HOW TO GENERATE SUCCESS WITH SHORT SALES IN REAL ESTATE

Hey, it's Mark Pudosigi, land geek with your favorite niche real estate website, thelandgeek.com and on this week's podcast, I've got a big deal and I'm really excited. Interviewer Scott Todd is out today, so I'm just going to get right into it and skip the pleasantries. Duane Bent Twyford is our guest. If you're not familiar with Duan, she is known as the queen of Short sales and is considered to be the nation's number one expert on short sales and foreclosures. She's written two bestsellers, Short Sale, Pre Foreclosure Investing and How to Sell a House When It's Worth Less Than the Mortgage. Tuan, welcome. How are you?

Hey, I love the energy. Mark, thanks for having me on your show today.

I am so excited to talk with you because this is a subject that we don't really hear much about. So let's rewind the tape and kind of tell us like, how did you become the queen of short sales?

Well, how far back do we want to go? We want to talk about the short sales or what led up to it. How far back do you want to go?

Let's go to. How did you get started in real estate?

Okay, so I was married, I had a baby, I was 30, my daughter was 8 months old. Her dad and I split up super unexpectedly. So basically I was broke, I was a single mom, I didn't have a husband. I really had never had any like real jobs, you know. And so it was sort of one of those like, kind of like a come to Jesus moment. Like am I going to get a job? I'm going to work for myself, how am I going to raise this kid? So it was one of those where I just really didn't know what to do. I was already 30 and honestly I had been, I'd been fired from quite a few jobs in my 20s, including was fired from Denny's, Denny's dad, like who works 10 at night till 6 in the morning and gets fired at like 3:45 in the morning. So I thought, okay, so that's clearly not the plan for me. And I honestly, you know, so this would have been, I'm in my 60s, so this would have been in the 90s. And you know, back then we had to use a classified section of the newspaper. And so I was looking for jobs and a lot of multi level marketing, just a lot of things. And I met these people and they said, oh, I buy houses, we fix them up, we Sell them. And I thought, okay, that sounds like fun. I could do that. Buy houses, decorate, sell them. That'd be perfect. And not realizing that rehabbing and decorating are not the same thing. So I got my first house, literally with the intention of just decorating it. Made it look amazing, selling it. And I'm going to go off and do real estate. And. And so I learned how to rehab. So rehabbed for a long time, about a decade. I rehabbed a long time. I started wholesaling, you know, flipping houses quicker, faster, money, didn't have to break my back anymore. And then deals got tight for a little while, and I really just started calling the banks and saying, hey, can you take off, you know, this fee and that fee and just asking for little bits of money off of the closing statements. And they were saying, yes. Like. Like, not even. Like, well, hang on, hold. It's like, okay, sure. Just boom. And so I always think more is better. So after I got three or four banks to knock off, you know, 2,500 fee, a $5,000 fee, that I wonder if they would take money off the mortgage. Let me try that. So I literally just, like, fell into it. I started asking them to take money off the mortgages, and they were like, okay, you know, let me call you back tomorrow. And. And there was no real term in the 90s. People were calling it short sales and discounting and shorting and like 10 different terms. So I started doing hundreds of them. And I actually went trademarked and coined the term short sales.

No kidding.

Yeah. I had the registered trademark on short sales as it relates to real estate investing. I always have to clarify that because short sales applied to the stock market. They apply to a lot of things. So I have the registered trademark for short sales as it applies to real estate investing. And I wrote a book, short sale pre foreclosure Investing. And then I was the queen.

You're the queen. So describe for us what is the definition of a short sale?

So short sale. And thanks for that question. That is a good question. Because a lot of people don't know. Exactly. So basically, I am finding homeowners that are in the foreclosure process. They own their home, the bank is in the process of taking their house away from them.

And maybe paid my mortgage and paid.

Your mortgage, and maybe six or eight months, you're on the foreclosure list at the public records, know where you find your tax things. The foreclosures are there, the divorces, the bankruptcies, the probate, people that haven't paid taxes, all the public records. And I find you. And I market to you. And through a conversation, I find out maybe you, mark, have a $200,000 house and you owe 200,000, and the bank's going to take your house. You can't keep it. You are. You're mentally, you want to move, you're done. But you owe what it's worth. So all the other investors just go pass and they walk off. Right.

There's no. There's no equity. There's no meat on that bone. Yeah.

