All There Is To Know About Marketing In Real Estate

Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the land geek with your favorite niche real estate website, www.thelandgeek.com. and I'm really excited for today's guest. He's going to help us sell faster. I love that with marketing. But before we talk to our guests, I would be remiss if I didn't properly introduce my co host. You know him, you love him. The brain, the professor. Your flights go sherpa. Scott Todd from Scott Todd.net landmodo.com learn anything about anything. Investor ninjas.com Scott Todd. How are you, Mark?

I'm great. How are you?

I'm great, I'm great. I'm excited to learn about how to market my properties better.

I mean, you should with like the, the way you're getting whomped on. I'm just saying.

What do you mean whomped on? Who's whomping on?

Me.

I think I'm walking on you. How many sales I've had this year versus you?

Oh, we're playing that game though.

I don't know.

I don't know. I'm just going with it. I don't know.

We're doing pretty well.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's been a good year, but you know, we have to create some tension here. So, you know, it can't just be a love fest.

That's true. That's.

There you go. Rewind the tape. And I'm doing better than you. There you go.

Fine.

Whatever. You might be up one anyways. Gene Volpe is our guest. He is the lead digital architect at GVI Media. Gene Volpe is the founder of GVI Media Media, formerly your real estate concierge speaker and national marketing Expert. He has 10 plus years of experience in the marketing arena. He is also well versed in the real estate field, including buying, selling, renting, marketing and consulting on over 200 real estate transactions. Before becoming a marketing architect, he served as a decorated technology manager for a small Fortune 15 company. All right, Gene, welcome to the show. So glad to have you here. So, Gene, let's just rewind the tape. What do you love about marketing? Like what got you into this thing?

Well, actually what got me in was leaving that fortune, that small fortune 15. But before I get into that, I gotta say, are you guys brothers? Because you fight like me and my brother. That was pretty good.

No, no. Maybe, you know, in a different life.

A different life. Well, listen, the opening was great and I enjoyed that thoroughly. It's made me feel like Thanksgiving dinner. How did I get into it? I Stumbled into it, if I'm being honest with you. I was. I worked for an IT company called. I won't say the name, but it rhymes with Horizon, starts with a V. Sure. No, I can say the name is Verizon. So I worked with them and we did local and wide area networking. While I was there, I had an opportunity to go through a course on how to invest in real estate. We're talking 0607 and I took that in an 09. I retired from Verizon to do that full time. Fast forward, as we were doing closings and deals, myself and my partner started to realize that there was much more money to be made at the table than just occupying the one investor seat. The real estate agents make commission, there's a mortgage company there, title, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And we started to dabble in different areas. And sort of one I dabbled into by accident was my social media at that point, specifically Twitter was, was pretty solid and I had a good following and I would post regularly on Twitter. And a couple guys from Virginia saw my feed and said, you look like the kind of guy we'd like to partner with. Can we do this thing with you? So these two guys chased me around for a little while and finally got me onto a video call and I saw what they were doing. They built the first, from what I can tell, the first real estate video platform for real estate agents. And then not to bore you any longer, I signed on. And what happened was while I was doing all that real estate video for real estate agents in 2009, we still, we still have a hard time getting them to do it in 2020. So you can imagine what it was like back then. But while that was happening, marketing started to morph from physical to digital. That's. That was the inception of Facebook ads right around that time. Google pay per click. And so with my background at Verizon and in the IT world, it just married up with in real. You know, I don't know if you guys know this, but real estate agents tend to be challenged technically.

So you know what? I have a good buddy who is a real estate agent, and every day it seems like he's asking me for some tech advice.

Yeah, that's standard across the industry. It's not a knock. I mean, you wouldn't want me to sell your house. You know, I'm in the marketing field, so it's definitely not a knock. But I started to realize there was a niche there for me to jump into and that Was as the times were changing and things were going more to the computer and the PC and the Mac than they had been in the past, I knew that there were some real estate agents out there that needed help. And then, you know, that morphed into. In 2016, we took our real estate marketing services and rolled them out to the entire world. So now it doesn't matter who it is. We'll do restaurants, lawyers, all that good stuff.

