How to Build a Richer Life and Grow Your Business without Cold Calls

Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the land geek with your favorite niche real estate website, thelangic.com and on this week's Art of Passive Income podcast. If you want to build a richer life, grow your business without cold calls, and get expert advice that actually works, stick around, because on this podcast, we're diving into the secrets of generating referrals, scaling with ease, and learning from the pros who've been there, done that, and got the T shirt but probably didn't wear it to a networking, to a networking event. If you're ready to level up, I want to introduce you to my guest today, Brian McRae. Brian, welcome. And what are we talking about, Brian? Why should we, why should we listen to you about building a richer life and growing our business without cold calls?

Well, first of all, Mark, I just want to say thank you. It is, it's an honor to be here and getting to know you and just the heart you have for serving your audience. It's a real privilege to be here. So thank you. And, you know, I think we got connected through a relationship. Charles Byrd had made a connection, and we just, it was a, it was a pleasure getting to know you. And that is kind of the secret behind what you just said, that intro, by the way. Thank you for that. You know, here's one of the things that I know is that relationships can take us places in our business that traditional marketing just can't. And so that's really the passion. The purpose of what we're trying to do with the collaboration with John and myself when we built the Rich Relationship Society is we wanted to help people. There's this art form, there's a science and an art form to building relationships, and we wanted to help demystify that so people could literally build richer relationships. And if we get a chance, I'll get into what rich means. But it's, it's rich. It does. It's rich relationships that lead to a richness of life. And so that is what, that's, you know, what we're really trying to do is help people build that rich richness of life through relationships, that their business is growing, they're winning at work and they can win at home. So I love it.

I'm going to try not to cry. But can you kind of tell us the backstory of how you came about and, and the person you're trying to really serve in, in helping our listeners build a, a richer life through richer relationships?

Well, first of all, the story I'm going to talk about, John Rulin and John was. Was larger than life. And if you. And he's actually the one that came up with the rich acronym, and it is an acronym, and I'll get to that in a little bit. But John and I, you know, both of us. Well, first of all, John's a lot smarter and a lot more charismatic than I am. But I got introduced to John. My background was running, building, growing, and scaling a mortgage operation, and spent my time doing that. But about 15 years ago, I got really passionate about helping others kind of grow their business through relationships. That's how I had built my. My mortgage practice, you know, and there's so many businesses out there that are. That are transactionally driven, but rely on relationships for sustainability and, you know, relation. I mean, we could talk about referrals forever, and there's a lot of different resources out there for referrals and how to get them, but there's a way to do it in an awkward, you know, without the awkward ask. And we were trying to show people how to build relationships that were sustainable. And so I was running an event to do that. I actually got to meet John. John and I lived in not too far from each other, and he. I just kept hearing John Rulin, John Rulin. And people were telling me. And I finally got a chance to talk to him, and I said, john, would you come speak at this event that I'm running? Because I had created a free event in. In the area that I was living in and just to try to help encourage people, because again, I was in the mortgage business, and. And in about 2011, this vision kind of hit me of inspire people. And I won't get into the long story, but I was like, what does that mean? And I just knew that my referral partners, the strategic partners that were feeding me were struggling. So we started this free event. Ten years later, John comes and speaks at it. And anyway, he just. He and I got to hit it off, and we just started figuring out what we could do together. And I started meeting with his team, and he had built such an amazing business, and I got to experience it. I was a recipient of Giftology, so I didn't even know John that well initially. And here are things. I'm getting texts, I'm getting emails, I'm getting gifts from him. He was loving on me and just trying to figure out what he could do to support me. He said, brian, let me know what I can do to help. And he just always had this desire. His. His. You know, one of the. One of the Acronyms that he had was, was reciprocity. And his, his give in every relationship was always bigger than any ask that he ever had. His give was always bigger than his ask. So anyway, John and I, he spoke at the event and we hit it off and his team approached me and said, Brian, we've seen some of your stuff and we really, we've got an audience and we, we believe in education and not everybody inside of the Giftology space that's fan of community can afford the gifting agency side of things. And so how do we, we have this vision of helping them operationalize and not only grow their relationships horizontally, but grow them vertically. So going deeper with individuals and building relationships that last. So we just started collaborating and starting to come up and that's when we developed a course and then a community. And that's how we got to where we are today, which is unfortunately, as John and I were getting ready to launch this, I got a phone call from a member of his team and it was August 4th. I was in the car and John passed away Suddenly. He was 44 years old and he was on a family vacation with his, his immediate family is an extended family. And John was, if you ever met John, he loved, he loved his wife Lindsay and he had four beautiful daughters. And by the way, I've got three daughters myself. So. But John passed away. He collapsed on vacation and couldn't be revived. And so we're carrying on the torch. And candidly, that's how we met. We were, was relationships. John just had these amazing relationships. And then Charles Bird was just saying, hey, what can I do to help? And so we were talking to Charles and he connected me with you and here we are. So there's a long story, but John was just an amazing human being and he built this. He just reimagined how generosity could impact people and he built an amazing business around it. Wrote a best selling book called Giftology, which is still, you know, kind of a go to book for many industries in terms of building relationships.

