How Multifamily Real Estate Investing Can Lead to Perpetual Wealth

Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the land geek with your favorite niche real estate website, thelandgeek.com and on this week's Roundtable podcast, we have a special guest, Justin Moy from perpetualwealthcapital.com if you're not familiar with Justin, he manages all aspects of Perpetual Wealth Capital's growing portfolio. And Justin has been involved in residential real estate. He's won awards and what he specializes in, helping investors achieve long term projects that provide favorable cash flow. Scott Todd, it's one of your favorite words, favorable cash flow. And it's one of Eric Peterson's favorite words, appreciation. Justin Moy, welcome.

Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here and as always, talk finances, talk money, talk real estate.

Yeah, let's talk some shop. All right, Justin, before we do, let's just rewind the tape. How did you get started in real estate?

Yeah, I had quite the journey. A little less conventional than what most people from, from kind of what I've heard from others. Out of high school, I ultimately, I really hated school. I hated everything about it. I hated going, I didn't feel like I was learning. I hated the teachers. I hated the people that I was going to school with. I just really wanted to avoid it. But my parents, being the great generational parents that they were, told me that school is extremely important. I said, hey, you have to go and get your degree. None of my parents went to college. And because of that, they've always felt like their opportunities were very limited, which, you know, at that point in their lives was fairly true. So they just said, hey, you know, you got to go to college. No matter what you do, please go to college. If you want to make any money, you got to go to college. So I went to junior college for a semester. I, you know, messed around there. I barely passed my first semester of just general studies. And I started thinking to myself, if I really want to make money and I don't want to go to college, what can I do? And one thing I knew, I was, I was really good at sales. I was really good at sales, really good at retail sales. I worked at gnc. I was like the top salesperson every single month. I worked at a sports shop. I was top salesperson every single month. So I said, well, how can I make a lot of money in sales? Why don't real estate agents make a lot of money? Know, insurance agents make a lot of money? Now, I grew up in the East Bay of California, and at the time it was the third most competitive market in the country. And I did some mental math and said, well, real estate agents got to make a ton of money. So I dove into real estate as a sales professional. I got my real estate license, and, you know, thankfully, I was really good at it. I helped a lot of people buy and sell properties. I was rookie of the year. We won numerous awards, me and my team. I ended up hiring some staff and really opened my eyes to the world of real estate. And eventually, what led me into more of the investment in the ownership side is I would sell homes to investors, and I would run their pro formas, and I would see how much money that they were projecting to make, and they would always blow those out of the water. And so eventually, you know, fast forward a couple steps. I got in on the owner side, the investor side, but I loved every role within the real estate game that I've had.

Well, awesome. Awesome. So before we go to the panel, I know you specialize in multifamily, so why multifamily of all the niches?

Yeah, multifamily for me and a lot of people who go into the commercial space kind of have this in common. I'm a very impatient guy. I'm a very impatient guy. Anybody who's in the investing space and your social media is full of investing profiles and tips, you see this all the time. You see, hey, if you invest 500,000 doll bucks a month, every month for 30 years, you'll have a million dollars. And I was like, wow, how boring. I got to do something for 30 years, 40 years, before I make good money. And then when it comes to the single family space, typically a lot of people have this plan, I'll buy a single family home every single year. Well, if you talk about net cash flow, it's going to take a lot of years to make a significant impact on your life. So I was looking for ways to scale that quickly. I was looking for something that just had a little bit of a bigger picture, a little bit more of a life impact, and multifamily solved that for me. So I dove in both feet to multifamily. Haven't looked back since. It provides a much quicker, much more access to scale and a significantly quicker path to financial freedom.

All right, it makes sense. So I love it when you call me Big Papa. Tate Litchfield, what's your question for Justin Moyo?

Well, Justin, it's a pleasure to have you on our call today. I love getting different perspectives from successful entrepreneurs. And I was curious, something steered towards you towards multifamily. I understand why, but what was it that really got you excited about it? Was it the first deal that you did? Was it the first time you saw a big check? What was it that made you go, okay, I'm in for life at this point?