Fantastic. Fantastic. So, Gene, as far as, you know, marketing for real estate, what is something like you. You see in the marketplace that people are making a common mistake with?

That's a really simple one, I think, and I think there could be two of them. I'll start. I'll lead with the easiest one, and that is consistency. The. The algorithms to each of these sites. When we talk social media, we're talking the big dogs, right? Facebook, Google, my business, Instagram. Wherever you're at, where there's 2 billion users, those platforms reward for you being on their site more often than not. And, you know, there's a lot of history in the marketing space. And part of that history is that, you know, five years ago, I would get real estate agents that would say to me, you know, I think I'm posting too much. Everybody sees all my deals, and it's just. It's overwhelming for most of my followers. And I feel like five or seven years ago there was an argument for that. Now it's the opposite. There's so much noise, so much white noise, that in order for you to be out there and recognize on a regular basis, you have to be extremely consistent. On the flip side, the platforms will reward you for using their platforms more often, not less often. So the more you're there and posting and viewing, the more they're going to show your content organically to people that maybe you don't know, and that could generate business for you.

Interesting. Scott. Todd, what are your thoughts?

I mean, a couple things. One is consistency, right? So how many times do we see people that aren't consistent in their marketing? They don't show up for their deal. The week, they don't show up to the platforms, they think that they're overdoing it. In reality, they're not doing it enough. And I always make the argument that if you think about, like, email, for example, sign up for an email list, okay? I mean, pick the company. The good ones will email you daily. The great ones will email you three times a day to the point that it's annoying. They either want you to buy something or unsubscribe. And yet when you're starting off new, what's the intention or what's the thought process? Oh, I'm gonna lose somebody from my list. So I'm gonna email them once a month. Well, once a month, they don't even know who you are.

Right?

Like, you gotta be consistent in your pick the day of the week, pick every day, do something, but show up every day so that they know your name. They open your stuff. When they open your stuff, guess what? It sends a signal to Yahoo or Gmail or whoever. Hey, I'm interested in this. And then the algorithms don't sweep it over the junk folder.

There you go, There you go. So, Gene, if you're talking to a client and they said, hey, I just bought this 20 acre ranch in Texas, I want to start selling it. And you know, I hear these, these crazy Land Geek guys talk about marketing on Facebook and Craigslist and the land sites like landmodo.com, maybe Zillow. In your experience, where do you think they should start based on your social media experience?

Well, if somebody said that to me outside of, of this conversation, the first thing I would say is, so have you talked to those guys at the Land Geek yet? That's number one. Let's, let's create, let's, let's, let's save money. Let's avoid all the fluff until we need it. And I would reach out to these guys and say, hey, I saw your stuff. I know what you do. I have a property, xyz. Right? And then you go, that property's junk. I'm not interested. Or maybe you say, love it. We'll take it off your hands and let's make a profit together at both points. And the one point, if you're buying it from me, obviously I'm done with my search. Right. The next part of it would be, well, if these guys are successful, success leaves clues in a lot of cases. What are they doing right now to promote their stuff? So I would actually go on and start to look to see what you guys were doing and where you're getting the most interaction, then I'd steal it. If I'm being honest, I get, I would recreate it. You don't have it licensed that you're doing X, Y and Z on Facebook and you're, you know, there's a bunch of things you, oh, wait, you're on Snapchat. Why would they be on Snapchat? Let me take a look. And obviously I made that up. Let's Take a look at that and let's see if I think it's effective and I'll try to recreate it for a cost effective, you know, at a cost effective price and see what I can come up with. I mean, that, to me, that's the easiest thing. We want to generate as many one on one conversations with people that are interested in what it is that we're selling before we start spending money on the, what I call the carpet bombing theory. Just throw it out there and see what sticks.

