How To Create Highly Effective Content Marketing

Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the land geek with your favorite niche real estate website, www.thelandgeek.com. and I'm really excited for today's guest because he really can help us with something that I know a lot of people seem to struggle with, which is marketing and sales and working your list. But before we talk to our guests, I'd be remiss if I didn't properly introduce my co host, the brain, the professor, the land geek flight school sherpa, Scott Todd from scotttodd.net landmodo.com and most importantly, if you're not automating your Craigslist and your Facebook postings, posting domination.com thelandgeek Scott Todd how are you, Mark?

I'm great.

How are you?

I'm amped. I'm amped.

That's a nice kind of pun there, isn't it for our guest?

It is. It is. Our Guest is the CEO of ampmycontent.com Daniel Danes Danes hut in Auckland, New Zealand. Is that right, Daniel?

I'm actually down in the Bay of Plenty, which is just about an hour from Auckland, but it's on the beach, so a little bit nicer.

So Daniel Danes Hutt, whom has now lost all complaining privileges, is a self confessed marketing nerd. He has a background in direct response advertising but ironically is a content marketer that people know him for. And he had the top 10 content of all time on inbound.org and top content of 2017, 2018 on growth actor on growth actors. His Viral Post generated $3 million in client requests in two weeks. And of course, he's living the dream on the ocean. Daniel Danes hut welcome.

Thank you so much for having me, both of you. And yeah, I'm excited to kind of nerd out and kind of give any advice I can that helps your audience.

Yeah, yeah. Let's just kind of rewind a bit. And just for everybody that, you know, doesn't know the terminology, how would you describe content marketing? What is content marketing?

It's literally about creating content assets that help you communicate with your audience. So it's been going on for years. So did you know that diamonds were never traditionally the actual ring of choice when getting married? It was through content marketing that they had a lot of diamonds and they wanted to sell them and they used content marketing to make that happen. Same as the Mitchell and Star restaurants and things. It was actually a guide by Mitchell and tires of restaurants on the roadways because if people were going and driving to restaurants, they would Wear their tires down and get more customers who may evolve over time. So it's not something that's brand new, but it's about creating assets to help your business. The reason I like it, if you've ever worked in sales or retail or anything like that, you have the same conversations again and again and again. And so you can actually put those conversations into content to help you make sales. If you do it from an SEO perspective, you can get traffic and things like that. And if you're a bit of a nerd like I am, you can also run paid traffic to it to have those conversations for you. So you can create that passive sales and things like that.

All right, great, Great. Scott. Todd.

Hey, Mark.

So, Daniel. So, you know, basically, is this really any different than kind of, you know, educating the marketplace? Like, you know, using. Using your knowledge to educate a marketplace on maybe how you're different or, you know, you know, like, what I'll do sometimes is I'll. If I'm selling land in a particular area, I might do educational videos on that area or educational content like, you know, like you said, like the stuff that people ask all the time, hey, who could I use for a surveyor? I'll use this or that. So, you know, is that really the leverage point is that, you know, you, ideally, you create this content, maybe you run some ads towards that content, and, you know, it kind of generates people's interest in what you have, and then you start to grow your list from that.

Totally. There's so many additional benefits. So again, it has those conversations for you. But if we want to try and sell anything, you know, we need to have trust. There has to be belief that the thing is of value to the person. There has to be some kind of authority. If you're working online, you can just go anywhere. So having those assets, like you said, you know, which is the best surveyor to hire and things like this, it builds trust in you and reciprocity to move forward. So even if that person doesn't even work with you, they'll recommend you to their friends and things like that. And it's just about, again, it's trying to automate specific interactions that we're having so we don't have them all the time and at scale with groups of people that we couldn't talk to every day if we tried to, because, you know, there's only so many hours in the day.

Yeah, absolutely. And Scott and I are both all about automation and scale and being as effective and efficient as possible. So that being said, if we Just reverse engineer it. What would be some of the worst advice you see or hear given in your area of expertise of content marketing?

