How Financial Modelers can help Founders Fix Bad Data and Build Profit with Alyona Mysko

If I asked you to define what is a financial model, how would you define that?

I usually say that this is a story of the business that is usually told with numbers. This is one of the most important tools and instruments that. Alyona Misko is the CEO and founder of Fuel Finance where she's helping startup founders take control of their finances. With a background as a CFO hero, her team supports seed and series A startups by improving financial models, reducing burn and driving growth.

Why do you think founders and leaders of early stage companies often struggle so much?

First time founders, they usually don't know what they don't know. First time founders, they don't have this knowledge that finance is important. Second time founders, they already know everything. So I see this huge difference.

How did you come up with the.

Name Fuel Finding that actually was inspired by Formula one for the business? Finance is just like you.

If you could offer one piece of advice to be a better financial model.

I think it's something that all financial people should work on.

Financial Modelers Corner is the world's premier modeling podcast. It is brought to you by Financial Modeling Institute, the world's leading model financial modeling accreditation organization. Welcome to Financial Modeler's Corner. I am your host, Paul Barnhurst, AKA the FPA guy. And this is a podcast where we talk all about the art and science of financial modeling with distinguished financial modelers from around the globe. The Financial Modelers Corner podcast is brought to you by the Financial Modeling Institute. FMI offers the most respected accreditations in financial modeling and it is why I completed the advanced Financial Modeler last year. And this year I'm taking the Chartered Financial Modeler. I'm thrilled to welcome our guest this week on the show, Alona Miesko. Welcome to Financial Modeler's Corner.

Hi. Hi, Paul. Thanks for the invite. Happy to be here.

Really excited to have you. And I love the. The merch there, the soccer jersey for Fuel, your company there is this say Adidas on that?

Yes. Is it in this?

Yeah. First you had me convinced it was a real jersey and then, then you let me know it was company merch. And I was like, you did a good job. So we start every episode with this question. Tell me that horror story, worst financial model you've ever had to work on, deal with, maybe built yourself, you can go wherever you want.

So first of all, I have financial background, so I turned to be a startup founder. But I used to be a financial person by myself. So I did hundreds of financial models from scratch for startups, for small, medium, Businesses and I definitely saw many of them. But I think the most hilarious or funny story about financial models that I had in my career, it was a case when one of my friends, he was preparing his startup for fundraising and he needed to build financial model, as it usually happens, for investors, not just for himself, but for investors. And he just decided to figure out by his own. So he downloaded. It was maybe five years ago, something like that. So he just downloaded some templates. So he googled this template, he downloaded it and then it was like, you know, like some of these templates for very complicated big businesses. So when you have already data and your company exists on the market like for years, so you have data to build like this financial model with so many assumptions there, like many different like sheets there. So everything just for big business. And now I'm also saying CF4 for my own startup. So wearing several hats actually C4 and CEO together. Together.

Yep. Got to go from audit to running your own business to now running the business, kind of doing your own modeling for others. And I'm curious, you started in audit PwC, how do you think that role prepared you? How did that help you for what you're doing today? You know, modeling and then kind of ultimately starting your own business?

I think that from audit I learned like several things. So first of all, it was interesting to understand different business model, how they works, how they actually work. Because I used to be an auditor for airlines and also for banks. So like for different businesses. And it was interesting to understand how it works, what is important for them. Like, and that's a completely different things. And that was I think the first, the first insight. So I actually started to understand what is important in financial reports, what red flags can be there. But I think another point that I learned maybe from the perspective how PwC actually makes their business. So because when you're an auditor, so you definitely know that. So you track your hours and you track your hours for different projects. And that's like how this business works. So they need to have like this margin. And I think I learned and it was maybe a boost for myself because when I used to be this fractional CFO person, I was like, okay, how many hours I spend here? So I actually had the skill from, from audit and from PwC. And this was a skill that I was like, no, there should be some like better way how I can allocate my hours. So is it the way like how we can automate this work? So I think that thing. So how this business works was also like for an, like an inspiration for me to do already like some tech product just to spend less hours on like many different manual things.

You mean you don't like doing manual things over and over?

No.

So you know, audit, you mentioned you really enjoyed learning about different industries. Did you have a favorite industry, maybe one you found really fascinating that you particularly enjoyed or even as you built models and worked with different companies, do you have an industry that maybe you find most interesting?

I think like that I have industries which I found like the most difficult industries maybe, maybe from some perspective they are also interesting.

What are some of the most difficult industries? Let's start there.

