How Do You Make A Marketing Pitch Stand Out From The Crowd? What You Need To Know

Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the land geek with your favorite niche real estate website, www.thelandgeek.com. and we've got some big news. Toolkit's gone. It's all about land Investing flight club. If you want more details about land investing flight club, email supportlandgeek.com Scott, Todd, are you excited about land Investing flight Club?

Mark, I think that land investing flights flight class was it Flight simulator, Flight club. Flight club. This thing is gonna turn like typical information marketing upside down because, you know, typical information marketing is here. You know, good luck to you and hope you do well. In fact, I was on ebay just before we started recording this, and I was looking up a course, like just googling this, you know, like searching for this name. I found a course online. Not yours, by the way, but another one. I found a course online. It's half the price. Everything is still sealed. They never even opened it. So it just shows, like, you know, people buy stuff with the best of intention and unless they're forced to take action and learn it, it just ends up on ebay.

No, there's no longer a knowledge gap, it's an execution gap. And we're going to fill that in with land investing flight club. In case you don't know, my co host is. It's Scott Todd from Scott Todd.net landmoto.com and most importantly, if you're not automating your Craigslist ads, hosting Domination.com TheLandgeek and Scott and Todd, I have to tell you, today's guest is really, really gonna be great.

I'm excited. Before we even got started today, we were talking and I already laughing, having a good time. So I can't wait to see where this one goes.

Yeah, this one's gonna be great. So let's talk about Kevin Rogers from copychief.com 62nd saleshook.com and Kevin used to be a dead broke standup comedian until he discovered how a simple joke formula could be used as a powerful marketing hook and began teaching it to marketers. This is crazy. Kevin Rogers, how are you?

Good, man. Thanks for having me, guys. So I'm looking forward to this as well.

Okay, so Kevin, let's, let's pretend we're at the nightclub right now. How do you start? Like, like what was your routine? Clean even, like, this is pretty clean.

Oh, you mean like at the comedy club? No, it wasn't clean. No, I was, I was, you know, 18 years old when I started comedy.

So.

My thoughts were not far above my Waist at any given time.

That's what you knew?

That's what I knew. Although what's interesting is the comics that I still keep in contact with, that hasn't changed. They're all in their 40s now, 50s. That hasn't. So I don't know if it has anything to do with how old I was, but. Yeah, so, you know, I was a storyteller, and that's still what I enjoy. I love telling stories, and that's what I did on stage. You know, I would just kind of act out scenarios, introduce crazy characters, and it was a lot of fun, man.

So when. When did you make that leap or that transition where you said, you know what? I gotta make some money here? Yeah, enough with having fun at the club. And I've got something here, because marketing is all about telling stories. So how did that happen?

Well, I had no idea, you know, when I was a standup, all I knew for sure, I didn't have a lot of business sense back then. I didn't. I was just a kid feeling like I was committing the crime of the century by getting paid a few hundred bucks. I wasn't factoring in the time and money it would cost me to drive 400 miles to go tell 30 minutes of jokes. I was just going, hey, they're gonna pay me 400 bucks, you know, And I get free beer and attention from girls. It's the greatest thing ever. But then, you know, you start growing up and thinking, now this is getting lonely. You know, I was on the road for, like, seven years straight, and I didn't want to become an old, bitter comic with no options in life. And that's what I saw happening to a lot of really brilliant people. And I realized the show business has a lottery, right? So I gave myself till 30. I said, if. If I hit 30, if I'm. And, you know, I don't, Things aren't clicking because I didn't feel at all like I do now, like I could control my fate. Right? We know as entrepreneurs that we have a lot of control over how our worlds go, how our business goes. Back then I just thought, if the right people don't like me, this isn't going to happen. And so that's what happened, man. I got to, like, you know, climbing up on 30, and I tried a few different things. I was kind of over the stage thing and wanted to write more and went out to Hollywood and got very close to some staff writing gigs on sitcoms. And once. Once I saw the sauces being made in that world, it was very unappealing to me. And so I took a series of like, no resume jobs. You know, I was doing stuff like bartending and bell hopping. And finally, like a miracle, discovered this direct response copywriting thing. And man, you know, just like lightning struck for the second time in my life and I realized this is exactly what I'm supposed to be doing. And it actually wasn't until I was a couple years into it that I started to put together how much spending a decade as a stand up comic, you know, played into the strengths you would have as a copywriter. So now I teach about those parallels. But it took me a while. It wasn't like, hey, you know, I've, I've been doing the stand up thing and that'll lead perfectly into copywriting. I had no idea copywriting was a thing. I just happened to sort of stumble upon it and was like, oh, man, you know, eureka. This is it.