So my viewpoint, my manifesto is quite controversial to what a lot of people want. Do a lot of people churn out high volume? So if they think of content marketing, they think of it from an entertainment point of view, or they're trying to get SEO benefits so they create as much content as they can as fast as they can. The issue is that we're copying businesses that are a different business model. So media sites, they get paid for eyeballs on adverts, basically. So they want the same people to come back again and again and again. And so they'll write a hundred articles about a topic just to keep entertaining you and bringing you back. Now, if we're reading those media sites, and that's the examples that we see, we start copying that. But the thing is, it doesn't get traffic, it doesn't get new traffic, it doesn't convert. Most websites will convert 2% of their audience into a lead. My lowest conversion is 17% and my highest is 83%. So pieces of content that are converting readers, 83 out of 100 become a subscriber when 2 out of 100 subscribers become customers. You know, you now have a flywheel to actually bring people in and convert and things like that. So my whole thing is it's a lot of people, a lot of freelancers, business owners, are time poor. And so if you don't have a lot of time to invest in this, you are better off promoting the content that you have than you are creating new content simply because of the additional benefits. You go out to new channels, you build links, it builds organic traffic. You're having the same conversation with people who are like your current customer rather than going out and having a different conversation with the same person, if that makes sense.

It does. So you're taking one piece of really strong content and you're going to repurpose it for lots of different channels or market segments, Is that correct?

Yeah, it's. Sometimes it's not even repurposing it, it's simply just getting it out there in front of more people. So I have some content that converts into customers really well, rather than writing a new piece or repurposing the piece, I just need to get it in front of more people who are like my current customers. And if you can do that at scale or if you can do it profitably, it means we can have that passive income model kind of thing.

Right. So what Are the elements of a good piece of content where you can convert at such a higher rate, where the average is, you know, you know, kind of a shotgun approach, like they're gonna hit somebody, but it might be only 2%.

That's it. And I think it's because in some industries the search terms are so high that people are happy with that. Because if you're Getting on average 100,000 visitors, 2% is pretty good, right? You're going to make enough sales to live off of. But if you're not the market leader or you're not dominating, or if you're a small industry, you know, like say you were selling land in a particular town and there's only a small population and then a small population who want to buy and things like that, you know, you need to be more effective at what you do. So I would like to like to say that we're some kind of evil geniuses, but it's not. I make a lot of mistakes and I also read from a lot of people who are smarter than me. So Jonah Berger, he wrote a book called Contagious why things go Viral, why we work as a society and why we share things. From that we can figure out why content gets social shares. But that's all well and good, but if you want to get traffic that gets links and conversions, we also need to look at content that does that. So Buzzsumo is a website, a content website. They did research of over a million articles and they looked out of that. Such a small percentage actually had links. Excuse me. So by looking at these pieces of content that are most effective, most effective at shares, most effective at links and opt ins and things, we start to notice a correlation and overlap between them. And it's usually content that has authority and trust, content that builds value, content that builds reciprocity, Things like this. If we simplify that it is content that's usually a thousand to three thousand words, content that is actionable, so it actually gives advice and it shows how to take action. Content that is well perceived so it doesn't look cheap, things like that, which is easy enough, it just means adding images and things. Content that has a next action to take. So if you use like a specific opt in method, it adds value to the content. Sounds complex, it really isn't. And I've got an article on this so they can share how to take an old post and how to improve it to make it more effective. And we even do a comparison so you can see two articles that have been changed. But if you just tick those boxes, you know, longer, more detailed content, adding value, giving actionable advice. People will share that, they'll link to it. People who have the ability to link to you will do it, things like that. So with anything, with content, especially if you're going to run promotional paid ads, the content has to be good, but in reality you should only be creating good content anyway. A 500 word piece, because you felt the need to create something, shouldn't be on your website if it's not going to convert in some way. There's SEO benefits and there's also, if you've got a lot of content on your site and no one is linking to it, what will happen is it'll actually lower the traffic of your rankings for content that's really good. So you're almost better off deleting it than you are keeping it, things like that. So my argument is to do less, do it well. And then, you know, you can create a lot of content, but you have to be methodical and you have to promote it and it has to get a conversion as well. So the reason we get such high opt in rates is we, we try and think of the next logical step that an audience, a reader, would want to take because if we're not providing that, they go elsewhere to find it. So let's say that you're talking about how to find a surveyor and how important it is to actually to find one for your land and things like this. If you only talked about it, why it's important, they're gonna go Google for people to, you know, or they're gonna go find a competitor who talks about it, who teaches it. Whereas if you had actionable steps, okay, well, you want to look in your area, then you want to look for specific reviews and then you want to find different referrals and things like that. You want to get quotes from three or whatever, I don't know the whole process. But just as an example, that's going to make your content actionable. Now if you had say, a checklist that they could download so they could take that while they're doing it, the opt in rate is going to be huge because it's something that they immediately want after reading that thing. You've got them excited to take action. Now I'm giving them an action. So those are the two main parts of effective content. High opt ins.

