Everything You Need To Know About Taxes In The Raw Land Niche

Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the Land Geek with your favorite niche real estate website, www.thelandgeek.com. and today's podcast is near and dear and personal to my heart. And before I introduce today's guest, I know everybody's like, is Mark bringing on like one of his family members? Better. Better than a family member. But before I reveal why this is such a personal podcast for me so near and dear to my heart, I would be remiss if I did not properly introduce my co host, Six Sigma. You know him, you love him. The smartest guy in the room, Scott Todd from scotttodd.net landmoto.com and most importantly, if you're not automating your Craigslist postings, posting domination.comLange Today's podcast is sponsored by posting domination.comLandgeek in this time that I just did that little intro, I just posted 124 listings on Craigslist. So boom.

That might be a little aggressive, Mark, in the short time you did the intro, but I will tell you, it's amazing to me how Craigslist is still making the phones ring when in fact, you know, other people are looking at other platforms. Craigslist is non stop traffic, baby.

I know, I know it. So let's talk about today's guest, shall we?

You know, I think we have to.

Right, we have to talk about today's guest.

I'm excited. And this is, this is really. A lot of people think this is a boring topic, right? Like, I mean, I went to school for this for four years and you know, okay, I gotta admit, it's kind of a, kind of boring. But it's exciting and I'm excited to talk to.

Well, I'm excited about it because everybody always asks me, mark, should I do an S corp, should I do a C corp and you know, an llc? You know, they asked me about tax issues and I always say the same damn thing. I'm not a CPA and I can't give tax advice. But, you know, who is Jim Atkinson?

Yeah, there you go.

From atkinsoncpa.com My personal CPA. No longer do I need to speak for him. He could speak for himself. Jim Atkinson, how are you?

I'm doing well. I feel this is like quite the intro I've never had. I feel like I should be like busting through a tarp or something. This is quite the intro.

No, it's fantastic. And the reason it's so personal to me is, you know, here's a guy that saves me Money on taxes guides me financially and, and keeps me out a lot of trouble. So, you know, he's like family. But this is a really complicated topic. I mean, Scott Todd, you know, we get questions all the time and the three of us are doing a very simple Mike Michalowicz system called Profit First. So Jim, can you kind of rewind the tape for us and kind of give us a little bit about your background and then why, why you like Profit First?

Okay, yeah, absolutely. So I've been practicing accounting for over 20 years now. I've had my own firm for and working with small businesses and individuals, helping them maximize tax savings and handle their, their financials. And you want me to talk about Profit First?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Okay.

And so Profit first is something I became aware of maybe two years ago. It's a book by Mike Michalowicz. I read it, was instantly interested in the approach because one of the most common problems I have, I work with a lot of people that want financial statements done prepared for their business, but they don't ever really use them. They don't use it to manage their company. What they really want to know, and the most important thing for the business owner is how much cash do I have to spend? What can I pay myself? Where does all the money go? All these different questions that Profit first is basically a system that creates a forced discipline on making sure you pay yourself first, essentially. And I think we all three have talked before about using it and it's a very effective way to make sure you keep money in your company.

Yeah, I mean, it's really been phenomenal for me because I really would do what Mike Michalowitz would talk about in the book, which was sort of, you know, bank balance accounting. I'd just look at my bank account and then feel good or feel bad, Right. Depending on the, the ebbs and flows of that account. Where now there's like a built in discipline to it where there's money that goes off to profit, there's money that goes off. The taxes I never have to worry about will there be enough money for taxes. It automatically flows from there. And most importantly is I'm assured a profit for you. Scott Todd, you've got a, you've got an accounting background. How's it helped you?

Well, look, this is a capital intensive business that we run, right? Like we can't go buy land without capital. And so part of the challenge that I had as I transitioned from an employee to a full time investor is man, how do I keep the cash Flow flowing. How do I keep the cash in the business so that I could continue to buy properties while still living? Because I got to pay myself. And so when I started looking at the profit first plan, I realized, okay, this is a way of doing that. But I think I even do it a little bit different than you do, Mark. So I do a modified plan, a modified profit first. And what that means to me is that, and I know this is a plan that's kind of supported by the profit first system, but what it does is I take out 30%, you know, as the money hits my account, I take out 30% towards land so that money remains in my account so I can go buy more land. Because look, it runs us about 30%, right? On average it's about 3%. So whatever hits my account, I take 30% of that and that's my land money. And then after that I follow all of the formulas in terms of profit comes out next, then my salary, then the balances, operating expenses. And it's amazing because when you do that, it really does line up and you're forcing the profit, you're forcing the expenses, you're forcing everything that you need to back into the formulas.