Yeah, I think that Bug was always there because I was in the broker space. I had a mentor who was in the single family space predominantly, but he himself had brokered a couple multifamily deals, and he had owned multifamily in Oakland, California, and in Berkeley in the East Bay. And God, at the time, he was the richest guy I've ever met by far. And so I always had this goal, like, hey, I want to be like that guy, and I'm going to build a path similar to him. And then once I found out about multifamily and I ended up down some rabbit hole, right, I followed one influencer, got another influencer, read a couple books, heard some podcasts. It started to become real for me. It started to become possible. My mentor achieved his multifamily wealth, you know, after about 15 or 20 years of brokering single family homes. And once I started following a couple influencers in the space, I started to realize that I don't need to do that, I can skip that and I can go right into the multifamily space with the right mentorships and the right team. And so, you know, that Bug was always there. I always knew eventually I wanted to own big properties, big buildings. But a lot of the influencers, the big people in the space kind of showed me that it's possible to skip a lot of those. You don't have to flip homes before you start buying multifamily. That's kind of a common thing that a lot of people think. So it really was the influencers and the mentors in the space that made me realize like, this is possible, this is achievable no matter what your skill set is.

So I guess my flip side, that's really. That's really powerful. What do your friends and family think? I mean, surely they've watched you and everybody knows that the greatest path to wealth is real estate. So are they involved? Are they intrigued? What's the family, friends relationships like?

Yeah, so my family, I absolutely love them to death. They are in a separate financial category that I tend to help a little bit with some things for them. And so when it comes to syndicating multifamily, and we're looking for 50,000 plus investors, they're not exactly the perfect customer for that or the perfect investor for that, just from an ability standpoint. But they've always been my biggest fans. I've always said, no matter how hard my day is, no matter what I'm going through, I've always been able to sit down and say, at least I have friends and family that really love and support me, and if that's what their capabilities are, that's perfectly fine. That's really all I need. So my family is extraordinarily supportive, and they've actually invested in the most recent deal that we're raising money for. They got the money, and I chipped in a little bit as well. So I'm getting them in the game now. My friends, yeah, they love it. You know, the reason why I have my own podcast is because I love to talk about real estate. So I talk about real estate to my friends all the time. They're of different interest levels. Right. But eventually that message is going to get through. And, you know, I'm starting now to get a lot of random texts from friends saying, hey, by the way, you're still doing apartments, right? Yeah. Okay. I saw this article. What do you think about it? And so slowly getting through to a lot of people who this was never on their radar because it's kind of intimidating and scary to think of big multifamily properties when you're new to the game. So I think there's a big breakthrough point there for a lot of people and definitely starting to see some of the interaction come back on that front now. I love it.

Thanks.

Appreciate it.

Awesome. Well, before we get to Eric's important question, let's go to the brain, the professor, the flight school sherpa, Scott Todd from scotttodd.net, landmodo.com, learn anything about anything. Investorninjas.com Scott Todd, what's your question for Justin Moy?

All right, Justin, so like, you talked about instant gratification. That's core, quicker gratification, impatience. And I would just challenge you. You haven't looked at LAN yet because, like, you want, like, rapid deal flow, man. They come in fast. We sell them fast. Like, it's rapid, right? Like, it's rapid fire. It's like day trading real estate, honestly. But that's cool. I'm not going to try to swing you out of multifamily. The question that I would have really for our audience is, okay, I want to do multi family. And, you know, to go do that, I either need to have some deep pockets for the 20% or whatever the capital is, or I need to have a network of people that I go raise this for from. So someone starting new, what would you advise them to do if they didn't have the money in their pocket? I mean, like, land, I can get going for $100 today, start by land, but I can't do that $100 without some friends.