Yeah, I mean, I'd love to argue any part of what you said, but it is so, it's so true and it's something that this is A what you just said, if you're listening to this right now, I would go back and rewind it and listen to it again because Daniel, in about three minutes, just gave you the algorithm to creating a tremendous, valuable piece of content. So. And Scott, I know you're all about less but better, kind of like Greg McCune, essentialism. So, Scott, Todd, what are your thoughts? And if you look at. Let's just pick on Land Moto, right? How are you implementing that strategy?

Well, what we do with Land Moto is we don't. I mean, like, what we'll do is we will take areas and we will kind of dig down into it. So we'll try to get more information about areas to try to get more SEO. You know, like, you know, if someone's looking at accounting name, we try to get SEO around that. And I think that there's other ways that we can take it to kind of expand on that piece, you know, other things that we can do internally. I mean, like me, I prefer video, you know, like, over reading. So I'm just kind of curious, Daniel, like, how could I implement that with a video strategy? I mean, I guess I could have someone write some content, or I could write some content, but really be more leaning more heavily on the video, because obviously video has a very important piece. And I mean, I guess what I could do is I could use that video as kind of like the next steps, but also to kind of educate the marketplace that way. Is there any difference? Like, is video bad?

No, no. The big issue is that Google can't always fully understand what you're talking about in a video, and so you won't always rank for specific things. Now, I'll give a cheat code. When I write an article, I will usually have a structure and a template, but I will record myself talking as if it's a conversation to someone else. So it's a video. And then I will transcribe that, because I can have a thousand words on a page that I can edit within half an hour kind of thing, because some people find it easier to talk. Some people find it easier just to write. But there is our audiences. They are. Some people are visual, some people like to read, and some people like to listen. So it would be easy enough to create a video and then transcribe it, and you can use that from there, especially because of those benefits where Google doesn't really know everything that's in your video. They can't track it and things. So we would be missing out on potential keywords and things. That will stop us from getting traffic. But again, I'm not opposed to it and it's on my to do list. Actually I am thinking of putting videos at the start of my page because it can increase dwell time. The longer someone's on a page, the more Google sees it has value they're not bouncing off and things like that. YouTube is the second largest search channel as well. So you know, you put an embedded YouTube video in there that's going to get more searches, which is going to get YouTube traffic, which is sending people to you as well and things like that. But I'm not opposed to it at all. It's. Everyone has their different skill set but until Google can fully understand all of your content, then you run the risk of missing out if you've ever used like an audio transcription so service. And it doesn't make sense for a lot of it. It just misses certain elements. Right. So imagine that's the same AI that's trying to listen to your video and figure out what the topic is and what you should rank for. You know, it's not going to have that. Plus if you transcribe it underneath, suddenly it's not just a really easy to consume video, but it's an actionable document under there as well. So then it's like you're going into all those details and showing how to do the things. I hope I answered the question. I'm three coffees at this point.

No, you did, you did guess good.

No, no, it's great. And I think that it's really sort of important to think in those terms of value and you know, and making it actionable, making it very shareable, making it easy to digest, you know, just being overall very valuable. So what would be some of the most gifted or recommended books that you, you have right now as far as helping your clients get to the next level with their content?