So yeah, yeah, amazing. And thank you so much for, for sharing that. And so what does rich mean?

Well, you know, I think it's. We came up with that name or actually John. It was John's acronym, but it was, it was an example of what he tried to be. He tried to be rich for other people. And it's an acronym that stands for reciprocal. And you know, when you think about it, John was always the guy that would hold the door open first and he didn't expect the person to hold hold the next door open. But he did it. And, you know, it's not like you were walking. This wasn't like walking into a. Into the grocery store. John was doing it at the biggest levels. He was always looking for, again, being able to provide value at. And just make an amazing impact. And so that's it standard for reciprocal, influential. John was always influential. You know, my definition of influence is. Is really trying as having a positive impact on the way way people think, feel, and act. And that's what John did. He had a positive impact, and he did not hesitate if he could, if there was. If there was a. He boldly approached the biggest personalities in the room to figure out what he could do to support them, to help them. And so it's. Rich stands for reciprocal, influential, and also connected. So our connections mean everything. And like I said, referral relationships will take us places that traditional marketing can't. John knew that. And there were. You know, if you ever read giftology, there's a story about Cameron Herold in the beginning of that. And Cameron was a successful COO of a pretty major corporation that was exponentially growing it. John wanted to get to know him, and John got to talk to him for a little bit and asked him a crazy question. $7,000 later and an entire Brooks Brother Ward fall wardrobe in a Ritz Carlton room opened up a relationship. And that was an example of John just building connections being, you know, just opening doors. And so he was. He's one of the most connected individuals anywhere. And he was humble. That's what the H stands for. H is just having humility. And, you know, John. John wasn't candidly. We were joking. He didn't. He had a CRM, but he didn't even know the password, how to get into it. His heart was the CRM. He was humble. He was always trying to. To serve people at the highest level. And he really wasn't seeking the glory for himself. You know, candidly, John was a person of faith, and he always shared what his faith meant to him. And, you know, and I think that was a real light for so many people. But John was always looking to. To lift others up. And that's, you know, just another definition of humble. So it's to a short. Short answer to a long answer to a short question. So I'll shorten it. It stands for reciprocal, influential, connected, and humble. And that's a real good definition of how. What to seek in relationships. And so that's what rich relationship society is about. It's a group of rich People who are reciprocal, they want to help people. They're influential, they're connected and they're humble. And we're coming together in this community and helping them operationalize their, their relationship building so that they can be a light in the world, in the communities that they serve again, so that they can get the referrals that they need to drive the revenue that they're looking for and get the results in their business in the most fulfilling of ways.

Yeah, it's so true. And it's all about relationships. At the end of our lives. It's all about relationships. I've never really met John. I met him. I didn't meet him, but I saw him at a networking event, Genius Network. And of course, in John Rulin fashion, he's this bigger than life character. And he presented to Joe Polish on stage at this, you know, this annual event. You know, I don't know how many entrepreneurs are in the room. And it's a beautiful piece of art. If I had to guess the, the price of it, you know, probably over $20,000. And it was, it touched everyone in the room, especially touched the recipient, Joe Polish. And, and so you don't have to actually spend that kind of money. But what, what, what he was doing essentially was saying in that, in that art, it was, it was something that was very unique. It was something very personal because it was a picture of, of Joe with his best friend that had passed away and, and two other, you know, close friends of his, like this, this thing. And so it was very, you know, meaningful and long lasting. And so, and then when you and I got to talking, you had sent me a gift that was really interesting in the sense that. Yet you sent me the giftology book. But the way that you sent it, it was beautifully packaged, but it came with a video note and it was personal and it was memorable. And I can even, I can. I remember getting gifts, you know, that are very personal to me and they're, you know, from 20 years ago. And so when someone does that is meaningful and you never forget it. Now if you're going into it, I think with a, in a way that like, like you said, where it's, the intent is I want something from this person, so I'm going to give them this gift. I don't think that works. I think when you hold the door open when you give the gift and then you just let it be and, and let that relationship actually, you know, move through its natural course and you continue to give without any expectation that those relationships deepen at a much accelerated level than they would if you weren't that way. But I just spoke a lot. Brian, I'd love for you to unpack. Well, what I said and have you sort of translate it in your way, if you will.