I think like maybe for me it's always about manufacturing. So if companies have like their manufacturing business so they need to place plan not just like, I don't know like revenues, you have it in SaaS. But you need to plan your inventory and you need to plan your working capital and always balance like and have this model to build like demand supply so they will match. Because in other case you just lose money or you have so many products and you can sell them or you have not enough products and you lose revenue. So I think that this business model for me is the most complicated one because like some even small mistakes in your plan they can impact. So I definitely can say the same about other business model. But I think in manufacturing especially when you have some like products that have some terms like when they will be already like I know some products or whatever. And this I think the most complicated business model for me. So you need to track so many things and how actual to build like this revenue model with demand. Because you need to understand, okay, what is the market, what is the demand was there like what are competitors there? So what is like market share. So so many different things you need to take into account. So for me I think it's like both sides. So it's very interesting. Very very interesting. And on the same side it's very difficult. So I think that's maybe some, I think maybe beauty brands was like one of the most interesting thing. And how they track some fashion brands because they even buy that was not.

Interesting because you tried the products or interesting for the industry.

Interesting for the industry. I tried the products also. But I think that they, I was surprised they, they buy this reports. So there are like very specific reports in fashion industry they use. So what trends will be, so what people will buy. So all of the things and how you implement this like some, I don't know like market information into your business, into your Business model and financial model. That was the thing. Very interesting for me.

Yeah. I have a sister that worked in the fashion design industry and that's a very fast moving industry. Right. You really, if you miss the mark on something, it can make a huge difference in how much inventory you're left with and how quickly you can get it out. And so I can see where that's a challenging one to model. And there's, there's a lot that goes into that. So as far as manufacturing, I pretty much steered clear of that one. So I can't speak to that one much.

What is your actually, what is your. The favorite type? Like, I don't know. Businesses.

It's a good question. I don't know if I have a favorite one. I like SaaS for sure. I mean, I think. And not just because, you know. Right. It's one where you get paid up front and you're recognizing revenue throughout the year. I just think it's a fascinating industry and I think it's really interesting to watch how much it's changing with AI and pricing. Right. At first it was everybody just did kind of a fixed monthly fee or an annual upfront. Now you see all these different triangle ways of hybrid approaches. How much should be variable, what should be variable? How do you really determine the value and try to maximize that across your customers? So I think it's a kind of a fascinating industry.

Yeah, that's interesting. I think also another, my favorite one is when you have this combination of hardware and AI. So this is. Or SaaS, like hardware and sauce. So this is.

Yep, I've dealt with that. Hardware and SaaS, or you have a lot of implementation costs. Or I had a business that was, it was a marketing company and the core product was mostly SaaS. But then on top of that, we generally build for every single piece of mail. You know, there's over 50 million pieces of mail that went out a year. We also had a call center in the business and so and we had about 50 different products. So that was a complex one to forecast. That was a real challenge because you had seasonality like, hey, do you do five mail drops in a month? Or you do four? And then you had on demand campaigns where they could, you know, put them in the system one day and you mailed them out the next day. And so trying to. A lot of variability. And I learned a lot. That was. That one was a challenge. I spent, we spent six months building the model.

Six months. Crazy.

Well, mostly learning the business because our billing platform was such a Mess. We didn't know what, what tied to what product because they hadn't updated it over the years. And we got done and then a year later I rebuilt the whole thing. When I really learned the business, collecting.

Actual data for a financial model is another big step.

So yeah, I mean I had to build my own basically data models. I, I pulled all our data out of Salesforce and created all my own mapping tables for what the products really should be, not what they were. Because I couldn't, we couldn't get them all fixed. I mean I fixed what I could at the source but we weren't buying new systems so I just had to manage it. It was, I learned to love Power Query. What can I say?

Yeah, that's works.

Yeah, you know, it worked and we, we got to the point where we could really understand what was going on in the business, have good conversations and hold them accountable. Which is ultimately the goal.

Yes.

Especially in a big business when you're in FP and A is you want to help make better decisions and the data is garbage. It's really hard to make good decisions.

Or you can just make but not correct decisions.

Yeah, you can make, I mean you have to make decisions. But if the data is garbage and you make a big enough wrong decision. Right. It can cripple or even kill a business. If it's a small decision, just be directionally correct and move on. But if it's a big decision, you really try to, you want to make sure you have at least good enough data that you're, you know, a pretty high level of confidence. You're never going to be 100%. And you, I'm sure you never see bad data with startups. Right. It's all clean and great shape.