Scott Todd, you know, I think, I think that, you know, like, like you're saying like lightning hit twice for you and that's, that's awesome. But how, like, what, what is the, what is like that formula, like, you talked about the formula and writing. What is this formula?

The formula? Which one?

For like copywriting? Like, how do I, you know, I'm not a phenomenal copywriter by any means. It's not my skill set. I can write some things and I have found like a little formula that I use. But I'd love to learn a little bit more about your formula too.

I actually have a lot of formulas for different things, depending on what you want to accomplish. I do love formulas, which is ironic because as a comic, the last thing you'd ever want to be called is formulaic. You know, you want to be off the cuff and original and in the moment. But when I came, when I had to start writing for a living and getting stuff out, I realized I need some guardrails here. You know, you could sit. You know, it's an art and a science and it's a practice. And if you just stay in the art side of it too long, it's very hard to meet deadlines. So I have a lot of different formulas for depending on what you want to accomplish. Everything from like a full sales letter. I really love short formulas, you know, one minute, two minute video formulas. The thing I'm most passionate about is helping business owners tell their story in very clear and succinct ways that immediately help their best prospects identify themselves as their best prospects.

So one of the things That I try to do because most of, I think the people listening to this podcast most are interested in land, investing, selling land. That's where Mark and I spend our time is actually doing land deals. And you know, land is a pretty boring thing to sell. You know, like there's nothing sexy about land at all. It's dirt, right. Sometimes some tumbleweed and it's hard to like write just a boatload of material. And what I always try to do with my own ads is not necessarily reveal the whole thing in like a sales letter where I'm trying to sell it on Craigslist or the marketing. And you know, I always even talk about or joke about like it's. That's like the first day, you know, like you're. That marketing piece is not meant to sell everything. It's meant to be, you know, a mystery and to get someone to raise their hand.

That's a really good point. Yeah.

Is that something that you see like a lot of people doing is they.

Try to like, yes, Todd, you landed on the number one conversion killer that I talk about. You know, people always ask me about headlines. I know headlines are important. What makes a good headline? A lot of things make a good headline. There's a lot of great formulas for headlines as well. The first thing that makes a terrible headline is trying to close the deal in the headline. Right. Or very early in the copy or sometimes, like you said, even on the page at all anymore. It's a stepped awareness to bring people into our world. The dynamic has changed a lot. It used to be you could write a, you know, 20 page sales letter and lay out your entire sales argument and do really well. You can still do that in some markets. Finance is one where people will really sit and read a ton of material. They really want to be on the cutting edge anymore. You know, people come to your opportunity for the most part on a mobile device. Right. So you have to factor that in right there. What are you going to, you're not going to sit and read a long scrolling sales letter on your mobile device. You're probably also not going to watch a 20, 30, 40 minute video sales letter. So you need to engage people in short increments that come with some more like a radio commercial. What really lends, you know, gets their attention and gets them to say, this is something I need and gets them to take the next action and engage deeper with you. Right. You can't just close the deal in one, one shot anymore.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, speaking of radio commercials, before the podcast, you guys are talking about this crazy guy in your. In your area. I think it's really interesting the way that this guy is marketing, because there's an authenticity to it. Right. Talk about what this guy does, and let's pick it apart.

