From a Side Hustle to Full-Time Income: Real Student Results

Sa hey everybody. Welcome to Land Geek Nightcap. Tonight we're kicking back with Jess and Dave Farmerly. They started this land gig just to make a little bit of extra income initially so Jess could stay home with the kids. And now it's their full time gig. Dave even quit his W2. So we're going to hear their whole story. We're going to hear about their wins and their struggles and everything else. We're going to hear about what a typical day looks like today, four years later. So pour yourself a bourbon or beer or coffee and settle in. And remember, we are live every Tuesday night at 9pm Eastern. So please jump in the chat, ask your questions and hang out with us. So without further ado, Jess and Dave, welcome to Land Geek Night Cap.

Thank you.

Good to see you guys. And you guys were joined by John Burnett. John, eight is enough. Burnett.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I've got well, six children. There's eight of us total. So we just fit into a Suburban with two bench seats.

So.

Yeah.

And took a very long trip with, with a, with six kids.

Yeah, it was, what was it? It was, let's see, man. I think it was close to 20 hours of driving last.

You're brave, John.

I am very brave. But it was good. We kind of like I was telling Scott, we like have perfected the car seat arrangement to minimize drama and so we've got like the barrier car seat in the middle and then the older kids on either side. And so it creates a wall and it works. It's great. So there were still figuring stuff.

It's great.

Well that's awesome. Glad you had a good vacation, John. Hopefully you got some good R and R and the kids are all still alive. Good, good, good. But yeah, let's, so let's get down to. So tonight the Land Geek spotlight on Dave and Jess. So really we're gonna do tonight guys, just ask a few questions about your experience and we do get some comments occasionally in the chat here that we might throw in. And Jeff Storley's here. Ken Green is here. Ken, good to see you, man. It's been a long time. Daniel Bryan, Martin Conchola and others are tuning in. We usually get about like 20, 30,000 viewers, something like that, right? Yeah, yeah.

Somewhere, somewhere around there, give or take, you know, 19,980, you know.

I mean we're popular. What can we say? Yeah. So. All right, Justin, Dave. So let's get to it. You guys started this in 20, 2021. Let's, let's start with like what did life look like then and what really made you decide to start this thing?

Yeah, so at that time, I was a stay at home mom. I had been previously a teacher for about six years, but when we had our oldest daughter, Lila, we have three kids, I got to stay home with our kiddos. We had always said, like, kind of once our kids got to be school age, I would go back to, you know, help support our family. So at that time, Rowan, our youngest, was three and we have a fight. We had a five year old and then a seven year old. And Dave was working as an administrator for Northview Public Schools. Anything else you want to add to that at that time, what you were doing?

No. Okay.

So, yeah, starting to come to the realization that like, okay, you know, another year or two, Rowan's going to be in school. Starting to have like some anxiety about potentially going back to be a teacher, remembering like how many hours a day I spent and just wondering, like, can I be the mom that I want to be and be a teacher? So we had kind of started to mull around this idea of a passive income. And my brother actually came across a podcast. I'm not sure if it was Mark's, but it was the same kind of idea, this flipping dirt. My mom got on board, found dirt, Rich told us to read it, sent us the podcast. We listened to it the summer of 2021 and we're like, that's cool. But honestly, we didn't really do anything about it. At a few months later, we mentioned it to my sister in law, who's Dave's sister, and our brother in law because they were looking for a stream of passive income. They started to do some research, got really excited about it, and it was kind of one of those things that it was like, wait a second, they're really excited about it. Like, maybe we should be really excited about it too. So actually, I think, Scott, you helped sign us onto flight school. We both joined at the same time. We each have our own separate land businesses, but we started flight school together. So yeah.

Yeah, that was a unique situation. You don't have, you don't have many, you know, brother, sister, couple teams starting at the same time. But that, that hadn't been pretty neat. I mean, you guys are, you guys had an immediate accountability partner in your, in your sister and brother in law, right, Jesse?

We did. Yeah, we did.

I would say when we get together, Christmas, Thanksgiving, we kind of talk landmark.

Yeah.

Way too much sometimes what's going on? And we just get excited about it.

It's fun to share stories.

Yeah.

So, yeah, exactly what you said. It's fun to be able to support each other. I think mostly for you here you have someone that can fill this role that we're.

Yeah, but yeah, as far as what our lives look like, I mean, Dave was. Where are you going to work each morning? I don't know.

Like, so when we started, I was a principal of an elementary school and so I was there at 7am and I got home at 6pm Pretty much every day. I was responsible for everything that went on. I had about a staff of 40 people, 400 and almost 500 kids in the building. And it was, it was a lot, a lot of work. I, you know, after that. So I think that was the last year. When we started with my last year's principle, I moved to central office, but I was solving everybody else's problems. Today my wife and I went to a coffee shop by the river and we sat on our computer and worked and talked and came home and I got the kids organized with lunch and then we did a little more work and then we took care of dance stuff. Daughter had dance tonight.

Eye doctor appointment.

