EP 49: Stop Reading Reports 2 Days Before Your Interview, Do This Instead

The biggest mistake candidates make isn't not knowing enough. It's not knowing what to do when they don't know something. Before we get into today's episode, the Ace Your Consultant Interview Academy waitlist is now open. So if you want to have structured support with your consultant interview prep, then click on the link below and join the waitlist.

In this episode, we are going to look at how to answer questions on reports or policies that you've never heard of. We're going to look at a patient safety example that starts brilliantly and then derails. And we're going to look at the best things that you can do in the few days before your interview.

Okay, let's get into it. So first up, we've got a question from one of our Academy students. And the question this week is, I'm worried about being asked about a specific policy or a report I haven't read. So how do I prepare for this without reading everything?

Yeah, this is quite a common question and people really worry about this. And there are definitely reports that you should have read. So the 10-year plan, you're going to have to have read that really. The Leng review, Arkenden-Darzi, and also knowing the GIRFT report for your specialty is important, so there's no getting away from that. But there is always a chance that something will come up that you just haven't read, or that you, in the heat of the moment, you can't remember it, or whatever. And I think you've just got to, in that moment, you've probably got to just own it. Certainly, I would say certainly don't start blathering on hoping that you're making a point that's going to land for the panel. If you've got no idea, then I think just say to the panel, I'm so sorry, I actually Don't know what that report's about. And hopefully then they will give you a bit of a steer. Oh, that's the one about blah blah. If at that point the light turns on, great, then you can start answering it. If not, I think answer it to the best of your ability. Give, give them some sensible comments about, you know, whatever it is that they've said the topic area is, and hope that you're, you know, scoring some points. I think Saying, oh, I'm going to have to pass that question, is not helpful to you. Definitely going to score zero if you do that. You might be able to squeeze a couple of points out of it if you ask for a bit of a prompt and then make some sensible comments.

Yeah, because worst case scenario, well, worst case scenario is you get zero points for this question and then you mess up all subsequent questions because you're really stressed about getting zero points for this question. That is the worst thing that could happen. So at a baseline even if this question was a disaster, you have to be able to draw a line under it. And next question is a fresh start. And don't spend the time thinking about it during the interview. You can worry about it after. So I think that's kind of the baseline. But then you get to this question, and the worst case for this question is scoring zero. So you're trying to avoid that. So if you literally are just like, oh, I haven't heard of the Ling Review, we need to move on, you're going to score zero for that question. And you could still— it's not that you can't then couldn't get the job, but you could still Obviously, it depends how everyone else does, but it's not great. Like, you should be able to get something for this question. So, it's degrees then. And like you say, if they give you a rough idea, well, it's something to do with whatever, patient safety or whatever it is, then you can at least talk about your knowledge around that topic, and you might end up getting a point or 2. So, that's kind of the next bad option. But then, yeah, sometimes they might give you a steer, they might tell you, Oh yes, this was the something report and it was here, here, and here. I don't know. So like sometimes they might just say, no, we can't give you more information because everyone has to get the same and everyone's just been given the same question. So it's worth asking, but they may not, in which case you just need to give it your best go. But you should be able to avoid this, I think, at all, which is that you should be reading the key reports that are relevant to your specialty because realise that they're going to be asking you something that's relevant. They're not just going to pick something random. So you don't need to read every report ever written about the NHS, but you need to know the ones that are relevant to your specialty. And that way you can be fairly confident to talk about it for a few minutes if it comes up.

Yeah. And I think, you know, conversely, the answer to this is not to spend, you know, 3 days or longer, you know, reading 4,000 pages of, you know, the last 5 years of board reports.

Yes.

Because that is also not going to help you. So I think we've just got to take a kind of measured approach to this. So you've got to read the key reports, you should know, you know, their recent CQC report if they've had a fairly recent visit, probably worth reading the most recent Trust board minutes. You know, and knowing whether there are any relevant standards for your specialty in your college, um, that have come out recently. That's probably enough.