Never. I don't know, maybe several percent of companies who have good clean data, I don't know, they all have massive in their CRM systems, in the accounting system. All the data actually is different in different sources. So it's so, I don't know, it's so messy. I think this is the biggest problem that we see like when we just collect all of this data and we understand that actually no one understand what is the real numbers. So every team has their own numbers.

It is so true. I mean even being a business of one, I'm terrible at keeping my CRM up to date, which I used to always complain at the salespeople and now I'm like, all right, I can relate.

We do the same. We just like cleaned up our HubSpot finally.

Yeah, you get it? It's, it's funny how once you become an owner, you realize some things where when you're just in a finance role, you're like why aren't they taking care of this? Ah, now I get it. Well, my background is in fpa. I am also passionate about financial modeling. Like many financial modelers, I was a such self taught. Then I discovered the Financial Modeling Institute, the organization that offers the advanced financial Modeler program. I am a proud holder of the afm. Preparing for the AFM exam made me a better modeler. If you want to improve your modeling skills, I recommend the AFM program. Podcast listeners save 15% on the AFM program. Just use code podcast. Get a step back a little bit. I'm curious, how did you come up with the name Fuel Finance? Where did that come from?

That's actually was inspired by a little bit by Formula one. So I was thinking like what is finance for the business? And definitely it has happened before, all the changes with electricity. Electricity, like electric cars, whatever. But I started to think that usually like for the business, their finance is just like fuel. So if you have everything great there, you understand your numbers, you can make great decisions, you can just like ride very fast. So it can like definitely fuel your business. So and that's the thing from different perspectives. So you have enough money or you have like you're good with your numbers to you can raise more or you can get loans with your number. So you're just profitable and you have all this money to write very fast, you can reinvest them. So I think this is like how we think about that and I think another inspiration that we had from Formula one. So you have this team when you ride all the time nonstop and you have this team who fix your cars and I think about Fuel, this is your team and product will actually fix you a little bit so you can just ride faster. And that's also the reason why we name it like Fuel.

Got it. No, I like that. So are you. I'm going to take it. You're a Formula one fan?

A little bit. Yeah.

I, I figured as much when you tied it to Formula 1. But totally makes sense. The whole idea of fuel and the financial numbers. Right. If you're, if you have good financials, you're in a good place. It can help fuel the business.

Yes, that's true.

And you know, as we know, some companies are in a great shape, others not so much. I'm sure you've seen it all. You know, you work obviously with a lot of early stage companies. Why do you think, you know, founders and leaders of early stage companies often struggle so much with financials and financial models. Because I've definitely seen it in a few of the models I built and I've talked to a lot of people who have seen it. What do you, what do you think maybe are some of those reasons they really struggle in this area?

I already have some formula for that. So I understand that first time founders, they usually don't know what they don't know. Second time founders, they already know everything. So I see this huge difference. Second time founder will start with a financial model with everything done correct with, with the finance. And I think that this like first time founders, they don't have like this knowledge that finance is important. So and I think the market is like looks like that everyone tells you product is important, revenue is important, like everything like product and revenue or marketing or whatever. But no one tells actually a lot about that financial side is important. And I think that it's usually some thoughts about finance that, that may be QuickBooks or accounting and no one actually saying that like no, that's more it's like I don't know, understand your numbers, make data driven decisions or sometimes like your cash balance and even like Runway. It's not just numbers, it's your time that you understand you can buy like with money to, I don't know, run till the next fundraising. And I think that like many founders don't understand that and they just don't know until they have this first problem with their finance. So when they have this first problem like usually or this is a cash gap or they have like two months of Runway already and they like oh my gosh, no, we need to do something with our finance. And I think only when they already made some mistake, they learned from that and they started to think about that. But that's I think also disappointing point because I always like think that how many mistakes this like founders could avoid and maybe how many great businesses actually can survive if they would think thought about like such things at the start, not after already all mistakes done.

Yeah, I saw a number somewhere and I can't remember the exact number so I'm sure I'm butchering it. But businesses that look at their financials monthly were much more likely to survive. It was like double, triple the rate of those, those who only look at it periodically like you know, quarterly or less. And so it really is amazing how much of a difference it can make to just be on top of your financials. And it's like you said, right. Most growing businesses don't die because they're not making revenue, they run out of cash.

Yeah, that's number one problem I think. Right.

You have a growing business, you're going to burn a lot of cash. I'm sure as you've experienced, probably personally as you grow your own business, but.

I am joking, but that we are lucky to have me, the person with financial backgrounds.

Yeah, no, it definitely helps. It's helped me as there's been times where I'm like, yeah, I really need to get on some of these people to pay me. Just because I have the revenue doesn't mean I have the cash.