Yeah. Just kind of. I'm solving my own problems at this point and it's a beautiful thing. It's a very. It took me a while to transition out of it's not corporate world. Public education is not a corporation by definition, but it absolutely is in terms of structure and bureaucracy. So to transition out of that to doing our own entrepreneurship, it took a little bit of mindset shift, but it's one we wouldn't ever get back. It's been wonderful.

Yeah. We kind of went into it thinking we'll just supplement a little bit and then I don't know that we ever dreamed it would be what it is today and have the freedom that we, we have now.

Yeah.

So it's pretty awesome.

Yeah, that's awesome. And you know, I think teaching is amazing and being a, being a school principal is amazing. My sister the teacher and a principal. And like, kudos to you guys. Like, to me, it's such a thankless profession, I think. And it's really, it's really a travesty that it is. You guys, you guys mold our kids into being really great people. The thing with those professions and same with healthcare. Right. Is you're just, you're constantly, like you said, Dave, you're constantly serving others. Right. And you do that for a long time and a number of years and it is fulfilling. But for me, I remember waking up one day and I'm like, what am I going to serve? Like my family or myself? Right? Because I'm serving all of these other people. And yes, I'm having an impact and I'm helping people get better and I'm helping students and co workers and that type of thing. But when that is all taken away from my family so significantly, it's, you know, it's, it's tough, I think. So this business is great because it starts to buy back your time and then I don't know about. I think for you guys probably too. I like woke up one day and I'm like, this isn't a side hustle anymore, right? So like, talk about that moment. Like, when did you guys look at each other and say, you know what? This isn't like, this is more than a side hustle. Like we can, we can work a little bit harder at this and like blow this up and quit our jobs and gain our full time back.

I mean, I think for me it was actually at the end of flight school, which we hadn't even sold a property yet. But I mean, I drank the Kool Aid. I was like, you know, this could. Just hearing other people's success stories. I just was like, if we like persevere and just work really hard at this, feel like it could be our thing, you know, and you could quit your job someday. And we've worked hard and gotten to that point.

So we just wanted to be like John Burnett, right?

Everybody wants to be like that guy.

It's great.

We work really.

Three more kids and then you're there.

Yeah, that's it.

That ship has sailed.

Yeah, that ship has sailed.

But while we, while I was working, we, we sat at the kitchen table every night for two to three hours working. So we put the time and effort in. And as that snowball kept rolling, it was. I got. So I told you, I moved to the central office at that point. I got a new superintendent. And let's just say our personalities were not going to work to meet the needs of students.

We weren't going to be able to.

Work together to do that. So I was very grateful and almost humbled a little bit that we had, we had the opportunity, excuse me, for me, to leave that job. I walked into her office and said, I'm finished. And the look in her face, because most people depend on that biweekly paycheck. I have a friend in the land business that says the two most addictive things in the world are heroin and a bi weekly paycheck. And I think people are, you know, reliant, rightfully so, on that. But we had the opportunity for me to walk in and say, you know, thank you, but no thank you. And that was November 17, 2023, and we haven't looked back since. So it's. It's. It's crazy. I remember that day, but it will be a. A date that lives very well in our memory because it allows us to freedom that we have now. We're going to do everything we can to protect that.

Oh, that's amazing. Cheers to you guys. That's awesome. Awesome story. Speaking of cheers, look who's here. The Zen master.

Oh, my goodness.

Hey, look at that.

He's always with the entire world.

I just got done a little piano.

Yeah. Mike, good to have you join us. The Zen master, Mike Zano is here. We were just talking about Jess and Dave and how they just made the transition, Mike, from kind of the start of the side hustle to that impactful day that Dave quit his job. Right. And I'm sure you remember that day, John. I definitely remember that day.

I remember the day, too. I think it was April 4, 2018 for me. Wow. When I quit. Yeah.

What were your feelings?

Been a while.

Your feelings, John. Were you. Were you nervous? Were you confident? Were you?

I mean, I think kind of everything, you know, like. Like, you know, we. We had, like, full confidence that the model was working, but it was also just. I don't know. It's crazy. We actually recorded a video, which I should pull out again someday, because we wanted to remember, right? We wanted to remember because we knew, like, you know, like, where we're at now, we're like, seven years later. We wanted to remember why it was we did this. We wanted to remember working in the evenings and everything that we sacrificed to make this happen. And also just, like. Just remember. I don't know. Like, one thing that stuck out to me then was this. We. We got hand, foot, and mouth disease, which. Which, yeah, I don't recommend it too.

Like, you and your wife got it, not just the kids.

Yeah, we got it. It was awful.

We were, like, taking.

We were, like, popping the ibuprofen. We had our timers on alternating ibuprofen and Tylenol and stuff. And my kids had it, and, like. And I had to stay home from. From work for, like, days. But, like, the thing that, like, my son kept on saying over and over and over again was, daddy's home, Daddy's home. Like, man, it just. It just broke me. And, like, it was just it was just such a good reminder of, like, why we were doing this. And now I'm home. Like, I make breakfast for my kids every day and sit down with them for breakfast and dinner. Right. And, like, we've got. We've got the life that we want. So. Anyways, sorry I'm hijacking the podcast.