Well, Mark, it's in terms of what radical generosity. John, John. John did it through gifting. And that's why he, you know, it's interesting if you ever got a chance. And when I was talking to John and listening to him and he said, you know, Brian, he goes, it's interesting, you know, there's a book out there called the Five Love Languages. He goes, it's interesting. My love language isn't even gifting. He goes, it's actually words of affirmation. He goes, I just love it when people love the gift and they talk about it. It just when I can. And it's just, I think what you're saying is. And I'll. I'm going to talk about John's daughter for a second because at his celebration of life, this is what John loved doing. And it was being generous. And, you know, his daughter's, I believe she's 14, names Reagan, and she was speaking at A celebration of life. And she goes, you know, I'm not even really sure what my dad did, but the best way I can sum it up is that he just, he just helped people love on people. And so when you talk about it that way and you felt that that's love in action, that's. That's what generosity really is. It's love in action. And so that's what John did. And, you know, John did it through gifting, but one of the ways that he did it through gifting, but it wasn't the only way. You know what, One of the things that we're trying to do is spread this thought of generosity. And generosity doesn't. It can be a phone call, just, you know, a random act of kindness. You know, it's just really loving on people in a way that is authentic to you and getting outside the scope of. I've, you know, I've got to do this with. Because it's not about. This method of doing business isn't about roi. It's not about return on investment. It's about return on relationship. And Mark, look, I hope you read that book. I hope you are encouraged. I hope you. I'm a big study, practice, teach person. When you study things that matter, you practice things that matter, and then you share things that matter. Honestly, I hope that messaging resonates with you. You're going to jump into that book and you're going to see something, and maybe you'll want to share the book with somebody, man. That when we can encourage and inspire somebody to build a business through the philosophy of generosity, through curiosity and gratitude, man, how fun is that? So, anyway, I'm rambling. I don't even know if I answered your question.

Amazing. I wish I had read the book before Christmas. And because what I did for my. My partner Lainey, is a typical gifting mistake, because this is someone I live with, I know intimately, but she likes gadgets. So I went and I bought her an ember mug, which is a. One of those mugs that keeps your coffee at the ideal temperature. Now she has this coffee ritual where she gets her coffee and it takes her hours to drink, and she keeps putting it in the microwave. I thought, oh, this is going to be fantastic for her. Now guess who uses that ember mug every day? I do. So I actually bought my own gift because I was, you know, my heart was open at the time, but I.

Thought it was cool.

And I thought, oh, I could use this too, because when I make this thing called Kamadas, this coffee alternative, it gets cold really fast. But, no, I'll give it to Laney. And she likes her ritual. And so now what I discovered was a lot of the gifts that I get are things that I like that I think someone else would like. So if I had known a little bit more about giftology, I would like the Christmas would have been way better, would have made way more impactful, way more personal. And it's, again, to your point, it's not necessarily about the budget. It's about that connection in that second layer of thoughtfulness. So can you tell us a story about how you've implemented giftology in your own business? And it's kind of give us like a giftology case study, if you will.