That's, that's cash is king. We all know that. So at least cash. Yeah.

I mean if at the end of the day without the cash, you don't have a sustainable business.

Pretty simple, yes. You can't survive without that.

You know, you can go a while like Enron, but eventually you'll get caught.

This is the best example, probably not.

The best example but you know, I, I figured they, everybody would recognize that one. So you know, we talked a little bit of kind of why they struggle. And I really like what you said. Second time founder versus a first time makes a big difference. But you know, as you're helping founders build the model, how do you find that balance? Begin kind of building those financial numbers and bringing in operational metrics because at the end of the day, you know, really understanding the operations should help drive the financial model. So how do you think about, about that as you're working with, you know, kind of founders and startups?

I think that we are building so we simplify like. So yes, financial model usually can be complicated instrument depending on the stage of the business. But we try to simplify that and building on top of that some dashboards, graphs. And I think the goal of the graph of the dashboard is not just visualization part, but make everything simpler. So just to show not all of the crafts, but for example five important like metrics for this founder, for this stage, for this type of business. And what I see like working with many founders usually so especially like early stage founders because it depends but they want to see just 5, 10 important metrics and they want to understand like how to make decisions out of this metric. So model or report or just like I don't know, something that you create, it doesn't make sense because the greatest impact that what decision founder or entrepreneur will make out of this information. So in that case we just try to show, okay, these Five, ten things are important and you should start from them. And after that you can go already to all other things and, and figure it out or make like drill down or deep dive in these numbers. But we usually try to simplify it with the most important things and everything after that for founders because it's different like how financial people read financial models and reports and how founders and entrepreneurs see that. So I can say the same from my experience. So I used to be a person who created this very detailed financial models and when I started field finance I was like, oh, seems like I need like very simple financial model for my current stage. I don't need like this over complicated stuff because I just will spend and lose time and time is very important and I just need something very fast and the most important metrics for myself. And it was completely new. Different perspective how I saw financial model already being interpreted or yeah, I'm sure.

Being an entrepreneur and doing a startup it gave you a different perspective on, on modeling. I know everybody I talk to that's done a lot of startups, we'll just talk about how different it is from a big huge company to a startup and what you model and how you think about it. Like I was talking to somebody and I always like the bottoms up for building a budget because all the drivers and assumptions and that someone startup they're like no, no, no. I like top down. Like I usually don't have all the detail to do bottom up.

Yeah, that's true. Top down works better.

And so it's just a matter of it's so different from size to size. But I have a question for you. I think this is something a lot of modelers struggle with. I've struggled with it way more than I probably should admit. How do you balance, you know, keeping the model simple? Well, making sure you meet all the customers needs and you cover everything. How do you think about that? Any advice on kind of managing the two? Because I, I could tell your smile. I know you've struggled with this. I think we all have as modelers. So any, any tips or advice on kind of how to balance those two?

I think that's from my experience the best case it always about communication. So if you are a financial model or like financial person and you talk with entrepreneur and founders. So I always recommend to start with questions. What is pain points? Why exactly this founder entrepreneur decides to build this financial model? What is the goal here? And I think that when you understand the goal of this person because the goal can be I want to fundraise or I want to understand if my company will be profitable or I just want to understand how much money I need to invest in that. So it depends a lot. And based on that, because we talked with you like before, that financial model is a story of the business. And if you're a financial modeler, so you should be ready to tell the story for entrepreneur with numbers. And you just like keep this person involved. If you can tell the story in the way how the story solved the first problem and the first goal for this person. So you can build whatever you want, the most complicated, the least complicated things. But you should be ready to present it in very easy ways with several graphs and with your recommendations and with your thoughts, how you see the thing. So in that way it will work. And if you will start with a problem. So like what was the goal? What was the problem and how. And here how you can solve it. So here is an answer in your financial model on your problem and goal. So it definitely will make sense. And after that, so you can make it or more detailed or less detailed, but the final person with whom you work already will be involved in that. So I think that's maybe how to keep this balance. And you can make, I can name it like for yourself, you have this type like of backend, very detailed things, many assumptions, whatever. But for founder and entrepreneur, if you work with them, so make a good front end for this person. So not very detailed, just short summary.

I appreciate that. And I'm going to put a big bold light with the words communicate. It doesn't really start with Excel, right? We all think, hey, you have to be great at Excel and you have to know the basics of Excel, you have to be able to build a model. But if you don't know how to communicate and then tell that story, it's. You can't be a good modeler, especially in what you're doing. If you're talking with startups and you're trying to help them tell their story and understand their problems, it starts with communication always, you know, and so I really appreciate you saying that. And I think sometimes people forget that. So many people just think it's all about, you know, cool formulas. And I can remember that when. How complex can I make formulas? I've. I've made myself a fool more than once by trying to get cute with formulas. And it's like, no, just keep it simple.

