How Our Video Editor Got His First Max Payout in 30 Days

What's good, guys? What you're about to see is an interview between myself and the video editor here at AOC. He's recently managed to do something that I'd say 99% of traders never ever get to the point of doing, which is he passed the funding challenge and got his first max payout all in the span of 3 weeks. And right now he's already at the pace where he is doing more, he is scaling, and it's only a matter of time until he hits half a million dollars or a million dollars in funding and just making more than a full-time living out of trading. And throughout this interview, we're gonna be sharing a lot of alpha, I'm gonna ask him how he managed to overcome his demons, 'cause for— it took him a year to get to this point, and out of those 9 months, he was dealing with something that most traders deal with, which is just a fear of losing money and just the general psychology of trading. And outside of that, we're gonna get into some fun stories because me and him go way back. In fact, back to our uni days. But either way, let's just get right into it and let's not waste too much time. All right, first of all, bro, welcome. So who are you and what do you do?

So I'm Clarence. I'm your video editor for the past 4 years.

Bro, you know how you've been editing all of these client interviews for the past few years? How does it feel to finally be on the other side with the camera? It

feels good, man. I always knew my time would come. And for the past year of like being in bootcamp, I put in the work and now I never doubted that I will have this interview with you. But it came sooner than I expected it. Not gonna lie.

Yeah, it happened super quick, eh?

Yeah.

So in fact, what is it that you managed to recently achieve?

Also, I managed to get funded and get my first payout with under 20 to 21 days.

Yeah, bro, that that was insane. So what you managed to pass in six trading

days?

What it took you what six days to pass the challenge?

Yeah.

Then another week.

Another eight days. Of, uh, to get my first pet out. Yeah.

Absolutely sick, man.

Fun fact.

That was it. Yeah.

On the second day of your stream, while we were like midway in hour 2 or something, I got an email received saying Apex Trader just sent you your pet out. Yeah. Such a cool moment.

Sick, man. Yeah, there was a moment where I saw you guys like on the side, like all huddled together and looking at the phone and laughing, but I couldn't, you know, I was doing a livestream here, so I couldn't, uh,

I wanted to jump into the livestream, but I thought that would be too unprofessional. So I stopped myself from doing that.

That would have been cool, man. Yeah. So how does that feel? Especially after, well, we know each other. Yeah. We go way back. Probably talk about this later.

Yeah.

But like, I know you've had to go through a lot of just obstacles or like just pain. How does it feel to finally be Like your first max payout?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's been— I mean, we've known each other since 7 years now. And I've been wanting to do trading for the last 5 years. And honestly, I feel like it was worth it, even though it took longer than I wanted it to. But now I'm confident to say that I'm a profitable trader now.

Yeah. In fact, You know, now that you can call yourself like not only a profitable trader, but you are now a funded trader.

Yeah.

It's got to pay off.

Yeah.

How does that make you feel, man? Like about the future, about everything else that you can potentially achieve? Like,

I'm really optimistic about the future because before— now I think I can actually make things happen by myself with true trading. And

what do you mean

by that? Before, it's like I'm just working paycheck by paycheck. I'm not saying your pay isn't good. I mean, you pay me really well. It's just that it's not something I want to live by. I want to like try to create money by my own, you know?

Got you.

Yeah.

So what's the problem with like—

Paycheck by paycheck?

Yeah.

Let's say if one day you just decided to stop AOC and if I can't find another job for video editing, Because by the way, I'm a dropout. So and yeah, I don't have a degree. I'm kind of like screwed, you know. So I always wanted to learn a skill where I don't need to rely on anyone, which is something like trading. Yeah.

And in fact, share a little bit about that. Like what got you into trading? Like what made you interested?

Yeah, so it was I think 2020 when COVID happened. My birthday was the first week when we had the COVID lockdown, you know.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, literally one week after the lockdown. Yeah,

yeah. And then I had nothing to do. It was my birthday. My siblings gave me about $200 USDT, and that was my birthday gift then. And then they told me to open a Binance account, and that's how I got into trading crypto. I managed to turn that $200 into a 4x, and after a while I lost everything. But I managed to like make it back a bit, but I then lost it again. Yeah. So it's been, yeah, 2020 until now. 6 years technically.

Yeah. Got you. It's like the average crypto bro story.

Yeah, yeah.

That's what we all go through.

Yeah.

I started with Dogecoin as well.

Yeah. Oh, don't get me started on Dogecoin, bro. I lost 60% of my net worth once because of that bad trade I took.

Rookie numbers, man.

Yeah.

Right. So, bro, clearly you can now say that, you know, not only are you a profitable trader, you're now a funded trader.

Yes, sir.

That has gotten his first payout, max payout, might I mention?

Yeah.

So, you know, I know it wasn't always like this, but how does that make you feel about your future going forward? Because you've talked about wanting to learn something else for a really long time. And now you're here.

Yeah.

How does that make you feel about the future, man? Like,

I'm really optimistic about the future now. Like, I can, uh, I'm legit making money just by clicking buttons right now. Yeah, looking at the charts, London session, New York session, and when the setup is there, just take it. It's either I'm winning the trade or I lose the trade. It's easy money now.

Nice, man. So what's the problem with like, you know, paycheck to paycheck? Like, couldn't you just continue doing the video editing?

True, but video editing isn't something that I enjoy. I mean, I'm your video editor saying this to you, but yeah, because you know, there's a thing where a lot of people, uh, they pursue the wrong skill in life and then they slowly got comfortable. For me, I don't want to get comfortable Or too attached to one skill where I don't enjoy doing it. For me, what I always enjoyed was looking at the charts and trading. So yeah, I'm not gonna say once I become— I make more money from trading, I won't help you edit your videos, but I love to help you edit your videos. Well,

if one day the video style changes, I think everyone's gonna know why.

Yeah.

Hopefully it doesn't happen though.