No, you're good.

Let me add that if I can. Jess and I joke. Our kids get mad when both of us are not doing something. Whether it's a field trip or taking them to the beach. They don't realize, like, it's not that we are abnormal. And I don't know if we ever would have thought we'd be in this movie position. So if someone's watching, we were absolutely in that mindset. Like, I was going to be a career educator, and it just kind of worked its way to not being a career educator. But our kids don't know what it's like to not have mom and dad at home all the time. And I. Uniquely, in our, our situation, we get to spend pretty much all day together.

So we spend a lot of time together.

We spent a lot of time together. And I, I love this, this person here and it. So it works out well, but it just, it's very special. So I don't know. I'm kind of ooing a little bit, but it just to reminisce and how far we've come and where we've come is. It's pretty cool. So thanks for the opportunity to do that.

Yeah. Talk about, like, so when you guys were starting, I mean, something Val and I thought about a lot, especially just having kids and jumping in on this and working full time, like, figuring out. Did you guys have any thoughts on, like, like, how do the. There's the work life, land balance.

Right.

And like figuring out where land fits and where you silo time and make sure that you're still spending time with kids and each other. Like, how did you guys think about that as you were jumping into this?

Yeah, I think I would say we've gotten better at it. John, to an example. To give an example. Friday is during the summer family fun day. We do not work on Fridays. We typically go we about an hour from Lake Michigan. So we typically go to Lake Michigan and just spend the day. We got all the hot, hot spots, the ice cream spots, smoothie spots. We know them all. We go spend the day together as a family. And usually when the kids are off doing their thing, digging in the sand, splashing around, she and I just get to talk and decompress about the week and what's coming. So that's one example. We've also put in place designated times to have someone come and watch the kids and. And take them to what they need to do. Almost a nanny type thing.

Summer is a different. Is a different thing too.

And that's fair. I'm talking summer. We're in the midst of summer right now, but we have that designated time to devote to the respective business. So it's time on task, it's focused work, and then when that time is over, we get to shift that focus to our kids and make sure that they know we're there for them.

But when we were first starting, it was tough. I mean, Rowan was still. I mean, he was three. He was home with me. So I tried to work, you know, while he napped. I remember being, like, having a lot of anxiety around, like, taking a call when they were awake in case, like, someone started screaming. Screaming or hitting each other or, you know. But honestly, I started just taking the calls. And I feel like on both, like, the acquisition side and the sales side, it made me human to the people that I was talking to. So, you know, if I had to, you know, I'm so sorry. My kids are getting after each other. You know, most of the time it just softened them towards me. Sometimes I had to, you know, say, can I call you right back? But yeah, I think in general, I don't know that I can think of a time where it hurts me other than me feeling a little mom guilt, like, should I be working right now? Or, you know, spending time with my kids. So that's definitely, definitely a struggle and putting in boundaries, letting the kids know, like, this is mommy's work time. I'm working, you know, for the next two hours and then devoting my attention to them. I think that's very important. Setting up those boundaries and having a rest day, like Dave mentioned, where you're just taking time off. So.

I think it's awesome that your kids expect you both to be there. It just shows how much more time you're with them now and how much, like, just think of all the time you've gained back with them. And now it's just like, nor it's normal for them and that. But it's going to have such a huge impact down the road. I mean, I, you know, my kids were a little older when I got into this. John, you have very young kid. Mike, you and I are kind of similar, right? We had the old. We're the old guys on the call. So we had the older kids, but even still, you know, I think my youngest was. My youngest was seven. Right. Or eight. And my oldest was 17 or 18. And about three and a half years in, same thing, you know, scaled back on the work, didn't quit quit altogether, but scale back on the work. And that just opened opportunities to spend more time with the school age kids. So with my boys, I know in their more formative years in middle school and high school, that's where we really grew our relationship, which is pretty neat, right? And so I'd say we're very close. And Mike, I'm sure you can say the same thing that, that this business is. It helps. I mean, this business, it's. It gives us financial security, but it gives us family. Improved family relationships.

I thought you're gonna say that. I like that.

Yeah. Family security. You're too quiet, Zano.

Come on. Did I get the. You complete me. I thought you're gonna say family security and.

Oh, you want the site. You want the.

Yeah, yeah.

You want the. You. You're just feeling the need to. You need a little validation, right?

I failed the last podcast.

Yes, completely.

Card the love story. If you guys don't know.

Sorry, that's my dog. As you guys will maybe see, there's a. There is a mic setting to reduce background noise, but it does not reduce background noise very well. So sorry for the dog there, but.

I didn't hear your dog.

It does work.

Maybe it's gotten better then. Maybe it's gotten better. Awesome. So I don't know. Mike, do you have any questions for Dave and Jesse?

Kind of late, you know, nice to see both you guys. I wonder if. Did you already talk about, like, how you divide the business up? Like, you know what, maybe one you might be in charge of or how you divide duties or. Did you already do that?

