Ep 28: What to Say About Non‑Linear Training When You’re Asked “Tell Me About Yourself”

Welcome back to our Ace Your Consultant Interview podcast. Very excited to be here for another week with Becky. Hi, Becky.

Hello. Great to be back.

So we're going to kick off with our student question of the week. So what question have we got this week from one of our Academy students?

So the question is, I'm worried about nonlinear training. How do I answer if they ask me about this directly?

Okay, so it's not likely that you're going to be asked directly about it in a substantive interview because everyone should get the same questions, but it's quite likely you'll get asked a question about your experience, tell me about yourself, so it has an opportunity to come up. I think nonlinear training, it depends what that means, but usually it means you've not just gone through a training program like the average person. I think it's a massive advantage and not a disadvantage. at all. I may be slightly biased because I didn't do linear training. I went off and trained overseas and then came back and so on. But, and there's plenty of people who have trained overseas who think it's a disadvantage because they feel like, I don't know the NHS, I've only been in the NHS for a few years. But actually, that feeling of not knowing the NHS is a fear of not knowing the governance stuff and the patient safety stuff, which actually every final year trainee has when they start prepping for their consultant interview. So, it's not because you've not been in the NHS, it's just something that you don't need to think about until your consultant interviews. But actually, the experience that you've got from training elsewhere is excellent, and it actually adds to what you're bringing to the team. What you need to do is to be able to work out how to demonstrate that experience. And that's usually best through numbers and a clear objective explanation of what you're doing. and what you did. Because one of the things that's really important to remember is, if you've worked— I trained in Sydney. If you've trained in Egypt or somewhere, you have to just assume that the panel has no clue what it looks like to train in Sydney or to train in Egypt. They're just going to be imagining what they think it is or what they think it looks like. But you're not going to be doing justice to the experience you're bringing unless you can objectively describe it. I looked after, I don't know, 20 patients with X condition. We had, I saw 40 patients a day coming into the ED. There was 12 trauma calls a day or whatever it is. And then you're really understanding, okay, right, I get what they were doing. And that could be procedures, number of clinic patients, but something that isn't about the hospital. You're not saying the hospital sees 50,000 people annually, but what you're trying to do is show your experience. So what did you see? and what is your experience? And that, if you can demonstrate that, then you're bringing something excellent to the team. And it's not a disadvantage at all. And there's no question about your clinical competence in a substantive interview because you've been signed off, you're there in the room because you've got your caesarean. You might not have done CCT, but you did a caesarean and that process is recognized. And that's why you're eligible for the job. So I think And then the second part of that is having a mindset shift for you, which is instead of thinking, this is a bad thing because I didn't train here and they all want someone who trained here, that actually when you see it as an advantage, your confidence boosts, you're able to show, like, feel good about what you're telling them, and that will come across in the interview as well.

Yeah, I think that is a key point. We don't go into interviews apologising for stuff.

Yeah.

And, you know, highlighting things that we perceive as gaps. And because actually, as you say, this is not a gap, and it's quite the reverse. But what you have to do, in the same way as anyone else has to do, is to demonstrate to the panel that you've got the appropriate skill set to do this job now. And so when you're describing your training or your experience to date, it's less about a chronology, I did this, I did this, I did this, and more about, um, these are the skills that I've got, um, this is what I've learned, this is what I can do for you. Um, and so I think, yeah, as you say, it's just about that mindset shift. Um, this is, this is not a downside, this is an advantage, as long as you show it as such.

Yeah, it's a good reminder about the heart sink that you feel when someone starts taking you through their their jobs from start to finish. First I did this, I was in med school here, then I did medicine.

Yeah.

And you're like, no, this is not what you need to do. You're not reeling off the chronology. They don't need to know you worked here and then there and then there and then there. It's a curated version of what you feel is additional that they need to know about you, given that they know that you're eligible for the job. What extra are you bringing compared to the average trainee applying? And if you have had a nonlinear training path, then you are bringing a lot that is different from the average trainee who's applying, and that is a great strength, and that's what you want to bring out.