Yeah.

That, and like, you know, that's absolutely amazing. But I think you and I both know that it wasn't always like that. Yeah. In fact, for the longest time, you were definitely held back by a few things. Like, what would you say that was? Oh wait, wait, let me rephrase my question. And dude, it's absolutely amazing that you've gotten to this point. But I think you and I both know because I was always there every step of the way. It wasn't always like that. Yeah. There were clearly—

Hiccups.

It took you a lot longer to get to where you are right now. What would you say is like the thing that kind of held you back throughout the last 12 months?

Myself. I was the one who was like always holding my back. I mean, the reason why I'm here today is because of the decisions that I took. And the me before was too scared. I didn't want to risk about losing money. And I was on survival mode, essentially. Yeah. But honestly, what got me out of that survival mode was that big bonus that you gave me last year. And then after this, since then, I thought to myself, okay, worst comes to worst, I might just lose my bonus, like buying a lot of funded accounts and losing the money. But that's okay. At least I'm moving forward, not like being stuck at one place. But that was a moment that actually got me out of survival mode and where I was like, you know what, I'm gonna, you know, you only live once. So I need to like risk it so I can like prove to myself that I can make money from trading.

All right. Let's kind of like, let's kind of rewind for a moment. Like when you said survival mode, Like, what was that?

Yeah.

Explain survival mode.

Survival mode. Having a scarcity mindset, you know, feeling like everything is lacking. You don't have enough money. Just being stressed about when's the next paycheck coming and stuff like that. And like, I was actually coming from a place of lacking, you know. I mean, with my salary, it's like, It's a comfortable— I can live comfortably. But for me, I just thought to myself that I wanted a lot more. There's more to life than just being one place, if that makes sense. For me then, it was like I just knew that I had a— I see a lot of potential in myself there where I can become like a millionaire driving that Lambo, Ferrari and stuff.

Who doesn't?

Who doesn't, right? So yeah. But the biggest thing was definitely me wanting to prove to myself and to my family that I can make it by myself. Yeah. Because fun fact, I'm the youngest of 2 siblings. I have a brother and sister. I'm the youngest. And they always worry about me ever since I dropped out. And now that I'm profitable and funded, It's a nice thing to give back. They don't need to worry about me. And now I can like just make my own money and like give it back to them because they have sacrificed a lot for me. And now it's just my turn to like give the favour back.

Got you.

Yeah.

Which is amazing, man. Like, and I'm really happy to see it. Yeah. Just to also like bring it back for a moment. You said your biggest problem was fear.

Yeah.

Like, what were you afraid of?

Losing the money, honestly. Yeah.

So you're afraid of getting into trading and then losing the money that you put into trading?

Yeah,

yeah. Where do you think that fear comes from? Is it something that you've been dealing with, like, for a long time?

Yeah, honestly, yeah. Yeah, because I guess it's also because I can't really say that I grew up from rags to riches, but my dad did make quite good money while growing up. But I think until the latter years when I was like 15, 16, then he quit his job and then suddenly the lifestyle and everything like went down a bit. And ever since then, I've always been coming from a sense of lacking, you know, not enough, not enough, and then always complaining and stuff. Mm.

Got you. And because you also felt like you were kind of in survival mode? Yeah,

yeah, since then.

So that made your relationship with like risk, like you were just afraid to take risk?

Yeah, yeah.

So would that, would you say that, you know, just that fear of losing money, that was the biggest thing holding you back?

Def, 100%, 100%.

All right. And you know, we've talked about this at length before, but even amongst everyone else in bootcamp and Blueprint, and in fact, I've said this before, you know, biggest problem most traders deal with, included yourself, by the way. Yes. I saw that you managed to pick up the technical analysis side of things and the execution side of things, like really quickly, basically in like 3 months, right? And then there was a period of like the rest of the time, like it basically took another year from there before you were able to kind of crack the code.

Yeah, yeah.

And so you're saying the moment you were able to, you know, get a big bonus at the end of last year, that put you out of survival mode, removed that fear of losing money and not removed, like, you're a lot more—

I'm more willing to lose it now.

You're more open to it.

Yeah.

And that helped you ultimately overcome it.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, there you go.

There you go.

I like how I naturally went to the question that I had prepared.

Yeah, yeah.

I like that one. But, and like, you know, honestly, like, just super happy to see it because we started from day one. Like,

yeah,

we'll get into this later, but, you know, I was there from day one and it honestly pissed me off a lot seeing that, you know, clearly you had the ability and you had the ability where you clearly had the ability to execute, but for some reason you were not doing anything with that potential. So I'm just glad to hear that that was what you were dealing with. And I'm also happy that I was able to help you overcome it.

Yeah, 100%.

In a small way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So now that you've overcome this fear of losing money, like, how would you say your trading has changed?

Yo, I'm like a robot right now. Yeah. When I win, I don't feel anything. When I lose, I don't feel anything. Fun fact, while I was like trading, Rich always like we work together, and then he sometimes all my trades will be like a tick away or two ticks away from my stop loss. I'll be like hit me, hit me, and then it just instantly reverses to my TP. Like I'm open for the okay if if I lose, it means that I read the market wrong. I mean, yeah, I'm willing to lose because I I know that okay, I read the market wrong. It's not the TSI. It's not my System fault. It's actually me reading the market wrong, right? And then another thing is that I never touch my stop loss or TP. I just like I risk one one R and I my TP is at two R. So like I always like to tell the students like it's better to lose lose lose a trade because you read the market wrong than than lose because you had doubt in the trade. And I never had doubt in my trades. Sometimes it's just the market is messing with us, you know. Trump could just tweet something, Iran, I'm going to bomb the shit out of you. And then boom, market goes up.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Dude, and that's such a good point. Because so many times you see people moving their stop. I'm guilty of this as well.

Yeah.

But if you really break it down, what's there to lose?