I call the bank and I talk to this department called loss mitigation. I say, hey, I'm darling Toyford. I don't tell him I'm the queen of short sales. I don't tell them I wrote a book either. I have this deal, and I'd like to make an offer. I'd like to offer you maybe $100,000 as a full payoff that the bank has to approve it. And I send them in what I call a short sale package. Some low comms, a list of repairs, some things to warrant the bank taking such a giant discount, as well as a full letter laying out a timeline in if the homeowners would file bankruptcy. Cause, you know, bankruptcy, they can live there for like two years.

Right? Right.

If the bank saying no mortgage payments for two years, they have to pay real estate taxes, they have to pay for insurance, they have to pay, pay, pay, pay. You're going to get this much money here, or I can give you the same thing today. So the bank says, okay, we'll take 100,000 as a full payment. Now I get it for 100, and I can wholesale it, I can rehab it, I can keep it for a rental. I can move into it. So I have options to do something else with that property. So there's.

So now, is this going to be economically dependent? So I can imagine in 2008 to, say, 2011, you must have had your best years ever.

So many. And, you know, the thing is. And that is a good point, so in like 8, 9, 10. Yeah. People were. Banks were doing short sales like crazy people. And then the markets, like right now, your markets, houses are still selling. And, you know, but what people don't realize is you have to look at short sales from the bank's point of view. So if the market is. Houses are going on the market and they're quickly selling, but someone still owes what their house is worth, and it still needs $50,000 worth of repair, and the person files bankruptcy and does all These things, the bank is still going to be stuck with this property for all those quarterly reports, year end reports, the loan loss reserve, all these things. So if you can look at it from the, from the bank's point of view, there's never a time that banks don't do short sales. They always do them.

So, so in any market, there's always short sales.

Always.

Okay, so in every niche there's something that sucks about it. What sucks about short sales?

Well, I would say for, for me, I like to negotiate and I like to be like a super great negotiator and have like all my little, pull my little tricks out of the hat, you know. And so I think a lot of people are probably intimidated by the fact that they actually have to negotiate the deal with the bank. Because if you're not a negotiator or you're shy or you don't like confrontation, maybe you wouldn't like talking to the bank. But, but I look at it like, okay, I got Mark, the loss mitigation rep. I got my homeowner over here. I'm on the homeowner's side. This guy's going to agree with me and I'm going to show him offer A, offer B and offer C and he's going to agree and I'm going to win and I'm going to help this person. So I like the negotiating because I get to be a little bit snarky because I'm a super nice person. So I got to be a little snarky and like, I get it. I'd be hard now, like this. These are the numbers that, you know, they're going to file bankruptcy and this is it. And these are the card, card fact. And so I get a sort of, I think a little piece of my personality kind of gets to come out that wants to just show you how smart I am. So I like that part. But some people are like, oh, I called the bank and they said they don't do short sales. It's like, but the department is called loss mitigation. Like it looks, raising the title, that's what they do. And so I think some people, I would say the only main thing is that people would be intimidated by the bank. But what they don't recognize is that loss mitigation person is like a gatekeeper. They get paid a very minimum wage, they answer the phones, they just deal with one troubled house after another. That's all they do all day. And it's kind of like a crappy job within the bank. Like the average loss mitigation, that turnover, they only last like seven months.

Wow.

So when you can come in to this person and say, hey, listen, I did short sales for a living. I've got a package ready, I'm ready to close. I can be out of this in a week and get this off your books. Like, I'm your girl. They're so happy to hear, instead of me saying, so I took this seminar and I learned about short sales. I'm so excited to do my first one. And that person is thinking, I don't have time for you. So we don't do them. And they hang up on you. They just get rid of you because you don't know what you're doing. So it's the approach. I do this for a living. I've got a package ready, I've got money ready, I can close. Boom, I'll be your best friend. And the loss mitigation reps, they get paid bonuses for getting properties off the books. They get bonuses per property. They get them quarterly based on how many deals they were able to mitigate and get off of the books of the bank. So they are so excited to do a short sale as long as you don't call them up with, you know, 2,000 questions. Because they don't have time.

Okay. So I'm getting educated. I read your book, I take your course. I know everything there is to know about short sales. I know how to find the short sales. I know how to negotiate. I've got all my paperwork. I can get a package. I've got one problem, Dwan. I can't close. I don't have the money. Where am I going to get the money?