Yeah, talk me through your CV does not literally mean that. It doesn't mean, so I went to secondary school in—

We've not had anyone go that far back.

But I have had people talk me through, you know, how they decided to go to med school and so on, and actually Whilst some of that may be interesting, I'm sure it is interesting, it's not relevant right now because the panel don't need to know that bit.

No. So think carefully about what parts you choose to include and why you choose to include them. Okay, next up we've got a golden example of the week. This is an example that one of our students has suggested, and this is a mistake example. So, the example is that they were doing the admin, managing a complaint that had been given to the service, and there was a— one of their trainees was involved in the complaint. And so, they emailed the trainee to tell them that they were involved in the complaint. And the trainee was caught off guard, I think, and very upset about it. And they realised that actually, yeah, the mistake was that they shouldn't have just emailed them out of the blue. What do you think about this as a mistake example to use?

Oh, it's a bit— oh, ouch. I mean, you can kind of see it from both sides, can't you? You can probably see, you know, the person who was managing the complaint was probably like, I've got to get this started. Yeah, you know, the clock's ticking on this response. I better just get everyone involved. And the trainee who opens that email and says, somebody's made a complaint about you, that is the email that everyone doesn't want to read.

No, and we've all been on the receiving ends of the emails. Do you remember this patient you've been, you know, this patient ended up with X, Y, and Z, and now this has happened. And you're like, inevitably, it's when you've checked your emails on holiday, which by the way, you should not do for this reason. And then you're just like, very stressed about it. So, I think the impact on the recipient is significant. And when you're in the position of delivering that news, it seems less significant because you know other things like, you know, well, we think it's fine, or we're going to respond in a particular way. And I'm just letting them know. But I think, yeah, you really need to be sensitive to the person receiving the information.

So, in that regard, I think it's actually a really good example for the mistake, because, you know, as we were talking about in the last episode, you know, we want something that's relatable. You know, clearly nobody died as a result of this email.

Yep.

But it has caused some consequence. And I think the key point around this is this person who uses this as an example then needs to really own it. As soon as I— the trainee told me how devastated they were, I felt absolutely terrible. I reflected on what it would have been like for me to receive that email. And, you know, I massively apologised, and these are the steps that I took to rectify it. This is what I've learned from it. That's actually a really great answer because you're demonstrating some vulnerability, some reflection, some learning. It's everything the panel needs to hear.

And just like it's relatable thinking about being on the receiving end of it, it's also relatable being delivering something that maybe in retrospect you realise actually you could do it differently and you could do it better next time. And that is the way that you learn and move on. So I agree, I think it's nice. It's definitely showing vulnerability, but not with any kind of massive consequence. So yeah, great example. Okay, next we're going to look at an interview question that someone's been asked. We have an interesting one this week, which is, what would you like people to say about you as a consultant? I think this is quite like, yeah, it's quite a thought-provoking one. It's probably not your average question and would definitely make you kind of pause. So, what do you reckon? How would you choose to approach this?

Um, I think my initial reaction would be, oh my God, I haven't prepared for this question! Yeah.

But then you'll remember to breathe.

Exactly. Then I'm going to use my pause.

Yes.

Um, and actually, what, what you need to do when you get any kind of question like this, you think, I haven't prepared for this, Just think, what else could this question mean? Because often, you know, there's only a limited amount of questions they can ask you, really. So, I think this might be a question about values. It's probably a question about, you know, showing who you are in a team. It's probably also an opportunity for you to get some stuff out there about, you know, maybe one of your USPs, or just sort of modelling a little bit about who you are. and an insight into who you are personally. So, I actually think if you kind of just quell your panic for a minute, just think about, you know, how you could flex your other examples and other questions that you've prepared for, you can probably answer this really nicely.

