Curriculum Session 2 - Choosing & Using Good Examples

Hello, everyone. Get yourself settled in. We are going to do our second week 2 curriculum session, which I absolutely love doing. This is actually my favorite curriculum week, and I'm very excited. So first off, I have put a question for you to post in the chat, which is you've all been going through the process, or a lot of you have been going through the process of finding your USPs. So tell me how you've been finding it. How have you gone? And just post in the chat. Can we also have some cameras on? There's not a single person with the camera on. Nice to see your faces. Thanks, guys. Okay, let's see what we've got. Just a couple more people coming in. We have not started yet, Lucy. That's fine. So remember, you can go through this stuff in any order that you want. Not any order that you want, in any timeframe that you want. So I would encourage you to always start with 1, Lucy. So even though we're going to talk about 2, don't skip milestone 1. It's really important, and we've done them in an order, but there's no rush. You can do it in your own time. So even if you feel like you've fallen behind, you've not. Just get going. You're going to be absolutely fine and work your way through the milestones as you go. Mary, you're struggling to find a good research and education one. So you don't need a research and education one. If you don't have them, what you're doing is finding your best bits. So what is it that your strengths are? And if you don't have one in research and education, that's fine. You could have 4 leadership ones and a clinical one. That's okay. So don't try and make things where they're not there. It's about you identifying your best bits. Finding it useful, sorting and refining more. You're happy with your USP? P's, they're very different from the ones that you started with. So this is great. This is a very good process to go through. And yeah, it's totally fine to change. And they might even change further as you get to know yourself, the job you're applying for. So don't worry about changing them. It becomes much easier to swap them in and out. You're not sure if you've got enough. So you want 5. You will be able to find 5. So if you're stuck finding 5, I'd post on the specific interviews channel, or you can also bring it along to one of the coaching calls. Found multiple, Dinesh, and want to check what's best. Okay, so that's fine. So you remember there's not usually a definitive answer as to what's best. So what we want is for you to draw out what you think are your strongest ones, and that's going to be based on what you know about the team you're applying to and what you know about yourself. So how How do— how are you showing— how are you comfortable talking about it and it's relevant to them? You're happy with your USPs?

Great.

Is session 1 recorded so I can watch back? Yes, session 1 is recorded. So if you go to the curriculum space and you go there, there's tabs at the top that say week 1, week 2, week 3. It basically— whatever week you're in, that's where the recordings from that session go. So if you go into the week 1 space You'll be able to find the replay from last week and you can watch about what we were going through about your USPs. And they're there for as long as you need. So don't worry if you can't find it. Corley will help you so you can just submit a support ticket. So don't worry. You've altered yours to ones you feel are less impressive so that they more reflect the role you've applied for.

Yeah.