So, like, Mark, I've talked about him on this podcast before. I know. Even in January at the boot camp that we had, I was actually talking about this guy again. And Pete, literally, like, four people gathered around and they all knew him. And they weren't people in Florida, like New York and up north, because this is a Kia dealer. He's got car dealerships in New York. He's got three in Florida. And he's like the largest Kia dealer in North America or the world. I don't know which one, down in Kid Coral, Florida. But he also has a location here in the Tampa area where Kevin and I are based. And, you know, basically his ads are, you know, he's just rambling about nothing, talking about the deals that he's doing. You know, like, I'm gonna give. You give away a cruise or, you know, we're gonna party. He talks about, you know, dinners and restaurants and drinking and partying and these big, lavish meals he's eating. And he ends every ad with, it's huge, you know. You know, huge.

Tampa. Yeah. You got your voice down.

Exactly.

He's famous now for this huge thing. And what's interesting about the guy to me is when the commercial starts, it's a pattern interrupt. You ever heard that term before? Something we use in advertising a lot is to get people's attention. You have to take them out of what they're expecting. Right? And that's what this guy does so masterfully. It's like the commercial starts and the guys, like, Todd said he's just reminiscent. So he'd be like, carolyn, Carolyn, I was here till two in the morning last night. We're still putting a bunch of keys out the door. You know, we're writing deals till 2 in the morning. And then we went for, you know, we ordered pizza and we stayed up till five in the morning. We had a couple bottles of wine. You know, like, what is happening? It sounds like they started, you know, they played the wrong tape or something, you know, and then in the last 10 seconds ago, so get yourself down here. We're giving away a whole truckload of Kias to one person. They're giving away like a whole truck, like 8.8kias to one guy who needs eight cars. There's just no logic to any of it. But you. It's like, you can't not listen. Right. Every time my son and I drive around, you know, doing this impression, and he's become a character in people's lives. And like Todd said, you bring it up, and he's known in any region where he's advertising, people stop and listen to this guy. And so that's an important lesson. It's like, sometimes being the furthest thing from conventional you can be is the most effective thing you can do. And, you know, you can only assume that this evolved for this guy over time. He probably hired voice actors to say, come on this weekend, and you'll get five of the best deals on Kias that you see. Oh, got along. And then you just go like, nobody cares. Like, nobody's listening. He's like, just give me the microphone. Let me do it. Let me tell you something right now. You want huge? I'll give you huge. Like, what is. And so sometimes, like, don't, you know, be yourself. If you're, like, crazy or outrageous, the more comfortable you can be. Like, if I want to buy land, Ty, you're saying, like, land is boring, right?

Yeah.

If I'm thinking, all right, what's a land deal? Like, it's just talking to you guys right now, it's fascinating to me. I already want to learn more because to me, it does sound kind of sexy. It's like, you know what I love about land? It's dirt. It means that there's probably less people I have to deal with. Right. Because it's dirt. If you realtor selling houses and everything. Oh, my God. You got to have an open house and talk to all these people who are just, like, you know, knowsing around. They're never being interested. Land to me is like, this is great. You know, I would get a clump of dirt that I know is going to increase in value, and I. And I wisely invest in this or however it works. But if now. So if I got, like, five people I can choose to learn how to do land deals from, I want this guy going, come over here. If nothing else, I'm going to sit down with this guy and laugh my head off. Land deals aren't for me. Right. I might as well go with the colorful character.

Yeah. This guy is phenomenal, you know, like, because, look, we're talking about him. Other people are talking about him. We're giving them free publicity. Maybe we could charge him. Maybe we need to get him on the empire.