Yes, keep it simple. That's so true. And communication. And even like I think for understanding what type of financial model you should build, you should be able to communicate with entrepreneur founder with whom you work and understand okay what their business is about. So like how actually generate revenue because you can make like so different types like of this financial models but it should work for their specific, specific case. And always I see that this case are so individual all the time. There are some small hints, some information or like some thoughts or like I don't know like how entrepreneur actually thinks about like their goals or whatever. So it's always about communication.

Love it. So I think that's a great place to transition to. Some of our standard questions kind of end with just reminding people before we get into this section that it really is. It starts with communication and understanding people's pain points. It's not about starting in Excel and just building. Even though many models may be similar, everybody has a unique business. It has their own problems, challenges. And if you don't understand them, you're not gonna, you're not gonna meet their needs. Which is really what the model is all about. It's not about building a 3 statement that balances. Yes, it needs to balance, but that's not the goal. Nobody cares what formula you used xlookup or index match or whatever argument you see on LinkedIn this week. I'm sure there's one out there. Right? And so these are some of the standard questions we ask each guest. The first one, do you have a favorite shortcut for Excel?

I actually love pivot tables but I don't have favorite shortcut. I think maybe because.

Would that be your favorite feature pivot tables?

Yes, I think so.

Here's the question. Have you tried the new pivot by function where you can create a pivot table with a function.

What will be the function with creating pivot tables?

Yeah, it's called. No, there's a function called pivot by that you can actually create a pivot table as a function instead of loading it into a pivot table. It's fairly new size. You have to give it a try. It has some cool flexibility.

That's cool. I will try it. I love this add on on Excel so definitely should try this one.

New models can lead to bad decisions or worse. You minimize the risk of a bad model. You make sure the models you build are great. Financial Modeling Institute developed the Advanced Financial Modeler Accreditation program to help modelers like you. The AFM program offers a step by step approach to building world class financial models. The program ensures that you know the best practices in model design and structure and will help you brush up on your Excel and Accounting skills too. Be the one on your team to build great models if you want to impress your boss and your clients. Get AFM accredited podcast listeners. Save 15 on the AFM program. Just use code podcast@fminstitute.com podcast. Yeah, so give that one a try. All right, so we'll go with favorite features. Pivot tables. Not. Not big on the shortcuts. And that. That is totally fine. You're not the first. What's the number one lesson? As you look back over your career so far, what's the number one lesson you've learned that's helped you the most in your career?

Always do several scenarios. Your financial model, scenario modeling.

And what brought you that? Is there a particular experience that stands out or just cumulative over the years?

I think maybe it's cumulative experience, but I should this experience from financial models. So when you always do different scenarios, it actually taught me like how to do business. You always need to have several scenarios in your mind. So you will do one thing or another thing. Okay. If this tool will not work, you have another three. And I think this scenario mindset it always good in preparing your a little bit like of resilience because this is not crucial for you, then one scenario will not happen because you always have another three in your mind and it helps you to be prepared all the time. Not even as financial person, but also as a founder. It always helps me. So I am the person who always have different scenarios for all situations and I think that always helped me.

Yeah, I could sense that a lot of that came from also being a founder of oh, this didn't work. How do we pivot? I've definitely had to learn more and more of that, of the value of okay, so what am I going to try now? That didn't work. What do we do next? And I think, you know, having different scenarios and really thinking through the different potentials helps you a lot because. Right. The one thing we know about every model is it's wrong. That's the only thing we can be sure of. I'm wrong. We'll find out. But it's wrong. If you break it to you that all your models are wrong.

Yeah, that's very true and already outdated. If you already done it, it's already shouldn't be changed.

Isn't that the worst? You finish the budget and you're just like, all right, none of these numbers can even be hit and it's January. Like, what's wrong with this picture? We've all been there, you know, kind of speaking of Models, right. I get to talk to a lot of self proclaimed finance nerds. Excel, Google sheets, all those fun things and many of them have really unique things they've built with models. So what's maybe the most unique thing you've done in a spreadsheet in your personal life?

