A Look Inside The Mindset Of The Total CEO

Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the Land Geek with your favorite niche real estate website, www.thelandgeek.com I am so excited for today's guest. He's typically known as like the smartest guy in the room. And just when I was on his podcast, I was like, oh, you're gonna be my mentor. I was like foisting myself on him. I'm like, you don't know it yet, but we're gonna be best friends. But before we talk to our guest, I'd be remiss if I didn't properly introduce my co host, Six Sigma. You know you love him, Scott Todd from scotttodd.net landmodo.com and most importantly, if not automating your Craigslist and your Facebook postings. Postingdomination.com TheLandgeek Today's podcast is sponsored by GeekPay IO. Get your first note free@thelandgeek.com.

The only.

Way to automate getting paid from your borrower. So today's guest is Vinnie Fisher. So if you don't know about Vinnie, he is. I'm gonna put on my anchorman voice. He's a big deal, a businessman, entrepreneur, author, husband, father. He's got three books out there. A lawyer by trade, Vinny practice tax and business law for 10 years before leaving the field in 2007 to pursue entrepreneurship. And as I was just doing this, his about page just disappeared. So I'm gonna let you take it from there. Tell us more about you.

We just decided you weren't allowed to read about me anymore. Someone just shouted.

I'm running an audible.

You know, I tell you, Mark, thanks for all that was really great. You know, we opened up a company called Total CEO. You can see that at the thetotalceo.com I'm on mission. You know, I've had the great privilege of having four eight figure businesses exited. Three of them broke. One of them, the mightily broken one, is a classic public story which we can get under the hood and have a discussion about because why not talk about all my disasters? But I have, I'm on this journey to help other men in this. And it's not a knock on women. I just am where I am. There are some wonderful women that we network with and do all these things, but I'm on this mission to help men in leadership for life. You know, what you do at home is equally important as what you do in the office and who you lead and who your people are. And so at Total CEO, that's everything we're doing. And so I have a blast all day getting to be around men who are just killing it and doing whatever it is they're doing, like you. And so my days now are super fun. Like, I love running out of bed because I get to hear like my marriage is about to break or what am I doing with these eight kids while I'm running out of money in my business. And I just get to be dealing with mostly seven figure businesses that are either breaking or on the verge of trying to become eight figure businesses.

I love it.

So.

But you know, I'd love to hear just how you got to the point of. Because, you know, 2007, you quit your job as an attorney, right?

Yes. I had a large law firm. I had a, I had a staff all in with lawyers of almost 100 people in our firm. You know, I was, I'm a corporate and tax attorney. I was doing really well in that setting. But the law practice was a mistress. Like I learned with my passion. All of your problems became my problems. I didn't shut them off. So in our marriage, I'll be straight up. For Deb and I, we've been together 25 years and some of our hardest years was the middle time of my law practice. So in 07, I met an Internet kind of guru kid and he opened my eyes up to the digital world. And I spent the next almost 18 months kind of disbanding my practice and kind of getting our people placed other places as I moved into my digital journey and businesses that we subsequently opened up and grow.

Wow. So tell me about the conversation that you had when you first told your wife you wanted to drop this lucrative career in being a lawyer and start your own Internet company.

So she's probably way different than most people. She loved it because she had a husband that was completely stressed out. At this time, I'm also opening a. A mental retardation company with 10 locations in the state of Ohio. And I'm like running wild. I've got almost 300 people on my payroll at this point. I'm massively busy. And what she saw was all the calls at the night and in the morning on the weekend. And like all the legal briefs and things around my law, she saw that as the enemy. She didn't see it as anything that was going to work inside of our family setting. So if you ask my grandmother, who's now dead, at the time, she thought I was ruining my life. But if you ask my mother, my mother felt the same way at the time. But my wife was like high fiving me, to be honest with you.

Scott Todd, what do you think?

I'm thinking he's in the wrong business. I'm thinking he should be a land investor. Well, honestly, he's making my hair fall out. What's remaining just with his whole story. It's like, why work so hard? Why put yourself through so much stress?