So you want to pick stuff that's relevant to them. So there's no point in doing a hard sell on something that they don't want or need. That's not going to be helpful to anyone. Okay, Daisy, work in progress. Yep, you're including previous GP experience plus a previous career prior to medical school. Great. So this is stuff that people commonly just discard and you think, oh, maybe it's a bad thing or maybe it's not relevant. But you, sounds like you have a wealth of great experience that is clearly transferable. And so the fact that you're starting to recognize that and use it is a great thing because that's what is unique about you. And you're trying to bring out the best bits of you. Fatima, you're trying to figure them out. That's okay. Remember that it's a process. So your USPs, finding them is a really important process that you should take time to go through. And it's worth getting them right. It's worth trying to work through them and improve them because it's the core of your whole interview. And once you get them, you're going to be super happy and you're going to feel a lot more confident. So definitely Make sure that you take the time to get them right and don't feel bad about them. Swash difficult. You feel like your USPs don't count as USPs, so use the coaches. We're there every day, as you can see, and you can post in the specific interview support channel, and you can also see what other people's are like. So don't—it's probable that they're not not counting as USPs. It's just you bringing out different elements of them, and as you see with some of the. ones that we did spotlight with last week, just a simple twist on how you portray a USP can take it from sounding very generic to sounding amazing. And so, a lot of it is just about how you're conveying it. And part of that is showing what it is you're drawing out to show the panel. So, you're choosing senior-level stuff so that you can show the panel that you understand what the role involves. But remember, it is a work in progress and it's fine. Luke, you joined the Academy this afternoon. Well, welcome. So you haven't got that far yet. That's OK. So you'll still— you can still think about your examples, but definitely go back and do Milestone 1. You've got time to catch up on it. And there's another session that I did last week, so don't worry. And everyone, just make sure that you do complete Milestone 1. You don't want to move on because then what you'll find is you might have great examples, But then when they ask you, you know, the core of why you're there, who you are, what you bring, you're going to struggle with. And so it's going to make it a lot harder for you. So try and stick to the plan. Okay, so this is the leaderboard as we are just now. So well done, Sarah, she's storming ahead at the top. We've got a couple of you on 9, a few of you on 8, a few on 7. Kate, I think, got her job this week, so I'm guessing she is off celebrating somewhere. So remember that the leaderboard, you get badges for completing the onboarding week and then completing your milestones. And this is as a marker of your progress through the Academy, and it's to incentivize you because I know we all like winning stuff. And so yeah, you'll also get prioritized for Spotlight coaching. So you can catch up, you can catch all these people, it's going to be fine. So please do keep going with that. Some practicalities. Hopefully you've started to get the hang of the rhythm of the Academy. So we, you know, we've got coaching sessions. So we've got, you've got a curriculum session each week with me, you've got a guest session each week, and we've got a group coaching session each week. And that's the same pattern. And we take you through the curriculum as live, but you can also do it in your own order. And hopefully some of you guys went to Giles's session on Saturday. I know Kat said it went really well and loads of interesting questions coming up, and it's great that we're able to get Giles coming along. We've got a thumbs up there from someone who was there, so that's good. And again, the recording of any of these, if you want to catch up, is on in the Week 1 curriculum space, and the recording from today will go in the Week 2 curriculum space. Keep posting your videos. They're doing great. We love watching them. I love watching you and seeing you improve. And all of the feedback we give, hopefully those of you who started posting will realize it gets less stressful to post the more you do it. It's not a big deal, it's okay. And then it'll make you more confident with your answers as well. And all the feedback we give you comes from a place of love and wanting to bring out the best for you. And so we try to help you with how you can improve. Some of you have delivered great answers that I don't have anything to say except that you smashed it, which is good. If you're in that boat, you need to push yourself to harder questions. One of the things that we do see commonly that I'm just going to say to you is, and you may be in this situation, is sort of recording 25 times and sending us the 26th attempt. We don't want you to do that because you're not doing it for show for us or for show for anyone. What you're going to be doing in your interview is not giving them your 25th go of the answer or not spending an hour prepping the answer before you post. What you're going to be doing in your interview— is doing your first answer as best as you can. That's it. So you're not doing yourself favours by recording it 500 times before posting it so that it's a better answer, because that's just not the way it's going to go. Your best bet is to just keep doing— look at the question, do an answer, look at another question, do an answer, rather than trying to perfect. Except with the first question, which is tell me about yourself, you should be practising that because you know you can be pretty sure a version of it's going to come up. And if it doesn't come up, you can still use parts of it anyway. But most others, you just want to keep practising different versions of questions and you do them as live. Keep collecting your badges. Tell us when you get an interview. You should all be getting the interview form sent to you. If anyone isn't, you can ask Coralie. And if you're stressed, please tell us. If you're finding it overwhelming or you don't know what to do, tell us. Coralie is on hand, um, and she is great at pointing you in the right direction or putting you in touch with the coaches if you need it. So, uh, we don't know if you're stressed unless you tell us, so please do reach out to us. We're here for you. We really want you to have a good experience, but importantly, get— build your confidence with your prep. So if something's not working for you, you're feeling off, then just let us know. And you will get your next badge for this, for completing your milestone. So just like many of you have done for Milestone 1, this session is the Week 2 curriculum replay is going to be posted in the Week 2 curriculum space. And it has a little yellow badge on it, which means that you can get a badge for scoring points on the leaderboard by posting under there. And if you post your examples under there, you'll get your Choosing Good Examples badge. If you want feedback on them, don't post them there because that's not, that's not where you get feedback. You'll get feedback by posting them on the specific interview support channel. So same as last time, anytime you want feedback, Post on the specific interview support channel. If it's a video answer, you post on the recorded answer review, and you'll see there's other stuff in the Week 2 curriculum space that you can have a look at as well. And remember, as an extra incentive, we've got free one-to-one coaching call for 3 people who complete all of their milestones by the end of the cohort. This is just to give you a nudge, get you going, and give you kind of that extra drive. It's not the first 3 people to complete their milestones. Everyone who's completed all 5 milestones. By the end of the cohort, we'll draw someone, draw 3 people randomly, and you'll get free one-to-one coaching sessions. So please do it. Go through the milestones. We've put them together to help you. Fatima, you've said, yeah, it gets easier every time you record and post. Yeah, because there's a lot of friction and stress about the first time. Maybe what will people think or what will we think? What you will realise is that everyone is in the same boat feeling stressed about prepping for their interview. And from a coach's point of view, we love watching answers. We watch— I watch answers every day. I've seen all sorts. There's nothing you're going to do that we've not seen before that's terrible or whatever it is. It's fine. It's just part of the process of learning. And once you get into it, you're going to find it a lot easier. So why do examples matter? So we're going to talk today about examples. And what I mean by this is tell me about a time when examples. So, tell me about a time when you did X. And you, you can use these throughout your interview, so they might come up in different ways. And it's actually not hard to choose good examples, and I'm going to talk you through the exact process of how to choose good examples. But if you choose bad examples, you can make yourself unemployable and unappointable because you've said something that really makes them stop and question you. Your clinical ability, your team working skills, whatever it is. So just, it's really, really important to think about how to choose the best examples. So we've put together simple frameworks for you, which I'm going to go through with you today. And then you can go through on the specific interview support channel as well. You'll start to get the hang of it. The key thing I want you to remember is when we ask you to share your example, We're talking about the story. We're talking about a 2-sentence story, and I'm going to go into that in more detail. What we don't want for this or for any part of your interview prep is for you to be writing out answers, writing out paragraphs. And I know I'm kind of pushing some of you on it, and that's because writing down answers and trying to memorise sentences is not the way that's going to help you on the day. You're going to be stressed. You're going to be in your head trying to remember a script. If something goes slightly wrong, you lose your place, they word the question differently, going to be really stressed. So anytime you're feeling the urge to write down an answer, don't. Okay, don't write your answer down. Bullet points is okay if you want to write your 3 points down so you remember it, or the wording of the question, but don't write answers down. And when we're talking about your examples, what we mean is the story part. That part I do think you should write down because it's important to get the wording tight because it sets it up for the rest of the question. And we're going to go through that, so don't worry if you're not sure what I mean. So the obvious way of thinking of examples is to think about something massively dramatic that happened in your career. That is the normal thing. If I say, tell me about a time you make a mistake, you think about the most hideous error that you've ever made. And then you might take out the worst bits because obviously you're trying to get a job, so you don't really want to tell them all the worst bits. And you might overshare on the details to give context. So you might say, well, you know, it was my first day and no one had done induction, or it was a Monday, there were 3 patients waiting for an ECG and someone hadn't turned up for work and it was the 4th Wednesday of the month and you start explaining all of these things to explain why it happened. And then you'd add a little bit about what you did and you feel very stressed and sweaty. And we don't want this to happen to you. What we want you to do is instead to think of the everyday. So these are the mistakes, the conflicts that happen every day that are relatable. We want you to share them authentically, so it should— needs to be true. We want you to take out all the unnecessary details. It doesn't matter what the person's name was or how many other patients they were or what so-and-so said or whether it was a Friday. Take out all the unnecessary details so that your story can be as tight and short as possible. And then the bulk of your answer is to focus on your actions, not on the story, but to focus on your actions. And we want you to go in knowing that you have them and to use them confidently. And that's— when you can do that, you can then flex and adapt your answers. And this is why we've put this as the second milestone, which is choosing your examples and then using them. But choosing them is the important part where you need to get your story right, tight, clear, a good example. So as a reminder, which I'm sure you guys are getting the hang of, is the program, the curriculum of the academy is to go through these 5 milestones. Find your 5 USPs, which we went through last week in week 1. Find your 5 solid examples, which we're going through today. Your senior-level thinking, which we'll go through next week. Job-specific knowledge, which we're also going to do next week because we have milestone 3 and 4 in one week. And then bringing in you as the last one. Nishu, you've asked, are USPs different from examples? So they are different from examples. I'm going to go through though what your examples are. They won't naturally overlap, with one exception. But let's go, we can go through them and then you can see what you think. And if you're still not sure about overlapping, then we can talk about it and you can post on the chat. But I think you'll see how they are different. So we're going to go through 3 frameworks for how to choose your examples. The 3 frameworks are the How the Hell Did That Happen bin, the AYCI examples checklist, and then the 5 solid golden examples that we want you to prep for your second milestone. And if you follow these rules, you're going to be choosing safe examples. And just to remind you, these are not rules set in stone. You can deviate from them, but what I want you to do is only do that when you're confident, the same as when you deviate from guidelines because you're experienced clinically and not because you You know, I have decided randomly. So what we want is, if you're not sure, the safest way to choose an example is to follow these guidelines. But if you've thought about it and you think, yeah, I've considered that, but I've decided not to because of X, Y, and Z, that's fine. So use your own discretion. You know your service best, you know your team, you know your skills best, so that is totally fine. Uh, Livia, it's the how the hell did that happen bin, which we're going to go through, so we don't worry, we'll, we will come to that. So what you want to do is find this balance of recognizing that there will be many things that have happened to you and that have happened to me in our careers. There's lots. You've had a reasonably long career so far. You have many more and many more years, and there'll be lots of dramatic things that happens during that. But not everything needs to be told to the panel. So it's important to bear in mind that it's your interview and you can choose what you share. Unless you have something that is mandatory to share, some sort of GMC restriction or something going on that you have to declare. Everything else is up to you. It's your discretion. So don't feel that you have to share every single thing that's ever happened to you. That is not the goal of the interview. It's for you to choose things that the panel should know about that you think will benefit