Ep 31: Elevate Reg-Level Stories to Consultant Superstar Status – Without Faking It

Welcome back to our Ace Your Consultant Interview podcast. I am here with Becky. Hi, Becky. Good to see you.

Hi. Great to see you.

Let's get going. So first up, we're going to look at a student question of the week. This is a question that one of our Academy students has posed to us. So our question of the week that we've got is, my examples are feeling very registrar level. How do I make them sound like consultant-level answers without making things up?

Yeah, this is quite a common concern, isn't it? Because, you know, we want people to sound like they've got consultant-level thinking, that they can kind of operate at that more senior level. But if you've never done it before, how do you do it? So, I think this is about choosing the right USPs and projects to demonstrate what you're trying to show, and to really think about times where you've thought about more than just this one patient in front of you, or maybe even more than this area of the department, or this particular episode of care, and thinking about a time, or hopefully more than one time, where you've effected system change or thought about processes or involved other teams and departments so that you can show that you're just kind of taking that step Step up in that bigger picture view.

I think that one of the things that often final year trainees worry about is that they're up against people who are consultants who actually are doing the job or know what it's like to be a consultant, and they feel like they don't know what it's like. And so feel like because everything, every task they did was as a reg, that they can't demonstrate senior-level thinking. But one of the things we really try to emphasise is that you can have done a task As a reg, when you were a reg, and you can still draw out senior-level elements of it. Actually, the task itself is probably not senior or junior level, it's thinking about what skills you use to get the task done, like working with teams, thinking about flow, thinking about cost saving, making sure people meet deadlines, or you've all got a shared vision. These are all senior-level thinking elements of projects. Even if you were the reg. So, yeah, I think separating what grade you were when you did the role from the actual things that you're trying to demonstrate can probably help with that.

Yeah, and I think, I guess I'm just kind of thinking about particular projects that people might have done. So, say you've designed a new SOP, a standard operating procedure, for your department, or a new pathway for your patients, and maybe you're involving other teams in that pathway. So there might— maybe there's a sort of primary care element to it, so that you've had to interface with GPs and understand what they need, maybe do some teaching. And maybe then that patient pathway goes beyond your department into somebody else's department or involves—

Yeah.

Radiology, or whoever else, that now you're thinking across the system. So, actually, that, by definition, is systems-level thinking. And actually, it's just about drawing out those bits, rather than just thinking about your bit and how it affected your department. You will have done this stuff, it's just that you probably didn't think about it at the time. Yeah.

Yeah, and I think being the reg rep on a something committee is often one that people think, well, obviously I was a reg. You're literally there as the reg, the trainee rep on whatever committee. But actually, this is really good potential to show senior-level thinking because you were representing a group of people. So thinking about who were you representing, how did you get their views, and how did you then advocate their views to a senior team? team, and then what happened when you had to take feedback either way to either group to say things that maybe they didn't want to hear or feedback on stuff. That's really senior level, even though the actual role is specifically you have to be a reg to do it. There's loads of scope to show senior-level thinking, even though you're a reg, and it's absolutely not about making things up or pretending to be something that you're not. In the end, they know you're a reg. They've shortlisted you, you're in the room, so you're not trying to be someone else, but you're just trying to make the most of the stuff that you've got.

Yeah.

Okay, should we go on to the golden example of the week? This is an example that one of our students has suggested they use. What have we got this week?

So, this is an example of a conflict with a colleague. So, the student is the gynae registrar, and they've been asked to go and see a patient in ED. Because they're pregnant and they've come in with some back pain. The student took the details from the ED clinician over the phone and felt that it sounded like pyelonephritis, and therefore said that they didn't need to see it because it wasn't likely pregnancy-related. This led to conflict between them and the ED consultant, which they then had to settle down. What do you think about this as an example?

Well, it's quite relatable in that, yeah, I mean, it probably happens often, or a version of this happens. So I think it's very understandable. I think it probably needs to be clear what the conflict was. So just this, it's probably, I think it's probably fine to use, but they just need to be clear. How did the conflict, was it that who was getting annoyed at who? Because in this description, we don't know. yet. So, I'm assuming the ED consultant was annoyed that they wouldn't see the patient, rather than them being annoyed at being asked to see a patient with pyelonephritis, or who clearly has pyelonephritis, or whatever. And one of the things we sort of try to emphasize is that a good conflict with a colleague example is where they're annoyed with you, rather than you being annoyed with them, because it makes you look kind of intolerant, grumpy, judgy, slagging off your colleagues. So I was actually doing— this week I did the curriculum session, the live session with our Academy students about choosing examples, which is one of my favorite sessions because we get to hear all their great examples. And actually, the conflict with a colleague one, I think, is one of the ones that people find hardest to come up with, a good one, because it's so easy to pick one where you were just really annoyed with someone. SHO wasn't doing their job, or one of my registrar colleagues wasn't doing enough procedures. And then it just makes you look questionable. And so with this, we just need to make sure that the ED consultant is annoyed with them. That's not because you can't get annoyed with people, because we all get annoyed with people from time to time. Even we do. Even you do, Becky.