Yeah, nothing.

1%. It's just if you have your risk managed, then, you know, what's the big worry?

Yeah.

Nice. Really, really happy to see that as well, man. So if there was someone, you know, that was sitting on the other side of the screen right now and they were struggling with, you know, the same problem, you know, like they're really afraid to lose money or maybe they're just afraid to be wrong. Like, what would you tell them? Like, what advice would you give them to kind of overcome that problem?

What advice would I give them? You gotta realize that the prop firm that you buy, you're not like— let's say you buy a $50K account prop firm, right? And you only will risk 1% every trade. That 1% is like, how much? $500, right? And you're not actually risking $500. You're only risking what you paid for that account. For me, Apex always has like 90% off and it's like $25 for—

$25, yeah.

Right. And then like every— and your drawdown is like 3%?

The 3-to-1 account?

Yeah, $50K is 3%. 4%. Yeah, 4%, sorry. And realistically speaking, every trade you're risking is about $4 or $5.

Yeah, literally. So how much?

So yeah, $6. So you can actually lose $6. You're not actually losing $5, you know?

Yeah, you're not losing $500. Yeah. It's just $6.

Yeah. Oh, sorry. Yeah, you're not losing $500. So like, that's what I would tell people when you guys are doing prop firm trading is that The number doesn't matter. Just focus on the technical analysis and trade how the system works.

Just trade the system, right?

Yeah.

Because the money doesn't care if you're risking $100 or $1,000. Exactly. Or if you're risking your house.

Yes, yes, yes.

A trade's a trade.

Yes. Pursue for the mastery of trading rather than chasing the money.

Ironically, when you focus on the craft, that's when the money comes, eh?

Exactly. That's when I shifted to just, you know what, I'm going to just focus on like honing my craft in trading and And slowly but surely, like, look at me now.

Yeah, that's exactly what you went through, man.

Yeah.

Like, were you trying to chase money?

No. Honestly, you and Rich has been always telling me, never chase money. Chase the mastery of that skill that you want to do. And for me, I just couldn't. I mean, just to add on, like, towards video editing, I just couldn't want to master video editing. But trading is something that I decided to master on.

Yeah.

Mhm.

Yeah. And, you know, let's say that— so you've talked about prop firms and how, you know, oftentimes if you buy like a $100K account, you're not actually making, or like you're not actually losing $1,000 when you lose a trade. It's just whatever you paid for the prop firm.

Exactly.

What if, you know, what if they weren't trading prop firms? Is there any advice that you would give them that— what would you say to people who are struggling with a fear of loss?

Fear of loss. Definitely just put the amount where you're willing to lose. For me, it was after losing that initial $200 from my savings, I put— I added another $500 from my own money.

Yeah.

Yeah. And then slowly I did manage to build it up to a certain amount, like 4 figures, mid to high 4 figures. I know it's not a lot in crypto, but I was really scared. I mean, it's not— it's still not bad, you

know. Dude, coming from Malaysia.

Yeah.

I feel you, man.

Dollars are big.

Especially, you were like, what, you were in college?

Yeah.

You were 18?

Yeah, 18 to 19.

Yeah, broke college student. Of course it's going to feel like a lot. Right. $500 is like half of someone's monthly income, man.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's more than our minimum wage in Malaysia.

Yeah, actually. Yeah. That's crazy.

Yeah.

How much is the minimum wage right now?

I think $1.4K or $1.5K.

Yo, it's stupid. Just for anyone listening that doesn't know what that number means, minimum wage in Malaysia is like $300 to $400 a month, which is rough.

Yeah.

So yeah, $500 goes a long way.

Yeah, man, it's a lot.

Right. So just basically risk what you're willing to lose.

Yeah, yeah.

And I like that, man, because it's also the same advice that I always give people. It's like, even if you don't end up getting to prop firms, as long as you're risking too much that If you're ever worried about a trade playing out or not because you're worried about the amount of money that you might lose, that very moment should tell you like, yo, your emotions are getting in the way.

You shouldn't even be trading, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's gambling at that point. Yeah. Very simple in theory, and yet a lot of people struggle with it.

Yeah.

But good advice, man. And take it from this guy because Clarence has been I kid you not. He joined— when did you join bootcamp?

Last year. I was the second cohort.

Yeah.

Yeah. Fun fact, it's also like an anniversary of me joining bootcamp that I passed and get my payout.

Really?

Yeah. I joined about March 16th last year. And then I passed my funding account on the 13th or 14th. Yeah,

I remember. Crazy.

Crazy times.

And, you know, back when you joined Bluechamp, you know, I honestly thought you would, you know, be quite successful pretty quickly because you already were editing, you were editing all the modules.

Yeah.

Every single video that I've made for the past like 3, 4 years went through your hands. And so, you know, technically you understood things. So I was honestly expecting a lot. And then You made really good progress for the first three months learning, but then it took you another nine months to kind of like figure out that entire process. Yeah.

Yeah.

And now you realize it, right? After having gone through the journey, people laugh at oh yo people talk about psychology, but it is it's so important.

Honestly, I feel like the eighty twenty eighty percent for me was the psychology. Like the TA part. Honestly, I was in my FX account. FX Replay, I'm actually making money through like backtesting and stuff. It's just that when you go on a live market, I just couldn't handle the live markets, you know. Every tick when the numbers go up and down, you're like, I'm just scared, you know. Now you remind me when, remember the first time I bought my first final account?

Yeah, bro. Oh my God. Yeah, Bali, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh man. Share that, man. Yeah.

It's such a funny story. So basically, we bought my first funded account.

We bought the funded account together.

Together, yeah, on Apex.

I was like, you know what, if you're starting a new challenge, I'll start it too and see who passes it first.