So normally, and this would again be based on where you're at in your investing career, if you were new, I would say wholesale the deal, wholesale to a rehabber or landlord. And you can find those. I mean, they're everywhere. You know, they have all those Rio groups, real estate investment associations. There's a million RIA groups around the country. So you can, you can find any deal, get it short sale, go to a REA group, and there'll be 20 people that will buy this house from you. So if you're new, new, let's just say you have a $200,000 house. The bank takes 100, you can wholesale it for 130, make 30 grand. You don't have to come up with any money, no down payment. You don't have to have any cash. You sell it to the landlord or the rehabber and the title company will creatively use that money to fund the entire deal.

And I can just assign the contract to my friend in the Rio group.

Basically. Yeah, it's not quite as simple as an actual assignment, but basically you can put it into LLC or land trust and just change the beneficial interest on it and just be done with it. So it's. It's very, very simple. And I really recommend for me, personally, when someone comes to me and they're new, like, fresh out of the gate new, like, wholesaling is a good place to start because you can wholesale these houses for 25, 30, $35,000 a deal, and you don't have to have money because the person you're selling it to has money. And then, you know, I used to rehab a lot. I mean, I've rehabbed. Gosh, I don't know. I've rehabbed hundreds of houses. So I used to rehab for a long time, and I still like rehabbing. I just don't do it very much because at this point, I'm like, too much physical work for me. I don't have time to follow up is not my thing anymore. But, you know, you can rehab them. I have moved into a couple that were just beautiful, beautiful houses and thought, this house for 50%. I'm moving into. Moved into a country clubhouse with a big pool and diving board and lived there for, like, five years. It was amazing.

Wow. Okay. So, I mean, I like the idea of just shuffling paper and making money. However, my next problem is scale. So I'm in Arizona, you're in Colorado and Florida. Now you're in Ohio. And I contact my local Wells Fargo and I see, oh, yeah, they've got a short sale in Delaware. And I can, you know, it's worth 200. I can get it for 100. Do I have to jump on a plane and look at this house?

I never. I haven't seen a house for so long. I think in the beginning, it's like you and I talked about when I was interviewing you. In the beginning, I feel like we all want to see the houses. We want to see the land, because we don't have the confidence to do deals that we haven't seen. So I tell people now, I say, listen, when you start working with me, you have to treat every single person, if they live down the street, treat every single person like they live out of state, because you would not fly out of state to look at a house, but you'll drive down the street to look at a house because it's down the street. So if you really want to be able to scale it and you want to be able to do more, you can have some bird dogs, you can have people in your office that do the short sales for you, the banks. Now, when you do a short sale, you can actually charge a negotiation fee. You can charge a relocation fee to relocate the homeowners. So you can build a lot of fees into there. So the person like me is making like the full $30,000 check is mine. And I got the bank to pay the homeowner 6,000 to move. I'm going to negotiate a 5,000 to negotiate. And I'm making. We're making bigger profits now than we used to because the banks will pay for so many things. So you can find houses anywhere. There's Rio groups everywhere. You could advertise anything on Craigslist, you know, anywhere. And people will call and will jump on it. So I always tell people you should do deals all over the country. Don't limit yourself to where you work.

Interesting, interesting. And as far as volume of deals, if I was just getting started and I was trying to convince, let's say, my spouse that, hey, I've got the ultimate side hustle, and I listen to the Juan and I can make X amount of dollars on this short sale. I'm going to do X number of deals this year, just wholesaling them, and I'm going to make this much in cash. How much can I realistically, if I go through the training, I do everything you tell me to do. How many deals can I realistically do my first year?

Well, you know what? And there's no set answer, but I tell everyone, if you can do one deal a month, one deal a month. Because a lot of people have a job, like you said, they have kids, they have this, they have that. They don't want to dive straight in without some kind of income. So I tell people, like, if you can make the. My average student makes 30,000 per deal. So if you can make 30,000 deal and you can do one deal a month, your first year, you made $360,000. That's a good amount of money. And then, so one person alone could probably do about 20 deals at a time. After that, you would have to have some assistance to help you with just, you know, like the VRs, like you, like the, the VA's. You'd have to have someone helping you with the paperwork. You have to have somebody organizing the closings, making sure the paper. You know, I call those. Oh, I lost the word they're like my coordinators, my closing coordinators. So you. So at some point, if you want to do more than a couple of deals on a monthly basis, you would need to have a few people to assist you with the paperwork, the closing, Making sure the rehabber has, you know, their stuff done, making sure everything's organized and lined up. But I would say for an average person, 20 deals a year is something that a person could do. Working for themselves and not having to have a bunch of people and not being overwhelmed with the amount of work and making a really super good living.