Yeah. So back then, right, like I was a poor kid. I was the only person who had graduated college in my family. And so I was a decorated war veteran in college and education type stuff, not to make fun of our soldiers, but so I was that guy in our family. So I was in the system. I only knew the corporate system. And it wasn't until I saw other opportunities of, you know, I was already an entrepreneur of my own law firm. But I didn't see the bigger picture. And once my eyes were opened, things changed. But that took. I had obligations. You don't want to have a law practice. You don't just like you. And I can just shut off something. You know, there was years of investment with clients and people on our team. And so it took us straight up two years to disband that. Well, in that process, I had started to launch which at one point was the seventh largest web hosting company on the planet. And so I really got my wind under me. But so I'm leaving corporate world and next thing you know, I've got 500 people on my own payroll. I just blew something up and, you know, I. It just kind of happened. Like I won't sit here and say like, this was this big master plan. It exploded. And so, yeah, we rode that ride for a while. I now very much fight and will trade money for time. I'm now. That's why Mark and I got along very quickly. I will immediately walk. That's why I'm not trapped in the services of our businesses. I built teams and I have fun with it, but, you know, I will put my family in a trip and fun way before work. I rob from my businesses constantly.

So, Vinny, you know, we talked a little bit about the challenges of going from a seven figure business to an eight figure business. And you've done it three times, right? Four times. So what does it take for a CEO of a seven figure business whom, you know, might be able to get there just through talent and hustle to go to eight figures?

Well, I think you make a great point, Mark. You know, getting to seven figures as somebody who likes to create things is actually not the hard Part it's actually probably of the journey, the easiest of the journeys, I think. There's this amazing thing that happens when you hit that seventh figure. You're now a million dollar plus business. You actually have to manage people and there's more process and there's more structure and there's more growth and you're not going to ever be as profitable as you were when it was just you doing your thing. And then the real part of a business kicks in and none of us as owners set out to worry about process and structure and systems and people and payroll and all the things that go along and running a business. And all of a sudden you wake up with $3 million business and you're miserable. You're like, you can't double yourself, you don't want to work anymore. And that's where I found myself and many other people. And so I've learned Multiple times now, 1 million, 3 million, 7 million, 10 million each have their plateaus. And somewhere along the way you straight up need to take a nap and fix the parts of your business in order to get to that, you know, magical eight figure. And then when you hit 12 to 13 million, you're going to take a step back very quickly to about 9 million. I remember. I'll tell you a fun story. I was getting an award for our company and as I was walking on stage to get marketer of the year, I turned to my then business partner and said, wouldn't it be hilarious if this audience knew that when we were half the size, we were more profitable and I'm winning a big award. And so eight figures in getting there, Mark, to answer a very long answer of a very easy question, it requires you to look at the seasonality of your business and know that some of the people on your team aren't going to be there when you get to eight figures. Some of the ones that like or are not there and you can't do it by yourself. And the biggest thing I see in most companies is that the super smart person trapped themselves in and they're absolutely miserable doing parts of the thing they don't want to do, but they're scared out of their mind and investing in people to get out of that problem.

Yeah. Scott, what do you think about that? You're shaking your head.

No, I mean, like, Mark, I'll tell you, it's funny because. And maybe it was just the way that like, I, you know, I managed a large team, right? Like I had the corporate job, I managed a large team. The last thing the last thing that I wanted to do was to build a company that I was going to like, you know, work in, like to create my own company that was a large company. Like, and I'm not saying, like, I don't want the numbers to be large, I just don't want any employees. Right. Like, so I'm looking for what is it that I can do that I can outsource, I can build a VA team, I can build processes, I can do all this stuff without having to necessarily worry about employees that I have to put into a building. And you know, like, I want freelancers and I want stuff that can do all that.

Right. So in today's world, we have this privilege of being a manager team in and outside of the four, Right. That's a team. You just got to manage them differently.

Absolutely, absolutely.