you. That's what you're trying to pick. Now, the first examples that probably come to mind when you think of a mistake is that time you were involved in an SI where The patient died and you think it was your fault, or it was your fault, or you had some sort of crazy interpersonal conflict that you had to get an external mediator in, or HR had to get involved, or you had to put in a complaint about. It's normal that these are the first examples that come to mind. That's fine. So what I want you to do is get them out of your system before your interview. So I don't want you to be coming out with these in your interview. What we want instead is for you to choose the mistake that everyone's made. that when I hear you saying it, I think, oh yeah, that happened to me, or that happened to so-and-so, or, oh yeah, I can see how that happened. You want a patient who's experienced a bit of inconvenience, but you haven't shortened their lifespan or done anything serious. And you want the conflict that happens every day, not something that was very dramatic or very notable, and not something that had to involve the HR of the trust. So my question for you is, as I'm saying it, I know you'll be starting to run through examples in your heads. So when you start thinking about your examples, what is it that you find most difficult about them? So just post in the chat. Yeah, Olivia, it's nothing about the health department. Okay, so yeah, just tell me what you find most difficult. Okay, let's see what we've got. A, trying to set the scene without giving too much detail. This is a common problem. So once you choose the example, you have to be able to share it concisely. It's common to add loads of detail. What you want to do is remember that not everyone on your panel will be in your specialty, and some of them won't be clinical. So you will have a chief exec who may not be clinical, you'll have a lay chair who won't be clinical. So you need to make it understandable, and adding lots of detail about the clinical elements doesn't help. And the length of time is usually a good guide, so it should be within— you should be able to say it within 30 seconds. The dramatic ones stay with you. So that's normal, the dramatic ones stay with me as well. And there's nothing wrong with making mistakes. We're all Human, but the thing to remember is that this is your interview, so you don't need to share them now. And it's totally fine having these dramatic ones, thinking about them now, and then recognizing that they are not the thing that you want to share in your interview. Sarah, you've got a terrible memory. Don't need to tell me; I'm a middle-aged woman, so I get that. But what you're trying to do is just get into the habit of thinking even everyday things that happen to you now, looking at what other people are saying. It's going to trigger things because it's not the memorable things. You don't want the things that appear that are piercing through your memory. You actually want just. them smaller, more relatable everyday things. Thinking of how to get a USP in there. So I'm going to make it easy for you. You don't need to get a USP in there. This is not about your USPs. This is about specific examples for specific scenarios. So don't worry about that. Trying to find a simple mistake. So the mistake one is a hard one, which is why you don't want to just come up with something in the spur of the moment in your interview. So like with your USPs, it's worth taking the time to like prep this in advance so that you've got good ones. That's okay. That's why you're here. Johnny, difficult to get the balance between enough meat in the example while not being a how the hell did that happen case. Yeah, so I'm going to give you some frameworks that should make it a bit easier. But yeah, it's a balance. You want something that's enough that they're not going to say, well, Johnny, that is no big deal at all, so why are you sharing that? Or like, oh my God. So you do need to find the balance, and it's important to just think about it, sound it past us in advance. Ali, your memory— you might be your memory trying to wipe out bad experience. You find it hard to find a minor mistake. Either it's big or, um, you haven't made bad mistakes. Um, so you will have. These are like the small things, uh, and you'll see some examples as people start to share. Uh, Robin, you have no conflict with anyone. So we will come on to that because you might not have conflicts with anyone, Robin, because you are very lovely and would never have conflict, but maybe someone has Felt conflicted towards you, and that's what you're trying to draw out. You don't want it to reflect badly on you. That's right. So that's why we want to choose examples that we've chosen for a good reason, that answer their question but don't make us look bad. You don't want to look like you're difficult to work with, you can't be trusted, you're going to be arguing with everyone. So yeah, these are good things to worry about. Either too small or too big. And remember as well that your panel are just made up of human beings who will all have opinions. And someone might think one is too big, or someone might think it's too small. And what you're trying to do is make sure you answer the question, make sure you don't put anyone off employing you. And remember that the story is only a small part of your answer. They're not asking you the question to hear a good story. Holly, it's hard to forget— it's easy to forget the everyday examples, which it is. But I think as you start to see other people's, it will trigger you. Flashbacks of awful situations. Sophie, I feel you, and this is good to get it all out now, uh, while you can have a cry or a cup of tea and not in your interview. Because what you don't want is to be sharing that awful situation in your interview and being like, why did I bring this up? And getting emotional about it and then over-explaining it, and then everyone's shifting awkwardly in their chair. How much detail to give? So less is more on the detail front, but we'll go into that. Um, Is it really relevant? Adzibayo, yes. So you want to choose something that definitely answers the question. You don't have much to learn on some examples, as in duty of candour. So I would push you there, Ahmed, to say you do have something. You always have something to learn in every interaction you have with anyone and any patient. So your reflection on duty of candour could be around how you conveyed the information. to the family and how that conversation went, I would guess it's unlikely that you review your practice and think it's perfect. So that's all you're being asked to do is like, actually, is there something you could have done a bit differently and that you've learned from that case that you would then use to something else? It doesn't need to be you've built a new service, it can be something small for yourself. When the mistake conflict isn't very significant, you might not need to do much about it. That's true. So you do need an example where you can talk about it for 3 minutes. So if you find you've got nothing to say about it, it's not a good example to use. Generally, I would say that most topics you could find something to say for 2 minutes. So probably there is enough there. But yeah, that's what you need to decide. Sarah, only working as an SPR so far, so most stories involve escalating to seniors. Yeah, so you're trying to not not use that part of the story or not use a story like that. Because obviously, you're going for a senior role. They want to see how you resolve conflict, how you deal with error. That's not to say you don't escalate. I've been a consultant for 10 years. I ask my colleagues for help and advice all the time. So, there's no problem with talking to other people and sharing, asking for advice. But you don't want it to be like, well, we weren't getting along, so I asked my boss and they spoke to his boss, because that doesn't show what they've asked you to demonstrate, which is— how can you handle and resolve conflict? Duty of candor has very little in CAMHS, or, uh, or I'm not sure what the second part of that is. But do you know, if you think you're in a specialty where you don't do duty of candor, then they're not going to ask you about it in your interview. Because if you think it's completely irrelevant to your specialty— so some people might say this if they've not got like a patient-facing specialty, they're not going to be having to do it. That's fine, then they're not going to ask you about it. If If you think there is a chance that they would ask you about it, that's because they think it is relevant, or you might have been able to do it, in which case you should prep an answer to it. So I'd just have a think about that. Yes, there is a particular format to present an example, which we're going to go through today. We'll talk about the difference between the mistake example and the duty of candour. And Mary finding a banal duty of candour example. Most of mine are, how the hell did that happen material. So actually Duty of candour is the exception to the how the hell did that happen bin, so don't worry about that. That's your— it sounds like you're on the right track. On the Sunday coaching session, I was asked about dealing with conflict between a doctor and a nurse. I didn't have an example ready for that, so panicked a bit. So it could happen that you get asked about something in your interview that you haven't thought of, but remember, what I want you to do is to start when you get asked a question that's unexpected, I want you to pause and think, is there something from my milestones that I could use? And you may be able to flex whatever your conflict is, possibly. But actually, probably within one of your USPs, if you've done a deeper dive into your USPs, there will be conflict. So for example, if you're doing a change project, you're doing a QIP, you're trying to make a change, but there was resistance from the nursing team, that could be a conflict to talk about. And it would give you a chance to talk about your USPs. So before your brain goes to, oh my God, panic, this isn't— Tessa didn't tell me this would come up. I want you to pause and actually think. You've prepped 5 milestones. Once you've prepped them, which I think you may have, Audrey, once you've prepped them, there will be something from what you've prepped that you can use. And if there genuinely isn't, then you pause and you give your best answer. Let's say in this you didn't have an example of a conflict between a doctor and a nurse. The thing not to do is to say— I don't know how you answered this, by the way, in the coaching session, so this is not a reflection on that— but in an interview, the thing you wouldn't want to do is say, oh, I don't have an example, we need to move on. Because actually, remember that what they're asking you isn't tell me a great story, but is how do you regard conflicts between medical and nursing colleagues? What is your reflection going to be on it? How would you handle it? And so you have like the bulk of the points to gain whether you show an example or not. So you could say, well, actually I don't have a direct example to hand, but here are the broad principles. So you can still salvage it that way. But I would guess that if you think back to your USPs and you develop them properly, there will be some sort of conflict. It doesn't need to be an argument, but it might be resistance to change or something like that. I think I missed yours. Should I be Choosing ones which show some reflective learning and depict senior-level thinking. Yeah, so you're going for a consultant job, so you should be trying to show senior-level thinking. Can you use examples where the patient has had a conflict with you based on the fact that they're medical and they're in the opposite specialty that works alongside you? Probably. I'm not sure I quite get what you're saying, but let's go through the conflict one and then we can see if your question is still relevant. You can post it again. I've tried to answer everyone's as I've gone, but if I've missed any, um, you can, you can post them again when we, when we come to that part. So don't, don't worry, I'm not trying to ignore people, just trying to get through all— I'm trying to answer all of your questions. Um, okay, so let's talk about how we choose our examples. The first filter is the how the hell did that happen bin. So what I want you to do is to run your examples through this bin. This bin is for Things that if the panel hear it, they will be thinking, how the hell did Tessa get into that situation? That's— and they— all they can think about is, how the hell did Tessa do that? It's distracting. It's going to move them away from thinking about your great handling of the situation. And so these are some questions that can help you see if your example should go in the how the hell did that happen bin. So you can ask, was it a memorable event in your career? I appreciate this is probably 90% or more of the first examples that that come to mind. If it was a memorable event in your career, it's probably not one you want to share in your substantive consultant interview and should go in the bin. Did it need formal escalation through a pathway reserved for significant events? Some sort of SI, some sort of HR pathway, went to court, complained, whatever it is. If it went through a formal escalation pathway, put it in the how the hell did that happen bin. Again, I know these things happen, not something you need to share with your substantive interview panel. Was it a notable stress or a conversation in your team at the time? So if I said, uh, uh, do you remember that time when Johnny did whatever? And they're like, hell yeah, we're still talking about it and it's 3 years later. This is not a good example. This should be in the how the hell did that happen bin. Okay. You don't want it to be a talking point, a memorable thing, a big explosion, whatever it is. It shouldn't be used in your interview. And if a patient came to serious harm for the same reasons. Put it in the bin. And there's a couple of questions where also to think about, which do you think this could have happened to someone on your panel? And if you were like, there is no way that this has happened to anyone else other than me, not a good example. Put it in the how the hell did that happen bin. Or have you heard it happening to anyone else? No. Again, this is how the hell did this happen to Tessa? It's distracting and it's going to move them away from the point of why they're asking you the question. And how the hell did that happen, Ben? It's not that these things don't happen. I fully accept that they do, and they will happen to all of us. That's, that's the way life goes. But you get to choose what you say in your interview. These are examples that you can talk to your therapist about, or examples that you can have a debrief with a friend over a cup of tea or your chosen drink of choice. These are not things that need to be vomited out onto your interview desk. So choose what you share, and that's why it's really important to go through this filter. So some examples to give you an idea of what might go in the how the hell did that happen bin are conflicts with junior colleagues. So it doesn't look cool to be punching down, to be saying, well, you know, the SHO wasn't good and they weren't performing well and I pulled them up on it and I told them— that's not the look that you want to go for. It's not the way you want to come across in your interview. Same conflicts with nurses. So I know in the example you gave, Audrey, you were specifically asked that. So remember, if you're specifically asked something, that's different. If you're specifically