Yeah, it's great. It's great. So Jim, you know, when you get a new client, what are the typical questions that you see or the typical sort of mistakes that people make and how can we avoid them?

Well, let me mention first, one of my biggest questions I get you kind of alluded to at the beginning is about what entity type. So that's a huge one because you know, the age old answer to that question is, well, it depends. And you know, the proper entity is different in almost every circumstance. But I want to dispel some myths here. One of the things people, people often come in and say is, you know, I need you to help me with my business taxes. I'll say, okay, what kind of entity do you have set up? Do you have an S Corp, a partnership or sole proprietorship? Be like, oh, I have an llc. Well, you know, an LLC and this is a common misconception, it's not even recognized by the irs. It's a, what's called a disregarded entity and you get to choose as an LLC owner or are actually LLC owners are called members. An LLC member can choose what type of tax status they have. So if you're a multi member llc, you could be a partnership, a corporation, or an S corporation. If you're single member llc, you can be a sole proprietor or an S corporation or C Corporation. So you have all those choices.

Now from a tax standpoint, how are they taxed differently?

So sole proprietor is most often the. This is the most simplistic form of business to run. There's less complications, there's less headaches as far as record keeping and then you can still have the limited liability if you have an llc, you know, running as your sole proprietorship. However, from a tax perspective, it's the worst because you pay self employment tax on 100% of the net profit. So essentially that's roughly 15.3% extra tax on top of your income tax. You have a small business. But once you start making I usually tell clients when your profit is going to be north of 30 to $40,000, you definitely want to look at other structures. Now S Corp is, this is depending on the type of industry. But an S Corp is typically the most favorable from a tax perspective. But if you're buying and selling property, it's not necessarily the best, but the way that you buy and sell property with your installment sales, it actually works out okay. And that's a whole long rabbit trail we could get into about taxes and accounting that would make your listeners drive off the road. But the reason that S Corp is typically a better tax type is because you get the combination of being able to take distributions and salary and you're only paying payroll tax on a fraction of the income. Whereas a sole proprietorship you're paying on 100% of the profit. And partnerships, same way as the sole proprietorship. But the reason a lot of people choose partnerships is there's a lot of flexibility and how you can move money around. To put it in simple terms.

So if I have an LLC set up and I'm like, hey, I'm going to tax myself as a sole proprietor and then I cross that 30 to 40,000 threshold, can I change? Can I say now I want to be taxed as a S Corp?

Absolutely. And in fact the irs, they want you to change. They want you to make the election right when start the company. But they give you a. They've made it really easy to change retroactive. In fact, you can make the change. I will have several clients that we will make an election to be an s Corp for 2016 as long as we do it before March of 2017. So it's a, it's a pretty good situation. Now it's irs. They never turn, they never. At least I've never had one rejected for a late election. But technically you're supposed to do it. I think within 90 days of establishing the company, but nobody ever does. I always put. There's an excuse, and no offense to any attorneys out there, but I always put as my reason for filing late as the attorney failed to file properly. Timely file the paperwork.

That's hilarious.

Just throw the attorneys under the bus.

Yeah, I mean, it's always a good day when you can blame an attorney.

Right.

Jim just ran over all the attorneys.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, Jim, you're a geek like us, and I know that you're in the systems and processes and automation as a client. What kinds of systems and processes and automation should a new client have coming in that's going to make your life easier and their life easier. Is there anything you'd recommend?

Well, one of the things. And you introduced me to it, and I use it every day now. Basecamp is very good way to exchange, you know, documents. And especially when you're just getting started with working with a CPA or bookkeeper or whoever, having a great way to transfer a lot of information quickly. I use also a share file, which is a way of, you know, securely for those more confidential documents and stuff, transferring. But I'm also a big fan of QuickBooks Online. Is that your question? I'm sorry, I kind of get. See, I am a geek. I start talking about technology. It gets me all excited.

No, that is. That is the question. And I knew that, you know, I gave you a lob there.

Yeah, yeah. I actually have a. That's a problem. My shiny object syndrome. I love to check out new technologies and new things like that, but anything that I can do. And I know you're the same way to automate and to make it easily able to be delegated. I'm all for. In the project management stuff, Basecamp, I've used a lot of different project management ones, and there's deficiencies in all of them. So you gotta find out what works best for you. But Basecamp, I'm. It works perfectly for me.

