bored so easily. If I didn't have that, I just. I know I would quit. I need to. I need to be on the stage. I need to be front and center. I need people looking at me. I need people to be like, yo, like, that's dumb. Q, try this. You know, like, I just, I need that in order to keep going sometimes for certain things.

One thing that you said that stood out to me is you spent a lot of your career helping other people make a lot of money. And I think a lot of our listeners can resonate with that because they've worked a 9 to 5 at some huge corporation, and they're making millions of dollars for the company, but not for themselves. And I actually felt the same way when I worked at Facebook and Adobe. And one of my mentors said to me, he's like, I don't get digital marketers because you guys make all this money for other people. Why don't you have your own service or product that you're selling as well, use that same skill to help yourself and your family. So that really stuck with me. And it sounds like you're. You are at the same spot. But I think as more people arrive there, especially post 2020 and working from home, we'll see more people exit the workforce. But then again, there's that fear they have of failure, which you've. You've clearly mastered. So what I think will be great, just to unpack that a bit, is if you don't mind sharing a recent example of failure, maybe with this zero to $1 million experiment, as well as what you learn from it.

Yeah, first I want to say, like, the fear of failure, entrepreneurship and most things, like, it's valid. Like, it's scary. Like, I'm. I'm not Even gonna front. Like, back in the day. Like, I. My power was turned off multiple times. Like, I, like, was sleeping on my office floor because I didn't have an apartment at time. I was homeless. Like, Like, I wasn't able to eat. Like, I. Me and my dog were basically eating the same food. I would make rice and chicken all the time. Like, that's what we ate. Like, the fear there is valid. Like, and I wouldn't ignore that, because if you don't have certain things and maybe you have a family, maybe you have taken care of someone, that's sick. Like, there's a lot of different variables there. Like, take care of you first. Nothing wrong with working a job. Nothing wrong with having a side hustle. I thought there was something wrong with that. And I. I did it the hard way. It worked out, but I did it the hard way. So there's that. But a recent example of failure, I would say the first. The first month that I was doing this challenge, first week, week one, I planned. I just spent planning, outlining, and putting final touches on, like, a digital product that I was kind of going to sell but not really focus on. And I. This plan, I was so excited. I was like, this is dope. This offer is sick. Like, this is going to help me go from X to Y to Z. Then week two, I spent selling, and there were people interested, but I didn't sell anything. I didn't make any money. I was so mad. I was like, yo, this is so stupid. And then I thought to myself, I was like, okay, like, if I do this, if I change this, then that will happen. So I have this hypothesis, if I do this, and that will happen. Essentially what it was is I changed, like, the focus of this offer. Kept pretty much everything the same, but I changed, like, two variables of this thing. And then third week, I made 23,000, like, $970 just in that third week from those changes. Direct, like, correlation from those changes. Like that. Typically, you'd look at something like, damn, like, this doesn't work. Let's do something else. But if I do this, then that will happen. It's always a question that I'm asking if I can change one thing, maybe two things, if it makes sense, but for the most part, one variable. Because then you can say like this, If I do this, then that happens. That's how I look at everything. If I'm falling on my face on snowboard, if I lead back, okay, what is that going to do? Oh, I shouldn't do that, right?

All right. So you got this scientific method that you're using here for business. I dig it. I dig it. I mean, you're a nerd, but you do cool stuff. So you're applying your nerdy in a constructive way. Okay, we're going to take a quick break here, but when we come back, Quentin will share the systems you need to consistently generate revenue and four lessons he wish he learned earlier in his career. So stick around for that, because he's going to help you save a lot of time, make money, and avoid frustration. Just get started. If you've ever looked for tips on launching a business, just get started seems to come up a lot, and while that's vaguely motivational, it does not provide any real direction. Because the next logical question for anyone would be, well, how do I get started? What specifically should I do? Well, if you're looking to quickly start a business without the confusion, risk and pressure of doing something entirely new, I've got a solution for you. It's called the Solopreneur's Fast Track. A step by step process on how to start a business using the skills you already have and actually enjoy using. So let's say your favorite part of a previous job was email marketing. You'll learn how to start a business offering other companies advice on how they can improve their email marketing. Or maybe you are really good at integrating complicated tech tools. You can help other organizations do the same thing without the need to bring on a full time hire. So the main point here is that everything you need to start a business is already within you. You don't need a cool website or fancy tools. And by completing the course, you'll also discover a simpler approach for attracting clients without using complicated funnels or cheesy sales tactics. You can finish it over a weekend and start making money in as little as 30 days. You'll gain the clarity and confidence you need to start your business and receive a one page business plan so you can immediately apply what you've learned. Get started today and receive a 20% discount by heading to terryrice co. Fast. That's terryrice co. Fast. I looked at your LinkedIn profile before we chatted and it says you help creators scale by systematizing their business and content. So let's focus on the content part. What are some things we can systematize in regards to creating content that makes us $24,000 in a week like you did?

