How Betting Can Lead To Your Breakthrough Idea

Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the land geek with your favorite niche real estate website, www.thelandgeek.com. and I'm really excited for today's guest. But before we talk to our guest, I would be remiss if I did not properly introduce my co host. You know him, you love him. Six Sigma Scott Todd from scott todd.net landmodo.com and most importantly, not automating your Craigslist postings. Posting domination.com thelandgeek Scott Todd. How are you? Mark?

I am awesome. How are you?

I'm really excited to talk to our guest.

You know, like, we always talk about, like, big deals, right? But this kind of one is a big deal.

No, she's huge. She's really big. Like, it's. I'm gonna put on my anchorman voice. I don't do this for everybody, but let's talk to our guest, Dori Clark from doryclark.com if you don't know who Dori is. And I'm putting on my anchorman voice. Dorie Clark is an adjunct professor of business administration at Duke University's Fuqua School of Business and the author of Reinventing youg and Stand out, which was named the number one leadership book of 2015 by by Inc. Magazine. One of the top 10 business books of the year by Forbes. It was a Washington Post bestseller. A former presidential campaign spokeswoman, the New York Times described her as an expert at self reinvention and helping others make changes in their lives. She is a frequent contributor to a little rag called the Harvard Business Review, another little rag called Time. An entrepreneur recognized as a branding expert by the Associated Press. Ann Fortune Clark is a Clark. Ms. Clark Dory is a marketing strategy consultant and speaker for clients, including little companies that you probably never heard of, like Google, Microsoft, Yale University, Fidelity, the US State Department, and the World Bank. Dori Clark, finally you've made it on a prestigious podcast.

Congratulations, Mark and Scott. Thank you. I'm so glad to be talking with you fellas.

So, Doria, I always ask, like, we have other, like, experts on the podcast. I always ask them, like, how does you know XYZ become xyz, right? And so you actually kind of become the master at answering that question, if you will. Right? Like, this is how you become a leadership or thought leader in your field. Because I don't think they even know how they become these experts. Right. So my question to you is, how does Dori Clark become Dori Clark? Like the Dory Clark on like, you know, TED Talk. Dori Clark.

Like all good stories, Mark, it starts with abject failure. I started out after graduate school trying to be a journalist, and it turned out I picked the worst time to become a journalist. It was 2000, which was. Which was itself. 2000 was a great year for journalism. They were having record profits. The money was just sloshing in, and then all of a sudden, we can now see retrospectively that it was the beginning of the end and you were talking a moment ago, but automating posts on Craigslist and things like that, Craigslist basically kind of killed journalism and classified advertising. And so in 2001, just a year later, I got laid off from my job, and I couldn't get another as a journalist. And it led me on this series of reinventing myself. And so I ended up having a lot of good adventures along the way, from running a nonprofit to being a presidential campaign spokesperson, to making a documentary film. But what I learned in the course of doing all that was what fueled my first book, Reinventing youg. A decade ago. I started what I do now, which is having a marketing strategy consulting business. And basically, basically, I embarked upon a quest to write books about all of the things that I wanted to learn. And so my most recent book Stand out, which you were alluding to, was a book about how the top thought leaders in the world got that way, and what were the common denominators and the common principles that they followed so that regular professionals could work strategically to emulate that path.

So how do they become thought leaders?

The big question, Well, I will give you a kind of macro view, and then we can dive into anything that you guys want. But fundamentally, I break the book standout into two sections. Finding your breakthrough idea and becoming known for it. Basically, it is those two pieces, right? If you're going to be a recognized expert in your field, there is going to be some kind of idea that you are known for or associated with. And so there's a series of processes that people can use to really hone in on that. I think that one of the most common myths that people have, which holds a lot of professionals back, is they assume that before they even start their quest, they have to have it all figured out. They have to know exactly what that idea is. But the truth is, what I discovered from interviewing all of these, you know, celebrated experts, is that almost always they started investigating an area because they liked it, they were interested in it, they were passionate about it, but they didn't know what their big idea was. It was Only through the process of doing it that it came to them. So I think that's the first piece. The second piece is building a following around your idea. And that is very much a three step process that just about everybody follows. I call it building your network, building your audience and building your community. And very briefly, what that means, building your network is surrounding yourself with the right people, having a kind of close in community. It could be a mastermind group, it could be your sort of team of mentors, but having the right people to advise you and help guide you in your field, that's the first step, building your network. Number two, building your audience is beginning to share your ideas more widely. For instance, on a podcast like this, blogging, giving speeches, etc. So people know how you think. And then third, and finally is building your community, which is where you start to have enough of an audience that you are able to bring people together around your ideas and shared values. That is how you become a recognized expert in your field.