Now, a lot of people ask me, hey, Mark, how do you get away with not being a dealer? Because you're in the business of buying and selling raw land, so there's no capital gains treatment on your properties. And I make the argument that I can bifurcate between in some deals I'm a dealer and in some deals I'm an actual investor. And I do that now to explain it legally. Am I being too aggressive or is this a gray area?

Say that again. So you're saying you can bifurcate being a dealer versus being an investor?

Investor. So If I hold a property a year today, right. Those properties I'm an investor in and when I flip properties before that, then I'm a dealer and I pay ordinary income versus paying ordinary income on all the deals I do.

Well, I mean, your business, the way, the way your typical land business is done, in your situation, I would argue you're definitely a dealer. Even if you're holding it over a year, it's because it's essentially inventory. I mean, it'd be like if I made, you know, a widget and it sat on the shelf for a year, that's still, still inventory. And then, you know, there's, there's really. And I don't know, off the top of my head, I believe it's five properties is the kind of the IRS rule. And it's not really, there's no hard and fast rule. Basically, if it looks like it smells like you're a dealer, they're going to call you a dealer. But I think that the tax court has shown like I believe it's five properties in a year, that if you're in your business, you're obviously selling them as well. I shouldn't say obviously there could be an instance that you would maybe want to hold something but not the way you do land. In that case, I would likely put that in a different entity, maybe set up a different type of entity that you would have as an investment company and one that's doing your, your land deals.

I like that. Hey, Mark.

So like when, when we did, when I did accounting for land investors back in February, that webinar thing, you know, we, we kind of talk about this a little bit and there, there are guidelines. I mean, Jim, Jim's right. There's, there's guidelines to go on. And what's cool about what's cool about the whole process is that the IRS will actually look at every single property on a case by case basis. So just because you're a dealer on this set doesn't like, and Jim saying it like, just because you're a dealer on land doesn't mean that you're dealing on everything. And in fact, if you, if you were going to hold some things then, then you could easily be considered even on land, you could even be considered a non dealer or an investor over there. It just depends on your marketing activities and your sales activities or you know, like if you went and bought another class of, of real estate that could be treated completely separate from the way that you do your land business. So it's pretty cool. I think A lot of people kind of get bogged down, oh, I'm a dealer, but yes, you could be a dealer, but you could also be an investor.

Right.

It all depends.

Right. And one of the biggest problems when I first started was I had the wrong CPA because I didn't start at a gym. And this CPA said, hey, Mark, you're a dealer. And like a car dealer, you know, you might sell that property for $32,000 on terms you have to take the whole $32,000 as if you sold it today, even though you're financing it over 15 years. And from a tax perspective, I got crushed. Right then I found Jim. He's like, no, they actually, you know, there's an exemption for raw land in the installment sale, you know, laws. And here's the code. And you only pay tax as you make money, which made life a lot better. Do you see that a lot, Jim, where people, you know, just don't even under. I mean, the code's huge. No one. No one person can know everything. So how do people get around it?

Yeah, that's. I mean, there's no way to know it all. You just got to know. And quite honestly, even you can make the argument that even you have to be very knowledgeable about it even to find it in the IRS code, because you have to know what terms to search for and things like that. It gets. Gets very tricky. And you know, in your situation, the way that kind of. Going back to what Scott was saying, the way the raw land was, was pretty cut and dried. But to his point, yeah, if you're doing raw land and at all, you're marketing it and selling it, trying to, you know, turn it fast, and.

You'Re.

Holding paper and it's all done, you know, approximately the same. Those are all regular deals. But then if you went and bought a strip mall or a commerc building and you were going to hold it to lease, or you were going to renovate it and then sell it, that's a different category altogether that can be bifurcated and handled separately. But I'm sorry, I'm jumping all over the place. I'm like the one off accountant that has a add and can't keep my mind on anything. But going back to your point about the IRS code, it's complex, and you got to get advice for that kind of stuff, because there's nothing worse than, you know, finding out. Unfortunately, sometimes two, three years down the road, the IRS decided to look at that return, and it's, you know, you've forgotten all the specifics behind it. So keep good records, too.

How do you keep good records?