Yeah, right, Absolutely. So I love the land plug. And hey, when I had Mark on my podcast, I was like, shoot, I got to look into this more. So I definitely agree with your perspective there. It's something on the radar. But, hey, we dive in both feet to the things that we're passionate about. So for right now, it is multifamily. But you know, the great thing about multifamily and where I actually think you have an advantage over single family is that it takes a team, it takes a tribe to buy and invest in multifamily. So you don't need to have money. The first few deals we did, I had zero dollars. I mean, I graduated college a couple months prior to my first deals. I had zero dollars and I had zero dollars invested in the deals. But I had other skillsets that I brought. I had a marketing background. I have a sales background. So I was aggressively pursuing deals on and off market, following up with brokers, underwriting deals. There's things that you can do without a financial commitment if you have the time and the willingness to learn about different skills that you need. So you don't need to have cash if you have time and a willingness to learn. On the flip side of that, if you have cash and you don't have time, you can passively invest. So what I would say to that person starting out is find out what the key categories of skills that people need to purchase multifamily. On a broad level, it's finding deals and raising money, right? So if you have friends with deep pockets and a really good network, maybe you can raise some money for an experienced partner. If you don't have access to that, like I did, hey, start learning about underwriting deals. Start underwriting deals. Start bringing them to other investors and saying, hey, I underwrote this deal. Is this a good deal? Is this something you would purchase and maybe come in with me on and just keep refining that process, but find out what you're good at. It doesn't need to be money. You don't need to have big pockets. And then network to find people who have complimentary skill sets that are looking for something that you can bring to the Table.

I love it. I love it. The Zen master. Breathe in the mailing, breathes out the marketing. Mike Zano. Mike, what's your question for all things multifamily? Justin Moyo.

Justin, yes.

Thank you for coming today. So I don't care what kind of real estate it is. It could be a crazy busy day. So I imagine it's the same for you. Emails, text messages, phone calls, tips, tricks, tactics for staying focused, having a really efficient day.

How do you do it? Yeah, I am a huge, huge, huge believer and I'm going to save it. I'm going to save it for the resource. I won't say what it is yet, but I'm a huge believer in concentrated and deep work. It's not the book deep work, so you got to stick around for it. But really, even right now, my phone has been on. I don't know if you guys can see, but it's been on do not disturb the whole time. It stays on do not disturb for most of the day unless something really crazy is going on and people know how to get around. If you call me twice, it'll ring. And only my top vendors know that. Like if I'm in an escrow and time is of the essence, I'll tell them I'm going to be on do not disturb most of the day. Call me twice, it'll go through. I turn off every notification, every single one. I check things in time blocks when I'm ready to. And that has made me such an efficient worker. And I went from having literally 12 to 15 hour days consistently down to 6 to 8 hours consistently, sometimes even less. When you take control of your calendar and you take control of your notifications and you let yourself get into a flow state of work that's unhealthy, uninterrupted. You're knocking out tasks that used to take three, four hours in one hour or a little bit, little bit more. So I'm a huge, huge, huge believer in no notifications and deep work. If you are going to do something, lock out enough time to do it and finish it. Super helpful. Thank you. Absolutely.

Cal Newport. Deep work. Which brings us to the technician, Eric Peterson sands a rib in his mouth all the way in Nashville, Tennessee. Eric, I assume you've eaten lunch today.

I have.

Was it ribs?

It was.

The podcast audience wants to know.

No, it was a salad and half of a wrap.

The opposite of ribs.

Can I think of the opposite of ribs?

What can I say?

I know one of these days he's going to surprise us. Be like, yeah, I had ribs and hot chicken. It was amazing.

There you go.

But usually it's like salmon or salad. All right, I digress. Eric, what's your question for Justin Moy?

Justin, I guess what I want to know about is just finding deals in our current market. I know with my experience in the land market over the last, let's say 12 to 24 months, it's been getting harder and harder for us to buy land. People are wanting to hang on to those assets. You know, how, how's that working for you in multifamily? Whether that's, I don't know if it's apartments, if it's duplexes or all of.