But I hear owners say a lot is I don't want a large payroll, I don't want a lot of employees. And I would encourage people to. I think you got to look at a different issue. And the different issue is what is it you're really doing? So it's like if our audience is really excited about hedging land and learning how to arbitrage land to other people, then that's the business he or she is in and they're excited about it. And if they're on, if that fits within where they feel they're offering value and their skill set, I'd start there. Because for me, the business of fully accountable and total team and where I spent a lot of my time at total CEO, I don't wake up saying I want a large payroll. I'm actually on mission helping people in what we do. So if I was doing land granting and I was doing, you know, buying land and arbitraging it, I can't help myself. I would probably be one of the larger guys in your group doing it. I wouldn't stop at just doing a few deals. So you gotta know a lot about yourself and who you are. Instead of just adopting these agreements, you make with yourself that you don't want this. Cause I think it could hold back being on mission if you make some bigger agreements. Now with that said, I have a lot more fun when I have less cats to herd. I will say that.

Well, I think you can build the business. Like if you build it right and you build it from the get go, you don't have to be the chief cat herder. I mean like, you know, you can actually put in place a business that you have a hierarchy there you have a management team where I literally only heard one person. That's all I do. Right.

And I do as well. Right, right, right. So I got two of those. But that's where I spend my energy. I'll tell you this, though, and everyone needs to hear the truth of this. That would be really awesome and romantic. If you build it right from the beginning, the reality is someone goes and does something and. And then they have to go fix all that.

Right. I'm with you. And I'll just. I'll just say that. I'll say, like, just like you said, though, you know, like, that you. You would be one of the bigger people in the community. That's. That's my mindset as well. Like, I'm not just in it for a couple of deals. Like, I went. I went all in. And like, I'm going to get. I'm going to have the largest numbers. Right. Like, I'm going to scale the business. But I think you have to have the mindset, do you want to scale it? And you be the one that shoulders it all, which you'll never hit the numbers that you need to hit if you're carrying all the weight or you're going to build it smartly. And if you're going to build it smartly, then you can scale it to be the larger in the community, you.

Know, and it's really hard depending on the audience, you know, Scott and Mark, who you're talking to. If it's somebody who's still kind of in this basic needs aspect of their life, it's an entirely different discussion than someone who's put a little bit away, is safe, can pay the bills, doesn't have much debt, and is able to take risk differently. Like, those are different discussions depending on who you're talking to. And it's really hard to have a lifestyle time discussion with someone who's still chasing their basic needs.

Yeah, absolutely. So as you go up Maslow's hierarchy of needs, then that's where, you know, you got to meet Vinny and go to the total CEO, which, because I want to pivot to that. So, Vinny, what makes a great CEO?

You know, I think it starts for me personally with a vast amount of humility. I lean on the recognition of my weaknesses as a way to empower other people in my life. And so I learn a lot from the things that I'm just straight up not supposed to be doing and I'm not equipped to do. And so with wonderful humility, I can pick on my weaknesses And I probably know them faster than most people know their own. And so because of that, I believe a motto of my life is if service is beneath you, then there's always going to be a form of leadership above you. And so a real leader who gets people needs to have a servant attitude towards who he's been blessed with, the tribe to lead.

So that being said, Vinny, what's some of the worst advice you hear given in your area of expertise of helping CEOs?

Balance.

Balance, what does that mean? Balance?

Yeah, like this idea that everything can be even Steven, like I'll give a little of this, a little bit of that. You know, I practice something, a perspective and priority. You know, if you've got a big land deal you want to close, that might be the night because of documentation or a recorder or something has to happen that you might miss the family dinner. That doesn't mean that you've destroyed the concept of family dinner because you have to close that deal that night. So I think this idea of balance is a lie because it gets people in this thing like, oh, I'm a loser because I didn't like do all these things. I think if we can have an attitude of what are non negotiables, foundations in our life that are priorities and perspective and then navigate through the world that way, that's so to me I see a gigantic lie of balance being told. I also see a huge lie told that, well, there's a few of them, right? But this idea that everything's okay and you just gotta grind to do it and that lacks any type of like looking forward to what you really want and no long term perspective. So the only way I've seen to deal with that is have a multitude of counselors, have Mark, have Scott, have Vinny, have a few guys. And that's why Total is one. It's got an advisory piece which you get me or one of our executives but you get a mastermind group, you get a group of other tribe people because someone will have an opinion about having 15 kids and this and how do I make land deals work and someone else might have an opinion that about marriage and commitment. And to me this idea that everyone's got one simple way of doing it is I think one of the bigger lies out there.