Well, bookkeeping. Good bookkeeping is one thing, you know. You know, people get caught up in carrying receipts and stuff like that. I'm a big fan of scanning all that stuff because if I literally had a client that kept all their stuff in a warehouse and it got flooded and they lost everything, and we had to, like, kind of figure out what their tax return was based off of bank statements. And so I say scan the stuff, keep it, you know, to produce it for your cpa. But you need to have it if you ever get audited and try to keep. If you keep on top of the bookkeeping. You know, I do it daily for my personal business, but if you keep on top of the bookkeeping regularly, it's really not that overwhelming. If you let it build up, it can get very, very overwhelming fast.

Yeah. Deb is mad at me, by the way, because I've been letting it build up, but that's a whole other thing. I will get to it. Yeah, it's. In basecamp, I was like, I was.

Not going to take a personal jab.

At you, but no, I deserve it. I deserve it. So, Scott Todd, how are you organizing and keeping everything organized?

So I use Xero, not QuickBooks Online. It's very similar to QuickBooks Online. I've got some integrations built in. That's why I chose it. But essentially all. Everything goes into Xero. You know, what I. What I do is I actually do the installment method of accounting on every single transaction. So when we buy the. When we. When we sell the note or sell the trans. Sell the piece of land, we actually record something, you know, a journal entry, if you will, to installment, AR accounts receivable. We offset that with deferred gross profit. It's kind of, you know, installment method of accounting. So that way we. We look at our balance sheet and we know this is how much money we have in notes. This is how much money we have, this deferred gross profit for later on. We get our accurate financial statements and everything goes right into zero.

I love daily. Daily, Daily, daily. Jim Atkinson, what do you think?

Think about what? His process. I like 02. I will say Xero was kind of the. The first good online software that was out there. The first time QuickBooks Online came out, it was complete crap. They have been playing catch up with Xero. And I would say it's. It's comparable. Zero. The only reason I don't use Xero, I think Xero is a lot, you know, from a aesthetic standpoint, it's a lot more nice piece of software. The reports are a lot nicer coming out. And I just am used to QuickBooks because QuickBooks is what anybody, any small business accountant is kind of raised with QuickBooks. But I also support Xero too. It's great software. I don't. I just don't know it as well.

So, Jim, you know, when I go to the dentist, right, and they give me a crown, I leave the office, I don't know if they did a good job or not. Unless I go to another dentist and ask them, hey, how's that crown? Right? So the same thing with a cpa, right? How the hell are we supposed to know if a CPA is good or not unless another CPA looks at the return and says, oh, this looks good. Or I don't even know. Like, how would you recommend somebody going out and finding a competent cpa?

It's complicated because everybody. I mean, another CPA could take the work I do and probably find something that they would do differently. Not to say it's right or wrong, but I see the same thing. I see returns every day from new clients, new prospects, and I find, you know, areas where, you know, it might make me uncomfortable to file a return with that and, you know, different things. You know, my opinion is you want somebody that's, you know, easy to talk to, you got to have some chemistry, someone that's committed to bringing you value as far as tax saving strategies and, you know, somebody that has been in business for a while. Check, check the records too, with the. There's a difference. A lot of people don't know the difference between the different professionals too. There's a. There's CPAs, which in the accounting profession, that's kind of the highest level. There's EAs, which is an enrolled agent, which are good, but that's HR block.

They're like the C students in accounting.

Yeah.

Oh, Mark H in our block. Is there some personal dig here?

No, no, no, it's. Come on, that's rough.

Is that rough?

Yeah, I think so.

All right. They're the B minus students. Okay. Okay.

Well, look, I think, I think there's a. Not that I know of any personal HR blocks person, but I will tell you that I know like some, some EAs or whatever, and there's a difference. You know, like Jim saying, like, you know, he's. Jim's a CPA and CPAs are great. And then EAs, they serve a completely different function, right? A CPA is someone that can certify financials, whereas an EA is really just focused only on the taxes.

Right.

Like, it's.

There's a.

It's a difference in, you know, dentists. You know, one's. One can be more precise and one can be a generalist.

No, I would make the argument between, like, a brain surgeon. Right. And. And a general practitioner. They both go to medical school. But when it comes to saving my life, I'd rather go to the brain surgeon. No. Yeah, it's gonna be more expensive. But.

When it comes. When it comes to representing clients before the irs, though, the only three people that can do it as an attorney, a cpa and an enrolled agent. An ea.

So those.