asked, tell me about an SI you've been involved in, that's different. But if you're asked a general question, tell me about a conflict with a colleague, don't you— I wouldn't choose a conflict with a nurse. And that's because it just doesn't look great. Are you going to be— they need to worry, like, do we need to worry that you're not going to get on with the nurses on our team? It's not the way you want to come across. And the same, second-guessing your seniors— my consultant got it wrong and I told them— doesn't look good for obvious reasons. Causing harm to patients. So a little bit of harm is okay, because if it's not a little bit of something, then there's no impact for your scenario. So you do need there to be a consequence, but just not a terrible one. And that is a tricky balance, I agree. But that's why you want to think about it before. Going to court for your involvement in a case. Not something you want to be sharing in your interview. Offering times where people complained about you when you weren't directly asked it, no need to do it. So the rule is don't throw yourself under the bus, okay? Not necessary. You want them to give you a job. Being a poor team player, um, of course, is not great. Um, so there's— I think there's a couple of questions here, so I'm just gonna have a look. Um, Tasneem, my examples don't follow every tick box. So, so I like, uh, how did you share learning? So there's— forget about the tick boxes just now. I want you to focus on true Choosing a good solid example, and then you can worry about the after part. So the first step is just choosing the story, and that is a 2-sentence thing that you can share about a scenario that fits these criteria. You can, you can worry about what you're going to say about it and how you handled it separately, but just now we're talking about choosing a good example. What about if I talk about an example regarding my own relationship with a clinical nurse? It may sound like I had problems with them. So if it's a conflict with a colleague and that colleague is your clinical nurse, for the reasons I've mentioned, I wouldn't choose it. Now, if there's a particular reason you want to and you think it shows you in a good light, then you could consider it. But the safest thing is not to choose that because they don't want them questioning whether you're able to get on with the nursing team or not. Do I need to mention that I escalated an issue accordingly with the trust policy? So I think, Olivia, you probably need to share a bit more detail about what you've got in mind because it's a bit hard to I guess, tell from this, but you can post. Is asking the ortho reg to call his consultant for a difficult case a good example? So this is where we will go through the conflicts, the rules about conflict. But what you're doing here is you're annoyed with the ortho reg. And so you are causing the conflict with him or her, him. And the safest thing is actually for someone to be annoyed at you rather than you being annoyed at them. And you'll start to see why as we go through it. And Jo, there's a specific question about, tell me a time when you disagreed with a senior colleague or something along those lines. How would you approach that? So remember, if they ask you something in particular, you would answer that. So they, if they ask you, tell me about a significant event, tell me about a time you went to court, tell me about a time you got HR involved, whatever it is, of course you would answer the question. They're asking you to try and push your buttons and to see what you're going to share. So if they ask you about a time you disagreed with a senior colleague, Then you should tell them one. I don't think it's the most common question, but you want to be— again, think about stuff you've prepped already before you come up with some random example. Think about stuff you've prepped. There may be a time from one of your USPs where you were trying to navigate change and you had a difference of opinion about what you would do. That's the kind of safe example rather than like, oh yeah, last week I had an argument with my boss. So just remember, always go back to your milestones. They're there for a reason. I'm not saying they'll cover 100% of things, but I would say in almost all cases you can find something sensible from there to adapt and use. And it's much better than plucking something new out at a time when you're stressed and you're panicking that you don't know the answer. If they don't ask directly which type of colleague, you would need to choose a conflict with another consultant. Um, yeah, so, um, we'll go through the rules of that. Um, Are all drug errors off limits for mistakes? No, they're, they're not. Um, so it will depend. I don't think you want to 10 times morphine dose someone, but you might want— and if you double their dose of paracetamol, no one will care that much. So again, it's this balance between something that doesn't show like you're trying to fudge the example, but also something that they're not like, oh my God, Dawn, what were you doing? If it's a conflict with a nurse when you don't— when you didn't agree over something but it resolved amicably, could it be an example? So one of the things I want you to try and do is always come back to the rules as your first So, most of all of your examples that you use for conflict, I would want you to resolve amicably. So, you shouldn't be sharing any example where you couldn't get things together, because that doesn't show what you're trying to show them. So, choose an example that shows that you can navigate conflict successfully. And navigating conflict successfully doesn't mean being right or digging your heels in. It means doing what's safe for the patient and building good quality relationships with the colleagues that you have to work with. That's what they want to know. So all of your conflicts, you should be resolving amicably. I don't think it looks great to be having a conflict with a nurse, as the example that you're showing. So I wouldn't. Not saying never. Sometimes if you work very closely with nurses in particular specialties, so some people who are doing neonates might work closely with midwives, might choose one. I would generally say don't, but if there's a reason that you want to and you think about it, that's fine. Um, uh, Livia, usually having problems with HR is bad. Yes, anytime HR have to get involved, unless they're offering you a job, probably not something to mention in your interview. Um, and again, not to say it doesn't happen, but not, not necessary. Um, so what's the point of sharing examples? And that's what I want you to think about. Why are you, why are you sharing an example? Why are they asking you it? And it is not to wow them with your great storytelling skills. That is not the goal. But it's to show them how you handle situations, and it's to show them importantly how you're going to be in their team. So when we're in the team and you make a mistake or I make a mistake, how are you going to handle it? If there's an issue between you and another team, how are you going to handle that conflict? Are you going to be bulldozing your way in and showing off that you're right and just throwing your weight around? Are you going to try and resolve it in a nice way, in a way that moves things forward? And so what the type of example you choose to share and then how you explain how you handled it, that's the most important part of the answer. So don't get sidetracked by the being right in an example. And so just always when they ask you an example, always keep in mind, why are they asking? What are they hoping to hear from me? That's your goal of what you're— that's what you're trying to do. So our— the second— and so you've done the how the hell did that happen, Ben. And the second filter to go through is the AYCI examples checklist. Now, this check— most of your examples should have been filtered out by the how the hell did that happen bin. So this is just a little bit of extra to check for any that slipped through that maybe shouldn't be there. So the question to ask is, is it about you? So we don't want an example where 2 of your colleagues were having a conflict and you swept in and saved the day. And it shouldn't be someone else's mistake. It needs to be your mistake because that's what you're being asked. And otherwise it looks like you're trying to throw them off by showing them someone else's mistake. And there shouldn't be any deal breakers. So deal— that would be something that makes you unappointable or unemployable. And we'll go through what these are in a bit more detail. And did you learn something? So this could be a team change. It could just be a reflection. So, don't get bogged down in that, I haven't learned anything. And the idea that you would make a mistake and there isn't a single thing to learn doesn't seem realistic. So, either you're not really— you don't really think it was a mistake if there's nothing to learn, in which case you need to choose another example, or you need to dig deep. Because if you share a mistake and then say, well, there was nothing to learn from it, it again doesn't showcase what you're hoping to showcase in your interview. So, Learning something should be a simple thing to think about. It doesn't need to be a major thing. It could be something small. Erisha, conflict with a patient. Can a formal complaint from a patient that felt unheard consider a conflict whereby I reflect, resolve, and build trust? So that would go in the how the hell did that happen bin. So don't use stuff where patients have complained about you. I know you, in the end, you feel like you've resolved it and it's showing a good thing. And there are elements to that. But then the question is, why are you choosing a complaint? Like, of all the things you could choose, why would you showcase a patient who was so furious that they bothered to send in a complaint? It's just, it's not something that you need to share unless they ask you specifically about it, in which case, of course, you would have to answer it. But don't throw yourself under a bus. Don't dig yourself a giant hole if you don't need to. There's absolutely no need to. So I wouldn't do that. Lila, would it be acceptable if I say that I haven't had any conflict, but I observed a conflict between 2 colleagues and I mediated it? So this is not about you then, so it's not a good example. And what I would say to you is, it's not possible that you've not had any conflict. It's not possible. You've been in medicine for 10 years, whatever it is, you have had a conflict with someone. And it's a bit— if you think about, they're asking you to reflect on conflict that you've had. To answer, I haven't had any conflict, it doesn't— I don't think it makes you look good. I know in a way you think it could make you look good because you've not had conflict. You could say, I'm not used to conflict, or I don't have conflict often, or I'm not comfortable with it. But to say you've never had a conflict, to me, makes me think, well, you're not really reflecting on the interactions you're having with people or how they might be. Portrays or how they might feel. It's senior-level thinking, so you should dig deep. You should dig deep and find a conflict because there will be one there. Okay, so what kind of deal breakers? Things that would put them off. Clinical deal breakers. It's fine to make mistakes, but don't say something that's going to make them think you're not safe. Teamwork deal breakers. You don't want to appear rude, belligerent, constantly critical. This is why you shouldn't Choose conflicts with nurses or your juniors or your bosses. So you don't want to come across as a bad team player. Probity deal breakers, obviously anything— you're not reliable, not turning up to work, no dishonesty— these are not things to share for obvious reasons in your interview. So the 5 examples that you want to choose for this milestone, for milestone 2, are these: a time you had a conflict with a colleague, A time you had a conflict with a patient, a time you made a mistake, a time you did duty of candour, and a time you worked well within an MDT. So each of these, I want you to have thought about them. And remember, when you share them, when you think about them, when you share them on the specific interview support channel, I only want you to share this story. The I, the incident. We'll go through the structure that you can use, but the incident is where you explain what happened. In 2 sentences or less, and then you clearly say, I realized I was having a conflict with a colleague, or I realized I'd made a mistake. And that part is really important, and getting that part right is really important. So I want— these are the 5 core examples that you want to think of. The I part, the incident, the story— these are the 5 examples that you want to think of for your milestone. Uh, Maria missed a cannula in a peds patient. The consultant was annoyed with me. Maria, I don't think this looks good on the consultant. Like, who's going to be annoyed with their junior because they missed a cannula? And who hasn't missed a cannula on a peds patient? So unless there's more to the story, like you— I don't know what the situation could be, but this says more about the consultant than about you. So yeah, I don't know. Is this your conflict or is this your mistake? And if it was your mistake, Be clear. What was the mistake? Did you do something wrong? Or like, because I miss cannulas, so it doesn't mean I've made a mistake. It's just the way it is. So just for all of you, when you're explaining the scenario in two sentences, make sure it's clear. What was the mistake? What was the conflict? Because often we get through the answer, and I'm like, but what what was the actual mistake? Or where was the conflict here? So you have to be addressing the question. Maria, it was an emergency induction. And you miss the cannula in a peds patient, I still don't see why a consultant would be annoyed with you. I think it's sort of distracting thinking about them. So yeah, I probably wouldn't. Can a patient be a parent? They can. Yeah, so patient, family is fine. Depends on your specialty, depends on the situation. That's totally fine. So we're going to go through these examples and just see what kind of ways that you can get safe examples. And just to remind you, these are the 3 filters that you should go through. How the hell did that happen bin, the ACR consultant interview examples checklist, which is, is it about you? Are there deal breakers? Did you learn something? And then your 5 golden examples, which we want you to think about. So the first one that people struggle with the most, which is where you can make yourself look really bad, and we've kind of talked through a little bit of how that could happen. Is the conflict with a colleague. If you follow these 5 rules, you will find a safe example of a conflict with a colleague. Your conflict should be with another doctor, and we've talked about this a bit already, why I don't think it should be with a nurse. I don't think it should be with the physio or the reception or the secretaries or the admin. Should just be with another doctor. It should be someone of the same grade as you. Again, I've sort of mentioned this a bit. Doesn't look cool punching down, second-guessing your bosses. Just, you're— if you're a reg, the conflict's with a reg. If you're a consultant, the conflict's with a consultant. There's no power imbalance, and it's literally just about repairing relationships in the normal day-to-day way that these conflicts can happen because we're working in stressful environments. It should be a colleague in a different specialty. And this is because if you're having an