Yeah, but think about it like, this guy's, you know, doing something because we're inundated. We're inundated with these marketing. Marketing messages, right? They fill up our Facebook feeds. They're Everywhere. They're on LinkedIn, they're in social media. They're literally permeating every aspect of our lives, right? We can't go anywhere now without seeing an ad, right? Google gives us all this free stuff just to target us better and advertised us better. Same thing with Facebook. So this guy has created a way to break through the noise. And Kevin, how do you break through the noise?

I'll tell you the weirdest thing you mentioned about Google and all that is how is like, our phones make suggestions to us. Isn't that bizarre? You know, like Google just watches everything we do and like, based on our search history, they just make suggestions. And it gets. It's weird because there's other people using Google in my house, you know, like, I have kids. They're searching for stuff and then Google gets all that confused. You know, the other day it had recommended to me a gentleman's club featuring a dancer named Dora the Explorer. That was bizarre. You know what I mean? Like, I wouldn't. I went. I mean, it was good, but, you know, like, normally. I'm sorry, what was your question? I saw where to sneak a joke in. I had to go.

That was phenomenal. It was something about the, like, can we actually, like, can we write a pattern interrupt? You know, pattern is great for, you know, tv, commercial, radio, but can we write a pattern interrupt to like, is that just in the headline or how do I execute on it?

Yeah, that's a good question. It works best with video, but you have to be careful of is you're not you. Doesn't turn into sleight of hand, right? So you don't. It's not about promising one thing and then sort of tricking people into it being something else. The other thing you don't want to do is say, have some outrageous question and then say, like in an email, right? Your subject line would be something like, you know, a million dollars a minute income question mark. And then they open the email and says, well, no, not really, but you don't want to do that. Somebody's blows trust immediately, right? So it's not about hype, but it works really great in video. You know, a pattern interrupt would be, you know, some of the things that have become sort of hackneyed now that used to work really well was, you know, you'd click on the video and it'd be a picture of like a platypus. You know, and they'd say, this is a platypus. And this particular platypus eats only whatever, whatever, whatever. And believe it or not, this is the key to you finally earning that extra income that you've been searching for online. And in a minute, I'm going to explain how this platypus could be the. And you're going, all right, well, now you're kind of interested. It's a way to hook you in. Right. So that'd be one way to have a pattern interrupt. Just something that people aren't expecting, really. Yeah.

You're intrigued. How can a platypus mean financial freedom for me?

Exactly. And how many times can we say platypus before the FTC investigates?

Kevin, I once got some early advice about hiring a copywriter, and someone said to me, mark, a good copywriter writes good copy. A great copywriter writes good copy. That sounds like you. Do you agree with that statement?

I like that. Yeah. I would say there's some other qualifications, but that. That is. That is very good. Yes.

What are the other qualifications?

Well, a great copywriter. To me, it's the enthusiasm and the energy they bring to the project. Right. One of the biggest disconnects business owners have about hiring copywriters is this idea that they're handing off the job of getting the copywritten to this person. You can hire a vendor, but go to Fiverr and find somebody to just type for you, because that's not what a copywriter does. A copywriter, you know, devotes a month of their life to digging into your product, to really understanding what you do, to learning about you, your personal story. They bring a lot of energy and enthusiasm. It's almost like becoming a method actor in a sense. Right. You're taking on this role, and part of that is really nailing the voice of the expert you're writing for. So, yeah, that is a big part of it. That's one good qualifier. And glad you brought it up, because that is one of the biggest points of friction business owners have when it comes to hiring a copywriter is I don't feel like they're gonna nail my voice or I don't trust them with my voice. And I don't want it to feel like something I'm not.

Right, right. And then, Scott Todd, have you tried to hire a copywriter?

I have, and, you know, I kind of never really put the effort into, like, executing fully on it. You know, like, it's just something I've tried. And you hit some resistance, and then you Pull back a little bit.