One of the biggest things for me is direct response. Advertising is all about getting a specific measured result from an action. So many people do marketing and advertising without a call to action. So you get people to your site and you give them nothing to do. So learning more about direct response will help you in all aspects. In your face to face, in your emails, in your content, in your videos. It also, it's, it's not just a numbers based game. It's about being empathetic and understanding your audience. Because if you can understand why they want to take an action and where they are, it's much easier then to get them to take the action that makes Sense. So I've got a book here by a guy called Claude Hopkins.

Oh, sure.

So scientific advertising, if you've never gone into any of it, is going to be huge. I have, I have a bookshelf of five rows of like psychology books and things just on the side here. That's going to help you more than anything else simply because you'll understand the principles. A lot of people when we talk about marketing, they think it's about white noise and being seen and being loud. And so if we copy that, we end up having to do 40 social media posts and this and this and this. But if we actually sit down and measure, it does nothing for us. My big thing is about finding the levers that have the most effect on your business so that you can step out of the business. So, for example, link building has no results at first, but then long term it ends up driving hundreds of thousands of dollars to you. But you have to put in the work. Content on its own doesn't provide the ROI on its own, so you have to supplement it.

So when you say link building, what does that mean?

So how Google SEO is not as complex as people make it out to be. Google wants to have a good user experience. So if you search for something in Google, they want to provide you the best possible result and they do that based on a voting system. So if a website links to that resource, then it goes up in the rankings and whoever gets the most or the most relevant is the one that's recommended and they get the lion's share of traffic. So if the reason I'm going to give you an example, I've got a friend of mine who runs a phishing blog and he's got about 6,000 or 8,000 followers on his Facebook group. So when he writes an article and he puts it in the fishing blog, he'll do about $2,000 in sales via T shirts and paraphernalia and stuff. Stuff that's on day two, on day three and four and five and six, he doesn't make any sales because that content is no longer leveraging or making any traction. We looked into it and the article that he wrote that's getting these sales, the competing article, the number One that gets 10,000 searches a month, only had four websites linking to it. So if he got five websites linking to it, suddenly he's going to make more sales every single week. And it's not that difficult to do. It is going out and finding people who write about this topic. So it's a fishing blog, you Know, it might be he might go to tourist websites, he might go to other fishing blogs, he might, you know, talk about, go to fishing podcasts, talk about these things. And it builds links which then builds goodwill, which drives traffic, which helps with organic rankings. And because the content is more effective and it collects the lead, you know, he can create repeat sales and things like that. A lot of this stuff is simple. It's the subtleties, it's the small things that make the biggest difference. It's just knowing what they are and where to focus your time.

I love it. Scott. Todd.

You know, again, I'll go back to my own experience. Like, you know, I know that that's a very good strategy. It's a very slow strategy, right? You know, so that's, this is really a two prong approach, right? Like there's a long term thing you can do and then the short term, the short term is always you can run paid traffic to it. The long term situation or the long term deal here, the long play, if you will, is really just to build that link building strategy. Okay, Daniel, here's the deal. How do I do it without doing it? Like, I don't want to do that stuff. I don't want to. I don't want to write the content. I don't want to. I don't mind being the video guy, but I don't want to write the content. I don't want to go out and do the link building and all the other. I don't want to do the work, man. I want to be like you, surfing at the ocean. What do I do?

Honestly, I would hire internally, a lot of people will say to run agencies and things like this, which, yes, they're going to get results. But the best person to sell your product is someone who works in your business. The best person to promote a piece of content is the person who wrote that piece of content. Things like that. Because the same, likewise, the best person to design an ad for an article is the person who wrote the article. Because you know who you're trying to communicate with, you know what the pain points and things like that. So we hired, when we first started with our team, I hired an intern because here in New Zealand they have to do work placement to graduate kind of thing. And that one intern alone is worth six times what we actually pay them because they help promote the post, they help get in front of people and things like that. So for example, you could hire someone in who has an interest in what you do. They could transcribe the post they can edit it to those tick boxes so it works. They can then go out and reach out to people. And you're totally right in what you said in that it takes time for SEO and things to kick in. That's why I recommend I don't just talk about one promotion channel. I'm about all promotion channels. So I teach our students to start running paid ads before they even do SEO. Why? Because if you've got a small ad running and starting to scale up and it's profitable, that's getting you leads and sales while you are building those links and things. Ideal world, you've got someone doing both. You know, you've got two different people doing it. For example, my article right now has I think 115 unique linking websites. That's over 1000 backlinks. But Google so far has only found 40 of them. I know they exist because I created these things, so I'm not seeing the traffic difference there. But if I reach number one for this article, statistically I know it's worth $200,000 a year to my business. It's on the conversion rate, Conversion rate to sale and things like that. I'd have to be insane not to do the SEO work for it. But at the same time, yes, we need to be making sales in the meantime. Right? Which is why we're running paid ads. And it's, it just makes sense. Also because we also, we're promoting that post, you know, we're not writing anything new. We're literally just keep bringing people back to that piece of content. So ideally I would say hire someone internally and then go from there. I don't run any agencies for any other services. We just hire internally for a specific task with the highest leverage and then we go from there. I hope that makes sense. Like I say, I am three coffees deep. So just rein me in if I go off on tangents.