Yeah, I could have passed it in that night. Fun fact is, what happened? Oh, you told me to track NASDAQ because it was a long. I remember that. Yeah, but I didn't know what was a mini and a micro then. And I took one NASDAQ trade, which is like 100 micros, $1,000.

No, he basically, like, we both opened, we both had the same funding account. Yeah, yeah. And then you opened 2 contracts of NASDAQ.

Yeah.

And I was like, hold up. Either we got different accounts or something's wrong here because I opened 2 micros. I was like, it cannot be. It's the same trade. And then, well, how much did you lose? Like a few hundred dollars right off the get-go? Like,

the first tick down was like minus like $200, $300. And then when I saw it went back to zero, I closed the trade. And then like 10 minutes later, I just see the number to hit the TP where we set it. I set the TP at, you know.

Yeah.

If I still hold on to that trade, I'll pass that account like that night, actually.

Yeah. And with Apex, you can pass it in a single day.

So yeah,

yeah. But you couldn't really call that profitable trading, you know.

Yeah, that was gambling, honestly.

Yeah. Yeah. There you go,

man. Also, I think another add-on I would say about that thread, if let's say I actually take it, I wouldn't say it's my thread because I was just copying your idea. And one thing that for sure I feel like you taught me that never follow other people's ideas because if you follow and take the thread without understanding the thought process behind it, it's never your thread in the beginning. You're just gambling based on what people are saying.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, so one thing for sure that I don't want to share my ideas, not to just say, uh, to get cap. It's just that if I share them and you just take it, you're gambling. Because I actually understand why I took it. If some other guy, you know, the students take it, they just say, oh, I can make quick money. But that's not trading. You're just copying people.

It's not, man. It's just being lazy.

Yeah, you're just being lazy. Trading is like you actually taking the time. Yeah, in fact, I'm only like spending like 15 minutes per session just looking at the PD arrays, the timeframes and everything and just decide, okay, if this happens in scenario A, then I'm going to take the trade. If setup B happens, I'll take setup B. I'll just be patient and just wait for that setup to happen.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that brings me back to, remember what happened on the livestream?

Oh yeah.

Where you were, where you got screwed up by the CICDs.

Oh yeah. Oh bro, okay. Honestly, on the second day, I'm gonna say this, like I got pissed because I knew my system very well, but I got FOMO because I was a moderator for the livestream.

Yeah.

Everyone was like, CICD, CICD.

Yeah.

And I was like, And I got FOMO, you know, peer pressure. Okay, CSD, take it. And I lost the trade. After I reflect back, I said, bro, that was— I was looking for a long, but I took a short, you know. I got really pissed, like, why am I even listening?

Basically, you got affected by other people, right?

Yeah, exactly. It wasn't my idea. And that's another thing that I learned from that night where I'm not going to bother listening to other people's advice, even yours. No offense, man. It's because I need to understand the trade. I want to trade independently. So whatever ideas I think, whatever I try to attack is because it's from my own understanding what price might happen. But yeah, I mean, going back to that night, I got pissed so much. Like, why would I even be listening to people? No offense to people who watch me.

Literally random people, man.

Yeah, random people who aren't profitable.

Oh, they could be.

I mean, guess what? But you wouldn't know. I wouldn't know.

And even if they were, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter. It wasn't my idea to begin with, you know. I mean, there's always going to be the CIC, there's always going to be the next fair value gap, there's always going to be the next order block.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And dude, you bring up such a good point as well, because I think a lot of people, maybe including yourself, would be surprised. I do not watch trading.

Yeah.

There's nothing in my YouTube, X, whatever that is related to trading.

Yeah. I mean, in fact, I don't too anymore. Right now I'm watching a lot of just camping videos, like cooking videos.

Yeah, trading stressful, eh?

Yeah, yeah. Like, why would I want to watch more about trading when I'm already trading live. Yeah,

exactly. It's like, at some point, you just have to get to a point where, you know, you've done the work, you've put in the work, you have the data, and you understand that your system works and it's profitable. Once you get to that point, like, stop looking at other people, man. And it also makes it tough as well sometimes because we have Sid, who, and even you, right? 3 of us use the same system and yet, Any given time in the market, we would be seeing, you know, different ideas and we'll have different viewpoints. Same system.

Yeah.

So it just goes to show you, like, trading is so subjective that at some point when you get to a decent point, trust yourself, trust your ideas.

Yeah.

And

show your wins.

Yeah. Yeah. Which is definitely something I should be thinking about doing. Maybe I should stop calling trades. start showing the journals and, you know, just documenting.

Yeah, yeah.

After the fact instead, might be a better way to do it.

Yeah.

But either way, you know, just to— let's bring us back to the moment that you joined bootcamp. What was it that made you decide like, hey, this was the right time that I should, you know, get serious about my trading?

I guess it was, uh, I actually stopped trading for 2 years before bootcamp because I was like, uh, I want to build up my capital, save up my money through working with AOC, helping you guys like, uh, content, like build a system and stuff in the company. And then, uh, honestly, it wasn't my idea to join the bootcamp. It was you and Rich pushing me, you know, like the first cohort. You guys see some success from, uh, first cohort members.

Yeah.

And then one day Rich was like, Clarence, I want you to join for the next cohort. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, man. Yeah. And yeah, honestly, I wouldn't be here today on this interview without you two. Honestly, you two are my rock. Yeah. You two pushed me. You're like, Clarence, join. Just join. And you guys have been helping me every time when I have doubted myself or anything. You're like, look, it's like, it's like you just always pull me back to earth when I was overthinking or like doubting myself.

So I'm gonna kill you.

He's not gonna kill you. I'm not gonna die. If I die— okay, I don't want to do God dance.

Let's not go down that road.

But yeah, I mean, really, man, I really appreciate you giving me the chance to join bootcamp. In fact, the biggest chance you ever gave me was Can I just go into how I started with AOC?

Yeah, why not? I think this is a natural point in the conversation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So how I actually joined AOC is a really funny thing.