Yeah, and I think like the depth, you don't need to know the depth of this. So if you think like in our, for the Academy, we've got the Deep Dive 5 course. So I've basically done 2 short videos on these topics, like the Ling Review or the Darzi Report or whatever, 2 videos of like 5 minutes each. So that is like 10 minutes of knowledge on each topic or less is more than enough to be able to answer a question. 'Cause you are not doing a 40-minute presentation on the Darzi Report or the Elkington Report. You're going to be answering a question for 3 to 4 minutes. So you don't need to know it inside out. And the panel won't know it inside out either. You're trying to get the essence, how it applies, what's relevant to the team that you're applying to or your specialty. That's it. So you are not trying to have a PhD In the Darzi Report, that is not the goal. You're just trying to have some baseline knowledge so you could answer a question about it if you were asked.

I think one of the things that people do is spend time reading 10 tonnes of stuff at the expense of starting to practise out loud.

Because it's easier.

Exactly, because it feels— it's less awkward reading 4,000 pages than it is practising out loud for 3 minutes. But I would say put down the reports and start practising out loud because it will serve you a whole lot better.

Put away the reports. Yep. Don't be distracted by them. It's easy to go down a rabbit hole, but not necessary. Okay. Let's look at a golden example. This is an example that one of our students has suggested. So what's our golden example this week?

So this is an example of a mistake. So whilst providing a senior review for a 14-year-old who'd taken a paracetamol overdose, I didn't personally check the blood results. I told the patient and her dad that the blood tests were all normal, and they didn't need inpatient admission, and could go home with an urgent outpatient review. When I returned to the computer, I saw the ALT was raised, and immediately knew I'd made a mistake, and realised that then this patient needed treatment.

So, what do I think? There's 2 things that jump out at me. The first is the time, 'cause basically they just went away to a computer, saw there was a mistake, and went back and corrected it. So it is a bit embarrassing, but no one had been sent home or nothing had actually happened. But yes, it would be impactful for the family, 'cause then you're having to say, oh, actually, you do need treatment, you need to come in. So I'm not sure about the time. if it's like significant enough, but maybe it is. But I think—

I think it says that the patient could go home and have urgent outpatient appointment and then after that.

Yeah, well, that's the question. Did they send them home and then they went back to the computer, or they said to them, you can go home, and then they went to the computer, it was like 60 seconds later, and they went, oh, actually, wait, wait, wait. So I don't know. So maybe it just needs a bit of clarity around that. And you don't want them to have literally been home overnight because then it's quite a risk because they're supposed to have been treated. So yeah, I think that's the balance. But I think that probably could be argued either way. But for me, I think the bigger problem is, I did not personally check the blood test results, suggests that someone told you that the results were normal, like one of your— junior team. And so you went and told the family. And I don't think it's really vulnerable owning a mistake, because really it's the mistake of the person who told you that they were normal. So then it goes to, well, does that mean you should never trust— like, your learning from this is you'll never trust any of your team members if they tell you bloods are normal without checking them yourself? That's probably not true, because the team works on you you know, trusting what your team members are telling you, um, and not having to second-guess them. So, I'm not really sure if it's really your mistake, um, or you— or that you really feel it's your mistake. And so, I, I just feel like it might be a bit of a fudge that you're not taking ownership, really. What do you think?

Yeah, I think with this mistake example, there needs to be ownership and vulnerability. I suppose, you know, if this was a— I'm just trying to think of a way to make this okay, and I'm not sure. I suppose if this was a similar example and, you know, you just hadn't clocked that result, you'd looked at them but you kind of just didn't really see it, and therefore you'd sent the patient home inappropriately or whatever, that's probably okay. But there is a bit of nuance around this in that you're saying that somebody else had made a mistake and you delivered it. I think that it's probably worth just thinking about a different example for this one.