I would recommend that you. Well, most attorneys. Most tax attorneys aren't going to prepare tax returns. They're there to interpret law and to deal with, you know, most of the time they're dealing with estate planning and complicated stuff like that. For tax prep, I would highly recommend the CPA or an enrolled agent. But quite honestly, like Scott was saying, CPAs. There's some CPAs that never touch a tax return their whole life.

Yeah, no, that's true. That's true. So, Scott, I apologize to the C student enrolled agent.

I'm just, you know, I don't want to alienate our audience here.

I do, but it's okay.

Right.

Look, if you go back to episode number one, we said that. We said we were going to alienate the audience.

No, it's not that we're going to alienate the audience because we don't have an audience of enrolled agents, but I think it's important that, you know there is a distinction between your enrolled agent and your cpa. I'm sorry. It's just true.

It's okay. It's okay. It's all good, Mark.

All right, so what's the third?

There are some preparers out there.

Wait, Jim, I'm losing you there. Go ahead.

No, I was just going to say, just there are some preparers out there that don't have an ea, a cpa, or law designation, that some of them are good, but you're rolling the dice.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I feel quite comfortable telling the listeners, don't roll the dice and get a CPA unless you have a very simple return. Save the money and go to an enrolled agent. Absolutely. A CPA will cost more money. Right. But in our business, it's a little bit. It's a complicated return, Scott.

Agreed.

Yeah.

You got separate schedules for every single property you sell.

Scott, why is that?

Why do I have to do that?

You have to have a separate form for every installment sale because they want the specific information for every property sold. So Mark's return. I charge him by the pound.

Well, you have to give me a better one.

I always win. Thickest return in the office and I'm proud of it.

He's like the day trader clients I have that show up with a statement that's like a foot thick.

Yeah, lovely. It's all good fun. This is what you have to look forward to, Scott.

I know. I'm there now. Yeah, Jim and I. Jim and I are going to have to meet because, like, I'm in Tampa. I'm just going to have to drive over and see him.

Oh, I didn't know you. Tampa?

Yeah, I'm close by. I used to live in Orlando, actually. Used to live not too far from where you are now.

Okay, awesome. Yeah, I'm right by. I can see Lake Eola from my office. So.

Yeah. Awesome, awesome.

So. Well, Jim, we're at that point in the podcast, your mentorship. This, you know, during this podcast has been fantastic, but we're going to ask you for one more tip of the week. A website, a resource, a book, something actionable where the art of passive income listeners can go right now. Improve their businesses, improve their lives. What have you got?

So I just started the book, so I can't speak to how great it is, but I've heard great things about it and I just started. I know you're a reader as well, so this might be one for you, but, you know, we're all distracted these days with everything I'm reading. My sister bought me Deep Work by Jim.

I've been talking about that pot, that book for, like months now. It's my favorite book. It changed my life. Really changed my life, honestly. I check email now twice a day.

That's awesome. That's awesome. That's. Yeah. So I just started it and am looking. You can tell I've been so behind. I have your podcast. I still listen to it, but I haven't listened to any podcast here lately. I've been listening to books, but I've got this one actually to read and yeah, I'm hoping it'll change my life too.

No, this book is so good and just a little brain hack that I would do that he mentioned was commencing shutdown. Giving your brain permission to shut down has been invaluable. Just. Just that alone. And I've. Scott, do I look calmer? Less distracted, more?

Yeah, you do.

And you know, like, I'm in the same exact boat as Jim. I've got the book and started listening to it. And you know, in the, in the intro, he makes a very good. Makes some very good points. I'm not, I haven't gone deep into the book to. Maybe I can. I can be calm like you. Maybe Jim and I are gonna like, get this book done together and we'll both be like, calm.

Yeah.

Yeah. I was an addict. I mean, I'd be checking email every 10 seconds like a dope, like a dopamine fiend. Now I'm. I'm, you know, I'm still scared like any actor would be, but it's been a good seven weeks of sobriety since deep work.

Well, you know, I actually did the. I stole it from Tim Ferriss and I saw it. I was reminded of it from an email I got this week. I actually put an email autoresponder on now that says basically I check email once a day and it's basically going to be 24 hours before I get in touch with you. You need anything urgently to call. So I guess I. This time of year is just. I'm bombarded with emails. It's impossible to stay up. So.

Yeah, and I haven't even emailed you.

I know that's right.

But a lot of that's just out of shame for being so far behind now. So, Scott, Todd, what's your tip of the week?