Even I do.

From time to time, even me and you get annoyed with people. But the question is, what do you want to showcase about yourself in your interview? And you don't want to look judgy or like you're not going to be nice to work with. So it's much safer. It's not that you can't use that, an example where you're annoyed with someone, but it's so much safer to use an example where they're annoyed with you. And this is a good one because this patient isn't suitable for this specialty referral, and they're saying no, but the ED consultant is getting crossed down the phone. And so, that's something that's not their fault, but that someone's annoyed with them about. So, I feel if you kind of were clear about that, it could be a good example. What did you think?

Yeah, I think it needs careful telling, like all of these examples. Because you're right, if you come across as like, oh, I can't believe you called me about a patient who's clearly got pyelo, and I can diagnose that over the phone. I mean, honestly, how do you sound? And I think you've got to be somebody who comes across as being collegiate.

Yeah.

And I think there's an element of, you know, actually, perhaps you need to recognise that depending on who this is on the other end of the phone, maybe they're actually just really worried because they're not used to dealing with pregnant people and, you know, they just need you to come and reassure them, in which case, be that person who does that. So, so I think with all of these examples, what, what you actually need to do is to say it out loud, ideally record it, um, and just listen to how it sounds. And are you giving off the vibes that you want to give off? You know, are you coming across as somebody who's, you know, easy to work with, collegiate? Open to conversation, or are you coming off as somebody who's a bit difficult to refer to and who doesn't really want to come and help their colleagues? So, I think just see how it sounds coming out of your mouth.

Yeah, it's a good way to look at it, because I think people get very focused on they have to choose a conflict, and you just think about the conflict. But actually, what example you choose to share in your interview says something about you, because that's the thing you're choosing to showcase. And so, the panel can make judgments on you based on the example that you choose and what you're trying to demonstrate. So this is why we impress upon our students how important it is to choose good examples before the interview and not think of them in the moment. Because if you have to come up with a conflict with a colleague in the moment, you're going to come up with something like whatever dramatic thing has happened rather than this kind of, which is pretty everyday relatable scenario, which is good. And what it does is it allows you to then focus on How you resolved the conflict. So the, the rest of the answer, you focus on the whole point of why they asked you the question, which is to see how you are when you have a conflict with, with a colleague. So yeah, this is a good example.

Yeah.

Next, we've got an interview question that one of our students has been asked to have a look at, and the question is, are there any gaps or weaknesses in your training And how will you address them?

I think this is one of those questions that when you get, you're thinking, oh God, I don't want to tell them about a gap. I don't want to tell them about a weakness. Or you're thinking about this great yawning gap in your CV, as far as you see it, you know, I haven't done any research, or, you know, whatever it is. And that's all you can think about now. So, I think it is just important as always, to think about how you're going to come across. I guess this is about choosing things that are skills that require development, but potentially things that you couldn't have quite completed developing in your training. I think it could often be something to do with governance and that sort of senior-level thinking stuff. I'd really like to develop some more skills on handling complaints, getting involved in the PSRF process, those kind of things. I think that that often works and it's quite a safe example. I think if there's particular kind of clinical elements of your training that you feel that you need to work on a bit further, or maybe something that you need to tailor to this job, Then I think just show it as a work in progress and something that you want to continue to consolidate. Is that how you would answer that?

Yeah. And another sort of caveat to that is that you give the minimum. Don't list a million weaknesses because sometimes people are like, oh, actually, I need to do more of this and I need to do more of this. Or they think because we tried to enforce using a structure of 3 points that you then need 3 gaps in your training. Or 3 weaknesses. And a good rule for general interview is like, just give them— if they ask you a negative, you give them the minimum. That's it. What they ask for. You don't give them more weaknesses. You don't need to lay on all the negatives. This is your interview. You want them to give you a job. So this is not a time to list 25 things that you wish you'd have done in your training or that you're feeling vulnerable about. One thing you can list, one weakness, and then you can look at 3 ways that you have addressed it or intend to address it. And that's a much more positive way of looking at it. I do think you could also do something that you've started to address. So for example, say, just thinking about our specialty, say you were training in emergency medicine and you felt there wasn't enough PEM experience in training, but you had gone and done a PEM fellowship for a year, for example. Then you could say, I felt like there wasn't enough pediatric experience and therefore I went and did this. And it's still a work in progress. You're not saying that— you're fully competent or confident or whatever. But it means that you're showing you've taken an active role in changing things. And so you could do that with your PSRF example as well. You want to get more experience. For example, I actually have taken on answering a few data or streaming DATIXs or answering a couple of patient complaints. And I hope to build on this in my first consultant role.