Not yet.

Yeah, I'd love to know, is there certain aspects that you each individually love that maybe you feel more drawn to? Or like how. How do couples work together? People want to know, you know, that's a great topic.

Well, I think we've had different. Different seasons in the business. I think when we started out, well, I guess really a lot through it, you did more of like the back end type stuff and I did more of like the forward facing things, talking to people. You set up a lot of the systems and processes. You look like you're going to add something to that.

No, I was just thinking if one would look at my face and then look at Jessica's face, oh my goodness.

Forward facing.

And I am behind. So I say that, but I did, I set up a lot of the systems, the automations that was, that was my job to support the front facing aspect. And she did a lot of. On the onset and you know, we've hired a lot of this out and put so in place and things like that.

Right.

But getting the land, selling the land. When we first started out, that was. Jess and I did all the support, infrastructure building, for lack of a better term, in the background. So that's kind of how we started off dividing the business and just kind of fit pieces together and figured it out from there.

I love how you position this as a family business too. It's really. I've heard, you know, other people just talk about worrying about taking intake calls, sales calls, kids making noise, but also heard the same, they echoed the same, you know, feeling that it humanized them. And people were like, oh, you're a mom, I trust you. You know, So I think that's a really great message where people feel like, well, how am I going to find quiet time without my kids here? But you don't really need to. You can embrace that. You can be the mom but also make sales and talk to people. Because I always tell people it's not about buttoning the shirt up and being like a salesperson, it's about being real and presenting yourself as. And that's how you build trust and connection by being the real you that you are, whether it's with your kids at home or not.

Yeah, Mike always leaves his shirt unbuttoned.

Sorry, go ahead.

Chokes me.

Oh man.

I was just gonna say anytime I have a chance to humanize myself, I do. Even if it's just a, hey, I'm dropping off my daughter at dance, can I call you, you know, 20 minutes or, you know, I'm making dinner right now, I'm happy to talk to you. I don't have my computer in front of me right now though, any chance I get. I just feel like it always helps.

I think so because, you know, there's a lot of online, all kinds of stuff online. And people have natural doubts. Is this real? These people real? But when you, you know, they hear the kids in the background, they, they know that, oh, this is a family person, like it, it just connects, right? Trust. They think of their mothers, they think of their family and it builds trust very quickly.

For sure. Yeah. We throw our family pictures up there whenever we can. Offer zoom calls if they want.

You gotta tell Them to make more noise.

All right, kids, I'm going on a sales call. Make a lot of noise. Let's go. Fight with each other. Let's go.

They don't need encouragement.

Come on, let's go.

And it's usually on cue, right when we get on the phone. Yeah, they need something.

They're hungry.

I think that's true, Dave. I think that kids just know as soon as your attention waves, even like a percentage. Absolutely. Whoa. What just happened.

Yesterday? I was on a call, and my youngest came in, and he had a cold cloth on his face and. What are you doing? I'm putting tattoos on my face.

Nice.

He's had a tattoo on his face for the last couple days, so.

Oh, man, that's awesome. I think along the same lines, guys, I. I think this. This is. We get. You know, we get. We get people all the time who are. Are nervous to. To move forward in this business and have those conversations with people. And I think just one little other thing I would say is just, you know, spend time on these calls, you know, telling these people who you are, right? It's all about conversations like, if you want to buy land, this is for everybody on the call who's, like, contemplating this business. If you. If you want to buy land, you know, we've all bought a ton of land just getting on the phone and talking to people, right? Mike Zano is the best at it. Just get on the call. People have their guard up a little bit when they're for. When you first talk to them, and they're like, who the heck is this guy? And then, you know, after 30 seconds of talking to Mike, he's like your best friend already. And then you never know what's going to happen in a conversation where the guy becomes your best friend in 30 seconds, right? Like, you're buying a property right then and there from this guy because, you know, like. And trust him, But. But it is really about just kind of living. Live in the moment with these people, ask them questions, get to know them, tell them a little bit about yourself. I mean, I can't tell you how many conversations I had with people when I first started doing this about hip replacements and knee replacements and all that type of thing. One of my best land deals ever. I bought 60 acres my first year in the land business. That was. It was. It was life changing. She was. She was on the verge of having hip replacement, and we talked about it on the phone multiple times, right? So, you know, you get to know these people, they get to know like, and trust you. You get to know like and trust them. And amazing things can happen on the buy side and on the sell side. Right. It's just. It's a matter of just helping people out with a problem.

I don't think we can say it enough, Scott, that a lot of people, when they come to this business, they get really anxious about the calls talking to people. And we can't say enough that you just have to be yourself. It's just like, you know, you don't have to be like polished, you don't have perfect. You just have to be real. And even if you were like brand new doing this, it's like, hey, just so you know, this is my first time actually selling a property and I'm. But I'm gonna be really transparent. I'm gonna probably over communicate and I really love if you would like, maybe even be a referral for me later on after you like really feel like I've helped you. And you know, just being honest, you don't have to be like, oh, I've done this a million times. Right. Because that's in disingenuous. Right. But if you're real, people will feel that and just be who you are.