The above, whatever, but everybody who's buying right now, I want to say hurt is hurting, but. But not really because what we're seeing in the current environment is it's weeding out a lot of people who essentially have a low threshold for pain. Right? And that's where really a lot of the top, the 1 percenters, the people who are going to rise in any industry they pursue, there's tremendous opportunity. So I know some people who have dropped out of the game because the market's too hot. Everybody on this call has heard that while the market's hot, I'm going to wait till things cool down. We'll never cool down. And when it does cool down, it cools down for a reason. It's because people are not buying. So there's going to be a big glaring reason for that as well. That'll be the next excuse. The market right now is tough for buyers. What I can say to that is if you develop your systems and processes and stick to them, you will continue to produce. Every top producer in every field, real estate or not, if you stick to your processes and adjust as needed, you will continue to produce. The wholesale industry is being hit really hard right now because sellers know I could put this to market and get way more than you're asking for. The top wholesalers I know do not care. Their systems and processes stay true. Every single lead they get, they run through the same. They have the same tactics or they adjust them, but they're very, very strict on them. So what I would say is find your core sources of deal flow. For larger multifamily, I'd say 50 plus units, we tend to like to stick close to 100 plus brokers. Brokers are going to broke about 98% of those. So we network with brokers relentlessly. A broker that I come in contact with does not not hear from me for longer than a 28 day period in some fashion. Whether I'm delivering value, I'm emailing them, I'm calling just to catch up and see how their weekend was. But that's our core source. If people have other core sources, they might be direct to seller. Maybe they do mail or text splash or they go door knocking. Whatever the case may be, pick your top sources and just stick to the process. I have a really brief story and I know we want to keep it a little bit more brief, but when I was in real estate sales, I got my first listing. Literally after I had my hand in my face and I was ready to quit, I got my first listing. I was calling FSBOs for sale by owners. I was getting screamed at, I was getting hung up on. It was probably eight or nine months of four to eight hours a day hitting the phones and I was like, this is so dumb. Everybody lied to me. This isn't how you do it. Everybody has these other opportunities. I don't have nobody cold calls anymore. And I was packing up, I was getting ready to go home. And I promise you, the universe just does these things. I got a notification, I had Google notifications set up for new FSBOs. A Craigslist listing just went up and I literally sat on my computer for maybe a minute or two. I said, do I call this person or do I just go, this is ridiculous? I called that person, went through my script and they said, yeah, actually, why don't you come by tonight and talk to me about it? And I actually thought it was a joke. I thought it was a prank. I kind of stuttered a little bit and I said, yeah, I could do that. I grabbed my mentor, we went there and I signed. That was my very first listing. It was $2.1 million. So the universe has this ringer. It's going to run you through, but if you stick to it, you stick to the system, you stick to the process, you will be successful and you'll be able to find deals. I love it. Thanks.

All right, Justin, so what don't we know about multifamily that would sort of separate you in the category? So give us something like. Because we're always constantly, constantly hearing about multifamily apartment buildings. We're going to buy B, we're going to improve it to B plus, we're going to improve it to A minus. Or we're going to buy C plus, we're going to improve the B minus. What don't we know?

Yeah, that's a common one. It's the perfect business plan. We bought the ugliest units on the block and we're bringing them up to par or maybe even surpassing them. What I would say about multifamily is in the long term, it doesn't have a downside that when I look at alternative investment space, we talk about things like recessions and we talk about things like, well, what are the downturns look like? Well, what if, you know, everybody thinks when they're becoming a landlord, what if people stop paying? You know, Multifamily has been stress tested in all of those, especially with COVID when delinquency rates are actually very, very low. I would say that a lot of the big things that I thought about multifamily, it's scarier, it's riskier, it requires me to have deeper pockets. None of those were true. When you dig in and look at the data, none of those were true. It's actually more resilient in a recession than single family home investing. It's actually more resilient in market downturns than other types of real estate investing. You actually can invest with as little as even a couple hundred bucks with these REITs that are out there now. To get started, you can syndicate properties and have $0 to your name. There is so much opportunity in the multifamily space that before I really started to sit down and get educated on it, it was like one myth after another just kept getting dispelled by data. So if you dive into the data, it just becomes such an irresistible asset class, in my opinion. And that's really why I pursued it heavily.