argument with your reg because they're doing too many of whatever procedures or they're not pulling your weight, it makes you look like you're going to be difficult to work with. Whether that is fair or not, and whether that is what happened, it doesn't matter. They're going to be like, this person is having arguments with their fellow regists or fellow consultants. Much safer to choose another doctor of the same grade as you in a different specialty. And make it so that they're annoyed. Choose a scenario where they're annoyed with you rather than you being annoyed with them. And I think we've had a few examples that come up where you're annoyed because the ENT reg isn't doing what you thought they should do. or they haven't properly done something, they haven't properly come when you ask, you need to not be annoyed with them. You want them to be annoyed with you. For example, I work in PEM. We referred a patient to the surgical reg. I was the reg, referred a patient to the surgical reg. They didn't come down for 3 hours. I was worried about the patient. I called up the surgical reg to say, it's been 3 hours, would you be able to come down? And they shouted at me down the phone, why are you guys calling me? This is the 5th time you've called. I'm busy in theater. Stop calling me. I realized I was having a conflict with a colleague. Simple, relatable, not a giant deal. Doesn't make you think Tessa's a terrible person to work with. And whatever you think about the surgical reg doesn't really matter because they're not going for the job. And actually, you realize they're— so in this scenario, the surgical reg is annoyed with me for something that's not my fault. It's not because I've done something terrible. It's a system problem. They're probably stressed, overworked, and struggling to manage their workload. And so, if you can stick to these 5 rules for conflict with a colleague, you're going to have a much safer example. And I know there's lots of ways you could find ways to say, but could I do this? But could I do that? But I really— the safest way is to do this. And the reason is that if you choose each of these, it shows something negative about you that you don't need to show. In your interview. Um, okay, so let's see what's come up for people here. Uh, Swash, conflict with a team. Never written a death certificate for a neonatal palliative case for labor ward for comfort care. Uh, being asked to review the death certificate that had been written by the obstetric team in lieu of the neonatal consultant review, and I declined, stating my lack of experience for this, um, and to await the consultant's review. So there's a couple of things about this. I don't think it fulfills these rules I'm not sure who asked you, is the first thing, who the conflict is with. So I don't know if it's another doctor of the same grade as you. Sounds like they are in a different specialty. They are not annoyed with you, you're annoyed with them for asking you. And so I don't think this is the same kind of conflict. So I don't think this would fulfill the criteria. Now remember, you can break the rules, that's fine, but you want to think about it carefully because the safest way is just to follow these. Muhammad, so these rules, Muhammad, are about conflict with a colleague rather than a patient, just to be clear. But you've said, can the conflict with a patient be that he was abusive to clinic staff and you intervened? Yeah, I mean, remember, it should be about you, so you need to have the conflict. So it doesn't really answer the question if you're not in the conflict and you go and speak to them and they're nice as pie. So just be clear that you're answering the question. This is a similar thing. SHO bullying another SHO and you resolved it. The conflict should be— so that doesn't fulfill these criteria, um, because this sounds like they're in the same specialty as you, they're not of the same grades as you, and also from the AYCI checklist, um, you weren't, you weren't the person who it was happening to. So I don't think this shows resolving a conflict for the, uh, or I mean, it shows it, but I don't think it's a good example for these reasons. Um, Um, is this a suitable mistake? Busy on call shift, postnatal patient had mildly raised BP I asked her midwife if the patient had labetalol, was told no. Labetalol was prescribed. I asked the midwife to confirm no asthma before administering. She checked after and the patient was asthmatic. My mistake is that I didn't check myself. I apologized to the patient and advised could get wheeze, so we will observe. Okay, so first thing, Mandy, is, um, you don't really think this was your fault because it was really the midwife's fault. That's what you're saying, which, yes, I mean, you asked them and they said they hadn't had it and they didn't have asthma. So it's not true. We'll talk about the mistake, but you're not being really vulnerable here because you are telling me that you asked them twice and it was on them. So your mistake is trusting the midwife, which is not a good learning point to take away from it. So it needs to be a mistake that you hold your hands up to. But the other thing about this, which is a common thing, is adding lots of detail. So, busy on call shift is a classic one that people like to say to show why they made the mistake. When you're telling the story, we don't need the whys. We don't need to explain why it happened. We need to just own it. In that moment, you just need to say, I did this. I made a mistake. That's it. So you could cut it down, but I'm not sure that this would really be the best example unless you genuinely do think you made a mistake. In which case you need to just own it in that first bit rather than explaining why it was maybe the midwife's fault. And maybe you're like, I think probably, like, if you ask someone, you trust them, that's fine. Because your learning from that would then be, I don't trust midwives and whatever they tell me, I'll go and double-check it. And that's not really a great way that you want to come across in your interview. So that's why I would say not to do that. Conflict with a colleague anesthetist about risk assessment for a patient for emergency laparotomy and patient fitness for surgery. So Ahmed, I can't remember what specialty you are, but assuming this is not in your specialty, this could be a conflict. But you're missing the key thing, which is you've not explained what the conflict is. So I don't know what's happened. And so sometimes you can leave from listening to an answer and not be clear what the conflict was. You know it in your head, but you need to state it. Your goal in the first 2 sentences is to tell me what the story was and be clear that there was a conflict. But I think there probably is something in this example, so I think you just need to develop it. They were annoyed because I copied— I sent an email and copied the boss. They weren't happy and said why I was letting the whole world know about it. So this is for conflict, kind of. It could be. I mean, I need more. You want to know more here because were you copying in the boss as a passive-aggressive thing? Um, is probably the thing that springs to mind because you were kind of trying to, I don't know, tell them off about something. So just, it probably needs a little bit more, um, information. And just be clear that this isn't— doesn't make you look in a bad light, because the whole goal of this is to make yourself look good even while being a bit vulnerable. That's what you're trying to do. Um, Rima, colleague asked to see patient and request an echo. I examined the patient and he didn't have an indication for an echo. My colleague was annoyed. Yeah, so I think this, this could be, um, I think this is a good example. They're annoyed with you, and then you say you realised you were in a conflict. That's fine. And then the rest of your answer will be, well, how did you make it up and make friends with this person? Because that's basically what you're trying to show. Mistake, you went to discharge a trisomy 21 baby without their postnatal echo. Family were very upset at having to stay in another day to wait. I think this could be a good one. I think you probably can— could explain it a bit better. So as in you told them, yeah, I think I just would like a little bit more. So you said to them you were happy for them to go home, but then something, but then you realize, I don't know, when you, once you'd had the conversation and they were packing up your bag, someone said to you, hang on, they need to get their echo. And you realized you'd made a mistake. So yeah, just, oh, just the, I realized I'd made a mistake. I realized I was in a conflict. It's a good clear way to end the story part. But I think, yeah, that probably could be good. Having any reg being annoyed that I wouldn't review the patient while he was still drunk. Thank you for clarifying that was the patient, not the any reg. I explained our policy and we were able to resolve it. Yeah, I think that would be a good one. I don't know what your specialty is, but that sounds good. Conflict with a patient who approached you due to a long wait. An SDAC. Yeah, so this is very common— patients getting annoyed with us in ED, um, is a good one, safe one, relatable, and you can talk about how you de-escalated. Can they be with the same specialty colleagues but in other hospitals, e.g., in a referral center? Yes. So it's not— yeah, it could be. Um, again, just think about why I've said it. It's so that it doesn't make you look like you're difficult to work with within the team. So, um, again, the only thing to think about is this, is that there is a Power imbalance in that I think from this story you're the tertiary referral center and they're not. And so again, this is like when there's a power imbalance and you're showing that you're right and they're wrong, it might not show you in the light that you want to be shown. So just think about how the examples come across, but it could be fine. Huma, joint CPod case for pelvic pain. Gynae started, the surgeons finished. He did an appendectomy. Conflict as team declined caring post-op and said guy need to manage post-op care and discharge. So I'm not clear that you were having a conflict with someone here. So remember, with each one, just address the question, who was your conflict with? This is probably a bit complicated to follow, so you want to make it as simple as possible. But if you are having a conflict with someone here, then just say what it is. Johnny, I finally found an example. All mine were either with someone senior to me or within the same specialty. Once I had a patient with an infected knee, but ortho thought it wasn't infected and discharged the patient, but then she represented when the infection was much more obvious. So, Johnny, this is a good example that you've shown me because it illustrates something that I want you to avoid, but it could still be a good example. Okay, so the common thing with a conflict is that the focus is on showing that you were right. You were right all along because you thought there was a knee infection. Ortho said no, and in the end it was a knee infection. And this is a very common thing. Tried to get the surgeon to come and see, thought the kid had appendicitis, they wouldn't come, and in the end it was appendicitis. So remember, doesn't matter. Being right is not, doesn't matter in the conflict. The conflict is about your conflict resolution skills. And so when you get into the being right, which is sometimes when people start oversharing the clinical elements to show that they're right, you're missing the point of why they're asking you the question. They're not checking your clinical competency or whether you know more than the ortho reg or whatever it is. They want to know that you can resolve conflict and view it in a senior light, that you're not going to be, oh, bull in a china shop and get out of my way and don't you know who I am? But you want to kind of resolve it and be able to make friends with them and make amends. So, could be a good example. But yeah, I want you to move away from the after part where the patient comes back and the knee infection is worse. And just end with the conflict resolution. You made him a cup of tea, you sat down, you gave him some chocolate, you had a chat, and now you're friends. That is essentially the end. Whatever happens to the patient's knee shouldn't make a difference here. Okay, these are great. So hopefully you're finding it useful going through these examples as well. I'm going to move on a little bit to the others, and then I'll come back to some of these. So these are the rules for conflict with a colleague. Now, the one where people often miss an opportunity is the one where we ask you about a time you worked well within an MDT. And some of you have done this on your, on your answers and your videos. It's common to do it, but mostly, if you're a final year trainee, the easiest thing to do and the thing that you feel most comfortable with about time you worked well as an MDT is when you tell us about a great resus case you managed, or a complex patient that went really well, and you all bossed it, and you all worked well together as a team. This is a good example of MDT working, it is true, but it is also just you doing your job, which you are qualified to do because you have got your CCT or CESR. So you showing that you manage a good resus case well with the team, or you manage a good discussion about a complex case. Is not— doesn't show anything beyond what you should, what you do and what's expected of you. What you want to do is show senior-level thinking, and we will talk about senior-level thinking next week, but it's the difference between you managing the patient in front of you well and your whole service managing everyone in the population well. And so if you instead think about using one of your USPs, and this goes back to the question at the beginning where someone said about USPs and overlap. This is a good opportunity to use one of your USPs that you haven't had a chance to talk about as much as you wanted. And from it, where there was a multidisciplinary team, and from it, pull out 3 themes of why the MDT team worked well. What did you do when you led this project to make the team work well? Shared vision, listening to everyone's view, having clear goals, whatever it is, pull out these themes. It gives you a chance to answer the question, but also— It showcases a USP. And if you think about trying these 2, and you can try different versions of you being a badass running a resus and you leading a team through a change project, you will likely feel that the change project showcases much more senior level. And you can go into it in more depth, and it shows that you're ready to be a senior member of the team. So we'd encourage you, for when you're thinking about a time you worked well in an MDT, to think about using a USP. And then we've got the one that is the exception, as someone identified earlier, which is duty of candor. Actually, duty of candor is the exception to the rules about the how the hell did that happen bin, which is that actually you're demonstrating your skills of duty of candor, and the more significant the scenario is, the better you are demonstrating skills of duty of candor. If it was no big deal and you're telling them, then your skills of duty of candor are just like, yeah, okay. If you're telling them, you know, you left an instrument in the patient or you accidentally whatevered, or some of the team accidentally whatevered, then it showcases your duty of candor skills better. So in this, this is the exception where you should be using a bad mistake, but importantly, it should not be your mistake.