Tell them as you are. Mike. Daniel.

The song is that I just put an order in for Limoncello. Hopefully it comes soon.

We try and share the fact that I'm gonna go out and mow the lawn after the phone call. Yeah, Again, it's just we're normal people, so if someone is listening, we're just Jess and Dave. We really. All we did is we worked really hard at it. That's what we did.

Yeah.

Not geniuses. We just worked really, really hard at it. And it is not easy and it provides you. We kind of talked about the beginning provides you the freedom that we. That we discussed. The other. The other thought I want to add in here, I have to smile at Jess. She often becomes the therapist for a.

Lot of the people we taught oh lan therapy.

Well, she just listens. And to Mike's point, when people feel comfortable with you, she gets into conversations about who knows what. And oftentimes it's, hey, I gotta go do this. We accomplished what we needed to in the first five minutes and then we just spent 15. So it's not the most productive. But what it does is it establishes that relationship. And I can't tell you how many of those people have bought multiple properties from.

I think it is productive. I think that people love to talk. They love to talk about themselves, their Interests. And if you give them a. Let's face it, not everybody has someone who has a. Yeah, it's gonna listen to them. Right. But if you listen to them, it builds trust as well. Right? It can, really. So just being just real and human and, you know, that could build so much trust. Like you said, Dave, they'll come back and they'll buy again again. You guys ever had anybody that actually was interested in how you do what you do? Like, they buy from you, but also then they're like, well, how can I do it?

You.

Does that ever happen?

Oh, yeah, certainly.

Yeah, it has happened a few times.

We just met with a guy at Starbucks that.

Oh, that's true.

I mean, I think it happens more than we do. Yeah, we remember.

He wasn't. Yeah. He wasn't someone who reached out to purchase a property.

He just wondered why the two of you are available in the middle of the day at Starbucks.

He knew that we knew Mike Zaino, and he said, if you know Mike Zaino. But yeah, people just. Yeah, they're. It's intriguing. It's fun. It's really cool to be able to buy and sell land and say that that's your job. It's really.

Yeah. Connections. Right. You know, and I think, you know, what you're saying about Jess is true. We talk, we joke about land therapy, but there are many people out there that own property that don't want anymore. They may have bought it, but they'll let it go at a steep discount. Or somebody will just listen to them. It's like they're releasing the property. Right. And they're. They're telling you the story behind it, and they just want to express it. They want someone to listen. And then when they're done, they're ready, they just buy it at a discount and make some money on it. So. And they're happy. They're very happy with it.

I'll. I'll add a quick story about that. We bought 150 some properties. 120. I try. I'm not trying to embellish.

I actually have an artwork.

120 from the same lady. But the reason I brought it up, she and her husband had purchased all of them together. And she was a little cranky at.

First, but little is being nice.

So now, yeah, I'm trying to under embellish now. She was very cranky. But as Jess got to know her and established that relationship, to your point, Mike, it was almost the telling of her husband's story and what they did together. And it Was almost cathartic. And then at that point, she was able to sell them.

And it.

We, I believe, did it at a price point that made everybody happy. Yeah. We had to get there. But it was because Jeff listened and established that relationship.

Yes. There's like a shift there, isn't there? Probably Jess, in the conversation where all of a sudden it just clicks.

Yeah.

You can tell them their tone of voice. Yeah. It just. Yeah. Completely changes.

They know you're real. I mean, you know, you're being very real and you are solving a problem for her. Right. At this point, you know, like you said, you know, life has moved on and.

Yep. Yeah. Her husband had passed away and she just was stuck with them. So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mike, do you remember that story about Dr. Bob. Dr. Bob Demick. And he was buying a property. This was way back when. Probably your first boot camp. Probably my first boot camp, or you went before me. But. But he was buying a property from four sisters. They were all, like, joint tenants. And, like, two of the sisters got along, but the other two, none of the sisters got along. Like, there was this huge family feud. And Bob took it upon himself to have a conversation with each sister. He's like, you know, it really helps get all on a call together. And, like, he actually did bring these sisters back together after years of them not communicating. And he got thank you letters from them thanking him. He was like the catalyst. He was the catalyst in their. In repairing their relationship.

That's the ultimate.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yes, of course. Specifically. But I remember him.

Yeah. I'm sure John's bringing people together all the time. I mean, just with his.

John looks like a connector every day.

Yeah, it's great. I mean, well, it is. It is. Like, I think what you guys are talking about is really true. Like, it is just about problem solving. Like, if you can identify somebody's problem and then come up with a solution that. That works for them and works for you. And we're pretty upfront with people, Right. And like, you know, we don't do the super hard sale or anything like that, but when you get that press, like, it really clicks. Right.

Mark, you always say to me, new problem, good problem. A new problem is meeting somebody that has this problem. Right. That's a new problem. But it's a good problem because you're going to help them solve. Oh, Lemon Cello, thank you.

Thank you, Zara.