Yeah, like we go way back.

We go way back. Yeah, it was my first semester in uni. That's where I met Shen in a class called public speaking. Really?

That was the first time?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Insane.

Yeah, I was sitting there and then you walk in with like your shorts with a lot of bags, gym bro, you know? And then you had a man bun last time. Yeah. And then, yeah, we were always like good friends. We always hang out, had lunch and dinner.

You should share what happened in the public speaking class. Yeah. Like, what was that first impression?

He was a cool guy, I'm not gonna lie. Our first speech we had to give was an impromptu speech. He ended the speech with, life is like a penis.

No, I started it.

I started it, sorry.

Yeah, yeah, I came into a room of like, what, 200 people?

Yeah.

It was a big class.

Yeah, it was an auditorium.

Yeah,

yeah.

And then I came in, my opening line was, life is like a penis.

Yeah.

Sometimes it's hard, most of the time it's kind of in between.

Yeah.

Or soft.

Yeah.

I don't remember exactly what I said.

Something about the hair is messy or well kept.

Oh yeah, yeah, something like that.

Yeah.

That's wild.

I

never knew that was the first time, that was your first impression, or like that was the first time

you saw me.

Yeah, I mean,

while my first semester in uni, I was already started to get into like online money with entrepreneurship, but I never had any friends who were talking about it. I mean, the first thing I actually did before like anything was e-commerce with Rich. Fine enough. We were like selling like clothing brand.

Dude, I was gonna take a guess. Yeah. It had to be either hoodies or t-shirts.

Ah, bracelets, you know. Yeah, it's either that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was

it for girls at least?

Huh?

Was it for girls at least? Like you're selling to girls?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We only did it for like a couple of months. Yeah, yeah.

Poor guys with knots.

Yeah, we only did it for a couple of months and then we stopped. Because we realized we don't know how to do it. And then I was like drifting in between to finding what I want to do. But I always had an attraction towards trading. So yeah, and then—

Yeah, so we met in uni.

Yeah.

And then for, you know, during uni, we definitely hung out.

Yeah.

A couple of times, although still funny until now, like—

You never thought I would be your friend.

Yeah, you are the only person from uni that I still talk to.

Yeah.

Somehow. Yeah. I never would have guessed it was you.

Yeah.

But, you know, we're not gonna dive too deep into, you know, uni days.

Yeah.

But let's go to the moment, like, how do you end up joining AOC, man?

Funny enough, remember my birthday when I got my birthday gift from my siblings?

Yeah.

So that year was like a good year. I think it was the 4th cycle, if I'm not mistaken. Right now we're in the 5th cycle of Bitcoin, right? The halving.

Yeah, it was back in 2021. I think it was 2022.

Yeah. So yeah, it was like 4th cycle. 4th cycle. And then I was like, yo, Rich, we gotta get in crypto, you know? Because I was trading and then Rich was like, okay. And then we like started trading, trading. And then we were like, didn't know what to do. But I knew like a friend of ours, Daniel, remember?

Yeah, Charles.

Charles. And then I asked him, he was posting about crypto stuff in stories last time.

It was?

I think so. Then I asked him, oh yo, do you have anyone that I can learn from? And then he said, oh, Shen's the guy. Then he added us into a group where legit it was only close friends and family then. Yeah, it's like your first AOC, you know, where you didn't sell to anybody, but you actually just providing value for your friends and your family. Yeah, bro, it was like my first signal group where I didn't need to pay. Every day you'd be like shilling us, buy this, buy that.

Nah, I wouldn't say I was shilling, man.

Yeah.

I gave you guys trade ideas.

Yeah, you gave really good ideas. I took some, I made some. And funny enough, the ones that you always say, I took them, I made money, is when I only lost it when I was like FOMO or peer pressure, funny enough.

Man, that just brought me way back, man.

Yeah, man.

Like, I think that was the— I think you found me at a time when I had been working on, you know, trading for a while. That was before I started my YouTube channel.

Yeah.

It's only after like some friends asked me and then slowly that

group chat,

couple friends happened, turned into group chat.

Yeah.

And then like it just got to a point where there were so many people asking me that, you know what, let me just make some YouTube videos for the fun of it. I started the channel like April Fools' 2021 just as a joke without thinking that it would grow to this point.

Yeah.

Yeah, you definitely found me at an interesting spot. And then—

Rich joined the team first.

Yeah?

Yeah. And a year later, I was like, I didn't know what to do with my life. I was in uni. Uni sucked. All the lecturers were dickheads, like wasting my time. Like whatever they were teaching wasn't what they're doing. And then I was asking Rich, is it cool if I come do something for AOC? You know, and I think everything was aligning.

Aligning is a strong word, man.

It is, bro. It is. I know it's a strong word. I mean, but it was like one week before you said, okay, come join on the team. I was like talking to Rich every day. Bro, can you like ask Shen? Can you ask Shen? You know? And then you came and reached out to me and asked, bro, are you in KL? Yeah, what's up? This Saturday, let's go KL clubbing. Oh, I'm down for that.

Was that Andrew's farewell party?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, okay, I remember now.

Yeah, we were popping champagne.

You're in the VIP section. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Boring as hell because like main dance floor was like—

In front of us.

There was nobody in the VIP. The VIP was behind the freaking DJ for some reason.

Yeah.

I would have rather been on the dance floor, man.

Right? I mean, the only guy who was like there was Ethan. Yeah. Yeah.

And then, yeah, after the party, I remember you were pissed drunk.

Yeah, yeah. And I was like, bro, can you— can I work for you?

Make the face, make the face.