I love it.

Scott, Todd, what are your thoughts?

I mean, Mark, this sounds like exactly the exact recipe that maybe you followed in becoming the Land Geek, right? And I wasn't there when you became the Land Geek per se, but here you are, you're just some individ individual person that's out there investing in land. And then you realize like, man, okay, it's time for me to try to help other people. I'm kind of bored where I am, you know, I want to help other people. And so, you know, you, it's not just like you slap the label and said, hey, I'm the Land Geek. I mean, you had to put yourself out there, you had to begin to start sharing ideas, which is, hey, this is how I do this business model. You got to go on podcasts and share and then you've created this community that, you know, the Landgate community, which is kind of a reflection of the cultures that you've built around your own business. So I mean, I know the book probably wasn't there, but it sounds like, you know, that repeatable action is the way to do it. You know those three steps.

Yeah, I mean, think about how much better my life would have been when I started Land Geek if I had Dorie's book. Right?

Yeah, you just would have done it.

So Dorie, my big idea was solo economic dependency, right? If you're not working, you're not making any money. And here's a way out of that, right? With this land investing niche. And so that was kind of my big idea. And then I'm actually writing a book right now. And, you know, it's like this thought leadership book. And then now all of a sudden, like, I'm running out of, like, big thought leading ideas, and I need to, like, hire you to consult me, but because now it's starting to become like a How to. Wait, what happened? Right? Like, maybe I should just tell stories about Scott Todd, you know, figuring out how to get out of solo economic dependency and getting out of his fortune, you know, 300 job in 17 months and eight days, which I'm still. Three days.

Three days. Three days, Mark, come on, get out.

17 months, three days. Yeah. You know, I'm nervous because Dory's on the podcast, but.

Right. I got you.

I can't get my details straight. But so, Dori, for you personally, right, you're a thought leader. And what was your journey as you started going through this, where you're like, okay, these people became thought leaders. They followed this process. Now Dori Clark is going to just do the same.

Well, I think so. First of all, I appreciate. I appreciate you kindly calling me a thought leader. One of the things that I have written about and talked about for the Harvard Business Review is that concept, that phrase thought leader, because I think it gets misunderstood in our culture a lot. I actually did a whole HBR has their own podcast series, and I did an interview with them specifically about the topic. Is the phrase thought leader like a jerky phrase? Because a lot of people get like. And so I want to defend the phrase thought leader for a very particular reason, which is that if you actually break it down, I mean, yes, I think it's. It's silly sometimes when people, you know, apply it to themselves in this chest thumping, well, I'm a thought leader and blah, blah, blah, you know, and it becomes obnoxious. But I think aspiring to be a thought leader is actually a very worthy quest. And the reason is that if you break the phrase down, okay, the thought leader, the thought part means you are known for your ideas. That is the content of it. It's not just pure celebrity. It's not a shallow celebrity. You're known for your ideas. And a thought leader actually means inherently, if you're a leader, you have to have followers. Otherwise this is an inaccurate term. And to me, that is actually the threshold. That's the litmus test there. Because if you don't have any followers, it probably means that your idea may not be that good. But if you have actual real people out there who are listening and saying, yeah, this Makes sense. Then there's something to it. So aspiring toward that, to aspire toward being a thought leader, I think is pretty powerful. So for me, you know, my journey out of all of this, I actually started out, I had this marketing strategy consulting business. And as you guys know, you know, there's a million marketing strategy consultants. I mean, it's so hard to differentiate yourself. It just seemed like a world of competition. And I by disposition am a generalist rather than a specialist. And so a lot of people were advising me, like, oh, find a niche, you know, specialize in something. And it just felt like torture to me. You know, I didn't want to sort of artificially limit myself to something. I mean, it's not a bad idea to find a niche. That's actually good advice, but I just didn't want to do it. But so that helped me over time develop the approach that I used. And then I actually advocate for a lot of people now who find themselves in a similar position, which is using a so called little bets strategy. Little bets is a phrase that was popularized by an author named Peter Sims.

I love that book.