Yeah. So, Kevin, I mean, the problem with copywriters is that it seems like there's no shortage of them. Prices are all over the place. And it's like hiring a dentist, right? Like you almost need a referral. Because if I do dental work for you, right, you won't know if it's good or bad. Right. Until another dentist looks in your mouth and says, hey, that's a lousy crown, Kevin Rogers. Or the copy gets written, you put it out to the world and you don't get any conversions. And then you're like, well, is it the copy? Is it list or is it my offer? Because these are three things. It's not like we can't just blame the copywriter because if we have a lousy offer, well, it doesn't matter. That could be the best copy of the world, right?

Yeah, exactly.

Right?

Yeah. That's the danger in just hiring a copywriter. What you really want is a copy. Someone who is not just a copywriter, they're a marketing expert with copywriting as their specialty. Right? That's what you really want. And you know, look, if you are really dialed in marketer, and your campaigns convert well, and you are your own best copywriter and you simply want to bring in somebody who can take that work off your desk, maybe bring some extra punch to it because they're just a better writer because it's their living, then that's a good time to just hire a copywriter. You can just do it based on their ability, their experience. However, most business owners need a lot of help with marketing. Like you said, Mark, it's not just a, it's not a they think they have a copy problem when oftentimes what they have is an offer problem. And you know my buddy Brian Kurtz, who was one of the most advanced direct response marketers in the world, he sent billions of pieces of mail over his 30 year career and he breaks it down into 40, 40, 20, 40% list, 40% offer and 20% copy. Now, as a copywriter, you think I should be up at arms going, that's crazy. It should be at least the 30, 30, 30 split. He's 100% right. Because look, you know, without that 20%, without the right copy, you, you're not going to sell like you should. But the best copywriting in the world, sending the wrong offer to the wrong list doesn't stand a chance. You won't get one sale. And Scott, I've been calling you Todd. I want to apologize for that.

No problem.

Fully aware that your name is Scott, now that I see it on my screen.

Oh, good.

By the way, Kevin, you're the first person ever to make that mistake.

Well, you got to walk around with two first names. You got a 50, 50 chance of people getting it right.

Yeah.

You knew the ads coming in, Scott.

I'm good. I'm good.

How often does that happen? We don't, we don't even correct people anymore. It happens so often.

It happens so much, I realize people are doing it.

Yeah, right.

I'm conscious.

So, okay, so I'm writing an ad, right, For a piece of land. I want to, I want to try to, you know, sell or maybe I'm making a website or, you know, maybe a squeeze page.

Right.

And I'm kind of lost. And I've got this whole world. I can go to Upwork and go to Fiverr. I can go to copychief.com right. At what point do I say, I need a professional here and I'm willing to pay for it because if I invest X amount, my ROI will be this amount. Right?

Yeah.

How do you even.

Absolutely.

How do you even qualify the right people to do this, to go get a copywriter?

I love the way you state your questions because you include part of the good answer in it. I mean, if that, if somebody can do what you just said and say, here's where I am now. So that means you have an offer live and you know the current conversion rate, then that is a great time to go seek a professional copywriter. Because now you can say to them, here's the deal, come look at my campaign. Here's the funnel, here's all the pieces of it. You know, X amount of people who come to these ads are buying and I want someone to come in and make x times 2, times 3, that amount of people buy instead. Do you think that's possible and they can look at it and assess it and say, yes, I think it's possible. I think I know what to do to make this, these ads convert even better. And I might suggest that we also do three other things that'll improve the funnel. And then it's about willingness to partner on the project on both sides again. There's a lot of anxiety around thinking of this as a one night stand and one off thing. It's like I'm just going to hire this stranger to write some stuff and then hopefully it'll convert. That's not the way to do it. Let's have a 90 day partnership where we're going to Accomplish the major part of writing an ad or rewriting an ad, and then we're going to stay together over the cycle of this ad to see, all right, is it converting better like we hoped? If not, let's fix it and get it to where it is converting. And then once it is converting as well as we think it it can, how do we make it convert even better? What else can we do? What other channels, what other mediums can we start to explore to bring people in another way? It's, you know, and the truth is it's actually less expensive and certainly less risky to do it that way because part of that agreement can be a revenue share where the copywriter's being based, you know, being paid partly on percentage of new sales. So you're really only paying out what you're earning in addition to what you're earning already. There's no reason for you to hand over 10 grand to a copywriter on an offer that's producing $20,000 a month and hope that they improve the exact same offer just with new copy. You could do that. It's not a bad investment, but so much better to create a short term partnership and could turn into a long term partnership. But you need a copywriter in your life. You don't just need to hand over your copy to somebody and hope it works.