I can't make that face now. Someone pass me a shot. But yeah, I was like shitfaced and I remember the conversation, I was like, bro, thanks for the deal tonight, but I want to ask you something. Can I like come and work for you? And then you said, okay. And then I didn't even have an interview with you, you remember? I just remember you were like, you gave me 4 questions, I answered them. Okay, good. And a year— not a year, a week later, I joined the first meeting with you guys. Yeah. Ever since then, it was history, you know? My first 6 months of working with you, I didn't get paid. I could understand why because I didn't have any skills set and anything. I had to prove myself.

And that, by the way, is still— personally, I think that is one of your biggest strengths. It's like you're not afraid of just going through some shit, you know, because at the end of the day, as long as you have a willingness to just move forward, even to just move forward regardless of whether you feel like you're making progress or whether you See results, because I know after having worked with many people and also just speaking to a lot of people, that's not the average person, man. The average person, they get into trading and they want this to work out immediately. Maybe they give themselves three months, and then you know they kind of and they just expect to to make it immediately. Yeah, for the first few months, and it wasn't out of. It wasn't out of like on purpose either. Because genuinely you came in at a time when, you know, we were still really early as a company.

Yeah, yeah.

And also we didn't quite know what to give you to do.

Well, every day I remember I was like just annoying you and Rich. What can I do? What can I do? What can I do?

Yeah, I felt a bit bad back then, man. But the fact that you stuck around shows a lot of just character, man. It's that type of attitude that leads you to success. Because a lot of people talk about, oh yeah, you need this skill, you know, you need to know this skill or you have this ability. But bro, as long as you have that character, it doesn't matter what you do, right? You're gonna make it.

100%.

Like, you put a— I don't know, like Rich likes to say this, you know, you put a killer, like a killer is always going to kill.

Yeah.

Doesn't matter what stage you put him in. A-players are going to be A-players.

Yeah.

And that's personally one of your biggest defining traits. And I would think it's one of the biggest reasons how you ended up here today on this side of the camera.

Yeah.

But just to bring it back real quick. So prior to starting bootcamp, you already kind of knew all of the methodologies. I don't know if you know that. Do you know the methodologies like prior to starting?

Oh yeah. Do you

have a rough idea? Or was it a good idea?

I know every mistake a beginner shouldn't do.

Yeah.

But because I never like actually traded live and with a proper system, I'll say that what helped me is actually just going through everything rather than, you know, a lot of problems with a lot of people, they just know the theory, but they never like actually practice what they learn. They don't apply the knowledge, you know. People just want a lot of knowledge, but they never apply it. So that's a big factor that really helped me to click. Got you.

Yeah, just to go back there for a moment, the fact that you already understood or like you feel like you understood, did that help you or kind of like hold you back? Like, did it help you or did it give you some sort of like weird pressure that, okay, because I understand this, I need to, you know, I need to make it in X amount of time?

Yeah, I actually was quite pressured because like, of course I need to like be a funded trader and get my payouts soon. And yeah, I was pressured because like, it'd be weird for me to not actually make it happen because A, I work for a trading company, a fortune trading company.

Yeah.

And B, I'm always with you. So it's like—

Direct— Direct contact.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, if I can't make it work, it's not a system fault. It's not your fault. It's my fault that I couldn't make trading work. Yeah. And then, like I said, my biggest obstacle was myself, my ego, and then my— how would I say? I always wanted to wait for a perfect moment. And I realized that there's never a perfect moment. The only moment is now and just take it. Yeah.

Got you. And so, you know, once you got started with bootcamp, even though you kind of like had a good amount of expectation, like you kind of knew what to expect, What was kind of like harder than you expected?

Honestly, the TA is easy. The technical analysis is the really easy part. The hard part was myself.

What do you mean?

In the beginning, I was chasing money. I wasn't trading because I wanted to master trading. I was trading because I wanted the money. Honestly, it's myself is not willing to risk the money and just expect that, you know, you know the saying, billionaires risk millions of dollars to become billionaires, millionaires risk hundreds of thousands of dollars to become millionaires. And, uh, if you're not willing to risk, how are you even gonna make the money, you know? Yeah. So I told myself, like, after that bonus, I got out of survival mode. I wasn't— I didn't lack anything anymore. I knew that, okay, I have this amount of money. I can try and pass fast and fail fast. That's what I did.

Got you. So even though you already knew the technical analysis, that wasn't the hard part. It was just more myself overcoming that fear.

Yeah.

And being able to see bigger.

Yeah. Change your mindset, bro.

You just got to change your mindset, bro.

Yeah. Who's going to carry the boats?

You are. Obviously you had, you know, obviously for a long period of time you had, you know, you were struggling with that fear. And would you say that the moment that things clicked for you was the moment you got the bonus and that got you out of survival mode? But, you know, outside of that, right, outside of survival mode, would you say there was something else? Like, was there a moment where you felt like something clicked for you?

Oh yeah. The moment when you and Rich asked me to hold an accountability group for the bootcamp. You know? So I was like, you know me, I'm always willing to do anything to help the company. And yeah, so at that moment I was like, I really became fearless after like hosting the accountability group.

Why?

Because I had—

Wait, first of all, what's the accountability group?

It's basically me keeping people accountable. Every week they have goals, keeping all the students on track in phase 1, phase 2, and phase 3. And I'm that guy who's just making sure everyone is progressing well in the bootcamp so they don't stray away. Because basically I'm just a babysitter for everyone.

Yeah, that's a nice way to put it, man.

Yeah.

And I think we started this because we realized, again, most people were not Most people are not stupid.

Yeah.

Right, they were just lazy or unmotivated or for whatever reason, they could not be consistent.

Yeah.

So we tried coming up with this idea, an accountability group.

Yeah.

How does it work again? Like they have to text you every day to send an update?

Yeah, they need to tell me what they've done today. I call it the daily check-in. Where let's say you did 2 hours of trading, you worked out for 1 hour, you read like 10 pages in a book. Anything that's productive, You gotta check in with me.

Okay.

And if you don't do it after 2 or 3 days, I'll be like, what's going on? You know, or like I'll set up a call with them.