Yeah. Such a good book. And the basic idea is that instead of just like going big on one thing that you don't know it's going to work, try placing very small bets on a lot of different things and then see what gains traction. And follow the traction, follow the momentum. It's a much more scientific and less risky way of doing things. And so my personal version of this was I got into blogging and I started doing it a lot. And I would write about different topics and see what was most popular, see what people were responding to. And it turned out that the thing that really seemed to gain traction the most early on was my writing about professional reinvention. And because, you know, not a lot of people were talking about that at the time. And so Harvard Business Review, I did a post for them which was popular about that. They asked me, dorian, will you turn it into a magazine piece? So for the Harvard Business Review magazine. So it started out as a 700 word blog post, became a 2,500 word magazine piece. And at that point I started to get approached by literary agents who said, hey, have you thought about turning it into a book? And so then that became a 50,000 word book. My first one, Reinventing youg. So I. What I really did in terms of the path to thought leadership was try out a lot of different ideas and then move towards the light, essentially move toward where the momentum was demonstrated.

Yeah, but to Play devil's advocate, Dory, because I can imagine if I'm listening to this podcast, right, and you know, based on your bio, right. And Scott and I see this all the time, people want some type of credibility first before they start putting themselves out there. And you've got massive credibility. Like you've done something. Like you're, you're at your professor at one of the most prestigious universities in the world, right? So for you to go out and start sharing your ideas. Well, yeah, I'm gonna read Dori Clark. She's at Duke, right? Like that's some, some blogger in their basement in Omaha who's in, you know, in their shorts at 19 and has no research behind them. Right. What do you say to those people that want to reinvent themselves, they want to stand out, but don't really feel like they've got the Dori Clark credentials?

Yeah, I'm so glad you raised that mark. Because the truth is the vast majority of the credentials that I've assembled have been ones that I have worked hard to cobble together post facto. They were not in place before they came afterwards. And it's actually part of a very deliberate strategy. So when some people say, oh, but I couldn't do this, I didn't go to blah, blah, blah school, or I didn't work for Apple or whatever it is, that's fine, you don't need to. One of the things that I learned in the course of the research that I did for my book Standout, and I teach a course called recognized Expert about these principles is that fundamentally, when it comes to becoming a recognized expert in the marketplace, there are three things that you need to have three key components. The first one is content creation. That's because if people don't know what your ideas are, they, they don't know how good you are. Number two is social proof. That is your credibility. And I'll go into depth on that in a minute. And the third one is your network. And so, you know, really, I think what, what matters here when we talk about social proof is the reason that, that it is helpful. I mean, it is 100% true that you might not have any credentials at all, but be brilliant, wonderful, worth listening to. But because we live in such a busy and frenetic world, people are not going to take the time to listen to you if they do not feel that you've been somehow pre vetted. And so social proof is basically an accelerant that gives people a reason to say, oh, I guess I should check out what he's saying because he seems like a reasonably credible person. So what our mission is, and this is something that I teach my students, is that you want to try to drape yourself in social proof and find ways to add that. And there's lots of ways of doing it. One is that you work hard to try to start blogging for recognized publications. You could become a leader of a professional association in your. In your city or your region. You know, you can run for the board. Usually there's not a lot of competition for something like that. Those are great ways of doing. You can become involved in your alumni association. All of those are fantastic mechanisms. For me, specifically, you were mentioning my affiliation with Duke. So an important thing to note, I teach for the business school at Duke. My undergraduate degree is in philosophy. My graduate degree is in theology. I not only do not have an mba, I literally never took a business class ever, because I went to a liberal arts college that did not offer any business classes. So I have no academic knowledge of the subject that I teach at all. The way that I. That I broke into Duke was I decided that I wanted to do more executive ed teaching. And so I literally just reached out, in some cases cold to universities and in some cases because I had a warm lead, even though it was a tenuous one. My connection to Duke was that a former colleague of mine had gotten her MBA at Duke a decade prior, and she introduced me to the admissions officer, who was the person that she knew, clearly not the right person for me to talk to. That person then was nice enough to introduce me to the executive ed team. And it turned out that they needed. They needed what I had to offer. And by that time, I had marshaled enough other pieces of credibility. You know, my. My book hadn't even come out, but I had a book contract. I was blogging for some places, you know, things like that, that they looked at me and said, oh, this could work. You know, this person could be. Could be credible. But then, you know, you add the Duke credential onto it and it becomes even more credible and it becomes even easier the next time. So that's really the social proof strategy that I advocate in standout and in my recognized expert course and elsewhere, is that it's not something that some people have and some people don't. You really, you go out and you get it.