You know. Yeah, I'll share. Here's a. Here's one near and dear to me. There's a gentleman by the name of Aaron Walker. And Aaron's been a huge mentor for me. He runs an organization called Iron Sharpens Iron. And I spent several years in a. In a mastermind group with him, and he just had an amazing impact. He's the one that encouraged me to. To get the coaching practice up and running, which ultimately led to the connection and why John and I were connected and. But, you know, there's just a. I made a list of people that I just wanted to say thank you and what they Meant. So John and his team have this amazing catalog of gifts. So I reached out to the giftology team. So this is just transparent. So as we were building this partnership, I said, guys, I love what you're doing. How do I. How do I do more of it? And candidly, I'm not a good gift giver. Just ask my wife. I'm not. But I wanted to do something for Aaron. And anyway, so I reached out and so we came up. They've got this thing called an artifact mug. And they gave me a set of questions, and I had to answer the questions. And then I had to reach out to some people that were, you know, and basically listed some questions about them. And I sent it back to him. And what they do is they've got an artist who I've gotten to meet, his name, these amazing guy, but they crafted this mug. Now, this mug literally tells the story of Aaron, what he does, the impact that he's had on the community, what he's built, what he values. You know, he's got a couple Bible verses that are really important to him. They were engraved on the mug. This is a handcrafted mug. And, you know, the mug isn't cheap. It's several thousand dollars that they sent to Big A and his family. And, you know, I get a phone call now, by the way, this is one of the things with giftology as is. You know, they say usually, but it just happened to be. The timing was right around Christmas is when it was finished. Wasn't intended to be a Christmas gift, but it was. And I get a phone call, it's Christmas Eve. And candidly, the mug had taken a little while to get completed. So I thought Big A was just calling for anything. So he leaves me a message. And the message was, well, Brian, you done did it. You got everybody in the house crying here. And the. The presentation was amazing because the same box that you got, imagine opening that up and the artist is saying, here's what all the scenes on this mug mean. There's like five or six scenes, the verses are woven in, and there's a word there that represented Big A. And Big A took it, shared it with his family, shared it with his mom. And he just. He was. He's like, brian, I've never had anything like this. And you know what? The words, the way he felt was the least. I mean, it was one. I mean, I wish I could magnify that. I know what he. It meant to him, but I was so. I felt so grateful that he could see the Impact that. That he was worth, at least for me, putting the time into getting that and then the team doing it. So it's just. It was a win, win. And so we had. And you know what? We'll continue to talk, and I have no idea what's going to happen, but I love the guy and I want him to know that. And he's been amazing for. And it was just a way to acknowledge the relationship, so. Because I don't ever want to lose that one.

Yeah. I mean, unbelievable. And I think if you're listening, you think, oh, it's, you know, I don't have a couple thousand dollars. Again, to your point, I don't think it's about the monetary aspect of the gift. And so can you kind of break down what makes a great gift?

You know, there is. There's several things out there. If you go listen to John, there's gonna be two things I'm going to talk about. What John said was there are two, really two things on the giftology side that he would say. Number one, always take care of the inner circle if you can. So if there's somebody, you know, whether it's the wife or whether it's.

Maybe.

An assistant, that really kind of steers right, you know, make sure that the. The individual, the influential individual is, you know, get to know them. John's got some great stories about how he loved on the inner circle, and that opened up doors. You know, John would send people things like, you know, he would do something for the kids about a Disney trip that was coming up, and they would take that stuff. I mean, he just made sure that there were experiences around the people that were closest that were loved on. And whether it was, you know, an artifact mug or whether it was, you know, even the cutlery, he would send cutlery. You know, he was the number one sales guy at Cutco, and he loved the kitchen items because that's where everybody gathered. So he would personalize things and they would be in the kitchen. And it's amazing what the conversations that would happen there. So that was, number one, take care of the inner circle. And the other one that I loved was, which was always something he said. You know, one of his principles was it's not, you know, it's not. It's not the least, you know, don't do the least amount you can do. Do the mo. It's not what. It's not the least you can get away with. It should be the most that you can afford. So he's like, don't try to just skimp on things. If you're gonna give, give abundantly to fewer than rather than spreading it out amongst the masses. So he's like, you know, make an impact with, with your giving and it doesn't have to number, you know, so whatever your marketing budget is, focus it and throw it into relationships that really matter. And that was impactful. So anyway those were two kind of tenements of the gifting side of things and that are covered in all that is actually one of the things we try to do is help people inside of rich relationship society. If they want to use gifting, awesome. But it's really, you know, and John was just great at connecting with people and much of the how he built it and it wasn't just gifting, it was connecting with people, making them feel seen and heard, you know. And so we kind of, he and I built a process together that kind of shows that there's a four step process you can take people through to help them engage their relationships so they think about you and what you do. So anyway, I could go on and on Mark. It's a, it's a great way to do business. It's so fulfilling.

