Ep 13: The Secret To Acing Your Online NHS Interview (Even If Tech Fails)

Hello and welcome back to our Asia Consulting Interview Podcast. Hi, Becky, how are you?

I'm very well, thank you. It's lovely to be here.

Great, it is. Let's get going. So we've got our question of the week, which is a question that one of our Academy students has posed to us. So what's our Academy student question of the week?

So the question of the week this week is, I have an online interview coming up. Have you got any tips? I think they've come to the right place.

I think so. So how commonly— like, we still see people getting online interviews, even though it was kind of like a COVID thing, but then actually, obviously, everyone's realised it can be quite convenient. So it does happen that interviews are online. I would say, I think the majority of them are face-to-face now, would you say? But the vast majority, I would say.

Yeah.

Maybe 10%. 10 to 15%, I think, probably online. So it does happen. And yeah, it's definitely harder to get, I think, to show your best self interview-wise when it's online, because you're not there in person to build that connection in the same way and to read the room and to, I don't know, like make them warm to you as much. So you definitely have to work harder to do it online. But I would remember that everyone is in the same boat. So, assuming you didn't choose to do yours online, but assuming that everyone is doing an online interview, they're all going to have the same issues as you are around how to build that connection online. So, it's important to remember that. I think, well, the biggest thing that we see go wrong with online interviews is tech fails, right?

Oh, gosh.

And that's really stressful because people prepare, prepare, prepare for an interview. They're stressed, they're nervous, everything's to come into this moment for their dream job. And then the microphone doesn't work, or their slides don't share, or the Wi-Fi drops out, which we have seen happen many times. And you just— it throws you. You're not going to do well. You can't get your confidence back, even if you can get back into the virtual room. And it's a shame. I think it's a shame because you don't get to concentrate on the hard work you've done. So, I think the biggest tip would be, make sure your tech is working before you go into the interview.

I think that's really important. So, that means that ideally, you're at home with your either, you know, an Ethernet connection to your internet, or you've got really good Wi-Fi, or if your home Wi-Fi is a bit dodgy, just go somewhere else. If you need to pay for a at some office space that's got outstanding Wi-Fi for an hour, just do that so that you know that it's okay. And then, you know, just get there ahead of time and practice and make sure you're fully settled in. And then I also do think it's worth just thinking a little bit about what you look like in the frame. So, you know, make sure that you're center of the frame, that you've got, you know, your head in the right place, that, you know, your eyes are—

if you kind of divided the screen into thirds, your eyes are on the third.

That's not a metaphor, is it?

You've actually got your head in the right place.

Head in the right place. No, not literally in the frame, not as a metaphor. But also, you know, we see people online all the time, and you can, like, see about that much of their head, and, like, it's absolutely not the look that we're going for. So, you know, that kind of stuff does matter. Think about what's going on in the background, you know, just tidy it up a little bit if it needs to be tidied up. Take your pants off the radiator.

Yeah, you don't want your washing hanging behind you.

You know, it does matter. We don't want the panel to be distracted by the stuff that's going on behind you. And, you know, you mentioned slides just now. If you're on, you know, any form of online platform, just for heaven's sake, make sure that you know how to use it. So if you're going to be required to share slides, have a few practices with some of your mates on what, you know, if it's Zoom or Teams or whatever the platform is, Sharing the slide, making sure that you can still see you, sharing the right part of your screen, all of those kind of things, so that you're not faffing about not being able to find it when the time comes, because that's just hideous, and it really throws you off.

Yep. And I know we could do a whole episode just talking about tips for online interviews, but just one other thing is the eye contact part, because I think when people are using, depending on where your camera is on your computer, You might be looking at them, or you think you're looking at them, and that is not where the camera is. So you end up looking away the whole time, even though you're looking at their faces on the screen. And actually, because you can't be there in person, you can't build that connection with them. The only way you have to like actually reach them or see them is to look down your camera at them. So even if you have to look away for whatever reason, just remind yourself. I always advise people just to get a Post-it note and draw a big arrow on it and stick it at the where the camera is to remind yourself just to look back there, even if it's a. Every so often so that you're— you can feel as much as you can that you're actually talking to them.

Yeah, absolutely. Um, and we spoke just briefly last week about, um, taking notes into the interview and having a couple of notes available to you if you're online. Absolutely, that— I think that is fine, but it— you should confine it to a few Post-it notes with some bullet points on. It shouldn't be, you know, a 40-page Google Doc that you're scrolling backwards and forwards through. Every time you get an answer. So it should be stuff that feels like a bit of a, you know, a safety blanket for you, but not a distraction.