Nice, Scott. Todd, I just heard Gene mention one of your favorite favorite phrases.

Success leaves clues.

Success leaves clues.

It does. I mean, like if you, if you open your eyes and look around, well, then you know, you can, you can piece these things together. You just kind of got to get out of your own way. I think a lot of times, you.

Know, I want to, if I can speak to that a little bit more, I'm a decent example of success leaves clues. I have been a fan of Gary Vaynerchuk for 100 years and he's just got. In the beginning it was rough. It was hard to listen to all the F bombs and everything. But once you get through that and you get to the content. For me, I always felt like he had a good heart, did the right thing. He has a digital marketing agency that's now expanded in the sports, and he gets probably $100,000 an hour to speak all throughout the world. And I thought, yeah, that's what I want to do. So what did I do? I watched what he did, I studied, I created the services that he creates. I go out and promote and do video, sort of not, not like he does. He's got 18 people on staff, but you get the idea, right? And I bet you if Gary V. Was on this show, I'd say, yeah, bro, I steal everything you do. And he would go, that's awesome.

Yeah, he would say, that's effing awesome.

Yeah, you're right, actually, he would.

Yeah.

So.

In marketing, it's such a big, big field and, you know, it seems like every day there's a, there's a new sort of way to market or, you know, a new tool to use. Generally speaking, what's sort of your philosophy about effective marketing?

Again, really easy, simple to do, often overlooked. So I'll give you. Let's stick with real estate. Before I, before I hit that, let me tell you what the theory is. Work backwards, okay? And I'll explain that. But let's talk about the real estate perspective. I'll say Something to a real estate agent. And they'll say to me, you know, I hate these real estate agents that put up four and a half minute videos of their properties. Why? I don't want to watch that. Why would they ever do that? And I go, well, first of all, you have to remember that you're not their audience in a lot of cases, you're their competition. So who are they shooting for right now? They're shooting for a million dollar buyer that's on the move and on the look for a property in a lot of cases. And I asked them, do you think that that potential buyer wants to spend an hour getting ready and put their dogs in cages and getting the kids dressed and out of school, or at least a BabySitter to drive 40 minutes to see this property, walk through it for an hour and a half with an agent, then come home and undo all that stuff? Or do you think they would rather either decide if they like it and want to go see it and spend the time, or completely eliminate it altogether in four and a half minutes? I guarantee if I was spending a million dollars, I would take a decent portion of that four and a half minutes to know if that's a property that I want to take step two for. So the mistake that's made a lot of cases is people market from their own perspective, and that's wrong because you're not your own client. You're not going to be your own buyer in most cases at end. The. The end. So what I've done is I help my clients work backwards. So what I would say to you is, mark, if we're sitting down, I'd say, mark, tell me what your avatar looks like. Who is your perfect. So I do this, I'll stick again with real estate. I'll talk to real estate agents and I'll say, you've been in the business for more than 12 months, right? Yes, in a lot of cases. Okay, think about the last 12 months. Think about the easiest transaction you had. That, that was the funnest transaction you had, where you made the most money. And at the end of it, you said, you, man, I Wish I had 40 of those. And they go, oh, that was my old boss, Jon Jones. Okay, so tell me what Jon looks like. Okay, he's a CEO. He is 57 years old, he's got three kids. Now you're telling me stuff about possibly where he lives and where his eyeballs are. And I would say in order for us to get six more Johns next year, we're gonna target LinkedIn, that's what we're gonna do because he's there, right? So let's first work off of where their eyeballs are and go in the opposite direction. Then once we create the content and the advertising on LinkedIn, and I just made that up, once we created there for John, then we can take that and duplicate that anywhere. It doesn't matter if we buy accident, pick a buyer off Facebook, that's gravy. But I want to target your avatar first. In order for do that, for us to do that, you need to know who your avatar is.

Scott. Todd, what do you think?