So yeah, and that's, and that's the part I think that is so special is that you can do business transactionally. And a simple, thoughtful, well intended gift takes that relationship to the next level to the point where the person does want to reciprocate because it makes them feel good and so they want to refer business to you. And so in this very busy world, this is a really powerful way to break through the noise. And especially if there's someone that is very difficult to reach, like a Cameron Herald for example. And one gift can accelerate that relationship overnight because you got him and how many people in his life are just asking, asking, asking and they're not giving first with this abundant loving heart and those people that can do that and, and when you have a company like Giftology, you can do it at scale, make a big impact. And so we all know that the best customer is the current customer and you don't want to have to keep getting new customers. So if you can either get the current customer to continually to work with you or refer more business to you, that is the best business for your marketing and your marketing budget. So it's, it's a really powerful, really powerful just way of going about life. And I think, you know, again, I can only imagine that celebration of life for John Rulin's life and how many lives he impacted, how Many people he touched because the other day we can't take it with us. And so what a beautiful legacy as well to be that generous and that impactful in all your rich relationships. So, Brian, I went on a little soapbox there, but I do want to ask you for your tip of the week. A website, a resource, a book, something else actionable for the auto passive income listeners to go improve their businesses, improve their lives. Your mentorship has been invaluable, but I want to ask for one more.

All right, well, we had a real conversation before this, so I'll let you take yours. And. But one of the reasons that I was really. Mark, one of the reasons I really respect you is that, you know, we were talking, you were talking about your podcast and this tip of the week and one of the things you talk about, books. I love that. So a mentor of mine, Jim Rohn, once said, if you want to reach the things on the top shelf of life, you got to stand on the books you read. So I'm a big proponent of that. And it's really, that's another little subtle, inexpensive way to build relationships is just to share books with, with relationships. So. But you know, a couple that I, a couple that I'm really fascinated with anything Donald Miller, I've been digesting several of his. I don't know if you've heard of Donald Miller.

Sure.

Story brand. Story Brand. I tell you, it's one of the great things because he conveys ways to tell stories that help you connect with people. That's what I love about Donald's stuff. You can, you can walk through his frameworks and you connect with people whether you're trying to put a website together or whether you're trying to have a conversation. So yeah, I would say storybrand and any, any of his made simple books just simplify the art of communication, which is one of the other things that really helps drive, drive relationships. So I'll leave it with that. I could give you. I could probably go through another list of books, but anything. Donald Miller is phenomenal. I love it.

I love it. Well, I want to thank you for taking the time and sharing the John Rulin story supporting giftology, providing us with a framework to not just grow our, our businesses through referrals, through gifting, but also really make ourselves have richer lives. So, Brian, thank you so much for taking the time.

Yeah. Do you mind if I give one more resource? If anybody heard anything here today, you.

Know, the Brian McCrae Ways is to be super generous. I'm surprised like You I have a feeling it's going to be like 10 more resources but sure, one more.

This one, this one. So if you go to giftology.com RWA referrals without asking there will be, there's a free mini email course that, that you can, that you can sign up for. It's free there. It'll give you some of the, some of the basic principles at of ways to build, grow and scale rich relationships and so you can go there, you can start to implement some of that stuff and have an amazing impact on your business.

So I love it. I love it. My tip of the week is going to be go to somebody's social media feed and pay attention to what they like to do. So if you have a customer, their important customer or some relationship, it doesn't matter the relationship go on their feed, see what they're passionate about, take that passion, put it in the chat GPT and say pretend that you're John ruin and you have you know, 20 years of experience in professional gifting based on these persons passions in life from their social media feed. Recommend me three gifts at these different budgets and see what that.

I love it Mark. That right there is a perfect example. And one of the other things that John was always it was using, using technology to enhance relationships and you just did that. So I love it.

So awesome. Well, I want to thank the listeners, remind you the only way I'm gonna get Brian McRae back is if you do three little favors. Follow rate review the podcast, send us a screenshot of that review to support TheLangic.com and I'd love to gift you a signed copy of Dirt Rich or even Dirt Rich too if you already have Dirt Rich. But even if you don't want the books, it helps get you better guests. Because guests like Brian go on the podcast, they want to see how many reviews we have before that. They're going to invest their time and energy into providing their wisdom. So do it for yourself. All right Brian, are we good man?

It's been a blessing. Mark, thank you for your heart of this and thank you for the invite. It's been a, it's been awesome. Thank you.

Thank you Brian. And let freedom reign. Thanks everybody.

Thanks for listening to the Art of Passive Income podcast. Are you ready to learn how you can start building a passive income without renters, rehabs, renovations or rodents? Schedule a free consultation@thelandgeek.com training let freedom ring.