Yeah, dude, it's, that's, that's a loaded question because there's a lot of things, but I'll Tell you what's important for me. One is organization with just all the footage, all the content that I've shot over the years. So like I have a database. If I type in misfits, Misfit era, right? Like, which is. It was a. That's what people called me with the company that I was building. That's what they called us. They called us the misfits. That was like 2018 to 2020. If I type that in, all the content that I've created will pop in. If I type in pre misfits, all the stuff that I created before that, or like speaking engagements, podcasts, meetings, like, all that's organized for me so I can just find things. But more importantly, with my content system, I can outline a YouTube video, let's say, but then say, hey, here's the video for this part of the B roll that you need. Or here's this. And it's all organized and structured. That's very, very important for me, just for everything that I do. But also processes and all that documented is something that I've been focused on this year. So I just got an assistant. So there's a process for everything, like, how do we create a good video? How do we create copy? How do we do these things? And just starting to outline that it's not perfect, it's not done yet, but done is better than best, especially there. I can also say, hey, like, you've been pulling data. Could you record a loom video? So I have this as a process. Those two things have been crucial for me. And I think most importantly, which is what most creators and creators will probably resonate with. I avoided structure for a long time, but a process around the content itself, like, how do you create a good video? What are the questions that you ask yourself? Where are you pulling inspiration from? Like, how are you writing copy? How do you do a good cta? Like, all these things, a process around that and then a system around that as well. And I've just built everything for the most part through notion. There's a few integrations in there as well, but through notion, those are probably the big three. But there's a lot of stuff, man, I. I have this process for everything, but I most importantly just got. It has to work for you. It's got to be the way that you learn and the way that you create. Not the way that I learn, the way that I create. I think that's the most important thing. Maybe that's a notepad. Maybe that's a notification from your Google Calendar to sit down and record whatever it is. It can be simple, but some type of system.

Yeah, all that stuff sounds boring, but. But we have to embrace those boring things. Otherwise we don't have the time and the ability to do the exciting things with our business. So I'm glad you're bringing this up because for years that was my problem. I got by off raw talent and ambition. But there is no real strategy or process. So pretend I have a new course coming out. You should promote that X weeks in advance instead. I would say, hey, tomorrow, here's this course, who wants it right? Or even doing research before you build the course through social list or surveys, all that stuff, that stuff's boring. But if you can embrace the boring parts of business, you'll get more results from the exciting part and you actually have more time for it eventually. But that's when you have to work on your business, not in your business. And if you're not good at that stuff, maybe you bring someone in to help you document those processes. Therefore you can just hand it off to somebody else or at least execute better. But I'm glad you're bringing up the boring part because no one's ready for that. Because when you have a 9 to 5, someone else already built out these processes, you might complain about them. Oh, I hate this tool, I hate that tool. But someone picked the tool. But as an entrepreneur, like, you have to go find one based on your needs, your budget, your understanding. And if you don't, you're just making it up as you go along. And you can't learn from your mistakes because you don't even know what they were because you weren't tracking them properly.

And it doesn't have to be perfect. You can adjust. I've changed so many things, but. And it's going to change because you'll have more team members, your content, you'll branch out. But more you do it, more you document the processes, the more you can upgrade them up, level them, but the easier it is to outsource later, you know?

Yeah. So let's, let's stick with content for a moment and let's pretend one of our listeners is thinking, hey, that's cool. You know, I've been creating content, I have somewhat of a process. I think I have good things to say, but I'm getting zero results. No one's really engaging commenting. They're definitely not paying me. What advice would you give to someone who's tried social media to an extent that. But it's just not finding any Success as of yet.