So if you're doing—

showing— using an example for duty of candor, it should not be your mistake. Or if it was your mistake, it is not the time to share it in this. Just cut to the part where you were doing duty of candor. I was on a shift when a patient had— I was the person in charge of the shift when we realized this patient had X. It was my job to do duty of candor. That's the way you should do it. And the reason is that when it's your mistake, You will automatically spend a lot of time explaining to me why the mistake happened. And remember, what the most important thing is that you answer the question they asked. What they're asking is, can you do duty of candor? Do you know the steps? And what's your experience of it? And when you get sidetracked with a mistake, which also leads to over-explaining clinical elements because you're trying to persuade me that you're not that bad, um, then it totally detracts from duty of candor. So when you're doing duty of candor, Bigger example is better, but don't use one where it's your mistake. Okay, let's do a few others. Retained guidewire for CVC, no harm to patient as luckily I clamped, so was able to bring it out without vascular surgery. That was a good escape. Well done. Yes, I think this is a good example. It's relatable, it's brief, and you can say, I realized I'd made a mistake and I felt terrible. That's good. And then you'll go on, it doesn't need more explanation than that. You'll go on and talk about whatever happened after. Conflict with a colleague. You do an MDT clinic with neurosurgery and physio to assess whether children with movement disorder are suitable for a specific type of surgery to help reduce stiffness in the legs. We were discussing cases after clinic and disagreed on whether a patient should be offered the surgery and it got heated. Could be quite a lot of explanation here though, because this is getting down to a clinical debate. And so then you're automatically going to lend to explaining the clinical situation. So if you can keep the focus, I would cut out some of the context and just keep the focus on the conflict. And one thing just for everyone else to bear in mind, that disagreeing about or discussing a management plan is not necessarily a conflict. People disagree about management plans all the time. Medicine is an art as well as a science. You can all chat, you know, that is part of— delivering great care. But in this case, Audrey said it got heated. So it's a conflict. It's not just, I think you should do that. Well, I think the guidelines show this. It's beyond that. So I do think it goes into conflict. Obviously you're bringing in physio, but just keep it simple because there's too many things that I'm trying to follow and think about. And all you want me to be thinking about is how great you are at resolving conflict and not thinking about this story or what should have happened to this particular case. Um, okay, let's do some others. Annoyed because I spoke to the anaesthetist about a rupture topic who needed to bump, uh, the case. He arrived in theatre and thought it was a different case. Lots of crosswords, but then came around. Yeah, that sounds good. Uh, I think that's a good one. Conflict with a patient due to delays of induction of labour. Patient wanted self-discharge. Yep, sounds good. Uh, Conflict with the urology reg when you were a reg. You were waiting for them to review a patient And on further follow-up call, they were very stressed at the way they spoke to you and decided to give a plan over the phone and discharge the patient. Yeah, um, so again, don't stray into why you think they were wrong. Um, so this is about the conflict, but I think if you stopped a bit earlier, I think you've got a good example there. Conflict with a colleague. The surgical reg asked you to consent the patient for a venting gastrostomy in advance. You declined as your policy is not to consent patients for procedures you can't perform yourself. She was annoyed with you. Yeah, could be. I don't— you just need to gauge how the lay of the land would be there. And so clearly in this situation, they thought you might do it. I know technically you're right, but maybe like, it depends how flexible or what the policy is in the team you're applying for. So you don't want to make yourself look difficult or obstructive. I understand it's technically correct. I get that. But just, you want to know the team you're applying for and just make sure that that example is going to land well with them. You forgot to request a test for a patient after clinic review led to a delayed— yeah, a delay. And that's, that's a good example. A mistake. You reviewed the patient in the ward and you made a plan to discharge her if the obstetric scan was normal. The midwife did not discharge her even though the scan was normal. The on-call team could not see her as they were busy, and the patient self-discharged. I felt bad that the message wasn't clear. So I'm not sure what— this is the mistake example. So I think you need to be clear what was your mistake and what sense you made a plan but you didn't convey it to someone, or you made a plan in your head, or yeah. So you just be clear what the mistake is because I'm not sure. But probably, probably is a good one. Shreya, busy emergency list, vascular SPR and surgical SPR were annoyed because they wanted their patients to go first on the theatre list. Explained that you only had one slot and they had to sort it out amongst themselves. Yeah, I think that would be good. So arguments about theatre list space is usually a pretty safe one because it's common. Another doctor of the same grade— see what you did there— covering postnatal ward, insisting on waking mums of newborn babies up at the exact time the rebound jaundice bloods were due. We spoke about how the mums and babies also need sleep for their wellbeing. Reassurance to the doctor. So, Sarah, this is too long for the incident. Should be 2 sentences. But the thing is, you're annoyed with them and you're telling them, you're showing why you were right and they were wrong. And the whole conflict is you raising an issue where you've seen the doctor and they're not— they're underperforming, basically. So it's not— I don't think it's a good example for conflict. because of that reason. But whatever you choose, keep it tight. Should be 2 sentences or less. If you really can't explain your story in 2 sentences or less, then it may not be a good example to pick. Then we've got conflict with a colleague from Tim. Myself and the other post-CCT fellow both wanted experience in the same cases on the same list. It was becoming a source of frustration between us. So, I don't think this is a good example because it doesn't follow the rules, because you're having a conflict with someone who you're working on the team with. And I understand that in the end, you resolved it well, but at this point, when you're choosing the example, it's not the end that you're talking about, it's the story. The rules are about the story, and I wouldn't choose a conflict with someone on the same team as me. I know it worked out okay, but I don't think it's showcases what you want to showcase. Um, Uh, conflict with a colleague. PEM consultant annoyed with peds consultant that overnight an ED SHO called— was called to the ward to catheterize a long-term patient as declined. Male doctor, ward staff upset. This is becoming a recurring problem affecting flow to ED. So I assume you're one of these people, I guess, the peds consultant. So, um, You should be one of these people. The only thing about this is, this is not a small— this is like an inter-team bigger thing where you all need to— there's clearly something going on between these 2 teams. So, it's not just like one person and one person. So, a bigger picture conflict is a bit hard to convey the nuance of in a short interview answer. So, it's not a no, but usually a simpler conflict where you're just, yeah, something's happened in that moment rather than you've got a long history of the teams not getting on. Because it's more— it's a more complex solution. So you could use it, but you need to be in the conflict, and I would just— you need to be able to convey it concisely, which can be hard when it's a complex situation. Okay, loads of great ones there. I'm just gonna pull out another couple. Working with MDT, weekly MDT with surgical tertiary centre to find the best treatment option for patients. Discussion about a few patients who are on the ward. Um, yeah, so I still think a USP is going to be better here. Um, I think it's, it's going to be stronger for you to use one of your USPs than to talk about this. It's not bad, you could, you could use it, but I would use— I would probably choose something else. Um, what else have we got? Uh, Zoom user: duty of candor is having a patient who had been diagnosed and prescribed Ritalin but transferred to our service without notes The parents were very annoyed that they would have to be diagnosed again before I could prescribe. So I think you need to be clear, what are you doing duty of candour for? So remember, it should always be able to easily answer what was the mistake, what's the conflict, what are you doing duty of candour for? So are you doing duty of candour because the notes were lost? I think So then I would just be clear. Patient was transferred to us, the notes were lost, um, I realized when they came to my clinic and it was my job to do duty of candor. That's that. So just be as clear as that, and then there's no question about, yeah, what it was and what happened. Conflict with a colleague. Called the hematologist to accept a patient with an Hb of 40 with menorrhagia and pancytopenia, which was accepted by my colleague mistakenly. Um, the haematology reg didn't agree. So this is a patient that was accepted onto your service by mistake. You were referring to haematology and they didn't want the patient. Um, so yeah, I think that could be fine. Uh, again, is it necessary to add the clinical parts here? Because what you're saying is you were— you're trying to show why you were right. Um, but it's conflict. It's a patient that you— you— that should be under from your point of view, should be under the haematology service, and the haematology reg didn't think they should be, which is fine. It doesn't really matter whether they should or shouldn't, but the problem was that they were rude to you about it. So it's not just that they didn't agree, they have to have been rude to you, and that's a conflict. And that could be— so often it's not that the example's good or bad, it's the way you convey the example. So you're trying to keep it tight, you're trying to keep it concise, you're trying to remove all the unnecessary detail. And when you get a really good example, it is actually really flexible and you can use it for lots of different ways. So it's just for you to be open and thinking about how to convey that example. I'm going to do— so I did put an example there, but it's actually not better than the ones you've given. You've given loads of good ones that we've gone through. So I don't think we particularly need to go through the one I've got. But what you want to do is be able to explain it in 30 seconds and at the end address the question they asked. And you need to just own it. So a common place where people go wrong in a mistake is that they don't own the mistake. They don't really think it was their fault. They really think it was the SHO because they were the ones who got the kit ready, or the nurse because they told you the patient wasn't allergic to something. And so a common way to go wrong in the mistake one is when you're using a kind of but the buck stops with me example, which is that really you don't feel bad about it because it was really someone else's fault, but the buck stops with you because you were the person responsible. I want you to share something that you actually feel bad about. Not enough that you're going to be sobbing in your interview, that's not what we want, but enough that you can actually say, I realized I'd made a mistake and I felt terrible. So don't fudge an example where it's really someone else's mistake but you're kind of trying to sort of pretend it's yours. Um, okay, let's do a couple of others. Um, duty of candor— is a near miss, wrong drugs mixed but not administered, a good example? Maria, you don't have too many questions. You can have as many questions as you want. If I don't get to answer them here, you just post on the specific interview support channel. It's fine, you can post there as many times as you want. This is part of the process. So near miss or wrong drugs mixed but not administered, is that something that you did duty of candour about? I would guess that probably no duty of candour was done to the family with that. If it was, then yeah, it's fine. It's a good example. I mean, I would guess most people wouldn't do duty of candor in that situation. So, you have to have actually done the duty of candor to be able to talk through the steps. And to be clear, the steps of duty of candor that you want to go through are, you apologize to the patient, you explain what happened, you explain the short, medium, long-term consequences of what happened, how you're going to rectify it, you explain that it'll go through the governance process, you offer them a PALS leaflet to complain if they want to, and you have some reflection on how what they said How they responded when you told them this bad news. That is your summary of what you want to go through of the steps of duty of candor. Valentina, working with an MDT, what if we use a USP and then we're asked another question where the same example would also fit? So remember that you should be coming back to your USPs when you— if you've talked about them in tell me