I love it. I love it. What do you think, Scott?

Well, I was thinking, you know, like Mark, I was thinking about someone who's listening to this podcast, and, you know, they may not. They might need to reinvent themselves.

Right.

You know, maybe they want to do something in real estate or, you know, and they want to, they want to have that credibility because with that credibility comes other privileges like access to capital or access to other stuff. And I'm thinking, you know, like what Dori said is, hey, go become, you know, go get involved with your alumni association or go get this. And you know, the technology that we have around us today makes it so easy even to get the credibility that you want. I mean, you could go and start your own meetup group and you know, start this meetup group up for other real estate investors. It doesn't have to be your niche, but start, start your own group. Start, start about this piece. Lead these people and just by the fact that you're in front of them, you will have more credibility than anything with that group. And then you can leverage that to grow your network and also your credibility.

Yeah, yeah. I think what's interesting about Dori is she's talking about becoming a thought leader and not a great self promoter. And Dory, can you explain the differences?

Yeah, absolutely. I think in some cases people conflate the terms, so it is important to distinguish them. I mean, self promotion, you know, on its face, I mean, it may be a neutral concept, but the connotations that have arisen are pretty negative ones. I mean, what we think of is a person that is just constantly talking about how great they are. And I am a fan of the opposite, which is that it's, you know, what you say about yourself is probably the least influential part. I mean, yes, you need to have a good, you know, elevator pitch or whatever about yourself. I mean, you need to be able to explain to people what you do. But if you think about the perception that you have of another human being, the words that they say about themselves is probably the tiniest piece of how you perceive them overall. What somebody's brand is, what their reputation is, it's not just what they say about themselves. It's, you know, who do they hang out with? It's, you know, what organizations are they affiliated with. It's how do they treat other people? It's how do they dress, it's what kind of content did they create, what comes up when you Google them. All of those things create somebody's reputation. And so being a thought leader implies that you are creating thought leadership material, that you are creating high quality content that you are sharing with other people something that others value. If self promotion is just having a megaphone and saying, look at me or Creating thought leadership is actually. It's much more subtle. It's saying, here's something I created. You might find it helpful. And that's a lot more powerful because people come to the conclusion themselves that you are an expert, rather than you having to say, oh, look, I'm an expert.

It totally makes sense. Okay, Dori, so you're planning a dinner party, and you can literally invite three of your favorite thought leaders. Whom would you invite, and what would be the first question you would ask them?

Ha ha. Nice. Well, there's so many cool people that would. That would be great to bring together. I think that if I were thinking about a mix of folks, I would say, if we're talking, let's pick a celebrity, I'll pick Taylor Swift. And I think that something that's impressive to me about her and something that I would ask her about is the fact that so many people who have gotten famous at a young age just blow up, you know, this sort of Lindsay Lohan phenomenon or Britney Spears or whomever. And Taylor Swift has just managed, it seems like, to keep such a level head and to create. To be a positive role model and to create a nice, sane circle around herself. And so I would like to ask about that, because I think that that holds lessons for all of us about how do you handle fame and money in the right ways? So I'll invite her to the party. I think another person that would be really fun would be Justin Trudeau, the prime minister of Canada. This is already going to be a very good dinner party. And I think that he is someone who is creating a kind of calmer counterpoint to some of the rancorous political machinations on both sides of the aisle that we are seeing in the US and so to hear a little bit more about his perspective and about how he is, you know, ruling over, so to speak, a diverse, pluralistic society successfully could be. Could be very helpful. And a third person, if I was thinking about a thought leader. You know, if we're talking about people from the world of business, I'll say maybe Sheryl Sandberg, who's been so effective at creating a movement around her ideas.

I mean, Dori, it's your party. You can invite whoever you want. It doesn't have to be a business person, like, who do you want to hang out with and have this party with and ask questions? So Sheryl's in the top three. You got Taylor, Sheryl Sandberg, and Justin Trudeau. I mean, this is a fun party.

Yeah, right?

I mean, can you invite Scott And I as well.

Oh, my gosh. Absolutely. Come on down, fellas.

Awesome.

I'm glad you got us in, Mark.

I'm glad you got us in. So it's the six of us, we're having this party and what's like, if you're gonna go around the table, like, okay, here's a topic for discussion. What's the question you're gonna ask the table?