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, how do you sort of bridge the gap when you've got a, you know, a smaller company and they don't know their numbers, Right. So they don't know their conversion rate. It's a new piece of content or it's a, it's. They just don't know. And so how do they go about taking a piece of content, putting it on, let's say Facebook, running paid ads to it and then not knowing their conversion rate with it? It's, you know, so basically, in a long winded way, when am I ready to run paid ads to a piece of content? And what needs to be in place before I do that.

So the content's got to be good and it's got to convert. If you are brand new and you don't have any audience whatsoever, then it is going to be a little bit scary because you don't know what's working and what isn't. But the quickest way to find out is to do the work right. Ideally, if I'm going to run paid ads to a piece of content, I will have sent it out to my email list and done a little bit of organic promotion first so I can get benchmarks of how it performs, just so I can get an idea. Also, I do a lot of research before we even write a post, so I know it's going to resonate. Like we don't write anything that is a flop. You've got to know your business numbers before you do any kind of marketing or traffic. Ideally, you can use generic benchmarks, 2% conversion to subscribe, 1% conversion to sale, things like that, to give you an idea of what you should aim for. But then obviously you try and get better than that thing. And this goes back to your podcast that you did with Grant as well, is most ads will start off at a loss. Almost all ads will start off at a loss. It takes a little bit of time for the software to get running and things like that. But it's also, people are weird. The thing that they tell you is important isn't always the actual real reason behind why it's important and things like that. So we have to test variations of the ad to get to the point where it is most effective. So the best image, the best headline and things like that, it gets the most clicks across. We also know we have to know our numbers, because if we know how much a visitor is worth and then a subscriber and then a sale, we can go from there. So we recommend around 20% of customer lifetime value as a maximum, maximum, maximum amount you should be prepared to pay because, like, obviously in reality, you're going to make sales way before then. But it's like, let's be honest here, if this person is worth $20,000, you know, you should be willing to pay X amount to get to that point. Because if you can get one for that price, the next one's going to cost less and the next one's going to cost less and less and less and less. You're investing in an asset to actually grow from there. It also gives you that benchmark of maximum you're willing to pay for a subscriber because then when you're running an ad and it goes to content and you get a subscriber for $3, but you can pay six, boom, you know, it's profitable right now, and your sales cycle might be 30 days. But you say, I'm happy to run this ad and as is, because I know statistically for 100 leads, we're gonna make a sale or whatever, you know, and it's. It's knowing these data points, and a lot of people don't put in the effort to know these things. And they also are so scared of running ads, and they don't know they start at a loss that when they finally are brave enough to do it, they spend all their budget in a day, you know, kind of thing like that. So it's starting small. It's 10 until it's most effective. I'll give you my process in a second so that it's the most effective. And then from there, it's scaling it.

Slowly, you know, scaling it slowly.

Every channel has. Every marketing channel has benefits and weaknesses. SEO is great for free traffic, but it takes months and months and months. Paid ads are great, but they can burn through cash real fast. Things like that. Ads. Ads will do well, and then they'll stop performing and you have to pause them and put them back on, stuff like that. For example, with Facebook, when you're scaling, there's specific techniques that you've got to use to start spending more money and keep the same baseline results and stuff. Because if you suddenly triple the budget per day, it's going to break the advert and things. Don't worry about that. You can get started for like five bucks a day, and you can actually make a profit. So right now we've got an ad running for $117. We've done 17,000, 16,000 in sales.