Oh, I just yesterday told it to my friends. So I actually built like it's not financial, it's our plan. So I have my weekly planning of hours. So how I spend hours and I do this plan actual analysis also every week and I do it just in Google spreadsheets. So this is very simple table. I understand like how many hours I will spend this week, how I will spend them. And recently I added another part to that. So I added. So I read this book great CEO within and there is like this chapter about managing of your energy being a CEO and founder. And usually it means that you should challenge yourself do much more complicated things in your company. No one actually can do that. And you should do also this most of high energy task for yourself. So low energy you should try to understand how to automate to delegate that things. And I added also additional filters to that. So what type of task were like I don't know most complicated for me and very interesting. Something operational and boring and also what was like high energy, low energy. And they have this summary in the end like what percentage of time was spent how And I also have this list of my weekly goals like win goals. And I usually compare okay how this win goals connected to my hours spent and how I can actually review it and do better next week. You always review your plans at least every month and you do next time your better plans from this plan actual analysis. And I think the same now I do with my hours and it's I think very insightful from now.

Thank you for sharing that. I won't even admit how little I track of my time so I don't get myself in too much trouble. But that's good. I like it, love the energy. I could, I could picture this spreadsheet right? So now we're going to rapid fire. So I'm going to lay the ground rules of how this works. You can't give me the it depends. No consultant answers. You have to pick a side kind of a yes or no. Then at the end you can elaborate on one or two because I realize there's nuance to pretty much every single one of these. But if you had to pick one side, where would you go? Ready?

Yes.

All right. Circular references. Yes or no? No VBA in models, yes or no?

No.

Do you prefer horizontal like lots of sheets or vertical, kind of putting almost all your data in one sheet?

The answer, it depends, but let's do lots of shits.

All right, we'll go with horizontal. And I agree with you, it does depend on. All right, how about this one? Dynamic arrays in models. What do you think, yes or no?

I think yes in some cases.

Also external workbook links. Yes or no?

No.

That was a pretty easy one for you. Named ranges, yes or no?

Yes.

How about do you follow a formal standard like one of the boards for your modeling, like FAST or smart or you just kind of have your own own principles you use?

Oh, I think it also depends. Sometimes I use standards, but sometimes I still very creative.

All right, we'll give you. It depends on that one. Fine. Okay, well, let you have that. Should financial modelers learn Python in Excel?

Yes.

What about Power Query?

Also yes.

How about Power Bi?

Also yes. And even some machine learning? Also yes.

I think your quickest answer was Power Query. Why does that not surprise me? You work with messy data.

Yes, but you have messy data, you should work with that. So it's not okay to work with it in Excel or Google spreadsheet. So you need something better, more powerful.

You need SQL, you need park. Whatever you have to Python, you have to have a way to clean the data. 100% agree. All right. Do you think Microsoft Excel will ever die?

I think no, but I think it will be changed a lot in the next several years. Hopefully.

Hopefully I see someone want some changes. Do you think I will build the models for us in the future?

Yes.

All right. Do you believe financial models are the number one corporate decision making tool?

I think it's important, but not only one tool to make decision.

So give me one or two of the other tools you think you should be using.

At least you should have your actual data for the previous periods. And I think you should also have some operational perspective. So not just like numbers, it can be something behind the numbers and your teams can provide some more explanation because you can see from one side you have high expenses like I don't know, like on marketing or whatever. But it can be like some longer term like before you will see return on investment out of that and they need some explanations why they are like that. So it can be some another part of project with calculating ROI or whatever. So usually you need much more details behind the numbers.

Got it. What's your lookup function of choice? Choose Vlookup Index Match xlookup Something else. You have a favorite lookup function.

I don't have favorite. I think I used the most vlookup function, but I just use it the most. I don't know if I can name it my favorites.

That works. Is there any of those you want to elaborate a little bit on? I know you struggled. You wanted to say it depends several times.

Yeah, I think. Let me. Let me remember what. On what I was struggling.

You hesitated a little bit on vba. Horizontal or vertical standards.

Yeah, I think just like in the case when I was struggling because I think my mind actually has so many cases from, you know, the smaller cases with smaller financial models for smaller businesses to some bigger ones. And I think that some of the answers can be good, like for smaller businesses and some can be much better for bigger businesses. Because usually when you do like some, I don't know, financial model for smaller business, you want to be like very easy, fast and everything in one template. But if you do like financial model for business, like with many business units, with many type of products or revenue stream, it's just impossible to have everything in one place because it will be so long and so messy. And yes, I think because of that, just because I try to understand for whom it will be so for what type of final user.

No, I mean, and that's exactly it. There's nuance in all of these. Right. Like circular references. I think almost everybody says no, but there are some cases where people will use them and I get it. And you have to be really, really cautious. So everybody has the different opinion.