Yeah, so I. So something that I would be interested in getting everybody's opinion about is I've become sort of obsessed, both morbidly and just because I think it's really interesting is robots and jobs. I think that it is interesting for me and I think important for all of us because it fundamentally gets at an issue that when we talk about reinvention, we talk about personal branding. This is at the core of it. I mean, you have to brand yourself because there is a lot of competition from other workers. You know, whether that's in the United States, whether that's, you know, people from abroad, from countries that are operating in a lower priced environment. You have to give people a reason to work with you if you are not going to always be the lowest priced option. And I think we take that times 10 or times 100 if we look at robots, because it's not like, oh, the robot will. You'll do it for $50 an hour and somebody in India will do it for $10 an hour. A robot will do it in perpetuity 24 hours a day for $0 an hour once you pay the upfront cost of the robot. And it, it really sort of begs the question, what are humans for? What is work for? What makes us valuable? What makes us unique? And so to have somebody who is running a government, somebody who is running a company, and somebody who is one of the most successful creative artists in modern times, having that discussion, I think could be really cool.

All right, well, here's my answer. It could just. Just because I have thought about this a lot and I really think it could be another renaissance, right. If you're like, if you think about like Medici, right. You had these, these, these people that were hiring these creatives, right. And I forget the term, but they're, you know, they're. What's the term, Scott? Like when you hire a creative, you're.

You're not like a patron.

A patron? Yeah, the patron arts, Right. You're a patron. Thank you, Dory. And I think this could be an opportunity because let's just imagine billions of people jobless. I mean, we're talking about billions of people. Right. And I don't know when this could be, but, you know, huge swaths of the economy. It could be a time where, you know, if billions and trillions of dollars are flowing, like we have these just big winners like Google and Apple and Microsoft and Tesla and, I don't know, let's. Whatever it is. Right.

Well.

And they're looking around like, well, there's going to be social unrest because no one has anything to do anymore because there's no jobs. Right. And as human beings, we kind of need stuff to do.

Right.

You need a project. They could become the patrons and just pay everyone 50,000, 100,000 a year just to create. All you have to do is create something.

Yeah. So you're a universal basic income guy.

I'm a universal basic income guy at that point. Right. When the robots sort of take over these jobs, I could see that being a solution. Scott, what do you think?

I like that idea. I think that. I do think that there's always going to be the need for people. I think it just goes back to transforming the jobs into something else. People will either get off the bus and check out. I mean, you see. I think today you see, like, large people, large amount of people that are not in the workforce. And, you know, it's by design. People. People don't either at this point don't want to be in the workforce or they don't need to be in the workforce. But then the people that remain go out and they reinvent themselves into something else. And we don't know what that is today. But just think about, like the horse and buggy. You know, the buggy went away and transformed into the car, the automobile. And so there was this revolution where all these people became, you know, started working in the car industry. And as all of these things change, I think that people will look around and they'll either exit by design, it's time for them to exit the workforce, or they will just go find something else to do because there's going to be. There's always going to be something where a person is needed. I mean, you know, Cafe X, for example. It's funny, I read a story about Cafe X yesterday, which is the robotic Starbucks, if you will.

Right.

And they've got Gordon, which is their barista, making drinks for half the time, in half the time and for like half the cost. Right. So, I mean, I think that that seriously could pose a serious risk to tens of thousands of employees of Starbucks. However, they're still going to need people to Manage that stuff and maybe in less number of people, but then that will free up those people to go do other things, either within the Starbucks organization, if that's where they execute this, or elsewhere.

Doria, what do you think is going to happen? I like that answer, Scott.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that you guys are making a lot of sense. I mean, I live in New York and there is a chain of restaurants that just came to New York from San Francisco and they are, it's called Eatsa and it is essentially an automated healthy fast food restaurant where the orders are created by robots in the back. And so there's a little bit of staffing, there's a few people to kind of help you understand how to do your order on the iPad. But the staffing is just dramatically slashed from even what it would take to run a normal fast food franchise. And so, yeah, we're absolutely seeing those cuts. So I think that there is going to. I mean, I think that a lot of the populist votes that we're seeing now are emblematic of this in many ways. I mean, you know, think about something like the coal industry in West Virginia. And you know, people, people are saying, well, well hey, we want to keep doing coal. And, and you know, a lot of people are saying yeah, but coal probably isn't the best move anymore. And, and so you're just at a, at a loggerheads about it. And so I think that it's going to require both a lot of individual change in terms of development of new skills, a sort of permanent orientation of reinvention that that's not something you do once, it's something that you do in small doses repeatedly to keep yourself vibrant and able to participate successfully in the machinations of the job market and also politically and societally, we're gonna have to be willing to make some hard decisions.