Got you.

Yeah,

that's a nice way to do it. Yeah. And so bringing it back to the accountability group, like, well, sorry, your babysitting group. What point, like what from the babysitting group did it make things click for you?

I knew I had a TR side down and knew that I'm okay about losing the money. And one thing for sure was like, if I'm gonna hold people accountable, I need to step my game up, you know? Yeah. Like, who— why would I want to listen? It's like me when I was in uni. Why am I listening to this guy who's not even doing anything like finance or accounting? They're just teaching the theory. So for me, I had to like step up. So I actually need to be the one who's like, uh, actually live trading. And slowly, like, I only Did accountability for 2 months. But March was my second quarter for accountability, was the month that actually pushed, was a really good month for me where I got funded, I got my first payout. And every time I don't tell, I don't tell my ideas to them, but every day I just show them me winning a trade whenever I do take one.

Got you.

Yeah.

So in a way, When you were forced to teach others?

Yeah.

That is when you yourself learned the biggest lesson?

Yeah.

Would you kind of break it down that way?

Yeah. When I was forced to lead others.

And then that forced you to step your game up?

Yeah. Because people are expecting something from you. And as you know, I always want to be reliable. So I had to step up my game. Yeah. I mean, you know how locked in I was trading, bro.

Yeah, you were, man. You were, outside of editing, this guy was, you were looking at the charts for like multiple hours. You were looking at the charts about 5 times more than me.

Yeah.

And the results do speak for themselves because I was working on making the program better and I definitely need to go back to my roots, man. Now that we're having this conversation, definitely need to go back to my roots, need to lock in on trading again. But outside of that, like, It's, it's so interesting hearing it from you as well, because it's what I tend— like, I don't tell students this, but it was the same for me, where my biggest growth as a trader only started to happen once I became a quote-unquote leader.

Yeah.

I don't want to consider myself a leader, but people do definitely look up to me and look up to what I do. And it was at that point, it's like, somehow it was a subconscious thing that, okay, I need to hold myself to a better standard. And also just simply teaching others just helps you reinforce what you already know.

Yeah.

And helps make clear what you actually don't know.

Yeah.

Then you have to go back to the drawing board. Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

You realise it as well, eh?

Yeah. I guess it's also similar to Sid, our head coach in ZOC, where he did say in one war meeting that he saw like a similar path that I'm taking when he started off before becoming a coach, where he was in a group talking about trade ideas and like sharing ideas and stuff. And, uh, Solly, he said like, when you have people that look up to you, you need to step up your standard and step up your game.

Yeah. It was

a similar progress where hopefully in a couple of months, after a couple more payouts, hopefully I can become a coach, you know.

Yeah, Sid, you're definitely taking, like, you're on a very similar trajectory compared to Sid at the moment. Yeah. Sid, to anyone watching who doesn't know him, he's the head coach here at AOC and amazing trader, one of the best traders that I know. But it didn't always start out like that. It started kind of like you actually. Like one day we, I had a Telegram group back, this was back in like the early days of my YouTube career. Yeah. People wanted to. Well, at the time, everyone had a free group, so I just thought, oh yeah, okay, I'm supposed to be on Telegram as well. But like, I don't use Telegram, so I ended up making this free chat, and then I didn't even have moderators on it. One day, Sid just kind of offered to moderate, and like, you know, I felt bad for having him do free work, so I just kind of like offered to bring him in and kind of coach him. Same story with you, where. You know, I gave him the frameworks, I gave him the knowledge, but honestly, like, I didn't really hold him accountable. It was him that kind of like stepped up and made everything happen. The biggest shift for him going from just, you know, doing this by himself, didn't really see much consistency, was when I kind of promoted him to be a moderator or rather a junior coach inside the group. This was before he had qualifications. I know, like, probably should have waited a bit longer. Mm-hmm. At the same time, I don't think Sid would have been at his level if I didn't just push him to a position of like being kind of like a leader. And ever since then, his growth has just like really accelerated.

Yeah, man. Bro's making a killing.

Yeah, yeah. He's really good at what he does. And he also had a very similar story to where you currently are right now. It's before he started his exponential growth, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

So keep it up, man.

Yeah, for sure, man. The sky's the limit.

Yeah, I hope you Hope you become a coach soon.

2 more payouts.

2 more payouts. In fact, talking about payouts, tell me a little bit more about when you got that payout. You know, how did that actually feel like? And who did you tell first?

My girlfriend, she was beside me and I was like moderating on the stream. I was looking at my phone and suddenly that notification hit. ApeX Trading Fund has paid you. I opened up my account. I saw the money in there. I was like, wow! And then I was like, the second person that I showed to was Rich. He was like also moderating the chat. I was like, bro, bro, bro, bro! Like the money's in, the money's in. And yeah, I mean, for sure I'm happy because it's an achievement that I've been waiting for so many years. But I don't feel rich. The moments where I feel rich was like me treating you guys to that Korean meal lunch, remember? Yeah, that's when I feel rich. But for sure, I think I have a different relationship with money right now, where money is just a tool for me to help others and just to give myself more freedom. Yeah.

Got you. Yeah. And, um, you just brought me back to the days. Remember how when you were still passing your funding challenge?

Yeah.

And When you were working towards the payout. Yeah. Every single day that you want to trade, bro, that's all I could hear from you. 3 times a day you would—

Oh yeah, I remember every day I'm gonna pass my challenge, I'm gonna pass my funded.

And then you come bother me at the office every day.

Yeah, yeah.

Say, yo bro, look at this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look at this, I want to trade.

And we're like, every day, every time I win a trade, I'll just tell you, bro, I'm gonna get funded, I'm gonna get funded. Once I get funded, every day I'll be like, I'm gonna get my payout soon, I'm gonna get my payout soon.

Yeah, bro, I just made another $500. Yeah. $100 away from the payout.