That's a really super good living.

That's super good. So you make a lot of money and you know, and the thing is like, you know, I'm up here in Ohio right now. Well, over here in Dayton they have houses that are like $45,000 now. Everything is based on what you're used to. So I live in the mountains. Well, just in Denver. Just in Denver, period. There's nothing, there's no such thing as a $45,000 house in Denver. Like the hood. The hood. Hood. Hood is 350,000.

Right.

So there are nothing, there's no 45, 50,000 houses. So you have a $300,000 house, you should make about 10 to 15% of the value of the house as your assignment fee. So if you're living someplace with 50,000 houses, you're probably going to make five grand a deal. Then this place with 300,000 houses, you're going to make 30 grand a deal. So I'm like, if you live someplace where the houses cost this much work, someplace where the houses cost more because it's the exact same work, it's the exact same phone calls. There's nothing different except the extra zeros at the end of your paycheck.

Right, right. So there's nothing to stop. I mean, I imagine there's not a lot of short sales for million dollar plus homes, but maybe there are.

Oh, there are a lot. You'd be surprised. A lot of people, you know, are all, they have all these big fancy houses and they get laid off for the economy. Like something like Covid comes along and these people can't afford these big old houses anymore. And so. And then of course the government did all of those forbearance agreements, like that gigantic 18 month forbearance agreement. So that's actually coming to a head because many of the people, like millions of people can't make up the back taxes or the back payments. They can't make up the back Payments. The bank has taken some of the back payments and putting on the back of the loan, and you pick up, but only if you had a job and you didn't live up unemployment and government stimulus. So the people that were like, woohoo, we don't have to work, we don't pay mortgages, we're just going to, like, ride this wave. Those people right now are losing their houses in droves because the bank will give you a chance, but you have to be worthy and prove you can make that payment that you didn't make the last 18 months. So there's a. There's kind of like a wave coming of people that are going to find themselves inadvertently in foreclosure behind on payments because they took advantage of that nationwide forbearance agreement, which I've been preaching on my podcast the whole time. Do not do that. It's a bad idea. Because when it comes to the end, you're going to end up getting yourself in trouble, maybe even accidentally.

Yeah. So what are the big gotchas in your. In your niche that people need to look out for?

Really? You know, there's really nothing. I mean, you can sell, you know. You know, you can sell any house, you can sell, you can any land. You can sell anything if it's priced right.

Right.

So it just has to be priced. I mean, I've sold houses where the roofs were falling in and mold was everywhere, and I. My very first house, and I did not know what this was at the time, my first house I ever did. She was a hoarder. And I had never been inside of a house of a hoarder. I didn't know what a hoarder was. And I just remember there was like a path through the house to the couch, and I was like, oh my God, what is this mess in here? Never seen it. Didn't know what it was. She had cats and dogs and she never let them outside. Like, the whole house was full of wine bottles and cigarette cartons and thousands of cans of cat food. And I mean, I don't even know how the woman lived there. So I actually, this was my first rehab. I got a bunch of doctors empty the house out, got this house fixed up. But now that show came on, I'm like, oh, buried alive. I know what that is. Now, I've done some houses like that. So I think that for anyone, it's a matter of just getting a price low enough for whatever condition it's in and what the market is calling for, for you to be able to wholesale it. Because like a landlord, someone that says, you know what, I'm going to keep this house and rent it for. They'll pay about 80% of the value, okay? But a rehabber will only pay about 60 or 65% of the value.

Okay?

So if you got $100,000, $200,000 house and it's trash, then the rehabber is going to want to buy it for like 110, right? You have to get it low enough to make the deal work. And then if it's a really super nice, clean, clean, clean, clean house, I'm going to take it into a subject to with it and keep it.

Okay, so let's discuss subject to turn.

It into a rental. I'm going to turn it in, not a rental, I'm going to turn into some monthly cash flow. So I've done like 357 subject to's.

Okay, so define what a subject to is.

So subject to is basically a homeowner is behind or not, some people, they're not even behind and they agree to deed their house to you. They deed their house to me and then I become the new owner. Their name is on the mortgage. I'm the owner. I make an agreement with them in like five years, you know, I'll refinance the house and take their name off of it so they're kind of set free from it and they deed the house to me. And then what I do is I turn around and I find someone like you that says, hey, I'd like to buy a house, but I had good credit. And then I had some credit issues and I want to buy a house, but I can't qualify the bank. But I look at your situation, I look at your credit and I see a lot of good payments. Maybe a health issue. Bank's going to make you wait a million years and punish you. I will sell you that house and give you a mortgage on it and you'll make payments to me. I make payments to the bank and I take it subject to the existing loan and I turn it into long term cash flow.