Yeah. Saying like, it can be massive and when you have it. So you try to find after that from what source it was.

Yeah, there's a reason I try to. I pretty much never use them now, but I get why some people do who use it. Yeah, it's the worst when you get a circular reference and you're like, okay, where is it? And you don't. You don't expect one.

Play through the tactics.

Never. Fun. All right, so we're coming up on the very end of our time. Really enjoyed this chat. Just two quick questions for you and then we'll let you go. First, if you could offer one piece of advice to our listeners to be a better financial modeler, what's the advice you would give them? What's your kind of parting advice?

I think work on your communication skills. I think that all, like financial modelers, like what I see from the market, they are great with their hard skills, but I think soft skills and this communication skills is Something that all financial people should work on. And this is, I believe this is the same like 50% of your success as you have 50% of your hard skill skills. So it's the same importance. And when you have great communication, empathy and you can listen to final user or entrepreneurs so you can do much more, so you can see much bigger pictures so your impact will be bigger. So that's how I think like communication skills will be number one.

Got it. That's great advice. And the last question is, you know, if somebody wants to learn more about you or Fuel Finance, potentially get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?

I'm usually on LinkedIn so Alona with call the same as here. So always answer all messages there or you can just check Fuel Finance, me or our website. So but yeah, I'm LinkedIn, I'm very active.

All right, great. Well we'll definitely put your, your website and your profile on LinkedIn in the show notes. And thank you so much for carving out some time. It was a pleasure chatting with you today. Really enjoyed it.

Thank you. Thank you for having me, Paul.

Yep. Thank you alone and you have a great rest of your day.

Oh, thank you so much.

Financial Modelers Corner was brought to you by the Financial Modeling Institute. This year I completed the advanced financial Modeler certification and it made me a better financial modeler. What are you waiting for? Visit fmi@www.fminstitute.com podcast and use code podcast to save 15% when you enroll in one of the accreditations today long we'll find out. But it's wrong. Break it to you that all your models are wrong.

Yeah, that's very true. And already outdated. If you already done it, it's already shouldn't be changed.

Isn't that the worst? You finish the budget and you're just like, all right, none of these numbers can even be hit and it's January. Like what's wrong with this picture? We've all been there. You know, kind of speaking of models, right. I get to talk to a lot of self proclaimed finance nerds. Excel, Google sheets, all those fun things and many of them have really unique things they've built with models. So what's maybe the most unique thing you've done in a spreadsheet in your personal life?

Oh, I just yesterday told it to my friends. So I actually built like it's not financial, it's our plan. So I have my weekly planning of hours. So how I spend hours and I do this plan actual Analysis also every week and I do just in Google spreadsheets. So this is very simple table I understand like how many hours I will spend this week, how I will spend them and recently I added another part to that. So I added. So I read this book great CEO within and there is like this chapter about managing of your energy being a CEO or and founder and usually it means that you should challenge yourself do much more complicated things in your company. No one actually can do that. And you should do also like this most of high energy task for yourself. So low energy you should try to understand how to automate to delegate that things. And I added also additional filters to that. So what type of task were like I don't know most complicated for me and very interesting something operational and boring and also what was like high energy, low energy. And they have this summary in the end like what percentage of time was spent how And I also have this list of my weekly goals like win goals. And I usually compare okay how this win goals connected to my hours spent and how I can actually review it and do better next week. You always review your plans at least every month and you do next time your better plans from this plan actual analysis. And I think the same now I do with my hours and it's I think very insightful from now.

Thank you for sharing that. I won't even admit how little I track of my time so I don't get myself in too much trouble. But that's good. I like it. Love the energy. I could, I could picture this spreadsheet, right? So now we're going to rapid fire. So I'm going to lay the ground rules of how this works. You can't give me the it depends. No consultant answers. You have to pick a side kind of a yes or no. Then at the end you can elaborate on one or two because I realize there's nuance to pretty much every single one of these. But if you had to pick one side, where would you go? Ready?

Yes.

All right. Circular references. Yes or no?

No.

VBA in models. Yes or no?

No.

Do you prefer horizontal like lots of sheets or vertical kind of putting almost all your data in one sheet.

The answer? It depends, but let's do lots of shits.

All right, we'll go with the horizontal and I agree with you, it does depend on. All right, how about this one? Dynamic arrays in models. What do you think? Yes or no?

I think yes in some cases.

Also external workbook links. Yes or no?

No.

That was a pretty easy one for you. Named ranges yes or no?

Yes.

How about do you follow a formal standard like one of the boards for your modeling, like FAST or smart or you just kind of have your own own principles you use?