Thank you, Laura.

Well, we. We do have a few questions for Dave and Jess from the audience. We haven't really interacted with the audience very much. So we should probably bring them in a little bit. So. All right, here's the first one. Here's the first one from Daniel Bryan. So he. I think at the. At the heart of this question is like, what kept you guys going? So was it the success stories or what else was it? And I think he's alluding to the fact that maybe he's feeling a little frustrated because he's early on in the process and maybe his mailers aren't hitting. So what would you guys say to Daniel?

Well, bailer's not hidden. Is. Is. Is a good thing. It's hard to see it. And I hated that response when I first started. Hated it. My other. My other lease day response is, well, it depends. And that always seems to be the case in this business as well. It depends. But my encouragement is as you continue to get experience, that mailer is a data point at which you can learn. So whether it's the area, whether it's your price point, whether it's who you're mailing to, I would sit down and take some time and analyze what you did, why you did it and how you did it, and then take that and improve upon it or shift it somehow, some way to do something a little bit different. And as you continue to do that, you're gonna start hitting. It just. It took some repetition and some belief, some faith on our part. Two hours, three hours every night, continue plodding through, looking forward to that freedom dream to get us through that. But as you do it, it will work. It will happen.

I think perseverance is what sets apart the people who are successful in this business and the people who. Who aren't, who give up, who we have all. Anybody who's successful in this business has had dips, has had hard times where they feel like, is this gonna work for me? Questioning, doubting. But it's the people who problem solve, like Dave said, take action, persevere. That's what. That's the difference. That's the only difference.

Yeah.

Yeah. We're just.

We're just.

We are not special. We just worked really hard at it and stuck to it.

Yeah.

So thinking about, like, just you talked about how the moment that things clicked and you guys really pushed forward, you guys hadn't had any sales yet. So how did you guys persist then and still have such optimism about it? Because it is like sometimes that's an inflection point where you can choose to let everything go or you can keep forward, and that's the point where things click. So what what made that happen for you both?

Well, I'm going to add some context to that, John. We signed up for coaching having not made the sale. That was a huge financial commitment. And I say that we haven't discussed the many sleepless nights in making those decisions. There was. We're pretty strong in our faith. There was a lot of prayer that went into it. There was a lot of discussing as a team, is this what we want to do? What's best case scenario, what's worst case scenario? Is it worth it? And then once we made those decisions, we. We worked really hard, full steam ahead on them. So, yeah, it. There's. There is that aspect of it, but yeah, I'm cut you off.

Yeah, it's okay. Can you repeat your question one more time?

Sorry.

You were asking how did we get through the dips or how did we persevere.

Persevere at that point? So, like, when you guys were. At that point, you guys hadn't made any sales and then you doubled down, right? And so, like, talk about that point of persistence and not giving up and what made you guys keep going. Dance.

Yeah. So. Well, one thing, once we decided to start coaching, like the day we signed up, we had our very first sale. So we kind of took that as confirmation and we held onto that because the first few months of coaching, you know, you got like this adrenaline and excitement going in and you're like, okay, things are going to start rolling now. And that doesn't always happen. Sometimes it happens, but sometimes it doesn't. So, I mean, there were some times where we fell into that comparison trap and we were, you know, looking at other people and going, like, how are they getting these sales? I feel like we're doing the same thing that they're doing and. Or why aren't we getting this response from this. These mailers, you know? So I. I'm very thankful for the community, for our coach we had. Tate was our coach and the other people that were going through coaching and then, you know, going to like the virtual boot camps and listening to grill the geeks, I don't know, just staying connected with community for me was very big and just remembering we just have to keep persevering. But if it had not have been for that community and Tate just kind of being like, you guys are doing the right things. You need to keep doing it. Like, hold up your big girl panties and just keep going. I don't think if it wasn't for the coaching, I don't know, I don't think we would Be where we are today, 100%.

I don't know.

So, yeah, it was tough, but just keep taking action.

Very helpful.

It's a leap of faith. It's a leap of faith, and it's. And it is a risk. Right. And, you know, Mike and John, we talk about this all the time to become an entrepreneur. Right? What's the definition of an entrepreneur? Somebody who takes a risk with their money and their time to grow something new, to grow a new business. And we've all done that. And it's scary. I mean, I was so scared on my first coaching call with Scott Todd, he stopped the call and said, scott, what's wrong? He literally did that, biting my nails. What's wrong? I told him. He's like, just take a deep breath. Everything's gonna be okay.

That's awesome.

I like that.

Just do what we tell you to do, and everything's gonna be fine. And he was right. Like, I just showed up like you guys did. I'm not special. I'm not a business guy. I'm a healthcare guy. I just showed up and I did what he told me to do, and I did 30 deals my first year. Right. And it's. But. It's a But. It's a. And it's a marathon, not a sprint. This stuff doesn't happen overnight. But when you start something like this and then persevere and you show up every day and then you get to that year one point and you can look back and see how far you've come in that year, it's pretty phenomenal, the personal growth and development that occurs, I think when you do something like this.