I love that model.

Subject to are so much fun. So there's a few things on those. Like for example, someone is dealing their house to me. So my first question is always, what about the due on sale clause? But no bank, no bank is going to call the due on sale clause when the mortgage payments are being made again. They don't care where they come from. And I tell the homeowner, listen, you have missed 12 payments. I'm going to make all these payments on time. Every time I make an on time payment, your credit will get better, right? You trust me, for these amount of years your credit will get better. And then you can buy a new house. And this person over here that wants to buy the house but, but doesn't quite be able to go with a bank, but it has a good down payment, they'll give me the down payment, I'll make up the back payments on it, if there are any, they'll make a form payment. So I'm a bank, I'm basically a bank. So I get all the write offs that a bank would get. I tell this new person, listen, you have five years to get your credit straight as a credit repair company. Do this, do this, do this, get your credit straight. Because I got this guy at the other end that doesn't want to be on this loan for the end of time. So I'm the bank, I become the bank. I own the house, I give you a mortgage, an actual mortgage, you file your mortgage and I get all the tax write offs of being a bank. So I don't have repairs and something breaks. I don't want to call me, I'm the bank. So subject to are great.

Subject to are amazing. So is this, now is this what you call pre foreclosure investing? That's the other book, how to sell a house when it's worth less than the mortgage.

Yeah. So when we, when we wrote, when I wrote the first book, we sold a kajillion album. And so the publisher says, hey listen, would you write a book for homeowners but to help homeowners get out from underneath their houses because everybody was so upside down. So in that book I'm like talking to a homeowner. Listen, you could find an investor and do a subject to with them. You could short sell the house and sell to somebody. You could do this and this and gave the homeowners all these options that they have besides just going to the foreclosure. Because you go to the foreclosure, it's on your credit report. If the bank, most people don't know this, if the bank doesn't sell the house for what you owed, if they sell it for less, they come after you for the difference in the money. So you lost your house on foreclosure, you owe 200, the bank sold it for 150. Guess what, you owe the bank 50 grand now and, or you get a 1099. And these people are like, I got a 1099. I lost my house five years ago. Why is the bank coming after me for money? So I kind of. It was. It's a good book. So I gave homeowners like, these are all the things that can happen to you if you just let your house go. So let's don't let those things happen. And basically, I encourage everyone to work with investors.

Okay, fantastic. But if I want to learn more about subject to investing, this is my website.

Yeah, I Talk about Subject 2 that talk about short sales. I talk about wholesaling, I talk about rentals. I've got free ebooks for people. And I do a lot of webinars on subject two. I love subject to.

I'm loving all this. So, Duane, I gotta ask you, what's the worst advice you see or hear given in short sale investing or subject to investing or pre foreclosure investing?

You know, I don't know that it's the worst advice I hear, but I think one of the worst people that start off investing now, I feel kind of sorry for them sometimes because someone can be just a great Internet marketer and make you think they have decades of experience. And you spend, you know, five or $10,000 on some crazy training program and then you find out, you know, you get no callbacks, no one's helping you, the person isn't what they said they were. And so I feel like for the newer people, you really need to find someone like you. Someone has been investing for like 20 years. If they haven't gone through like the 8, 9, 10, and they haven't gone through the COVID they don't need to be giving you advice on how to do stuff and selling you a bunch of, you know, ultra super expensive coaching programs when they're just really good marketers. So I feel like people need to look at the person. So if someone sees me, oh gosh, she's a great marketer. Well, I'm not. I have a good team of marketers. I'm just really smart, so they can. So I think if you want to learn anything of real estate is look at the person that you're looking at investing with and really look and see what they have personally done before you go in and say, hey, I'm going to learn this thing. It's like with you, if you had only done five land deals, I probably wouldn't want to spend, you know, 10 grand on a coaching program. But you've done 6,000. I'm like, I'll pay you 50 grand. I want to hear what you have to say.

Right, Right. Yeah. I love that advice.

Yeah. People need to do a little bit more due diligence because, I mean, you and I both know we see people all the time selling this program, selling that and this, and you know, that person and you know they haven't done five deals. Oh, my God. So I just tell people now it's a good idea to look at a lot of areas. Like land is a good area. Subject to are great. Rentals are great. Storage units are great. Wholesaling is great. Short sales are great. Do a little research, listen to some webinars, listen to some podcasts and find the people that you feel like your moral compass aligns. And if you feel like your moral compass aligns, that's probably a good person for you to work with.