I love it. I love it. So what is the biggest mistake that you see entrepreneurs making when they go through this process? Is it just the mindset that, hey, I'm going to hand it over to you, make it work? Or is it, is it twofold? Is it that the copywriter doesn't understand that market and the entrepreneur isn't explaining it well, not willing to put in the time to give them the proper research they need? So 85% of copyright, like you said in the beginning, is really, you know, spending a lot of time just understanding the market and trying to nail down your voice. So it's a lot of research involved. So I could see a lot of entrepreneurs who are super busy. Yeah, Evan, I don't have time to even do my books this week. How am I going to spend 30 days? Copywriter.

Yeah, sure. I was up at 4 in the morning with this copywriter. He's asking me all kinds of questions. And I said, just tell him it's huge. Yeah, well, that's the thing. It's like you can't have it. All, right? I mean, you can have. What's the old thing, you know, fast, fast, good and cheap. Pick two. Right. You know, you Just can't. You can't have it all. And that's the other thing about having a long term scenario. Even if, you know, 30 days is the minimum it'll take to get a good ad out of somebody. But if you can arrange a longer term situation, you don't have to devote a ton of time in the beginning to get it done right? So you don't have this like intense 30 day deadline where it's like you got to give a copyright of time. So if you're too busy to raise your conversions with better copy, then again, hiring a copywriter to fill that gap and expect them to do the things that you're not willing to do to improve is ludicrous. You should just save your money. But here's the thing, like you said, Mark, a lot of people will take that deal. There's a lot of. It seems like there's a ton of copywriters in there. Believe me, there's not a ton of good copywriters out there. There's very few. Because I have way more requests for copywriters than I have copywriters to recommend. You know, there is a lot of people out there calling themselves copywriters because they read a couple books and they decided this is what they love. But they are not willing to have these kinds of partnerships. And they don't, you know, they're not looking to spend. It's like lawn service, right? You know, you can hire someone to really come in and landscape and like design your whole landscape and lovingly put in the plants and the flowers and care for it and nurture it, right? Or you can hire the cheapest guy you can get to come push his mower over your lawn. And his objective is to get in and out as fast as possible so he can, you know, complete as many lawns that day as he can and, you know, and go get himself a new Kia. But yeah, that's the difference. I mean, you. How well do you want to do. Look, if you're just starting out and you need some help, what I recommend is put aside 30 minutes, three times a week and study some copy. You know, take a course, you know, learn how this stuff works because you can. You can't recognize if you're getting good copy, good work out of your copywriter unless you understand at least the fundamentals of what good copy is.

All right, so, Scott Todd, are you ready to hire?

I'm ready. Like I, I'm ready right now. I got some, I got some great, great ideas just from this about making Dirt. Interesting.

So, yeah, I mean, and Kevin, from your, from your business standpoint, you're kind of like, you know, one of those just lunch people. Like, I'm just going to connect you with somebody.

Yes.

You're basically the dating service.

Yeah, it's become that. Yeah, I embrace it, you know, but the interesting thing is it, it started out like that because there was just such a great need. You know, I had copywriters asking me how to get better clients. I had business owners asking me where all the good copywriters were. And what I found out was sometimes I'd connect people to work out great. Other times I'd connect them and it would fall apart. And I realized both parties need better education about how to work well together. And so that's my little niche in the world is like, I want to help business owners and copywriters understand the process so that they can do great work together. It doesn't have to be. It's not only for people with a huge cash drawer to dip into and pay. You know, everybody's got cash flow issues, man. I get that. But if you're willing to invest in a relationship and share part of the booty that you guys create together, then you can definitely have a great copywriter in your life. You just have to understand what that partnership looks like and be willing to invest in it.