Scott, Todd, I mean, does that ring so true to you about just balance? I can't tell you how many times I've had to miss something because you know, there was something like I had a different priority and for the most part I'm Pretty good about it, but I'm never apologetic about it. Like, hey, I'm letting you guys down. Like, no, teaching you about this is a priority, and this is what a responsible man does. So.

And I'll tell you, the other part of that right in that discussion, Mark, is this idea of motivation and mediocrity and why I'm telling you those two words. These are big, big alarms for me. I got to be real. I am rarely motivated internally to work out. I just got to hit the alarm, get up, and go do it. I'm rarely motivated to write an article on something. I just got to do it. And somehow this friction internally that I feel doubtful or concerned that I'm not, like, inherently motivated to do it is this big lie. We got to overcome these habits we've anchored in our life to do certain things, and the other one's mediocrity. Like, as long as I'm a little better than the next guy, I'm going to be fine. Like, those two things are playing to the middle, and somehow, like, this entrepreneurial gap that I have to be motivated or there's something wrong. Well, gosh darn it, there's a lot of things I got to do. Like, I don't know if I want to drive back and forth three times to a school to pick up my kids and sports and this and that. It's just what I got to do. Like, it's not about this internal motivation. I think there's a lot of reasons why people stop or give up is they have this friction. They don't feel this, like, passion of being motivated. Well, gosh darn it, some crap is just hard.

Scott. Todd, what do you think.

Mark? I mean, along the same lines as you were talking about, about, you know, prioritizing and executing on it. CEO for a very large company once, once told me that, you know, his priorities did not always have that same balance that people talk about, that. That family balance, right? Like, his number one balance was. Or his number one priority was on his own health and wellness. That was his number one priority. And it might sound conceited, but he said, look, if I can't take care of myself and I'm not healthy and I'm sick and I'm not in a position that I'm in no position to do number two, which is to take care of my family, right? And he said, I've got to take care of my family. So, yeah, that means that I got to take care of myself first, then my family, and then my company's like, but wait a minute, if I take care of my company third, well then that means that I would have to choose my family over my company. And the reality is is that my company provides for my family. So let's reorganize this. He told me he's like myself because if I can't take care of myself, I can't take care of my company. If I can't take care of my company, then I can't take care of my family. So he's like, you know, you've got to prioritize that and whatever is his priorities may not be the same for yours, but you got to really think about that like what is the order? Like, you know, you got to take care of yourself first. I agree with that. You got to take care of yourself first. Second, is it family or is it your business? And once you kind of have this framework, then that will help you to make these decisions. And if you explain this to the family well then things get a lot easier, right? Like hey, I'm not necessarily choosing the family over the company or the company over the family. It simply means that I've got to do this in order to provide the next piece.

My kids have zero problem when we're sitting in Hawaii enjoying the North Shore waves if I'm missing something on a Tuesday because I have to get something that just got prioritized in our family's talking about that. But Scott, to echo what you said, the part that's the bigger, like putting your non negotiables in place, house built not on a firm foundation will crumble. So if the first person of the business isn't, I had to learn this later in my business career. I wasn't dealing with personal development health me first. And when I did, everything started to skyrocket in a very positive fashion. For me just to put an example on it, I decided that my marriage was a non negotiable and I will do things to manage my what I do in my life through that grid. And so because of that, I've been able to put these anchors in place and you don't feel like you're double minded or a person tossed in the sea. You are making decisions that are ordered in your life and you kind of suddenly get rid of this whole balance friction and you feel bad that you might miss a dinner or two and or I might miss the first prom ever because I'm somewhere and you start suddenly looking at what priorities matter. Now the other side is true. I don't go to a Conference. If it doesn't make sense just because it's a great network like that, you have to be true to the other side of that. Like it goes both ways. And that's the joy of having, you know, priorities and perspectives. It starts pulling you away from the crap that doesn't mean anything.