Yeah, I think that's a big deal for a lot of people, right? You know, like that avatar. Because that, that means that you gotta ask questions, okay. Especially if you're starting new, right? Like you gotta, you gotta find out what do you do for a living, okay. You know, like you, you gotta ask questions. And I think a lot of times people are scared to ask questions, especially in the beginning about their customers, right? Like it's, they're scared enough to get the credit card number, let alone like, tell me about what you do. Tell me some of your hobbies. I mean, think about that scares people. So Gene, how do I get this information? How do I learn about people like this?

Well, let's, let's talk twofold. Number one is the easiest. What you just said, ask. It's conversationally. I can find out anything I want about you because I'm good at the back and forth. Like, Scott, tell me what you're interested in. Do you have kids? I mean, these are easy questions. Where do you work? Where do you live? What's your goals in four years? Like, there's a million things we could do. The other thing I could do is prob. Stalk you on social media. Did you guys, have you guys ever seen the Great Hack on Netflix?

Yeah. Yeah, I did see the Great hack.

Okay. So one of the things they mentioned, and I always have fun with this, I think this is a mind blowing stat. But they talk about on the Great hack, that whole Cambridge Analytica thing where they took data outside of Facebook. Cambridge Analytica had over 5,000 data points on every user that they had in their database. So I always say to people, let's put that in the context, mark, start naming 5,000 things about yourself. Go ahead, I'll wait. And people go, I can't. And I go, well, Facebook can. And so, and that's just the bottom line. So. And again, going back to Gary Vee, Gary Vee had this old thing, too. You want to find out what people are interested in, just go look at the photos they put up on social media. I can find out what sports team you're a fan of. I can find out where you live, what your past job experience was. There's so much there for free that people are. Here's the other part I love about it. Those 5,000 data points that are on Facebook, you gave the majority of that to Facebook. Like, that's you telling them, this is how much I make. I'm married to so and so. These are my sisters and my brothers. They have kids. I'm liking all their kids. Communion pictures. They probably know now that they don't probably know. They know that we just had a communion in my family. So we're probably Catholic, right? Like, there's so many things you can discern from what people are doing on social media if you take the time. So my thought would be the quickest. Back to your question, Scott. The quickest way to do it would be to just sit down and break bread with that person and ask the questions you need to know the answer to. If you're shy and you're worried about what the answers are going to be and you don't like people go online. It's going to take you five times the amount of time to do it, but the info's there. And by the way, the best ones do both.

They do both.

You know what's funny too, Mark, is. And I never really thought of this. Like, I don't know why I never thought of this. But, you know, one of the things that you can learn about, I mean, and this is super stupid, easy, it's ridiculous. You know, you can. You can also learn, like, it's not precise, but you can learn a lot about someone's income, okay, From. From where they live. So if you sold them something and you have their address, well, go to. Go to Zillow, for example. Punch in the address. Get the Zestimate, the Zillow estimate, right? Let's say that the house is worth, you know, $300,000. And then look, look back at what they paid for the property. Like, look at what they paid for it. We know that on average, most people. Most people, okay, the rule of thumb is about three to four times your earnings, okay? So look at what the household value either is today or was when they bought the property. That gives you a snapshot in time. And it's not dead on because it's noise in there, but it's a pretty good estimate. If you have zero data. And I think, Gene, I think that's what you're saying too is you don't have to have everything and it doesn't have to be precise. Facebook isn't precise. They make assumptions about what they know about you. And you can start to do the same thing about your customers is start to make assumptions until you have new, better data to replace it.

I think you nailed it. If you're looking for me to make to profile Scott Todd in the next eight minutes, it's going to be hard for me to do it. But if I go and put the effort into sending an email to him and setting up a coffee chat and going out for dinner and meeting his family, I mean this is a process, right? The sales process from beginning of life to the end sometimes, especially in real estate, can be a seven year cycle. So this is one of these things where if you're expecting, okay, Scott, here I am, we just met each other, tell me what you need and by the way, let me sell you the service. Probably not going to happen. This is one of those things where you got to fill your pipeline with as many people as you possibly can that could potentially use you down the road and then learn as much about them as you possibly can and zone in on those things that are most important and make sure you're paying attention to them.