All right, Mark, this is one that you can use. And Jim can use it too. Maybe Jim, right, uses it. I don't know. But I just did this last night. I'm so excited. I had to share with you, with everybody. There's this little company called Shipt S H I P T. They will go. You can download an app. You download the app, you put in your information, you create an account. They will allow you to order things from your local grocery store. They will bring it to you. I mean, like, this was the greatest thing ever because I didn't want to go to the store. My wife didn't want to go to the store. Yesterday. We had things going on. So what do we do? We download the app. We chose the items that we wanted. They basically said, when do you want it? We said, hey, we'd like it between 4 and 5 yesterday. No problem. It showed up at like 4:30. You can't get any better than that. And it was just easy. Now, most precious asset.

What is it?

It's time. Right, Time. Who wants to stand in line at the Grocery store, not me. They stood in line at the deli for me. It's the greatest thing ever.

It's great. It's. It's so brilliant.

Check it out.

I love it. I downloaded the app as soon as you told me. Jim Atkins, your life's gonna change here. Shipped.

Yeah, he can.

Yeah, that's We've been doing here lately. I would never go into Walmart to shop. No offense to Walmart, but it's just. You know, those pictures they send around the Internet are true, but they have the Walmart not delivered to the Walmart pickup now, where you go in order and you pick it up, you just pull up and they load your car up. It's like, great, too, but shipped. I just. I had heard of it, and I saw somebody at Publix the other day with a shirt shipped. Shirt on. Walking around, picking. Filling a cart up. I was like, I need to try that out.

Yeah, two. Two weeks. They give you two weeks for free. Try it out. Plus $15 off your first grocery store visit. I mean, I'm saving money to the. To like, I'm telling you, Mark, I told you on a podcast, I don't know, some episodes ago, I think about run for. For the local office to make the Internet great again. Look, I'm helping everybody. Everybody working. Go do this.

Yeah, and so true. I mean, we can always make more money. We can't get more time. Speaking of making more money and protecting that money and making sure that it doesn't go to your favorite Uncle Sam. Check out AtkinsonCPA.com that is my tip of the week. Now, be warned that if Jim gets too busy to take my phone calls, you know, those of you that contact him, we're gonna have a problem. But do me a favor and, you know, after you listen to this podcast, if you want to learn more about Jim, you know, go to AtkinsonCPA.com and mention the land geek referred you. And I'm sure Jim might give you like, 50 or 75 cents off. You know.

I can work.

That was percent, right? 50 to 75% off, Mark.

No, no, no. That was percent. Oh, no, no, no.

All of a sudden, I'm losing audio here.

Yeah, see that?

75%. 75%.

Thanks, Mark.

Just like I'm a trifle deaf in my right ear.

75% of a million dollars.

There you go. There you go.

No, I'm just kidding.

Look, you know, I think that when it comes to good advice, you got to pay for it honestly. You know, you can certainly save money by Getting, you know, a C minus student at H and R block. But I think ultimately, you know, you're going to pay a lot more in taxes, so you got to pick your poison anyways.

You're going to pay.

One day. You're going to pay. We're all going to pay. All right. Atkinsoncpa.com I have a link to his site. I want to thank all the listeners. And look, the only way we're going to get my own personal CPA to come on this podcast is if you do us three little favors. You got to subscribe, you got a rate, you got to review the podcast, send us a screenshot of their view to support@thelandgeek.com we're gonna send you for free the $97 passive income launch kit. I do want to remind everybody today's podcast was sponsored by posting domination.com thelandgeek Jim Atkinson. Are we good? It's amazing. I even got you during tax season now.

This is good. We've been trying to do this for a while. It seemed like something always came up, so it was fun to do this.

This is great. Well, I really appreciate it, and I'll, you know, I'll get everything to Deb, so I'll let you get back to deep work so I won't bother you. Scott, are we good?

Mark? We're great.

All right, should we do it for Jim?

Come on. We got two.

All right, ready? One, two, three. Let freedom ring. That's good.

Good stuff.

It's good stuff. Jim just fired me as a client. He's like. He's like, I'll work with geeks, but not that geeky.

If everybody could just see the video of how we pull this off, you know, the let freedom ring thing, I think everybody would have a great appreciation for what we did.

I think they would.

Yeah. Thankfully, there's no video.

Yeah, no, yeah, absolutely. All right, well, thank everybody and we'll see you every next time. Thanks, Jim.

Thanks, Mark.

Thanks.

Bye.