about yourself, you've talked for 30 seconds on the USP. But your USP is something that you could stand up and give me a presentation for 40 minutes about. So 30 seconds doesn't do it justice. So what you're doing in this is you're choosing themes of working in an MDT. So it's a different angle, and it will be elements you haven't talked about. If you've literally already used it in an example where you've talked it to death and you don't think there's much else to say, don't use it. Use a different one. And although it feels like, oh my goodness, I'm always going to be coming back to the same one, the way the questions fall, that will not happen. It's just not the way it happens. You'll talk about one twice, probably is the max it's going to be. Mistake during multitasking in clinic. You ordered radiotherapy on the electronic system for the wrong patient, discovered when the patient queried it during the booking process. Apologized and no harm done. Yeah, so Laura, as far as like how significant was this, you are better to judge than me because I'm not in your specialty. So is this a how the hell did that happen bin scenario, or is it fine because you realized, or the patient realized, and you've got good learning from it? So I wouldn't say it's a deal breaker, but if you think the panel are going to hear it and be like, Laura is not safe to have on the team, then it's not a good example to use. So that's part of your judgment and decision-making. And remember, I want you all to trust yourselves. These are guidelines, but trust yourselves. You know your specialty better than me. You know the team you're applying to better than me. I don't know the team you're applying to. So you're trying to make a sensible judgment. And remember also that there's no absolutes. The team will— each member of the panel will have their own opinion. They will not all agree. Some will like some stuff you do, some won't like others. What you're trying to do is not just deliver any clangers that's going to make you look terrible or make the majority of people agree that it was a bad example to use. So that's the goal. So when you're— remember, when you're sharing the story, the incident, I want you to write it in 2 sentences or less. And it should end with the question. I realised I'd made a mistake. I realised I was in a conflict with a colleague. I'm not going to go through this example. You don't need to, like, stress this. A very specific example is just forgetting to send bloods on a patient who was coming back for theatre, and so it was delayed. So it's the same kind of example you've been using. And it was just to think through the process, which I think we've kind of done with a lot of these, of whether it goes in the bin, whether it goes in the checklist, and what else Whether it meets the criteria of the checklist. And also just the examples can be flexible. So run through this process and just think about whether your example is good. Once you've got a good example and tight 2 sentences, then you're going to find it much easier to be able to explain it and talk through it. And when you talk through, this is when you answer a question out loud, we use the IMSO framework, which is incident, mission, steps, Outcome. So the incident is the story; it's the part we've been talking about so far, where you say this happened. I realized I'd made a mistake. That's the part that you want to write down and get feedback on. So if you start writing out the IMSO, we will say we're not going to feedback on the MSO because to do that you want to record the answer. You want to feel what it's like saying it out loud, how the timing is, and so on. So focus on getting your I right. And then on to the next bits. But this is— you're going to go through, this is the story. My mission was to make sure, um, the patient was safe, or, you know, we, uh, got the patient to theatre in time, or I resolved the conflict. The bulk of your answer is actually going to be the steps. It's not going to be the I. And where people go wrong is that their whole I drags out to 2 and a half minutes, and then they've got a little bit for the steps. But the bulk of your answer should be the steps. That's what you're trying to do. And the steps broadly would go through these. Now, I think someone said they can't tick off all the things, and that's fine. This is just a guide for you to think through. You won't use all the steps, you'll use the ones that are relevant. But usually it's something around patient safety, keeping the patient safe, checking on the team and how they're doing, thinking about the department and the rest of your service, thinking about yourself, including some element of the governance process. Uh, some sort of self-reflection on how you handled it, and potentially team learning or change. So you may discard some of these because they won't be relevant for yours, that's fine. This is just to give you a guide of things to think through, but the bulk of your answer should be the steps, it shouldn't be the I. Um, there's a couple more that I'll go through and then we'll do some spotlight coaching. Conflict: recent PICU step-down develops post-extubation upper airway stridor. On-call anaesthetist was annoyed for you. With you for seeking repeated reviews and told me you were overreacting. How delightful. Followed their advice, but also proposed seeking a second opinion from the ENT, who came and identified a critical airway obstruction. So, Sarah, this is a good example, but you are falling into one of the traps we've talked about, which is showing that you were right all along. Because this is, haha, in the end, the ENT came and I was right. They did have a— and that's not the point of what you're trying to show. So actually, if you choose this example, you have to be able to resolve the conflict with the on-call anesthetist. And not just that you've bypassed them, gone to someone else who's proved your point and you were right all along. Because that's not showing what they've asked you the question. You want to be able to make friends with this anesthetist and recognize why it's important to have a good relationship with this anesthetist and think about why the anesthetist might be behaving in that way. and how to resolve it. So your focus is slightly wrong, and that's why a change of focus— so it's not that the example is good or bad, the example is fine and could be fine, but the way you convey it can make a big difference. So you want to just get the story tight, which is the anaesthetist being rude to you essentially, and then you say, I realised I was in conflict with a colleague, and your step should be how to resolve that conflict. Um, that should be the focus. And if you, if you didn't because this anaesthetist was being unreasonable, then it's not a good example to use for how you resolved conflict with a colleague. I'd choose something else. Is this suitable for duty of candour? Patient returning to theatre for intra-abdominal bleed in the night. I explained to the patient and parents in detail post-op, um, apologized, explained reoperation. So this is about— is a complication, um, of surgery suitable for duty of candour. So yes, but you just say, it was my job to do duty of candour. Just say the words, because they're asking, do you know the steps of duty of candour? So I know there's a bit of reluctance just to name the question, but just get into the habit. You say this story, you say the incident, say, I realised I'd made a mistake. I realised I was having a conflict with a colleague. It was my job to do duty of candour, because otherwise you could leave thinking, Do you know that you did duty of candor? Do you know that these are the steps, or do you know what the steps are? And you've just not said the obvious thing. And but yes, I think it's a good example. Um, AM, read duty of candor. Some of the examples in the chat are more like duty of candor style conversations, um, because there wasn't— weren't significant events. Does it show misunderstanding of the principles? Um, should you state that you haven't done duty of candor but give an example of an open and honest conversation about a mistake? So ideally, you've done duty of candor in some big significant mistake that was nothing to do with you, and you can talk about the process. In reality, most of us will not have done that, and so you pick something that is as allied to that as possible. But if you change it and you say, this is just a mistake and we had a mistake conversation, going back to what we've discussed, which is why are they asking you the question? They're asking you specifically, do you know the steps of duty of candor? And if you're just talking about a general open honest conversation about mistake, you won't have gone through the steps of duty of candour. So I think you would be missing what they're looking for. You're at risk of missing what they're looking for. So you could say, "I've never done duty of candour, but these are the steps." That's a possibility. You would definitely score some points. But realistically, these conversations that you're having are versions of duty of candour. They might not be the statutory duty of candour, but they. still a duty of candor conversation where you're showcasing the steps. So I think they're okay. But yeah, ideally you'd have some major duty of candor thing, but you know, you've only got what you've got. You've had an absence. How did you say to consider using USP and example about working well within an MDT? So yeah, your QI project, how you worked, you worked at an MDT, I assume, for your QI project. So 3 themes about how you worked well together. How did you make that MDT work well? That's what you're drawing out. So that's the frame of the answer. When you're doing tell me about yourself, you'll say, I did a QIP that was— I led a team of 5 people, we audited 100 patients, blah blah blah, 80% went to 90%. Um, but in this, you're going to pull out themes of working well in an MDT. I made sure that we valued everyone's input, so everyone brought different skills to the MDT. For example, so-and-so was in this role and they had this skill, and this is how we made it successful. So you're going to draw out MDT themes. That's the, the easiest way to So great, great stuff, and I love seeing you all thinking of these, and hopefully you working through these will help trigger things for you and understand how we're implementing the guidance that we're doing. Remember that we will do this on the specific interview support channel, and just to re-emphasize, just post the I, just post the 2 sentences, sentence I. Don't write out your answers because it's not helping you. So every session, I'm going to ask you For one golden nugget. I know there's a ton of stuff that we've gone through, but I want you to think about one key takeaway and post it in the chat. Okay, let's see what we've got. Put your memorable answers in the how the hell did that happen bin. Solid. Keep the story or the scene setting short. Yeah, you're not being scored on your storytelling skills. The examples are far less dramatic than you thought they should be. Good. So hopefully we've saved you from oversharing. Trying to find a Goldilocks example. It's hard, but that's why you're spending time doing it before your interview. Tasneem, no conflict with the midwife. Yep. Conflict with a colleague should be someone of the same level, and it's about how you resolved it. Yep. It's not about you being right or whatever it is, it's about resolving it with them. Um, being right doesn't matter. Laura, yes, obviously, you know, it does, but not in this scenario. You're showing about conflict resolution. Showcase your senior-level thinking with your examples. Yep. Make sure you're answering the actual question they asked. Nida, yeah, and just make it obvious to them. Sometimes it's implied to you in your head but when you listen to it, you don't understand what the mistake was. The mistake should not be life-changing for anyone. Yes. Choosing good examples checklist. Great. Totally different way of thinking about what makes a good example. Good. Hopefully that'll just start the cogs turning. Be succinct with the story. Emphasize the conflict rather than the difference in management plan. Less dramatic examples. Steps of the process. It's not about the story, it's about the steps. Don't write everything longhand. That is the best takeaway you could take. Don't get yourself writing answers out loud— writing answers down. Say them out loud. Writing them down is not a way to help your prep. It's a way to make yourself feel more comfortable, like you're prepping, but you need to just get on and do it out loud. It's okay for duty of candor example to be a bad situation. Yep, because it showcases your duty of candor skills well. Saying the words, I realized I was having a conflict with a colleague. Yes, I know it sounds weird, but you're in a weird situation. You're being interviewed by a panel of very senior people for a job that you really want. It's fine. Just embrace the weird. Just say it and signpost so there's no confusion. Owning your mistakes. Yep. The interview isn't a therapy session. Yep. You can find your own therapist. This is not the time. Some things can be kept for other environments. Bringing in senior-level thinking and steps and outcomes, Sabrina. Excellent. Okay, so what I'm going to do is just— there's— if you guys need to duck out, it's fine. Anyone can leave at any point. They're free to leave. I'm going to just do some— there's a few people put themselves forward for spotlight coaching. If your question's been answered, that's fine. We can do other people. So I have on here Shweta, Ahmed, Deepa. I'm not sure if you wanted to talk about— you put about USPs, but it's really examples today. But you can post in the chat.