Yeah, because it's a question about nice stuff. It's not a question about bad stuff. They're not asking you for your weakness or your negatives and all of this. They're asking you to say something, well, I mean, they're giving it open for you to say something nice. You'd like people to say something nice about you, so what would they say? And there's definitely a thing between being specific and being vague. And so I always tend towards the specifics. If you say, well, I'm really nice, or I'm really nice to work with, and actually I've got really good feedback, or, you know, people are happy to see me, is quite vague. But you could say, well, I like to think people would say that I'm able to work effectively in a team to bring about a change. For example, like you said, here's my USP where we did this and we all worked well together and we had a successful project. So there are ways to say something nice about yourself, but bring in specifics to back it up.

Yeah. And I think this is a great opportunity to Yeah, I think just because it feels like a nice warm fuzzy question, don't answer it in a fuzzy vague way.

Yeah.

Um, you can still, you know, you can still use the strategy, break it down into 3. So, you know, I'd like people to say I'm compassionate, I'm a good educator, and I'm somebody who gets things done, whatever. And then say, so in terms of, you know, compassion, I put my patients at the centre, you know, insert example with nice patient feedback. Um, in terms of education, you know, insert USP around teaching. And in terms of getting stuff done, put a project in there. Yeah. Um, you know, and then that wraps up, you know, some nice examples, gets a few USPs on the table, probably demonstrates some trust values as well. Um, you know.

Yeah, that's great. And it's so much stronger than just saying, well, I'd like them to say I'm Reliable and I'm nice to work with and, you know, I'm hilarious. It's a bit meh. Yeah, yeah. And it's hard to back these things up because you're just using sort of— you're just trying to persuade them that you're great, whereas if you can use specifics, it's much stronger. So yeah, great question.

It is. I actually quite like it.

Okay, so we're going to go on to our tip and trick of the week, and the tip and trick this week is around Practising and what environment you need to be in to get it right so you can make sure everything's just perfect so that you can get going with practice. So what is your advice here?

No, practise wherever you are.

Yep.

For our private tier students, I've been reviewing lots of videos this week and several people have been have just been sending a video from the car.

Yeah.

So, either just as they're about to get into work, I think they're kind of talking to themselves on the way to work, answering a few questions before they get out of the car in the car park. They just do a video answer and send it. That is a great way to practise. And I think when you're tight on time and you're managing, you know, difficult rotas, on-call, family commitments, whatever else you're doing, you can find 5 minutes once a day to Just think through an answer and say it out loud, or record it, or send it to a friend, or whatever you want to do, but just do it wherever you are. Don't wait for the conditions to be perfect because they won't ever be perfect.

Yeah, you don't need to be cleaning up your kitchen or waiting for a free afternoon. Just get on and do it. We've had people send us videos from quite a range of places, haven't we? So, we've had people on holiday, up mountains, on We've had some in— we've had a few from the beds in the pyjamas, I think, as well.

Yeah.

We've had some just out the shower, but still clothed though, which is good. So yeah, it really doesn't matter where or when, it's just about getting it done. And sometimes those bits in between, just when you've, you know, you've got that moment, you've just got into your pyjamas, it's a good time to practise, or just in the car before your shift. And that's what you want to do, is just get on and do it.

Yeah, it's interesting because, uh, somebody who posted a win yesterday, um, who got, who got her dream job yesterday, she had got a mate, um, um, also in the Academy, and they'd been practicing, get this, from 6 till 6:45 every single morning.

Wow.

They carved out the time because that was when they could do it.

Okay.

So you might want to do that. You know, you hold yourself to account, um, with a friend or somebody else who's practicing for an interview and just say, this is what we're going to do and we're going to make each other do it. Yeah. But you've got to just find a way that works for you. There's no such thing as perfection when it comes to this.

No. And if you wait for perfection, it's procrastinating. You will just never get started. And the more you do it, the more you won't care where you are, if you're in your car, if you're whatever. It doesn't, it won't bother, it won't matter to you because it just becomes easy and you become more familiar with it. Your answers will get better because you'll be more experienced. So, yep, get going. No excuses.

Right now.

This is it. This moment. Stop, stop the podcast. Okay, great. So, I think that brings us to a close this week. So, it's been very lovely talking to you. We're going to be back next week with another episode and we're going to look at questions around what happens when you're trust has had some negative CQC feedback, how you're going to deal with that. So we'll chat about that next time. See you there.