All right, I love it. I love it. And I think your mentorship this round to a podcast has been invaluable. But that being said, Justin, we're going to put you on the spot one more time.

Love it.

And ask you for your tip of the week. A website, a resource, a book, something that was actionable for the auto passive income listeners to go improve their businesses, improve their lives. But before you give it, I've got to give a shout out to our sponsor this week, which is flight school. Learn how the next 16 weeks can transform your life. Start building that passive income in raw land investing with Scott Todd. Taking you up the mountain quickly, safely, efficiently. And you don't have to deal with any renters, rehabs, renovations or rodents. Because once your passive income exceeds your fixed expenses, you're working because you want to, not because you have to. Your next step, your next plan of action is simple. Just go to langateek.com training schedule, a call with the Zen Master magazine or the Nightcap OG Dude Buddy Scott Bossman and make sure that this is a appropriate model for you. Thelandgeek.com Training Justin Moy what is your tip of the week?

Yeah, my tip of the week is something that is, it's so incredibly simple. But to me it changed the trajectory of my life personally and professionally. That tip is always look for reasons to be grateful. Always look for reasons to be grateful. No matter what business you're in. If you're an investor, passive, active, whatever the case may be. If you love your job, hate your job, it doesn't matter. You're going to have days where you just like I was back getting before getting my first listing where your face is just in your hands and you just don't want to do it anymore. Always look for a reason to be grateful. For me, like I said before, it was my parents. Thank goodness I have my parents. I have the people who love me and support me or turning these things that I don't want to do in opportunities. Sometimes it's stressful to come in and see I got to underwrite eight or nine deals. But if you just change that mindset to man, I get to underwrite eight or nine deals today. There's other people who would kill to be where you're at no matter where you are in life. So if you're able to start with gratitude and look for reasons to be grateful, you're always going to find what you're looking for. You're going to find reasons to be grateful. And I think you had mentioned a resource as well, the book again that changed my life. A lot of life changing moments coming out right Here in this 20 minute episode, a book called Limitless. That was probably the first book that I had read and it just, it was so good at breaking down barriers, it was so good at opening up possibilities and it was such a well written book that it just opened up my eyes to even things like thinking that multifamily was possible. For me, it really does a good job of instilling a, you know, why not me mentality. And so I think those two things at the very, very base level will, will change the trajectory, the trajectory of anybody's life.

Awesome. Awesome. I love it. And you know, I couldn't, I couldn't agree more. My tip of the week is going to be learn more about multifamily investing and Justin Moy. He's got a phenomenal podcast all you need to do is go to perpetual wealth.com perpetual wealth.com check it out. Also, if you're getting value from the podcasts, just do us three little favors. It'll take two minutes. Follow rate, review the podcast. Send us a screenshot of that review. To support the landgeek.com I'm going to send you for free a signed copy of Dirt Rich. So please do it. All right, Justin, are we good?

Yeah, absolutely. Actually, if you do want to learn multifamily, it might be easier. I have a free ebook that you can download. You can just go to the definitiveguidebook.com I talk about multifamily. We do some case studies, talk about how multifamily compares to other types of real estate investing. So I know some people just like to download something and read at their leisure. So that could be a great resource as well.

Fantastic. We'll have a link to that because, Justin, between you and me, no one can spell definitive. And then you get a throwing guidebook dot com.

Yeah, yeah, it was taken. And if they can't do definitive, I don't know if perpetual is. Is. Is high up on the. On the radar there, so it's not any better.

That's okay. It's okay. Yeah.

Post podcast will talk about marketing.

Anyways, it's. It's good. I'm just. I'm just playing.

It's great.

But we'll have a link to it. That's very generous. And are you ready to do this, guys? 1, 2, 3. Let's let freedom ring. All right, thanks, everybody.

Thanks for listening to the Art of Passive Income podcast. Are you ready to learn how you can start building a passive income without renters, rehabs, renovations, or rodents? Schedule a free consultation at the land geek.com forward/training. Let freedom ring.