Yeah. I like that. Show that you've already taken some steps to address it. Because I think having insight into where there are small gaps and potential weaknesses on the part of the training, not on your part, then showing that you've got the insight to that and you've already tried to mitigate it, I think is much stronger than just saying, yeah, I don't know how to do that.

Yeah, and also that you kind of, Alluded to it there, but that you don't want to give deal breaker weaknesses or gaps. So you shouldn't be a communication problem or—

Ever.

No, ever. Um, or, you know, showing up on time. Uh, that's, that's probably not a weakness in your training, to be fair. That's a weakness for you. But a weakness in your training, it shouldn't be that you feel like you don't know how to have difficult conversations or you haven't been trained in some element of communication or teamwork. You want to show something that is solvable, that is not a massive deal, and yeah, that you've kind of made moves to try and plug the gap already.

Yeah.

And also bear in mind, there's a college rep there, so you're not trying to go hard on being negative about training or the training experience. It's just a minor reflection, an honest reflection, and then showing how you're changing it.

Yeah, play it safe. Don't throw yourself or the college under the bus. Yes.

Yeah, you don't want to annoy people on the panel, which is also a generally good rule. If you're speaking around topics that you know people on the panel are very invested in, just be mindful of that. Okay, so then we've got our tip and trick of the week. So this is how to turn a teaching experience into a USP. So our first milestone that we do with our students in the Academy is finding your unique Unique selling points. And most people, would you say most people have a teach and education USP? Probably. And it can feel difficult to know how to turn what you see as just like a load of teaching experience into a good USP. What do you advise? How could people do this?

Yeah, so I actually, I like it when people have got a teaching USP as part of their set of 5 because I think It's so often the case that questions come up around teaching, education, supporting trainees. Even things like learning from incidents and so on requires some teaching element to address that. So, actually, if you can demonstrate that you're a good educator, that's a great thing for you to be able to show. And I think often people just say, oh, you know, well, I've only— You know, just organised a few departmental teaching sessions. But actually, think about what you did there. So, let's say you were in charge of, you know, organising the departmental teaching for a few months. You know, lots of people have done that type of thing. So, actually, it's not just about, you know, I just got people to turn up once a week. It's much more than that. It's actually, you know, what did you do? So, you probably thought about what the curriculum was related to your department and what do people need to know in this 6-month block. So now you can talk about mapping to the curriculum. Then you probably had to arrange speakers, so there was an organisational element to it, recognising people with the right expertise, engaging speakers, making sure they turned up on time. You probably organised the programme so that you had a nice breadth across the 6 months. You probably did something about evaluation, you know, even if you just got people to, you know, scan a QR code and fill in a feedback form, or whatever you did, if you can show a little bit of thought went into this teaching programme, or even one teaching session, then actually that's much stronger than just saying, I organised a teaching session on X, or I organised a couple of journal clubs. Just break it down into the steps that you took to make that happen and the skills that you used, and actually you will find that this is way stronger than you initially thought.

Yeah, and it probably also brings me on to one of my least favourite phrases about which people—

I know what you're gonna say!

Which is, I have done lots of teaching local Regional and national teaching. And this is a phrase that I know might be true, and it's probably true for most people, and it means nothing, and it tells people nothing. So this is like a great example of a general thing that doesn't give the panel any information. And actually, what you've said is a breakdown of one thing, and it could be— It could be local, regional, or national, but what you're doing is showing how you thought about the design and delivery element of it. And that's what makes the difference. It's not just clocking off, yep, done local teaching, done regional, done national. That's not how it's going to work. Actually, you get benefit in showcasing it more deeply. Is that the sentence you thought I was going to say?

That's exactly— I knew you were going to say it because I know that it's a massive bugbear. But you're right, it's general. You feel like you're kind of saying something amazing, local, regional, and national, but actually it doesn't mean anything because the panel doesn't know what you did. So tell them about, you know, how you organised it, who was there, who was the audience, how many people were there, how did you evaluate it, what was the transformation that happened between people, you know, before, you know, from before to after, what do they know now that they didn't know before as a result of your fantastic teaching? That's so much better. Yeah.

And there's also a thing about the challenges here. So thinking about when you were designing this teaching program or series of teaching, what was difficult? And it might be getting people to come along, getting people to give feedback, or getting bleep-free time for teaching, or whatever it is. Or maybe getting the speakers to show up. There will have been challenges that you had. And when you think about these and then you think about how you handled them, these are actually good examples that you can use For other questions around delivery, difficulty, giving a difficult piece of feedback you had to give, or a difficult conversation. So it's really good to think about these kind of in more depth as well with all of your USPs beforehand. And teaching is no exception to that because there'll be some challenges and things that will have happened. OK. We're going to wind up there. So thank you very much, Becky. We will be back next week for another episode. And in next week's podcast, we're going to chat about loads more stuff, including how to plan and approach a 5-minute presentation. So we'll see you then.

See you then.