I think reinventing you and stand out should be like required reading for seniors in high school because this is coming, right?

It's true.

I think it's important though, like, you know, Mark, I mean I came up within, you know, Fortune 300. I mean I spent, you know, 10 years in a Fortune 300 company and even before that was with smaller mid sized companies. And the fact is, is that literally you always have to be reinventing yourself because you know, if you're not and dory touched on this, there's going to be other competition, other competition from someone within the company or external to the company. And the company is always looking for the next superstar. They really are. Because if you're going to build. And I told my own team this, look, every, every year we want to field a Super bowl team. If I don't have a Super bowl team, it's my duty for the entire team to build that super bowl team. So just because you're on the team today doesn't mean that you, you have a permanent spot. You can't. Because I need the best, I need the brightest. And you know, if you're not reinventing yourself to the next, okay, I'm doing this today, but tomorrow I want to be doing this. Well, then you're going to find yourself a victim, if you will, of, you know, the automation or the outsource or some of the thing. And then you're going to find yourself as a victim. Like what happened. My job that I loved, I did this for 20, 30 years is gone. What do I do now? And you know, it's somebody else's fault as opposed to I'm not looking forward to my next step.

Exactly. Exactly. Well, I definitely want to. Before we end the podcast, I definitely want to just let everyone know that today's podcast is sponsored by postingdomination.com thelandgeek let's ask Dori for her tip of the week. Dori, what's your tip of the week? A website, a resource, a book, something actionable where the art of passive income listeners can go right now, improve their businesses, improve their lives. What do you got?

Well, actually I even have a prop, Mark. This is my special advanced copy. This will be available very soon, but I'm reading right now a book by some friends of mine called the Net and the Butterfly. And this is by Judah Pollock and Olivia Fox Cabana. And it is a book about how to train yourself to have more breakthrough ideas. And so my book standout was about how to get known for your breakthrough idea. And this is a book about how to have more breakthroughs. So I think it complements each other pretty well and it's been very interesting reading.

Alright, well great. I'll put a link to that book for sure. I'm sure it'll be on Amazon. Scott Todd, what's your tip of the week?

Mark, this is something I teach in posting domination. But sometimes we want to have our own custom domain for email and we want it just to go to Gmail. How do you do that? How do you create your own domain somewhere like your company or@your company.com and it just shows up in your Gmail? Well, check out Newage email. It's N U A G E Email and this thing, you can basically say, hey, I want this email address to go over right to Gmail and it forwards everything right over there. So you have that central hub of, you know, all your email in Gmail.

Yeah, but isn't there, like, you know, professional. I forgot with like Gmail for business. Don't they do that? But this.

Well, if you can, you know, that's one things I teach, you know, for $5 a month, you can get your own. You can use G. The G suite is what it's called, you know, the Google apps to do that. So that's $5 a month. This one is free after you register the domain.

Wow, that's pretty cool. I'll say five bucks a month. All right, my tip of the week is, look, start reinventing yourself. Start learning how to stand out. Go to dori clark.com d o r I e clark.com and learn more. Opt in. She's got some amazing resources in here. Dori Clark, are we good?

We are so good. And I'll actually just mention, Mark to your point, one of the things that folks can download for free if they want@doryclark.com is I have a 42 page self assessment workbook that I created that helps people develop that breakthrough idea and get known for it. So if you want to be walked step by step through how to do that, you can get it@doryclark.com.

Yeah, I already downloaded it. So I have to stay one step ahead of Scott Todd. Just if you see Scott Todd on that list, just unsubscribe him. Anyways, Scott's like, that's just so rude.

That's wrong.

It's just. It's a big bowl of wrong is what it is. All right. I want to thank all the listeners. I want to remind them, look, if you don't do these things, we're never gonna get the quality of guests like a Dory Clark to come on the podcast. You got to subscribe, you got a rate, and you got to review the podcast. Send us a screenshot of your review to supporthelandgeek.com we're gonna send you for free the $97 passive income launch kit. I want to thank Dory Clark again, Scott Todd, and let. Let freedom ring.

Let freedom ring, Mark.

Thanks, Dorie.

Thanks, guys.