Do you guys feel like it's funny? Valerie and I, we were on Mark's podcast, like, back in, like, 2018, like, a long time ago. And it's funny, looking back on that, I feel like I can hardly recognize myself because I just feel like I've grown so much across this entire journey. Do you guys have anything like that? Do you guys feel like different people on this side of land investing, or do you feel like it's just kind of been the same?

I know I do. I have so much more confidence than I did going in. I would have never. Yeah, I just would have never, ever thought that I could, like, have a hand, a help in building a business, and one that leaves a legacy for our children. It just is. It's. Yeah. One of the. One of the coolest things I've ever done. So I think, for sure, my confidence has grown.

Well, I. It's Just this point, I would add our kids, I mean, they see what we do, but our oldest is 11. She's already talking about her getting her white Jeep Wrangler, which is great, but she's gonna buy and sell some land to earn some money to do that. So this is, this is meant to be a legacy business because land is forever. I mean, it's not going to go away skill to our kids and have the system set up to do it efficiently. It's going to be something that will help our family for a long time. And then this is kind of off topic. Then run everything through our IBC policies and that thing is going to be. We're going to be in, in our family forever. So, yeah, to John's point, we have certainly met people, we've learned things. Just making those connections opens doors that we never would have thought possible. So I have a very good friend and business partner now out of Minnesota, and our family spend time together. We, we just went on a fishing trip to Canada, but we met him at a land geek conference. And just getting out and meeting people and making those connections has changed us for the better because a lot of people have great things to offer. And if you open yourself up to that risk and to that opportunity, good things will follow. It just has happened and will continue to happen as we do it moving forward too. That's very nice. Yeah.

That's awesome.

That's awesome. Thank you, guys. Daniel Bryan says, Justin, Dave, you're living his dream. Kids are about the same age and have lost a lot of his time to the military. Parental presence is huge. So you can hear a lot about Daniel, why there in that statement, which is, which is pretty awesome.

That why is a big thing. Gotta keep. Keep thinking about that. Why exactly? Motivation.

Ken Green. Mike, Ken Green's here, man.

He's like, that is my karate brother. I love Ken Green. He's been around forever. He's probably, I don't know. Ken, are you overseas right now? You typically over in Italy, you just practicing karate around the world. I'm very jealous of you, Ken. Love you, brother.

And you're doing land deals. Tell us, tell us. Here's a great question. Great practical question, guys. Okay, so we've talked a lot about the results of this whole thing, right? You guys have gained time, freedom, your family relationships are stronger and better and you're better parents and your kids are going to be better because of it. But what if somebody's just. What if somebody just found this and they're like, how do I even Begin. Right. So this is from Brooklyn. What's the best way to begin? She's been doing her research but is nervous. How do I start putting it all together? Any, any simple practical steps you could give Brooklyn since she just found out about this whole land investing thing?

Sure.

Well, I'll tell you what we did, Brooklyn, I mean just straight up, we, we were very, very pessimistic. This work, Scott Boston, he seemed like a shady dude. He was the first person we talked to.

I had a lot of phone calls with you guys. You did, you did.

Thanks for being patient with us.

But I say that Brooklyn, because what we did is we started in one of the cheapest places you can start, New Mexico. And we wanted proof of concept. But what we did is we, we were okay with making mistakes and we worked really hard at it in the cheapest place possible. That's how we started. And as those deals went, you know, a hundred dollars a year, thousand dollars a year, the opportunities came in and we just found ourselves buying and selling more and more land. And it was, oh, we gotta set some, some systems up here so we're not doing everything on our own every time. And that's slowly how we began to scale our business. So there's no one, I would say right way. There are certainly guidelines and things that, you know, you want to kind of do in order. But we just started in the cheapest place possible and we were okay with making mistakes. So I don't know if you want to add anything to that.

I mean, I just think community and having people that have gone before you is such a huge thing. So I'm not sure if you're trying to start this on your own or if you've got the toolkit. Is it called the toolkit anymore? I don't know, Flight school, coaching. We were okay with making mistakes, but we weren't so okay with making mistakes that we were brave enough to just go at it on our own. I like having some sort of, of guideline of where, you know, where I should go next. And I think that was, that was huge for us. And I think it's important when you're starting out so you're not blindly. Right, you know, blindly just stepping out.

I love the fact of what you guys are saying here because I often tell people you can build momentum on small deals, maybe a $500 deal or a $5,000 deal, you're going to go through the same process, the same step. I always equate it to like a football player, although I don't know anything about sports, as we all know, but I can imagine a football player in a small town, they push him too quickly into a bigger arena, and he could fail. But if he was kind of trained and, you know, and brought along properly, he could really shine later on. So you can build momentum on these small deals just like that football player, and learn. Make the mistakes where it's. It's gonna hurt, but it's not gonna destroy you. Right. A 500 property is not gonna kill you, but you're gonna learn a lot from that. And so I just think that's a great answer, that you could start small. And I always say, you know, perfect it in the micro and then blow it up in the macro.

That's a zenoism right there, man.