There's a few things I would say. One, you probably haven't tried on the extent that you think you have. I've been creating content my whole life, and even when I moved into doing it professionally, it took me over 500 videos before I really started to pick up traction. That was damn near two years. You know, like, a lot of us think we try but are really giving our all. But also two, and I think this is the most important part, because some of you probably are really trying, but keep trying. But two, if we approach content like a business, like, what does the market say? Like, we just look at podcasts. Let's say it's very hard to get traction on a podcast, but I would argue most podcasts aren't needed. What are. What's. What's the reason? What's the real need for this podcast? Just like a business, you're not going to thrive as a business if there's not a real need, a real desire, real fit for your business. Same for content. So look at your vertical that you're in, or verticals, whatever it is, look at your realm, look at your world. What are people creating? What are they not creating? What do you have? And how can you bring a real need and desire and get people to keep coming back for more? If you can do that, you'll win. And if you can create a strong concept, too, I think that's where a lot of people just, like, they don't think about, like, hey, like, I'm a. I'm an entrepreneur and I want to be an authority in the space. Okay? Like, let me just talk about everything. Entrepreneurship, that's fine, that's cool. You can build a brand, you can build an audience. Like that. People have done it, people do it. But what would be cooler is like, yo, like, what if you were like, I'm an entrepreneur and I want to be an authority in this space. So I'm just going to do breakdowns. Yo, Twitter, this is how I turn this company into an X, Y and Z company. Yo, Facebook, this is how I would approach the metaverse, yo, but you do breakdowns like that. Or, hey, like, yo, I'm an entrepreneur. I want to be an authority. Let me just build companies. Okay? This year, one, this is. I'm going to take this random product and I'm going to make it. I'm going to make six figures off of it, right? Like in your. It's a concept. It's not you talking about a bunch of topics, but you can still talk about the topics underneath the concepts. So I think approaching it like a business. Does this fit? Is this needed in the world? But also concepts with a strong concept that I can nest topics underneath but really use to track people. And I think when you have those two things, your conversion from view to follow is going to be a lot stronger. Not. I think it's going to be a lot stronger because I've just seen it time and time again and that that's regardless of what platform you're on, in my opinion, at least.

Yeah, that's a great lesson to take away. And one thing I try to think with my content is what's missing, what's currently missing, and how can I fill that void in an authentic way. So with my content, I mean, there's a lot of ways to be engaging on video especially. I don't go over the top in regards to raising my energy level, because I'm just who I am. I just do my best to be interesting. And there's a lot of, like, you know, dry humor in there. But if I tried to be someone I'm not to be more engaging or more enthusiastic, I would exhaust myself and I think alienate a lot of people who are just confused as to why all of a sudden I'm making this. This pivot where they know that I'm a dad with four kids and I'm always a little bit tired. So it wouldn't make sense that all of a sudden I'm just super excited. Guy on camera.

It is true. I. I had to create a Persona for myself back in the day because I'm so introverted, and I refuse to admit it. And I swear, every time I, like, put on my hat, which is like my signature, like, I just. I became a different person. And that was my on camera, on stage, in meeting Persona. Then there was me. Like, there's. There's value in that. But I think just being authentic is so much better. It's not that I wasn't myself. I was just. I was like an actor extending myself, if that makes sense. But it's exhausting. Very, very exhausting.

Well, there are times when you have to turn it on. When I'm on stages, I know I have to turn it on. Right. And I'll give you example. I was speaking somewhere in Chicago. Well, in Chicago. Not somewhere in Chicago. I was speaking in Chicago recently, and the person before me was freaking amazing. Like, they were funny. They were running around the stage doing this cool stuff, and I'm like, oh, shoot, that ain't me. So I was like, well, how do I transition from that person to me without letting the audience down and also without being an inauthentic version of myself? So what I did is I got on stage and I'm like, hey, have you ever been in school or at an event? And the person before you was amazing? And you're like, man, I would not want to go after them. That's how I feel right now. So I just teed it up like that. Like, by the way, this is about to get a bit more boring, or at least lower energy, and that worked, right? So I think if you can just. Yes, there are times when you have to turn it up, but you're still you. At the end of the day, you're maybe a more enthusiastic version of yourself. Maybe you have a cool hat on. But when you start creating content that is just so far from your personality, it's going to be exhausting. It's inauthentic. And eventually someone's going to meet you in person. They're going to say, well, where's that guy? You know, where's that woman? So it doesn't pay necessarily to pursue yourself, portray yourself as someone else. But we're talking about some. Some great lessons that you're sharing here. And my next question is this. What is one lesson that you wish you learned earlier in your career as an entrepreneur?