No, absolutely. So Gene, what's some of the worst advice you see or hear given in marketing circles?

Some of the worst advice, I mean I can't say that this is advice, but I think especially in this year, in this, these every four year cycles, people don't realize that any kind of political or religious post that you're going to make public going to lose you 55% of your base. And I always love saying that because the math doesn't equate, it doesn't make, it doesn't match. Right. 45% of your people don't agree with you, but you're always going to make people mad. And I have seen clients, my job as the marketing guy for some of these companies is to say, listen Mark, that's a great idea. But let me tell you what the data says. If you post something about Pope John Paul, whether positive or negative, you're gonna lose fit, let's just say 50% of your people and the mistake people make is I'm so passionate about what's going on right now that I'm okay with that. And that's sort of where my job stops. It's your stuff, right? Like if that Was Mark, then you can't come back to me later and go, you know, I don't have as many phone calls as I did six months ago. Well, I could tell you why that is because you didn't listen to my advice. But I don't, I don't know that anybody's necessarily giving the advice to go out and post public, publicly, politically and religiously. But I feel like if you're, if you're going down that road and think that 100% of that, what you're posting is private, I think you could be in for a rude awakening in the way of dried up funnel.

You know, this could explain a lot of things just for me personally because, you know, so often I want to rip on Scott Todd or Eric Peterson on our Roundtable podcast. I think I'm actually repelling a, a big part of our audience that love these guys.

But see, like Mark. So like, okay, so like, when you, when you tease Eric Peterson, who lives in Tennessee, about not showing up to the Roundtable podcast with a rib in his mouth, I mean, you could be alienating the rib eaters, the rib lovers.

You know, I think it's true. I could be. I do think if, you know, Gene, if he actually listened to the podcast, he would know that, you know, everything I'm doing is out of love. And, you know, it's obviously just completely ridiculous, like I'm the butt of the joke and not Eric. So I think it's, I think it's, it's more self deprecating than anything else. But it's, and it's kind of funny. But I think to Gene's point, though, if I said it in a serious way, I think people from Tennessee would be like, what a jerk, right?

And it would be a turn off.

Gene. So I agree with what you're saying here, right? And like, I, we're driving, you know, like we're right in the middle of a political season right now. And I'm driving down the road yesterday, literally, I look over at this business and they've got a candidate flag. They got a candidate's flag out on their flagpole. They got the American flag and then they got the candidate's flag, right? And I looked at it and I'm like, wow, there's no doubt who the owner of this business is rooting for. I see it right there. Now I'm either neutral to it, like, who cares? Or I'm like, yeah, you're my man, you're my people, and I'm going to commingle with you. Or I look at it and go, I'm never eating at that place again. To your point.

Right. Yep.

Now it's also. So you have that mindset and I. You're going to alienate the people who you're not on their team, even though we're one team. But that said, there is this mindset too about like, if you're not insulting someone by noon, you're not doing enough marketing. Okay. Like, that's a quote that Mark loves to quote.

That's a Dan Kennedy quote. But, but it's basically the avatar. You're excluding people that are on your avatar. You're not, you're not insulting people. You're not, you're not insulting people. You're essentially excluding them. Saying, this property is for people that hunt and fish. It's not for everybody.

There you go.

There you go. That's kind of, that's the difference.

Well, so I want to, I want to speak that. I think first of all, Scott, it's funny that the way you described the candidate's flag. I'm a gambling man and I would put a lot of money down on the fact that I know exactly whose flag it was based upon the way you said it. Really? Oh, for sure. Well, we can. I'll guess off air, right.

Guess now. It doesn't matter me. It's not my signs, not my, my flag.

It was a Trump flag.

No.

Oh, I was. I'm glad I didn't put any money on it.