Oh, I think it also depends. Sometimes I use standards, but sometimes I still very creative.

All right, we'll give you. It depends on that one. Fine.

It depends.

Okay, well let you have that. Should financial modelers learn Python in Excel?

Yes.

What about Power Query?

Also yes.

How about Power Bi?

Also yes. And even some machine learning? Also yes.

I think your quickest answer was Power Query. Why does that not surprise me? You work with messy data.

Yes, but you have messy data, you should work with that. So it's not okay to work with it in Excel or Google Spreadsheet. So you need something better, more powerful.

You need SQL. Whatever you have to Python, you have to have a way to clean the data. 100% agree. All right. Do you think Microsoft Excel will ever die?

I think no, but I think it will be changed a lot in the next several years. Hopefully.

Hopefully. I see someone wants some changes. Do you think I will build the models for us in the future?

Yes.

All right. Do you believe financial models are the number one corporate decision making tool?

I think it's important, but not only one tool to make decision.

So give me one or two of the other tools you think you should be using.

At least you should have your actual data for the previous periods. And I think you should also have some operational perspective. So not just like numbers, it can be something behind the numbers and your teams can provide some more explanation because you can see from one side you have high expenses like I don't know like on marketing or whatever. But it can be like some longer term like before you will see return on investment out of that and they need some explanations why they are like that. So it can be some another part of project with calculating ROI or whatever. So usually you need much more details behind the numbers.

Got it. What's your lookup function of choice? Choose Vlookup Index Match xlookup Something else. You have a favorite lookup function.

I don't have favorite. I think I used the most Vlookup function but I just like use it the most. I don't know if I can name it my favorites.

That works. Is there any of those you want to elaborate a little bit on? I know you struggled. You wanted to say it depends. Several times.

Yeah, I think. Let me, let me remember what. On what I was struggling.

You hesitated a little bit on vba. Horizontal or vertical standards.

Yeah. I think just like in the case when I was trying to struggling because I think my mind actually has so many cases from, you know, the smaller cases with smaller financial models for smaller businesses to some bigger ones. And I think that some of the answers can be good, like for smaller businesses and some can be much better for bigger businesses. Because usually when you do like some, I don't know, financial model for smaller business, you want to be like very easy, fast and everything in one template. But if you do like financial model for business, like with many business units, with many type of products or revenue stream, it's just impossible to have everything in one place because it will be so long and so messy. And yes, I think because of that, just because I try to understand for whom it will be so for what type of final user.

No, I mean, and that's exactly it. There's nuance in all of these, right? Like circular references. I think almost everybody says no, but there are some cases where people will use them and I get it. And you have to be really, really cautious. So everybody has a different opinion.

Yeah, I think like it can be massive and when you have it. So you try to find after that from what source it was.

Yeah, there's a reason I tried it. I pretty much never use them now. But I get why some people do who use it. Yeah, it's the worst when you get a circular reference and you're like, okay, where is it? And you don't, you don't expect one.

Play through the tactics.

Never. Fun. All right, so we're coming up on the very end of our time. Really enjoyed this chat. Just two quick questions for you and then we'll let you go first. If you could offer one piece of advice to our listeners to be a better financial modeler, what's the advice you would give them? What's your kind of parting advice?

I think work on your communication skills. I think that all like financial modelers like what I see from the market, they are great with their hard skills, but I think soft skills and this communication skills is something that all financial people should work on. And this is, I believe this is the same like 50% of your success as you have 50% of your hard skills. So it's the same importance. And when you have great communication, empathy and you can listen to final user or entrepreneurs, so you can do much more, so you can see much bigger picture, so your impact will be bigger. So that's how I think like communication skills will be number one.

Got it. That's great advice. And the last question is, you know, if somebody wants to learn more about you or Fuel Finance, potentially get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?

I'm usually online K. So alone I'm with call the same as here. So always answer all messages there. Or you can just check Fuel Finance me our website. So. But yeah, I'm linked in. I'm very active.

All right, great. Well, we'll definitely put your your website and your profile on LinkedIn in the show notes. And thank you so much for carving out some time. It was a pleasure chatting with you today. Really enjoyed it.

Thank you. Thank you for having me, Paul.

Yep. Thank you, Ilona. And you have a great rest of your day.

Oh, thank you so much.

Financial Modeler's Corner was brought to you by the Financial Modeling Institute. This year I completed the Advanced Financial Modeler certification and it made me a better financial modeler. What are you waiting for? Visit fmi@www.fminstitute.com podcast and use code podcast to save 15% when you enroll in one of the accreditations today.