Yep, solid advice. Okay, shall we go on to the golden example of the week? So this week we're looking at one that is a conflict with a patient example.

So the golden example this week is that the student was checking X-ray results and found a child who had had a Fracture, and the student had to phone the mum about this mixed missed fracture, and the mum was really angry on the phone, and that was the conflict that the student had to de-escalate. What do you think?

Yeah, this is nice. I think it's relatable. We've all been in this situation, and even if you're not in this specialty, you'll have been in a similar situation, having to phone someone about a results problem and them being annoyed about it. So, I think it's straightforward. It's easy to understand. And I think we've discussed in a previous episode about how this conflict with a patient one is quite easy to find good examples. As long as you don't go into something that's too complicated, that needs lots of explanation, or too dramatic, then you're probably onto a winner quite easily. And this is a great one because, yeah, it doesn't need more than a couple of lines. And then you can get on to the main part, which is, How did you resolve this? Because it's not unreasonable that they're annoyed about it. So how are you going to settle things down and get it resolved?

Yeah, absolutely. So I think you're right, it's important that we don't get bogged down in the clinical detail. So you'll notice that, you know, this student didn't tell us it was this type of fracture, and that should have been immobilised on the day, and actually it would need this and it would need that, and it's probably going to take 6 weeks to heal, and I arranged some fracture clinic. It doesn't matter.

But in a way, they can talk through that after. Like, when they're talking about the resolution, they'll explain to the mum, this is what we're going to do, this is what's going to happen. But you need to get to the point in your answer, and the point is, where's the conflict and what's the story? And so, this part needs to be short and to the point, which is, yeah, exactly why you don't need these details in there.

Yeah. And then, because then the setup can be, A time when I had a conflict with a patient is that I had to phone a mum to let her know about a missed fracture for her child. When we got on the call and she heard this news, she was really angry and she was shouting at me. I realised that I needed to de-escalate this conflict. That's all you need in terms of a setup.

Have you done this before?

I know, I might actually consider doing this. So, and then you can talk about the steps of de-escalation. So we didn't get bogged down in all of the ramifications around the fracture itself. What did you do to de-escalate it? How did you explain it to the mum? And how have you managed to, you know, settle things down and maintain a nice working relationship where she still has some trust in you and the system? That's all that you need to do.

Okay, we're going to go on to the interview question. So this is where we're going to take a classic interview question and break down how you would address it. This week we We have the question, how do you manage your time effectively? What are your thoughts on this one?

I don't mind this as a question. I think it comes up with some regularity in some kind of format, and I think that what the panel is looking for is that you are somebody who, as a senior person, can manage competing demands. In the workplace, and also that you are somebody who's not going to get so bogged down and overwhelmed by it that it's going to break you. So I think the key point is to show that you've actually got a strategy for managing your time, competing demands, working to deadlines, and also maybe scheduling in some kind of time off for you.

I think the way to do this well is to be really specific with it, because there's a tendency to talk in broad principles. Well, I prioritize, or, well, I make sure I switch off at the end of the day. But actually, to develop this answer, the best way is to say, for example, I prioritize my tasks. For example, last month I had 3 deadlines for this and 2 for this, or whatever it is. And so I tried to do X, Y, and Z, and just really explain a specific example of how you applied this, because I think that helps take it from the theoretical to the real. And I think this is a fairly easy-ish question. Most people would be able to come up with something sensible, and it usually comes probably earlier. I feel like it's an ease you into your interview kind of question before you get to the really hard stuff towards the end.

Yeah.

So, you should be doing this well, and it's an easy one to prep. But definitely bring in specifics.

Yeah, so I think, you know, you might have, for example, managing your time effectively. You might have something like, I have some key strategies around scheduling my time. I've learned how to delegate effectively. And then, you know, something around making sure that I schedule some time for me. And actually, I heard a student answer this really nicely recently in a mock, and for the delegation part of off the question, they said, um, for example, when I was recently doing my, um, uh, quality improvement project on X, and they explained what the project was, one of the things that I did was divide up the tasks and then I delegated them to this person, this person, and this person. And that actually provided a nice opportunity for them to take some specific responsibility and to, you know, grow as a result. And I had some really nice feedback that I Uh, you know, that I'd given them a nice, um, opportunity to be involved in a project. Um, you know, and that actually, that is a really nice way to be specific around a certain thing that you do, and it's really brought it to life. And you've now managed to show that you're somebody who provides opportunities for others as well.

Yes, and you get in a USP. You could definitely get in a USP or 2 there in this where you're talking about how you manage your time effectively through The examples of projects that you've done. So, yeah, I think that's great.