That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. That's funny. I think that, you know, what you were saying is really, really, it's important because there are people and I, and I actually have a business partner that at the end of the, like his on ramp with, with new clients, he'll say I am X, Y and Z unapologetically. And he'll tell you his political affiliations, where he comes from, and he goes, is this going to be a problem for us and, and for the people that vote the opposite way, that say, yes, it is, he's okay with that and we move on. So it's almost like, it's almost like a pre vetting process where if you feel that strongly about not working with people on the other side of the aisle, it's your prerogative. I personally am not a fan of that business strategy. My strategy is more like this. I vote for me and my wife and my two girls, and you're going to vote differently than I am and we can be friends. In the meantime, I'm not going to hate your face because you're a little bit different and have different priorities than I do as a family. That's just the way this country works. So in the meantime, if you want to give me $1,000 a month for my services and I can help you make more money, I'm all about it.

Yeah, I, I, I agree. I mean, you know, it's, that, that seems a little extreme, you know, you.

Know, there's people out there doing it, though.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I personally haven't had any experience with it, but I can imagine that there's, you know, businesses doing that, which I think, to your point, is not smart business.

Yeah.

So, Gene, this has been really great. I think your mentorship has been super fantastic, enlightening. But it's now that time, the podcast, we're going to ask you for your tip of the week. A website resource, a book, something else actionable for the art of passive income listeners to go improve their businesses, improve their lives. What do you got?

So first, let me say to both of you, thank you very much for having me. I had a good time. This was a really good conversation. I got to ask you, Scott, what kind of camera are you using? Because your, your video is fantastic.

I am using a Sony A6500 mirrorless DSLR. This is not DSLR. It's mirrorless and it feeds right into HTML. So thank you.

Looks great, Gene.

Don't inflate his, his ego any more than it needs to be with his camera skills.

I'm sorry, but I will say this, Mark, I know you got that shure microphone there, right? That's one of the reasons why you sound as clear as you do. So you guys have your stuff together. No question about it.

Thank you.

Nicely done. So my tip, this is. I don't know how I'm gonna, which direction I'm gonna take this. If you're watching, it's, you can see it. If you're not watching, it is the 8020 sales and marketing book by Perry Marshall. And I mean, I think we all know The Pareto Principle, 80 20, and all that good stuff. And one of the things that I have struggled with personally over time is growing your business, you know, and I feel like even in real estate, I'm getting this sense that for your single real estate agents, 6 to 8 million. And this differs by where you're at in average sale price. Right. But let's just say in my area, it seems like six to eight million dollars a year in sales for a real estate agent that lives close by me is a ceiling. Right. And what I mean by that is that one person to handle that business sort of runs out of time. At some point you're going to only be able to service so many clients and you're going to run out of time. So I feel like that's a really good starting gauge for these folks. And if you're not in real estate and you're in selling land or you're in a restaurant business, I want you to think about what you think your ceiling is. And that ceiling ends up being where I'm running, running, running, running. And I start to realize that this is not what I got into this business for because I'm working way too many hours and I can't seem to surpass this number. Right. And when you get to that point, I invite you to read chapters 15 and 16 of this book. And just to keep it real, real simple. I actually read this on the plane to Florida and I remember when my head exploded because it's such a simple concept, but I never heard it said to me the way that Perry puts it. And it was basically probably, if you look at your daily day, 80% of what you do is a $10 an hour task. And so the other 20% that you do is probably your money making task. So let's say for argument's sakes, it's your $100 an hour task. Why wouldn't you hire somebody at $10 an hour to take that 80% off your hands so that you can now work 80% on your $100 tasks and 20% on your thousand dollar tasks? And then when you hit that number again, why not hire somebody for $100 an hour to take you see how we're scaling, right? And when I read that part of the book there, he actually spoke to me a couple times because one of the things he said is, I know what you're thinking. You're probably concerned that nobody is going to want to do your $10 an hour tasks. And that's demeaning to people. And he said, get out of your own way. There's people that will line up at your door to do things like making stuff up, your laundry, your cooking handle stuff, your phone calls, your cold calls. There's people that would die to do, and maybe it's 15, maybe it's $20 an hour, right? There's people that will die and run through brick walls to do your $10 an hour task so you can get to the hundreds. And believe me, you're not gonna have a hard time if you want, if you're advertising, you're paying $100 an hour for something for you to get to your thousand dollar an hour. So chapters 15 and 16 of that book, if you don't want to read the whole thing, those were two eye opening chapters for me as far as getting past that glass ceiling of income for my business.