Not a bad ROI.

It's not bad. Like, obviously we got to accommodate for churn and things like that, but, like, at $5 a day, that's fine. You know, it's not. I'm not even going to bother looking at the performance. I just check it at the end of the day to make sure it's all running. You know, that's the key as well. So when it comes to testing an advert, we have to test the different elements, the image, the headline, the text, stuff like that. And the reason, that's why I like written ads rather than video ads, is because to test all those different variations, I've got to go back in the studio, I've got to record and stuff. Whereas I could just click edit and change some text or swap an image, things like that.

Right, right. And I know, I know there's software now that makes it really easy to test.

So A B testing, there's two types of testing. There's AB testing where you test one element and you test different versions. So maybe you test different images. There's multivariate testing where you test every possible connotation of each variation. So every different headline, every different image, you've got like 52 ads running at once. If we're going to be nerdy about it, you've got to run an ad to about 10,000 visitors per ad to get statistical significance. Maths is right. Not only that, 52 ads, 10,000 visitors and things. It's going to cost you a fortune if you don't run any ads. It's the fastest way to find a winning ad. But if you're just getting started, you're going to blow all your budget, find a winning ad and have no money to spend on the winning ad. So what I like to do instead is I create a focus group of about 1,000 to 10,000 people who are my ideal audience for this article. And then we go like the Mad Men days with that focus group. I will run one ad with four variations. So I'll just do image first because the image is the first thing that shows up in the newsfeed that gets their attention. And if the image isn't getting a click, doesn't matter what else you change because the image, if it doesn't stop them in their tracks when they're scrolling, then you won't get an action to be taken. So we'll test that with this ideal audience and then we find the winning image and we remove the rest and we keep that winning image for all further tests. So every test after that is improving again and again and again. You spend $4, you get 1 back, you spend 3, you get 1 back, you Spend 2, you get 1 back and so on. And we're seeing incremental improvement. And because the content is good and the opt ins are good, we are making sales. But we're getting to the point where we're going to get more profitable. So I'll test these different variations until I've got an ad that converts from best audience. Now the more specific you get, the more it costs to advertise, to supply and demand. A lot of people would stay at that point and that's a mistake because they can't hit their margins because the Specificity is tight. So what we do instead at that point is we broaden the audience to maybe people in a specific area who are most like our customer. And then we just let Facebook run by broadening the audience straight away. It's cheaper to run because it's less specific. Facebook uses a machine learning program. It picks up on data points and interactions and things that are similar to your customer or your opt in but you would never even think of using as a targeting option. And the more people who are similar who opt in, it's Facebook suddenly says, hang on a minute. Instead of showing it to them, these people who don't enjoy it and have a bad experience, they're the wrong people. Let's show it to these people. Guess what? Because your focus group are the people who actually started to perform, we know it works with this particular audience, more and more of them start to see it and it's nothing more to show Facebook itself is being more targeted without charging you more. As those people start to interact, the relevant score of the advert goes up and so they charge you less to show the advert now. So not only are they showing it to better people for cheaper, they actually start lowering the price because they care about user experience. They will even show your advert instead of a competitor who is paying more simply because your ad is giving a better experience to those people. Because they don't want people to leave. Right? They don't want people to stop using their platform. So just by doing those specific things, you're going to get to the point where you have an ad that runs for less, that is higher performing, that works even better. So I said, we're getting 50 cents email opt ins right now. It didn't start that way. At one point they were $9. But as the ad was tweaked, it dropped in price. As the AI starts to learn about those people and the relevance goes up, it drops and drops and drops. We have people sharing our advert and so they're actually seeing the advert and then their friends are opting in and things like that. So again, it's not complex. It's just understanding the platforms and the subtleties behind them all. And then you can scale from there. Now I could rightly I could just stay in paid ads, but what if Facebook dies? What if the ad account gets deleted and stuff? I have this content asset. It'd be crazy not to be building links or to go on podcasts or to share it in forums or, you know, there's so many different methods and if you've got a person on your team who could do that, so easy. I mean, just. Just scales up and scales up and scales up. Yeah, sorry. I really nerd out about this.