All right, fantastic. Well, Scott, Todd, are we ready to put Kevin on the spot?

I think so.

Let's go. All right, Kevin Rogers, what is your tip of the week? A website, a resource, a book, something actionable where the art of passive income model listeners can go right now, improve their businesses, improve their lives. What do you got besides the Kia dealership?

Well, I do have something huge. Huge. I do have something huge. I got a thing I did, as I mention, I was a stand up comic, right. And then I came into copywriting. So what I did was I looked back over, started getting really interesting in the science of joke telling and what makes people laugh. Right. And I started to discover these joke formulas that are pervasive. And so I took one of those and I just changed the last part of it and made it into a sales hook formula. It's really cool. So everybody understands jokes and how jokes work. This is a lot like just writing a little joke about yourself, but instead of having a wacky twist at the end or having a, you know, you're not trying to get a laugh. Instead of the surprise that would normally lead to the laughter, we just change that part to result. And you talk about the results that your discovery led to. Okay, so you want me to walk you through it real quick or is that too long for this?

No, no, go ahead.

Alright, so here's how it goes. The joke formula is what I call the Persona joke formula. And it goes like this. It's four parts. It's identity, struggle, discovery, surprise. One of my favorite examples is a comedian named Karen Rontoski. And the first time she was on Letterman, this was her opening joke. She said, my kids were so bad in Walmart today that I pulled a flyswatter off the shelf and I smacked them with it. And as soon as the flyswatter hit their ass, I realized I don't have kids. It's hilarious, right? So that's the exact formula. Identity, struggle, discovery, surprise. Now for us, all we have to do is change that last part and tell a different story. It's identity, struggle, discovery result. Yeah. So mine would be to talk about this exact formula. I'd say, hey, I'm Kevin Rogers. You basically read mine, Mark, at the opening of the show, I say, I'm Kevin Rogers. I spent years traveling around the United States as a dead broke stand up comedian until I discovered how a simple joke formula could be turned into an irresistible sales hook and began teaching business owners how to use it to grow their improve their sales. And you know, ever since then, thousands of business owners have used this formula and the results of their business have been mind blowing. If you'd like to discover how you can use the same simple joke formula turned sales hook in your business for your messaging, simply enter your email below and hit give it to me and I'll see you on the next page. That's it, right? Same exact formula, identity, who am I? What was I struggling with? For Karen, she has rowdy kids. The discovery for me is this parallel between messages. For her, it's a fly swatter. The surprise for her is they're not even her kid she's beating. The result for me is that this formula does wonders for people I teach it to. So that's it. Identity, struggle, discovery, result. And my resource is the book I wrote that teaches this formula called the 62nd sales hook. The beauty of it is that you can deliver this in under 60 seconds. We just had a challenge inside of Copychief in the members area where I challenged some of the members to make these videos and they did a great job. It's really easy to do and it's fun and man, I tell you, there's nothing more powerful than a one minute video that shares Your struggle and your passion and lets people know this is somebody I can relate to.

Fantastic, man. How do we compete against that, Mark?

I don't know. I don't know. How much is your book, Kevin?

It's free, man. 60secondsaleshook.com or if you like spending money and you like paperback, you can't get it on Amazon for five bucks, but wow.

My second favorite word after automation.