Blow it up in the macro.

That was a good mic drop. That was a mic drop for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think what I would say to Brooklyn is it's hard to know where you're at. Like, are you on the verge of doing land deals or are you just, like, gathering information? And what I love about this community is, you know, Mark's been podcasting a really long time. There's so much you can just learn on your own. And, you know, I think of it so typical physical therapist Brooklyn. Right? I think of things on a scale from 0 to 10. Okay, so if. Let's say if I were to ask you today, like, on a scale from 0 to 10, where do you feel you're at with this whole thing? Like, where 10 is, you know you're going to do it. Zero, as you know you're not going to do it. Where are you on that list? Where are you on that scale? If you're at, like, a 5? Gather more information. Learn more. Read Mark's book. He's got two books. Listen to some podcasts. Listen to podcasts like this, where we feature successful clients, and if you're feeling yourself come up on that scale and you're like, at 8 or 9 or 10, I know I want to do this. Then schedule a call and we'll talk to you about it. And there's, like, no pressure. It's just we'll help you develop a plan to get started, whether you have $1,000 or $50,000 to get started. And, Mike, you can start this with $1,000.

Yes, right. Yeah, absolutely.

So, funny story. We just purchased property, and I was looking through the. The deeds that we got, you know, to check our chain of title, and we just purchased a property that you had purchased, and then you Must sold it wholesale to Mark, and. And then they sold it, and now we just purchased it from those people. And I think we've even sold it already. I'd have to double check, but I was like, that's so cool. We're just like, that's awesome.

I've.

I've purchased a property once. I think it was three times. So I bought it from somebody, I sold it to somebody else. I bought it back from that person, I sold it wholesale to another investor, I bought the note tip from that investor, and then they defaulted, and then I sold it again. I think was. I think that's. I don't know how many times that was.

Hopefully your marketing for that property was dialed in at that point.

Yeah, it was great.

That's awesome. Mike. Ken Green is living in Colorado, but in Europe seven months out of the year and doing land deals from Italy. That's not a bad life.

I want to see you at Dirt Rich in November. Are we talking about that the first week of November out in Austin, Ken?

Let's see. John, can you. Can you find the dates on that while I'm putzing around over here?

I love the question thing.

Banners, Q and A, all sorts of vantage points. Yeah, it's. We've upped our game around here. That's what 20,000 viewers does for you. New fancy tools. So the Dirt Ridge summit is. John, the dates.

It's coming. It's coming. Stall, stall. Okay, wait.

No, I've got it.

Isn't it? I know it's the beginning of November, but I don't.

It's first weekend in November.

The 1st and the 6th, isn't it?

November 6th through 8th.

Oh, 6 through the 8th. 2025 in Austin, Texas.

So Ken Green. Be there. We're hanging out.

We're hanging out. Dirt Rich Summit. Justin, Dave, you guys going?

Possibly.

We're gonna try to be there. Yeah. Only a. Scott, Bob, I'm gonna be there.

Okay.

We're gonna be there, right, Zano? John.

We'll be there. We were Nightcap live there, aren't we?

Oh, I don't know.

We're always live on Nightcap. We're gonna do Nightcap there.

That'd be fun. That would be fun. Well, we've come up on an hour, and this was an awesome. Guys, it was awesome to hear your story. Awesome to see you both again and just. It's amazing to hear that you're doing so well and you've come so far. Because really, it's only been, what, four years?

I mean, it hasn't even quite hit four years yet. We're getting technical. December. It will.

I mean, yeah, it'll be four years in December. Look how far you guys have come and how much you've learned and how many land deals you've done. And it's just. I don't know. I may weep. It's motivating. It's very motivating. It's very cool to see.

November 17th will be two years out of my W2.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah. That's amazing.

So it's. It's possible. Gotta work hard at it.

Gotta work hard. Exactly. So awesome. Ken, how do you get tickets? Go to thelandgeek.com Dirtrich Summit maybe. Or I bet if you just use that powerful search engine Google, just type in Dirt Rich Summit, you'll find the checkout link for that and. Awesome. Well, thank you guys very much for coming next week. Oh, should. Should we tell them what's coming next week so we can let the viewers know ahead of time?

I want to know.

Oh, yeah.

All right.

I want to know, too. Tell me.

Little preview.

Yeah, we need to know.

Let's tell you. Okay, so you guys can prepare. You guys can prepare for the week. Nightcap episodes. We even have an episode sheet and, like, topics that are assigned and stuff. Yeah, I know. It's craziness. Let's see. Next week is July 22nd. Five land investing habits that successful investors practice that beginners do not practice. So Zeno, let you think about that for the week. Come with an action plan.

I just felt like I was on Jeopardy the way you said that.

You gotta come up with three.

Think about that final, final answer.

Well, we'll show up next week and we'll see what. See what happens with the bourbon or soda or whatever next week. Limoncello, I guess. Thanks, everybody for coming. Have a good night and reach out with any questions. Thelandgeek. Com. Thanks, guys.

Thanks, guys, for being here.