Yeah, I love that. I love the total clarity. And I also like what Vinny said earlier. It was kind of like he's kind of like being the good dad we all need. Like your feelings don't matter that much. Right. I don't feel like doing half the things I do in my life. Right, but you're going to do them anyways. And then eventually, you know, the experiencing self may not like working out, the experiencing self may not like, you know, writing that article or ad for Craigslist to sell your land. But the remembering self gets a lot of self esteem and feels really proud about that hard work and that effort. And I think it's just, you know, very few people come to the podcast and talk about that, which I think is great.

So that's the real part of it. Mark, I think you painted a great picture for your people. Like if you listen, everybody, if you want to hit reverse and listen to one part of this, just listen what Mark just said. Like we all chase the mighty dollar and we forget that our build around the world, that we were designed to lead and build and put that first. And if you can do that, I promise you the lagging indicator of money will follow.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So Vinny, what do you think of when you hear the word successful?

Yeah, so for me it's like, you know, waking up with, with a, with a impact family that you are developing legacy in. And you know, I gotta be honest with you, if you asked the younger Vinny, the one who was killing in his 30s, I would have said my seven figure income, the Ferrari parked in the driveway, the multiple businesses. And I'm just at a different journey and season in my life. And so for this season, success is I turn around and there's a line of people voluntarily standing there to want to do what I'm doing. And because of that, my network's deep, my family's deep. People in my life who would feel like their life has changed because I'm not in it is deep and rich.

I love that answer. I love that. Alright, so Vinny, you're gonna have a dinner party, okay. And you can invite any three CEOs on a planet. Whom would you invite? And you can ask them one question. What question, would you ask them? Is that a tough question? I think that's a good, tough question.

Yeah. I think this. I don't know him personally, but the Kris family is the CEO of Chick Fil A. I think this idea that he made some decisions foundationally for what they stand for in their values runs up against this friction in the retail space of being closed on Sundays. And I would just love to be on the side of that friction, understanding how he deals with his board and earnings and dealing with that issue. Love all the friction around standing for something really strong. That would be one guy sitting there, another one. I just like the titans of old and I love people who are agents of change. So the Alcoa story and that CEO who kind of redid that entire business and chose to put compliance ahead of revenue. Man, that guy, I don't know his name right now, but that story is awesome and I would love to be around him. Why not? And then I think from there it's probably a few different choices, but I might switch gears and deal with one of the sports owners because I think this idea of managing this dynamic community of people that are probably more important than the owner is a really interesting way to have to lead people. But finally, it would probably be someone gigantic, huge in the pastor world, because it's like the hardest place to lead hurting people. So love to spend some time with, like, someone like Rick Warren, because I just know that half the time half his flock hates them and half the time he likes him. And welcome to the world of leading people.

Yeah, that's so true. Wow, that's a great answer. All right, well, now we're at that point in the podcast, Vinny, where we're going to get to put you on the spot and ask you for your tip of the week. A website, a resource, a book, something actionable where the art of passive income listeners can go improve their businesses, improve their lives. I think your mentorship has been great. And I know for me personally, like, you know, I know I was joking with you on the last podcast, I'm like, I gotta have you on my personal board of directors. And you know you're gonna have a mentor. But the great thing is, like, I can actually go to the total CEO and actually have you as my mentor. That's pretty cool. So glad you have that available. But what is your tip of the week?

Sometimes we all make a lot of decisions and we get annoyed. And I'll tell you, it's one I just love. Sometimes we just need to take a nap before we make a big decision, just go take a nap. Because I find when I get a little bit rundown or a little bit erratic, and if I really honestly take a deep breath, whatever it is I'm thinking about, I'm just tired, I go get a good night's sleep or whatever, rest, and I look and meditate on that decision afterwards, things are way different. So my tip is go take a nap. I don't have a website like gotakenap.com, but my tip is just back away from it for a little bit. In my case, it'd be go take a nap.