Great advice. It's great advice. Well, Duan, your mentorship, this podcast has been invaluable, but now we're at the point of the podcast where I'm going to put you on the spot one more time and ask you for your tip of the week. A website, a resource, a book, something actual. But before you do that, I have to give a shout out to our sponsor, which is flight school. Learn how the next 16 weeks can literally transform your life. Go up the mountain of land investing quickly, safely, efficiently with Scott Todd, who's done thousands of deals. He'll take you up there so safely and you start building that passive income without renters, rehabs, renovations, or rodents. And oh yeah, that tuition investment for flight school ain't going to cost you nothing. Guaranteed you're going to make it all back 180 days or less. Just show us your work, that you're doing it, that you're executing. So learn more. Go to language.com forward/training the land geek.com training. See if this model is right for you. Duan Ben Twyford, what is your tip of the week?

So it takes a nanosecond to explain. My biggest tip, especially if someone, maybe they're hearing me or you for the first time, is if you are in your head, I would like to be a real estate investor. Do not listen to the naysayers that are in your family, your friends, your brothers, your moms, your dads. They will say, you can't do that get rich quick stuff. Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. And the people that love you the most will talk you out of something that could be life changing for yourself. So I say, don't listen to the naysayers. Don't listen to anyone that makes 15 bucks an hour if they're not millionaires, don't listen to them. And don't let other people get into your head and cloud up what you think you would like to do for yourself. And then just do it. You have to just do it.

I love that advice.

You just have to do it.

I had another guest say, never listen to your parents. And he was being serious because they're just filled with fear and anxiety, and it's coming from a place of love. But it's not good advice, because my.

Dad, I love him, but they were factory workers. Work for the man 40 years and retire. It's like, no.

Yeah. My parents still don't understand what I do. Like, what do you do? How'd you do it?

I told them I bought a bunch of buildings. Like, why would you do that? You're getting ready to retire. I'm like, I am, Bobby. Don't you want to quit? It's like, but it's my business. I built it. I love it. Why would I quit doing this? Like, what else would I do? I love this. So they don't understand why I'm not, like, you know, starting to relax and sell things off and kick back. It's like, dude, I pink hair. I'm not ready to be the old lady in the rocking chair. It's not happening.

Exactly. I'm never going to retire. I love working like. Like deal junkies. We're not going to retire.

No. I love what I do. I'd be 95 years old if I could still get up on a stage. I'll still be teaching.

Absolutely. Same. Yeah, same with me. You know, wheel me up there.

That's right.

Fine. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll still be doing land deals.

Yeah.

So I may do a couple.

Now that I know you, I may like. Hey, give me a little bit of advice over here. It sounds like a fun thing to learn.

No worries. No worries. Well, my tip of the week is learn more about making some real money. Shuffling paper and making that passive income in subject to go to the wonderful.com, i'll have a link to it. And if you check out her site, tons and tons of information. And when you go to the site, you'll see Duane's a big deal. She's been on national media, so tons of information there. Get the books, start learning more. And look, I don't care how you get out of solo economic dependency, whether it's raw land investing, subject to short sales. I just want you to get out of it. Because once your passive income exceeds your fixed expenses, you're working because you want to, not because you have to. Life is just better. And that's really what it's all about. So, Duan, are we good?

Yeah, I'm great. I appreciate you having me on listeners. And my podcast is the most wonderful real estate podcast ever. Tune in, listen to me, and listen to Mark. Get involved, man. We just want you to get involved. Real estate's an amazing thing.

Absolutely. And I want to thank the listeners and remind them the only way, the only way I'm gonna get the quality of guests like dejuan, Ben Twyford. So if you do three little things, follow rate, review the podcast, send us a screenshot of that review. SupportLangic.com I'm gonna send you for free a signed copy of Dirt Rich, so please do it. It really helps. All right. Dwight doesn't know what I'm about to do here, but I always. Here's how I always end it. 1, 2, 3. Let freedom ring Ring.

Yes. Let freedom ring. I love it.

Thanks, everybody.

Thanks for listening to the Art of Passive Income podcast. Are you ready to learn how you can start building a passive income without renters, rehabs, renovations, or rodents? Schedule a free consultation@thelandgeek.com forward slash training. Let freedom ring.