No, I love it. I love it. And it's, it's so true. I'm actually writing my second book just about how to scale your land business. And that's one of the big things that we're talking about in, in that book. So I'm going to steal Perry Marshall's illustration because just like you said, why not?

Yep.

But I'll, I'll give him, I'll give him some credit.

Actually.

Gene Volpe, who referred me, I'll take the credit too.

Right. I'll love it.

There you go. So before we get to Scott Todd's tip of the week, I just want to mention our sponsor this week is flight school. Learn how the next 16 weeks can literally transform your life. Start building your passive income machine, but do it with someone who's done it thousands of times. Go up the mountain of land investing with Scott Todd. Quickly, safely, efficiently. In fact, the tuition for flight school, we guarantee you're going to make it back 180 days or less, either cash or terms deals. Just show us your work. There is no risk. There's no risk. Learn more. Go to landgeek.com training thelandgeek.com training get on a call. Learn more. Scott Todd, what's your tip of the week?

You know, Mark, one of the best things that you can do with a team, team of people is team building. Right. You know, like we get together and we, we bond. Okay. And companies love to do team building exercises. Oh, let's get the team together and we're all gonna work together on something. And typically the more fun you make it, the better the team bond. We work in a remote environment. I mean, I have people all over the globe working on my team and we really don't bond. Right. Like we know people, but there's no bonding. What if we could do team bonding through zoom? And that's my tip of the week. Check out the link that I'm going to give you right now. I know, we'll put in the show notes. The website is actually ARC A R C.devw remotegame and if you go there for free, you can download a remote game called the Hike. And Basically it's a 60 to 90 minute basically. Choose your own adventure path. The teams make decisions, they attempt to stay alive and have a good time in the process. Get to work together, get to know each other. Try it out. And you can have one to seven teams, 10 people per team max.

This would be really fun, right? Yeah. Let's do some land geek bonding.

Maybe we should do this at boot camp. Maybe we should cancel this tip that we can do it at boot camp.

We could. You know what, we could do this boot camp. Right, but because one to seven teams, 10 players per team, that's 70 people.

That's right. Little bonus activity.

I love it. What do you think, Gene Volpe?

I'm all about the team building. Let's do it. As long as there's like a good beer there and some food, I'm in.

Virtual beer. Virtual food. Why not?

I got to provide that for myself. Yeah, never mind.

Yeah. Well, my tip of the week is learn more about marketing strategy. All things marketing. Go to genevolpe.com we'll have a link in the show notes and Gene Volpe from genevolpe.com Are we good?

I think this was great. I thank you both.

Thank you, Scott. Todd, are we good?

We're good, Mark.

Well, I just want to remind the listeners, look, the only way, the only way I'm gonna get the quality of guests. We're gonna get the quality of guests like@genevolpe.com Gene Volpe, I can't remember his name anymore. It's Gene Volpe from genevolpe.com is if you do his three little favors. You got to subscribe, you got a rate, you got to review the podcast. Send us a screenshot of that review. To support thelandgeek.com we're going to send you the wholetailing course. How to double your money 30 days or less for free. So please do that. Alright, Scott, let's do this. One, two, three.

Let freedom.

Freedom. Ring.

Ring.

Not bad, not bad. Gene's got that look on his face like, if I knew you guys would end like that, I don't know if I would have showed up.

No, I've done way worse. Don't worry.

All right, thanks everybody.