I think you're right. If it was them looking like, you looked at the bloods, and you thought they were normal, and you told the patient they could go home, but then when you sat back at the computer, you realised you had looked at the wrong bloods, or whatever it is, that is your mistake. Someone telling you that the results are normal, you trusting that and delivering it, and then finding that they were wrong. I'm not sure is really your mistake in the same way. So, yeah, maybe you could change it. You could just change the example a little bit so that it was your mistake, but probably as it is just now, you're not making the most of the opportunity of this question, I think.

Yeah. I think we sometimes sound a bit nitpicky about these examples, but the key point here is that in your interview, You just really need to make sure that you're not throwing yourself under the bus with this stuff. And if there's any doubt about these examples and you've got— and nerves are incorporated on the day, you are therefore potentially not delivering it in quite the way that you hope to, and therefore you sound like someone that you wouldn't like to be in the interview.

Yeah.

And I think it's really worth thinking about the way that you are coming across and just making sure that your examples are so solid that even with nerves and stress on the day, when you tell it, you're going to come across as somebody who they would want to employ.

Yeah.

And there's no doubt in their mind about, oh, did they, did they really do that? Would— oh, is that okay? We just don't want any of that. And so that's why we are so Um, you know, pedantic about these examples.

I love being pedantic about this. I think we need to lean into being nitpicky because you can, you have time to prep these. There's 5 golden examples. You've got time to get them ready. You've got other things to worry about in the moment of your interview. You just need these to be solid. So it's a good use of time to get them tight beforehand. So, uh, I don't think you need to be embarrassed about being nitpicky. It's fine.

Okay, fine. Putting that to one side. I'm going to be more nitpicky from future.

Yes, more nitpicky is what we want. Okay, so I think we're kind of— that example has potential with some adaptations. So, let's go on to our interview question of the week. This is a question that's come up in an interview recently for our Academy students. And the question this week is, how do you create a culture where people feel safe to speak up. What do you think about this?

Yeah, I mean, this is a question that comes up in some format semi-regularly, and I think it's a, it's a bit kind of, oh, it's a bit, you know, it makes you feel a bit anxious, this question, because there's so much to it potentially. I think there's, there's quite a lot of ways that you can answer this. I think that, you know, we need to be thinking about, you know, what you personally do and then also maybe thinking a little bit about the bigger picture as well. So I think there needs to be some acknowledgement of bigger Trust policies around, you know, freedom to speak up guardian and, you know, what to do if we're in a whistleblowing situation. But there also needs to be a bit more kind of day-to-day stuff. You know, so how do you, you know, make it okay for your team in the moment to speak up? What are we going to do in an emergency or in a high-pressure, high-stakes situation to make it okay for the most junior member of the team in the room to say, hang on a minute, I'm not happy about this bit, can we just stop and regroup? You know, so, There's that. And then I think there's also, you know, day-to-day examples that you can use. Like, you know, we regularly use debrief in the department. How do you embed that as part of your culture to make sure that we are learning from events, you know, both good and bad? And again, that we're creating this atmosphere in this environment where it's okay for people to To tell the truth about things that matter to patients.

Yep. And I think part of it is also doing your due diligence before the interview and just knowing if there's context to this question. Sometimes it can come up when there's been an issue around bullying or something that's come out. It's good to know the context. You're definitely not going to be referencing a hot topic directly, but in a way it's good to know what to avoid, what to be sensitive to, and just to understand where they're coming from. I think this question is becoming very common, so it could be asked anyway in any team, but if there has been an issue, it may be a question that's mandated by the chief exec or whatever in all substantive interviews. Even if there's not been a problem in your team but there's been a problem in the trust, it could be something that's mandated in all interviews. So that's part of what you will find out in your scoping out before the interview. It will help you prepare for it and help you be more sensitive to it.