And then Kumar.

So if you guys have something— Shweta, did you have something that you wanted to chat about? Are you here? Let me see.

You are, I think.

Shweta, did you want to turn your mic on and we can have a chat? Maybe you stepped away. Okay, you can let me know if you want to. Ahmed, hey.

Yes, hello.

Hey, did you have any examples that you wanted to run past?

Yeah, I just want one example for duty of candour with you. It's about a patient I have done a transverse colectomy for her, and after the surgery, I have been— one of the ITU consultants called me to come back, and she was— her blood pressure was dropping, and there was some blood in the drain. At the end, I didn't take her to theatre, but I have done a lot of counselling her about, we are going to do a conservative management. If this fails, then we might need to take you to theatre. Could I consider this conversation as a duty of candour to her, being honest to her about the consequences of surgery? Or search for another example.

Yeah, you could. I know what you're saying, like you didn't end up doing it. So it's, do you think you're going through the full steps of duty of candour?

Would you be offering a governance process for this and complaint There's no governance process because I, I, because nothing, nothing harm happened to her. It was hard time for me and, uh, yeah, for, for at least 6 hours to stay with her and see and observe her closely. But I, I spoke to her father and, and to the patient, of course, and, and tell her about the expectation, what the short, long, what the short-term plan, long-term plan, what consequences, all this.

Yeah. Um, I think it could be. I think it could be. You do— it probably would still reference the governance and complaints process because you want to show that, you know, these are steps. They weren't suitable in this case, but you can say you thought about it, but it wasn't— it wouldn't have been appropriate. But, you know, these are the normal steps of duty of candor, because otherwise, if you don't say them, you're potentially— they're waiting to hear it and you didn't hear it.

Yeah.

So it's probably not the perfect example, but it probably is good enough. But I would still mention the other steps. In this so that you're showing that you know them. All right, that's fine.

Thank you so much for that. Thank you.

No worries. Um, okay, I think, uh, Deepa was shaking her head at me, so I think you didn't want to come on, which is fine. And then Kumar isn't here. So if there are— that's everyone who had put themselves forward. So if anyone would like to spotlight themselves to talk through one of their examples just now, you can just post in the chat, just say me please. And we can chat through. Nobody? Oh, I would take from that very happy with your examples. No, that's fine. So hopefully we've gone through— ah, you've got one, Sarah. Yeah, sure. Come on and just unmute your mic.

Yeah, sorry, this is a nurse example, but I just wanted to double-check that it was definitely a bad example. And do not— it's a conflict one. So, was working in— so, was seeing a patient where I thought they needed to stay in because— I don't know, how would you set the scene? But—

It's okay, just say it whatever it is, we can work it out after. You don't need to do it perfectly.

Okay, so, seeing I was seeing a child, a baby, low tone. And there were several options for admitting or letting them go home and bringing back the next day because it was overnight. So, myself and one of the senior nurses were having a discussion about what the best thing to do was. There are multiple different things to consider, sort of mum was a vulnerable adult with twins, not speaking English, pressures of the ward. Staffing, things like that. I thought we were in conflict, but then we decided we would bring it back to what is in the best interests of the patient, and then sort of— and then decided what we would do. But in that moment, I felt like there was a bit of a conflict between our different priorities. Yeah. But I realised their priorities were the flow of the department. My priorities were the clinical well-being of the patient. But there was a middle ground.

I think it's okay. So I know it doesn't— it breaks the rules, but you're like, you've— you've— you're— it's part of it is how you come across when you say it as well. So what you don't want to be is coming across as someone who will not get on with other professions. But you don't come across like that when you're talking about it. You come across like, I'm sure you're very lovely to work with and you all get— you get along with everyone. And so therefore you're not at risk of the thing that you would be worried about with this, which is looking like you're being dismissive. or whatever. You're saying it in a respectful way. So I think potentially it's good. I do think you probably need to work out how you can explain it in a tighter way. Part of the problem might be that this is a bit— this is an involved discussion because you each had valid things to share and then you had to resolve it. And so it naturally makes it more difficult to explain it simply because it's not a simple conflict. And so sometimes that just means it's too complicated to use to do a 3-minute answer for. Because, you know, you need one that you can talk about in 3 minutes and still get in the conflict resolution, because you want to leave yourself enough time to talk about how you resolved it and not have to explain all the clinical background. I feel like it might be possible with this that you could, if you thought about it, you probably could cut out some of the clinical detail, because it would need to be not about the clinical detail of the case and needs to be about how you're resolving it with this person. So yes, I think it does break some rules, but that's okay. I think you could make it work, but definitely you need to tighten down the story part. Does that help?

Mm-hmm.

Okay, good. And then we've got Sabrina. We'll do you and then we will wrap up. Thank you. Oh, Ahmed, actually, did you want to chat as well? Sabrina, if you turn on, and then Ahmed, you did ask to be spotlighted, uh, so let me know. Uh, Sabrina, hello?

Hey, can you hear me?

Can hear you, yeah, go for it.

Yeah, um, so I wanted to talk about a conflict with a colleague, and I was thinking of, uh, I think initially thought of a comp— a conflict in research. And then I thought that there might be a question about clinical setting. And so this is the clinical, and I always find it quite hard where in a clinical setting, if it's not a system issue, where I don't want to come across as, oh, I was right kind of thing.

Yeah.

So basically, this is where it was, obviously, on-call med reg, there was an ED reg, and ED reg called and said, that there is a patient that he would want to palliate.

Okay.

It was a— so essentially, yeah, so the patient had a background of COPD who previously needed NIV and had some frailty, but the patient had a large PE with some hemodynamic instability. So essentially, I said that I actually need to review this patient first, and because it's potentially reversible, I didn't want the patient to be palliated. He was on the phone and he wasn't happy with it. So I basically came down, ensured the patient was safe, had a chat about the treatment and potential risk of treatment. Patient was there, the patient's daughter were there, they both wanted to have the treatment. And I gave the treatment. And then I sat with the ED reg afterwards and talked about why he thought what he thought, and that he was right, that she was I mean, it was not, you know, a black and white thing, but obviously after discussing with the patient, the patient wanted it despite the risk.

Yeah.

And this was the only thing. So it's like, and the ED reg was happy. So there was a conflict resolution. And yes, and a few weeks down the line, actually, because the patient was alive and the patient did go home, We had to talk about it again, and he was happy. But I, you know, I'm not saying that, you know, I was right, but he, he— it wasn't a fun—

Yeah, I know. Yeah, I think there's something in there. Um, but I, I know what you mean. Like, it's about— is about he, he wasn't right because— and he didn't speak to the family, whereas you came and you spoke to the family. So, um, if you can just focus more on how you resolved it with this person rather than the clinical elements of the case you'll probably feel a lot more comfortable about doing it. So you don't feel like you're trying to say that you were right, because actually the ins and outs of why he wanted them palliated or why you didn't, it doesn't really matter. And so often when you just strip out all the clinical info and just say, actually, he was asking you to see a patient because he thought they needed palliated, but you came and reviewed the patient and you didn't agree. What was the conflict? I don't know, he's annoyed with you, he's pissed off, he's shouting, whatever it is you need to say, like, what's the conflict? And then the focus is then how you resolve that with them. And so it could be a good example, but if you get bogged down in the clinical stuff to show about why you were right, that's where I think you kind of can go off tangent. So don't discard it, I think it could be good, but just try and tighten it and stay focused. I think it'll make it stronger. Okay. Now, I am— Kai, I'm going to bring you on even though I know we're running a bit over because you've said you wanted to chat and I like chatting to you guys. So do you want to— here we are. I'm going to spotlight you. Do you want to tell me what you wanted to chat about? Can't hear you, unfortunately. You can post it, you can post it in the specific interview support channel if you can't get your mic to work. Okay, I think that in that case, we will wrap up there. So hopefully you find it helpful. Post your examples on the specific interview support channel. We'll go through them. You can post as many as you like. Stick to the eye, keep it tight. Um, it's been fun and I shall see you guys on Circle. Thanks everyone.