Yeah, fun times, bro. Yeah, I think it's so fun trading. I just don't really know how to explain it to anyone, but I guess you can feel it. Like, you read the chart so perfectly, it went to— you will it into existence on how you want the markets to move in that sense, you

know. Yeah, and speaking about this, like, You know, now that you're here, how does it feel like? Is it different now when you are, you know, looking through the charts versus when you were just editing them?

100%. 100%. Now I can confidently say I'm gonna make a killing in trading. It's only the beginning, you know. First payout, next I'm gonna scale. We need to scale.

Yeah, we need to scale.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's just a matter of time, eh?

Yeah. Can't wait to hit the first $10K a month, $100K a month. The sky's the limit, bro.

Mm-hmm. Well, you know, just on that note, someone's going to be watching this and they're going to think, yeah, you work for me. Of course you're going to say this is good.

Yeah.

What would you say to them?

What would I say to them? You could be in the right environment, the perfect environment to succeed and everything. But if you're not willing to take the step forward, you're not going to succeed. That's what I'm going to say. It's you versus you every day. It's not about how much money you have, not about who you know. It's actually you putting in the work. to get there. Honestly, if I never put in the work and always expected you or Rich to like help me to get to that stage, I think I wouldn't be here. It's honestly like my own doing. That sounds— not to toot my own horn, but yeah, put in the work. And if you win or lose, when you lose, blame yourself. Don't even blame the markets. Just blame yourself why you lose. Because every decision you make The person you are today are from the decisions you make from the past. Yeah, like Steve Jobs, how he likes to say, life is forward-looking, but you only— you can't really understand what's going on right now until you look back and connect the dots, you know. Yeah.

Good stuff. And just, you know, also on that note, if you just ended up continuing to just do video editing, and if you've never taken the step to put in the work and to learn trading, where do you think you'd have— where do you think you would be right now?

Honestly, I think I would just be in my final year of uni, bro. Honestly. Yeah. In fact, not, uh, just bring back to just another point. Even video editing, I, I wasn't a video editor in the beginning, remember?

Yeah,

no, I was just a glorified assistant for you and Rich. And then slowly, like, I, I had to Watch a lot of video, YouTube videos, and like force myself to step up my game to like learn how to video editing. Yeah, so like I said, if you're in the right environment, you may be around a lot of winners, but you never take the steps or do the work, you never win. So my case is that I have conviction, I put in the work, and results will show themselves sooner or later. So back to your question about where would I be right now. Honestly, I think I'll be just finishing my degree. Yeah, because I took a lot of gap years. Yeah. Oh, another fun fact is like, bro, you're the one who made me drop out of school.

Yeah, I know.

Remember that call we had for an hour where—

No, it wasn't a call, man.

Oh yeah, Rich. I had a call with Rich.

Yeah, you had a call with Rich. And you came to my balcony?

Yeah. I remember it was like 10 something and then I came. Bro, it was late. Can I come over to your house?

No, no, it was— yeah, yeah, it was late.

Yeah. Wah, phoh. I need to talk. And then, talk about what? I want to drop out.

Alright, come.

A couple of cigars, some wine, and then like the next day, I remember the day when I dropped out. It was my finals, my last paper. I finished early and then— oh yeah, fun fact, I passed everything on my finals. I never cared about my grades. I had 30 minutes left before I can exit the exam room, right? I was like just calculating my expenses because that's my concern then about— because once I drop out, I knew that my family is going to drop me and I won't be having allowance. I need to pay rent for myself and everything.

Yeah.

Then I just like wrote down everything, like calculating my expenses throughout the next few months. Can I survive? And I thought to myself, bro, I can't survive. And that day, I just told you and Rich, then texted in the group and said, I'm dropping out. Once I sent that text, I called my dad, said, Pa, I love you, you know, thanks for everything, but I'm dropping out of school. I don't care what you say, but this is my decision. School is not for me.

And bro, you know, Me and Rich talked about this and I think both of us have told you already. You know, while we gave you the advice and while we did tell you like, you know, dropping out wouldn't be a bad idea.

Yeah.

Because we— well, I dropped out and—

He didn't.

He didn't, but—

He quit his job though.

Yeah, he did.

Yeah.

And like, while we did tell you that it was going to be a good decision, you were the one who ultimately had the balls to pull it off. And you did it the very next day after that conversation.

Yeah.

So big, big ups to you, man. Not a lot of people would be able to trust in themselves and to trust in their dreams and their conviction. And again, from what I said earlier, it's character, man. Like, if you've got the character and enough determination, you could do anything and you'll be successful. And if you don't, then Like, yeah, doesn't matter how many, how many times you reach out to them. Hey bro, where's the work? Where's the— why are you not doing backtesting? If they don't want it more than— if they don't want it for themselves more than you want it for them, then—

They'll never get it.

Nothing happens.

Yeah.

Well, bro, then just, just one final note. If someone is on the fence about joining either bootcamp, Or Blueprint, what would you tell them yourself that you couldn't have now that you're on this side of the camera?

The system works, bro. The system works. Bootcamp is a solid system. I mean, in fact, I'm a guinea pig in the bootcamp, you know.

Yeah, you were a guinea pig, yeah.

I was a white rat. I was guinea pig, like, okay, if I— to get someone who has a little bit of knowledge about trading, how can I make them profitable? You really gave us all the information we need. You give us all the support we need. Heck, you have weekly calls with you and Sid, where every time you have a problem, you just go into that call and ask them, and then they'll give you whatever you need. And the best part is like the personal touch where we honestly tailor to everyone's personal problems. Where everyone could just have a calendar link, they book a call with us and just to talk about their own problems rather than just being a big community. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Got you.

Yeah.

So would you recommend

it? 100%.

Bro, thank you for your time. And it's been a great interview.

Yeah. Let's get richer.