I love it. And I think it's what you're saying is super, super valuable and super helpful. And, you know, unfortunately, I mean, you know, I can nerd out about marketing all day long. I know Scott could as well. But we are at that point in the podcast where we want to put you on the spot. I think your mentorship has been fantastic. But we want to ask you for your tip of the week. A website, a resource, a book, something else, actionable, where the art of passive income listeners can go improve their businesses, improve their lives. What have you got?

Okay, so I'm going to give you three. If you want to learn, the biggest thing is to be empathetic to your audience, because the more you can understand them, the easier it is to write, the easier it is to sell and think things like that. If you want to learn about direct response advertising. Sorry, then I would say scientific advertising, pick up as a free PDF, I think. And then if you are new to business, there's a book called the Obstacle is the Way, which is about stoic philosophy, which, let's be honest, running a business, even once it becomes successful, can be stressful. Super helpful book that helps you through those things.

All right, those are great. Those are great. Scott. Todd, what's your tip of the week?

All right, Mark, this week I have a sales book. Everybody needs to learn more sales. Sales ideas. Check out this book. It's the Challenger Sale. The Challenger Sale. Taking control of the customer conversation. And basically it kind of ties into what we were talking about today. It's really about challenging the beliefs that customers have. Challenging. It's not necessarily about being relationship driven. It's really about challenging the way that they think, challenging what they know, challenging the way that they think about things, and kind of just reframing it into the customer's expectations so that you can really, really stand out and. And be different.

Is this Matthew Dixon?

Matthew Dixon. That's it.

The Challenger sale. Taking control of the customer conversation. Well, the reviews are crazy.

I know, right?

There really is. And it's on audible.

There you go.

Is this a good one to listen to or should you just buy it?

No, listen to it.

Listen to it.

Yeah.

All right, great, great. Tip of the week. Well, my tip of the week, great, as all of yours are, is the best one, because it's really going to move the needle in your business. Learn more about Daniel and what he can do to help you. Really put your marketing on steroids here. Ampmycontent.com ampmycontent.com he's got free downloads, got resources. I'm getting an exclusive video right now of us breaking down the promotion versus creation method with one of our readers and we talk about actual content. I'm getting access right now. It's tremendous and I love it. So learn more there. Daniel, are we good?

We are good. I will say this up front. I don't take clients on anymore because I get requests daily. I'm sorry. It's just, it doesn't fit in with what we want to do and I can. It doesn't scale for me. But all of our content, even if you just take the free content, is going to overthink the marketing. Your content, your opt ins. But yeah, thank you so much for having me, guys. I really appreciate it and yeah, I hope it was valuable to your listeners.

No, it was great. It was great, Scott. Todd, are we good?

We're good, Mark.

All right, well, I want to thank all the listeners and just remind them the only way, the only way we're going to get quality of guests like a Daniel Danes hut all the way from the beaches of New Zealand is if you do us three little favors. You got to subscribe, you got a rate, you got to review the podcast. Send us a screenshot of your review to supportlandgeek.com we are going to send you for free the passive income launch kit course which is normally $97. So please do that. Today's podcast is sponsored by flight school training. Learn more about flight school@thelandgeek.com training all right, Scott, are we ready to do this?

Ready, Mark, Ready. One, two, three. Let freedom.

We usually don't do at the same time.

No, I changed it up this time.

We did. It was nice. I feel freer.

We went back to the old school. That's what we used to do.

It's kind of cool. I mean it is kind of geeky. But I think we feel comfortable nerding out with Daniel Danes.

Why not?

Why not resonates with that. People think that you should be perfect the whole time. No. Put your imperfections and mistakes and things out there because people think makes you real and then they, you know, they're more likely to actually pay attention and buy from you and things like that.

Yeah, luckily for me, I'm so imperfect. It's just natural. So it's great. Well, I want to thank everybody again and see everybody next week.