You know, it's funny because Josh Waitzkin, the guy from the chess genius searching for Bobby Fischer. Josh Waitzkin.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah. So he wrote a book, and one of the things that he does, and he works with a lot of hedge fund people, is he asked them to write down around 5 o' clock their biggest challenge and that's it. And then forget about it and kind of let that sort of percolate in their minds. And then when they go to sleep, they usually will have this answer for it.

Isn't it amazing when you pull a lot of friction away? I mean, this just happened to me last night. I woke up with a solution to something and I'm like, woke up real excited to work on it. And I don't think I would have got there had I not done exactly what you're suggesting.

That's great. Great Scott. Todd, what's your tip of the week? Mark?

You know, I like to draw my business. You know, I like to use swim lanes and flowchart it and check out Draw IO.

Oh, I like that tool. It's a great tool. Good suggestion.

Draw IO, flow, charting, everything, all for free.

He likes to put like those Gantt charts and those big bubbles out there. And it's a solid tool. We. I use it personally myself. Great suggestion.

Awesome. Awesome. All right, well, my tip of the week is learn more about Vinnie Fisher atthetotal CEO.com. we will have a link to his site. And Vinny, this is. This is great.

I told you, Mark, something that's really cool. So I've been quietly since our first encounter learning more about you, what you guys do. I'm super excited about it. The problem is the person on my team doesn't know who's getting parked on it yet. But I love another source of passive income. So I'm becoming a very quick, excited student about what you do. And especially with my expertise, it fits right in. So I'M going to be stalking you guys a lot.

I love it. I love it. Now we're going to have another eight figure guy in the land business, which is phenomenal.

I'm going to play for a little bit and see if I like it or don't. That's probably my real tip, is try something before you go all in and make sure you actually do believe in it before you invest the entire kingdom.

Yeah, yeah. You know, one of my favorite books is Tiny Bets, and it talks all about that. And Scott, I think, was the one that recommended it. So I love that. One of those few rare gems from Scott. Todd.

Well, Scott rare.

Scott's got a engineer personality to him. I love it. So most of my best friends act like Scott. Very ordered. Serve a God of order. I serve a God of chaos. You know, we just serve different people.

Oh, yeah. I mean, Vinny, I think you're like my. My doppelganger. I've got a plaque in my. In my. In my bathroom that says I love chaos. You know, for my wife.

Or we create it if there's not enough around us. Right, Whatever.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So learn more about Vinnie Fisher. Go to TheTotalCEO.com I want to thank all the listeners and just remind you the only way, the only way we're going to get the quality of guests like Vinnie Fisher from the total CEO.com is if you do us three little favors. You got to subscribe, you got a rate, you got to review the podcast. Send us a screenshot of that review to the. To Support@the landgeek.com Supporthelandgeek.com we're going to send you for free our $97 passive income launch kit course. So please do that.

Great.

Vinny, are we good?

Mark? I mean, anytime being around you, how could you not be good? The energy is so high being around you. It's great.

Thank you. Thank you, Scott. Todd, are we good? Mark?

We're good, thanks.

All right, thanks.

Ready? One, two, three. Let freedom ring.

Now, after we did that, Vinny's like, I can't believe I went on this podcast.

I love how you guys are working here. Vinny, work a little more on that, but that's good.

Vinny was scared that the. That like he was gonna eject it or something. I could see the look in his eyes now.

I'm like, what's going on here? Where's this cheer going?

This is good.

So it's great.

Yeah, he's gonna go, yo, this. And now he's like, didn't you research? At the very end of the podcast, there's this totally dorky thing. How can you not be on this?

We have a Fisher fight song. We do the same thing, and it's all dorky and it's clunky, and it just works. So it's great.

I love it. I love it. Well, thanks again, Vinny, and we'll see everybody next time.

Hey, guys.