Okay then, I know that this is a subject close to your heart. Would you like to discuss your tips and tricks on putting P at the start and why camp is dead?

Camp is dead. Well, let's start with why camp is dead. We are not fans of camp in the Academy, are we? And we, my particular Bugbear is this putting the P at the end, which is which is what I learned as well when I was back prepping for interviews. And it's like something that we've done for years and years. You go through your whole CV camp, you do your all the other bits, and then you feel you have to say something personal about you, which inevitably is a hobby. You know, I like horse riding on a Tuesday, or I have a hamster called Fred, and you just add in some random. weird hobby or fact. It seems a bit silly because what is the point of it? What do they actually learn by hearing about your pets or your hobbies or your musical talents? I don't think it really helps in the way that it's intended. It's intended to show them something about you, but it's just showing them a fact. about you, it's not really showing them about the type of colleague you're going to be. So, um, I really don't like the idea of putting it at the end and of it being P for personal, and that personal bit is a hobby. So, we flip it on its head and we put the P at the start, and we have the P being passion. What is it that connects you to the job? Um, and it makes a massive difference when people do this. What do you see— like, when have you seen it done really Well, Becky, and what, what do you think the benefits are?

I think that the key point about this passion section is that what you want to do when you very first get into the interview in your first question is to really build a connection with the panel. Um, so you want them to see that you are a warm, authentic human and somebody that they can see being on their team. And you've got to, you know, you've got to develop that rapport, and it's just— and it's got to be something that comes from the heart. So I think when it's done well, people say, you know, I, I worked here as a trainee, um, it's where I gained my love of this specialty. You converted me into being, um, somebody who wants to do X, whatever that X specialty is. And this is a team that I feel incredibly supported by. I love the work that you do here, or the particular patient demographic, or whatever it is. And that's why I want to come back and work here. And then you can step them into it.

It's so nice, isn't it? How nice is it for the panel to hear that at the start of the interview?

Yeah.

It's just lovely. It doesn't need to take a long time. It should just be, like you said, a sentence or two. But it's a beautiful thing. If you can say it, it's a beautiful thing. And if you think about the chair of the panel, the lay chair or the chief exec, who don't know you, they're going to love that. And it's genuine, it's authentic, and they will know that you are there because you know the team and you love the team and you want the job. And that just sets off the whole interview on a really nice tone. And also, you will relax because you're talking about something that is Genuine, and you're showing how much you care.

I think the thing about it is that it shows that you want this job, not just a job. And I think it kind of develops that rapport. And also, you know, let's be honest, it kind of flatters the panel a bit about, you know, you're so great, and it has to be this place. This is the job of my dreams. Um, and so I, I actually think that it's much warmer, much more authentic, it's more relevant to, um, the interview. And actually, it's— I think it's much more kind of professionally mature to do that in a consultant interview than it is to tell them about a random hobby that's not related to, um, you know, to, to the job.

Yep. What— yeah, what hobbies would be related to the job?

Well, exactly. Is there one? I don't know. I can't think of one.

But also, I think, is, um, not— it is from the heart. It is, uh, something kind of immeasurable. And so, what you shouldn't do is lead with something about the job spec. Because saying, well, I've read the job spec, looks amazing, and I really wanted to apply here, that's a disconnect thing. It's, in a way, that's the opposite of emotional connection that you're trying to achieve, because you're saying, well, I meet all the criteria, therefore it's the perfect job for me. So, we know that you meet the criteria, that's why you're in the room. So, only— this is for doing something that is from the heart. And you don't have to do this, you don't have to do the PE, but I think if you do it and talk about the job spec or the person spec, it kind of negates the reason for doing it. So, I would avoid that. And so, that— go on.

Sorry. I was just getting all excited. I was gonna say, I was gonna say, don't also— don't make it about the trust. So don't talk about the trust values.

Trust values, no, doesn't matter. Also so disconnected because we know no one really— the trust values are not something that are from your heart. I'm sure you feel them in your heart, but you didn't join the trust because you love the trust values. And you, you— yeah, you didn't join because you the person's spec. You want to know why you're going there. And it's, yeah, so I'd avoid these things. And even though, you know, I'm a massive dog fan, you just, you don't need to tell them about your pets. So, definitely skip that.

Yeah, absolutely.

Good. Great. Okay. I think we will wrap up there. We have plenty more to come in future episodes. And next week we're going to chat about loads more, including How to include things that you might think about discarding because they're from a long time ago in your career, but actually there are ways to include them and still make them valuable in your interview, and we'll talk about that then. So, thank you very much, Becky.

Right. Chat soon.