And I think people often have this temptation to say something really kind of generic, like, well, I have an open-door policy. Um, what does that actually mean? What, you know, you know, tell us, tell us what that means. So, how, you know, you might— what you're trying to say is, I'm really approachable, anyone can come to me at any point. But actually tell them how you create that and how, what's the evidence of that? Is there an example that you can use about somebody coming to you in a way that they felt safe to do so and you helped them to navigate a problem or to escalate it as appropriate? That's better than some generic statement like, I've got an open-door policy. So just be a bit more thoughtful. about it than that.

Okay, good. And then we're going to go on to our tip and trick of the week. This is a general tip for your interview prep, and we're going to talk today about what to do in the days leading up to your interview so you can set yourself up for your best chance of getting the job. So what do you advise our Academy students?

So I think that the first thing to say is You know, 2, 3 days out is not the time to be reading reports.

Yeah.

Um, it's making more notes, you know, madly scribbling, you know, 68 pages of handwritten dense notes that you're never going to read again. Um, you've done all that before, hopefully. Um, and I think even if you haven't, um, then just knowing the absolute key items, uh, on, you know, of the reports is enough in a couple of sentences. That the absolute focus should be on making yourself ready to answer questions in the moment. So you should have that first answer, your tell me about yourself, locked in so that you can deliver that in any way that they ask you to deliver it on the day. And you should have practised answering enough questions out loud that you've got the structure locked in. that you've got your USPs readily in the front of your mind and you can pretty much apply the USPs and your examples with the structure to any question. So it's then about just practicing, practicing out loud, um, so that your, your body understands what it feels like to answer in that 3 to 4 minutes, um, and not trying to add new knowledge to your brain at that stage.

Yeah, and it's mindset is really important in, in that, in the day before, maybe even 2 days before, is part of why we're saying to do that, focus on the core bits, is so that you don't get yourself into a spin and don't spend the time thinking about all the what-ifs. So-and-so's applying, they're the favorite, they're much better than me, what's going to happen if I don't get this job, I'll need to move, all of these things do not serve you well for giving a good interview performance. So what you're really trying to do is get into the zone of, I'm going to go in and I'm going to smash this, I'm going to give it my best go. And so some of that is just clearing your headspace from all the other thoughts. We're a big fan of kind of listening to some empowering podcasts and doing some power poses, and whatever works for you, have a Nice bubble bath, go for a long walk, take the dog out for a walk, whatever it is, just to clear your head the night before, the morning before. Really important to spend that time helping yourself get into a good headspace rather than talking yourself out of it, because it does make a massive difference to how you perform when you walk into the room.

Yeah, I, I think telling, telling yourself a story of success in, you know, I know this sounds maybe a bit silly, but I, I think that The students who go into the interview with this positive mindset, you know, I've done the prep, I know how to answer this, I've got everything at my fingertips, I'm going to go in and get this job, they just go in with a much improved mental attitude.

Yeah.

And they are more likely to be successful on the day. And I think, you know yourself, what is going to serve you better in those days? Is it, you know, some downtime the night before? Is it, um, you know, having a chat with your bestie? Is it, you know, going for a walk? Whatever it is. Maybe it is doing that presentation one final time. Whatever's going to serve you. Um, and then I think the other thing I would say is, I don't, don't talk to loads of people that are not, not the right people in, you know, in that final run-up. You know, don't talk to nervy people, turn off notifications, talk to people who are going to big you up in the right way.

Yeah.

Um, and just, just create that mental mindset of success because it does matter.

Yeah, it does. And I think often as medics, we can kind of push that stuff to us to one side, but it is really important. This is a big moment and you want to do what you can to set things up in your favor and go in feeling good about yourself, as good as you can. And that doesn't mean you won't be nervous. You will be nervous, but you want to go in feeling like, yes, this is it. I'm gonna go in, I'm gonna give it my best. Okay, I think we'll wrap up there. Thank you very much, Becky, for another lovely episode, and I will see you next time. Thank you.