There you go. Look, Mark, I don't know how to compete against that. I mean like that's phenomenal, right? But here's, here's our resources. We're talking about copywriting. Here's a resource that everybody should go look at. Read. I found them to be interesting reads. I'm sure Kevin knows all about them. It's the Gary Halbert letters. You know about them, right? So if you, if you're new to like copywriting and you're looking to spend just a few minutes each, each, every few days to learn, there's a, there's a wealth of free content there. Just Google Gary Halbert letters. And this, this is a series of letters that a world renowned copywriter wrote. You know, there's always little tidbits that you can pick up from there. Again, you're not looking to be the expert here because you can hire copywriter to do it. But just as Kevin said, you want to be able to know like the basics in the, in the foundation. And I think that's a great place to go get it. And it's free.

I love it. I love it. So I've got two tips of the week. My first one is this is big news because we can actually hire copy chief to help us with our Facebook Marketplace ads because Facebook is now looking to disrupt Craigslist. We all know what a bear Craigslist can be. And Scott Todd is like, oh no, not gonna create posting domination.com for Facebook. You know, we'll automate it. But if you don't have a good solid ad engine, right, Aida. Attention.

Interest.

Decision. Action.

Desire. Action. Yeah.

Desire. Action. Sorry Kevin. Then you know, if you're, you're gonna get lost in all the ads. So that's my first tip of the week is definitely start exploring Facebook Marketplace. My second tip of the week is don't waste time, right? Get some. So get yourself some powerful copy, right? Go to copychief.com but don't forget to go to 60 second. Saleshook. Calm right, 60 and I'll have it on the links. By the way, 60 is the number. 60 second is spelled out saleshook.com and learn more about Kevin and his copywriting dating service.

Mark, how many calories did you burn during this interview out there in front of me?

You know what's so funny is I'm gonna get the new Apple watch just so I can know, because I had the Fitbit and my son took it, so I couldn't tell you. I could tell you, though, like, I'm doing 10,000 steps before noon.

Nice. Good for you.

Because sitting's the new smoking Kevin Rogers.

It is, brother.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So are we good, Kevin?

Yeah, we're good, man. This was a lot of fun and I want to know more about land deals.

So, yeah, you're going to learn more. Can you help me with a quick 22nd spot for my new product called Loan? Today's podcast is sponsored by Loan Geek in beta. Loan Geek helps you automate your loans, set it and forget it and get paid. Kevin Rogers Lousy 20 seconds plug.

You know, when I first started doing loans, it was so tedious. It would take me all day just to get the paperwork together. And then I discovered Loan Geek. What's it called?

Loan Geek.

You're right. I came out, I had it. Then I discovered Lonegeek, and now I've got time to do all kinds of stuff like go skinny dipping with the neighbors.

Now, see, this is. This is the difference between an amateur and a professional. Right? Honestly, I think you just nailed it on the head, like, nail, like, why I'm going to be hiring you, Mark, like, after this podcast.

And then you got to close with.

It's huge, Scott. It's huge.

All right, so look, the only way we're gonna get the quality of guests like Kevin Rogers from 60secondsaleshook.com and copychief.com is if you subscribe, rate, and review the podcast, please do so. It really does help. It really does. Don't make us beg. And if you do so, send us a screenshot of the review. To support the landgeek.com we're gonna send you the passive income lunch kit for free and an extra bonus. For free. For free. Right. Don't forget about land investing flight school. That webinar is gonna come out live very soon. Register for it and see if you are ready to start getting passive income and getting results. Right? So we're flipping it Right. Home information courses, 3% success rate. Our coaching. Right. 97%. Right. You want to buy a lottery ticket or you want to get results? There's no longer a knowledge gap. It's an execution gap and we're here to fill it. Scott Todd I couldn't be more excited.

I can't wait.

Mark.

Eight weeks intensive group coaching. Get ER done. Kevin Rogers copychief.com 67sales hook.com thanks again Scott Todd landmoto.com, scott todd.net, posting domination.com landgeek thank you and give me some love. Go to thelandgeek.com, download for free the passive Income Blueprint. Get on the live webinar and see if the eight week intensive land investing flight school is right for you.

All right.

Thanks everybody. See you next time.

I'm Mark. See you.