Oh, dude, there's so many.

What are. What are three lessons that you learned that you wish you.

I would say, one, the bigger your team, that does not mean the more successful you are. You could be pretty successful with one person, you know, like, and some contractors or just one person. I thought I needed a big team to appear successful. I was driven by ego. Two, I would say that there's already people out there that are doing what you want to do, regardless of what it is. There's portions of what they're already doing, what you want to do. If you need help with YouTube, if you want to grow on YouTube, there's people out there that are crushing it. Find them. TikTok, LinkedIn, same thing. I'm going to do more than three, because they're just off about three systems and processes. Like, I avoided them so, so much. But if you have a process, a system, you will go so far, even if it's not perfect, just keep up leveling as you go. But it will help you with hiring, it'll help you with content, it'll help you scale. And you don't want to build on a rocky foundation, which is what I did. I Did it twice, you know and I, I did not learn my lesson and I, I think for content wise like we all, as we're growing our business for the most part we want this personal brand, we want to build authority. It's so powerful and so nice. But you do not need that to have a successful business. It has helped me tremendously and without it I would not be able to do anything in business. But I know so many people that are happier because they don't have to, they don't have to report to people, they don't have to create the content, they just have the business. And then when they have the business they're able to apply that to brand. So you don't need it. It is helpful, it is very, very powerful. But I wish I spent more time building my business skills and less time on the creative which is where I was already really good as I was building my first and second and third business and now fourth you have this.

Patience about you, like this moving stillness. Where does that come from? Because you know, for someone you're relatively young, normally everyone's like, oh, they gotta hustle hard and all this stuff. Whereas your more relaxed, more present, more thoughtful. Are you doing yoga a lot or meditate? Like what's that? Is it some kind of tea? Like what's up?

I used to meditate, but not a lot anymore. Actually not at all anymore. I, I had a chaotic life as a kid. Like just very chaotic. And it just, it was what it was, you know, like you do what you got to do and that carried on through adulthood. And there's some bad things and things that I'm working through from that. But in other areas it's really good too, you know. But I, I think mainly building my first business. I was thinking about this recently. I was so driven by ego and the need to prove people wrong and prove people that I'm worthy and I'm good at what I do. And then when I feel like I did, when I felt like I did, it was just as pointless, you know, like. And I wasn't really more successful than I, I mean I was but to me I wasn't more successful than I was previously. It was like, what's the point? And I think now I just, I really want to prove to myself that I'm good, I'm great at what I do. I want to get to the point where I really feel that I'm great and I want to have fun and feel like I give back to the world and I'm doing something meaningful. And I know that that takes time like that. That's a 10, 20, 30, 40 year journey, you know. And it just is what it is, which is it's always the mindset.

I love it. So I want to be respectful of your time. I'll let you go now, but where can people find out more about you? What's the best way to keep in touch or to follow up with you?

Yeah, as I'm doing this experiment, I'm still figuring out my life, but the the main where I go really deep will be my newsletter and then my YouTube channel. If you just search Quentin Michael I should pop up or quintanalams.com which is my website. But I'm mostly active on TikTok and LinkedIn right now and then YouTube pretty soon here as well. But quintanalams.com awesome.

Q. Thanks for this. I appreciate it man. Great chatting with you.

Appreciate you man. Appreciate you. This is a lot of fun.

And that's our show for today. And the key takeaway for me was not just to get comfortable with failure, but to set goals so high that even if you do fail, you can still accomplish something meaningful or at the very least learn something from it. And that's the approach I still take to building my business. If I'm going to hear a no about an opportunity, I'd rather hear a no for one that's worth hundreds of thousands of dollars or more, not just a few hundred bucks. This is also a great reminder to set up systems for your business, even though it can be a bit boring at times. And that reminds me of one of my favorite quotes by James Clear, you do not rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems. Thanks for listening and I'll see you next time. Apply what you've learned on today's show. You'll find the show notes and more resources at Terryrice Co. Podcast. Again, that's Terryrice Co Podcast, and the best way to support this podcast is by subscribing, telling a friend, and leaving a review. Also, you can get more tips by following me on Instagram @TerryRice or follow me on LinkedIn. This episode was produced by Josh Wilcox of Brooklyn Podcasting Studio and edited by Dan Lardy. Special thanks to my wife, Dominique, for keeping our kids relatively quiet as I recorded. Thanks again for listening. I'll see you next time.